Jacoby Shaddix of Papa Roach (Rerun)

- Endless summer escapes start here. Travel the worlds of Netflix IRL. Inspired by fan favorites like Stranger Things and Squid Game. Brave the upside down. Face off with the front man. Play leveled up arcade games. Shop exclusive merch. And enjoy themed food and drinks. Beat the heat. Play, eat, and shop on repeat at Netflix House at Galleria Dallas. Bring your crew and save. Get your tickets today at netflix.com/house. - Hank joined BJ's Wholesale Club the day he became a father of 30. - I coach football. - Now, Coach Hank saves up to 25% off grocery store prices. 30 pounds of pasta, three cases of protein bars, 75 sports drinks. - And that's just pregame. - He knows teamwork, and BJ's knows savings. This is your home, Coach. Home of the save. Join for just $20 at bjs.com/mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. Limited time offer, new members only. BJ's, home of the save. - Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is Artist Friendly. On this episode, I'll be talking to the lead singer and front man of two-time Grammy-nominated, multi-platinum selling band, Papa Roach. Let's go. ♪ That's my kind ♪ ♪ I don't want no bad times ♪ ♪ I don't wanna have bad ♪ - One of my favorite things that you do, you probably don't even know, like, how many people you probably help with your business. - I'm a big fan of your business. - Yeah. - I'm a big fan of yours. - Yeah. - Yeah. - This thing that you do. - Oh, what is it? - But on Instagram, you make these lists of things you're grateful for. - Yeah. - And I don't know if anyone's told you that. I'm sure some people have. You probably get DMs and stuff like that. But I read those all the time. And I've found it, I've found, like, this simple thing that you may be doing for yourself. - Yeah. - Is, like, actually become this, like, I've probably read however many times you've done it. I've probably read. I don't know. I don't know if it's 50 times or 30 times. - That's sick, right on. - I've probably read 80% of them, you know. I like to think I've probably read every single one of them. - You might have. - But I think gratitude is, like, one of the key ingredients for happiness. - Oh, yeah. It's a, like, that's factual. You know, I've been doing a gratitude list for some years now. Some sober friends of mine back in the day had suggested that I become part of this gratitude list. And so I did that. And it was an email chain going on. Going around for some years. And it's just been part of that habit for me, you know, part of that recovery life. And it is, like you said, man, it is medicine straight up. And, you know, social media can be, like, it can be, like, doom and gloom sometimes, you know. And I just, at one point I was, I saw my friend Clint, a guitar player for Seven Dust. He was doing a gratitude list and he was posting it in his stories. And I was like, you know what, man, I'm just going to take my gratitude public. I'm just going to do it because I've been doing it for years. You know, I was kind of struggling with social media. And how I would engage with social media. Yeah, like what's your version? Yeah, who am I on this platform, right? Yeah, totally, yeah. And, you know, one thing that I've found is, like, gratitude is, it's the medicine. And I see a lot of people out there struggling. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to share this stuff and maybe inspire somebody else to jump on some gratitude. And maybe that's what it is. And so just bring in something positive to the feed, right? And I have gotten a lot of really positive feedback from it, you know, from people and stuff like that. And I know it's not. It's not like click bait worthy, you know, it's like, and sometimes I'm like, I'm in my head. I'm like, oh, man, like, I'm not going to go back and see how many people like this. Like, just be disciplined about this thing and not let it be ego based. Let it be selfless and honest and authentic. And that feels that way, dude. Yeah, it is. And I just get real with it, man. I just I throw the real out there. When I started reading that, it was the first time I felt like I really like I mean, we've we've known each other over the years. For sure. Like, no, no doubt we spent time together, but I actually felt like I knew you. Oh, yeah. It's a deeper look inside. Yeah. You know, I really am like and especially to I share a lot about my family on there. Yeah. You know, it's like high on gratitude, right? It's like, of course, I'm grateful for my family, my wife, my kids, this lovely family we got. And there's lots to be celebrated within that life, you know, and just the successes of of my children, the failures of my children, the failures of myself, the successes of myself. I'm really just kind of like digging in and and refocusing my mindset because I have a tendency to wake up with what I call fear of impending doom. Yeah, it's like such a great way of putting it. Yeah, man. It's like sometimes I'm like and I had to force myself because I was for a while just like first thing I would wake up and I would pick up my phone. Right. And I would just start scrolling and just be in that world. And I'm like, no, this is this is not working out for me. And so it's part of my. You know, get up, get real routine in my life. And, you know, I don't always hit the mark on this thing, but it's like I'm willing to give it a go. I got to throw down. I haven't done a gratitude list in probably about a week and a half, man. It's time to do another one, dude. I'm like, sometimes I'll do them like every day. Yeah. And then sometimes I'll go a week without it. And then I'm like, all right, now my attitude is starting to get a little stanky. You forget, you know, times. Oh, yeah. You forget where the medicine is. How soon we forget. Yeah. Isn't it crazy how quick. We can forget to do something that makes us feel so good when it comes to fear based or anything like I think that like we all probably suffer from, especially artists, we all probably suffer from very similar like afflictions. Oh, yeah. We're not that different. Like our stories, if you line them all up are probably similar stories. Right. So it's that's interesting to me because it's like when you think about especially bands and rock bands and the era of. The era of music that we all come from, it tended to be emotional. There's a lot of anger. There was we were working a lot of shit out that we didn't even know. Absolutely. So we all tend to be like afflicted with the same thing, even though we feel a lot of times like we're alone in it and we're not because if we walk in the room with all these people, if we all actually just shared, everyone would be like, Oh, I feel I wake up with that same feeling every day impending doom. You know it, you know it. And then our anxiety will attach it to any. Given thing in a given week. So this week, my I'm anxious and I'm stressed about this. I won't even remember what I was anxious or stressed about in a year today. Right. Like like whatever I'm stressed about today, a year from now, I'm not even going to remember. I'm I couldn't even try to remember. Yep. That's what I always try to remind myself. But that way, the waking up in the morning, I don't know why the mornings and maybe it's like maybe it was when I was a kid, the mornings weren't great, but like. The morning is the time to do the things that make you feel good. Oh, yeah. Because it tends to be kicks off the day, man. Yeah, off the day. Good. Have a good one. You want a good day? Yeah, that's what I'm going for. You know, I feel you on that, though, man. When you're talking about the the similar affliction or whatnot and the struggle that people deal with and what they walk through, it's real, man. And everybody has their own version of of of their baggage and what they're dealing with. But it's important for me. Me to use the tools that I've been given as an adult, right, to like do this adulting thing and really like change my perspective. And since I've been able to do that, man, it's like I've really had a there's been an upswing just in my existence, my connection with people, my ability to look at, you know, to look at myself in the mirror and be cool with the person looking back at me, you know, because there's there's been some years where that wasn't the case, you know. And yeah, it's good to be good. Sometimes, you know what I mean? It's not always a wreck. And that's like, I'm just so grateful for that, you know. And it's actually I think it makes a lot of sense to me to hear it from you, because if you look at your success in the world, you could almost track. Is there a point at what point do you feel like you figured that out? Because I could see Papa Roach's success. You guys are having the last few years and this year, last year, the last few years. You guys have had I wouldn't even say it's like this wave of the bands and the thing that's that everyone says, all this, all these bands have come back. You guys never have never stopped working your asses off. Yeah, we've been working hard, man. But you could argue that Papa Roach is bigger today than you've ever been and that it's this culture you've built touring and all the things you do. But can you see alignment with that success with your personal growth and your personal success? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Man, I think, you know, when we first came in, it was like nothing could stop us. You know, we were just getting after it. It's like, you remember that era, dude? It was just like, let's go, man. The era of the big record deal. Life is great. You know, put out the record, go do it. We sold millions. It's funny. I was cleaning out stuff from the closet the other day and I found I have this might be the world's smallest triple platinum plaque. It's literally like this big. Yeah, it's three CDs. It's all pink, pink, pink. It's all the best three million, you know. But then in the process of going and becoming successful, I just got I got loose. And reckless, man, I got I got really into drinking and partying. And that was just it ruled my life. And, you know, I think my career and my life reflected that. Obviously, you know, it's like the success of the second album wasn't so big and the genres were changing. And, you know, the stripes and the vines were coming in. It's kind of that era. Yeah. Well, you could say it wasn't as big as that first shot out of the cannon. Oh, yeah. But that's actually if we stopped and we said all things being like nature. Yeah. That's actually. - It's actually a natural, - Yeah. we don't know it at the time we're like why didn't the second album yeah the first album i know and it's almost like we didn't have like a sound mind sometimes sitting with us going no this is actually a process yeah like it's gonna do this and then this and then this if we stay on track yeah but you work hard yep you you play hard yep and then you live harder yep in those moments of like how do i make sense of this and how do i deal with this all this first of all i'm just trying to wrap my head around being someone in the world when i wasn't a year ago yeah and then i'm also trying to wrap my head around what it means to like be able to like live a life that feels like i'm at disneyland so i feel like i hit the lottery yep we know now we didn't hit the lottery we worked our asses off absolutely yeah true true true but it wasn't like some luck we can say oh i feel lucky yeah and we can feel lucky to be lucky to be lucky to be lucky to be lucky to be to our fans and all that but like we worked really hard and we got to give some credit to that and own it a little bit so that we can feel respectable and not like we're just some lottery winner yeah absolutely um because your music's good i mean okay here's a question yeah so before you drop your first record right yeah how many how long were you guys a band before you drop your first record first major label record yeah so the first the first thing we did was like a um was like an indie ep yep like two years after we started we started in 96 okay our first record yeah so you guys put the work it's sweat equity you guys put those years of work in and then it you got that shot but i remember and that and if i had like being a grown-up and and if i had like a kid my age doing the same thing i would give some information to them because i remember feeling like from 96 to 2000 it all felt like a lottery yeah like oh when are we gonna get yeah who's up next yeah our big break yep and big breaks happen if we're describing opportunity that comes to us by going forward and meeting it on the road that could be described as a big break yeah but we had to go down the road and do the work to get to that opportunity so we have to like we have to find the middle ground of saying i feel lucky but i also am going to own that i work hard and then i'm valuable my ideas are valuable so that's the thing i had to learn how to do was go i'm not just a dumb kid that's how i felt yep and that was the work i had to do after making sense of the success of it where i didn't have to do it and i didn't have to do it for a long time just think i thought i felt like oh i just hit the lottery now i better not let this go right so i better hold on to this thing and that's not a good way to live you got to kind of like design the house you want to live in yep so you have to stop sometimes and go is this the right move how do we feel about this but if you're just afraid of losing something you'll say yes to everything yeah and you'll just run run run run you won't enjoy anything because it's fleeting yep i think there's like a middle ground where we have to where reality and and imagination and the surreal world we live in as artists meet yeah and we kind of get rooted in like some reality so in 2000 when the record came out it did feel like magic it did feel like because we were broke too for so long and then you suddenly have some money yeah like i can literally go to the atm and get money and i can go out to eat and i can do things that i never could do so and i was working two jobs at all times and just trying to like make it all work and then through my 20s that was the same thing i feel like you probably had the same experience i worked hard i played hard i was always in fear of losing it and then i started and and i did have my moments where i was living harder and medicating all this confusion like i was it's like you got shot out of a cannon with no parachute and you're just going through the air trying to like yeah you're looking at your friends flying next yeah dude we're gonna be all right dude man this is kind of fun but what do we do Yeah, I feel you, dude. It's a terrifying ride, man. It really was in the beginning. Fun, right? But I totally get what you're saying, where it's like, we have this wild dreamer in us, this like unrealistic, like outside the box dreamer. But then there's this realist that worked the day job and that balance between the two and then having this opportunity to become successful and then became successful. And then where's your toolkit after that? It's like, all right, I'm going to build my wings on the way down, I guess. Here we go. Let's build it. Yeah, man. We didn't have anybody around us, man. We watched some of our friends come up and then become even more successful. And their trajectory was this. And I'm like, oh, well, why did our second record have to flop? And I'm like, dude, we sold almost a million records and it was considered a flop. It's kind of like- And it was a cool record. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Which maybe- Appreciate it. And which, like, you never know. You never know the value of things until later. Yeah. So like, would you go back and change that second record? I don't know if I would. That's an interesting question. Would you go back and change that second record? Because to me, it's part of the Papa Roach legacy. And where you are today, I think is like, how many bands can say that they're standing where you guys are today? Was there something in that record that caused you to be who you are today? And if you could, would you go back and change it? Would you make, if you could wave a wand and say, I want, I'm going to make my second record bigger than my first. Do you, would, like, is there a chance if you did that, that you wouldn't have the life you have today? Yeah. Right. Yeah. You can't, you can't go back and change those things, man. I hear you on that. I like, I don't know, man. It's like, I look back at that period in time and it's just really when like my alcoholism took fully a hold of me. Right. And it was just like, I was just lost and didn't even know it. And so- So it wasn't like I was phoning shit in, you know what I mean? I was never doing that. It was like, I would always get on stage, throw down and do the deal. But it was just like, it just kind of felt like I was floundering a little bit like that. And honestly, can't go back and change the record. Nah, wouldn't do it. No. But maybe some of the lifestyle choices I was choosing at the time. Sure. But I had to take the lumps that I had to take to figure it out. You know what I'm saying? I had to fall down the stairs, bang my head, bang my, break my arm, bust my head, you know, to go, all right, maybe this ain't right. You know, next thing you know, I'm like, let's get sober. Let's try that out. I remember I called my producer, Howard Benson. I'm coming down. We're about to make our third record. And I call him up on the phone. I'm all, what's up, man? Just getting ready to get in the car, dude. Coming down, you know, gonna start this record with you. I'm letting you know, man, like I'm getting sober. Today's my first day. I'm getting sober. I'm getting sober. I'm getting sober. Today's my first day of sobriety. And he's like, you're fucking doing what? He's all, that's what's wrong with all you fucking rock bands now. Getting sober. You want to live longer. And I just was like, I'm fixing to come fucking beat your face in, motherfucker. I'm getting on I-5 now. I'll be there in a few hours. Like, fuck you. You know, he hit my buttons, you know, but then I think that that process with him and I was just like a raw nerve, honestly, like of years of just getting after it to just going, all right, I'm gonna try to get my life together and making that record. It was a, it was a battle. And he really drew, uh, some, I believe some great performances, uh, out of me and the band. And it was a very inspired time. And, you know, that was like, all right, coming off this maybe failed record. And then we're about to release this next one. We got dropped by DreamWorks at that time. Uh, we got shuffled over to, uh, what was it? And, uh, it was an uphill battle over there. It was like, cause we were watching like Nine Inch Nails get dropped. Marilyn Manson get dropped. It was quite a time. Weezer get dropped. Jimmy, we're like all these bands and we're like, okay, I guess maybe we're next. And then we sold like a million and a half records and they're like, no, we're going to keep our hands on you for a little while guys. You know? So it, uh, it, it doesn't always work out the way that I plan, but you know, when I make plans, God laughs. So, you know what I mean? Is there a song on the third record that you feel like you're going to play? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't feel like captures that, that time in your life that you still like feel connected to in a way that feels like special. Absolutely. Uh, the song scars. Oh dude. One of the, one of the greats. Yeah. What a song. Thank you. Uh, that song was, it just was so different and that's the path that I was on in my life. I was like, I am reinventing my life period. And I remember Jerry, Jerry and Tobin sent me the demo for it. And it was, it was, uh, the course was in a major key and I'd never really sang on major key stuff. It was always minor and heavy and dark. And you know, that wasn't my cup of tea. And then I was like, all right, let me give it a shot. You know? And I was feeling inspired at the time. I think at this time the used was out, they just came out and they were fucking killing it. I was a huge fan of those guys. And a lot of their stuff is major key. And I was inspired by that. And I'm like, all right, well, cool. Like, let's just see, like, give it a go, you know? And it was like, just skyscrapers shot out of the speakers. You know what I mean? Like after we cut the vocal, did the song, we were all like, this is so different. I don't know if our fans are going to love it or not. hate it but I this I love this this is we're on to something here and I remember when we turned it into the label Jimmy Iovine at the time he was uh had he was yeah is he still in Interscope at Interscope no not anymore he's at sorry beats apple yeah um all right so he was at Interscope at the time and uh sorry he's on a boat yeah yeah he's on a boat yeah he's out there floating on a Iranian so uh he heard the track and heard the song scars and he was like I don't know man I feel like you guys need to go back into the studio and and recut it and make it make it kind of more in the vein of it vein of it's been a while by stained and I was like I mean that's a great song I love that that's an awesome song but it just doesn't feel like it's in the same lane it's like that's totally acoustic this has got a beat I'm like this is kind of one of our first forays in the music business where the record exec was like nah I don't think you got it right I think you need to go back in and at this point in time in our career I'm like you know I'm willing to play ball because usually I'm like fuck you yeah so we go in the studio we cut what proceeded to be the single-handedly most lackluster average white guy rock drivel that we've ever recorded in our lives it sounded like uh just bad nickelback like like just dime store nickelback it just was bad you know nickelback they're right hits they're great you know what I'm saying but they just said dismiss the mark I remember carrying this thing into the studio or into the label and turning it in and I was just like in my mind I'm just going dude if you like this I have no idea you just ain't got no fucking taste man and turned it in and he was like you know guys I think you're right like on the first version of the song I think that was that's the money right let's go with that and uh we went with it you know but it was one of those that we took the suggestion and uh it didn't it didn't work out right so it's a legacy shit it's a legacy song absolutely it's so cool to hear that to hear you say that that song that you connect to it in that time in your life because it's such a important Papa Roach song oh yeah and a lot of times we'll get like resentment towards our big songs or right fine artists do that sometimes yeah it's almost like a rejection of like people's love in a weird way but like when I hear that it makes me happy because I love that song oh yeah dude thank you man that's like it's it's in our set we don't play a show you have to without playing that song I mean we're like we do some of these festivals in Europe it's like metal festivals yeah and we're like do we want to like pull some of the mellower stuff out and I'm like guys nah we just go up there and just be who we are like that's yeah I'm not I mean yeah we'll throw a couple other heavier songs in there but it's like we got to play the classics man in this just that is definitely one of the classics even so that's a part of the personality of Papa Roach and you guys have earned your your place on that stage on any heavy Festival Rock Festival you could go play any festival thank you and you could go tour with any band you could tour with the heaviest metal band yeah and you could tour with Nickelback yeah and you could tour with good Charlotte like you guys could tour with anyone but you had to earn that ability to do that absolutely never box yourselves into like this is what we are it feels honest yeah and I'm really happy for you guys appreciate it man it's it's a good place to be in honestly right now with the band and what we're doing and and what we're up to you know it's like we've had some interesting highs and some interesting lows right but it's like in the industry that's forever changing and we've watched it these different amalgamations of the music business right when everybody's getting fired and then they were like oh what's the music industry now because everybody's file sharing you know well now it's like the Wild West all right we're gonna start our own label so we got an imprint on uh w on wea and we resurrected our imprint um new noise we signed alien ant farm way back in the day I remember that to uh to a deal on dreamworks and we just resurrected that name because all the filing and paperwork was all done we're like less hassle dude let's just go new noise yeah and so uh we've been running that and it's been through the pandemic like it was the beginning of that phase for us and uh we had been with uh better noise for 10 years at that point we took the temperature in the biz in the music industry and we're like do we want to go sign like a normal deal nope no we know too much now yep exactly we're like you met the wizard too yeah yeah I saw behind the curtain yeah I realized also oh I'm a wizard there's no one there it was me the whole time yeah you know what I'm saying you know what I mean it's wow when you meet the wizard and you realize you were the wizard yeah that's great I love it I love that you met the wizard too but that's the thing I think you learn with age and experience yeah is it's not that I am against the institutional side of the music business at all good partnerships work great absolutely and good teams work great um so I'm not anti any I'm against the thugs yep you know and I'm against the liars yep and I'm against the thieves so preach I want the yep the young people that are coming up and making art yep to understand their the value of them and the power of them and then in partnership in concert with really great people that work hard yep the experience I had was I didn't know if I had a choice yeah I just wanted a success yep as I got older I realized like oh no like people design houses they want to live in we should design lives we want to live in yep we should design careers we want to live in with as much care as we design a house we want to live in yes and I didn't know how to live in a nice house it took me a long time yep to learn how to live in a nice house because I didn't really have nice houses we were always moving and I'm grateful to my wife because she had a a way of going hey slow down which one do you do you like and I'm like I don't know I like them all yep and she's like I get it but which one do you like better yes because better is better yep and we get used to better fast people always get used to better and then they don't want to go back and if we can get yeah if we can make our lives better our careers better we won't want to go back to worse yep and better is better for everyone like if I'm thriving our relationship is going to be better yep if you're thriving my relationship with you and your relationship with the world it's going to be better and then you're going to have this positive effect the gratitude list yep uh the music the the wisdom you share when you talk to artists in your day-to-day we've had conversations you're out there you're you're you're you're meeting the bands that are opening for you guys or you're at festivals with bands that listen to you they're coming up yep influenced by you guys and you're sharing experience and things that like they're going to take and use and it's actually going to make their life better we can kind of dismiss it as like this is what we do yeah but actually like it's therapy and not everybody can can go to therapy not everybody has the resources or the or the know-how or the ability to find someone that they click with because that's also a personal relationship but like we can actually give people versus take from people when we talk to them and why waste any conversation that's what I always say like how this whole show started was like I was having these conversations all the time in the studio or at the at shows or on the street I wanted people to be able to listen to them because out there right now there's someone that's feeling a certain way yep they're trying to make it in life in any which way and they need to hear that people like them yep made it out of whatever situation and so you know um you know uh drugs and alcohol are something I I grew up around my whole life so I have a very in-tune understanding in-depth understanding of the ex of the uh of the experience and uh it I know it all too well so the struggle of someone to choose sobriety over addiction yeah and the disease um and the affliction um is a really long road sometimes we both know people that did not win that fight yeah unfortunately and whether it was death or jail or just Insanity and when you watch that happen you can become desensitized to it sometimes but if we can help someone on on their on their path towards a sober life and that could be sobriety in lots of forms yep it's not just alcohol or drugs um it's like a life of sanity and not insanity and I have to remind myself that sometimes because every now and then I'll meet a kid who I know hasn't arrived there yet right and I'm like man I want to run away because I don't want to live through this again yeah but then you kind of like oh what no this is this is you know I'm gonna be a positive influence in this person's life and as long as they want to get that yep I'll always be there like in that way I'm not gonna participate in sickness but you know I love that about you man I think that's dope dude I think that that carrying that spirit out there in this world of going a young grasshopper let me show you the way like that's what's up man like that uh it's important to to be there for each other i think that message is it survives the ages you know what i mean it's like looking out for your people it's important looking out for our neighbor it's important you know and i've experienced that in my life right where somebody else has been like hey man let me show you the way like this ain't it yep you know and that's been that's been an interesting experience for me because part of me inside is like fighting it right i don't i don't like i don't want to change i don't want to grow comfortable in this like insanity in this crazy place right yeah but it's like you suffer long enough you realize like all right cool i gotta let go and when i did the work and let go of some of that stuff and allowed um my higher power to work in my life and and flow through me um there be there was magic there right when this fella was walking through this madness with me kobe this is we're gonna get you out of this we're gonna we're gonna walk you're gonna become a better man a better human a better friend a better husband a better musician you know and that's like i've had a few men in my life uh assume that role and i am just forever grateful to those people you know and uh i have a tendency to uh sometimes shut down and isolate uh after tours yeah you know i just got done with a long tour came home and i'm just like man i just don't know if i have it i'm just kind of i'm i'm done you know and and sometimes just knowing that when to go all right i just kind of got to go dark for a little while you gotta just reboot yeah you know what i mean and so i think that that uh wisdom as you're speaking of it's like slowly i'm starting to grasp pieces of those over the last like 10 years and it's put me in a place where i'm like okay cool i feel all right yeah it is kind of experience though that teaches you like this moment doesn't define the whole once i learned myself and i and i and i actually allowed myself to be like the idiosyncratic person that i am and i didn't fight it and i didn't go oh you're just a piece of shit because you feel that way or i was good no this is just a moment i gotta just be in this moment and like and and see what's up yeah and and then also that this moment doesn't define the whole of the time thank god right yeah and and my and this mistake doesn't define me as a whole or or this or and this win right so on both sides of the picture yeah right right because if if the wind defines me unsustainable to think that i'm going to replicate whichever win it is at that moment again and again and again so that's an unsustainable version of me dude i've seen people do that man and it's like how you you know guys like floyd mayweather right this run and they're on this run and it's like eventually you're going to see them fall i want to know that's why i like talking to people yeah because there's guys who can just hit the baseball yep and they just hit it really well yeah right and then i wonder like do you do everything in your life that well because if they do that's great um but i always wonder like and then i also have to go back to me and go like well that's just i am just what i am yep and like what if i'm what if i learned to just kind of feel that i'm good enough right here as i sit and then i'll have my wins and we can celebrate them yeah but then i also have to like go home and wash the dishes and participate in you wash dishes yeah yeah take the trash out that's right drive the kids to the thing and like participate on both sides of that and like find the balance of like i want to win just like everyone else i want to win as much as possible yes i want to win like nacho libre wants to i want to win yes i want to win all the time yep i i wake up every day excited to work on the things i'm working on and then i got to find that balance of like but i also have to do real life as well and then i don't and if i come to terms with like actually what makes me valuable and special is who i am really in the world not who i am over here when i win in the world perceives me to be something yeah right and it's great to stand on a you know hold a trophy up right yeah that's a great feeling and then i feel like it's a great feeling no doubt we should celebrate that but then we should also i think the gratitude list find the gratitude that we get to like participate in real life as well yep and i think that was the journey for me was figuring out how to like be at peace with the wins and the losses and as i perceive them oh yeah in the music because it i think we're competitive guys oh fuck yeah i'm i'm wanting to play football wanting to play baseball ended up in music and and treated it sometimes like it's a sport like i just go for it i got an idea i'm gonna go for it yep um learning how to embrace the competitiveness and enjoy it versus feel tortured that like yeah um and then also like be in my real life every day and and and actually be able to feel it and live it and learn how to live a real life because also when you tour yeah you get into this like bubble of like it's like peter pan there's no real life you're not really accountable for anything yeah um there's people that do stuff because you have like tour managers and yeah you're back here's your laundry uh what do you want to have for dinner tonight all right we'll get that okay yeah because you're out there and you're working a schedule and so everything is laid out in a timeline and you you don't have to think about where you're going or how you're getting there because you're on this groundhog's day every day and then you come into real life and sometimes you just feel like what do i do yeah i'm in that transition right now again i was you know yeah it does man it's coming off the road it's been like a two-year run for us and uh i was trying to mentally prepare before i came off the road yeah smart um my friend uh chad gray singer from mudvayne he came out to our show in vegas and i saw him after the show and he just kind of was a little choked up man i was like what's up dude you you good man and he's like yeah dude i'm just like i miss it and i'm like what do you mean he's like i just i miss the stage dude it's like i just i see because he had been out there touring and forever he had come home for a while and he had been and i was like yeah man maybe there's like a hobby or something you can and as i'm having this conversation all that's happening as i'm going oh fuck i'm about to be off tour what the hell is my hobby i'm giving this dude advice what the fuck are you gonna do you know what i mean do you have a hobby yeah no i'm trying to figure it out my my kids uh being dad you know hobby it's just my lifestyle as far as hobbies go i mean i don't i don't have one i mean skiing i like to go ski that's cool um maybe maybe all the time art yeah i can't ski all the time and plus it's like dangerous i gotta like my body is my instrument you know and i don't want to break myself but i got to be able to enjoy myself too you know but i'm just in that like transitional i'm about to be off the road for some months maybe a year and i've been touring for fucking ever as long as i can remember right yes it's how do i maintain this this life without driving the people around me fucking mad when i'm off the road yeah right and so i don't know we're gonna do some writing you know we're gonna get creative uh you know over this year and i'll find ways to occupy my time maybe i'll become a barista or some shit i don't know yeah i started i'll be out roasting them beans it's not a bad hobby you know again one that you can only really do a couple times a day though uh it and it's short lived it's about five to ten minutes true true true true um i started playing fortnite with my kid you want that you want that fortnite grind huh oh shit i gotta say it it's a good you're like committed i'm not a gamer neither am i but i really enjoy like play i like i like playing when he'll play with me sometimes he's really good so how old's your little guy he's 14. oh dude you teenager yeah he's not right there we go he's not a little yeah i made it too he plays baseball and that's cool i get to go watch him you know play baseball and all right that's what's up and you travel ball doing travel ball and stuff like that yeah i did all that with my boys not baseball though that's a good and my daughter dances which is a good way to spend spend time yes go drive her to dance or watch her you know her competitions hobbies are definitely important but like i do find it's very hard for me to find something that captures my attention yes long enough yes where i don't turn it into like some kind of game that i'm playing and then it becomes like an expensive competitive yeah and then it's like yeah all of a sudden it's the same thing as what you're doing in your career yeah i know dude it's that competitive nature in us man that just drives us i want to compete at the highest level yep that's right dude that's fucking right you know what i mean yes sir i don't want to just that's like think about this right we started this thing in 93 i started we started papa roach in 93 i've been doing it since i was a little kid wow i had to have some fucking insane drive man to still be passionate about it right over 30 years yes by the way you look like you're 25 thank you i'll go with that i'm not 25 my back does not feel 25 feels like 25 25 year olds are standing on it i get it you know what i'm saying yeah it's all good though appreciate it survive 30 years of this insanity that it is sometimes and to be able to go out there and you know of course we all had the experience when we first got into the theme park oh yeah we just ran around and ate everything and rode every ride but then you kind of start to go like oh no i'm i'm at this is actually where i live it's not a theme park yep it's where i live yes and and i'm i'm a part of the theme park i'm a part of it so everywhere you are any night of tour is someone's big friday night whether it's tuesday night in oklahoma or thursday night in jacksonville it's their friday night that's their friday night we're going to pop a roach and we're going to so there's a an element of atmosphere you have to create for everyone there that's there they're there to forget about things oh yeah to it it's a moment where life is better fuck yeah right that's music absolutely we're healing we're getting relief yep we're getting all these things we need that's what music provides and you're the provider and so my brother yeah so you're no so you can't actually be in the theme park right the ride too yeah you have to like provide the healing and the and the joy and all the good things to sustain that over a long period of time and keep your sanity and your life is a feat yeah um i've done lost my mind about 15 times over you know i'm saying through this journey it's like where was it where was i i'm like okay reboot let's fucking start again start fresh you know and i think that allowing myself to fail yeah right and like being bold enough to get out there in this business and to be able to do it right and to be able to do it right and to be able to get out there in this business and put out another record and go all right we're gonna throw it out the wall let's see if it sticks is this thing over is oh no it's stuck oh snap you know it's like tomorrow night i'm like got invited to a billboards number one party why because i had like two number ones last year right this year and i'm like what like but that to me so my theory huh yeah so my i'm doing this yeah so my theory though it's not throwing it against the wall and seeing if it on top on top you've built layers you have so many layers think about this to destroy what you've built yeah would take as much effort at least oh i see motherfuckers destroying their career in a heartbeat yeah but what's behind that heartbeat yeah is a is a few years of really really like of of time and energy and effort put into that lifestyle and so from the outside i watch you as someone who's known you over the years and and i feel happy because we also know the stories of people who didn't figure it out yeah and we and none of us are happy about that because we all were there yep so when you see another guy make it you know what he was up against yep inside outside you know what he was up against swimming against a tidal wave yeah and and no one understands that except for the guys that were there so on the outside it looks like oh that must be the coolest job in the world it is oh yeah there's this one hour a night where it's the coolest job in the world and then you're alone with your thoughts the rest of the day and um and and then you're also like up against a world that's ever-changing that's cruel uh that's that could be cynical and on the other side of that it's a world full of people who support you love you that's why we all care about the fans because we know they gave us our livelihood that we know they give us our opportunity to go out and do that and we respect that that's like sacred ground yep but then there's the rest of the world yep right the the looky loose they want to stop by and just take a look oh oh look he's failing i gotta tell i gotta tell you something real quick yeah uh it just brought it to mind uh my friend brent from shine down he's a great front man great vocalist i remember we just did this room with them and he said something to the crowd he's like something to the effect of like you know we're in this band and the only boss of us is you yep you the fan you are our boss it's a and i was like damn dude you kind of like nailed it break it down fool like right there i like that i feel that you know it's like serve the people man give the people what they want you know you see why shine down has the career they have yeah they're those dudes are crushing it man we just did shoot like seven weeks with them such an amazing tour packing out arenas selling out arenas uh last show denver uh we played uh what was it uh ball arena where i think the hockey team there plays the avalanche and uh i just had such a great tour a great time on that tour and i remember this was the last show and i played and got off stage and i just ugly cried like i'm like can't hold it in my wife's like are you okay i'm like oh man i'm just i'm gonna miss this like it just all kind of set set in real you know in that moment out there on the road and you know to circle back to that statement i was saying about chad you know it's like i just kind of was like oh shit here comes life like it's the all of a sudden it's more i'm waking up again it's morning fear of impending doom how am i gonna do this the dream is over now yeah you gotta figure it out dude pull up your big boy pants dude the honeydew list is long get to work you're doing it oh man i'm telling you i got yeah i have blisters they have finally healed you know i'm saying because you know i like to work with a shovel out in the yard you know yeah endless summer escapes start here travel the worlds of netflix irl inspired by fan favorites like stranger things and squid game brave the upside down face off with the front man play leveled up arcade games shop exclusive merch and enjoy themed food and drinks beat the heat play eat and shop on repeat at netflix house at galleria dallas bring your crew and save get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house i feel that about you yeah like he probably does yeah i do dude i got the i i got the special overalls for it i got my yard work outfit i got my thorough goods dude i got my shovel i got some new gloves yeah so i don't get the blister anymore yeah man i like to do some yard work do you live in sacramento still cool yep stayed norcal man just it's it's home i've considered moving a million times over and uh our village is tight man my folks are dope my brother he's got three kids my wife her family lives there it's like everybody's there so like when we roll out to like one of the kids games right like my older son jagger when he was playing varsity football there'd be 30 of us just rolling deep we're bringing the cowbells screaming hooting and hollering for our boy on the football field like so it's tough to trade that in yeah you know that's that's the stuff that i'm just like that's the real shit yep so i stayed yeah norcal man that's your neighbor up there dude was six hours up there yeah a little quick flight dude hour banger i'm good puddle jump that's great yeah is uh jagger still playing so uh i actually uh just visited him jagger he's on his freshman year at a college in nebraska called hastings college you got recruited he's playing running back amazing oh yeah that's awesome man and uh he had he had some playing time this year which was great you know for a freshman you know usually their red shirt so he got on the field and and got some touch and uh this last game dude it was like the last game of the year and he was like oh my god i'm gonna play this game season got in he had this run it was a 60 yard run and he's he's running and he's he checks his rear views he's called check my reviews so he looks to the left and right when he looks to the left and he keeps running and right when he's gonna look to check his right rear view mirror this dude just hawked him dude punched the ball out dude fumble he comes off the field he's like fuck and i'm like it was so sick but you know sometimes like i say you gotta take them lumps right like that was one of those lumps that he had to take where he's like all right cool check both rear views make sure you're on it you know and uh that kid's thriving though i'm really proud of him man because he was uh during covid wasn't doing well it was tough during covid yeah it was it was a real hard time on on on him in particular just because he just is such a he he's so outgoing and social he's he has a lot of we have very similar personalities and uh i think just isolating him was rough so to play sport and get back to who he is yeah i mean i will say this one thing though is as the pandemic had us locked up that kid wrote so much music oh that's cool yeah he's he's found music man that's been something for him that's been really therapeutic he's a he's a lyricist he's a mc he writes raps and he's fucking good like the kid's dope he's like what am what am i gonna like have my shot i'm like just keep being keep living your dream yeah and keep sharpening your craft dude like he's in the right find it yeah he's in the right family yeah he is he's got the opportunity when it's time yeah but you know that like what you probably learned and the wisdom that you have from your career is you know when it's time yep because when you're once you step out into this yes you can't go back exactly you can't turn it off yep and who are you when you first come into the business right that's what people grab they grab onto that and it's like what's the first version of i thought i was ready for a record deal way before i had a record deal you know what i mean i was like what do you mean fucking i'm at the school talent show dude like i don't have the record deal yet yeah unrealistic that's fine but it's uh it's interesting to be a father of a son that wants to be a musician because part of me just wants to fucking just be like no yeah fuck this there's there's more landmines than there are pots of gold it is it's a rugged one and we'll see where how that plays out in his life you know what i mean i mean whether it is his path or whether it isn't i don't know but i do know that the kid's talented and is and is passionate about it do your kids have any interest towards music at all yeah my son my son also it's funny uh covid i think was a part of this right but um so he's like your son he's he he likes to get physical play sports yeah he plays baseball he boxes he does things that are that are it's cool and if he's if he doesn't get to do that for a long enough period he'll get he'll get down he'll get depressed yep you know and um and then but he got into making music and producing uh making beats and stuff it's very good um same mentality though i tell and my daughter is a dancer and she performs and and both of them are whenever i say like uh when you know when it's time to go pro we'll know yep and right now just have fun yeah and hone your craft yeah keep doing shit you like yep and keep getting good get good at it in ways that make you feel good about yourself and keep trying to be better beat your own score right because i've said to both of them once you step out there and you go public yep you can't go back and when you when a company goes public they're owned by a bunch of shareholders yep and once that happens you're beholding to those shareholders yep and so you have to be you have to acknowledge that and so it's better to stay private until you're really ready and so they hear me and they also go like they also like don't necessarily want to hear that they're like it's it no you're the man yeah i can't listen to the man why are you getting all serious yeah yeah don't be serious about this yeah like why are you being so like you always turn everything into a job and i'm like well i i'm super analytical yeah about things and sunday you're gonna have a job yeah and i when i was your age i had two jobs so uh i always say that and that's right um but i think they both have talent and if they wanted to they could that's cool so it's going to be amazing and i'm going to be amazing and i'm going to be amazing and i'm going to be amazing and i'm going to be amazing yeah and there's some really great parts of that life because when you make stuff and people acknowledge it it feels great oh yeah dude you know i'm telling you man that feeling right like when you're playing a homie like one of the new tracks yeah and it's like you just it's like you're just trembling you know and excited and nervous and anxious and like what do you think yeah it's like and and like when you play a show and people are singing your song there's no feeling like it in the world you know on the other hand i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm on the flip of that is when you put something out you care about and people dismiss it or they don't yeah they don't care about it or they or worse they they they talk shit about it it can be heartbreaking so the rejection you feel is oftentimes more rejection than than acceptance yeah as an artist that's the life of an artist and i would say that's the life of anyone that is blazing their own path like an entrepreneur or a painter like rejection is just part of the absolutely experience we got to be good at failing you know i'm saying like i have just i am sarah failing bro all day dude well bam well bam well bam i'm like i got that really good get back upper that's it and i think that's the math is the guys who can get up again and again and again and again oh yeah are the guys that stick around and and you're you know a good testament to that you could go back and if you did the math and you were like how many bands and how many people yeah didn't get back up i know and so at some point like that's why i i think it's interesting because as old as you guys may feel and experience you're still a young band oh dude i'm telling you this like when we see the young cats coming onto the scene and taking the stage and releasing videos releasing music i'm like that's i like that it gets me inspired i see the dudes and you know caleb from bear too that the dudes and bring me bringing it and it's like all right what you got kid like are you the real deal you know falling in reverse ronnie rack you took him on tour it's like all right it's motherfucker the real deal and then they back it up and i'm like all right well let let papa show you how it's done now son let's go like it feels good i got that it feels good to be around that energy and oh yeah and then before you know it you know falling reverse playing arenas bring these playing arenas bear to it's dope man you see the the growth and i feel happy because when i see another success story and you know what those guys are up against you know the the personal demons we all have to fight against because most of us come up with a big bag of issues that we have to work through oh yeah and and that's also why i like having these conversations because um we don't back in the day it wasn't really like you could talk about how you feel yeah it wasn't this was a normal i was even like fuck that stop complaining yeah totally and then i started to realize it's not yeah so that you can be a healthier person yeah and isn't it a good thing to put good things into the world oh yeah and especially i think we live in a world where we we think there's more bad than good because of what we see on social media and the news but that's just programming yes we're programming things that get people to click and watch yeah i think there's more good absolutely there's so much great in this world man it's like you just got to get out there and do it there and go see it go get it get outside your door walk outside your front door and go see it insert yourself into environments that you're not necessarily comfortable with all the time but it's like all right let me go see what the world is outside of my thought bubble or not even your thought bubble like the program right yeah oh wow you just nailed it with that i mean that's that's some real shit it's just programming i've spent a lot of a lot of my time over the last few years deprogramming honestly yeah like it feels like i'm that's my process essentially is uh there's a snap case record called progressions through unlearning yeah and that title in itself is so true in my life it's like these things these habits that i gained and some of them good a lot of them bad it's like how do i progress well i gotta i gotta carve that out i gotta etch that out i gotta ditch that i gotta dice that up i gotta keep this part cool you know what i mean and i think that that process is uh it's something that that's that's the reason why i'm still here doing this is because i got i have the desire to do to evolve to change to thrive to inspire to be inspired all those things you know and uh i'm not done living you know i think for a while i kind of got a little complacent for a minute i felt creatively and i had to shake things up with the band and uh i'm grateful we did burnout is a real thing too oh absolutely you know what's trippy though man is because it's like i physically have been burnt out from tour but creatively it's like there's this thing in me that i i know when i get into the studio with my boys it's about to fucking go off yeah i'm excited about that experience um where i stand right now yeah because i know creative burnout i know physical burnout i know emotional burnout i know spiritual bottom dude i know all that right and it's like to be in a space where it's like all right i'm shutting the door on that but i'm inspired to move on that's that's a fucking exciting that's a that's a cool place to be you know we're about to uh beginning of next month we're going to come down we're going to do like a week's worth worth of writing with the band and so we're going to start doing like little time capsules all right we should get together for a week right see what happens get together for a week right see what happens and uh i don't know man i just got i got a lot of things still to say i think as an artist and especially right now we have a current single that we're working right now we just dropped this track uh leave a light on yep and uh i was so passionate about this track it almost got overlooked on the record as far as really being released as a single and uh we went on the shinedown tour and we started playing it and people were just feeling it and i'm like all right is that connected to suicide prevention yes yeah yeah i was gonna ask you about that yeah man so we started uh we started working with the afsp yep and uh right now suicide attempts are at an all-time high crazy it's it's terrific as we speak about all these great things happening in the you know there are so many great things right but there's so many people struggling too and uh it feels like a dark time and so when i say the the even the programming of it all is it can it can get us all down so it when you say that to me as sad as it is i'm not surprised yeah because there's so much darkness being shown across all mediums just like how bad the world is yep um it's crazy to hear that but then when i think about it i'm like it actually it makes sense i mean really what it is though man is it's like it's it's it's a hand reaching into the dark and grabbing onto somebody that's willing to fight for themselves you know and that's i was just telling the crowds every night i said hey we all stand here as a testament of people willing to get up and fight the good fight fight for ourselves fight for the people around us that we love you know and and that's what this is about and that's what the fsp does you know they're just like picking up that phone going hey let's let's let's talk through this let's let's work this out and a lot of people don't necessarily know that there's help out there you know and it's like sometimes we just got to get our bell rung and go hey yo there's some help we've gotten some some dms from people where it's like i mean there was one dm where you this dude was like i was going to take my life tonight after like i was coming to see this show this and I did not, and I will not, going to get help thank you and it's like just that one dm right worth the whole thing i look at that and go i never really realized that i guess the the real true power of music until you hear stories like that where people are like yo this is you this music saved me and i i don't know if you had this experience not that i would slough it off as passe like oh thanks not oh thanks but like right on man that's cool but then when i really get down to it and think about it i'm like holy fuck like are they really actually they really meant saved my life yeah what don't take that lightly cobe you know what i mean and like well i don't think it's taking i don't think you were taking it lightly i think that there's a humility you have right that you take a complex and you're like oh my god i'm not gonna do that again i'm not gonna do that again i'm not in stride yeah you know i do that where you yeah where you go oh thanks you know but you're not actually feeling or owning like the the depth of uh or the gravity of of what your song meant to someone because you guys have a bunch of songs yeah that um i need help yeah help me yeah help me help me and you're just sharing your own experience but this is the power of it right yeah is you're a success story so if i'm if i'm a if i'm someone in some place this moment in my life if i'm some someone in a place where i have no one no one in the world is making me feel valuable um i don't have any companionship and i haven't discovered my talent yet and i don't know and i don't feel like i have any potential right and maybe i've even started to make choices in line with that so i've made the hole bigger for myself yeah right and there's no grace around me right and then i see someone that said man i i wrote this song because i felt like a worthless piece of shit and i felt like i didn't know what to do and i i i wanted life to be over and this was i i kind of just fought for it in this song i wrote these lyrics or i felt this way and um and you share like an honesty about because it's also hard when we get into interviews and it feels like the person interviewing us has a knife behind their back they're holding yeah totally just waiting for us to say something embarrassing yeah so then that will be the headline yeah and then it'll follow us around the rest of our career i've experienced it can be hard to share yeah and be vulnerable yeah but when we but when we buck against that and we do get to share and then there's someone out there that we don't even know we've never met them we don't even know they're listening and they hold on to that and they listen to the song and then they come to the show and then they leave the show feeling better and the next day they get up and they're for for that one day they're looking for the the positive in life since we do get what we look for in life yes absolutely yes right we get if we if we go through the forest looking for bears we'll find them yep we go looking for berries we'll find them isn't that trippy like it's like look for red cars we'll see red cars yep right so the the symbol of your band becomes a positive thing and then every time they put that record on it's a vibration they get on yeah they're strengthening they start to head in a positive direction you don't think about that when they say hey your band saved me you're just like oh thanks i appreciate that because i'm still working on my own self-esteem yeah so i can't even take that in i i can't even take it in when someone says like oh that uh you know good charlotte it saved my life and i'm like oh thanks and i go ah we didn't save their life they they saved their own life now that's true they did have to make the decision to get up but the music was the symbol to them yep it's the bat symbol right it stands for something it stands for something that's going on and it's going to be something bigger and aspirational like you like i was just like you and i and i fought and i worked and i kept showing up and i kept getting back up and i figured it out enough and then now at this age i can kind of articulate it a little better and i can say like oh no i was someone you would have bet against when i was 16 and i started good charlotte you would have said no chance in hell look at where they're from look at look at yeah those those poor kids they have no shot in this world yeah and and then when we made it you would have still bet against us you said this industry is gonna eat them alive yeah right or they don't have the talent and it might have all been true but we kept fighting yeah fighting and now here we are as you know fathers and we don't have it all figured out but like we can get up every day and at least show up absolutely and keep trying that's what i said and then you have these people that love you back and they get older and they get older like the kids it's so funny because they're little and they just love you they don't ask you to change no they don't ask you to be so indifferent they literally just love you yep and then pretty awesome it's pretty sick that's the best shit ever i always say that like like the biggest lesson one of the biggest lessons my kids taught me was they are the only people that never asked me to change or be so indifferent and we walk around and we want everyone to be different you don't believe the kids they never ask us to be different yep they just show up and they're like they're like i love you dad you're awesome dad and then they get older and they and they and they still do that yep but we've made it far enough to go to these these these kids out here or it's usually young people um that are struggling with like making sense of life uh to go nah dude i know it right now feels like the darkest moment and no one cares but someone does care and we do that's why we make music it's not the money i mean it's fun to be on stage but even if you didn't have that you'd still write these songs because you're you you're bleeding it out absolutely man it's it's just for me it's a way to just make sense of the of the madness yeah you know and i think all of us everybody out there is trying to find a way to like untangle the fucking ball of yarn that they got yeah and i'm just yeah i'm just great stoked i got music to be able to do that with because i think about my life if i didn't have this yeah how would i how would i be doing that it would be tough uh maybe sport of some way or i don't know slam poetry fuck i don't know that's still kind of music uh i don't know thank god i got a band dude we are you wouldn't want to see me do slam poetry yeah and and the people we share it with that need it the most are the are what make the music matter the most and i and i feel like i kind of i started saying this a while ago because it like really like like clicked in my brain like 10 or 11 years ago when someone said that to me oh man your music changed my life right something like that one of those and i and it clicked one day when i was like oh man thank you for making the music matter yeah didn't matter before you showed up you know right and because of that you you made me matter because i didn't feel like i mattered now i realize i feel like i matter for a different reason now to my family and to my community and people i love um but it was the music that got me here okay here's a question yeah what was that but what was that music when you were younger what was that band to you rancid all right there we go they made me feel like they were badass they're still badass and they made me feel like i could do anything the way they dress the way the way they carried themselves i just felt like powerful yeah you know when you're a kid and you're you know me and benji i remember feeling like always i just felt like in danger i always felt like like i couldn't protect myself right i was little and i right i didn't have a lot of strength i wasn't like a big guy and um and our dad was gone and it was it was a rough time and i remember listening to rancid just feeling like like no one could fuck with me and i remember that was one of the biggest fears i had was i went out into the world and in any different scenario and i always felt like anyone could fuck with me right and it was a tough place and it was kind of like people so rancid was one uh a lot of rap i listen to a lot of rap okay cool all right loved um cash money and no limit okay and um i liked bone thugs in harmony oh i fuck with bone thugs back in the day dude i liked easy e oh yeah uh i loved tupac yeah um lots of lots of rap um and lots of of uh of punk and then a lot of radio like we we started a lot of radio and then we started a lot of punk and then a lot of on the radio so like a lot of rock yep so like i loved allison chains loved you guys thank you man when when your first single came out and it was everywhere on rock radio yeah like on alternative radio and it went to the moon but yeah that's it but for the kids that were listening to the alt rock stations you know it was like green day and all this alternative um and and uh that 90s think about this there'll never be another time like the 90s when that rock there was it was it was such good rock and roll or rock music yes and you guys were there for it it was a good time man um it was a good time there was a lot of doors you guys opened bringing that heavier angrier oh yeah um rock to to the masses that a lot of bands we're on trl you're on trl you know what i mean spaces because of all the bands from the 90s yeah man 90s was a that was a great time i remember going seeing like rage against the machine it was was dude i saw a rage against the machine at the 9 30 club what yeah oh that would have blew my mind that was sick 9 30 club is just that's an iconic spot do you remember the hf festival yes yes that was our hometown yep so they always had all the bands play the hf festival was like the biggest festival of the year for rock alice in chains did they do it at rfk stadium yeah rfk stadium it was always like 70 000 we played that one we played one of those yeah yeah i saw you guys okay cool yeah i'll tell you a story about that show so it was at the time it was on our album getting away with murder and it was uh we were trying to figure out whether we're going to release scars or getting away with murder as the first single right and i just was apprehensive about scars i'm like man i don't know it's like i just feel like it's not the first single i want to come up with something a little more bombastic yeah so i was like talking to brenda romano and gary spivak those were our two record label reps there they work for the radio department at the label and i was like hey i'm all i guarantee i fucking guarantee you i'm gonna get this crowd to sing along with getting away with murder dude just watch this shit out that's if i get these motherfuckers singing to getting away with murder sing along by the end of the song dude it's got to be the single come on you know i'm like just my please right to the to the label and we get up there and rfk right never played the song live before it's never been heard before on the radio sing that song at last audience i'll give it to the crowd and they're like getting away with murder murder and i'm just like i look back i'm like it could be the single right it was the single that's dope yeah i was at at rfk i was there yeah that's that's cool probably singing along let's go dude yes because those shows were wild oh dude insane they were it wasn't like not to say the festivals now don't have mosh pits because the heavy rock festivals do but like now it's like a festival culture where it's more like a coachella or a la la palooza where like it's a broader audience that's coming that and they kind of listen to everything yeah but that festival was like let's fucking rock we love punk we love rock we love metal and and and at that time in the 90s music was a lot more classified oh yeah so you listen to this kind and you go to these shows yeah and and um it was quite a time and that those shows were wild and i and and that those were some of the shows that made us want to be in the band and that was it that was the time for me man i was gonna see deftones at cattle club amazing you know small small club here in sacramento or not here in sacramento but back home in sacramento and i just remember seeing those dudes on stage chino and the boys oh my god for it i'm just like this is what i want i want to do this this is this is it i see it goats yeah totally i think chino might come on the oh really this show yeah dope he's cool he's a good dude i've never really gotten to hang out with him i haven't gotten to he's a real one i met him once or twice but i never never gotten to hang out with him and i'm a huge deftones fan obviously like that that uh that new one he dropped with for crosses sick invisible hand i think invisible hands or something it's dope dude i heard that i was like all right i texted missed liam all nailed it with this one bro like score he's one of the goats yeah i mean he's an og uh i'd make an argument uh that you guys deftones when i think about bands that i would go to today and see right in the 90s it was just wild and fun yeah yeah holy shit i've never seen this before yep and then you go through this time in the you know the mid 2000s where like edm really popped off and streaming started and it was almost like everyone was like rock is dead yeah people were starting that off yeah and i never thought it was but i didn't know what would be the end of it i didn't know what would be the end of it i didn't know what would be the end of it i didn't know what would be the end of it i didn't know what would be the end of it become of it yeah and then it it's it's not that it's come back around because the bands were still touring and the shows were still good yeah it was just the mainstream consciousness of like what we're consuming as a mass group of people it was like they'd forgotten that the best you know the best live shows are a great rock show there's really hard to to replicate that it's a wild thing it's a wildfire it's a it's a feel man and papa roach deftones uh incubus um i saw limp biscuit uh i want to say like two years ago and it was i've seen limp biscuit before it was the best limp biscuit show i've ever seen and i was like how are you doing this they're ripping it right now yeah they're they're really ripping it and it's like oh these bands get better over time and they're and you're all still young yeah so it's not like the i love the rolling stones but everyone's like i'm more amazed that the rolling stones are still doing it yeah and the show's great i mean it's fantastic um but that energy is like it's it's it's prime time right now oh yeah for people to go and experience like a papa roach show i'll tell you this um we've experienced our biggest most successful touring over the last two years i know that and you know it's like i i'm blown away this last european tour we played uh uh this festival called hell fest yep and it was i gotta tell you man one of my favorite live experience live performances i've ever had in my life like i walked off that stage and i was like whatever that was holy fuck i want more of that what you know and like it's trippy because uh the live performance it just went it was like went viral it started people were sharing it it was like in a week it got almost a million views i have a live show yeah and we're like all right that's dope so yo go check that shit out papa roach hell fest is dope i have a theory it's a good one i have a theory tell me so if i put two cars in front of you yep a brand new mercedes s550 cut right fast car beautiful car really nice expensive or a 66 chevelle in perfect condition fucking chevelle bro right modified in some ways but kept in perfect condition so i have this theory because i say it about good charlotte all the time it's this we've kept the car in mint condition yeah and we've put some we've modified it a little bit but it's still the same car and i think that's where we're at i think people see the chevelle yep and they go god damn that's a pretty car i gotta go get on that's dope it sounds loud it sounds mean yep and so even people that may may not like be lifelong good charlotte fans yep when they're at the good charlotte show they are enjoying the ride they're gonna turn out up yeah they're gonna turn up because they know it's good and i think that's the that that's the pop that's popper roach that's limp biscuit that's the deftones that they're the cars that are coming out of the garage every now and then so so so when you when you go on the drive however long the drive is everybody stops and looks and asks you a question about it oh that's a cool car where'd you get it how long have you had it like that's the cool that to me is like rock bands that that have legacy yeah i like that analogy a lot you know what i mean i think you nailed it with that one dude for real i'm like i'm gonna run with that one yeah you keep you keep that one that's a good one dude it's a good one my man because you guys have kept the car intact you you when you take the car out it sounds mean yep it drives better than it ever has because i because and the shows are bigger than they've ever been yeah we might have done shitty restoration on it a few years ago but we fixed that we got that bondo we got it out of there i'm saying we good exactly new totally so i i really feel that way about about these bands and then the new bands i don't even call i'm not saying they're a mercedes um they're like some new shit yeah like some really cool they last yeah who knows uh and and and we could argue like a bunch of them have proven themselves i'd say like falling in reverse bring me the horizon architects they've all proven themselves they're here they're building legacies of their own yep um what's the new new what's the new new yeah what's the new new what you got bad omens oh i fuck with that bad omens is i like them i love bad omens i mean they're not new new because they have a bunch of records yes but to the awareness of like the mainstream of of like say like the bigger audience um they've been building their thing for a long time uh but live they are badass i like what they've done they got something good going i love it yeah i listened to that record fucking so many times i remember this i remember uh we did a show together and uh i think it was like we finished up making a record uh it's called who do you trust and there was a song and i was like i want to play you this song i'll do check this track out oh yeah it was called uh uh feel like home and it's like very major upbeat yeah major key feel good feels good and i played the song and i was like you're like that's fucking cool man i was like let me hear some of your shit and you played me a couple of years i'm like well how did we just like trade places like your shit's heavier than our shit and i'm like well how did we just like trade places our last shit was kind of heavy yeah it was like you made a fucking heavy ass record and then we went and made like a major key like yeah pop rock fucking record and it's it's trippy how the these journeys that we go on creatively like yeah and what you find out really works for you and then what you find out all right that was cool it was a good exercise but that wasn't the thing and i think that you know any band with a career has those moments right yeah and it's it was just i just trip out about that conversation while do we just i was so excited to play you the heavier stuff because we i i love heavy music i wouldn't say that um i would say live we've gotten to add a lot of heaviness in spots for our live show, but our records weren't as heavy. And I think Generation RX, which is the record I played you, was a moment for me only because, you know, one, I was in a spot where I was feeling very, I had lost a ton of friends to addiction. Lots of people went down to pills and to opioids. And it's funny now because we watch these documentaries about the opioid crisis. It was just planned. And you don't even realize like you were living through it. Yeah. And so you saw it happening. Yes. And you didn't know that's what it was, what was happening. And then you go tour and you just see like the residual effects on humanity. And it's like, man, whoa. And the lives it's ruined. And that was, that record was all around, around like coming to terms with that in my head of like, what I just witnessed for 15, 16 years. And then watching this new generation of artists that, you know, we lost Little Peep, you know, we lost Juice WRLD. We lost all these brilliant artists and it felt like it was just cycling up. Like it was just starting over because they're all so young. And I have lost like a couple of really close friends. And I'm sorry, man. That's all right. You know, I mean, I mean that that's life and we make sense of it with music. And so Generation RX for me was coming to terms with, you know, actualization of like watching like I just watched this for 18 years happened right in front of my eyes. And then I just watched that documentary and then that series of Dope Sick. Yeah. Yeah. And I watched it with my wife and we were just kind of, I was just telling her, I was like, it's crazy. Like when this was all happening and I had family, like family members and lots of people around me that fell victim to that. And at the time you didn't even know, no, you're just like, oh, you didn't know you're living in a crisis. Yeah. Or, or like you thought, oh, they, they should be able to stop that. And you realize like there were, it wasn't designed for people to be able to stop. Never. I feel like, like that grace is a real thing. Like grace is a real thing, brother. Yeah, for sure, man. I think over the last, I'd say five years, five to six years, I've really been able to embrace the, where I am and be comfortable with, because I've always just had this, like, I got to keep driving, keep getting it, keep pushing, keep pressing, keep working, keep getting out there. And I think once I learned how to say no and say, no, I'm not going to do that to her. No, I'm not going to do that. No, I'm not going to do that either. That's when like, I understood my true value. And that's when I understood like that. That's when I could see the true success and the, the legacy, that we have built as a band. And it took me a long time to get to that place. And I'm just, I'm stoked that I can look back now and, and be appreciative and, and know that like, I've done something good. I've done something. Endless summer escapes start here. Play leveled up arcades. Hate games. Beat the heat. Get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house. You guys are badass. It's, I appreciate it, you know? It's not easy. We are. Fuck. Shit. You're badass, dude. It's not easy to be you. To have that career. To keep, to keep the career. Yeah. And to keep the family. Yeah. Right? And to keep the health. Yeah, man. Right? Like, to be alive. It's, balancing all those things, I think, is the, I think the wisdom I've picked up through the years has been able, has been the thing that's given me the ability to suffice that. Because early on, I couldn't handle all these responsibilities. But now I'm good. It's nice to watch. Yeah. It was like, I'm in a kitchen with six burning pans. Yeah. And a bunch of knives. And I'm like, fuck, dude, shit's on fire. Let's grab the knife. Yeah. It's nice to watch. It's nice to watch. Because that's where, that's how it feels as a fan watching. Yeah. And watching, and just following the band, following you, what I get to see, the glimpses I get to see as a fan, it's nice to watch. Because we all need to see it. We all need to see it's possible. Absolutely. And you wear it with a lot of honesty. Yeah, you got to stay hopeful, brothers. You got to stay hopeful. I think that's like, don't lose hope. I think that's the message that I'm trying to get out there. I feel it. If you distill it down to the simplest thing, it's like, just, you know what I'm saying? Stay hopeful. Yeah. Please. Keep getting up. Yeah. And that's what I always like, feel to people listening to these conversations, they need to get a message out of it. They need to understand, like, we weren't the most likely, we weren't the likely bet. Life didn't hand us a bunch of stuff. And then if you were betting on horses, you'd be like, oh yeah, the one with the injured leg, he's going to do great. Yeah, the one that's limping, we're going to take that one. Yeah. No. We'd say, no, I'm going to bet on that, that, that, that, that Mustang over there, that stallion over there. That's the fastest horse. Yeah. And so when you see people that have beaten the odds, the statistics, and then they've also found a way to live a real life, right. And, um, and then actually share about it, which is like, even, you know, is a, is an art form in itself. Like there's a real comfort zone. You got to be in to share with people like what you've been through and how you dealt with it. Sometimes I have a tendency to just. Overshare and sometimes I'm like, hold on, really didn't cope. No, you're another song, you know, but like that actually helps people. That guy that decided to stay, go to the show and live to see another day. Yeah. Who's to say that that isn't the most important thing you've ever done in your career. We don't know what he's going to do with his life because the human potential is limitless and the person that he might help might cure cancer. Yes. Right. Right. Think about that. Like the possibilities are endless of what, what good can come from the, the, the, the trend, the transcendent part of what we do is, is like wrapped up in something else. And why is the beauty of humanity right there is that ability to like take some bad shit and make it good. Yeah. You know, it's like, that's, I think that's just an important adage to, to adhere to. It gives me the opportunity to live a purpose driven life, you know, cause it's like, if I get out there and I'm just flat out. Louder and it's like, ain't nothing good coming from it. You know? So I'm just trying to be purpose driven. And that to me is like the most important message is the one that other people can try to replicate and follow. And because the cynics will say like, ah, whatever, it's just music or yeah, your band, whatever. And you're like, no, that's not, you're not actually the audience I'm speaking to. It's like, I'm actually looking for the person who needs the message. Yeah. And I'm hoping that they'll go after their potential and maybe they'll end up writing a book that'll, that'll continue. We have to hand it back to the people behind us that haven't made it out of the mud yet, passing the torch, right? Like they haven't made it out of the shit yet, but still in the shit. And so real ones know that I feel like anyone who's ever been in some shit shares, cause they're like, I want you to make it out too, because I know what that feels like and I wouldn't wish it on anyone lately, like another, you know, talking about coming up, watching this cat, a jelly roll. I love jelly roll and just what he's bringing to the table and the spirit and the heart. And he's bad-ass I love what he's doing. And it's like, he's another one of those stories of people, right? That like you wouldn't have bet on could have caught him as a hopeless case, but nah, man, there was a heart in there. There was a fire in there that just kept pressing and pushing and pushing. And, uh, that's an inspired, it's an inspiring story. I see that unfold in front of me and it's like, Oh, that's what's up, dude. I love it, man, but that's just, I celebrate it, but that's because you're a real woman. You're a real one and he's a real one and real ones, you're not wishing it on anyone to suffer. Cause you suffered enough. And so a lot of times when people get to the, to the throne or to the podium, they start chopping heads off instead of turning back and going, you can do it too. That's why we love a good winner. We like a good winner because then he inspires us to try again. Yep. We root for the good winner, no matter how many times he wins and the bad winners get up there and they, and they, they chop heads off and they, right. Yeah. Like, and I don't know what they're going through, but like a jelly rolls. One of those guys is a good winner. Yep. He's not, he doesn't have his list of, of grievances that when he gets on the podium, he's going to start going after everyone who ever wronged him along the way. He doesn't remember them. He remembers the guy who like put his hand out and said, I'll help you through this one spot. He remembers his wife helping him through a spot. You hear these stories and you're like, you relate to them and you go, oh yeah, I love my wife too. She helped me too. Yep. So he's promoting all kinds of things. He doesn't even know he's promoting. Yeah. He's promoting marriage. He's a good relationships. He's promoting forgiveness. He's promoting a redemption. He's promoting all this good shit and he's making the world a better place. Absolutely. And I would bet he doesn't even know that. Yeah. He's just doing jelly. He's just doing him. I don't even know him. just a big fan he's cool as fuck i'm trying to get him to come here fuck dude he would be great be a great guest i bet yeah he's a fucking he's a hoot man he's like we've done some shows uh in our day before his success and after his success and he's just his band right now he's got is just ripping too man i saw him live and they're all great players i know jack yep guitar player badass he ripped dude rips he's great with that with uh jelly's band he crushing it man yeah he rips nice work yeah does he tour with uh uh sleeping he was in sleeping with sirens now he's full-time so he's not yeah okay he's doing that full-time i mean dude sleeping with sirens made some heavy ass music too with science is badass dude they fuck it i was like no pun intended i kind of slept on him a little bit early on well that's you know that's what you do on new bands yeah and then i was like hold on what was i missing oh fuck these dudes rip yeah yeah kellen is an incredible singer oh yeah uh absolutely very deep person has a lot to share right i don't know him very well i just seen him in passing a few times but always they're the real dude they're the real deal dude they're they're making the they're sharing their they're like they're that band like they're they're bleeding their hearts out on the records nick's a badass you know justin the bass players they're a great band all right here's another uh totally random question sideways is all-time low from the same yeah maryland yeah that's i was just out in uh florida and i was in a hotel lobby and came downstairs i saw them i was like fuck dude what's up with y'all what you're doing out here they're like are we doing shows and they had just done a show a couple nights before in maryland and it was like i remember reading on the news it got busted up by some kind of like lightning storm or some shit and yeah maryland boys good good dudes great band great another another one of those bands that like has survived that test of time and gotten better and had more success dude the real deal they work they work their asses out and they're like oh my god i'm gonna get my asses off great band nicest guys good maryland guys through and through got it we've known each other a long time um yeah i like those guys yeah people badass badass band they've they've like they've had to work really hard to like just that's the thing is like when you see a new band you always kind of when you get older you kind of go like all right we'll see yeah yeah we'll see what you're made of yeah because quitting is a thing you see people quit or or change directions or do this and then you see the bands like all time though they just stick with it yep keep doing their thing build build build and now i mean they're a huge touring band great songs uh and just like good maryland guys nice guys yeah good dudes i got um nothing but other other guys from maryland uh you know turnstile yeah they're from maryland fuck with that badass so i saw like we did a i saw them at coachella a few years ago and uh i got up and did something with emo night yeah ended up there and i was like oh my god i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this and i was like i gotta go see this band live so i roll up and i'm just hanging out in the crowd and and i see the the band is they're like rolling their cabs on stage and i'm like this is like the old days yeah like i'm watching this band set up their equipment before they're about to this is dope and they they continued to just annihilate the audience and it was yeah every once in a while you get one of those bands that come around and remind people that rock music is the fucking best yeah period like they did it for me again i was like oh god these guys are sick yeah you can still start a band in your garage yeah and you can still do that yep and they fucking rip live so solid man they're fucking they're they're the real deal to kobe thanks for coming man absolutely thanks i can't wait to see what uh papa roach does next i'm excited to hear these songs in this next row it's gonna congrats on on all the success dude i mean i appreciate it bigger and better than ever shit's going really well but i'm excited to hear these songs in this i'm excited for what what's next absolutely and i'm sure we'll we'll on the next cycle we'll we'll likely probably be back out there do some shows do some shows bro come on come on at least see you at a festival thanks thanks for having me man thank you for listening to this episode of artist friendly you can also watch the episodes on spotify spotify premium users get no commercial breaks on my show make sure to follow like and comment because i always read the comments I bet.