Jack Harlow - Say Hello

You're listening to Song Exploder where musicians take apart their songs and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishikesh, your way. Jack Carlo is from Louisville, Kentucky and started performing and releasing music in 2015 when he was in high school. In 2020, he released his first album which went double platinum. He was nominated for a Grammy for Best Rap Performance. He's had multiple number one hits across his first three albums. He refers fourth album, Monica, which just came out in March, 2026. He switched things up dramatically. And I was curious how and why. How did someone who had so much success as a rapper approach a new way of making music? So for this episode, I spoke to Jack Carlo about the song "Say Hello", which is the closing track on Monica. "Say Hello", "Say Hello", "Say Hello", "Say Hello", "Say Hello", "Say Hello", "Say Hello". My name is Jack Carlo. I was working on a different album for two years after Jackman, my last one. And it was good, but I didn't think it was exciting or surprising. It just wasn't distinct enough. It also felt like something I'd done before, which repeating yourself was boring. And I was getting more and more frustrated and I was dreading going to the studio. As soon as recording becomes work, you're in trouble. Not that there's no work ethic involved. Of course, sometimes you have to grind it out. But when you're trying to get inspired and it feels like labor, it's something to take as a sign. So finally, I just took three weeks off. I remember talking about it with my engineer right before I took that three week break. Sort of having to reconcile it in front of him, almost a little embarrassed saying, "Yeah, man, I just got to think." He said it out loud for me. I was already thinking it, but he put it really well. He's like, "I think you just need to choose a North Star that is distinct and definitive." So I took a lot of walks. I think part of the reason I was dreading going to the studio is I had just moved to New York. I would look out the occasional window I might have in the studio, I'd go outside and say, "Wow, I'd rather be out here than be in there recording." And so I decided to think about, "What do I actually want to do? What am I listening to? What is my ear crave?" I've always been attracted to melody and I listen to a lot of melodic music. I find I prefer melodic music. I think there's something so timeless and emotional about melody. A lot of my early stuff had a lot more melody involved and then it's almost like I found my rap tone. And I was getting such a great response from it and it became something I could lean on so consistently that. I think I got further and further away from melody. But the genre of "Neal Soul" as a whole was super influential to me, just how pleasant it was. So I wanted something that in 20 years, I'll still like the sound of. About three years ago, I first called Wind of Acts, Orvid, a loopmaker from Norway. And there's a lot of loopmakers and hip-hop that are over in Europe that are almost faceless to the rest of the industry and just send loops through email to big name producers. So to me, he was another one of those and he was talented, but I didn't know much more about him. And he worked with my long-time friend and collaborator, Tufer Wom, who I grew up with. But he introduced me to Axel and brought him to Kentucky for the first time. And he was just from where I met and passed and we had a couple songs that we worked on together. And then sometime in 2024, my little brother, Clay Harlow, is a producer too. He's on the sub. And he became closer to Axel as well. And he asked could he bring Axel to a session? So Axel came around and we started to get to know each other and we started to realize there were parallels and our interests and our natures. And he and I bonded over R&B. We were attracted to similar melodies and sounds. So he became the clear go-to guy and executive producer for me. I could tell you a few of the rules that we followed. You know, I think rules are so wonderful to end up somewhere specific. I'd say the number one, when Axel first got to New York, the first thing I said after those three weeks of deliberating where I don't want to make anything with Braggadocio or overt egoism. You know, I want to make something that I think can age really well. And I was at the time in a mindset of ego is weighing down the quality of the music as it gets older. So I was interested in no Braggadocio. I was interested in only being melodic. So singing the whole time, no cursing. Curs words can be a crutch sometimes. They can also be exciting and add a punctuation to things. But that's not what I was looking for this time. I liked the challenge as a writer of not having any crutches. And then all the instruments we eventually decided had to be live except for the drums. The drums could be programmed to keep a hip hop. But you know, no sense coming out of the computer, the bass, the guitar, horn strings, everything had to be live. So some of the things we lived by and we knew we'd end up somewhere of the songs that made the album say hello is the earliest. I showed up to the studio and Axel played this beat. Made up at the time of Germain Paul's bass notes, Axel on Rhodes. And he had done the drums as well. And he just played me the beat. I just sat there with shades on for 20 minutes listening to it, just steeping myself in it. You know, I was very moody in these sessions. I think the stakes felt high to me. I just scrapped an album and I cared a lot about how this was going to end up. And I don't think moodyness is the best response, but I'm a naturally moody person. And sometimes I walk in there and just I just need a second to warm up socially. And this is one of those days where I walked into a little moody and sometimes I just want to listen to the beat. I don't want to talk about what I think of it or how I got made. I just want to hear it for a while. And I think this is one of those days where I just wanted to let it play. But I immediately was like, all this feels slumbillage, this feels outcast, this just feels like part of the music I love. And it felt very in line with the reason I started this project is all. And so I knew as soon as I heard it, I was like, okay, there's something here. And then we started playing with melodies. The first few weeks at this album when we were still figuring out what it was, I was recording on almost everything he played because I didn't want to be too rigid about what I thought it should be or how I wanted it to sound. Despite the moodyness I was describing, there was a general optimism and openness to everything I was hearing because I just wanted to see where we might land. And we could filter it later. We can decide where we're going later. But this was still when I was in a zone of, let's try it. I mean, a lot of these songs were made just with taking the S-M7 out, holding it in my hand and just doing what feels good, which was a relatively new process for me. Something that I've been avoiding the last few years. So, statement first, lyrics first, that I think I've missed out or just neglected the improvisational nature of just playing with melody and making it nonsensical to start. And that's how this song started. It was kind of nonsensical and just finding a melody that felt good. I would lay down a melody for four bars that I really liked and I would say, while I'm still flowing, let me move on to a different melody. All different melodies of just word vomit. And sometimes while you're scatting the melody, a word will come to you. Sometimes you find words that lock right into place. And that's when it feels really good. You don't feel like you're compromising. You feel like it's you in the universe cooking something up. Maybe I'll get at you when my life could slow. The first line, maybe I'll get at you when my life gets slow. As soon as I said that, I was like, okay, I kind of know what this could be about because I've expressed that sentiment before or at least thought that sentiment in my head. This doesn't have to be a right now thing, but maybe when things slow down and roll along. And maybe it won't. It's not just my decision. It's not just me saying when things slow down for me, I'll be available for you. It's maybe you'll be available. Maybe I will. Maybe the stars will align is that sentiment. And I'll be walking by the place Tuesday. It felt like a mosaic of memories. I feel like I've had a good amount of stopping starts with people that it wasn't negative. It didn't end in ugly way. But sometimes you begin something and the timing isn't right. But there's still a positive feeling. You still like something about them. You're not dumping them. They're not dumping you. It's just, huh, this doesn't seem to make sense for us right now. now. Up to this point, my vocal has been this singular laid back. Sometimes monotonous rap vocal. And you know, I didn't want to just make new music. I wanted to be heard in a way I've never been heard. And it thrills me that a few of these songs people have to ask is that you, because I think it's exciting to access new parts of your voice and stretch yourself. And my head, there's only so many sweet spots in my voice. And when I find the sweet spot, whatever notes those are, whatever octave it is, that's what I can accomplish on this song. And you know, this album was not about showing people how good of a singer I am. It was about showing people my choice and curation. I'm not looking to show people, oh my God, he's actually an incredible singer. I'm looking to show people I can make music that sounds really good. And whatever way I get there is the best way I get there. But I wanted to make something that was less about my talent being on display and more of my taste. I mean, I remember earlier in my career wanting to make a commercial splash and almost looking down on stuff that wasn't taking enough of a risk to be commercial. So now I find myself on the other end of the pendulum saying, well, I'm more interested in making this type of music right now. There's things I'm still driven by. There's things I'm still insecure about. You know, I still have a status anxiety from time to time, like anyone that's trying to climb. I would love to catch a smash of it as um, but that's not why I made it. More with Jack Harlow after this. I have a new album of my own coming out on April 24th. It's been about 15 years since I last put out a full length. And this is the first one that'll be out under my own name, where she case her way. I started making song explode or when I was feeling lost in my own music career. And then for over a decade, I've gotten to have these incredible conversations about the process of making music, talking to other artists. And it may be completely rethink my relationship to music and my way of writing songs. And this album is the product of all of that. It features contributions from some of my favorite artists, including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast, like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby, Vagabon, Fen Lilly, and the producer Phil Weinrope. I'm going to be on tour playing in cities across the US starting in April. And I'm trying to bring the spirit of the podcast with me. So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city. Like Adam Scott, Simeen Nasrat, Jason Manzucis, Josh Malina, Minjin Lee, Ken Jennings, John Roderick, Austin Cleon, and more. They're all going to be my conversation partners on stage. And then I'll play with my band. The album is called in the last hour of light. And the first couple of songs are out now. You can listen to the music and get tickets for the shows on my website, rishikesh.co. Or just go to songexploder.net/live. That's songexploder.net/live. Thanks. So like I said, I come up with all these melodies without troubling myself at all about the words. And then we go into puzzle piece mode and say, cool, let's actually do some of the work, the labor of piece in the skin. I know a lot of artists hate the lyrics part. You know, that's why so many artists work with writers because they want all of music. They want their whole career to be instinct. And I relate to that, but I enjoy language enough that I enjoy the puzzle piecing of lyrics and it does get frustrating sometimes, but I like both sides. I'll be understanding if you change your name. If you get married, I get it. Maybe you prefer to live a life you know. My career, I end up meeting women that they live a life that is totally unlike mine and maybe is a little slower and more stable. And it's me essentially saying, maybe you would actually enjoy living the life that is familiar to you and is more conventional than mine. And maybe that is what's best for you. I definitely zeroed in on a poignant acceptance and melancholy over change and how things change and you know, the nostalgia of looking back on this time you shared with somebody, but except in it. It's a thing of the past and who knows what the future holds. The emotion got more specific and it gave all the musicians something to work with. Your main place is a six string bass. And you would lay foundational stuff and then later come back and play something interactive on top of it. And then Robert Glassford's plan, all that piano. Robert and I had worked on some music before that never came out. So I brought him into the fold, but I'm such a minimalist by nature that sometimes I had to force myself to give things these richer details. And a lot of it was so jazzy that I had to grow used to it. So the maximalism, vers minimalism was a huge thing with this song and there was a lot of conflict between me and Axel over how much of this busy piano we were going to keep. Because I definitely wanted Robert to make it a more rich, dynamic song. You know, we didn't want it to be this loop that had no moments of life. I think it's good to have moments in a song that occur once as opposed to it looping like a machine, but it was definitely us having to find a balance because you know, at the end of the day, it was Axel's job to get a certain level of complexity and musicality that was important to him across the line. But my requirement I issued to him was I enjoy minimalism. I enjoy simple, palatable music. And at the same time, I want to be pushed out of my comfort zone. So it really came down to that test for him of get as much complexity as you can across the line here without it disturbing my enjoyment. And that was his, in a lot of ways that sums up his role for this album, to be honest. A fellow named Stefan Clement came in during post-production and laced a good set of these songs with beautiful trumpet. My voice is so limited and my range is so limited and you know, I don't think of myself as a very dynamic singer. I was looking for any opportunity to lift some of my melodies and make them breezier. Ravenlin Nay is one of the best singers of our generation in my opinion. I'm a wrestler at an open mic in Atlanta in 2017 and was blown away at her voice even back then. I booked her for the gazebo festival at through in Louisville in 2024 so we actually met at the festival. Sometimes you meet artists and you're like cool there in their own world. Like there's not going to be a lot of synergy but sometimes you meet somebody and you're like, I don't know, there's an understanding here. And I think we had that really early. There was a warmth between us. I came to New York and we hung out and talked about life and music and became friends in a real way. And so by the time I was looking for some vocals, I felt like an organic way to stamp our friendship to be honest. And so she came to the electric lady and laid them right in front of me. That's a melody she came up with on the spot and then in Prop 2, she was like, why don't you sing this with me? And so you'll hear she and I started singing together. [Music] There are these bird calls and nature sounds in the music. And I was wondering where did that come from? This is one of those things that was there from the beginning. It was part of the beat. And I love the park. And I wouldn't even call myself a nature guy. I don't like going camping. I don't care to go on hikes really. I'm not Mr. Nature. But I do like going to the park. And I like how it makes me feel. And I think that captured that and it captured how it feels to be outside in New York. It just felt right. You don't always know how things are going to end. But I hate to end anything on bad terms. I'd like for everything to end in a way that allows us to greet each other when we see each other. It doesn't mean we have to go on another date. It doesn't mean we have to rekindle. But it would be nice if we can say hello to each other. You should be like, hey, how you doing? Maybe you can give you a hug. And I think there's optimism to it, too. I as a person believe in. I don't know if there's a song that sums up the theme of the album more than this song to me, actually. There's something obscure about it. There's something more vague and impressionistic about it. I don't know if I've accomplished in some of my other work. I love the way we just kind of captured this loose blurry feeling in a bottle. And now here's Say Hello by Jack Harlow and its entirety. One day I'll be walking by the place you stay. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ah. Maybe I'll get at you while my life can slow. I'll be understanding if it changed so many. I'm gonna see you in the shape of you. I'll visit you when the day comes. I'm giving up control. I'm giving up control of you. You know I want you bad, you know I come running bad. Sometimes I listen to what you say to me. My principles are so painful. I'll be understanding if you change your pain Maybe you prefer to live a life you know And they'll be walking out of places to stay (Music) (Music) Maybe I'll get out of your mind my life can't stop I'll be understanding if you change your pain Maybe you prefer to live a life you know And they'll be walking out of places to stay (Music) (Music) (Music) (Music) Go to songexploder.net to learn more You'll find links to buy or stream say hello This episode was produced by me, Craig Ely, Mary Dolan, and Kathleen Smith with production assistance from Tiger Biscope The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma and I made the show's theme music and logo Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX A network of independent listener supported artist-owned podcasts You can learn more about our shows at radiotopia.fm And if you'd like to hear more from me subscribe to my newsletter You can find a link to it on the songexploder website You can also get a songexploder t-shirt at songexploder.net/shirt I'm Rishikesh Herway Thanks for listening (Music)