It's One Ballroom, Donald, How Much Could It Cost?

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I'm John Favre. - I'm Dan Fyfer. - On today's show, the JD versus Marco primary is heating up and we'll talk about which one of them will win the ultimate prize of defending Donald Trump's dog should approval rating to an angry electorate in 2028. Speaking of which, we'll also talk about Republicans voting to spend $1 billion of your money on Donald Trump's ballroom, Trump's revenge on the Indiana Republicans who blocked his gerrymandering scheme and the latest with Jay Edgar Booser who's been handing out custom engraved bottles of bourbon and threatened to polygraph FBI officials when one bottle went missing. Then love it talks to Tom Steyer, one of the leading Democrats in the California governor's race about his vision for running the state. Also before we start, if you're a friend of the pod subscriber, which if you aren't, you should be. You can buy tickets for this year's CrookedCon starting Tuesday, May 12th, special pre-sale, just for subscribers. But if you're not a subscriber because you hate pro-democracy independent media and love listening to podcast ads, then you can buy CrookedCon tickets a week later on May 19th. So get that extra weekend 'cause they're gonna go fast. Either way, it's gonna be a big fun party right after the midterms, on November 5th through 7th and Washington DC. So go to CrookedCon.com for more details, including how to become a friend of the pod subscriber. I'll give you the detail right now. CrookedCon.com/friends. - There's the thing, we're gonna be together. - And we're gonna be drinking. We're either gonna be celebrating or drowning ourselves, but we're doing it together. - Yeah, you can still have a party if it's a, you know, I mean, it's still a party. - I just want to make that a happy party. - Somewhere, it's gonna be a drunk party. There's karma out there and I don't wanna anchor karma. - Okay, well, there you go. Okay, we are recording this on Thursday afternoon, and as of right now, the US and Iran are still discussing a one-page memo that would reopen the Strait of Hormuz, pause the war that's already supposed to be paused, but really isn't for another 30 days, during which time the two countries would try to reach a permanent deal where Iran gets billions of dollars and unfrozen assets if they pinky promise not to build a nuclear weapon and commit to an inspection regime that sounds a lot like Obama's Iran deal that Donald Trump pulled out of. The background music for these negotiations is Iranian boats firing on US Navy ships and the US carrying out new strikes on an Iranian oil port. I'm clear it's a little fog of war going on, but as we're recording, there's sort of explosions everywhere. There's reports of explosions in Tehran as well, so who the fuck knows what's going on? Trump officials say this doesn't count as restarting the war, but they also might restart the war, just like they also might restart Project Freedom, which is Trump's half-ass plan to guide traffic through the Strait, which was canceled earlier in the week after an incredible one-day run. - Project Freedom. - Not even a full day. Not even a full day. - I know I was being generous. - It's like bankers hours. Meanwhile, the CIA reportedly believes that Iran still has 70% of its ballistic missiles, 75% of its missile launchers, and can withstand the US naval blockade for, quote, "at least three to four more months." That is according to the Washington Post. What do you think Dan, is Trump still holding all the cards? - It's hard to unfathom a bigger clusterfuck than this. - It's just such a shit show. It was such a bad idea, obviously. It's been so poorly executed since then. It's so chaotic that at the same time that I was reading the New York Times story today on the One-Page memo, and everyone's very specific that it's one page. - 14 points on one page. I guess-- - We don't even know why. - You got to put the margins over it. You got a 0.5 margin. Maybe you got a 0.25. - What's the font size? Are we 14? Yeah, we don't know. - Gotta be. If we're fit in 14 points on a one-pager, it's a lot. I mean, but what are those 14 points? So it's one page. I'm reading that. I get a newsletter on my phone that the United States is struck Iranian oil ports. Like, what is happening? And then we're fired missiles back and forth. They've attacked U.S. ships, apparently. We think at this point, the Americans have had to retreat 'cause they were damaged. We think at this point, but do not worry. The peace negotiations are still headed down the path, and they're still circling around this one-page memo. And a ceasefire could begin any minute, or I guess a peace deal could begin any minute, which is what they've been saying for a month now. - So just as a thought exercise, I'm gonna be generous again here. Let's imagine that the negotiations, sort of the latest round of firing and attacks that that dies down, negotiations resume. They get a deal, and then 30 days from now, they reach a more permanent deal. And it's the best deal possible for the United States. - Which is the Obama deal, which is basically-- - I was gonna say the approximation of the Obama deal. - Yeah, what that would do is basically, you'd ship out all the uranium, the enriched uranium from Iran. Some reports had possibly to the United States. So you'd ship out all the uranium. Now, they didn't have any uranium when Donald Trump came into office because of the Iran nuclear deal, but they did produce a lot more enriched uranium. They didn't reach a lot more uranium in the years between Trump pulling out of the Iran deal and Trump deciding to attack them. But anyway, so you get rid of all the uranium. And then you have new limits on uranium enrichment and the nuclear program. And some of the hawks might argue like, maybe they're a little more stringent, but the same kind of inspections regime, maybe like a little bit more enhanced. But again, the whole deal is we're gonna inspect it. There's gonna be spot inspections. The UN can go in there anytime. So we're gonna keep an eye on them, which again, that was the Obama deal. And in exchange, we're gonna unfreeze billions and billions of dollars of assets. Again, that was the Obama deal. And so that is the best, best, best case scenario. In that scenario, what did it cost us? Well, it cost us 14 American lives. Hundreds of now thousands of lives in Iran, in Lebanon, across the Gulf, it cost us God knows how much money, both in at least $25 billion, as we're gonna say, both in the direct money we spent on the war and the harm to the global economy and to the US economy in higher energy prices. It also, we're talking about Iran having 70% of its ballistic missiles, 70% of its missile launchers. What kind of weapons do we have? How many weapons, how many missiles do we launch now? Over this war for absolutely fucking nothing. Our global standing in the world, our allies trust in us. I don't know, I could go on and on and on, but it doesn't seem like we would have gotten much from this best, best, best, best case scenario. And even under your best, best, best case scenario, which was very generous of you and your generosity is appreciated at the highest levels of the White House, I'm sure the likelihood that the Iranian people rise up against the regime for a more pro-American democratic version of Iran is much less like than it was before this because I don't know, we started blowing up their country and bombing girls schools. So that seems unlikely. And let's say we, let's say we did kill in 86 year old, and a bunch of his top goons. And that is making world, I feel safer already. - Right, because clearly, that has decapitated. the regime and they haven't been able to do anything since then oh oh wait yes and then but even before we get to your future approximation of the Obama or Randial let's just say we agree on the 14 points we get that done and the straight opens either if you open the straight today the United States government estimates it'll take six months to clear it of mind the impact on oil prices around the world in gas price in the United States will remain for six months to a year at least the economic damage will not be undone the tail effect of all of this on food prices because a fertilizer on the supply chain will continue for a long period of time and so this is not like you solve this problem because Trump is trying to solve this problem because the midterms are coming the political problems that come from the damage to the economy are not going away anytime soon and for the American people who are struggling which is a more important issue here relief is not coming when the 14.1 page memo is agreed to yeah and then what do you think's going to happen when if the memo is agreed to and Trump announces that he should get the peace prize again and everything and then gas prices continue to drift up from now until November you think people are going to be you think the people are upset now just wait all octoberals around in the war has been in the rear view mirror for a couple of months people are like what the fuck why am I still paying $5 gas $4 gas speaking of which oil futures have been on a real ride thanks to all the dueling scoops and siren emojis but gas prices which are a little more stable we're at a nationwide average of $4.55 a gallon 10 cents higher than Monday and the Trump White House is of course working overtime to make sure people know and understand that they feel their pain let's listen credit card spending is through the roof they're spending more on gasoline but they're spending more on everything else too we want to encourage all americans to take a road trip whether you're going to go two hours or two days I thought oil prices would go to $200 $250 it's at $100 now but even if it went to 200 it would have been worth it I understand just an incredible showing from all three of those gentlemen but I do have to say Kevin Kevin has it like yeah no it's true people are maxing out their credit cards because of high gas prices but in fairness everything else is fucking expensive too it's like do you think it's possible that Kevin has it is secretly working for the democrats do we have a plant in there we would never hire someone that's stupid is this what Ken Martin has been spending all the money on I think it is more likely that I guess there's two options when it comes to the asset one is he's the dumbest economist alive and the other one is is that earlier this year he placed a massive bet on kalshi on democrats taking the house because he's going everything possible like he is just or maybe he just wants to be in as many campaign maybe has a maybe has a bet with this young about how many democratic campaign ads can he be in because he every time he goes on TV he's trying to be another one maybe it's like a bet with Scott Besson because every time Besson opens his mouth it's almost as bad I think Bessons in the lead right now but Besson gives like Kevin has it gives off doofus vibes while Besson gives off the vibes of someone who would use his private equity fund to buy your house in the victory yeah yeah Besson gives off the vibe of someone who's like never gone to a grocery store or gone to a gas station and filled up his own tank of gas I mean which is a terrible thing to say about a soybean farmer but there's a there's a bigger issue here I think beyond just the incompetence of these individual spokespeople is they are like this is the trap trump is set for himself which is they you cannot admit that things are bad because to admit things are bad is to admit that trump failed and you can never admit that trump is fallible and so since you can't admit things are bad you can't lay out your plan to make them better so instead you just have to walk around every single day and stick your thumb in the eye of every swing voter and seem just radically out of touch with with reality it's just like this is why the affordability to all of that was doomed to fail because they are incapable of offering a message because they're incapable of acknowledging the reality that American people feel every single day I would say that's all true but they are doing an extra special good job of of poking the American people in the eyes because like you think about the Biden administration and we criticize them at the time when they would go around being like oh you people say they're hurting but like you're looking at gas prices in an expensive neighborhood and actually look at listen to the inflation rating it's actually good and all of their comments while they weren't really effective at making people believe something different than their eyes were telling them they were at least geared towards trying to tell people that things were getting better and that is being that's being overly generous I know I'm again I'm feeling very generous yeah what is going on with you today but again like I can't imagine if like Ron claim or I can't even remember who the economic like Jared Bernstein we're out there being like guess it's true it's true people are expending a lot of money and maxing out their credit cards on gas but also everything's expensive yeah I mean like in fairness to like the individual spokespeople we would do a better job than Biden himself who would be like the lowest unemployment rate in history yeah they did have that thing where they were like everyone's turkeys are five cents cheaper this Thanksgiving where things are getting better it's just you look everyone if you're ever in the White House if you ever want to get a campaign you ever get to the White House and the economies we're a little rocky don't do that just don't do that people are upset people are going to be upset just tell them you're going to fight harder that's it that's all you got to do still not going to help you necessarily but it's not going to make it worse this is making it worse stop digging stop digging exactly positive America is brought to you by books well there's days coming up but I've been thinking about my mom because now that I have kids of my own I realize how impossible I was yeah you know I feel even when I was being cool just challenging it's just challenging but in a good way but challenging tiring but in a lot you know just a lot and you know what she deserves his payback you know she flowers books so yeah mother's day matters you got to get it right and the easiest way is books that's short for bouquets obviously everyone knows that if you're thinking about sending your 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to someone there's a lot going on in your life there's a lot going on in the world the people in your life maybe they want to hear you but not constantly they don't want to just sit there and listen all your problems so you should sit down with a therapist someone whose expertise is in solving your problems good problems good idea you don't have to traverse life's challenges alone find the personal support you're looking for in therapy sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/psa that's better help.com/psa so as this is happening the two men most likely to be the Republican nominee in 2028 we're out there trying to explain the war everything else JD Vance was an Iowa on Tuesday ostensibly stumping for a vulnerable Republican House member but probably testing the waters for 28 to see if there is anyone out there who likes him let's listen what is this what is Zach are going to have to help me out with her name here I lost my page here okay all right okay there we go Sarah Trone Gary there he is I'm on the wrong page here crushed it sir crushed yes doing great Shane Goldmarker from the New York Times was at the event and he noted in his story that a bunch of people but volunteered to him that they actually really like Rubio and not just fans sometimes over vance which is something that our friend Sarah Longwell has been noting in her focus groups as well Rubio happened to be taken over the White House daily briefing the very same day Vance was an Iowa I know you would love it talk a bit about this on Pots of America - Only friends. - How do you access that, John? What is that, tell me about that? - Well, it says right here, you can subscribe at Cricket.com/Friends. If you haven't already. - It's an extra special biweekly episode of Pots of America. - So you got Pots of America? - Subscribe. - Rotating cast of characters. It was you and love it this week. And I know you guys talked about this, but we're gonna talk about it again, particularly because-- - With different takes. - Different take. Well, there's one answer from Rubio. You guys didn't talk about that has gone viral from that press conference. And it was a response to a kind of question that we all know and love of the-- - What gives you hope, Friday? (laughing) Here's what Mark Rubio said. - I mean, my hope for America's what it's always been. I think it's the hope I hope we all share. We wanted to continue to be the place where anyone from anywhere can achieve anything. Where you're not limited by the circumstances of your birth, by the color of your skin, by your ethnicity, but frankly, it's a place where you are able to overcome challenges and achieve your full potential. I think we have a lot to learn and be proud of in our history. It is one of perpetual and continuous improvement where each generation has done its part to bring us closer to fulfilling the vision that the founders of this country had upon its founding. - Not limited by the circumstances of your birth, unless you were born to someone who is not a citizen of the United States, in which case, my administration is currently trying to make sure that what it says in the Constitution that you're guaranteed to be a citizen is no more. (laughing) Other than that, other than that tiny exception. Yes, as far as your dreams can take you. So, that went viral. All the MAGA folks are loving it. Rubio's official Twitter account released essentially a campaign video of that answer with a Superman-type theme song playing in the background. What do you think of the Rubio Boomlet, Dan? What is the path from here to Marco Rubio accepting the Republican nomination in 2028? Well, J.D. Vance is just sad somewhere. - Let me, I would like to see J.D. Vance sad somewhere, but I don't want to see Marco Rubio happy. So, I'm not really sure how this plays out. I think the Rubio Boomlet, as you have deemed it, has more to do with J.D. Vance sucking than Marco Rubio's shining. Like, Rubio does benefit from comparison. He's in a cabinet. - In the land of the blind, one eyed man is king. - Yes, I'm sure. - You're not supposed to say that for a whole bunch of reasons anymore. - Yeah, I'm sorry. - Well, I wonder what we're doing this podcast with next week. Anywho, don't ask if we're leaving it and everyone we're leaving it. - He's in a cabinet. Let me try to do this in a way. He's in a cabinet with Pete Hegseth, R.F.K. Junior, Lindemick Man, Sean Duffy. He looks serious compared to those unserious people in the land of the unserious. The serious man is king. The mildly serious man is king. - Fuck, that sucks. - Well, you know what, we gotta make adjustments, Sean. And so, I think he looks more serious in these people. I love that I talked about his performance of the briefing compared to Pete Hegseth. He looks like a real person. I think there is one giant problem for Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio's greatest legislative accomplishment. Perhaps his only legislative accomplishment was to work hand in hand with Barack Obama and Harry Reid to pass a bill to provide a path to citizenship for millions upon millions of undocumented immigrants. - You mean Marco Rubio also fluent in Spanish who spoke in Spanish at that briefing, which to me was quite impressive, but let's check him with the 40% of Republican voters, 50% of Republican voters who still absolutely loved Donald Trump and want him to be more restrictionist on immigration and more than enoughobic. - I worked in the White House when Marco Rubio helped Barack Obama pass that very important bill to give a path to some call it at the time. When he helped with the Obama and Misty Bill, I was there. Every single day in the office, I was appreciative of Marco Rubio's help. - Today, to this day, I just sent him a thank you card again the other day. - I am available for speaking to, I will talk to anyone about the very important role he played. I am available if you need me at Iowa New Hampshire in the coming years to come speak and share the gratitude I have with Marco Rubio for the work he did. His sincere beliefs, his hard work, the way in which he really was, Barack Obama's whisperer on the hill. - Yeah. - I'll have to tell the stories. - This is a man who believes that borders are just lines on a map and that they don't really capture like what it is to be an American, which is as he said there, it's a place where or anyone can come and become anything, which is that, you know, Marco Rubio believes that, that speech could have been given by Barack Obama right there. And I think the reason is because they are, when you get down to it, kindred spirits. - Like what Rubio used to say I'm told I wasn't there was, we're not Republicans, we're not Democrats, we're all members of the Uniparty. So, you know, it is like, I think that all of these, and I have heard this now, I know that Sarah has heard this in her focus groups. I've heard this from like people, I know people have encountered, but they are all the same people who are like, you know, maybe Spencer Pratt should be mayor of Los Angeles or people who are like, let me say they're either they've got finance careers, they've got tech careers, they liked Elon Musk for a while, they thought that was interesting, they were kind of looking at Ron DeSantis in the last primary and thought maybe he had a really good chance, way too late. And that group of people is influential in terms of their megaphone and their money, but they are not the megabase. They are not the megabase. And I think that right now, I agree with you that it is more about JD Vance's weakness than Marco Rubio's strength, 'cause right now I think Marco Rubio is a bit of a blank slate for people. And they are just-- - Oh, not when I've done with them. But they are, I mean, and we do this, we've done this with Democratic candidates all the time, but you sort of project all your hopes and dreams of what you wanted to candidate on Marco Rubio because right now, when you see Marco Rubio, he's not fucking tripping and falling on his face every five seconds like the rest of the doofuses in the administration, you know, and he does seem like a serious person. - He ran a absolutely miserable 2016 campaign. - Oh my God, remember? - The voters met Chris Christie, like murdered him on stage. - Yes, yes, and I just point out to the other day, he ended his campaign losing a dick joke war with Donald Trump and then cried because he was so upset that Donald Trump would have access to the world's most dangerous weapons. - Also, how does, I mean, I could very easily see a scenario where it ends up Vance Rubio. In fact, I think that could be one of the likelier scenarios. Like, I don't, can you see a scenario where Rubio is like, you know what I said, I wasn't gonna run against J.D. Vance, but change my mind, I'm gonna do it. I find that hard to believe. Maybe there's a scenario where J.D. Vance is so thoroughly embarrassed that he just sort of slinks away and decides not to run at all. All of that seems impossible to imagine. - Unless Trump tells him, unless Trump tells him you're not it. - Yeah, I mean, if Trump put his thumb on the skill, I was like, I want Rubio to do it. - Like even privately, you know? - Yes, then I can see that happening. Yeah, it'll be interesting. But I think if you're Rubio, you're like, I'm just gonna go along and take the adulation from the people who think that I would be better than the current situation we're in. And maybe he runs with J.D. Vance, and then thinks of J.D. Vance loses. Then Rubio is instantly the front runner for, what is it, 2032? - Yeah, I think he could consolidate every single one of the Nikki Haley voters, and I think I'd be great for him. I mean, Rubio's natural-- - Oh, yeah. - Rubio's natural energy is-- - Cuck, like I just, he's, like he is-- - Yeah, like that is-- - Like he's sitting in that big cuck chair. - Yeah, I mean, also that's, you know what? When I go to Iowa to tell these stories, I'm gonna bring that chair with me. I'm gonna sit in that chair to tell the stories of Marco Rubio's-- - And just work. - And read the immigration bill that he authored. - Yes, yes. - Just read it out loud. - You know, just hit it up. - The Obama library is opening this mouth. I wonder if there's an annotated copy in there. - I hope there's a new tip it. - I hope Marco Rubio features prominently in the library. - This was fun. All right, Trump, meanwhile, seems like he's trying to make it as difficult as possible for either Vance or Rubio to win a presidential election thanks to their association with him. Here he is discussing his plans to change the color of the reflecting pool on the national mall, stage a UFC fight at the White House for his birthday. And of course, build his ballroom. - I said, you know, I built all these swimming pools and they're phenomenal. So I have some very good contractors. I think that I'd like to recommend a color. It's called American flag blue. I said, that's the color I want. - As you know, June 14th, we're having a big fight. A lot of people haven't seen this yet. This will be the greatest show on Earth is at night. That's all lighting and cover. I was in a position being a builder and having built many ballrooms and many other things. I'm good at ballrooms. That's the entrance to the new ballroom that's being built which will be cool. Which everybody likes, especially since last Saturday evening, they like it even, 'cause they don't have a thing called security. - Those were all just this week. Just this week, as the war has erupted again and they're trying to get a ceasefire and gas going through the roof. That was all this week in his remarks. Um, and good news. Reuters just reported that the White House is expecting to get the $400 million jumbo jet, the Katari royal family personally gifted to Donald Trump just in time for America's birthday. Happy fourth. Here's a 400 million dollar Katari jumbo jet from the royal family. Well, the jet was free. The $400 million you paid for, you the taxpayer, to upgrade the security on the jet. I remove all the listening devices that Katari has put in it. So so far, Trump's a whole Versailles on the Potomac vibe has been yet another weight on his approval rating. But now he's tossing the anchor at Republicans in Congress who are stunningly about to vote on whether to spend $1 billion our dollars taxpayer dollars on Donald Trump's ballroom, which they are claiming is necessary for security reasons. Um, do you think Republicans running in competitive races are excited about signing their own political death warrants? This is the most insane thing I have ever seen a party do in election year. They don't have to do this. Like they chose to do this. They volunteered to do it. And at a time in which they've already voted to close rural hospitals. They've already voted to kick people off their healthcare. They've voted to kick people off their food assistance. They've said we don't have money for education or child care or anything else. But we have a billion dollars for a fancy ballroom where Trump can wine and die in the Epstein class. It's like this is like a stimulus program for put a glad makers. Like it is insane. I hope they vote today. I was just thinking about that. Like in this, I wonder what you think about this. In this media information environment, it is a buffet for ad makers, for democratic ad makers that they've never seen before. And I think in an environment like that, you want to go with one ad over and over again. And all you need, I really think someone can go test this. But all you need is an ad that just has image of him talking about the ballroom and then rural hospital closing, image about him talking about the fucking arch that he's building and people talking about high gas prices, people at the pump, image of him talking about the fucking reflecting pool and then people like, you know, and then war and like, you know, flag drape coffee. Like there's just this is, this is so simple. There is nothing else that people need to do. But just like one 60 second ad that like shows the corruption that embodied in Donald Trump talking about and Republicans with him talking about all of these, you know, the arch, the whole thing. And then, and then all the struggles people are going through. And that's it. That's the only thing you need. You need the vote. You need like, if they actually vote the vote, yeah, yeah, the use it is, it has to be, there is money for all these things that don't help you. And there's no money for you. And worse than that, they're going to take your money and they're going to spend it on this dumb fancy shit for rich people. Like, it is an absolute gift. And I think the ball, like, there's so many things, right? And you're right. Like in this media environment, like, how do you keep track? The ballroom has the ability to be the equivalent of the whatever was the $600 hammer or the toilet seat, all the things in the Reagan era because one, it's so absurd. It's so ridiculous. And it has the advantage of the fact that every time Trump opens his mouth to breathe, he talks about the ballroom. So it's like, it's like the one, like, it's all, we always talk about how Democrats don't have the media firepower to make something that is bad for Trump news, all of it, all in our own. Here's the thing where Trump is doing it every single day. And so he himself is raising awareness of the bar room. So it is like, we are pushing on an open door here. But also, all of these Republicans running are in competitive races are inevitably going to end up in a debate. And I think like every single, if you are a Democratic candidate and you do not make that Republican that you're running against in a debate, like own the ballroom, talk about the ballroom, talk about all of the corruption, like, what are you doing? You know, I mean, I just think that is the easiest, easiest layup. I don't care if the question is about some local fucking issue, bring it back to the ballroom and Donald Trump. Just do it. It's why we went from a $200 million corporate funded ballroom, which was corruption, but at least it, we weren't paying for it to a $1 billion ballroom that we're all paying for. Well, it's funny because it's literally the worst of both worlds for them, but because half the ballroom is being funded by corporate donors that now get special access to the White House and special meetings with Donald Trump. And then the other half is paid for by us. It's just like, yes, it is. I've never, I've never seen, it's like, it is like they want to lose. It's like Mike Johnson. It hates his job so much. He has to get, he wants to unburden himself for the responsibility of the speakership. It's a wild experiment. Positive America is brought to you by bombas. The springtime thaws finally here. Flowers are blooming days are longer. 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It's like having a personal assistant baked into where you live. It's simple. Being a renter and now owning a home is better with built. Join the membership for where you live at joinbuilt dot com slash crooked. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash crooked. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. So one reason Republicans may not defy Trump's insanely unpopular demands. His primary threats still work as we found out Tuesday and Indiana for people who don't remember. Last year, Trump vowed to punish Indian legislators who voted against gerrymandering the state's maps. Turns out he did. Trump's primary challengers ousted at least five of the seven state senators he targeted who were helped by photos posing with Trump in the oval and about eight to 10 million dollars of ads against their opponents. Tennessee Republicans saw this and decided they would not be Trump's next victims. On Thursday, the governor there signed into law new maps that would chop up the loan congressional Democrats Memphis area district Republicans in South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana are also contemplating new maps before the midterms, although it's less clear if these states will succeed. Former playbook author and journalist Rachel Bade called Trump's victory in the Indiana primaries a quote major flex and said that it showed quote that if you mess with the bull, you'll get the horns agree or disagree. I would take a cold shower. That was her. Like, was this a win for Trump? Yes. Had these incumbent senators defeated the Trump back primary challengers with them in a massive defeat for Trump, they probably would have led this show. Absolutely. But we have to put this in perspective. This is the incumbent president of the White House with the full backing of his political operation in the MAGA movement that spent nine million dollars two to feet five state senators. Also, like so Trump Trump is above water in Indiana. His approval is like he's like plus three in Indiana, which is that's bad. Well, I know it is bad, but like he's also probably plus 75 in a Republican primary. That's what I was going to say. So then you get to a Republican primary, then you get to a turnout in a Republican primary, which some of these state senators that won one with 7,000 votes, 8,000 votes, that was about it. So we're talking, like, talk about a low turnout Republican primary in Indiana. I fucking hope so. I hope he could win. It's been like $10,000 of vote. Exactly. Yes. It's so crazy. It's like, I would have been shocked if those senators held on. The real test comes in two weeks in the Kentucky primary with Tom Messy. Oh, yeah. That's the one. That's more of a test, for sure. We also have also in two weeks, I think, the Louisiana primary, unless that's in the next couple weeks, we have Louisiana primary with Bill Cassidy, who Trump is primary, but that is a three-way race. And so the Trump's chosen candidate probably will make the runoff, but probably won't break through. So that one's hard to see. But Cassidy might be toast anyway. But Trump still has sway in the Republican party. Of course, he's the incumbent president. He has just has less sway than he used to. Also, you know what? I'm happy for him to have all the sway he wants because he has a 35% approval rating. And if a bunch of Republicans want to tie themselves to Donald Trump and his approval rating is they head into the midterms. Best of luck. Yeah, except in one very notable exception, which we'll get to in one second. You mean where redistricting is headed right now? Yeah. I mean, this, the benefit for Trump here is a lot of these members do not, in the, in the states that have already voted, filing deadlines are passed. A lot of the state legislators would prefer to not take these extraordinary steps to redraw the maps in the favor of Republicans. And if they had any hesitancy to do so, the DNF primary will send a message that they better do it, or they will suffer the consequences in their 20-28 primaries. Like that's, that is the, we're more likely to end with Republicans maximizing to the extent they can the advantages given to them by the Supreme Court decision after Indiana than we were before. Now, is that going to add up to a ton of seats? That's an open question. But like if you, if you did not want to do this in South Carolina, it was one place where they did not want to do it, they may end up doing it now because of this. Yeah. And really you're talking about South Carolina and Alabama and Tennessee, which we just talked about. Yeah, because Louisiana was always going to go whether, whatever, whatever they thought about Trump, because that's, that, that was the state involved in the case. And Alabama still needs a court to lift an injunction. So they're waiting on that. South Carolina could go. And then that's about it. Like Mississippi is already thinking they're going to wait until 20-28. Georgia already said no. So you know, you're, you're right, but it's not like I would, I'm personally more nervous waiting for the Virginia State Supreme Court to rule on the referendum because that to me is a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's the four sweets. Yeah, we lose that four-seat swing, then Republicans will end up with a significant, not into insurmountable, but a significant advantage in the, in the midterms. I still think, even if we lost Virginia, I still think Democrats will be favored to take the majority, but the margin by which we would do so I think would be much narrower, thus making it harder to hold in 20-28. So obviously we can see this in just, you know, worry about what might happen, what might not happen. Is there anything Democrats can do about all of this in the, in the short and medium term? Yeah. I mean, what we're watching right now is incredibly infuriating to watch in Tennessee. They state with a significant black population, just carve out Memphis one of the city, one of the blackest cities in America and ensure it has no Democratic representation. That, I mean, it's, it's infuriating and it's deflating. And that's ultimately the goal, right? The people who do gerrymandering and voter suppression want you to, to give up. They want you to feel like your power has been taken away, so that you stop using your power. Like, that's, that's the ultimate win here. And so we obviously cannot let that happen. And here are just like three things and none of these are satisfying. What would be specific? None of them are satisfied. But here are the things where we can focus our energy right now. The first is we have to redouble efforts to take the House and hopefully the Senate in 2026. The reason for that is we need, that is the foundation for the governing coalition that we will have in 2029 with the Democratic president to actually pass things like a ban on partisan gerrymandering to do real electoral reform to make our system more small, the Democratic. The second thing, and this is critically important is we have to pour our time, our money, our resources into state legislative races because there is going to be efforts to redraw the maps in 2028, in 2030, and most importantly in 2032 after the next census. So we have to have as much power as we possibly can to draw the maps in as many places and as many, even in states where we can't take the majority. If we can get close to the majority, we can have it in potentially an influence on how those maps are dropped. This is absolutely important, this is where the future of American democracy is going to be absent some sort of ban on partisan gerrymandering is going to be decided in state legislative races and in governor's mansions for the map redraws. And we're going to live in a cycle of perpetual map redraws. The last thing here is we have to put pressure on the blue states where we have the ability to fight fire with fire, Illinois, Maryland, New York. In states where we have control but where we have put in place because we like good government bans on gerrymandering, like in Michigan, we have to put pressure on our politicians to look for ways like they didn't California, like they didn't Virginia to undo those bans to be able to compete here because we can't live in a world of unilateral disarmament and we cannot accept any democratic politician that does. It's a good list, I like that. And I do think that the good news is some of these democratic governors have signaled, I know that Kathy Huckle has in New York that as we look to 2028, they're going to redraw the map. They just couldn't do it in time for 26. All right. Last thing we have to talk about before you hear love, it's conversation with Tom Steyer. As you know, FBI director Cash Patel has been in hot water since a story in the Atlantic in mid-April, source to more than two dozen people about Patel's quote, conspicuous inebriation and unexplained absences, Patel filed a defamation lawsuit against the magazine and the writer, Sarah Fitzpatrick seeking $250 million in damages, MSNOW reports that Patel is also having the FBI investigate Fitzpatrick as part of an effort to uncover the leakers, which is unprecedented when the information involved isn't classified, though the FBI flatly denies that this is happening, the Atlantic also doesn't seem to know this is going on, according to their statement, but that is the reporting Fitzpatrick and the Atlantic responded by publishing another banger, apparently Cash has been, apparently Cash has been gifting people customized bottles of Woodford Reserve engraved with the FBI shield and Cash's name spelled with the dollar sign for the S, which is the parking trick is the most. It's perfect. It's just perfect. A lot of the FBI insider's source in the story said the bourbon freebies make them really uncomfortable, yeah, no shit, because they are a clear violation of FBI regulations around alcohol. A bureau spokesperson said that Cash reimburses the cost and that quote, the bottles in question are part of a tradition in the FBI that started well over a decade ago, though they declined to elaborate on that tradition and Fitzpatrick writes that when she ran that by a former FBI official, quote, he burst out laughing. Let me think about this also, Emma's now a Carolinigan and Candalinian reported right before we started that that Cash is in full panic mode about his job and he has been ordering polygraphs of more than two dozen former and current members of his security detail and other staff over all these stories about him being Jay Edgar Booser. No one has ever tried and failed harder to be cool than Cash Mattel. It's like he's every, what about JD Vance? He hasn't really tried that hard, I guess. No, he has not. He's barely, he's barely tried at all. I mean, he's seen him once try to be cool. He tried. Cash Mattel is handing out, like he, Cash Mattel's entire life is defined by being stuffed in a locker once and he is handing out bottles of bourbon to people who think he's ridiculous and he put a dollar sign in his name, like he's Kesha, like what are we doing? Is that what it is? I don't know, but it's like, like he thinks that's his cash, he's got it, Cash. He thinks it's cool. No, I get it. I get it. He thinks that makes it cooler. Can you imagine if that jack off, like gave you a bottle of bourbon with his, and some of them were signed too, so they're engraved with his name, but if you're lucky, you get an actual signed version of it, which the Atlantic reporter was able to buy online. I think she got it on eBay and it was sold by someone who got it at an event in Las Vegas where he spends much of his time in the Poodle Room at the top of the fountain blue. The Poodle Room is such a funny term. Yeah, what do you, do we know what kind of bourbon's in there? It's Woodford Reserve, so it's just, you know, it's just, yeah, it's Woodford. It's Woodford. And then they had to contact Woodford Reserve and they're like, look, we don't, you know, the, a lot of people engrave our stuff and it happens after, after we already sort of send the bottle out. - That's great. - I think it was you and I when I talked about, I still place a bet on that he's out by the end of the year. - Was it me and you? - Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. - Yeah, I think we-- - I still think that's-- - You said after the midterms. You can't be running around hand in out bottles of bourbon, being so drunk allegedly that your security detail, who you're now polygraphing, had to like send in a SWAT team to get you up in the morning 'cause you wouldn't wake up. And then just panic that you can't get into your email, thinking it means you're fired, and now you're giving everyone polygraph tests. I mean, that should just wild. - Yeah, I mean, we put a mid-level congressional staff or whose main job is podcaster in charge of the FBI. - The FBI. And it's like, I think people, 'cause you see like, you know, Pambondi getting fired at DOJ. Obviously, just department, very important. You see like Christy Nome at DHS, you see Pete Hegseth at DOD. But it's like, when you were the head of the FBI, like these are like the top federal law enforcement officials in the country, in the world, really. And it's kind of a hands-on job. It's not like you're the secretary, and you got a bunch of people in anything. Your job is to go be on TV and do the TV thing, and then like the whole place is running itself. Like, you're the fucking FBI director, man. This is a, so the worst place to put in someone this unbelievably unqualified and seemingly has plenty of issues. - Like personally, mind-blowingly was confirmed by the Senate. This was not just someone that Trump picked and installed in there, the United States Senate. Had hearings with him. - Tom Tillerson introduced him, by the way, at the, it is hearing. He's selling, he's selling merch. He's still selling cash merch on his website. - Which is like, I wonder like how many units is he selling of cash merch every month? - Let's just, let's just do the hypothetical here. So let's hypothetically say that you're Donald Trump and people around him, you're like, you know what? I know it doesn't make a ton of sense. But I think cash should be at the FBI. It's been his dream. He's always wanted to be cool. This is his best chance. I'm gonna do this for him in the gratitude, because Trump is a, you know, a very generous person and he wants to help people. So we want to do this. So then the idea would be like, yeah, we kind of know he's not fully qualified for this job. So we're gonna surround him. - With the strong number two. And there's only one man in the team. - Another podcast star. - I know. - It's like what we're doing. - Anyway, I feel safe. I feel safe. I'm gonna sleep well tonight. All right, Dan, when we come back, you'll hear Love It's Conversation with California gubernatorial candidate, Tom Steyer. (upbeat music) - PodSafe America is brought to you by Stamps.com. It's staggering that to this very day, many small business owners are still making post office runs or are stuck with expensive posted meter leases. It's 2026, enough. Mail and ship when you want, how you want with Stamps.com. With Stamps.com, you can send from your computer or phone 24/7. No long lines, no low supplies, open anytime. 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Right now you can try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. Go to Stamps.com and use promo code PSA to get 60 days risk-free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment that Stamps.com code PSA, Stamps.com code PSA. - US voters abroad. Go to votefromrabraud.org and click Request My ballot as to receive it by email. Questions? Don't delay. Vote from abroad.org. Longplay our docu-series exploring the people and forces shaping the South is back. Newsflash, the South is the new political epicenter of the country. Democrats are way on their heels in this region, but Republicans are going through their own reckoning in the South too. We're in the final stretch of the midterms and the political map has only gotten more competitive with new states and districts emerging as potential flips. So we thought it was time to get back out on the road and take a closer look at what's actually happening on the ground. Aaron Haines, journalist and expert on all things Southern politics, and I'm Jennifer Paul Mary, former White House communications director. Tune in on Mondays to Longplay Series on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Joining me now, he is currently running for a governor here in California to succeed Gavin Newson. Welcome back to the pod, Tom Steyer. John, it's nice to be back with you. All right, let's start with this. California is losing population to states like Texas. What is your diagnosis as to why that's happening? I think it's clear, to be honest, John. California is too expensive for Californians to live in anymore, and it starts with housing, but it certainly includes health care. We pay twice as much for electricity as the average in the United States of America. And of course, gasoline prices are going crazy all over the country, but including California. And in addition, I think what we're seeing from the Middle East is that we're going to have a big rise in food prices in the fall. So let's talk about the gas tax here in California, because I think it gets at something that I feel is a bit missing from the debate. I watched the debate last night. Boy, rowdy. So California has one of, if not the highest gas tax in the country. We spend more on roads than any other state. We also have the worst roads in the country. And I hear you talk a lot about the ways in which you want to change the tax code and raise revenue. But I'm curious how you view the role of governor in getting costs like that under control. Anytime you're running an organization, you have to demand accountability. And if you're running an organization, I think it's an old statement that if you can't measure it, you can't manage it. So to a very large extent, if you're going to be running the state of California and demanding that the roads be maintained well, so you're going to measure maintenance, how are the roads, and you're going to measure how much it costs to maintain them, then that's something that people are going to have to manage to. And it's a question of accountability and control. And I think it's quite clear in California in multiple places that that's not a system that's existed. It's not a system where people have been able to do that. And that's a management task. This is-- the governor is an executive function. And so, yeah, you have an organization to run. And you have an organization like every other organization in terms of how you manage that through the people and how you manage that through the numbers. So can you talk a bit about your experience in management? Because you started a hedge fund in San Francisco in 1986. You were an investor. My understanding of what your role would be as somebody who is running a hedge fund is you are investigating companies. You're looking into companies. You're giving me even feedback to companies. But you're not running organizations directly. You're running your smaller organization that's finding different companies and businesses and evaluating their management, as opposed to directly doing it yourself. OK, let me give you a different view on that than the one you just put in. I'm asking you, that's my impression. And basically, what you're saying is being an investor is doing an analytical job and a decision-making job, but not a management job is your point. But the truth is, if you're running an investment business, you have a choice very early on. Are you going to be the person who runs the analysis and the decision-making, Allah War and Buffet? Or are you going to manage the organization which involves all the normal things about management, hiring people, measuring people, holding them to account, building teams and doing strategy? And that's what I did, honestly. So very early on, it became clear to me that my job was to actually-- I had to make that choice. It was a very clear, distinct choice. And my job became managing people. And if you look at it, I've started a lot of organizations. And all of-- if we registered 1.2 million Californians, which we did, that's management. If you start a bank, a nonprofit community bank to try and go to the places commercial banks won't go and replace them so that you can serve underserved communities. That's management. The truth of the matter is, there are people like Warren Buffet. And if you've ever been to visit him in Omaha-- Haven't had the pleasure. Let me describe it. It's kind of like this room. It's him and an assistant that he's probably had for 50 years in a room. And he really is an investor. Do you think it's fair that my assessment of what you're talking about on the campaign trail, you seem to be more excited or interested or passionate about closing tax loopholes on corporations, reforming the tax code, bringing in revenue to pay for the things we need, than you are on the actual kind of reasons California. California has the highest per capita or one of the highest per capita spending of any state in the country. Texas is much lower. We're still losing people to these states. I feel you saying we have this affordability crisis we need to raise revenue. I don't hear as much about how important it would be to figure out why California is so expensive in the government. Why the government? Yes, why the government. But let me put it through this way. I have run organizations and I'm somebody who will go line by line and I will be a good steward of people's tax money because I understand very fully that every dollar we save every dollar we don't spend is a dollar we can spend on educating a kid it's a dollar we can spend on health care for people who need it. And so actually if you look at the people I started an organization from zero if you think I was not minding my pennies and actually measuring where they're I didn't have a salary. I didn't get paid. I knew that I had to be careful and in every one of the things that I've done. I've had to be serious about making sure that the money that is used is well used and I think that if you look at somebody who's run organizations that had to be careful about money. I'm the person who's done that and I feel like being a good steward of the money is critical. I will also say that for everybody who says they're going to fund the growth in the in services from waste fraud and abuse. We've seen that movie. It's called Doge. It failed. And by the way Betty E was the controller of the state of California for eight years. She's endorsed me. Betty is a highly competent, very smart professional person. She told me she found seven billion dollars of waste for abuse, which is a lot. But last night on the on the debate stage, I think that Steve Hilton said it was five hundred and forty billion dollars. Look, we've seen this movie in Doge. It failed completely. Do will I be a good steward? And look to me, John, this is a question of, are you going to set higher really good people? And are you then going to give them systems that enable them to oversee this and watch it and be good? Yes. Are we going to do that? Yes. Am I aware that the internal information systems of the state of California are several generations behind the time? That's me being nice. And so do I, is that something that I will take seriously? I'm telling you, if you go around this state, you can see that people are suffering. And the idea that I'm going to, I will not be profligate with tax dollars because every dollar that we save, every dollar that is misused, every dollar of waste, fraud and abuse, I believe, is the term is just money that we can use for people and I will not take that lightly. And so, you know, let's say you're going through the budget and you're looking for places to save. If we spend more people than other states, we don't get good results for it. We spend more on our roads. You're also talking about performing parts of the tax. So that clearly need reform for people that are not from California. We have a rule that's, that was passed by referendum that makes it very hard to change that really limits property taxes. And it really, if you bought a piece of commercial real estate in the 70s, you're paying extremely low rate on it. You want to close that loophole. But that money would then go into the, can I challenge some assumptions? One of the things that people think is what you just said, which is that we spend a lot of per pupil and we don't get good results. We have gone from being the number one education state in the United States to somewhere in the 30s. In the 30s, based on per pupil adjusted for cost of living, but that includes all the ways in which California is expensive because of how we're already smarter. Which is what I'm going after. But my point is that we are still spending a lot per pupil and not getting good results. It's just you have to adjust it based on all the other ways. Talking is fun. But if you're thinking about it from the standpoint of education for a second, the results, you're thinking about it in terms of, you know, cost. But let's talk about it in terms of how education is going in California and why we're not getting good results. The truth is getting good results is a pretty straightforward thing and people like to make it too complicated. And I used to think, you know, it's some different things. But the truth is that by far biggest determinant of student success is how good the teachers are. And getting good teachers is not magic. This is not like we need to conjure up, you know, something. The truth is you have to hire people who are really good. You have to support them and help train them. And then you need to retain them when they've gotten to a level where they're huge asset to the state. And we aren't doing that because you can say it's a lot of money compared to other states. But it's not a lot of money if you have to live in California. Right. Which is why I'm talking about bringing down housing costs. Which is why I'm going crazy on health care costs. Which is why I'm saying we're going to go after the electric monopolies and reduce electricity costs. Which is why I'm saying I'll do a, because it's like we need to drive down those costs so that we're competitive with other states. And we also need to make sure that teachers being paid enough so they can live in the district. So we can hire really good people. We should spend the money to train them. And then we need to retain them. And for, you know, it is true that if you step back and look at the 50 states, then the teachers look well-paid compared to the teachers in Mississippi. That is true. But the costs in Mississippi are much, much lower. And the teachers are most often living outside. These are the reason we're having trouble. It's very hard to hire teachers in California because they can't live on the salary. Well, we had, you know, there was a strike in San Francisco and people were mocking the teachers for going on strike because of what the salaries look like in real numbers. But of course it's because San Francisco is so affordable. Let's talk. Let's, I want to finish. I want to ask one more question about schools and I want to get to housing. So in January, Governor Newsom proposed reforms. So we have a convoluted system in which the Board of Education and the Department of Education are separate. Do you support those reforms to have more authority go up to the governor? I support reform. I'm going to answer your question with a different perspective. I never, I don't understand why that's not easy. Yes. You're spending so much money. Do you want to be powerful? And lining the system, one of the big issues in California, in education, but much more broadly is coordination of multiple agencies doing the same thing. Yeah. And therefore you, it's, you're talking about in terms of hiring more people. I'm talking about it. And let's take it to the fires. We're in Los Angeles. The fires in Altadena and in Pacific palisades. There were an awful lot of agencies trying to do the right thing. There was the city. There was the county. There was the state. There was no coordination. You're asking the, what I said is I want to reframe your question to do you believe in much clearer, simpler lines of authority, do you believe in not overlapping, you know, agencies doing the same task with different rules that people have to live up to, which is expensive, but it's much, it's much more than that. It actually prevents things from getting done. Right. Well, that's why I mean the question I'm saying under those circumstances. Of course, I'm in favor of that. Okay. But it's like, it's a bigger question than just the question you asked about education. Well, this one reform is just about, let's consolidate some of these authorities because one of the things that happens in the wake of fires is because the account, because the, the responsibilities are diffuse. The accountability is diffuse, and this is a proposal by the governor to make it down. And that's my point. And it's a bigger question than just education is all I was trying to say. Yeah. And of course, every case, this is a, you know, it's, it's critical. I was talking about response to fire because it was so poorly coordinated clearly. But it's also true in terms of housing very much so when you talk about all the different agencies for permitting. You know, it's like, okay, overlapping contradictory, expensive time consuming. Yeah. Big thing about housing is it takes a really long time to get it done. Here's why. Yeah. And so you're asking me, do I think it's better to simplify and actually coordinate so that in fact, the people who are at the end of the decision tree get faster, clearer decisions that are not contradictory. Why yes, I do. That's a management task. So let's talk about housing because you've been saying something that's confusing to me. And I just want to understand it, which is one reason mayors oppose additional housing is because it's because it's a critical point. It becomes an unfunded mandate for schools and healthcare in their areas. But at the same time, because of our property tax system, new homeowners, new builds are one of the ways in which you can get the property tax number back up and we have rules in California that require local funding for schools in part based on population. So I don't understand what's unfunded about it. Because what's really happening for the cities and counties is they used to rely on what you described accurately as real estate taxes, local real estate taxes for all that stuff. But nowadays they were just relied very much on the state to send them money. So when the state says we want you to permit 20,000 houses here and build them, they are then relying on the state. to send them the money in large part. Not, I take your point, but in large part, they're relying on the state to send them the money to fund that, and that's why they put in the big fees. You know, in some places in California, I think, including some places around here, the fee to build a house is up to 20% of the cost of the house, which is amazing. And, but they're doing it for reading, and I don't, it's not like these are wicked people who are somehow trying to rip people off. They are literally terrified that they're gonna put themselves in a position where they cannot take care of people, they cannot educate people. - I think it's a little. - There's Yimbiism, if that's your point. - Well, this is a sort of magnanimous fear for the future, they're listening to the constituents who are trying to fight housing and their communities. - There's a Yimbi part of this for sure, but there is also very much a money part of this. There really is, and I think that the money part, I am obviously sympathetic to, because they do have to provide those services. The Yimbi part, I understand one size doesn't fit on, but the truth is we need to build a house. - But why? - And there's gotta be. - But why is a new apartment or a new home, more of a liability than an old apartment or an old home, in a community when the only difference would be the property tax rate, and that property tax rate is lower for the old homes? - I understand that, but the truth is they don't get it. They don't have a choice about the old home. Like the old home exists and people live there. So that's just. - Well, I say that being mayor of an empty city would be very sort of a streamlined job, but it's still, like that doesn't get it. - But I think that they're looking for something different. If you look around California over the last 30 or 40 years, every city is wanted to attract business. Business pays taxes, business doesn't use services. Every city or county has tried to push back against housing because housing is expensive because of the people who live there, and so that's been the issue, and it's been the issue since 1978. - So how much of it in terms of getting this, because you're in favor of SB 79, which I appreciate, how much of the role of governor is about putting rules that localities can't break? Like how much of this is collaborative? How much of this is like. - It's both, of course. - Yeah, I mean, you know, 'cause what you're saying is, do you order them to do it or do you work with them to do it? And of course the answer's both. Like you've got to have, it's got to be a relationship, it's got to be something where you collaborate and work together, it is a partnership, but you've got to have some kind of stick at the end of the day. - So, honestly, I think because there is, I'm not a fool, the Yimbi people have endorsed me, but the truth is, the reason there's a Yimbi movement is 'cause there's a very strong Yimbi movement. - Yeah, so you put a lot of your own money into this race, there's also money being spent against you, and I was looking at who's funding these sort of ads, and they have, you know, their usual mysterious names, and some of it makes sense to me, right? Look, the utilities, because you have a proposal to go after the utilities, but I was surprised to see that the realtors have put in money against you, and if you're someone who's saying, "I'm gonna build a million houses," I was surprised to see, and a builder's group is against you, and I think the realtors, I do understand. I think they're worried that I actually am gonna protect renters. I think the realtors are much more about, am I, in fact, going to protect renters from spikes in cost, and am I going to push against landlords when I think that they're being abusive? - But presumably, the realtors' interest is transactions, and having properties turn over, and there's a misaligned incentive here, because of our silly property tax rules. When we put in rules that make sales more expensive, we ultimately can, in some ways, reduce the property tax around a bit because properties don't get sold. If realtors make money on properties changing hands, are they getting, are they getting something wrong and spending against, or are they just wrong about it? - Well, let me say this, too, John. - I'm curious. - Do I think that I'm bad for business? Hell no. Do I think that I'm gonna raise taxes on billionaires and big companies? Yes, and I've said it explicitly, but do I think that I'm the person in this race who understands business by far the best? Yes, and I think if you look at the things when I've taken on these corporate special interests, I've done it on behalf of working people. I've raised billions of dollars for education and healthcare without charging Californians a penny and I haven't hurt the economy one bit. My goal here, I always say it is shared prosperity. You can't share something you don't have. It's critical for us that actually, we compete really well around the world, which we do where half the growth in the United States. That's critical for us. We have to be a very successful dynamic economy. We have to be. The issue we have is we are that on average. The problem is most of the people in this state can't afford to live here and we have the highest poverty rate in the United States of America. And so when I talk about shared prosperity, I'm not joking, but it starts with prosperity and I'm gonna push very hard. Look, if we bring down housing costs, okay, that is great for everybody who needs to buy a house and everybody who needs to rent. Okay, it's also great for everybody who is an employee because their costs are much lower. If I talk about bringing down electricity costs, is that great for every family? Heck yes, that's putting money in every family's pocket. Oh, by the way, every business is pocket. Did I mention that? I don't need to talk about it. But if you go into the central valley, you have to use a lot of electricity to use water and farming. You have to irrigate and you have to move the water to where it has to go. California farmers pay three times as much for electricity to move water as Texas farmers. I wanna bring that down. It's a business thing as well as a human thing. In everything I'm talking about, health care, it is eating up businesses, it's eating up every family. You know, to be fair, the teachers who struck in San Francisco couldn't pay their health care bills. That's what they were striking about, health care. We really, and I went on the line to ask 'em 'cause I was like, how come you guys are striking? You haven't struck in 60 years and they're like, we can't pay health care. We were paying $1,000 to $2,000 a month for a family of three. We can't do it. And so when I'm talking about bringing down health care costs, yes, that's absolutely for every family in this state. It's also for every business in this state. I wanna make sure we're competitive with everybody, internationally and nationally. I want this state to lead. I also want us to be shared. I want this to be a state we're proud of where we say, we compete our ass off, we succeed, but you know something we don't leave people by the side of the road. We're the state that takes care of everybody in this state. - So let's talk about health care because I'm curious about how you see us getting towards a single payer system. 'Cause when I look at what your critique is, you talk a lot about the ways in which we have a for-profit system that tries to provide the least amount of care for the greatest cost at the same time in California, roughly half of the insured aren't sure through the public system and half of the people in the private market aren't sure through the nonprofit part of the private market. Most of our hospitals are nonprofit. And so in a lot of ways you can talk about the profits of like an anthem or a for-profit hospital system, but majority of what we're spending, we are spending outside of the for-profit system. So how do you get to a single payer system? - The great thing about a single payer system is it does take out the big profits from the health insurance. It does give you an ability to negotiate with everybody. And so that's not what people think about, but the truth is when you look at the costs that we're spending that are so much higher than single payer systems, it's 'cause we don't have an ability to negotiate and bring down costs across the board. So it starts with the health insurers, but it goes way past that. And the fact of the matter is, honestly, there'll be a lot of work on this to get the details right. And that is gonna be, as you'll remember from 1994, there's a lot of work on this to get the details right. But the truth is we don't have a choice. And that's what I keep saying to people, they keep saying it's a lot of brain damage, which it is. But you sound like you've done a lot of work to think about all these questions, including this one. - Not as much as you think. Now I'm kidding. - I'm gonna give you a B, okay. No, I'm teasing, but the truth is this, if you look at how much we're spending on healthcare and how the trend is, it's not supportable. It's honest to God not supportable. And so if you're sitting here this year and saying, well, we can, you know, if we cut this and we cut education and we do this and we do that, then we can make the budget work. But the truth is we're really, it is eating up every family. That's why the teacher struck. It's really eating up business. It is, and it's eating up the budget of this state. We don't have a choice. And if you look at the numbers, or I can send you the numbers, it's one of those things where you sort of go like, oh God, you know, people say, why would you want to do this? It's a lot of brain damage. It's very difficult. You know, there'll be lots of, you know, towing and frowing, all true. But we don't have a choice. And that, and we really don't have a choice. And there's, for everybody who says, which people did say on the stage last night, we're just gonna do it better. It's like, the reason I changed my mind on single pairs, people have told me that for so long. And it's like, you keep telling me, everything they said on the stage last night that we're gonna do to bring down costs. I heard 10 years ago. - Yeah, I guess what I like to be cynical for a moment. Like, I believe in Medicare for all. I was infuriated by the Democrats in Congress when I worked for President Obama, who stood in the way of a public option, and then even a Medicare buy-in for older people, which would have helped the whole system. But when I look at a state like California, I say like, actually, we do have a choice. We have a, for example, in our Obamacare exchange. It's actually a bright spot we were able to negotiate rate hike than even in a place like Texas. We're able to compete on this one lever. We have a better public system than states we're losing people too. If I'm trying to say, all right, we need California. You're right, we're this massive and growing economy. We're half the growth of the country. We also have a high unemployment rate. We need to figure out how to get people who are working for businesses, which means they have insurance already, to make an affordable life here. A single-payer system isn't necessarily something there. They're looking for it's not their biggest problem. The cost of health care is what they're saying, right? I'm just there problem. Then it's their employer's problem. And that's the truth. There's no way to get around what's going on in healthcare and it's overwhelming. And honestly, I was spending time with the nurses yesterday and they see this up close. The people who don't get care because it's too expensive to get care until it's really a disaster. The people whose lives get blown apart by getting sick. All the stuff that they see on a daily basis, human tragedy, where in fact a simpler system at lower cost would enable us to deliver. And John, I don't think we have a choice. There are a lot of things where you can say, Tom, this is a complicated problem with a lot of players and a lot of interests with high emotion. Agreed. But if you look at it, we honestly don't have a choice. If we think that healthcare is a right, look, obviously there's another attitude, which is the Trump attitude, which is let's kick people. Yeah. Medi-Cal. And it's not a right. And in fact, you know, we'll go back to the system where people don't get care or they get care of the emergency room. And obviously that what I'm trying to do with California is something different. Look, we are a really rich, successful, powerful state. We need to show what this 21st century looks like. We need to show what actually we can do as a democratic state to show. We have to show what we stand for. And what we have to stand for is healthcare is a right. That has got to be unquestioned. And then the question is, and we have to start, you were saying, am I going to be a good steward of money? Yes. That's what this is. This is saying, we're going to provide that at a price that we can afford. And that's going to be involved a lot of work. But that's the way it goes. And in housing, are we going to drive down the cost of housing? Yes. Is it going to be a lot of work? Yes. And that's the way it goes. And we're going to take on the electric monopolies and they don't like it. And they're spending tens of millions of dollars against me. But you know something, they keep telling us that twice the rate of everybody else in the United States is cheap. And we should just grin and bear it. That is not true at a time when electricity prices around the world are plummeting and ours are going up. So it's like, if you want change, you got to take on the status quo. And it's hard. But somebody's got to do it. And that's why I'm running for governor. So you have a little drawing on your hand, which is meant to tell you to be honest at all times. Is that the idea? What does it mean to hear? It's sincere, sincere, honest, do your absolute best because you can't control the outcome. So, you know, Katie Porter put you on the spot in the debate last night over this billionaire tax that's on the ballot. And I feel like she thought she was putting you on the spot because you're a billionaire who's spending a lot of money on this race. This tax is I think widely viewed as kind of a bad policy. And she thought you'd be wouldn't want to say you're against it, but wouldn't want to say you're for it. But then you just said that you're for it, which I think caught her off guard. That that was my read of it. But you don't think it's a good policy to have a one time surcharge as part of the budget. And yet you said you're for it. That's I think what was confusing about this year is what I said. I said, if it's on the ballot, I'll vote for it. Right. But going forward, we need to do more because it. So I said two things. Because it's a one time thing. And because it doesn't distribute the money throughout, you know, all the needs of Californians, it just puts it into one part of the budget, which is healthcare. Yeah. But are you worried at all that? California already has a progressive income tax. We are already a high tax state. A huge amount of our state budget comes from the wealthiest earners because of our corporate tax rate, which is also one of if not the highest in the country. I am all for reforming the tax code and a lot of this does flow from the property tax issue. But at the same time, if we are going to shift more of the tax burden towards the top and we see wealthy people leave the state, the critique would be you're going to start to see that revenue need to come from somewhere else, which means you're going to start moving it down to the bottom. I feel like you're coming out in favor of this tax because it's sort of the wages of being a billionaire in the race. And so you kind of have to say you're forward even though long term, you don't think it's a good idea. That's my take. Let me make this point. If you actually look at how the richest people in this state make money, it is not the way you're describing as being taxed. You know, the income tax is based on income, right? But we have the cap gains rate in the state as well. Yeah. And in order to get capital gains, last I check you have to sell. Okay. So you're basically saying the way you pay tax as an individual in this state is either to get a wage or salary or a bonus or to sell your stock in something at a gain. Those are the two things, right? David and Daniel. Yeah. But these stocks don't pay dividends. It's time to be clear. But actually, that's not the way this works because if you actually are one of these people who starts, which I've said repeatedly, I'm in favor of a new brilliant idea company and the thing blows up and you end up being worth a ton of money. You're worth a ton of money on paper, right? You own stock. So now John owns $10 billion worth of stock in a crypto company. Okay. You haven't paid any tax. You know, whatever you're being paid is a salary relative to your worth is diminimous, right? If anything. But what you have is a whole bunch. And so let's say, but you know, the truth is you want to buy a big house or whatever the hell you want to buy at it. Let's not get into, you know, all that name calling, but you want it. Okay. So do you sell your stock? No. You don't sell your stock. You borrow against your stock. So now you still have $10 billion worth of stock, but you have $100 million of debt against the stock, which you still own and you've paid zero tax. So the question is, in the real world, when we're seeing this explosion of wealth, which we're seeing in companies that do not pay dividends, thank you very much because none of them do. The way they pay dividends is by buying in shares because it's single tax, the dividends are double taxation, that's single taxation. That's been true. God, for 50 years, no one pays dividends because it's taxed. So instead, okay, now you have your $10 million. You've never paid any tax. So the question is, actually, is this such a bad idea? As I said, it's a one time thing for a long term problem. It doesn't go far enough and it doesn't spread the money fairly, but the truth is it's a step forward, which is what I was saying. So no, I'm not being cynical and dishonest. I'm saying, look, is it perfect? I said it wasn't perfect, but I said if it's on the ballot, I'll vote for it. And that was the truth. I hear that. Do you worry all about the, like we have extraordinary wealth at the top. We have higher unemployment. We have people fleeing the state because of affordability. If we start trying to solve the problem by taxing at the top, more than we already are, which we are a high-tech state, we will start to see even that bright spot, which is some of the biggest tech companies of the world are based here, some of the most profitable businesses in the world are based here. They're not hiring enough. Look, so if the people leave, that's one thing, right? You now are worth $10 billion and you don't want to pay any tax on it ever. Some move in a Florida. So you're moving to Florida, you know, living in Florida. I'd like to point out to you, John. I'd rather be a millionaire in California than a billionaire in Florida, you know what I'm saying? Me too. But the thing that is, that I do take seriously, is the idea of business is leaving. Because what I said to you is, everything I'm doing is to make us more competitive from business standpoint, every single thing. So business is leave, that's a different thing. And last night on this stage, if you'll notice they mentioned four businesses that are left, right? Tesla. You on Musk. Palantir. Palantir. Salesforce now. Oracle. Oracle. Charles Schwab. Charles Schwab. Anything that comment about those companies that you've noticed? You tell me. Come on. The Trump people, is that what you're saying? Every one of those guys is a right wing person. And that's why they left. They didn't leave just because of their fears about taxes. They didn't leave because, you know, somehow this people may leave because of this tax because this is about billionaires, but the corporations that left don't like what California stands for. Ellison. Oracle. Musk. Tesla. Charles Schwab, who actually I have a lot of respect for, but is a long-term strong Republican. And Palantir, which is, oh my god. So in answer to your question, do I, I want us to be the best place to have a business. I want it to be the best place to start and grow a business. And I'll do any, I will, if you listen to what I'm saying, everything I'm saying includes the prosperity part of shared prosperity. And I will be a dog about that. And I want to make the point we are going to, everything I'm saying is we're going to support businesses because that's where we get employment and that's how this state grows and we're part of, we're the place that imagines and builds the future. So let's talk about Hollywood for a second and thank you for your time. I think we've gone a little over. But have we? You've been very prolics, I notice. What am I? Prolex. Prolex? What's prolics mean? I'm kidding. It's talkative. Oh, I've been talking. I feel I don't know. I feel like I have my talking too much. No, I'm just giving you our time. Okay, thanks. Thanks for saying that. So on Hollywood, speaking of like sort of what has made California powerful and to begin of our economy and our culture, we've seen jobs in flee from LA. We've seen them free from California. They've gone to other states. They've gone to other countries. It is outrageous to me that American film and TV studios find it more affordable to shoot in London than they do in Los Angeles. We've just increased the tax breaks and they're trying to do some reforms. What would you do both sort of as a leader, as a power with the power to convene and on a policy level to ensure that California remains the home of film and TV production. So let me say, I agree with your premise. This is a critical industry for this state and this city. Absolutely. And people are not out competing us by being better. They're out competing us by buying the business. And that can't happen. And so I said, look, first of all, one of the things that makes me feel better is the tax credits that we give for every dollar we get back a dollar and 14 cents. So this is not like a cost. This is actually an investment that returns a pretty darn good investment to the state of California. And I think this is a critical industry for us. So I don't want us to lose because other people are giving more tax credits than we are. And therefore we lose all of the. Once we've lost this ecosystem, which is the best in the world by far, we're not getting it back. It's way harder to rebuild a business than to continue a business. Just, I mean, that's just true. And so I think it's really critical that we support it through the tax credits. Secondly, I want to make sure that there aren't regulations in this city and this state that make it hard to shoot production. And particularly for small productions, I want to make sure that there aren't regulations about, you know, how you're supposed to do it and all the things you're supposed to do before they're very expensive. That means you can't do it here. I want to make sure that people can compete here fairly because we're going to win. And we have to. You know, you were saying, you know I'm worried about business leaving. I want our businesses to win. I am competitive, John. I am on team California. That's the team I'm on. I want to win and I want to win as a team and I want to have it so that we sit here and go, this is how you're supposed to live. Really smart people work in their ass-off. And let me say this. I don't think everybody who works in sort of the high-fly-in-fancy jobs notice. The people who work at low-paid jobs work their ass-off. They kill themselves for very low wages. They are very skilled. They are very sincere, hard-working, you know, high-integrity people. Seriously. And so I'm not joking about it. When I say I'm on team California, I'm really on team California, but everybody's on the team. And certainly the entertainment industry is absolutely on the team. So I'm going to fight like hell to make sure that they can succeed and that they can stay here and help build up the state that we want. Last question, because I do want to touch on it because I think it does matter to people. You spent like $147 million so far of your own money on this race. You're watching it closer than I am. I hope somebody should be watching. That's a lot of money. 120 million on ads. You know, you have put yourself near the top of the field. But when Swalwell drops out, a lot of people that support him seem to have gone to other candidates like Basari, you sort of stay there. And it's not about the polls. There does seem to be a reluctance to see someone who is using their personal fortune to try to buy their way into name recognition and into politics. And there's something ugly about that in a democracy. And even if you view yourself as someone who would be a great governor and so therefore are willing to pay that expense, you have to see it as a system that rewards people that made vast sums of money in often in unsavory ways, including yourself, who can then turn around and try to kind of paint themselves in another way for the public. What is your response to people who feel that sense of discomfort with a billionaire running for office? Look, I think there are two things you're talking about. One is the one you're talking about, which is just money and politics. And the other one is how people feel about billionaires. Because it's both. So let's start with the easy one. People are skeptical of billionaires. Me too. We've seen people be incredibly arrogant, selfish, self-interested, obnoxious, you know, unfeeling. Yes, I agree. I'm skeptical too. And it's also true that the way that money works in American politics is completely out of control and has been at least since Citizens United in 2011. But it's also true that right now the way this system works is through money is just through money from big corporations who are protecting their bottom lines. It's through billionaires who absolutely don't want to pay tax. And they are absolutely willing to support including people from Palantir, including people from all the companies we were talking about, even though they aren't here anymore. They're willing to support people who promise they'll never tax them. So the idea that somehow we have this democratic system that exists and everybody has a, is not true. And the question is, do we need someone in this system who's willing to go after the corporate special interest that actually run this state, which is why they're coming after me because they like it. And their profits are based on their control of this state. I don't know if you saw it, but I think yesterday in committee in Sacramento, the head of WUSPA, the Western States Petroleum Association, said he thought it was the fiduciary duty of oil companies to take advantage of the Iran war and gouge Californians as much as possible. So in answer to your question, do I think somebody has to take on these corporate special interests? Do I think somebody has to stand up for working people against billionaires? I do. And if there was someone else doing it, I would be fine. But if you actually want to change something, sometimes you have to change it. And they are spending tens of millions of dollars against me because they think I'm sincere too. And I am. And so do I think that that's something that needs to be done? I do. And if someone else were doing it, I'd be fine. Really? I'd go back and I asked a bunch of people if they'd do this before I decided to do it. You don't think Katie Porter is willing to take on special interests. You don't think Manhattan is taking on special interests. I mean, they're other people in the right. They're not. I think Matt Maynard is taking on the interest. Well, he's a reformer. Maybe not taking on the special interests. I'm asking you. He's taking money from the oil companies. He's taking money from the people who are against single payer. No, he is not there. They're participating in a system that's broken. They're not billionaires, right? I agree. This is what you're asking. Are we going to change the system? And I'm saying, well, the people who you're projecting, it's a Katie Porter. You don't think Katie Porter is hostile. I mean, if she were doing better in the polls, they'd probably be spending more against her too, right? I mean, she's hostile to special interests, but she doesn't have your money to get ads up, right? That's a real thing. So the question is, can someone win and do this? That is the actual question, John. Can someone be good-hearted? There are lots of good-hearted people who I would be happy if they won. The question is, can someone actually do this? And as you point out, for a while, apparently, Eric Swalwell was leading in the polls. And Eric Swalwell, it turned out that there were bigger issues, but all along, there was no question that he was chocolate to every interest in this state. That was his goal. And they were thrilled. And he was in the lead. So when you talk about, is there someone who will take on this special interest? I think to describe it. Have you ever said it as a reformer? I'm sorry. I said that if I did. I'm just saying, someone has to do this job and actually do it, not try to do it, not give it a nice college try and then go off and play p-knuckle. Somebody has to actually do the job. And that's what I'm trying to do. Really hard. Tom Steyer, this is a great conversation. Thanks for talking to me. Really appreciate it. I'm Miss Long Island. That's our show for today. Thanks to Tom Steyer for coming on. I'll be back in the feed on Sunday with a conversation with Senator Rafael Warren. Bye everyone. Paz de America is a cricket media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Ferris Safari, with Reed Cherlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill. Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Heffko, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, Carol Pellavi, David Tolls, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Sengle. Our staff is probably unionized with the writer's guild of America East. Longplay, our docu-series exploring the people and forces shaping the South is back. I'm Aaron Haines, journalist and expert on all things Southern politics. And I'm Jennifer Paul Mary, former White House communications director. Tune in on Mondays to Longplay Series on YouTube for wherever you get your podcasts.