Jacob Rees Mogg vs Cenk Uygur & More | Plus Indiana Candidate Admits She 'Had Beers'

the nba's back on prize picks pick a shootout in the west and a boards battle in the east on prize picks you can make all the picks you want all in the same app and now prize picks is available nationwide so what are you waiting for download the prize picks app today and use code spotify that's code spotify to get 150 installing in lineups if you win your first five dollar lineup prize picks run your game must be present in certain states visit prize picks.com for restrictions and details right now we're on the brink of a nuclear exchange and the question is why what i am arguing is if we are prepared for war war becomes less likely if you allow russia to take ukraine then it moves on to the next object we invited jacob on because he took on tucker carlson and held his own rate capably we thought we tested by inviting three more massive american youtubers to take him on you said i'm basically the opposite of a warmonger look at your voting record you supported every war that the uk hasn't been involved with jacob why won't you lift a finger to stop this horrible atrocity in gossip jacob will you admit right here and now that you're a giant liar and you have no principles let him let him let the looney tune go on i think he got mobbed i've got odd oh shall we be respectful about genocide we have guns too i had a course i had a beer the flames of chaos war and social unrest are licking at our doorsteps right now a comfortable sense of inevitable progress has been shattered across the western world barely a day now passes without a plot twist or an incident which feels certain to have grave implications and the result is that old and even historic alliances are a breaking point politics is tilting on its axis this weekend president trump waived the new sanctions on russia that he just signed into law several weeks ago the white house appears to be pivoting to vladimir putin as his best bet for ending the ukraine war even as its weapons still flow to kiev most of america's traditional allies have recognized a palestinian state and say they'd arrest the israeli prime minister if he landed on their shores the u.s president just endorsed netanyahu for re-election the middle east is once again in a state of disorder and uncertainty because decisions made thousands of miles away in just 21 miles across the english channel france is facing a civil emergency several weeks of student protests exploding into nationwide looting rioting and violence on saturday night a 150 year old town hall was torched in limoges an ornate spire which survived two world wars and of all nazi occupation fell apart in flames as rioters cheered from the sidelines what began as a protest by students of better education became an opportunity for violence by many angry young people including organized far-left activists and disaffected young muslims but many u.s conservatives know exactly who they want to blame texas senator ted cruz posted we are witnessing islamists right now burning paris because europe has committed cultural suicide we should look to france's foreshadowing for what america faces if we don't stop this here we are fighting to save our nation president trump blamed out of control mass migration adding this is about islam wanted to take over a once great country well the facts simply don't support the case that one single ethnic group is to blame for the crisis in france but that probably won't make any difference the next president of france will very likely be marine le pen a veteran of the hard right who also happens to openly admire vladimir putin and loathe ukraine well in this new world of chaos and apparent decline the old labels don't really stick populism is thriving across the aisles right wing and left wing liberal conservative doesn't begin to cover the way most people feel and one of the biggest dividing lines is now intervention versus isolation one side broadly believes that the west must fight to defend its world leadership the other thinks that's exactly what got us into this situation this is the end of this mess this collision of world views was laid bare in a recent debate between tucker carlson and jacob reese-mogg who disagreed of whether the uk was right to enter the second world war it was the classic good versus evil has the uk benefited from it we did the right thing is it a better country than it was to have defeated hitler yes so the uk is a better country now it's a healthier country now otherwise we'll be speaking german who cares there are a lot of people in britain who can't speak english it would be nice to have like at least a european language spoken in your country no i've seen no advantage speaking german over any other language and we want to speak english thank you so much well sir jacob reese-mogg to give him his correct full title broadcaster and former conservative minister is part of tonight's panel but joins me uh first for a little chat welcome to uncensored well thank you very much for having me you and i share one thing massively in common now we've both gone toe-to-toe with tucker carlson the enfant terrible of american conservative youtubing what was it like for you you've gone viral in america they're all like who's this jacob guy very very posh isn't he um obviously we know who you are but but how did you find the experience and have you been surprised by the extraordinary virality of what went on between you and tucker well it's a very interesting lesson about the power of social media against traditional media and i'm half aware of that lesson but this was a reminder of it in its full force i thought i was giving a an interview to an american shock jock and that nobody would be very interested in what i had to say in america because nobody had heard of me and nobody would see it in england sometimes i get these things wrong because that wasn't precisely what happened the clash point we just showed was one i have with it which is tucker has this bizarre notion that somehow we should have just let hitler do what he likes and uh what were we doing getting involved and so on are you surprised because a lot of people on the conservative right in america now do share that kind of view of and of course there are historic parallels going on today i think it's a very surprising view and it fails to think through the consequences properly um tucker was assuming that hitler would take poland and then stop but we know very clearly that he wasn't going to stop that he wanted domination of the whole of europe that would have left the uk either as essentially a satellite state or potentially invaded once he'd got strong enough to do it that would have had a profound effect on how we are living now not just on our standard of living but on our rights and on our liberties and therefore we had to stop hitler carrying on and america would have been better off coming in earlier rather than later indeed if america had been arming in the 30s and if we had been arming earlier in the 30s then hitler would not have gone on his um adventures and that's the bit that's being missed now tucker was saying that i'm a warmonger i'm the least warmongering person you find i just recognize the lesson of history that if you are very strong people don't attack you and they don't attack your friends and that's where we've been failing in a funny way we've got everything wrong in recent years that we have run down our military but we've gone in for military adventures the military adventures we probably shouldn't have done but the running down our military we also shouldn't have done i i completely concur uh one of the other flash points you had over ukraine and russia and there are clear parallels it seems to me between what's happening there and the start of world war ii but let's take a look at what happened with you and tucker my only point is right now we're on the brink of a nuclear exchange and the question is why and i don't understand why it's in britain's interest to be at war with russia what i am arguing is that if we are prepared for war war becomes less likely that's the whole basis of deterrence it's the whole reason how about if you stop fighting the war they will be less likely to nuke you oh no that's not true if you if you don't support ukraine if you allow russia to take ukraine then it moves on to the next object why is it up that's what countries do to decide whether or not russia takes ukraine because it's strongly in our national interest and indeed the united states because the one fundamental thing of the world order is the integrity of nation states it's interesting i had president zelensky sitting in your very seat last week and he compared vladimir putin directly to hitler his argument being if he gets what he wants with ukraine and he believes he wants to take the whole country that he he absolutely wouldn't stop there the parallel being as you discussed with tucker that if hitler had taken poland this motion somehow he'd be satisfied and then would leave everything else alone was for the birds do you see that parallel do you agree with it i always am very cautious making parallels to hitler because hitler is such a unique person and he's a very unique person and he's a very unique person and he's a very uniquely evil figure it's much easier you just make the parallel to the soviet union to the romanovs that it has been the tradition of russia to gain territory going back to the romanovs coming in whatever it was at the end of the 16th century but year by year they took more land the soviet union then did the same and putin looks at his country and realizes that he's lost a lot of land in his lifetime and he's trying to get some of it well he never wanted the soviet union he's trying to get some of it well he never wanted the soviet union to do it he's trying to do it with ukraine and poland has been fought over by russia over centuries so we shouldn't be surprised and they used to of course to have the baltic states we shouldn't be surprised by russian adventurism and this is where tucker is wrong because what has led to war so often is miscalculation speculation of the aggressor. aggressor doesn't recognize when the person on the other side will respond and that's why i think failing to be strong now makes at some future point a much more violent response likely the ukraine war is fascinating i mean my brother was an army colonel for many years and he feared from the start of it that notwithstanding what people feel about what's happened to ukraine the inevitability was that russia would win but here we are five years in nearly and ukraine has proved remarkably resilient and is beginning to score some really big hits inside russia but notwithstanding that there is this line really around the donets where hundreds of thousands of young people are being slaughtered you know i mean i think it's nearly 50 000 russians a month at the moment less or fewer ukrainians but still huge numbers and people are saying who like tucker who argue against this you can't just let this story continue elon musk is saying the same thing and part of the thinking for why trump is behaving the way he is with putin he just wants this over now i've had a conversation with trump privately on the phone where he got i mean someone has known him 20 years i was surprised by how passionate he got about the slaughter of young people on the front line in ukraine so a few months ago he was rattling off the numbers he said this just can't go on this is terrible terrible i did believe him he sounded very sincere so all these things could be true at the same time but the overarching problem i have with what trump's doing is it looks like he's giving sucker now to vladimir putin who has illegally invaded ukraine wants to take it over won't stop there and i never thought the day would come when a united states president would do this so i think it's so important to go back to first principles because the apologists for putin say well nato shouldn't have expanded yeah what do you say to that argument nato clearly indisputably did talk in a language that was guaranteed to irritate putin all of that becomes irrelevant once somebody invades sovereign territory putin may have had grounds for complaint but they don't justify invasion that there is only really one absolute in the international structure and that is the integrity of the nation state if you take that away there is no order of any kind and so however wrong that was or however right that was is irrelevant once putin has crossed that line of invasion and then you're looking at the first principle of the integrity of the nation state so that's why i think putin can't be in the right regardless of european interference in elections and corruption in ukraine or any of those sorts of accusations they become entirely secondary to this fundamental principle what do we do about putin then what should america be doing america should be giving all the support it can to ukraine to win um and to and do you think ukraine can win well it depends what you mean by win can it can it remove russia from the 20 or so of its land that russia currently occupies including the whole of the crimea i would have thought that is extremely unlikely so crimea i've always thought is that's done but the donbass and donetsk area in particular that is what ukraine say and zelensky repeated it to me they don't want to cede an inch of that land even if they don't want to cede an inch of that land even if they don't want to cede an inch of that land even if they don't want to cede an inch of that land even if they don't want to cede an inch of that land even if the russians are currently occupying it is it realistic that in some way of bringing this to an end russia gets nothing out of this very long-standing wars of this kind tend to end when one side or the other collapses rather than neatly with a peace treaty that both sides are so deeply entrenched at this such stage that it's hard to see how they can converse with each other it may be possible for america to play a role in a peace treaty that does give russia some land but i can quite understand why ukraine after four four and a half years of war doesn't want to agree to that so i think what is realistic and what the ukrainians will want may well not be the same thing well let's bring in uh the rest of our panel now um because he's seen off tucker carlson we brits all believe that well done jacob uh tucker wouldn't agree he always thinks he sees all us brits off tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college that's why she shops at bj's grocery store prices beef jerky microwave meals laundry pods even they can't screw up have you met my kids and with bj's gas she gets there for less they call me the road warrior this is your home road warrior mom home of the save join for just twenty dollars at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months open soon limited time offer new members only bj's home of the save symbol three of the biggest beasts in the unsanctified jungle all of whom disagree uh with your views on just about everything glenn greenwald host of system update max blumenthal editor of the gray zone and czech yuga founder and ceo of the young turks you know uh czech is quite interesting though because i would have thought that naturally my views and jacob's views historically would you know very rarely meet together and yet we're in a weird time in the world now where a lot of people who were positioned on the conservative right now find themselves in agreement on many key issues as people on the left it's not as easy to pigeonhole people is it as it used to be yeah absolutely and uh i i was amused at that conversation you guys were just having about the most important rule in international order is the sovereignty uh of a nation state i'm sure that lebanon and iran let alone gaza would like to hear about that because israel violated the sovereignty and it violates that more than anyone at all times and instead of stopping them as uh you know your guest is saying here what we've done is encourage them enable their fascism and that's why we have endless wars in the middle east so uh the left and the right are uniting around this idea of why are we fighting endless wars why are we fighting other people's wars why did we spend eight trillion dollars fighting all of israel's neighbors and the answer is simple uh actually george h.w bush was right the answer is simple uh actually george h.w bush was right the answer is simple uh actually george h.w bush was right the answer is simple uh actually george h.w bush was right i he when he i he when he i he when he liberated kuwait and then said he would not go liberated kuwait and then said he would not go liberated kuwait and then said he would not go into iraq what the new world order was was into iraq what the new world order was was into iraq what the new world order was was just simply saying that sovereign nations just simply saying that sovereign nations just simply saying that sovereign nations shouldn't attack one another but the shouldn't attack one another but the shouldn't attack one another but the nation that decided to violate that nation that decided to violate that nation that decided to violate that repeatedly dozens of times is israel repeatedly dozens of times is israel repeatedly dozens of times is israel and not only them but they force us and not only them but they force us and not only them but they force us because they control our government because they control our government because they control our government completely to attack iraq iran and iraq completely to attack iraq iran and iraq completely to attack iraq iran and iraq just seven countries they wanted so it's just seven countries they wanted so it's just seven countries they wanted so it's interesting that i see in american media interesting that i see in american media interesting that i see in american media and british media now oh my god i can't and british media now oh my god i can't and british media now oh my god i can't believe russia invaded ukraine that's the believe russia invaded ukraine that's the believe russia invaded ukraine that's the worst thing in the whole world and by worst thing in the whole world and by By the way, I agree with that, and I don't agree with Tucker on the World War II revisionism, right? But at the same time, they have a completely hypocritical view when it comes to Israel. Oh, well, they're allowed to attack everyone. They're allowed to kill everyone. They're allowed to take land. And, in fact, we should fund all of that fascism and that war. And we're all sick of it. The left's sick of it. The right's sick of it. The whole country's sick of it. Three-quarters of us don't want to be in this war in Iran, yet we have no choice in the matter because our government is so thoroughly corrupt that they would never listen to the American people. They would much rather listen to Israeli politicians and billionaires than us, and that's a stone-cold fact. And in 2028, they're going to see how sick of it we were because one of us is going to win, and we're going to bring America back, and we're going to free America. Well, we may, Glenn Greenwald, in just over two weeks, see the immediate consequence of this in the midterm elections in America where the polling currently suggests that the United States is going to win. A bit of a blue wave engulfing American politics with, I think, Republicans almost giving up now on being able to save the House of Representatives, but growing sense amongst pollsters that the Senate is probably going to move, too. If that does happen, from a purely political perspective, does it really make any difference to what Trump may or may not do with Ukraine or, indeed, as Cenk was talking there about Israel? No, it doesn't make any difference. The Democratic Party is led by people who were actually more supportive of U.S. involvement in the war in Ukraine and Russia than even the Republicans were. It was Joe Biden's policy. The Democratic Party unanimously supported our involvement in Ukraine by sending hundreds of billions of dollars that we could have used at home for the American people over to Kiev where a lot of it vanished. And then on top of that, many of them are also supporters of the Iran War and also the wars in the Middle East. But I just want to say a couple of things of listening to this conversation. You know, this idea that, oh, Putin is, you know, so clearly in the wrong because he crossed the one red line that you can't cross, which is invading a sovereign country. Both of you are citizens of the U.K. that did exactly that in 2003. You didn't do it to a neighboring country, which was filled with, you know, I agree. I know you were against it. I'm not just against it. I know. I led the British media campaign against the illegal invasion of Iraq. I know. But Jacob and his father did not. But also, let me just say that that's the one thing. It's kind of hard to be a citizen. Well, just to be clear, Jacob's now made actually quite an extraordinary concession. I think Peirce was right and brave, actually, to lead the opposition to the invasion of Iraq. I thought it was justified at the time on the self-defense grounds of weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to be a dishonesty. And it is clearly wrong. I mean, you can't. You basically did the same thing Putin did. I'm very conscious because you don't like that leadership. You did the same thing Putin did, which is you didn't. lead the army but you supported it but also you said i'm basically the opposite of a warmonger look at your voting record you supported every war that the uk hasn't been involved with you supported bombing uh libya and changing the regime there you supported bombing syria and taking out assad you voted for bombing iraq against isis you voted for bombing syria again against isis and you have this long record of foreign policy aggression that not only matches putin's but far exceeds it and that's why i really don't understand i just want to say as well like that's clearly nonsense i was not in favor of invading countries your voting record did i misstate your voting record the the voting record i know i can't remember my voting record as well as you i started it um the motion i voted for on syria was not in favor of borrowing bombing syria as it happens which is why i voted for it you should read the precise wording of the motion um it said that there would be another vote before there was any bombing of it and it wasn't then bombed i think extraterritorial activity can only be justified under very extreme circumstances i think the first iraq war was completely justified and remains justified with hindsight the second gulf war was done on a dishonesty and that was a terrible mistake what about libya libya wasn't threatening the uk neither was syria and and this is the thing you know if you look at what's going on you know you mentioned france and a bunch of other places including the uk where people are extremely angry at both political parties in the u.s too you know peers you mentioned that the midterms one of the reasons is people are sick of sending their money to other foreign wars that they feel have nothing to do with them it's not just trump obama in 2016 was confronted by jeffrey goldberg the neocon editor of the atlantic and he said why didn't you do more to confront russia in both syria and ukraine and obama said are you going to do more to confront russia in both syria and ukraine and obama said are you crazy ukraine is not a vital interest to the u.s and never will be it is a vital interest to russia because that was the country that was used twice to invade them from the west but it is not a vital interest let me let me ask you okay but here's what i would say to that is that i hear you talk about about ukraine like that and i say you're putting a lot of trust in putin doing this for justifiable reasons you know provoked by nato uh this has got nothing to do with the rest of us it's a matter for them to sort out and so on why why put your faith in putin not to behave exactly how many people fear he would behave which is if he got uh say he took the donbass as part of any settlement the idea he would stop there having taken got attacked georgia took crimea now gets the idea this contains putin when his clear history shows he would just then go and want more why put faith in him to contain himself to that kind of thing putin has been the president of russia for 25 years every american president who dealt with him starting with bill clinton and george w bush then obama all said he's an incredibly rational actor you make agreements with him and he abides by those deals that's not me saying that those are all three american well actually i'll tell you what why do you say that why do you said that i'll get my team to find the clip of me interviewing bill clinton about putin who we had about a year-long crossover with where he does say that very point and it is relevant and it is interesting the question is whether he's still the same vladimir putin that bill clinton dealt with back in the 90s that is i think and barack obama in the 2000s and in the into 2016 and trump feels the same way it's every american president including george w bush who said he looked in the eyes of putin and saw his soul and believes in him but you know he's got 6 000 nuclear weapons so at some point there is a there is a moment of reckoning for every american president which is you're not tangling with a non-nuclear power but pierce this is what amazes me honestly is you know during the cold war uh i wouldn't know i wasn't alive then but i hear that the biggest fear that americans had and that the russians had was a risk of a nuclear war which we came extremely close to at least on one occasion through nothing more than misperception and miscommunication and a lot of americans think and i totally agree why are we risking a war with russia and you know british generals are talking about it and they're talking about it and they're talking openly about it so are a lot of people in europe over who rules the donbass this is not a vital interest certainly not the united states and you have western europe who that's falling apart financially people are losing faith all over western europe that's why they're turning to marine le pen or nigel farage or other types of figures like that or maybe jean luke mellon sean on the left you see this loss of faith there's no safety net that europe can continue to provide to its people and now we're talking about spending hundreds of billions of dollars to build up a european military to prepare for war with russia the largest nuclear power on the country this is all madness and we have 25 years that demonstrates that and i don't understand why people who supported foreign policy of militarism and aggression and invasion over the last 25 years are completely cavalier about that risk let me ask jacob to respond then i'll bring maxim jacob what's your response to that well you have to be prepared for war if you want peace that is the basic principle and putin has been a consistent aggressor so maybe that previous presidents have dealt with him nonetheless he did this in georgia he did it um in the crimea he then moved into ukraine there is no reason to suppose that he would stop um and as regards america's interest in ukraine you mentioned what um obama had said about it america did do a deal with ukraine to which russia and the british were signatories getting ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons in return for its territorial integrity now it seems to me that it's quite important that if the united states makes an agreement of that kind it should give some heed to it i accept that it was not an agreement to fight for ukraine but it was in the interests of america for ukraine to be a non-nuclear state and that's why it is in the u.s's continuing interest to maintain the integrity of ukraine okay uh max welcome back to our sensor what's your uh view of all this well my view is much of the discussion from jacob's side has been ahistorical he misrepresents the budapest memorandum of 1994 and says that ukraine was forced to give up its nuclear weapons in fact those nuclear weapons belonged to russia they weren't ukraine's to give up no they belong to the soviet union and it's important to differentiate because the soviet union had a particular legal identity in turkey if the u.s gave up its nuclear weapons at the incident of the nuclear war it would be the same as the u.s gave up its nuclear weapons in syrlik airbase in turkey that wasn't turkey giving up its that's not at all the same if california has nuclear weapons in it seceded from the union they would be california's nuclear weapons you're simply wrong falsely jacob is simply wrong jacob is interrupting because i am because he did what happened you're making things up well he's saying he's saying to me to be fair max hang on hang on hang on hang on let's all let's all start talking over each other to be clear to be clear but he's jacob you have a max jacob is let me say something max let's try and keep this respectful no no no we need to have facts here okay jacob is saying jacob i want to talk about let me talk please let me talk jacob is questioning your statement on a factual basis right he is saying you're factually wrong because he's wrong because the nuclear weapons belong to soviet union not russia even though they're on ukrainian land and he says there is an important distinction about under the memorandum they belong they belong to russia they are russian nuclear weapons russia didn't exist as a sovereign state it was the soviet union it's the breakup of the soviet union that is essential and you let him if the united states president mikhail sakashvili invaded south osetia moving on that was why the russian army entered you you never want to talk about context we don't want to talk about the context of the united states support and eu supporting the overthrow of a democratically elected government in ukraine in 2014 shattering ukraine's sovereignty the natofication of ukraine the u.s and the uk planting billions of dollars of weapons on russia's borders there was provocation and what's really going on with this discussion now we're years into this conflict years into this proxy war where ukraine has been turned into a proxy state where the u.s with uk and eu help has fought a war for israel on iran that has totally failed through strength didn't work there is the contradictions are beginning to explode out into the open diesel costs are going up british families are paying 10 of their income on energy costs uh germany has lost 500 million jobs since 2019 20 million jobs in germany that's not it's only 80 million that's according to reuters today could have lost 500 million jobs it's only got a population of 80 million i misspoke it's 500 000 jobs which is a lot 500 000 jobs that's in reuters let me play let me play a clip to change this is the clip of me interviewing bill clinton uh for cnn this was in uh about 2012 13 something like that but it's quite pertinent i think let's take a listen He's very smart. You know him better than most people. Yeah, I do. What was he like behind closed doors, away from the public utterances? Smart and remarkably, we had a really good blunt relationship. How blunt? Brutally blunt. Ever like in a fisticuff? No, but I think the right strategy most of the time is, but it's frustrating to people in your line of work, you should be brutally honest with people in private. And then if you want them to help you, try to avoid embarrassing them in public. Now, sometimes they do things which make it impossible for you to keep quiet. But by and large, I found all the people I dealt with appreciated it if I told them the truth. How I honestly felt and what our interests were and what our objectives were. And they also appreciated it. Right. When I didn't kick them around in public for as long as I couldn't kick them around. So, you know, that's my experience. Did Putin ever renege on a personal agreement he made to you? No, he did not. So behind closed doors, he could be trusted? He kept his word in all the deals we made. You know, Chang, I found that interesting. And that was interviewing Clinton 15 years after he ever had to deal with Putin. It was interesting because it gave an insight into what he's like to deal with, which may explain, to me it doesn't justify it, but it may explain the way Trump handles Putin, right? I mean, what do you make of that clip and the relevance it may or may not have to what's going on now? Yeah. You know, I might have a unique position here because I'm consistently against aggression. I was against the Russian aggression. I'm against the Israeli aggression. And it's amazing because as you guys described Putin, if you take out the name Putin and put in the name Netanyahu, it's perfect. Right. A guy who cannot be appeased, keeps attacking his neighbors. So I have no interest in defending Putin at all and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. My issue there appears is, yeah, he could be a rational actor, as Bill Clinton and all the presidents pointed out and Glenn pointed out, but he could rationally want to take more land. And by the way, two things can be true at the same time. We could be guilty of pushing him, pushing NATO up to his borders, which is unquestionably true. We did do that. And it was needlessly provocative. It's also true. It's true that Russia shouldn't have invaded. But we've lost all semblance of law and order in the world because our governments are so hypocritical. They've become a joke. So they say, oh, I can't believe that Russia and Putin is doing this aggression. But, oh, we love it when Israel and Netanyahu does aggression over and over again, takes 70 percent of Gaza, has southern Lebanon, southern Syria, forces into attacking Iran, apparently forces into attacking Iraq. Libya, Syria, et cetera. And then we talk about worrying about aggression. No, no, we love aggression when it comes from us, when it comes from the Israelis. But then when Putin does it, all of a sudden, aggression is the worst thing in the world. Can we even bother to try to be consistent about this? And then one more thing, Peter, that's really important. In the midst of all this, we keep talking about Donbass and Tel Aviv and Tehran. Nobody's talking about Poughkeepsie and San Antonio and Rhode Island. Nobody cares about America. And because the heart of the problem is not any of these foreign actors. It's corruption. And there's another giant iceberg we're not talking about. Israel's not the only lobby that's corrupt. All the lobbies are corrupt, including the one we never mentioned, the defense contractors. The defense contractors have been pushing for war in Russia and Ukraine and in Israel and the Middle East. Wherever there's going to be war, the defense contractors are going to make billions. And they bribe almost all of us. They bribe our politicians to the tune of millions of dollars. And by the way, also bribe our generals. The minute they retire, either Israel or the defense contractors hire our generals. And all of our generals know that. So they all push for war so they could become millionaires afterwards. OK. Jacob, on Israel, you know, you strongly defended the military campaign against Hamas. I strongly defended from the start Israel's right to defend itself. In fact, I argued it had a moral duty to its citizens to defend itself from any further attacks. I think that's what I'm saying. I think two things that may sound slightly contradictory. One is that it was a mistake to attack Iran. But secondly, once America had attacked Iran, it was in Britain's interest to support America. Because it's our most important relationship. But out of interest, why? Because we did that over Iraq in 2003. And you've accepted now that I was right, along with all those who opposed it. Because I didn't see that we had an absolute duty to support George W. Bush in what I thought was an ill-judged, illegal environment. In 2003, the argument put forward was the weapons of mass destruction, which weren't there. I think it is important to maintain a very close relationship with the United States, our own defense and security. But it shouldn't be blind military support, should it? Because I felt with the Iran attack, I didn't think we should. Here's what I thought. If you're an ally of the United States, as we are, and we rely on America so much as a country, and always have done, particularly in any military conflict we want to get engaged in. But if we are an ally, I felt we should have allowed them to use the bases. Yes. But I did not think we should feel a compulsion to join in the military action. I think you phrase it very nicely. I think that the correct attitude should be exactly as in your interview with Bill Clinton, privately saying we think you should not be doing this, but publicly saying we will not do anything to obstruct you once you've decided to do it. That's the reality of the balance of power. That's the reality of the balance of power between the U.K. and the U.S. I think Tony Blair deserves some credit for maintaining a relationship with the U.S., which would otherwise have been very difficult. But I think Kirsten Armour was wrong not to allow the bases to be used. I certainly wouldn't have been in favor of committing British forces to what has been a bad idea. And this is where absolute principles are valuable. Because was the intervention in Venezuela what made Trump think it was a good idea? I think it was a good idea to do Iran, because Venezuela worked, and it worked quickly. Well, you know, it might be. Let me bring the others in here. I mean, Glenn, I think that history will look back at this, and this could be the chain of events which has played out here, which is actually the more significant thing may have been the 12-day war a year ago, in which clearly the Americans went in with a remarkably clinical and apparently successful operation attacking Iran's nuclear capital. In a way that they claimed, falsely it turned out, had put them back their nuclear program by decades. But it was a very successful military operation. You may not agree with it, but it was successful all over in 12 days. The Iranian response was pretty limited. And I'm sure that part of Trump's thinking this time around was, well, they didn't do much last time. Then you add Venezuela, the capture of Maduro, no casualties on the American side. Again, clinical, quick, successful. And then you have Netanyahu. Netanyahu in the White House Situation Room earlier this year saying to Trump, look, the 12-day war shows Iran has got no way of responding to you guys and to us. The Venezuela thing showed how easy it is to decapitate a regime. We can take out the Ayatollah now with his top people. Then the IRGC will collapse from within. Then the people will rise up. You know, you can see a sequence of events here where in Trump's head, he starts to really believe this narrative. And he's had a couple of goes. Things which have been very quick and effective and relatively simple militarily. And then we end up with Iran, which turns out to be a complete, I think, complete disaster. And a disaster that's had enormous consequences in many ways, but not least for Trump politically, because his own supporters have come around to thinking, well, hang on. You said you weren't going to do any Middle Eastern wars. You said you were going to focus on America first and cost of living in America. And all the reverse has happened. YOU DECLARED THE BIGGEST POSSIBLE WAR IMAGINABLE IN THE Middle East with the most powerful entity in the Middle East and the consequence has been massively rising energy prices because of the Strait of Hormuz and that's had a knock-on effect directly on the ordinary lives of Americans paying more uh the fuel pumps and everywhere else and I think that's why he's going to get punished in the midterms and ultimately the party will be kicked out probably in 2028 albeit it's two years away you know that that's my kind of I think that's how history will will record this what do you think the NBA's back on prize picks pick a shootout in the west and a boards battle in the east on prize picks you can make all the picks you want all in the same app and now prize picks is available nationwide so what are you waiting for download the prize picks app today and use code spotify that's code spotify to get 150 dollars instantly in lineups if you win your first five dollar lineup prize picks run your game the game must be present in certain states visit prizepicks.com for restrictions and details well first of all Israel got hit very hard even during that uh 12-day war uh Iran bombed a lot of sites in Israel the Israeli government made it illegal to report it people who tried were arrested but there was a lot of damage done to Israel but let's just assume you're right peers and I actually accept your premises for the most part that he thought it was going to be easy as easy in Iran as it was in Venezuela still there's if we just stop and think about this for a second I really wish we in the west had a better capability to do this about what the moral implications are of what we're actually saying it was super easy to go into Venezuela surprise they're a small country they've been suffocated economically by the United States and the west for decades now yes the U.S. has a stronger military than Venezuela we went into Venezuela and despite the fact that it was a successful military operation we went in to take over the country to steal their oil reserves to hold their government at gunpoint and we tried to do the same thing in Iran that's what Trump wanted to do in Iran was have the leadership of Iran after we decapitated the senior leadership basically be as servile to the U.S. as Venezuela is and so here we are on the one hand saying oh Putin this evil man how dare he go and invade the sovereignty of another country when we constantly do it in the west far more so than than Putin ever has in Venezuela and Iran to say nothing of Iraq and Libya and Syria and on and on are perfect examples but we don't apply the same standards to ourselves and I just want to make one quick point and I I really don't mean this like in any way as a personal point about about Jacob or even you peers that Jacob said Americans didn't know who he was before he talked to Tucker I actually have admired Jacob's as a fan of oratory his kind of idiosyncratic means of expression I enjoy listening to him and have for a long time there's definitely an insult nonetheless I'm very explicit about this it is now there's the criticism coming I just want to say it's not personal which is one of the things that have happened in both the UK and the US and and the West more broadly is that we have a lot of extremely rich people who like to go around looking at other countries and saying oh we have to focus on Ukraine and we have to go be very strong militarily and be prepared for war and yet Jacob is kind of the perfect example of somebody who grew up in extreme wealth never got near the military never fought in all of these words that he's been championing never himself was a leader in this idea that you have to be strong and be ready to go to war he was never ready to go to war and when you're extremely wealthy and you kind of sit at the top of society it's very easy to say let's look over there at Ukraine there were really interesting things going on in there or let's go look at what's happening in Libya or Syria and meanwhile the people in your country who weren't born into extreme wealth and a lot of whom end up going to the military often for economic reasons are are suffering in their lives and they keep hearing these conversations about places on the other side of the world and this is why I truly believe parties that hate the establishment that that vessel uh contempt and and and a vow to destroy the establishment on both the left and the right have been rising and rising in so many countries around the world because the establishment is filled with a bunch of coddled very wealthy people who simply not only don't have experiences in common with the ordinary person but have contempt for their concerns and that's why they love to spend all this money elsewhere well let's let's have Jacob respond to that okay I accept I have not personally been in the military though my father did his National Service and my grandfather was in the first war and my eldest son has just joined um in having gone to university joined the OTC so the family are certainly um to some degree involved and have been involved so I think to say there's a complete disconnect is wrong I also think this idea of contempt for um people is fundamentally wrong and fails to understand the British political system I don't think anyone can be a member of parliament for 14 years and see constituents every single week in constituency surgeries bringing their problems their concerns their issues and trying to put them right without having a very good feeling for what people think and a genuine concern for them I would say my constituency work was the most important work I did as a member of parliament so I don't accept this characterization I'm also not as I think you feel I am regrettably I wish I were um but my father lived off a journalist's salary and that's what I grew up with and journalists even in the 1970s and 80s weren't enormously well paid what are you down to Jake you'd be lost like 20 million or no I don't have any particular money I mean I might have done if I hadn't gone into politics but politics you were raised by your nanny weren't you talk about that I've heard you talk about them before you were raised by a nanny yes you're not exactly working class super rich I mean you're talking I'm not Elon Musk in minor form none of us is that um I'm not saying I'm not comfortably off but I'm definitely not super rich okay I'm not as rich as Pierce I reckon you've got more money on your walls in your art than I've earned in my lifetime but that's that's a matter of mine well okay uh Max let's just Pivot slightly to events in France because we're seeing a lot of activity there genuine protest by students protesting about state of education and others which have been mainly peaceful and then by night you've seen not just in Paris but in other cities a bunch of thugs come out and loot and set fire to things and and cause criminal damage now I it's interesting to me to watch this because I went to an game my football team and we played Paris Saint-Germain in Paris two years ago and we lost as Paris Saint-Germain won should have been an occasion for celebration and yet the moment it fell all these same characters came out and hit the streets and began smashing everything up rioting with police looting setting fire to things and so on and that had nothing to do with anything other than there was a football match and there were a bunch of Brits on the streets and they thought they'd come out and have a punch up so I'm very cynical about the sort of the purity of the ideology of the so-called protesters that we're seeing in France because I think a lot of them are just thugs and I'm not even sure it's an immigration issue most of them seem to me to have been born in Paris which is a very multicultural City and they're just thugs they just want to steal stuff now that was based on my experience two years ago at a football match had nothing to do with anything happening now except it was the same characters dressed in the same way doing the same criminal stuff yeah I mean I'm cynical about black block style uh nihilistic violence uh I have a general idea of what's happening in France I produced a documentary uh over 10 years ago about the situation I'm not surprised it's happening let me try to tie this into the broader discussion debate between Jacob and Tucker because we're not just seeing it in France we're seeing it in Albania we're and you know we're not seeing anyone cheer on this violence as we did in Iran in January as I heard from so many guests on this show this is threatening violence uh it's foreboding it speaks to a crisis of legitimacy in a European leadership in European Elite which seeks to freeze wages uh strip away welfare and social benefits and create a war economy this is a case that we heard advanced by the British army chief Rolly Walker he wants to increase the army budget by three or the military budget by three percent and strip away social welfare benefits uh we heard that from Jacob too in his debate with Tucker the crisis of legitimacy can only be resolved through a war economy a state of emergency stripping away the rights of citizens stripping away what's left of the wealth of the public and directing it not to what Jacob called stupid welfare stupid welfare benefits but to the ultimate welfare queen in the world who just came to the European Commission and asked for 78 billion dollars more from Europe to fight a war that he can't win while he is actually not have holding elections and has banned all opposition I'm referring to Vladimir zelensky so in order to get this war economy going the European public and specifically the British public needs to be heavily propagandized and told that Putin is Hitler Putin is Hitler as though he's killed 26 million people as though he's putting Jews and dissidents and Roma people in concentration camps in order to get the British public where 10 only 10 percent according to a YouGov poll last year of youth say they would actually fight for Britain to get them to want to fight a country that does not threaten them and when they when this war economy starts and when the war actually starts and they start tempting nuclear annihilation it's going to be the poor and working class children who go and fight for Latvia and Estonia against Putin. It's not going to be the children of the wealthy elites. And that's a sacrifice that Jacob is willing to make. Jacob? Well, it's simply not true. If you look at the First World War from my old school, a whole five-year cohort were killed. So 1,280, I think, Italians were killed. That's equivalent to a full five years. As I said, my eldest son, who's the only one of military age, has already signed up to the ATC. In this country, we have a very strong tradition, if ever we go to war, that everybody goes to war. And that's certainly true in the Second World War and the First World War, and indeed in the Falklands. So I think that's simply not true and a misunderstanding. I'd also go further on welfare. Our welfare bill, our state expenditure is too high regardless. We're spending about 45% of GDP, and we have tax revenues that never go much above 38% of GDP. That is a 7% gap. That is a problem that needs to be dealt with regardless of whether there's any funding for war. And a thought on France, the French education system spends 87 billion euros a year, of which 24 billion euros goes on pensions. Now, states have taken on commitments that they simply cannot afford. There needs to be a fundamental financial restructure, which is going to include changes. Within the context of this, we're talking about military expenses. Going up from 2.6% of GDP to 3.6% of GDP. This is a drop in the ocean. You're trying to make the whole change about preparedness for war, about defense. Well, that's because so many of the contracts come back to Britain and come back to the U.S. and get the elite wealthier. Zelensky himself admitted that 70% of the aid that's sent to Ukraine goes back into contracts to the wealthy elite who are building McMansions in Northern Virginia from Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and all the rest of the world. So, I think that's going to be a big step for all of the defense companies. It's about stripping away the public wealth by creating a war economy and moving the wealth upward for an elite. I think this is slightly crazy conspiracy theory stuff. And if you wanted to stop Hitler, if you wanted to stop the Holocaust of our time, you would be staging a military intervention on behalf of the people of Gaza who have experienced that Holocaust at the hands of a genocidal government. But instead, you're supporting that government. But by your argument, hang on, Max. Max, by your argument. Anyways, Israel is a model for Europe. Okay. Okay. If you're making an analogy there that somehow Netanyahu is a new Hitler, there are nearly 80,000 dead in Gaza in the entire war. We all agree that's roughly the number, right? As you said, you can't call anybody the new Hitler or anything like it if they haven't killed 12 million people. So, you're kind of killing your own argument. Well, you can call what happened in Gaza a Holocaust. You can call what happened in Gaza a Holocaust. I watched so many facts. Can you, though? Is it a Holocaust? Because a Holocaust, by modern understanding of a Holocaust, it's a Holocaust. It's the murder of six million Jews systematically in World War II, right? We've not seen that in Gaza. No, that's not the definition. We've seen, to me, an appalling. No, that's not the definition of a Holocaust. We've seen an appallingly disproportionate response to a terror attack. But if you toss around the word like Holocaust. A Holocaust is a great genocide in which we watch people be burned to death, which is precisely what happened in Gaza. But by your own argument, defending Putin against the charges that he's killed masses of people. I'm not defending Putin. I'm opposing propaganda. I find it jarring. But hang on, Max. I find it jarring. You race to defend Putin for the relatively small number of people he's killed. No, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of your opinion. And yet here you are saying that Netanyahu's killed fewer people than Putin has. He's the genocidal monster. Your show manufactured consent early on for the Holocaust of our time in Gaza, which spiritually perpetuates the memory of the Holocaust in which Netanyahu. So why has Putin not waged a Holocaust in Ukraine? And so I'm pointing out. Max, Max, it's very important this. Max, Max, don't just keep talking if I'm asking you a question. It's very important you answer this question so that I understand what you're getting at. Why, by your own yardstick then, if what Netanyahu has done in Gaza is a Holocaust, why is what Putin's done in Ukraine not a Holocaust, given he's killed a lot more Ukrainians? He hasn't killed a lot more Ukrainians. No, he hasn't. And far less children and civilians have been killed in Ukraine, especially per capita. Percentage-wise, that have been killed in Gaza. With raw numbers. Ukraine has a population 40 times the size of Gaza, and four times more civilians in Gaza were killed by Israel than have been killed in Ukraine. Why are you guys defending this so strongly? No, because these things. Why are you racing to defend what Putin's done, but you race to attack Netanyahu? I'm calling for the UK to stop what Israel's doing. Why can't we just. Why won't the UK stop what Israel's doing? Jacob, why won't you lift a finger to stop this horrible atrocity in Gaza? The UK has the ability to stop what is going on there. And that's the hypocrisy that speaks to the crisis of legitimacy of the Ukrainian elite. There are two very different questions, actually. The one in relation to Ukraine is whether it is a legitimate action by Russia, to which the answer seems to me clearly not, that it invaded sovereign territory that had been agreed between Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom and Ukraine. And then in Gaza, you've got a question of proportionality, that Israel clearly had a right after. the 7th of October, 2023, to defend itself. The question now is whether that is proportionate. But that is a very different question from whether it has any moral basis at all. And I would go back to what I said to Piers earlier. Once one brings Hitler into it, one debases the argument altogether, that it's not a comparison that can ever be made. His activities were a unique evil and a unique horror. These are different types of wars. That doesn't make them right. It doesn't justify them. But it is a different context. And banding around the word Holocaust is frankly just silly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me bring in Chang. Chang? Okay. Okay. So there's just nonstop excuses for Israel's aggression. Look, war is also surrounded by something we're not talking about, which is propaganda. So first, let's get the definitions right. A Holocaust is not just killing six million Jews. It has nothing to do with a race or religion. It's about trying. in terms of who is targeted, right? It has to do with targeting and trying to. It's about trying to wipe out an ethnicity at all. A genocide is attacking an ethnicity in whole or in part. That's why what happened in Srebrenica is a genocide. The Armenian genocide is considered a genocide, but not a Holocaust because the Armenians in other parts of the Ottoman Empire were not touched. And by the way, that's the same argument that the Israelis make. We didn't murder all Palestinians. No, that would be a Holocaust. What you're doing is a genocide, like the Turks did, the Serbs did, and the Japanese did, and so many others. So now when you talk about the throughline here, what is the connective tissue? So some people in their propaganda say, oh, we are so worried about Russian aggression. And then you talk about Israeli aggression and how they say, well, they were attacked. Well, really? So do the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves? Because they've been brutally occupied and oppressed for now six decades. So since everyone in the West, at least the people in power. not the voters, have a completely Israeli perspective, they're like, oh, no, Israel is allowed to oppress the Palestinians, is allowed to murder the Palestinians, is allowed to do 80 times of October 7th. They're just Palestinians. We don't care about them at all. And then, by the way, Israel is allowed to do aggression against Lebanon, against Syria, against Iran. The U.S. is allowed to do aggression against Iraq, against Iran, all nations that didn't attack us. So our hypocrisy is super obvious. Once you get past the propaganda, why do we have that propaganda? Because Glenn is right. The elites love war. The defense contractors and the oil companies make money off of it. Israel gets to use the American military and our boys and girls die for Israel. All of our money, literally trillions of dollars in war for Israel because the elites want it. The donor class wants it. The media wants it. The American people do not want it. I mean, look, the Iran war is a crystal clear example. So is the Ukraine war. We don't want to do it anymore. But you pricks who are elites keep forcing us into wars to serve the billionaires who do want the wars. And you don't mind that we die in those wars and we get bankrupt in those wars. That's the connective tissue that the entire media is trying to obfuscate because the media works for the elites. OK, Cenk, you managed to get through 55 minutes of a debate without shouting. We nearly lost it. You managed to arrange yourself back in. I'm calmly telling you what the American people can't stand anymore, which is elite pricks like this telling us how we have to go to war at first principles and absolute principles. What absolute principles? Jacob, what absolute principles? You don't have to call him. Will you admit right here now that you're a giant liar and you have no principles at all? Only principle you want is war, war, war, every time war and 90% of the time for Israel. But no, I have first principles. What's your first principle? Endless war for Israel, right? Let the record show. Let the record show. I mind all war. But Jacob says, no, I love war. But ooh, Putin did something. Oh, guess what? My first principle, more war, right? Every time, more war. Thank you, Cenk. Let me just say for the record that we invited Jacob on because he took on Tucker and held his own very capably. thought we'd test him by inviting three more massive American influencers, YouTubers, big 3D figures to take him on. He's held his own again. And you know what, Cenk? I think he got marred. I don't think he has. You know what, Cenk? He got absolutely marred. Cenk, unlike Glenn and Max, unlike Glenn and Max, we've maintained a modicum of respectful dialogue with Jacob, who's been, as he always is, the epitome of old-fashioned British pride. I'm so respectful about the billionaires trying to get us into war and getting us all killed. I'm so respectful about getting you all slaughtered. Have you been respectful to the Palestinians? One of the panel has sadly resorted that Jacob and all the warmongers do not care about at all. Only respectful to the elites. Only respectful to the Israelis. Never respectful to the dead children. You will look back on this, Cenk, and you'll wonder why did you, at the last minute, drag yourself into this. Drag yourself from the glorious victory of having been polite and respectful for the debate into becoming a shrieking, insulting maniac. I don't view that to be a victory. And you might reflect that you let yourself down. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You see, that's. Wait a minute, Piers. You've been really fair. I found it cathartic. I've defended you a lot. You found it cathartic. Okay. You have to listen to that. One thing you're not right about, Piers, one thing you're not right about, and I got this great message the other day. A woman sent this message in saying, if my children are in harm's way, I'd want somebody to be just as angry, as Cenk. Right. And just as livid and passionate to make sure we stop murdering children. That is not a thing you should be polite about and civil about. It's about time that we stop paying for the slaughter of children. But actually, here's the problem with that argument. That is the first principle all of America agrees to. Here's the problem with that argument. Sir Winston Churchill basically galvanized this great nation to defeat the Nazis by doing the complete opposite. He was like Jacob. He was an eloquent man who didn't resort to chivalry and childish, puerile insults, who didn't lose his shit every two minutes. He was a man who had a large whiskey and got the job done. Oh, really, Piers? Whilst disposing great British oratory. Because apparently I know British history better than you, Piers. And I just think you'll look back on the last five minutes of this, Cenk, and think, I lost my shit. Piers, the one thing that everybody remembers, No, no, no, no, Piers, you're totally incorrect. You are factually and empirically incorrect. The most famous speech of Winston Churchill is, "We shall fight on the beaches and we shall fight everywhere." Have you heard it? "We shall fight everywhere." Have you heard it? Have you heard it? Have you heard it? Have you heard it? And he was insistent that we fight against evil. Yes, have you heard the way he delivered it? That it does holocaust and that there's genocide. You know what he didn't do? But I hear from American media we should love genocide. You know what he did? We should love genocide. I agree with Churchill. We shall fight them on the beaches. We shall fight Israel and Washington. We shall fight them everywhere where they do damage and genocide and murder with our money. Cenk, I'm very glad you mentioned that speech, the greatest of Churchill's life, because if anybody now goes and Googles that speech, you will see he delivered it in completely the opposite way to the way you seem to remember. Because he wasn't interrupted by Israeli propaganda. And what he didn't say is Hitler is a prick. He didn't need to. He defeated him with the power of great old-fashioned British polite oratory. And I'm going to get Jacob to give you a lesson after all this in the art of British politeness. Because you can have a debate with somebody without resorting to childish insults. And I'm going to end this debate. You've actually reminded me. I don't want to mute you, but I will mute you. I'm going to end the debate with a little clip. This is when I interviewed Donald Trump in the Churchill war rooms in London a few years ago, and I presented him with a Churchill hat, hoping it would rub off on him. Let's take a look. -He was a great man, and he was a man that reacted so well under the gun, under fire, under pressure. And there aren't many people like that. I respect that greatly. -Is he a hero of yours? -I think so, yeah. I mean. I never liked to have heroes. I like to respect people. But certainly he would be right up there. He would be somebody that you would most respect. He would certainly be a hero. -He would like to present you with a Churchill hat. -Thank you. I never knew you had that kind of sensibility. That is sort of beautiful. Are you allowed to do this? He didn't do that. -I think he can do that. -He didn't do that. And he definitely didn't do that, right? I know that. Wow. -You want to try it? -I'll try it, you know? Let me try this on. -Please try it on. That would be great. -It's a little big. -We can get that. That's fantastic. -Let me see how that looks. I think Churchill. -So, Winston Trump. -I think Winston looked much better in this one. -You know what Churchill would say? He'd say, "Donald, you should support freedom and democracy and get on the side of the Ukrainians and stop flirting with an evil dictator." But we will leave it there. Gentlemen, I appreciate the debate. And, Cenk, go and have some chill pills and just calm down a bit. And go and watch that speech by Churchill. -Yeah, we should be civil together. -That's a good idea. That's what you guys were saying. -He delivered it like Jacob would. Anyway, I appreciate you all joining me. And, Jacob, now that you've taken on three of these great figures from American media, next time we're going to get nine of them. And we're going to try and work out how many collectively is needed for America to defeat Jacob Rees-Mogg in a debate. Thank you for joining me. -Thank you for having me. -I appreciate it. Well, don't forget, this week we're proudly launching the Uncensored Club. Ad-free episodes, extra content, early access, Q&As, and everything else you've asked for. There's a massive foundation of founding members discount available now, as is this interview with our censored favourite, Dave Smith, which our members will get first. -I'm not voting for a socialist. I'm not voting for a woke Democrat. And I'm not voting for a neocon. If there was a ballot, and on the ballot is Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong, at a certain point, I don't want to get into an argument about which one is worse than the other. I want to just. I want to reject the entire system. Don't launch a war of choice sold on lies on behalf of a foreign country, and then lose the war. Now, I'm not defending anything Putin or Assad did. They're both very bad guys. But. -If you had to be trapped on a desert island for a calendar year with one of the following, who would you choose? Adam Sosnick, Douglas Murray, or Natasha Hausdorff? -Geez, dude, that's such a. -The NBA's back on "Prize Picks." Pick a shootout in the West and a boards battle in the East. On "Prize Picks," you can make all the picks you want. All in the same app. And now, "Prize Picks" is available nationwide. So what are you waiting for? Download the "Prize Picks" app today and use code "Spotify" -- that's code "Spotify" -- to get $150 instantly in lineups if you win your first $5 lineup. "Prize Picks." Run your game. -Must be present in certain states. Visit prizepicks.com for restrictions and details. -With President Trump's approval rating in seemingly terminal decline and the Democrats expected to sweep the board in the midterms, one major question remains: Who will actually lead the Democratic Party into the next presidential election? A crowded field of potential candidates are jostling to profit from the Republican retreat, but no single charismatic talisman has seized the initiative. Gavin Newsom is saddled with the baggage of a dire record in California. AOC can fire up the base, but she terrifies the moderates. Mamdani can't run because she was born in Uganda. Kamala Harris is what she's Kamala Harris. If social media was a voting bloc, the nomination would shortly be going to a surprise challenger from a small county in rural Indiana. Jamie West is starting small. She's a Democratic candidate for Fayette County Council's District 4. But tons of millions of people across the world saw her interview with local television last week. -Parking's expensive. Driving's expensive. Going and have to face your elected leaders face-to-face is scary alone. I need help, you know? And, um, that's my opening statement. I'm a fighter, and you ought to vote for me. What is the one decision that I would make that might not be popular with Fayette County? -Right, that may be unpopular with some voters. -Unpopular with some voters. -But is in the best interest of the county. -Mm. Firing all Republicans. I wouldn't let them -- I mean. I don't even talk to them. I don't like them. There are good Republicans out there. But then there's these MAGAs who are just racist and. aren't very intelligent at all. -Say just a few last words to, um, to the voters. -Hmm. We have guns, too. -Well, joining me now is Jamie West, a Democratic candidate for Fayette County Council, Indiana. Alongside her will be the co-host of "The Verdict with Ted Cruz," Ben Ferguson. Well, welcome to both of you. Jamie West, your clips, as you know from that interview, went viral very quickly around the world. A lot of people -- I'm going to be completely straight with you. A lot of people assumed you might have had a drink before you did that, uh, interview. Did you? -I had a Coors Light. I had a beer. Mm-hmm. -What, one beer, or.? -I mean, maybe a couple. -How many beers did you have? -I was nervous, okay? -I get it. -I thought I was going to win with the full Republicans. -We've all had a drink when we're nervous. But just to be clear. -It's kind of. Jamie, here's your chance to be completely honest and transparent. How many beers did you have? -All right. Three. -Three beers. Okay, well, it's. -Three beers. -It's trebled in the last 30 seconds. Um, so do you accept. -What do you mean, say it, man? I had three beers, okay? -Okay, so do you accept you may have been a little intoxicated? -Not that intoxicated. But I do know what I'm talking about. -Okay, have you had any. -It's Indiana politics. Have you had any beers before? this interview no you're completely sober yep okay well look you said some very inflammatory things about republicans you wanted to fire them all you called them racist and dumb and said we have guns too is there anything you said whilst under the influence of your beers that you now with the benefit of hindsight maybe wish you hadn't said no i say it all the time i'm not friends with them i don't like them okay they voted for all of this that's happening and to our country or we have a constitutional crisis we have an illegal war going on i mean my next door neighbor just graduated high school just finished the crucible for the marines and now i'm afraid he's gonna go in this illegal war and die i mean i have every right to be angry and so is every american but you've got a you've got a republican on the panel against you today ben ferguson would you say that he's racist and dumb i don't know i never met the guy he is a republican so do you do you instinctively work for you actually my husband is a republican wow he's conservative he's a libertarian have you fired him yet no we don't talk about politics but i've got his vote oh you there you go okay ben ferguson i mean ben ferguson all right i've seen some candidates in my time jamie west is certainly unusual i think we can all agree on that she's admitted that she was loaded with beer the other night and the clips that went viral what's your view of miss west i gotta tell you miss west i actually have to give you credit for one thing i am now a huge advocate for candidates drinking before debates because then we might actually find out what they believe in like i can i can see the the glass half full of the glass half full of the glass half full of the glass half full or your big glass almost half full uh i also want to know like what size cores lights do they yeah it's got to be like 36 to 64 ounces like is it a keg stand and then you answer a political question i i i will say this i i appreciate your honesty i do think it is it is a bad moment when and this is what doesn't help this country is that when we have a society now where it's like if you're a republican i want to fire you without you know you're going to be a Republican you're going to be a Republican you're going to be a Republican knowing you talking to you understanding what you do i know some amazing civil servants especially at the local level if you're a trash collector is a great example should you be fired because you're republican if you're a police officer you said that you'd fire them all so i mean that's a dangerous precedent that every single time somebody gets elected at a local level the way you're describing it you want a clean house of every civil servant the dog collector the trash collector the people that go out there and deal with downed power lines and they're not going to go out and deal with downed power lines the people that cut trees and grass and do the grounds keeping the janitors i mean what janitor deserves to be fired because they may have voted for donald trump or another republican or just registers republican that is dangerous what they do in dictatorship countries jamie i think you're taking that a little bit out of context you don't understand fire them all indiana no but you said fire them all regardless the issue that you said what is they asked you the question i watched your interview they asked you very clearly like what is your hot take and you said fire all of them i don't like them i don't even talk to them i don't think they were i don't think a lot of americans understand that our politicians we pay their salary therefore we are their bosses we are our politicians bosses those are the ones that i meant to fire not the janitors not the united steel workers not the groceries not the butchers the politicians whose salaries we pay because we're their bosses that's not what you said i think now you're running for office you're realizing oh that was probably a really dumb thing to say seven or eight or 92 ounces deep of coors light like that's my real take on this take it as you want i said what i said fire the republican politicians you want me to okay okay so now it's just for politicians okay so if your husband who you says republican was elected official you'd fire him yeah he's not doing a good job you'd stay married to him so he's a threat to society but not in your house in my county fayette county indiana which is named after marquis de la fayette go france i love the revolution that you're all you're all yeah i'm for you and jamie when you said jamie jamie when you said we have guns too i mean how many guns do you have i own none my husband does though how many has he got a lot how many i don't know i don't i never made he's probably got seven or eight we don't talk about that either so your husband has eight guns so would you use him would you use his guns or what are you getting at i don't right what did you mean by we have guns too well when you get all these threats by maga i for the last 10 years maga has been sending me messages they threaten me to my face i mean they threaten to blow my head off i mean do you you made it clear just to be clear well hang on hang on just to be clear you said that the sheriff's nephew tried to blow your head off uh the sheriff who hates the the sheriff's nephew tried to blow your head off uh the sheriff who heads the the sheriff who heads the fiat county sheriff's office zach jones was told this and said i don't know jamie west she obviously doesn't know me i have five nieces and zero nephews i don't know what she's talking about i'm certain she has no idea what she's talking about either so he has the sheriff's uh office said that zach jones has no nephews did you not read the congressional news examiner union county this was the union county who's narrating next door to me sheriff's nephew they called him to verify and he said yeah i do have nephews okay because i didn't say i didn't specify like i just got to know if someone's trying to blow your head off and kill you is there a police report did you file a police report on this is there any documentation that you said never happened it was after a no king's protest he the sheriff sat there with me us the whole time i grew up with him and you know we're sharing stories about how we all grew up together and whatnot and he's sitting over there listening to people drive by threatening us he knows it happened i didn't go and report it to him because i i took a picture of his truck i mean what am i supposed to do what are you supposed to do go to the police you're sitting with the police i tell them can i ask you jamie jamie let me ask you go on his way jamie let me ask you what reaction have you had to your now infamous interview last week what's it been like for you oh my gosh i've been getting all of these reporters wanting interviews and you're besides my um local newspaper you're the first and only one thank you i have accepted it honestly why what have i done what have i done to deserve the scoop because it's hard to trust american media right now because of our current administration so you went british yeah so you don't trust the liberal media in america that hates trump i do somewhat the one that he's been trying to take over i mean steven colbert i mean out of curiosity if abc or nbc or cbs called you would you do that interview because they hate donald trump they all have got tried to get a hold of me cnn fox news nbc you're just the man here was it the be honest jamie was it was it my british accent be honest was it the english accent it was it was it was the accent it was the accent man jamie you did say you did say jamie buddy you've found better well jamie did say i don't talk about republicans i don't talk to them i don't like them i don't like them being around me this doesn't sit very easily with the fact you're married to one who lives with you i mean you sleep with the technically married we've been together about 14 years do you do i hate to be personal do you have sex with your husband come along well do you have sex every now and then every now and then you do so you you literally have sex with a republican he's a libertarian a conservative he's actually a libertarian who does he vote for he didn't vote for trump he's never voted for trump so he's not really a republican if there's a libertarian on the running for office he will vote for them you said there are good republicans out there can you name one here the union county sheriff is one of them yeah and there are some in my county my my county clerk you know because we are mostly rural republicans they're all republicans i'm the only damn running for county council do you think you're gonna win jamie or not do you think this publicity storm is gonna help a lot of people said that they've been voting for me and a lot of people wishing that they lived in connersville just so they could vote for me what are your three what are your kids of this are they old enough to know what's going on oh yeah they don't are they proud of mom i don't know man somewhat some are like i just wish you would lay low but what am i gonna do i've been fighting this fight for 10 years man i've been going to the state house to beg my paul the republican politicians who have been in control of indiana for 20 years not to take away our public funding our public schools our emergency services that we need i mean you look into the numbers right here hold on you said in an interview that if they didn't do what you wanted to do that the fire department was going to go away and then the fire department came out and said there's no issue with the fire department funding like they even said that you're making it up no they said that they don't know what's happening because honestly the republicans that's not the quote i read from the guy in the newspaper passed in 2025 they don't know what's happening the property tax bill everybody thought that their property taxes were going to get lower no that was only for the day all the data centers they want to build around here now they're the ones that are not paying the property taxes the richest companies in the world jamie let me ask you jamie if people are watching this who are in your local county and i'm sure the clips will get there um particularly your bombshell beer confession um if they if they watch these clips just give a direct appeal to the people of your county right now why should they vote for you tell them because i'm a fighter i will go to the state house and fight for you none of our none of our like local politicians went up there and told them like senate bill one is going to kill our schools and our libraries and our emergency services none of them are of the whole world kill none of them is it a delay kill it passed in 2025 it hasn't happened yet so when does it kick in it it started to happen in 2026 and okay so it's a secret kill all the numbers right here would you like me to read them all i mean fayette county it's going to be losing a lot of keg let's have it let's have a pint as they say over in the uk we'll go over the numbers here's the only thing missing from this interview right now is someone rocking out going tonight it's saturday night live like that's the only thing missing right now jamey jamey jamey serious question jamey jamey i think would you agree jamey that it's incumbent on politicians at all levels including at local county level that if you want to represent people you should always be completely honest do you agree with that yeah so let me just ask you a straight question and i want an honest answer did you have a sneaky beer before this interview tonight no not even one i did not not even one really yeah really my indiana coffee mug it's coffee yeah if you became a politician would you would you carry on drinking beer or would you give it up do you think i don't know why don't you ask p hagseth who is uh drinking whiskey as he's running an illegal war why don't you ask him that i don't think he is drinking whiskey pretty sure pete's not drinking and he made that very clear i think he's got a i think he's got a severe alcohol problem or something man anybody who would let an illegal war go on jamey let me ask you i'm calling the kettle black jamey you've been talking to ben ferguson for a while now you've got to know him he's a republican do you like him do you like him now i don't know the guy well you've been chatting to him for 20 minutes do you like him i'm having no duels with you could you imagine us all having a beer together come on over there's a cat there's a cat got itself back you know what jamie i reckon having a beer at your place would be great fun particularly if your republican husband's around i think it would be a comical evening and highly enjoyable i mean i grew up in a pub so i love beer um so if you've got plenty of beer and it sounds like you have why don't we all just rot around your place and have a party there you go come on over man i mean what do you want to say i think we'll leave it we'll leave it there a perfect way to leave jamie i appreciate you giving me the scoop thank you very much indeed and for staying sober for the interview so two ticks in the box there and for the invitation to come and have a few beers at your place thank you very much ben always good to see you good to see you i think i think after a few beers she'd warm to you you might be the first republican she'd actually like he's a very likable guy jamie very like that yeah guys thank you both very much that was highly entertaining have a good one pierce have a good one ben take care jamie all the best cheers cheers for a long time now we've been racking our brains about how we can bring you even more uncertainty uncensored without making our small team work 24 hours a day instead of the current 23 and with that lofty goal in mind we are thrilled to announce the uncensored club it's the new home of extra content which only you get to see you might have heard crying what in the hairy depths of harry hell is going on it was not intrinsically nasty can he put a curse on you i can't put on my brother he's a very good man plus that three episodes and exclusive insights as well as priority access to amas live events and big interviews you got me you can support the show that you love most or get the whole lot we know that you watch and listen to all of our shows for all sorts of different reasons and we've made sure there is something here for everybody the uncensored mission has always been to inform educate irritate and entertain by giving you every side of every story real honest opinions you might not find anywhere else you may disagree with my views some of our guests and our hosts do too but that's the point we're independent and nobody tells us what to say that sounds like you would join the club the nba's back on prize picks pick a shootout in the west and a boards battle in the east on prize picks you can make all the picks you want all in the same app and now prize picks is available nationwide so what are you waiting for download the prize picks app today and use code spotify that's code spotify to get 150 dollars instantly in lineups if you win your first five dollar lineup prize picks run your game must be present in certain states visit prizepicks.com for restrictions and details