It’s Time to Face Your Financial Reality

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. It's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Rachel Cruz, taking your calls about your life and your money. So give us a call. Jennifer has done that. Jennifer is in Las Vegas, Nevada, on the line right now. Hey, Jennifer, how can we help today? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. Okay. So basically, I wanted to get some advice. I thought I was doing pretty good financially. I don't follow the baby steps or do any of that. But I watch you guys, and I know it's good, solid advice that you guys give. But now that I'm getting older, I realize that I don't know. I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to retire. How old are you? I am 53 years old. And my husband is about the same. He's 52, almost 53. And we bought a house probably five years ago. And, you know, that was our dream. And we had a lot of debt, but we've been plugging away. And we were almost there. Like, to me, I was like, Hey, I'm almost there. I have, you know, I have a little bit left. I like six more months left on a car payment. Um, I have maybe one credit card that I have like a couple hundred bucks on. So that's like almost done. And, uh, then just recently my husband had an issue with his teeth. Like we've always known that he, I mean, he's always had like kind of issues with his teeth, but, um, we just kind of put it off, put it off. Um, And so finally it was really bothering him. He went to the dentist. They're like, sorry, buddy. We, we've got to get rid of them. Because they're all of them, all of them. They're just, oh my gosh, how much did that cost? So it was about 40 grand with like root canals and like the whole deal. No, no, no, no. They just took all his teeth out. And so $40,000, was that your wake up call financially of realizing, oh my gosh. We don't. Yeah. And the hard part is you're. Yeah. You're like 53 and it's like the hourglass sands you're, you're seeing them running out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And I mean, like to me, health is sometimes it's a little bit more important than just how many things you have and collected, you know? Sure. Yes. And so we thought about it for a while and we, we kind of knew it was coming, but we kept putting it off, you know? Well, I mean, let's be, let's be honest, the, the, the dental thing in the health part of this. You're right. Like there are certain things that take precedent and it's like, if it's healthy, you want to lean all the way in, but that wasn't the cause of what you're feeling now. That was one of the many dominoes that started tipping over. And when you have, you know, 10 or 12 dominoes in a row, you feel the weight of all of those tipping over on you. And so I think that's, what's taken place into your own point. It sounds like it's kind of just been years, maybe even decades of kind of knowing what you need to do, but not leaning into it. And I think that's what you're feeling right now. Right. Now. Yeah, I, I feel that, you know, because, and the thing is I'm, I've always been the one in the marriage who's taking care of all the financial stuff, you know, paying the bills, all, you know, all, all that kind of stuff. And we've always been on the same page. It's not, but where is it left you? Where are you guys today? Like, what's the picture? Yeah. How much do you have in retirement? Okay. So this is the sad part. Um, I have an IRA and I have a Roth and I have. A savings account, all of them all together are about 24,000. Okay. And that's it. What about him? He has a, he, where he works, he just, um, he just been there for five years. He just hit his five-year mark where he's been working. And so he is eligible for the pension. Okay. But I don't, I don't know what that's going to be. You know what I mean? Like, sure. From what he tells me, the other money saved, so, but basically what you're telling me is he got saved by this pension because there's nothing else there. That's what I took away from what you just said. Yeah. Because we've always put everything together. So like, yeah, the IRA and I mean, yeah, the, um, the retirement, it's like, it's under my name, but it's both of ours. The total is 24,000 for all of you between for the, both of you between IRA, Roth and savings. Okay. So how much do you guys make a year? Jennifer? We, so he just got a raise. Um, so now between the, both of us, we both make the same amount, about 50,000. 100,000 a year. Okay. So 100,000 total. And how much consumer debt do you have? Um, other than like my car and this new loan, everything, everything. Um, I'm going to say it's about, let's see, um, Jennifer, I want to call out something here because this is going to help you off of this call. Um, what you're doing on this call is I think what you've done for the last. Uh, for your working career from age 20, probably when you got your first major job until now, age 52, 53 is you look at something and your first instinct is, Ooh, this might be kind of bad. And so instead of looking at what it is, you kind of say, Oh, well, it's not that bad. We just did this. And you kind of cover up the negative thing with the, the, the, the most recent positive. Oh, it's not that bad. I mean, after all, we did just go out to eat last night. Oh, that's not that bad. After all, I did just get a raise. Oh, that's not right. And so even with the questions that Rachel and I are trying to get you to answer, we can't get the answers because you're trying to cover it up. Now's the time, like put the chips on the table so we can help you. How much is the debt? Let's just say it. Well, now it's about 43,000. Okay. And that's between car credit card, dental loan, anything else? Student loan, HELOC, anything else? No. So you use some money that you had saved for the dental procedure because you told us that was $40,000. No, that it was, that was all in $40,000. That's how much the dentist quoted us. That's how much the loan was for. Yes. Okay. But no, we didn't, we didn't tap into our savings account. Okay. So how do you have $43,000 of debt? Um, well it's 40 for the dentist, it's $3,000 for another, uh, dental bill for me. And then, um, I have a consumer debt. It's about a thousand. What about the car? What about the car? Oh, the car. I'm sorry. The car is 3,000 for the car. Okay. What about the credit cards? No, that's it. The credit cards I owe, credit cards I owe 700 on one and I owe 300 on another. Okay. So let's really, really, can we just, can we level set for a second that what you've been doing is not worked? Do you agree? I mean, it, I mean, we're not like homeless, but yeah, I know. Hold on. Hold on. I mean, I think it's, it's the standard because the standard is not homelessness. That's not the bar that we're trying to beat in life. The bar that we're trying to be is your best self and feeling like when you go to work nine to five and sacrifice all that time and effort that you're actually building something. That's. I don't want to just, I love you, Jennifer. If you're in front of me, I think I would just grab your shoulders and shake it and be like, Jennifer, Jennifer, you got, you got about, you got a solid 15 years left. Let's, let's move. Let's do some stuff, right? Let's do some stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And don't sugarcoat it. Don't sugarcoat this anymore. You know, we're not here to judge you. We're here to be your friend. We got to put you on a plan to get you out of mediocrity into a thriving situation financially, where you're not having to cover up anything that it's like, this is what it is. And I'm proud of my situation. So, um, Jeffrey, if you stay on the line, Christian's going to pick up, we're gonna give you total money make over the book. Cause what we're going to start to do is we're gonna start to pay off this debt, starting with the credit card. You're going to go down the list. We're going to save some of this money, some of this money in savings that you have, that's not invested. It's gonna be thrown at the debt and you're going to go through the baby steps at the beginning of the call. She said, I don't really do the baby steps. Well, now you do. I kind of feel like you should, you know, just try something new, Jennifer, like sands, like sands through the hourglass, right? So are the days of our lives. As your business grows, everything becomes more complex. There was a time when Ramsey solutions had too many disconnected systems and not enough visibility across the business. We wasted too much time chasing information instead of making decisions. That's why we got NetSuite NetSuite brings your financials, inventory, CRM, and more together. One place more than 44,000 businesses run on NetSuite, including Ramsey. And now they're taking the next step with NetSuite next, making it easier to put AI to work across your entire business. NetSuite next helps you make the most of your time automating routine work like forecasting demand and following up on overdue accounts with NetSuite. Next AI is built into everything you do so you can ask it questions just like when you're talking to a member of your team. And right now, you can. try NetSuite Next for free. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.ai slash Ramsey. That's netsuite.ai slash Ramsey. Well, back to the phone lines where we have Andre in Los Angeles, California. Andre, you are on the line, buddy. Hi, guys. How are you doing? Doing great. How can we help? So I had a question. I'm a bit worried about my dad and the way that he uses his money. I'm looking to get married maybe middle of next year, and I'm just kind of worried about his financial habits. And so I want to have a conversation with him about it, but I don't know how to go about it. What are the habits you're seeing that you're concerned about? What's he doing? So just to give some context, my mom is no longer around. So he, for example, he does not cook for himself. He orders out a lot. He eats lunch. He buys lunch every day. He buys dinner every day. And sometimes it's takeout. Sometimes it's delivery. It's just a lot of money on food overall on top of, you know, he's got a mortgage. He's got other expenses as well. Do you know how much he makes? Andre, do you have a pretty good grasp of what's going on, or it's just more of a feeling and you're seeing a pattern happen that you're nervous about? Well, I know he can sustain himself. I just think that maybe the money that he makes can be allocated towards other places as well. But I think for the average person, he's spending like a little more than the ideal. Is it mostly the money that's bothering you, or is it just the unhealthfulness of kind of the way his lifestyle is looking? Or is it both? It's a bit of both, actually. And how old are you? I'm 23. 23. Okay. And are you living with him? Are you home? Or are you on your own? Yeah, I live at home with him. Yeah. And is this new behavior? You said your mom's not in the picture. Did they get divorced? Like, did something trigger this behavior that you're like, man, this is new. This is unhealthy. This is not good for his money. No, she passed away. I'm coming on five years now in December. I'm sorry. And so, thank you. You know, so I guess to him, it's like, well, I have no one to cook for me. So my only option is to, you know, buy food. Yeah. And how much does he make a year? Do you know? Maybe like 100, 110. Okay. And has he complained? Has he complained about money to you in general, about not being able to do X, Y, and Z, and I don't have enough for retirement or anything? Is there any other, anything that he's worried about? He has mentioned about like money strains before. So he's got the mortgage. He's got a car payment on a car that he rarely uses, which even to this day, I'm still asking myself, like, why'd you buy that car if you don't even use it? Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. So it's these, it's these small habits that you feel like are adding up and you want his money to be best used for him not being wasted, basically. Is that, is that your main question? Yeah, that's kind of about it. You know, when I hear what you're saying, I think there's a lot of grief that's at work and what you're seeing, it sounds like, oh, you know, mom is gone. She used to cook the meals and he never figured out how to start doing that on his own. And you're there like watching firsthand, like, dude, this is draining your money very, very much. There's a car that nobody's using anymore, but we haven't sold it. We haven't gotten rid of it. Those sorts of things. I might, Andre, approach this from that side of it more so than the financial side of it and just say, gosh, dad, I'm noticing some things and you know, what would really make me like happy? I miss mom cooking. And I feel like I would love for us to just make some meals together a couple of times a week. And it would make me feel a lot better. Would you do that with me? And I think that that's something that both of us would love to do. And I think that that's something that both of you can benefit from without attacking this from like, hey, dad, you're spending too much money on going out to eat. Because I really don't think that's the root of this problem. I think it's a grief thing and a gender roles thing that he's just missing his wife cooking the meals. Yeah. And there's a bigger picture to it, too, of, you know, it's not the delivery food stuff that's going to probably like take them out. Probably, probably not. But long term of you saying to him that I want to I want to see you thrive. I mean, you're coming up on how old is he? Is he in his 60s? He he's 58. 58. Okay. He says he wants to retire within the next few years. He's a business. Okay, great. So I think you can just say, Hey, dad, I know that this is coming up timeline wise. And I would love for I and you could say I'm happy to do it with you. I would love just to look at some of your expenses. I just wonder if you can actually put a little bit more away every month. That would really accelerate where you want to be in five years. And we can look at some expenses and what those could be right. And I'm sure food will be a glaring option. The car payment will be a glaring option, right? And so it's more of a discussion and a suggestion for something bigger, right? As Jade's talking, let's solve and let's press into the grief. Let's solve for in five years, right? If you kind of just nitpick every little thing for him, especially as his son, he's probably gonna be like, what are you talking about? The powdered butt syndrome. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Um, so I would go at it more from those angles than dad, you're spending too much on Uber Eats. How do you think he would respond to that? What Rachel said? I have tried bringing it up to him. But I think since I'm the youngest of his three kids, he kind of looks at me like, I mean, I'm sure he respects me as an adult. But I think he I have two older brothers. So I think he would make it better from them. But I want to get better having those conversations with him. I mean, there is a piece of this Andre, we touched on we said it quickly, but like that powdered butt syndrome that just that feeling of Hey, I, I was here when you came out of the womb, I changed your diapers, you don't know more than me about this. That really and it's not even a pride thing. It's just like, it is what it is what it is. And so don't take that personally, you'll probably feel the same way with your kids when the time comes. I just think it's it's very hard to bridge that gap and do what it is that you're trying to do. I think that if you can just say things to him that are more curious, instead of you trying to say you need to do this, that could help that could help you open up the conversation, not so much that he'll have the conversation with you, but you never know what he'll go back and think about. And you know, start putting in place. So if you're if you just say out of curiosity, Dad, are you still planning to retire in the next five years? Okay, I was just thinking about making you know, I was just thinking about making sure that you have everything ready. Oh, okay, cool. You know, and just say things out of curiosity, not telling him that could really help. And part of becoming an adult is realizing that you can't change people. So you may get to the end of all of this, which is a very real reality that he's just not going to listen. And so you have you have to be okay with that as well, right? That the that you saying these things is out of your own control. And it can't be hung on the hat of like, this is going to change them. And if I say it this way, then he'll for sure get it all of it, right? Like, I think there's wise ways to go about it. But at the end of the day, too, I mean, and this is true for for adult kids to parents, parents to kids, friends to friends, I mean, all of it that you just, if you have an opinion about something, yes, and you see someone who may be hurting, right? And you're like, I want to be able to help them. And you present them with what you think is the solution. God willing, they hear it. And what a gift that would be that you change course. But then there's also that really harsh reality that at the end of the day, they may not. And it's not up to you to save them either. Like, you know, at the end of the day, too. So it's, it gets so it gets so messy. But I so appreciate, Andre, your, your heart for your dad, you know, you see, you see him and you're like, man, it's so bad. And I think you're right to Jade of, it goes deeper than just the food delivery. It's like he's hurting. He's probably hurting. I think there's some grief there. And I think in those moments, the best thing you can do is kind of lead by example. Like I said, whether it's the meals being like, man, I really miss mom's cooking, I would love to cook some of the food that she used to cook for us. Like, I feel like that'd be it'd be really good for me if you do that with me. Even, you know, I feel a little stuck in a couple areas ever since mom died. I think I'm going to start seeing somebody, you know, yes, saying those things out loud, instead of keeping them to ourselves. Yeah, it really does help the people around us go, Oh, gosh, I, okay, that's not so bad that I'm feeling that way. Or maybe I need to speak to somebody. So there's some healing in it. Yeah, there really, really is. So anyway, we're pulling for you, Andre, like, this is this is something that's going to take some time and you're a good kid. But to Rachel's point, we can't always change the people we love. 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ramsay principles so you will get an answer the exact same way you get an answer when you get an answer the same way that you would get it if you were to call into the show go ahead and ask your question today at ramsay solutions.com or you can just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or youtube all right candy is in arkansas hey candy how can we help today hey so we recently sold our farm and our cows and it's a good bit of money you know for us and we actually closed on the next week but uh we sold our cows and i have my 401k with edward jones so we went to the guy that i used for that and we opened up a money market account and uh we we talked about when we closed next week you know putting that money in the money market account and because i told him i really don't know that much about you know the the market so i don't want to put our money somewhere we're going to lose it are you going to lose it i'm going to lose it i'm going to lose it are you planning on using that money for anything in the in the near future to buy more land or to we're going to use yes we're going to use part of it to buy land and build another house we we built our last house we just had it blacked in we did the rest of it so that's what we plan to do again um but he was talking about um putting money in in several different banks and cds and staggering you know the maturity of them and i just want to make sure um the land we sold for 1.6 million and we sold our cows for 102 000 so 1.7 million how much will of that will you use for the new land in the build um i would guess probably 500 000 because we're just going to buy a little a little bit of land because we had so much land it was just too much okay gotcha so you'll have 1.2 left after that project's complete right okay and how old are you candy i'm 60 my husband's 65 60 i'm gonna try to i'm gonna work my last year and a half you know so i can retire at 62 yep that's great and how much do you guys have in retirement now um i have like 60 000 in my 401k he he doesn't have a 401k or anything nothing for retirement so this is would this be your retirement would you say one point two which you guys will live off of yes and he draws social security i think like 1200 a month okay and then he draws an annuity for 700 a month till because he had he had a kidney disease and so when we put it over into that day he'll draw it for a lifetime till he till he passes away and then but it won't continue after he passes you won't receive that benefit no no i would in the first 20 years if he passes away you know i'll do it up to 20 years and then after that it will stop but he'll draw it for his lifetime okay um i want to go back to something you said that i thought was interesting so you have the money from the sale of all of this and you were saying that your accountant or your is it an accountant your tax professional who is this person that is separating all this money for you he's the guy that we that i use for my 401k here where i work he works at edward jones okay so we just went to him now why did he say that he was putting in all that those different accounts is he trying to like make sure you've got fdic coverage so he's just like limiting it at 250 per account is that what he's doing yes okay um and what's the horizon on buying the the new place the new land in the new house i don't know it's kind of um we've been looking for land and it's kind of hard to find it yeah but the yeah the house that we built that we sold we're gonna rent it from him um for like 200 a month for the first year 500 a month for the second year and then it will go to regular rent if we're still there the third year so you know we're not just like in a in a rush to have to do it sure sure which is good i think that's smart to to have some patience for sure um so candy if i were you um i mean yeah you're 60 hasn't 65 i understand you're a little nervous about putting money in the market i would not put any money in the market that you're going to use to buy this land and build this home so i would not touch 500 000 of it i mean i would keep that where you want to if you want to do cds you can or a high yield savings account a money market account uh but the rest of the 1.2 i would highly consider that i would not put any money in the market that you're going to use so i think it's important to consider what your options are here and the fear of the market i would want you to to research i want you to do this yourself because we can sit here and tell you and talk through it um but i want you to look at how the market has performed and you will see some down months in 2026 you're going to see some up months you're gonna you're gonna see it all but it's around the average right now is probably 14 percent in 2026 and so when you look and again when you invest you want it to be for five years or longer so that it can the ups and downs can can you know equal out and then hopefully it's continuing to grow and so just the power of the interest rate is really important candy if you keep this money 1.2 million in cds it's going to grow at about four percent okay so in five years that'll be that 1.2 really just grows to about 1.4 but if you have invested it and not in like a single stock okay when i say investment i'm talking about a mutual fund or an index fund and so it's spread out over 90 to 200 companies or if it's the s p 500 it's 500 companies right like it's it's you're putting your money in a lot okay not just a single stock and hundreds of stocks literally and on app and i just plugged it in so at 11 which again the past couple years have been way higher than that not every year will be like that but 11 for the past couple years is a little bit of a conservative number to use it would grow to over two million dollars so wow so that would be in five years in five years and then if you just want to do rough math that money will double every seven years so if you didn't touch it which i know you might because this is what you guys are going to live off of but in seven years that 1.2 is 2.4 and then so on and so forth so the growth that you guys can get and live off of uh is something that i i would highly highly consider and see what's going to happen in the future if you're going to be investing in cds and you know things like annuities and all of that they're just very conservative um i mean i would say quote unquote safe but they suck as an investment like your money could be doing so much more and i know that probably isn't gonna change your mind completely but i want you to talk to your advisor and if he continues to tell you to put in cds i would look for a smart investor pro you can find one of those on ramsey solutions.com because these are trusted people that are in this world of investing and and there's something powerful about saying yeah you're you know you're a young 60 candy young 60 You're a young 60. You're not 85. If you were 85 and you're like, I'm scared to death, I'd be like, girl, do what you got to do to sleep well and, you know, right off into the sunset. But you still got some years ahead of you. A lot of years. That this money could be working for you and for it just to sit in CDs. Yeah. And I mean, I feel like. Go ahead, Candy. I think the reason he suggested CDs was because of us. We were like, you know, we're not ready to put it into anything because we don't really know what we want to do or put it in, you know, was just unsure. So that's the reason he suggested CDs. And that would be the right thing to do. I mean, he shouldn't invest you in something you've said no to or don't understand. And so I think I can respect why he did that. But let this be the jumping off point for you guys to really dig in and even sit down with him or like we said, another smart investor pro and just say, help me understand. Because I do know that. I'm missing out on returns and I don't want to keep missing out, but I want to understand it. I don't want to just get in because the people that I listen to the radio told me to or because, you know, whatever his name is, because Bob told you to. And it is scary. I mean, if you're watching the news and, you know, Obama ran and it's like, oh, my gosh, the market's got right. I mean, like, it's just like it can it can seem scary. And that's the frustrating thing is if you're if your investment advice is coming from the news, either side of the aisle. Yeah, absolutely. You're not getting you're not getting the the the win. They don't they don't promote that because it doesn't give ratings. What gives ratings is scared doom and gloom moments that they can point the finger and blame the person across the aisle. So you have to really look at the facts when it comes to this. And it is so much more positive than I think you realize, Candy. But I want you to do that research and figure it out and ask good questions. And hopefully he has the heart of a teacher. And I think you can do that. they're going to be able to offer you would be limited anyway i do know that they own it 100 and we also know that's good that they own it 100 but we also know that you don't have any money to buy this 100 so and honestly i was kind of hesitant you know about it it just seems like such a good deal and not that they would be mad if i if i turned it down or anything like that i just wanted to look into it yeah no that's totally fair no i so appreciate you calling and and asking the question because um families do this a lot we get this call a lot that um you know a grandmother or an aunt and uncle a parent and they have this home and they want to they want their child their niece or nephew their granddaughter to buy it and you know and and again i think it's because it's that family tie it feels like okay i'll get a better deal with this family and just because it's a good deal doesn't mean it's a good deal for you right and so you really do have to separate and take the emotion out of it to think golly am i gonna miss out there's gonna be other deals there there there's going to be other houses that you can buy and that may not even be the house you want well that's what i was gonna say is like that's that's the whole thing is if if they had not come to him and said hey we might have a deal for you i i don't think that he was like you want to know what one day i want to buy a house you know whose house would be great my aunt and uncles that's the house i want to buy yes that probably wasn't on his list of things to do it just presented itself and it was like oh this is in front of me maybe i'll buy it and then i'll buy it and then i'll buy it and then i'll buy it that's right exactly and that's how these deals happen and for a lot of people they walk right into them and then they get two years in and they're like oh my gosh i have no money and then if you're the seller financing and you lose your job then you can't pay the mortgage that month and then you have to go to aunt and uncle yeah and say sorry you know and if they had a bad situation which doesn't sound like they do i mean it just it just can be a domino effect that's not clean and the cleaner something is the more peace agree there's going to be there's going to be more like that and then you're going to be like okay i'm going to be like i'm going to be like oh my gosh i don't want you to own a home like that is part of the baby steps like we want you in the in the market but not when you're broke yeah and you have no money broke people don't need to be owning homes because oh my gosh like it is so expensive it is so expensive to keep up with it and there's time you know i think the most recent data said that people are not buying homes until their 40s like that's when they're making that first purchase and so i think that's i think that's okay you know it's very different from what we're used to um because real estate's just more expensive now it's for people but i think it's okay you know i tell people all the time sam and i waited 10 years to buy our first house and we're still here and you're going to be okay we're going to be okay i know it's going to happen and the house doesn't fix your problem so if you really are paycheck to paycheck you don't have savings you have a lot of debt owning a home is not going to make your situation better no it's not it's really really not and so have the patience have the patience which may take you longer than it did six years ago but it is so worth it to have that peace of mind hey george camel here a few years ago someone stole my identity and let me tell you that is not a quick fix it takes hours on the phone piles of paperwork and a whole lot of stress trying to untangle the mess and even after that there's this nagging paranoia because your information is already out there and the truth is you can do all the right things and still become a victim that's how common identity theft is and that's why i'm glad i had zander's identity theft protection when my identity was stolen their team stepped in right away they were monitoring my information and caught the issue and their u.s-based recovery specialists helped handle the calls the paperwork the cleanup so i didn't have to do it all on my own zander also includes up to two million dollars in stolen funds and expense reimbursement and with the family plan your kids are covered for free you work too hard to let identity theft steal your time your money and your peace of mind so go to zander.com to enroll or call 800-356-4282 welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio we're going to go right back to the phone lines where we have nicole who's in portland oregon hey nicole how can rachel and i help today hi i've spent like the last minute just jotting down notes and stuff because i know that i'm going to be a jumble mouth but um right now the biggest thing that i am looking crazy about is my husband and i um last year he was making over a hundred thousand dollars and we lived you know a somewhat cushiony life like we had our finances you know we lived within our means like if we wanted to buy something we could go buy it so up until february um last year he had lost that job and i was a stay-at-home mom and so i remember i was in tennessee at the moment visiting my parents and so i had went back to my parents and i was like oh my god i'm going to go back to work um which is fine like although it's hard with a child um you have to do it you have to deal so i did that he got a job as a car salesman salesman um he is only making about three grand a month which is not really that great um the way they do things there is just so weird how they pay but they basically essentially pay you to sell eight cars and then after eight cars is when you start getting like the commission okay and i was making like three grand a month as a but we so i don't live in portland i live in um sweet home which is an hour and 40 minutes from there and it's a very small town i don't have family here and we have a child and i had someone watching my son but that babysitter had to be dropped and so now i'm working and i'm making a thousand dollars a month um i am trying to find ways to like clean people's houses and stuff i guess my biggest thing that i'm slowly i think i'm learning is like our monthly income right now is four thousand eight hundred dollars and i'm trying to find ways to like clean people's houses our total bills are three thousand nine hundred and although that isn't what we you know used to have because we have a cushiony life but i'm i'm i think i'm worrying about stuff that is out of my control right now is what i think i'm realizing and it's taking a toll on my marriage like the financial piece my husband and i we just can't see eye to eye it's not that we're fighting but i'm just like top tier stress what what are the biggest stressors that you're feeling just not having the burden are you stressed that you're having to work are you stressed that you don't like his job what what's the the number one thing that's eating your lunch so i think the biggest thing right now is because we only have my husband's family to rely on and child care it's really hard especially with the location that we're in and i am afraid at some point it's going to be like okay like we have no other people to watch her child and i will have to be a stay-at-home mom but i am choosing this one thing i did learn i am choosing to deal with that when we get there so as of right now we do have child care um but it doesn't give you the hours that you need to be able to work it's limited right okay and and tell me again is that because the town is so small and there's just no one to rely on or is it strictly are you strictly going to family for child care um so i'm strictly going to his family i don't have family here um i don't want to say too much but we did just have a babysitter um but found things out about her please got involved and i'm so this town is just not a good place to have um find just random people off facebook maybe maybe maybe let's not go straight to that and i think that could be i want to say this you have a bad experience it will put a horrible taste in your mouth but i don't want that to turn into the first girl that we used ended up being bad that means everybody in this town is bad i don't want it to go to that because now you're putting yourself in a corner and you're really limiting your options how old is this child that needs child care uh three okay three and i just wonder i'm wondering about his job nicole yes um how long has he been doing this um he has been doing this for about five months now there was a couple a couple months where he did bring in like a three thousand six hundred dollar paycheck alone okay which was nice well maybe um i wonder if that's part of it too of you guys i'm kind of a timeline to say hey can we reevaluate you know give them nine months or i'm making up a time frame nine months in this role to really get the cycle and to and to know how to do it well right he needs some reps you don't want to just like pull the plug 90 days in but i wonder if you both could agree because your uneasiness is that your income is having to supplement what he was making and i think a goal of yours i'm assuming i may be putting words in your mouth but i'm not is that he would bring in an income that was to stay in the household and you don't have to work then you don't have to worry about child care anything that would be like the ideal situation right right yeah so i do wonder on on his end of hey can we reevaluate our situation every every couple of months just to give you an outlet to for you to reevaluate to nicole and to say okay it's been 90 days and we've done this we've survived like what is working is working right now we're on fire or for you to have a place to be like no no this is not working it's horrible it's horrible and and you know what i mean like i don't know for him to be able to have an out to in this specific job if there's something else that he could plug into he may not make a hundred grand again i don't know was he in sales when he was making a hundred grand what was he doing he was a supervisor for um like georgia pacific what's georgia pacific um it's in halls no it's in halsey Oregon, it's going to sound so funny, but it's where they make toilet paper and um paper towels and they wait for costco and all that like a factory manufacturing manufacturer is there have you guys considered looking outside of your area because it feels like just from listening to you it feels like you're in a very small bubble and you're limiting your options because of this bubble can he look for management jobs at manufacturers across the country and can you guys open up your scope and and if you say oh well what about child care there's child care everywhere like everybody family do you guys do you guys want to be near family um so right now we own our own home so we can't i mean we can't just pack up and like move um the job thing for him um one thing that i think is the biggest problem for me right now it's like it's just been nothing but like excuse after two it's like oh i don't want to go back to manufacturing job oh i don't want to do physical labor oh i don't want this oh i don't want that and so it puts me in a spot of like okay well i'm just going to say it out flat but it puts me in the headspace it's like okay well you just want things handed to you that is probably the biggest thing right now so he didn't like the job that he was doing he doesn't want to go back to that that's good to know does he like this current job does he like it or he loves it and i i love that for him like i love that he has found a job that he really loves so explain the handed to him part he loves this job do you feel like he loves it but he doesn't work hard at it what do you feel like is happening there um i feel like i'm in life and although maybe he doesn't see our finances the way i do and maybe he's not freaking out about it because honestly it's not really that big of a deal but for him like i'm sorry what was your question just for what part of it you said he just wants things handed to him and i said you said that he really loves his job does he love his job he's lazy at his job is that what you're sensing or does he love his job and he's working really hard he's just hitting a salary cap like what's happening um i mean he loves his job a lot um i would say that i know the people he works with and he's been working hard i mean there has been months where he's sold 14 cars then i think i think there's something else at play i think you're perceiving something that may not be true because you don't like the situation i think that's it i think she wants out yeah yeah and i i think that's fair i think you're feeling like hey i didn't sign up for a situation where i was gonna have to leave my kid with a sitter and work and but yet that's where you find yourself that's why i think some check-ins periodically so that you can you so you don't hold it in nicole and the resentment builds on your end right and to have a place even if it's a council you know counselor or therapist a place to be able to talk about this freely i think it's going to be really unifying for you guys most people spend years changing their money habits but never think twice about how their bank probably works against their values with nuisance fees and endless debt products if you're being weird by sticking to the baby steps you deserve a bank that helps with that that's why ramsey partnered with fair winds credit union they built the smart bundle specifically for ramsey listeners not for everybody else and it includes up to 10 high yield savings accounts so you can set up different funds for different needs and goals and now they've introduced the live like no one else debit card the original debt is normal be weird debit card is still available too and every time you reach into your wallet your card is a daily reminder that you follow a different path listen if you're living like no one else your bank should back you up check out the fair winds smart bundle including the all-new live like no one else debit card at fairwinds.org slash ramsey that's fairwinds.org slash ramsey insured by the ncua so you've probably noticed that in the majority of the calls we love the solution of everything every dollar because it's the budgeting app that we created here at ramsey solutions and it's the best way to work the plan that we talk about it's the best way to work the baby steps you have to have a budget in order to work the baby steps and so it's for you if you have been listening and you have not downloaded every dollar you need to start for free today you don't have to live paycheck to paycheck you don't have to live feeling broke our every dollar budget app helps you find extra money it helps you uh every month it helps you build a personalized plan that's just for you so that you can beat debt and build wealth it takes 15 minutes you'll find thousands i'm telling you in hidden margin you'll feel like you got a raise don't live normal when you can live like no one else start every dollar for free in the app store or google play today all right diane is in raleigh north carolina hey diane how can rachel and i help today hi thank you for taking my call um i have been following dave's program since 2019 i'm out of debt got good retirement i've had an old car that i'm trying to hang on to a bit longer i'm trying to get it wait to get another car until i'm closer to retirement and then hopefully it'll be about 200 000 miles it's got 127 000 miles on it now it's a 2019 um but this year when it hit 120 000 miles it has gotten expensive between maintenance repairs and i got some really good new tires i have spent eight thousand dollars on this car and i am guessing myself but i should have kept it this long what's it worth what's that car worth um probably around nine or ten thousand until subaru and until 120 000 miles i was pretty happy with it do you have money saved today do you have money saved up that you can just upgrade car well i do it would kind of wipe out my savings on my emergency fund and i have a i'm gonna get have to get a new roof for my house here sometime soon um but what's your margin every month get one that pardon what's your margin after you guys pay your bills what's the margin that you have available oh i have lots left over um i'm making double payments on my house right now because i'm i owe less than 11 000 on my house so could you just could you just slow it down a little bit and start stacking a couple of thousand it sounds like you got a lot i don't know how much a lot is but if you could put you know half of that aside for a car and in six months trade up does that is that workable i probably could like i'm trying to get like a another used car and i was looking at yeah definitely car with only 50 000 miles on it would still be like around 20 000 yeah but if you sell this if you sell this for 10 can you save up another 10 can you save two thousand dollars a month if you slow down on the house yeah just make your mortgage payment for five months could you save ten thousand dollars yeah i could do that which actually i could take ten thousand out of my account and still have my emergency fund that's what we're saying do that yes i think you're just like going fast you're like i gotta get this mortgage paid off this is like cramping my style right now i don't want to deal with it so close to and i'm doing better my retirement than i originally had thought i was doing and so i'd like to reward myself too which was another question i wanted to ask but not this time but so my car though because it is a good car it's just it's costing a lot right now it's too much it's worth nine it's worth nine thousand and you've put eight thousand in it this year and the year's not even finished it's it's time to upgrade and you have the ability to yeah so i would and sell it while it's all fixed yes you know for the for the eight thousand that you've put in with the new tires and everything else happens i mean seriously i probably would because if something else breaks you're going to be like oh my gosh that's going to cost two thousand is it worth putting two thousand you know you're back to the same conversation so while it's going well go ahead and sell it and get get as much as you can out of it because you've put a good investment into it yes you know that's that's one good thing to highlight you know here we do teach a lot of people's potential is lying in their vehicles when people are trying to get out of debt we're telling them to sell off their cars and drive a beater uh we we don't like car payments we want you to own your car scot-free but there is a moment where you can transition out of driving like that beater car and she's definitely at the point where it's like sure yeah i can upgrade my vehicle it's at no detriment you're making if you're making double and triple mortgage payments heck yeah it's time yes absolutely yeah it is we don't want you driving a crappy car for the rest of your life people that is for a season while you're getting yourself in a place where diane is diane diane upgrade the car yes ma'am do it all right thank you so much for the call diane let's go to marie who's in los angeles california again hey marie how's everything out in cali hi jade and rachel it's actually starting to finally cool down but i'm 27 years old as of today happy birthday happy birthday thank you so much marie thank you so much i'm going to go to school part-time i'm in baby step four and five but technically i'm not saving for my kids college i'm saving for my own and so i'm preparing to cash flow veterinary school in about three years wow my question is where do i store the cash while i'm saving for the three years well a good place to always keep short-term money that's not you know less than five years is in a good high yield savings account you'll get probably maybe close to three percent um so you're not trying to make a ton on it because you're going to be using it and you want enough time that if you had invested it, there may not be enough time for it to have the ups and the downs of the market to actually get some pretty good gains. So really anything less than four to five years, a high yield savings account is great. And Fairwinds Credit Union, we've been partnering with them and they're amazing. There's something called the Smart Bundle. If you go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey and you can get a no fee monthly checking account and then up to 10 high yield savings accounts. Not that you're going to need 10, but one of those can be earmarked for vet school. And then if there's any other savings you're doing, like to upgrade a car or something else, you can open up more. But yeah, to answer your question simply, a high yield savings account is where I would go. Okay. And do you recommend putting any money in the 529 or just everything in the high yield? Yeah. I mean, at this point for a 529, I don't think it's probably going to be worth it because it's only three years and you're waiting for that growth again, that money will be invested in the 529. And so, back to that, you know, point that it's, I don't know, there's just, there's, there's some risk there if it's that short term in the market, that if something does go down and genuinely, I think about election time, like, you know what I mean? Like these years, like they can get a little unstable. And if you needed some of that money and the market was down and you feel like, oh my gosh, I, you know, it's going to feel like you lost some money if you have to pull it out there. So, so yeah, so 529s are really good for long-term planning for college. But for this short term, three years, I think I would just do a high yield savings. Yeah. I think that's a really good question. And I think that's one that the broader audience wants to know about, you know, it's like, when is, when's a good time to throw the money in a high yield versus investing it? And that five-year mark really is, you know, the way it's calculated is from inception. If you take a snapshot at any five-year point, it doesn't necessarily have to be consecutive like these specific years. But if you take any five-year snapshot, you can see that there was enough time for the market. If it dropped, To fully recover and then, and then some. So that's kind of where that comes from. And I think that that's a really good, smart rule of thumb. Yes. And I say all this and then, you know, Marie, if you do look at the market, the last three years have been amazing. It's like, oh my gosh, I could have taken advantage of that, but you just don't know. So leaving some time is usually wise because the worst thing is putting money in and having to take it out in two years and, you know, and it's at a low and, you know, when you're thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to, it's going to, I am losing money. If you pull money out at that point, you really are. So yeah, have it, have it right, right out. Love it. Love it so much. All right. A couple of questions. You guys sometimes send us questions from Facebook, from the Baby Steps community. Keep doing that because we like to get them. This one is Tim from Instagram. We have a teen that will be driving soon. What are your recommended car brands that we should look at that will provide safety and still be economical? Oh, that's a good question. Yeah. I'm going to be honest. I'm not, I'm not very knowledgeable on every car brand and safety feature and everything, but, um, but yeah, I would say obviously a used car. Yes. And if there's anything that they can contribute financially, it's always a good thing, especially for a car because they are so invested in their car at 16. So like, that's a good place for them to be putting some money. So they feel, they feel some of that purchase and responsibility. Yeah. But yeah, anything, anything used, I mean, at that point, I don't know. And I'm looking at what's been on the road. I'm like, when I look, when I look out on the horizon, give me a Toyota, a Honda. Yes. Give me a Toyota, a Honda. I don't see, uh, a lot of, uh, Jeep compasses anymore. Like there's certain cars like don't get that. Yes. Do not get that. Do not get, uh, oh gosh. There's a lot of them. I guess I can't think of them because they don't exist anymore. They didn't stand the test of time. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. If you're working the baby steps, every major expense deserves a second look. And healthcare is one of the biggest expenses in most families' budgets. So if you're working the baby steps, every major expense deserves a second look. And that is why I recommend that you check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM isn't insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry. That means members help pay one another's medical bills. And they've been serving Christians since 1981. CHM programs start at just $115 a month. And here's why that matters. If you are paying more than you need to for healthcare, that money could be going toward paying off debt, building your emergency fund, or reaching your financial goal. And your monthly cost isn't based on your medical history or where you live. Y'all, a lot of families find CHM gives them more room in the budget. That's why so many members say they're better with CHM. And right now, new members can receive a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Go to chministries.org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org slash budget and promo code Ramsey. If you are a listener of the show, we would love it if you would like, subscribe, and share this episode or really any episode that is your favorite. And go ahead and join the conversation in the comments. We would love to hear from you. Okay, guys, Cindy is in Louisville, Kentucky. She's on the line next. Hey, Cindy, how can we help today? I don't know if you can, but I figure if anybody can, it's you guys. We'll do our best. I own my house outright. Okay. And I have no debt whatsoever. All right. I've never had credit cards. I don't believe in them. If I can't pay, buy something, I don't buy it. My problem is, I want to get equity out of my house to put on a new roof and to do some floors in my house. I adopt senior dogs and cats and my carpets are shot. I've only been here two and a half years. I came from Maryland. I've only been in my house two and a half years, but my carpets are shot and I want to get hardwood floors. How much does that cost? I figure about $30,000 total for everything. All right. I have no credit. I don't have good credit. I don't have bad credit. I have zero credit. Good. So, Cindy, you said. Nobody will give me money. Well, you mentioned that you're in baby step seven. You have a fully paid off home. You said you've never had debt. You've never done it. What have you done with your money? Haven't you saved it up somewhere or invested it somewhere? No, because my husband was very sick for 30 years. He got sick. He was very, very young. And we lived hand to mouth our whole lives. And so we weren't able to save money. When I sold my house in Maryland to move here, I put it right back into a house. So there was no money to save. We lived on his Social Security disability our whole lives. What are you living on now? Social Security. Okay. And how much is that every month? $1,780. Okay. And I pay my bills. Everything's automatic because I don't want to forget anything. But there's no nest egg, no savings anywhere, no cash. No, no. There's a couple few thousand dollars. That's it. How much is a couple few thousand dollars and where is it? It's, in a savings account, it's like $3,000. Okay. And that's, you know, that's it. And I, what I did was I got a home, I got, um, I have a home warranty. So that, God forbid, of something that'll pay to fix anything. Okay. Could you use that for the roof? No, no, no, no. It's just something, it's just something breaks, you know, the furnace, the dishwasher. The washing machine. Oh, for appliances. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Plum. No, it covers my plumbing. So if you just moved though, two years ago, how much equity is in the home? If you just went from, yeah, I don't know, a $300,000 house to that. My home paid off 100%. No, I know. I know. But I'm saying if you, how much is your house? How much is it worth? $240. Okay. So you had $240 in Maryland. You took the $240, bought a house here. So then for two years. house was worth a little bit more in Maryland, but the problem was I had to pay to move. Right. But we're saying how much. I'm just saying, do you have a lot of equity in the home to pull from in the first place? Yes. But nobody will give me the money because I have no credit. How much equity is in the home? $240,000. The house is 100% paid off. Okay. Okay. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. Yep. Yep. So. I bought the house with cash. to get out some of this $240,000 of equity and you're trying to get some of that to I'm trying to get $30,000 to put a roof on because my roof I'm not sure how old my roof is the the people I bought it from were flippers and they didn't know how old the roof was I'm a little before I have a problem before I have a problem I just don't want to have a problem Cindy here's what I'm here's what I'm thinking I'm a little concerned at with your situation because to your point you've just got the social security you can't afford home repairs you can't afford if the law if something happens in your yard a tree falls you can't afford that I wonder if a better purchase trees no I have one second Cindy one second one second I wonder if a better purchase for you would have been a smaller condo where there's other things no because I couldn't buy a condo I had to buy a house because I adopt I adopt senior dogs and cats okay so let me let me speak to that because there's a lot that's true here you've got senior dogs and cats you want to provide a sanctuary for them that is that tail is wagging the dog and that's where the problem is because the math here I mean that was a pretty good pun that was a good pun uh the math doesn't lie here you don't have any money and I'm not saying that in any judgment against you whatsoever it's simply true and the truth is that there are things that are going to come up that need maintenance the AC is going to go out at some point it's going to need maintenance the roof at some point is going to need to be repaired and you don't have the the monthly income coming in to take care of those things I realize you just purchased this house but if I were you Cindy I'd be thinking about a condo or a town home or a town home yes that's that's $175,000 yes and you know you you bank you know $75,000 on this other side you need to you have to yeah to have some buffer because you're very it's all real estate heavy at this point and that's not a great plan long term you need cash for things that are legitimate like you're saying a roof and everything and so um if you go to ramsolutions.com and check out our trusted pros and find a great real estate agent and have them run some comps in the area and hopefully you get you know 240 out of it or maybe a little bit more if you've been there two years maybe it's gone up four percent I don't know yeah a little equity to pay the commissions on all of it and um and find something that would fit your situation like what you're talking about and a town home usually is probably the best bet but it's going to be smaller but that's okay because you will have margin financially that I think is going to cause way less stress and that you're not strapped for cash where you're having to go pull equity out of your home and that's the really hard part about this conversation I want to pull that out no one is saying that we don't care about pets we're not saying that we don't care about the things that you want but the truth is sometimes there's forced priorities on our list and we're not saying that we don't care about the things that you want but the truth is sometimes there's forced priorities on our list and for you cash and having a little bit of diversity which is what Rachel was talking about not everything in real in real estate is a number one priority for you whether you like it or not it is the best thing for you to be um have a better foundation going into your later years yeah and you got to think Cindy if if you're going to be doing this with all these pets more carpet is going to be destroyed so you have to replace it again in 18 months and you need cash to do that right so if you want to cash flow this life you're going to have to do that right so if you want to cash flow this life you're going to have to do that right so if you want to cash flow this life you're going to have to do that right so it just has to be realistic to your numbers and and it's not been so um and maybe you can go volunteer at a shelter like find other ways to scratch that itch if you end up living somewhere where you can't have as many pets I just there's more than one way oh gosh I almost did it again there's more than one way to skin a cat oh no that's wrong isn't it that's not right tail tail wagging the dog skin cats over here I know I'm doing the best I can we love you we love you and the best thing is with all of it Cindy is that you do have a paid out house your hard work and diligence has allowed you to maybe make a different move where you have cash in the bank and you own you own something still right yes yes so that's a that it's a positive where you're at it's not a mortgage you know that's what I was thinking in my head as I was trying to pull the equity I'm like you're gonna have equity there is no mortgage so yeah you are free and clear which is that's a gift so use that to your advantage and you've you've lived a long life and with a with a sick spouse and you know that month-to-month feeling you're used to that but we're saying change it up do something different where you do have some buffer I think it's going to give you a lot of peace in the long run yeah well thank you so much for the call and what she's accomplished truly is it it's a part of what we teach we want people to go into the later years of their life we want you owning your home for most of your life and we want you to be able to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want you to be able to do that for the rest of your life and we want it. I'm not looking to make a kill, and I don't even have a list for what it's worth. Well, I really think that what Rachel said, I think, is the exact thing that you need to do. I think you need to talk with one of our real estate pros, and they're going to be able to crack the code for you. Because there's plenty of houses I know that all the bedrooms are upstairs, right? And so when I get that, it may not be everyone's preferences, but also I'd want to know how many showings. I mean, I bet out of 50 people, you're not getting 50 of those comments, right? I mean, so, yeah, there's not enough activity happening, is what I would say, and they can help you actually pull some comps. Because maybe in the area, I don't know, of Jackson, it's maybe values have stayed, you know, consistent, and you need to drop it a little bit. I don't know. So, yeah, they'll be able to pull some comps and help you. Absolutely. Thank you for the call, Alan. Let's go to Allison, who's in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hey, Allison, how can we help today? Hi. I was a public school teacher for 10 years. I've since left the field to raise our kids. We'll be homeschooling them. Don't feel like I will ever be going back into public school teaching. But I have a pension that's sitting there and wondering if I should pull that. I'm only 42, so I would get, you know, dinged in that area. But if I should pull it to reinvest it in our retirement that we have, which would get a better rate of return, or use it to pay off our house. I'm just kind of wondering if the ding that I would get would be worth, you know, the value of those things. I would not use it to pay off the house since it's retirement money. I am interested if you pulled the lump sum to reinvest. Is it a 10% penalty? What's the penalty? I think it's 10%. I don't know the exact number. I didn't look that up. Okay. Yeah, so I would look at that. I always hesitate to pull out long-term investments that have that. I would look at that penalty because, but pensions, depending on where your investments are within the pension, is going to make a difference. Because sometimes some, you know, districts, they do it great. Yeah. And it's well-invested. Yeah, and it's fine. But if you pull the numbers and see the investments and think, oh my gosh, I could be getting so much more because they put you in a really conservative type of investment that's not making a ton. And you run the numbers because you are so young that that ding now, you could make up for it, you know, in the market. Or if it's doing fine, a part of me would say you could leave it and then pull it all if you have that option at retirement age and reinvest it then. Do you know what the return on it is? They target 7%. Oh, yeah, that's not great. And I'm, like I said, I'm not playing. It's just kind of like sitting there. We're not contributing to it since I'm not working. Right, right. Since I don't plan on going back and we have other retirement investments. That we have on the side through my husband's work and then private things that I had invested in the 403B we had rolled over to an IRA. What's the lump sum of it right now that you would receive? It's 65 right now. I don't know what the penalty would be on it, but that's what's sitting in the account. You know, I might sit down with a smart investor pro to see what their thoughts are on it because I agree with Rachel 7%. I'm kind of like, I don't know if you pulled that out. You would take a tax hit, the 10% penalty, I'm sorry. But then after that, you'd be invested in making 10, 11%. And so you would make back the loss, you know, pretty quickly. I think I just, I'd want to sit down with somebody who knows more of the ins and outs on that. But that's what I'm leaning towards. I can tell you I would not pull out that money and put it towards paying off my house because the truth is that money is earmarked for retirement. And that would be like us telling somebody to cash out their 401k to pay off their home. And we just wouldn't, we wouldn't recommend that. You need, you need that diversification going back to one of our previous calls. You want, you want that money there. That's a very good question. Was there anything else? No, that was it. All right. We love you guys. We love listening to you guys. You guys have helped us out immensely. So thank you. Oh, I love it. Thank you so much for the call. I love that. All right. Let's take one last one. Renee is in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey, Renee, we're a little against the clock, but I think we can do it. Hello. Hey. Hey. So my question was, if, if I, if me and my husband takes a $89,000 HELOC on our home and use 45,000 of it to pay me and his debt off, does it make sense? And we have 20, we have like 23,000 stays in our savings, but we didn't want to pay such our savings. The total debt that you guys both have is 45,000. Yeah. So why would you take out an $89,000 HELOC? What's the rest of that money going towards? So I didn't want to do another HELOC. So the plan is to pay the debt off and eventually pay down on the, on the, on the $45,000 debt on the HELOC, but still have the extra money because we want to eventually rent. Our current home in Nashville out and move to Dallas and buy another home and use some of that HELOC to put on a down payment. Oh gosh. Of the new home in Dallas. Oh Renee, you guys are doing way too much. And I think if you do that, it's actually going to cause you to go backwards. If I were in your shoes today and I've been in your shoes with $460,000 of debt, I would take the 23,000 that you have saved. I take 22 of it and I would throw it at the debt, cut it in half, and then you and your husband, if you work like crazy people for the next year, you can have the rest of that 20 some odd thousand dollars paid off and you'll be completely debt free and you will have not borrowed against your equity. Yeah. The problem with that, Renee, is you start to move when you move debt around, you feel like you've done something and you have it and then sell your home in Nashville. Okay. Use that money then to buy something in Dallas, rent in Dallas for a year, sell your home in Nashville and don't be a long distance landlord either. Yeah. Yeah. There's automotive is the official auto repair shop of the Ramsey show because you can trust them to take care of your vehicle the right way. Their digital vehicle inspections let you see exactly what their technicians see, giving you confidence on which repairs are urgent and which ones can wait. Plus, every repair is backed by their nice difference warranty, three years or 36,000 miles. With a guarantee like that, you can walk away knowing that your car and your wallet are taken care of. Schedule your service. And get 10% off your visit at cbac.com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. That's cbac.com slash Ramsey. 10% off, up to a $250 value. See store for details. All right. Welcome back to the Ramsey show here in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio. I'm here, Jade Warshaw, next to George Campbell. If you were listening, I'd be here. I was with Rachel, but now I'm with George. Some call it an upgrade. Some call it a downgrade. I'll let you choose. I'll call it a comeback. Let's go to Violet, who's in Arlington, Virginia. Hello, Violet. How are you today? Hello. Hi. I'm on baby step two. First of all, thank you for taking my call. I started in December 2025, and I've got $37,000 paid. I'm now. I'm almost done with all my consumer debt, except for my student loans. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome, Violet. Yeah, I'm really excited, but my student loans are really big. There's a lot, but I'm ready to face the music, and I have a plan, and it's going to take me a number of years, but I can do it, and I had some questions around it. My balance right now is $225,000. Okay. The balance has ballooned because I had it in forbearance for 20 years. Wow. So it's really my fault that this happened, but I'm ready to face the music. I've been listening to the show. I heard your story, Jade. I know this is possible. I can do this, so I am going to start repayment next month. Way to go, Violet. Thanks. I'm really proud of you. Just that alone, I really am proud of you because a lot of people would stuff their head in the sand and kind of ostrich this situation, but you're like, you want to know what? It's time to go. It's go time, so I'm really proud of you. So $225,000 in student loans. Thanks. Where did the loans come from? Are you in your degree? Are you earning a good income? Tell us about it. I'm 43 now. I'm a single mom, so I am working for myself. I am earning in my degree. I'm a consultant in the work in the field that I've completed, so I have been burying my head in the sand, but I am able now to pay $3,750 a month on this, and I think I can get it done in five years. But my questions are that. The first one is that I have been hearing a lot from others online that their repayment or their payments have been lost by their loan servicer. And so I wanted to ask if like you experienced any of that or what kind of like best practices did you engage in when you were making payments just to track all your payments and make sure that they were all counted? I've not experienced that. The areas where I've found people experience that were on public service loan forgiveness where certain payments didn't count or the payments were lost in that way. Like, hey, I thought I made this amount of I thought I made 100 payments, but it's showing that I only made 70. So 30 payments were lost. Like I've heard it in that framework, but I've not heard it in just my normal month to month bills. I'm making payments and they're just not being applied. I have not heard that. However, I do think that with what you're doing, you're not just paying minimums. You're actively paying well above the interest and you're hitting that principle. You should be able to calculate and see that math actually happening in real time. And so I think that gives you the advantage to just be, you know, hitting it with an onslaught of payments and just, yeah, continue to track it. Well, that leads to my second question. So the $225,000. Is comprised of nine separate student loans and I'm going to debt snowball all of that. Great. The first the first four are between 10 and 14,000 each. So I know this sounds maybe against the principles of like the baby steps and the debt snowball. But I wondered if it would make sense for me to save up like, you know, over two to three months to like make a lump sum payment and just pay that entire 10,000 or 14,000 just for those first four loans. Well, I guess I'm worried that my payments are going to get lost. I just don't want to pay this thing twice, you know, they're not going to get lost. You have bank statements showing that money leaving your account so that on top of just save the PDF from your loan servicer each month showing that your payment history and you can always request a payment history as well from the servicer via email. So I think it's a I think it's I'm not going to call paranoia, but I don't think it's the real issue here. I don't want you to kick the can down the road any further based on. Well, what if the payment doesn't count? Let's just start throwing as much as we can every month instead of saving up lump sum and then hoping that we actually throw it at the debt. Yeah, and I mean, you can again to combat this when you make your initial payment, make your initial payment first that satisfies the interest and whatever a little bit goes towards the principal and then make a separate principal only payment within that same pay within that same statement period. And that way you can physically see the loan lower by that amount. And like George said, with your statements, you're totally covered. I think that you are I don't know, but I think that you're looking at this mountain and you're like, how can I tackle this? And it's like part of your brain is creating an excuse. And the other part of your brain is like, I'll feel better if I just pay off a couple of lump sums at once. I think you're just trying to find a way to, like, deal with this in your mind is what it sounds like. And honestly, just minimum payments on everything attack the small. What is the smallest loan right now? You said between. Ten and 14. But what's the smallest loan? The smallest is around ten thousand. It's ten thousand five hundred. OK, so you're going to be done with that in three months and you're going to be cutting into the next smallest one. I mean, that's really, really cool. And what you can start to do, Violet, is just these little mile markers that celebrate those small wins. And I think you probably already have it like this because I can tell by your personality, but have it tracked out ahead of time. So, you know, OK, the first loan is going to be done. What are we, September, October? It's going to be. Done in November. In November, I already have on the books that I'm going out with my buddy and she's going to buy us both a cocktail and we're going to celebrate that and then have it tracked for the next one. And those are things that you can do to really fire yourself up and get excited about this, because that momentum is what's going to carry you through. Because five years is a long time. And George, let's talk about this for a minute, because it's worth saying, you know, most of the people who do the baby steps, they're they're through baby step two. It's like a year. And a half to two year deal for most people. That's the average. But and when you're doing that in two years, a year and a half, yes, you're balls to the wall. You're cutting you're cutting everything out of your budget. You're living scorched earth. It's totally possible to do that. When you start creeping up on five and six years, you have to be strategic because you can't live in that state of mind for five years. It's very, very difficult. So maybe you do this, Violet, and you're like, I'm going to do a one and a half, two year sprint. And I'm going to like. Just run it all off. Leave it all on the court. And then after two years, I'm going to, you know, do something for myself. Maybe it's something that you need to upgrade. Maybe it's something that you need to do to just kind of feel your income a little bit. And then you do another year sprint and then you kind of take a little bit of a breather. But five years of scorched earth, it will take a toll on you. So you need to be be thoughtful and set those milestones ahead of time. And you tend to speed up on the tail end. Oh, yeah, I know that. Just because. Because right now on paper, this is what it looks like. You're probably going to make more money. You're probably going to find ways to sacrifice deeper. And so all of that can speed it up. So I would go, OK, what does a four year plan look like? Well, that's 4680 a month going toward these loans. What does a let's say I wanted to do it in 36 months, three years, 6250. So now you're going, well, I bring home 10. Can I live off of 3750 if I really got intense? I think you might find the answer is yes. And the shorter the sacrifice, you know, the more likely you are to finish this thing. True. Yeah, that's so good. Anything that you can do to shorten this. If there's opportunities that come up, if you're like, you want to know what maybe my rent could go down or maybe take those opportunities, because to George's point, if you can shrink this thing by a year and a half to two years, that's every get your life back. So I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. And he does not know about the trust. And we don't know when we should tell him about it. And also, we don't know what all we should know about the trust at this point. Well, George, I'm sure you guys covered so much of this in Investing Essentials. I feel like you're the one to knock this home. Setting up a trust is a pretty aggressive move to say for a kid's college. So why did he set it up in the first place? Did he talk to you and say, hey, I'm going to set this up for college and this was back when he was a baby? Pretty much, yes. Yeah, he was two years old. He just basically told us that's what he was going to do. And we know that he did set it up. And that's all we know. So no clue how much is in it? What's even in there? Is it cash? Is it investments? We have no idea. Exactly. And if you talk to him and just said, hey, Dad, he's a junior now. We're looking at colleges. We want to make a game plan to make sure that he goes debt free. Can you let us know what's in the trust and how we can help? Can you let us know how we access it? He would say none of your business. I don't know if he would say that. I think it would be a very awkward conversation just because he's so private. He doesn't like to share. But he made the trust for your son. And that's the part that I would push on because this is your boy and you kind of have a right to know about something that has the potential. I don't know, but it seems like it has the potential to have a major impact on him because you don't know how much is in the trust. You don't know when he would have access. I don't know if he would have access to the money if it's 18. You need to know those things. And I also don't like that your son would be blindsided because if there's, I mean, I don't even know if you can guess, Elena, but are we talking hundreds of thousands? Are we talking millions? Like how much wealth does your father-in-law have? He's very well off. He definitely can afford to do a trust. If I had to guess, I would. I would guess around 100,000, but I really have no number to go off of. But the part that worries me is that you're scared to even ask him about this. Yeah, I mean. And why isn't your husband asking? Yeah, that's another good question. It would be, we would both go to him and ask him. And we could. Just say, hey, we're starting to look at colleges. We know you set up a trust for his education. Can you get us a copy of the trust document? Can you tell us who the trustee is? Can you tell us if there's distribution triggers, anything we need to know as we make plans? Then you can also pick a school. You can pick a school that he can afford. Yeah, everything is predicated on knowing what's in the trust. Because if there's $10 in it, well, we got to make a plan for ourselves. And if there's a million dollars in it, that changes the type of schools we look at. Absolutely. Okay. So I would just, I mean, he set this up for your son. So there's no, this is private. You involved, he involves your son. Yes. Yes. So this is your business. Okay. And the time is of the essence here because your son is about to be looking at the colleges. Right. And I don't, that's the other thing. I don't know when to tell our son. I don't want it to dictate whether or not he goes to college. I would wait until you know more info about the trust. Yeah. Because you don't want false promises of, hey, granddad has a trust for you. Everything's going to be great. Yeah. That's the order. Yeah. Let's talk about that order of events. I think George is right. The first thing is you guys need to get the information. And the truth is, regardless of that information, we kind of need to treat that as like, if it's here, great. If it's not great, because we don't know anything about it, but it shouldn't stop the conversations that you guys are having with your son regarding further education, whatever that may be. You do need to have, I mean, you said he's in 11th grade. So hopefully the conversation has already opened up about, hey, if you are choosing to go to a university, here's what the options are. You know, here's what your mom. And what mom and dad have. Here's what we expect from you. We expect that you have a part-time job and that you'll contribute, you know, a certain percentage of what you make. We're expecting you to start applying for scholarship. Like whatever those expectations that you guys have for him, we're going to do community college for the first two years. You guys need to start saying that to him now. We can't wait until it's time to start applying for schools. And then him be like, well, he gets into the dream school and realizes we don't have the money. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I would, I mean, if he's a beneficiary of the trust, he should have a legal right to the basic information of the trust. And so if your dad is unwilling to talk about it, say, hey, is there a trustee or an estate planning attorney we can talk to about this if you are uncomfortable for some reason? Because we need to get to the bottom of this before we can make our plans for college. Okay. Have you guys saved up on your own or were you all banking on this being his education funding? We have not saved up. Like I said, my father-in-law is definitely capable of creating this trust for him to cover his college. So, and that's, that is a little scary for us because we don't know. And that's, that's why we want to start the conversation now, which is hopefully not too late. But if we do need to give money to it, then we know. Yeah. That's what you want. You just want the basic facts. We can move forward. That's all you're asking of him. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now, is your son, I mean, he's in the 11th grade. You might know this by now, maybe not. Is he the college type? Are you seeing him as the type who will go to university or is he more of an entrepreneurial, more of a trade school? What do you think? At this point, he doesn't know. And he kind of goes back and forth between talking about going to college and not. And I think he's leaning more towards not going to college. And those are some of the other things that I'd want you to be able to talk about with the father-in-law, which is. If little Jimmy decides that he doesn't want to go to college, what are his options? Because we don't want him to feel pressured to go a route that he wasn't going to go or to feel like this is the only. Does that make sense? Those are all questions that you guys are. And they're just questions. They're not you trying to tell him what to do with his money, the father-in-law. It's just, hey, we just want to know what's going on. This is crazy. This is some chaos he's created. It is. I mean, we talk about all the time. I know Dave says all the time. When you're estate planning. You have to bring the others into the conversation. You don't want anything to be sprung on them. It's it's unfair. And then it's kind of like everybody's left to figure it out. And you're, you know, having a nice sleep. Yeah. We're not asking for like private information about your life. That's fine. If you want to remain a mystery man, but you don't set something up for a kid with him as the beneficiary and then keep it in the dark until the very last second. That's not fun. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. And I'm so excited to tell you that the brand new 20-year-old Dave, who is a former college student, is going to be a part of the family. And he's going to be a part of the family. And I think if there's people listening who are, you know, in their early 20s, and they're like, I love Ramsey Solutions, and they haven't found that special person yet. Some people sometimes think that we're very, if this person has debt, don't marry them. Or if you both have debt, you need to wait to get married. And it's actually, that couldn't be further from the truth. I think the bigger thing to think about when you're dating someone, and you have a very clear financial perspective, is to get to know what their financial perspective is. Yeah, it's very telling. Honestly, if the other person has debt, and it's starting to change your mind. Now I get if it's hundreds of thousands, and you're like, I know what I'm signing up for. But it's beautiful when you meet a couple in the debt-free stage, and they said, yeah, we got married. And, you know, she came in with all this debt, and we just attacked it together. Yes. I'm like, great, that couple is going to make it through anything. Yes. Because if you are willing to take on your spouse's burdens financially, what aren't you willing to do for them? Yeah. That's such a big thing to do. So. Absolutely. But if you don't have the conversation, and you're just thinking, oh, we'll get married, I'll pay off her debt. And you never found out that he or she was a princess to begin with. And now you're fighting the fact that they just keep spending and spending and spending. It's like, well, you never got to know their financial philosophy. Yeah, you got to make sure you're on the same page beforehand. Too many people go, we've been married for three years. And I guess we're talking about money now for the first time. Yeah. Like, this is a huge problem. Talk about it beforehand, because those values are hard to align after you're married. Yeah, we say it all the time. Religion is a big one. You want to know, like, what do you think? Like, what guides your life? That's a big one. Kids, how do you see parenting? Do you want them? And how many do you want? Yep. How many do you want? Do you want them? How do you view parenting roles and things like that? Money is a big one. Am I leaving anything out? Family, in-laws, all of that. Gosh, maybe today's world, maybe politics. I mean, that's where, if you think about most of the calls where there's dysfunction, they're around some of those things. Yeah, absolutely. I love it. All right, let's go to Rose, who's in Washington, DC. All right, Rose, you're on the line. How can we help? Hi, guys. Okay, so I recently purchased a very expensive home. I rushed into it. It was an emotional process. I didn't have the best agent, and I got a little bit of awful advice, but also, I should have been a little bit more patient. But anyway, I'm in this expensive house, that I can afford. And I am wondering if I, do I kind of cut my losses and sell this house in two years, stay in there for a little while? Why two years? Because I just moved in a few months ago. It hasn't even been a year. It hasn't even been six months. Okay. And I'm now discovering that there are these very expensive repairs that need to be done. In the house that you just bought? In the house that I just purchased. Tell us the numbers. Tell us what you paid for the house. Tell us what your mortgage is every month. House is $750. Okay. My mortgage is $5,200. And what's the mortgage balance? $750. You didn't put any money down? I did. I did. I did. I lied. It's $712. Oh, you put the bare minimum down. So, the mortgage is $712. The mortgage, what I owe, I put about $66,000 down. Where is that money? Because I own, I have, I have, okay. So, part of it was just money that I saved. And then I took about $33,000. I borrowed $33,000 out of my retirement, which I'm paying back right now. Okay. But if you're telling me you put $60,000 down on a $750,000 house, I'm expecting the mortgage to be less than $700,000. No. Well, my mortgage is $52,000. I'm talking about the full loan. Not the monthly payment. The balance compared to what you paid for the house. Oh. So, sales price versus mortgage balance. That's what we're talking about. Right, right, right. I thought it was about $7,000. Oh, maybe it's a little under seven. A little under seven. Got it. That's your mortgage balance. Okay. What do you make every month? What is your after-tax monthly income? So, I'm averaging about $16,000 a month. I am commission-based. I'm in sales. Okay. Okay. That's good. So, I don't make anything under $200,000, $225,000 a year. So, ideally, you'd be making $20,000 a year for this to feel- Or $20,000 a month. I'm sorry, $20,000 a month. Thank you. And again, here's what I want to check. Is this after-tax, only? Or are you doing after-taxes, after-investing, after- Healthcare premiums. Yes. When you get to that $16,000 number that you gave us? After-taxes, after-insurance, after the little bit of retirement that I'm putting away right now. So, if we add back in your insurance premium, if we add back in what you're putting aside for investing every month, not quarterly, but by month, what will that turn that $16,000 into? Probably about- $18,000? $18,000. Right. All right. Okay. So, now this is not- Nothing's on fire. It's not too bad. Yes, there was mistakes made. You're frustrated with yourself. You rushed into it. The agent was looking for a commission. You didn't do your due diligence on inspection repairs. Let's put that in the past and just look toward the future and go, what's the next step? So, do you have savings right now? I do. How much? I do. I have a pretty good, like I have six months. Well, because I'm in sales, I was like, that was my priority. Good. Good job. So, I have six months worth of my mortgage saved up. Wow. Just of the mortgage. Okay. Well, that's good. $30,000 sitting in savings? Yes. Okay. What are the repairs going to cost? Have you got estimates on that? Oh, my goodness. Different bids? So, yes. Yes, yes, yes. So, I got anywhere between $7,500 to $8,000. Great. So, you can write a check today and get the repairs done. Okay. That's a pretty, I mean, I feel like you are real hard on yourself. You have the money to pay for repairs. Yes, the mortgage is a lot. I'd like it. I'd like it to be slightly less, your income slightly more, but you don't have to rush into selling this thing off. And I don't know that you need to sell it off if you like the house. I don't know, and tell me if I'm wrong, Rose. My guess is this is the most expensive house you've purchased. This is the first time you've had a mortgage that's this high, and you're freaking out because you're like, this doesn't feel right to have a mortgage that's $5,000, but you're taking home almost $20,000 a month. That's your pay. And so, ratio-wise, it's a fair amount. If we're close to the $18,000, $19,000 that we think we are, ratio-wise, it's a totally fair amount. I think you're just feeling like, oh, my gosh, what if something changes in my situation? What if my job changes? Yes. I think that's what you're feeling. And if you are feeling that, and you re-evaluate in two years, like you said, and you're like, you want to know what? I would feel more peace if I just downsize. I think that that's a totally fair place to be. Or just aggressively pay it off over the next seven years. Yeah. That'll give you some peace, too. Whether you're a small business owner or an individual, doing your taxes is not fun. It's like an algebra test where if you get anything wrong, the IRS can make you pay with actual money. But if you work with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro, you don't have to be a tax whiz, because they are. They know taxes like the back of their hand, which makes filing super easy. So work with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro and get back to doing what you love, which probably isn't taxes. Visit ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro and fill out the Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro form. The referral form to get connected to a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro today. All right, back to the phone lines. We go. We've got Carson, who's in Dallas, Texas, on the line next. Hey, Dallas, George and I are here. How can we help? Um, so I am a freshman in college, and my brother is a software engineer in Fayetteville. I'm actually from Arkansas, but Dallas is the closest major city. But my brother is a software engineer in Fayetteville, Arkansas, and we want to start a Christmas light installation business, and I was wanting y'all's opinion on it. Okay, why Christmas lights? Um, so this past summer, I, uh, pressure washed, and I made a lot of, I played football in college, and I needed some money to save up to come down here, and I pressure washed this summer, and I made a lot more money than I was expecting to make, and I really enjoyed it. What'd you do with the money? Um, saved it. Nice. How much you got in savings? Um, not much now. I think I have, like, 1,500 left. okay so what happened to the rest of it um i mean i saw like books for school then traveling i was uh it's like four hours from home so when i actually do go home gas and then food all the living expenses okay so do you have any debt right now no i don't fantastic and so you want to start this business with your brother who's a software engineer how does that play into the christmas lights was he you gave him this idea and he was like yeah i'm in we'll install these together so we wanted to start something for quite a while and we've researched a lot of different things and talked about a lot of different things and christmas lights was something that came up because we were talking about pressure washings because i would go up there and visit with him in the summer and i would uh we'd talk about how much money i'm making and like what i'm doing yeah why not pressure washing what what made you land on christmas lights yeah because it's it's not all like the business for pressure washing is a lot is down a lot in the um winter time and so that's when christmas lights are up the most from like so would it be both would you do one is it seasonal we do pressure washing on the other part of the year and then the christmas lights on the other yes yes got it okay now so we would do both what does it cost because i mean i kind of have in mind what i'm thinking i have a couple of thoughts here why do it together why not one of you just say hey i'm why wouldn't you just say hey yeah i think i want to start opening up this business and it'd be cool if my brother wants to work with me or work for me on it for a while versus it's got to be a partnership we've got to do this deal together like what's the benefit to you of linking up with him on this um so i would have somewhere to live i would have somewhere to live i would have i would stay with him and um also he would also keep his job for as long as he can and depending on how much we scale the business um is whether he's gonna just completely drop his job and come you do know christmas lights is like a one to two month gig so i wouldn't be dropping a full-time job for a one month to two month situation what if you just started out what if you just moved up there and you started with the pressure pressure washing and you just said hey can i stay with you while i start seeing how many pressure washing clients i can get and you just make it your full-time job that i'm going to get as many pressure washing clients and i'm going to just build slowly using the cash that i have i'm going to start with the pressure washer i have and once i get enough clients and i can save up a little bit more money you know and just go very very slowly and then as the pressure washing part starts to take off now you have cash flow now you can start saving up for whatever infrastructure you need to do the christmas lights and i would largely be doing this on my own i wouldn't hitch my what is it hitch my wagon to someone else's cart is that right cart to the wagon i wouldn't i wouldn't hitch myself up with someone else if i don't need to and i don't think you do i think partnerships make this get really muddy really quickly because what happens when he wants out because he's tired of it or would rather focus on software engineering or gets a promotion or moves yeah because it's two people you have to be paying buy him out yeah so that's the part where you really need to look at forming a partnership agreement if you're gonna do this so you're both on the same page with all the what ifs yes and then what must be true to start this business how much is it um we're looking into it to start it it would only be around like four to five thousand okay where is that money gonna come from um he has he has money saved up he has like he has that money but after that so now how does this work he put in all the money and you didn't carson i gotta be honest with you right i gotta be honest with you i feel and i'm not trying to point a finger but i feel like you're kind of leaning on him for your deal you're like i gotta i gotta move up there where he lives i gotta move into the house with him so i'll have a place to live he's got the money to do this so it kind of feels like hold on a second it just kind of feels like you're too leaned on him for something you're trying to do with your own life and he he's got a job he's software software engineer yeah sounds like he's doing fine he's gonna have to leave his thing to do does that make sense i just don't feel like this is set up the foundation of this doesn't feel set up in a fair sense and i feel like you're too leaned on what he can do for you versus you going out and doing something for yourself is that fair enough yeah i understand where you're getting to but where i am right now i am in a town of 2 000 people and the closest place is pine bluff which is an hour and a half away okay and there's 30 people there so why are you out there what are you studying i'm studying finance and i play football down here and the reason i came is because um i get a large amount of school paid for okay so i think then let's let's tackle one thing at a time if you're there to go to school go to school like play your sport do that thing pressure washing is not going anywhere if you want to do some side hustles like that but i wouldn't go just starting a business willy-nilly i would just make it a side hustle try out a few people's christmas lights if you want this winter get a feel for it and then if you love it and the margins are there and you're like i could scale this thing do it with your own cash before you bring brother into it as the sort of financier yeah i agree it's just going to get met we've seen it get messy too often and make sure you do it properly if you're going to do it you need to form an llc you need general liability insurance because you're up on ladders you're messing with people's gutters on houses you need to make sure you're protected yeah absolutely and i i i tend to say i i'm sure there's plenty of partnerships out there that are doing just fine but honestly if you can just do this on your own it's your first business do it on your terms that way everything is operating according to your values you're not have because what if your brother is like gets this grand idea that requires debt and you're like i don't want to use debt and now you guys do you see what i'm saying everything has to go through each other so and it's well carson's doing all the work brother's not getting on the roof he just wants to be part of the business and so now it's like well i'm putting in all the hours and you're just doing some accounting on the back end or whatever it is it's going to feel unfair at some point rarely does it feel like we're both putting in 50 50 yes generally each partner thinks they're pulling the other's weight that's a very good point and that's where it gets messy and resentment bubbles but it sounded like a great idea up front yes like this will be fun it's a way for us to bond i'd rather you bond over going golfing or something absolutely cleanliness is what we're after a nice clean plan well let me go back and read the scripture and quote of the day because i opened up hour four george without doing people were wondering i know i broke the i broke the chain here i hope there's no bad luck or something in that it's fine god god is a gracious god he's a gracious god as a matter of fact psalm 1832 says it is god who arms me with strength and keeps my my way secure in spite of the fact that i did this incorrectly and then sarah blakely said i think failure is nothing more than life's way of nudging you that you are off course and so i have just been nudged that i did go off course you've been humbled i have been i love it oh my goodness gracious all right george i love these quick questions from social they're just a quick way to say something you know just a little shout out what's the recommended dollar amount percentage of take-home pay that you can budget for fun money after you complete baby step three oh i'd make it reasonable i'd be in agreement with my spouse and you know you know you get a thousand dollars out of your three thousand dollar take-home pay that's bad yeah it's not a percentage it's a vibe exactly all right guys remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus you you