Isaac Rochell Opens Up About Binge Eating, The Dark Reality of the NFL & Finding Purpose After Football

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. I crave the type of content that you're talking about. I actually felt insecure. Oh my God, am I going to cry? Let me just unload everything. New episodes every Wednesday. Leave those filters at the door because it's time to get real. Hello everybody and welcome back to RealPod. I hope that this episode is finding you well. It was such a fun one to record. Joining me today is Isaac Rochelle. Who's not only a friend of mine and Max's. We love him and his wife, Allie. She's been on the podcast before, but he's a seven-year NFL veteran. He played Division I football at Notre Dame and then spent seven years in the league. He's a true stud through and through. And today we're going to hear so much about the behind the scenes life and grind of being an NFL football player. And this conversation was so refreshing for me because it truly felt like we were just catching up at coffee or lunch. And I feel like we related on so many things about the athlete experience. There were so many eye-opening moments that Isaac shared. He talks about the wild rise to TikTok fame that him and his wife experienced back in 2020 and how that affected their marriage and their relationship and what it was like to grow through that. We also get into GLP-1s and body image issues. That wasn't something I expected to talk about with Isaac, but he's so transparent and thoughtful about so many of the important topics buzzing around right now that it came up. So I'm so excited to be here. And I really feel like we both had so many insightful and interesting things to share. So make sure you stick around. That part's at the end. And it's really juicy if I do say so myself. I just love this conversation so much. I feel like you're going to feel like you're hanging out with me and Isaac talking about sports, the athlete life, identity, building a career you're passionate about, and navigating body image issues in a world that's constantly telling us to get smaller. If you are not already following Isaac on Instagram and TikTok, make sure that you do. It's just Isaac Rochelle. He's hilarious. I love his videos. I love his content. And you can also catch him on NFL Network as a sports broadcaster on Good Morning Football. So without further ado, please help me welcome friend, pro athlete, advocate, and board member of The Hidden Opponent, Isaac Rochelle. Thank you so much for doing this. I feel like you're so busy. It's absurd. I don't. Yeah, it's and we always plan on it not being busy. We being Allie and I, and then it just. Always is busy. And then as we just talked about, the 3 a.m. wake up for TV just throws a wrench in everything because it affects your sleep. So then even if you're not busy, you feel busy because you're tired. Yeah. Yeah. So this is great though. I'm glad I'm here. And then do you go to bed early because of the wake up? And then how does that work with like daddy duties and all that? For sure. So luckily, Scotty goes down at 730. So put her down and then I sleep in a separate room because it's not that many days. It's also like important. Part of my career. So it's like I like to be well rested. Yeah. And Allie understands that. So, yeah, I mean, it doesn't affect family time. And honestly, like if I'm not doing this, I'm like already home. Right. And then I get full day with Scotty, which is great. I'm like, this is literal dream job in TV. It's going to get a little bit busier because you guys are expecting another girl. Congratulations. It's the best. I'm so excited. It's another girl. And yeah, we're going to get rocked. I mean, like you're at zero, but like zero. Zero to one rocked us. And I just can imagine one to two is going to be like that times two. Do you have anything that you guys have been thinking about or talking about that people have warned you with the one to two transition that you're like, we know we're going to try to do this? Yeah, I think our issue is that some parents sleep train and like they're like they're going to cry it out. We're just like literally the opposite. Every parent has their tactic and that's fine. We co-sleep. Like I love sleeping with our daughter and cuddling and whatnot. So like I think for the next child. Although we have to be more diligent with the sleep habits. So then we're not caught with like two kids not sleeping well. It's just a whole issue because you're already not going to sleep well, but yeah, sleep will be the biggest thing. Okay. So you're like, that's one thing we did with Scotty that we might try to do differently with the next daughter. And is there something specific that you're keeping top of mind knowing you're already a girl dad and you're going to be even more of a girl dad? Like what's the most important thing for you raising women? Yeah, well, let's start with what's the most important thing? Like what was the biggest piece for you with your dad, especially as an athlete? That's a good question. I always credit my dad for encouraging me to do everything my brothers could do. Yeah. It was never like, oh, I'm going to go teach them how to camp and not you or they're going to learn how to drive a boat and you're not like. I love the campings. I know. I don't know why I came up with that. But like or like my dad's super wildernessy. So like tying a specific knot. Like he was never like, oh, no, go hang out with your mom. It was always like he wanted me to know how to do everything. That the guys could do. And I loved that. I had a good friend who told me, like, you're not a girl dad until you have more than one girl. And like, I feel that because like now I feel like. What I say, especially like having a following, like I contribute to the ecosystem of women's sports, women as leaders, women as everything. And it's like I feel like the obligation definitely became more serious. It was always there. But yeah, now more so. You obviously are a former NFL player, a former college. Athlete now transitioned into being a full time content creator, dad, sports broadcaster. Crazy. What do you think is like one of the biggest things you took from sports that allows you to be successful? Yeah, in fact, I mean, where do we start? You and I have had dialogue about like the grind. And I know you like I've seen the TED talk. I've seen all this stuff because you're a beast. It was so unhealthy, right? Like the structure of college sports specifically, because I think pros is very different. The structure of college sports. College sports is so unhealthy. Like I actually saw a TikTok video where a girl was like my day from hell. And she was like going through a college athlete's day. So true. It's tough, too, because I agree that the student athlete schedule and lifestyle is like insane. It's so bad. But I also can totally understand how you're not going to win a national championship if you're not training that much. You know what I mean? Totally. Well, I think it's complicated because like you're also dealing with 18 and 19 year old kids. Yeah. So then it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, you're not going to win a national championship if you're not training that much. It's like, you almost have to over structure things, but it's crazy. Like I was just thinking back to when I saw that video on TikTok, thinking back to college days and it was just like dark. Like, and you described it in your TED talk. Like, it's brutal. Yeah. Did you experience any mental health struggles? I know we've talked about it at like a high level because you're on the board of Hidden Opponent, which we're so grateful to have you a part of that. Shout out. But I feel like I've never really heard you talk about like specifically what you've been through. I think my mental health struggles came. More in pros. And I know I just said like pros, it's a different story. Not as bad, but I think you have, like, I use the term cortisol. Like, I think your fight or flight that you develop in college just carries over. Even now is like a husband, dad, life stressors like that carries over. So everything felt so intense in college down to like how a coach might even like facial expression, everything. It just like hits you. And I think that's where I really started. The struggles in the NFL were like, you know, you get released or like you switch teams and it's just like every day you're going into the facility, you're miserable. Like, I've never clinically felt depression. But like when I was with the Browns, for instance, or the Colts, like both those scenarios, like I was pretty darn close to what like being depressed would feel like because you're just like, I hate this. And keep in mind, it's like the NFL, like I'm making good money. Yeah. Like the Colts was the best deal I ever signed. And I was just like. I literally hate this. Because why? I feel like when you're in a toxic environment, there's like a cliff, right, where it's like chill, chill, chill. And you can deal with the toxicity and the stress. And then it just gets really bad. And like when it happens, it's hard to undo. And it puts you in that state of like overanalyzing coaches, overanalyzing conversations. Like very much. I was very much the type of person like I'd walk away from a combo with a teammate and I would be like evaluating. Like I'm like, he hates me. Right, like they think I'm bad. Yeah. Yeah. Or like, you know, I had a bad play and I'm like, then I talked to a teammate about it. And I'm like, dang, they probably think I'm a horrible football player. And I'm like, dang, my coach probably thinks I'm a horrible football player. Like I'm awful. And then I have to like, it's just like this loop. So I think that's what it was. Like I just fell off the cliff of toxicity. And then it was like, it's tough. I mean, you probably experienced it dealing with coaches. Didn't you say your coach in college was, you had like a challenging experience? No, I definitely did. It's so interesting because like. I think if I, me now at 28, knowing what I've known, how I've healed, what I've learned, if I were to go back into my freshman year, I would be able to navigate it so much differently. You're just so young and you don't know a lot and you're so inexperienced and there's a maturity, right? And so I think as I've gotten older, I've just realized like the lack of support, warnings, check-ins, things I needed. There's an environment that literally it's designed for a 20-year-old. 28-year-old not an ape. teen year old, you know, and that's not my fault, but. No, you're so right. Well, and even like just being able to objectively say like this character in my life, like there's a problem with them. And I think like when you're in college athletics and even like my mom was a teacher, so she instilled this mindset. You're just always the wrong one. Even when you're not wrong, you're wrong. Yeah. And I feel like as you get older, like even in my NFL career, like realizing like, no, this coach is actually just not a nice guy. He's probably miserable in every phase of his life. I can't let that affect me. You know what gets me? I wish I could go back and like have stood on business. These grown men yelling at 18 year old women. It's like, it's so. That was happening. Like that was happening with you. I just, I just can remember. No, no, no. I'm like, call them out. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. My senior year, I just will remember core memory. I'm watching film with the position coach and I'm in a room where like all the coaches are. And it's just me and this coach in the back of the room. Like we're doing our own thing. Yeah. Probably you, by the way, going above and beyond, like, can I watch film? Exactly. Yeah, I get it. And you know, my personality, I'm like, oh yes, yes, yes. Like I stepped with my right here or yes, I should have seen the block. And I'm just like engaged and I'm talking out of nowhere. Coach goes, Victoria. And he's like, screaming. And he's like, stop interrupting and just listen. Whoa. Like, and it was like really like other coaches in the room. Yeah. This is a coach that wasn't involved in like what we were talking about. This was the head coach who just says, just like yell, scream at me. Whoa. I was actually so shook. I think that cause coach actually watching film with me was equally shook because like he, I don't know, we have our own relationship and I'm affirming the coach. I understand the criticism you're giving me. I see what you're pointing out in the film. I'm going to do that differently. Like, that's just how I'm learning. And then out of nowhere screams at me. And I'm like, that is so inappropriate. It's so uncalled for. So I do think like just these coaches, especially the male coaches who yell at like young female athletes is insane to me. Both of my daughters end up college athletes. I would lose it. The yelling as a coach, it just seems like an inefficient communication tactic as a coach. This episode is brought to you by Premier Protein. And I love Premier Protein so much. I feel like I don't go a day anymore without having a protein drink because it is just so hard to ensure that we're getting enough protein and the amount that we need every single day. 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So if like Max were to hear this example, he's like, bro, bro. He's like, I was getting it 10 times worse when I was 13, you know? First of all, absolutely. So what was that like when you felt like you had to just tolerate it? Because that's what it meant to be like tough and a champion and a dude. Yeah. Well, let's start from the latest, being in the NFL. There were situations where coaches would call me out and be wrong, maybe raise their voice, and I would be like, that's not true. Like in the meeting in front of people, because you have to hold your own in those situations and just be like, dude, this is ridiculous. Like, yada, yada, yada. When I'm younger, absolutely. It was like Notre Dame. I mean, you're just getting torched and like, this is just how it is. This is the rite of passage. It sucks though. There's just a lot of really miserable coaches. And I think it just really challenges the athlete. And it's crazy because you can have a miserable coach that could literally alter a player's life. Like we talk about the football. Fight or flight mode and like, you know, how they're building their worldview and framework. They can ruin somebody. Yeah. It's really sad. But to answer your question, end of my career, it was like, no, we're not doing this. I mean, it's like, I'm almost 30. You're not just going to yell at me. And did you feel like you could open up to some of your teammates about like, dude, this feels brutal right now, or this is tough, or this part of this is insane? Or did you feel like in the NFL, people kind of kept to themselves? Totally. I had a coach with the Colts who was like, dude, you can't stand this guy. Like didn't have a good relationship with him. He can't stand me by the way. So it's very mutual. So it's safe to say, and you get this, like there would be those film sessions where it's just like Isaac, somebody else could do something wrong. And somehow it comes back to me and I'm the example of like doing stuff wrong. So like when that individual would yell at me or whatever, like we'd leave meetings and be like, dude, what was up with him? Like, why is he in such a bad mood? Like, and maybe like we'd make fun of him. Cause you is when I first got to the Colts, I didn't have like those teammates that I felt like were really friends. You have built in friends. Cause by association, it becomes really challenging when you're getting yelled at. And you're like, I don't really have anybody right now to vent to. And that's where I think things got really like lonely for me for like with the Colts, for instance, where I don't, I feel like I'm a stranger in this locker room. I feel like my coach hates me and it just becomes really isolating. And so that was like a dark point in my career. Like we talked about earlier. And what was your main source of support? Like, was it Allie? Yeah, but here's the thing. where it becomes super challenging. And Ali and I have talked about this. Like Ali is moving around for my NFL career. And then she's in a foreign city. She also has no friends, by the way. So then she's at home by herself for eight hours. And then I come home and I'm negative. And there's a turning point where she was like, you can't come home and be negative every day because I don't talk to anybody. So my only interaction with a human being is like them moping around. So it's tough. I mean, it was so tough. Yeah. Cause you have a burden. You have a burden. And a lot of people look at the NFL from the outside and they're like, you know, I'm guilty of this too. You know, I have a husband who that was his dream and like, it didn't work out for him. And so we would maybe look at the NFL and be like, anyone who makes it in there, how are they not like on top nine? But I feel like you could almost tell me like what percentage of NFL players, because they're so few. That are like the household name, Josh Allen's Christian McCaffrey's that are like actually living that life. And then there's probably 90% of people in the league who have more of a situation closer to yours. Totally. I would say 90% is like true. Like you just look at NFL rosters, 80 to 90% of the guys are like, it's a revolving door, right? Or even if it's not a revolving door at some point during the year, they are feeling like they're going to get released, which by the way, is the worst feeling in the world. Going to work and being like, I might get fired today is there's no worse feeling. And even my career, I played with the Chargers for the first four years of my career, one contract played all the way through. I didn't feel like that then. Like that was a very positive experience. I was in the 20, 10 to 20%. That was like, I'm not worried about getting fired. I'm playing. This is great. But seeing the other side, yeah, you realize this is more guys. It also, the league is made up of guys in their first four years. That's like 70%. Guys in their first four years. And those are years that, you know, the average career length is two and a half years. So you figure most of those guys are going into work every day, stressed that they're not going to keep their job, which is, like I said, the worst feeling. And then at some point during your NFL career, Ali starts to get a lot of attention online. Yeah. Tell me about this. It was crazy. Well, so COVID year, were you deep on TikTok at the beginning of the COVID? Yeah. 2020. I was on there. Yeah. We were all like proudly spam posting. That was the true days of spam posting. That was insane. That was when you could like pump out five a day and get like 50K new followers overnight. Yeah. It was crazy. I got 100,000 was like my first big gain. 100,000 followers. I'm like, bet. This is great. Yeah. So she started to gain followers my fourth year with the Chargers, went to the Colts. And that was the first time where teammates were like, your girl's like huge on social media, isn't she? But the other side, and we're just talking about a lot of the negative stuff with sports, which is fine. That was also the first year where coaches recognize like, oh, you guys have a social media, like a TikTok following, which at that point, like to a 60 year old football coach, TikTok is like for little kids. So then like I would have a coach, like I had that same coach be like, yeah, I had one bad practice. Right. And I was always like studious, locked in, like didn't have any bad steps in place. And he's like, well, maybe if you weren't on TikTok so much, you could know your playbook. I'm like, bro, that's what we're going to do. As we're leaving the meeting, he says, I'll never forget it. Cause it's just like, bro, come on. I hate that shit because it's like, God forbid you have something you enjoy when you walk off the field. Like literally, okay, wait, parallel life. When I gave my TEDx talk, which I was a teenager, I was standing up for something that was really important to me. And I had a coach, to me say about that, just never, ever acknowledge it. I got lucky that the day I was supposed to deliver it was not on a practice day. Cause otherwise I wouldn't have been able to give it. And he said to me, when are you going to stop doing all this stuff? Whoa. And he said it like gets a distraction, like purposely being a little condescending after a talk that I've had people tell me like saved their life. And he's like, when are you going to stop doing all this stuff? And then like, just kind of walks away. And then I'm left there feeling like, similarly, God forbid we find something we enjoy out of the sport. So I can only imagine how you felt when like you made an innocent mistake. Everyone's no, one's a perfect player. We all make mistakes. That's the game. You shouldn't be, by the way, that's the point. They're getting better. He attacks that. Yeah. It's ridiculous. So immediately lost respect for that guy. Cause I'm like, you're not even taking the time to understand why this would be important to me. So this relationship's effectively over. I also had another teammate, Romeo Okora, played with him in college, super successful in football, and then he's been successful afterwards. He's like photographer, videographer, like very respected in those fields. And he had a coach. It was like, you just need to put your camera away. And like, it's like, bro, you guys could release this guy. Why would you not be encouraging guys to, you know, have passions and build their career and their ticket after the game? Like so many people who retire from the league and are sold off and they turn to alcoholism, depression, because that they never had that plan B. And I think that's actually something that we need to adjust with athletes is it's always when I win, don't consider the, if don't consider the plan B champions only think about it's going to happen. And it's like, that's so unhealthy though, for actually the 99% of you that won't make it. Yeah. You have to be okay with there being another thing. And now you and you and your wife have this incredible career and opportunity that you've built. And I bet you there's so many guys who must have, who might've thought it was a little silly or whatever, who are now like, why didn't I capitalize when I was in the league? The amount of guys that hit me up now is ridiculous. Well, also like, let's keep in mind, I just came from NFL network. I was like, not a hall of fame athlete. And I, and I am not like this football guru, like some of the other guys on TV point I'm trying to make is it's most TV people are NFL gurus or hall of famers. Like my platform has given me this opportunity to continue talking about football and continuing to stay involved, but it's crazy. And I had one coach, Anthony Lynn, one of my favorite coaches of all time. He's head coach of the chargers. When I was there all four years, she was the only coach that came in and we started the off season. And he goes, my most successful players always had stuff going on. Like they always had other stuff. He was like, if you need to go finish your degree, go do it. If you need to get another degree, go do it. If you want a side hustle that you're making money, go do it. Because like, he had players, he had a running back that he referenced that was making more money off the field. And he was like, his best years were when he was successful off the field. Cause then it's not, it's not fight or flight. If you have a bad play, you're not like, man, my family's not going to eat and not saying that's the scenario, but it's shameful. It's gross. I saw a post about someone on the Rams right now who makes, I think like a million a year. And then they were like, let's cut that in half because of taxes. Like now spending on family, you know, expenses, all that stuff, like living in a normal apartment, like, you know, it quickly whittles down. Obviously that's a lot of money and a huge privilege, but it's not, everyone is swimming in the $50 million contract that we so often see. No, not at all. I mean, my rookie minimum, and it's good to talk about it now. Cause like in California, like you have to make six figures to be comfortable. My rookie minimum was four 65. So then you cut that in half. I got released, like didn't play. I was not making that much money when you think about like the landscape. And then I got put on practice squad and like every two weeks I made $7,500 my first year, which is nothing when you think about it. Like I'm in the NFL practicing with these guys and that's like all I was making. So you're right. 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So like, I would have teammates be like, dude, are you cool with like people calling you Mr. Cooch? I'm like, bro, I could care less. I think it's awesome. I mean, like, what's funny is like our life up to this point has been documented before I knew I was going to have two girls. So I'm glad that that's the stamp. I can't undo that. They're like, oh yeah, my dad was like, super supportive of his wife. Like when they go meet a guy and they're. They're dominating in whatever field, they need to have that as their standard. But yeah, I mean, it's the greatest thing that ever happened. But so yeah, for people listening who are like Mr. Cooch, so Isaac's wife is Alison Cooch. And I think typically in society, we see that the wife is usually, she would be Mrs. Rochelle, but she garnered a lot of attention from calling him publicly Mr. Cooch and then got all of her fans to be like, that's Alison's husband. That's Alison's husband. Because usually it's, that's Isaac's wife. It's crazy. I don't know, like, if she's. I don't know if she said it first or how it happened. It was just like overnight. It was just like Mr. Cooch. Also, I signed with the Raiders in 2022. And there were literally like, somebody put up a billboard that was like, welcome to Vegas, Alison's husband. And it was like a whole thing. I mean, it was crazy, but I'm just proud of her. So what's your message to the men out there who do feel threatened by a woman's success? Yeah, grow up. It's even hard for me to even give advice, because I'm so removed from like, that mindset. I'm like, what would that look like in our household if I was like, intimidated by it? Here's what's challenging, though, because I did play in the NFL, and I've had like a successful career. Maybe I'm just more confident and don't care. So maybe it's, it's grow up and be more confident. Check yourself. Look in the mirror, because they're probably insecure, which is why they can't handle that. And maybe. They feel like their passions are being suppressed, which that's a different conversation where like, maybe they just need to find more avenues to like, express themselves and like, follow their passions. But assuming that it's like a healthy relationship, and somebody's intimidated, it's my it's actually mind blowing. Yeah, I completely agree. And we need more people like you. Spread the good word. Protect me at all costs, if you will. No, we will. You are protected at all costs. I'm curious, when you think about identity, has that been something you've had to like, navigate post NFL? Now, as a dad building a new career? Or was the identity transition easy for you? That's something a lot of athletes struggle with. Yeah, I mean, look, people hit me up all the time. And they're like, bro, your transition was so great, which I agree. I think I was like, super fortunate. But there was a period where I was for sure scrambling. Also, like, I think sometimes people forget that I didn't play or I was waiting to get signed for a year. So then I was like, halfway still playing halfway not playing. Don't know what I'm going to do. Can't pursue anything. I felt bummy. I felt like I didn't have like, and this goes back to like the intimidated by your wife success. At no point was I intimidated by her success. But I definitely wanted to have identity. And again, it's not even a success thing. I just wanted to have something that I felt like, when I woke up in the morning, I like had something. And for a while, I didn't feel like I had that for sure. Kind of got into running. I was just like, I'm just gonna start doing challenges. But I think the message for individuals who are transitioning is, like we said, while you're playing, like have some fun, do something creative. It could literally be like, I'm gonna start painting. Maybe that becomes what you do after your sport. I think a lot of people struggle more when they have nothing. I still had like, social media deals. And like, I was doing stuff. But I think people have to identify their passions. But I definitely had some dark, dark points with Allie, like just talking about it. It was tough. Talking about like what you wanted to do. Yeah. And just like feeling bummy. Like, there's also so many voices on social media. So like, imagine being like, you know, people are already critical at the end of my career. Like you're just a practice squad player, which is very much not true. But like that happening when I'm actually not getting signed. And I'm like, yeah, nobody's calling me was really tough. And I wanted to retire even earlier because I waited a whole year of waiting. And, and not getting calls. And I just wanted to be done with it. Like, I just wanted to silence the noise and just be like, done. Like, I don't want to identify with this anymore. Yeah, it's just tough. Like being in limbo is tough. Yeah, it's tough too. Because unfortunately, like you can either stop while you're ahead or wait until you kind of like, face out of the league. And it's like, it doesn't feel good to stop while you're ahead. Because you're like, well, what could have been and then it doesn't feel great to like leave when you're not like at your peak. Totally. No, super right. And I felt I mean, there's so much that goes into the thought process. But I was like, I'm gonna feel bummy then when I retire and people are like, well, you didn't get signed. So like, you're not really retiring. You're just like, not getting signed, which is absolutely true. By the way, I was like, I don't feel like dealing with these comments. Honestly, it's insane to even hear you say that because like, not even thought I've ever had. It's crazy what like our anxiety will tell us and also what like the trolls will say. My God, I'm like you play in the NFL. Yeah, I know. Real though, like when you see those comments, by the way, any influencer who's like, I don't care about comments. I'm like, you if you're a competitor in the influencer space, which I hate the word, but we'll use it for this. If you're a competitor in the influencer space, you absolutely care about comments. It's like part of the game, in my opinion. And so I feel like I was just really affected by it. And like, I knew I played seven years, I made tons of money playing in the that doesn't make like the experience easier. So yeah, I was happy that it was not poorly received. It was actually really good. How do you guys navigate like the negative comments or negative videos or just like, yeah, the online stuff that's toxic? Yeah, well, to be honest, we're lucky. We don't get crazy stuff. But I think when I played, it was really tough. And I'll tell you a story. I had a moment where I got stiff-armed by Justin Herbert and like just already a brutal situation as a player. Like to know that I have to watch film of that. That in and of itself is trash. And then like I get on the bus after the game, I already know like, wow, that was bad. And then like I'm looking and there's like viral, multiple million view videos of me just getting towards. And that's the first time that I was like, I'm actually getting off social media until like I feel like I'm ready to come back. We've dealt with that. But now it's pretty chill. I think the fear is just like, you never know. Like you could post something. Allie posted a video about, 75 hard for pregnant women. And she was like, I don't want women to think that I'm like setting a false expectation. So you're always kind of thinking about it. I think that's the name of the game with being a content creator. I think it can be really unhealthy. And I think I used to let that dictate a lot of how I'd show up on the internet for many years. And now I've been actually grateful that people are recognizing like, hey, hey, hey, not everything on the internet is like for you. Like if it doesn't relate to you, like scroll and, find some video that does. Have you had like experiences with super negative comments or like a specific video where you're like, ooh, that went in the wrong direction? Yeah. I had a video that I posted. It was like a hot takeoff from a RealPod episode. And it went like lots of negative comments, people disagreeing with me. But I was like, whatever. Like I was the first time I was like, the person asked me, tell me and remind me and convince me why I shouldn't take a GLP-1. So I spoke from the heart. Like I was talking to my best friend. Wait, what was your take? Not to get distracted. So if anyone wants to listen to this full episode, it's the body image Q&A I did recently. But- Can't wait. I've been- of it. I basically was just, this is a person who was asking a question similar to me where they're just like, I don't feel like I need to take this. I just feel the pressure that I don't look thin enough and remind me why I should stay sane. And so I basically was just like, you don't want to take this drug. Like this drug is going to convince you you're not hungry when your body really might be hungry. Like people who are, have lost the 15 pounds, their body would naturally never lose are in a state of malnutrition. I was just reminding them, we don't want this. And anyways, of course, people were like, I'm taking this for a medical reason. I'm like, this isn't who the video is for. That's not the question I was answering. That's such an interesting topic. There's a lot of people that are online taking GLP-1s, showcasing their weight loss journey and posting fitness pictures. If you're an influencer and you're not disclosing that, it can be challenging. I totally think transparency is the most important thing. That's also where I stand. And I think a lot of people get this wrong about me. Like if you're going to take a GLP-1, fine. Just say that you took a GLP-1. If you're going to get plastic surgery, fine. Just say you did plastic surgery. What hurts my heart is like little girls thinking that they can get this by using your contour stick or that they can get this by your juice cleanse. Yeah. If you're using your platform to influence people, like the truest form of influencer, I just think you have an obligation to protect your audience and like what you could subject them to, which is eating disorders, unhealthy body image issues, body dysmorphia. I mean, I think you understand what I'm saying. What do you think about the Serena Williams endorsing? Roe, I think is the name of it. You talked about this, didn't you? I've actually never talked about this because it is tea. I don't know everyone's story. And so I never feel like comfortable being like, these two people. Molly would definitely should get a divorce or this person gives me this vibe. Like I don't know them personally, but Alona Mar actually posted a video yesterday and she basically said like this famous athlete you always look to look up to is now telling you to take this drug. And that really stuck with me because that's, that is the case. That is the facts, right? It's like Serena Williams is someone I used to look at as like such a staple and icon for like what a female athlete's body like can look like and that it's okay to be muscular as a woman. So it's disappointing, you know? And I, I think I just wonder like, why, like, was there not, do you not have enough money? Do you not have enough other endorsements? Like why this? And even if it did work for you and you're happy, that's okay. But does it need to be something that you then publicly encourage other people to do without knowing all their stories and knowing the weight of your influence? That's tough. Well, it was like, you know, I'm not a, I'm not a female. So I'm going to talk about this. I'm going to talk about this. I'm going to just like understanding that I have, I have a daughter, so I can talk about it from that lens as a dad. I feel like the space of body image was very protected by athletes because there might be people in pop culture that are like having surgeries and yada, yada, yada, altering their body for personal reasons. And like, I think the consumer could look at that and go, well, they're in that space. That's fine. The athletic space was like, come as you are, like you are a high level athlete. Yeah. And we're proud of what our body's going to accomplish. And I think now she was like the first person to now, whoa, the space is like attacked. Wait, you're so right. Yeah. I've never thought about that. You're so right. Even now the conversation with like basketball players, there's a number like Zion Williamson, he lost like a lot of weight in the off season. Was he taking a GLP-1? And so like the narrative's changing. And I think that's what's scary. We're like, now it's like, as an athlete, it's your body image. It's your ability. It's your, just all this stuff. Yeah. I think as a female athlete, I definitely would look at the pop culture, mainstream media, like ideal body diet culture stuff. And it affected me because I used to say, which one am I? Do I want to try to fit this mold or do I want to embrace this mold that I'm in as an athlete? And you're right. It's like the total connection. It's infiltrated and it's seeped in because now it's like they took one of our most beloved, iconic. Literally, she's a poster child. Yeah. So. It's scary. So I think that's what it is. It's scary. I think it's safe to say, like, I think it's kind of unhealthy. I don't, not taking a GLP-1, just like that space. Like I'm watching a sports game and now there's advertisements from one of the best female athletes of all time. It's tough. I struggle with it a ton. Yeah. Well, cause after my career, I lost like 40 pounds. And like, if I eat a lot, like I still a hundred percent see myself as like who I was, you know, 40 pounds ago. But then it's like, wait, I'm not going to lose weight. I'm going to lose weight. Like, bro, you've ran four marathons. You had a seven-year NFL career, like incredible athlete. Like who cares what you look like? And again, that's why it's hard. Cause everything that we see is like, well, you should care about what you look like. And I think the goal is just to be healthy. Like I do fast. Like I did four fast last year and I am now realizing that like, I wouldn't do a fast again. Cause I think I'm using it in a really unhealthy way. And Allie's kind of opened my eyes up to that. That like, it's just really unhealthy. I don't know exactly what type of fast you were doing. And I'm not a doctor. I do think fast has been a word that people have glorified with just temporary starvation, you know? I mean, I was going three days, no food. Right. Which is, I mean, that's, I'm fasting. Yeah. It would be like, I would go like on a vacation binge. Like I just did one. And we can use real life examples. Like I was binging Christmas vacation, like drinking, drinking wine. No problem with that. Eating a lot. I gained, like a ton of weight. And I'm like, well, I'm just not going to eat for three days. Clear out my system. But it's like, no, you're kind of using that as like a unhealthy response to overheating. So like all those things being said, I just think we have to be really cautious with how we approach it. I do think there is a healthier eating lifestyle. Like some people are like, there's no bad food. Like I think objectively, there's a healthier way to eat. And I think that's what we should be focused on rather than wanting to lose five, 10 pounds. Right. How your body feels. What feels nutritious for you? What makes you feel good? I would say there are no bad foods. There are foods that are way less nutritious. You're a no bad food person. I'll tell you why. Because I think that if we say the cookies are bad and that I shouldn't eat cookies because they're bad, the version of me who never eats a cookie because they're bad is not a healthy Victoria. You're like, I need a chocolate chip cookie. That Victoria will end up bingeing. Because she's not allowed to eat cookies versus if I know, okay, if I'm about to go on a run, an apple versus a cookie, an apple is much more nutrient dense than a cookie. That's a fact, a hundred percent. But then the adding the moral value makes me feel like a bad person. If I chose the cookie. It's funny because, but yeah, bad and good are like moral words. Exactly. And food's not. Yeah. Language matters. Doesn't say you're a bad, you're not a bad person. The fact that like feeling guilty or shameful for eating something. It comes only because we tell ourselves it's a bad food that we're not allowed to eat, you know? And anyways, I would call me whenever as a friend, like I would love to talk about this with you. I'm like, Vic, I'm binging right now. I don't know how to stop. I used to have a binge eating disorder. I totally understand. Well, it's funny, Oprah, who's super big on the GLP-1 advertisement now, she's like, there's a binging gene. Honestly, Oprah, I believe you. Cause I, whatever that gene is, I have, like, I have to like actually tell myself like you've eaten enough. Like, but I just like, don't, I mean, I do get full, but like it takes a lot. And it's a struggle. It's a struggle. I have this dream body that I want. So I struggle with that a little bit. Yeah. But it's hard because similarly as an athlete, you might think of this dream body and it's like what you were able to have when you have these certain energy levels in this routine and you were training for hours a day and you had every fueling station and protein shake, you had everything laid out for you. Don't think you're crazy for having these thoughts. It makes total sense, but it's just about taking the energy. And the deep breath. And I always remind myself, if this is the body I have where I have peace with food and I'm not hyper fixated on it and I get to enjoy my life and be happy, this is the body I want. If 10 or 15 pounds less is what my brain thinks would look better. I know that version of myself and she's not a happy girl. I don't want to be that girl. So, you know? Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. I think everything you're saying is spot on too. Like your body has an equilibrium, right? And at that equilibrium, you can accomplish different things athletically, health-wise. And we're just always fighting that because sometimes equilibrium may not be what you want to look like. And I think about like when I was running marathons and like, I still run all the time. I would like try to lose weight, but then I couldn't fuel for a run and my runs would be worse. And it's just such an interesting dynamic where like my body actually looking worse based on how I see it is way more productive. Yeah. But that's my equilibrium. Right. So I don't know. Yeah. Thank you for being open about this because I think so many men and male athletes, especially, I remember having a friend who's like forcing himself to eat like three extra burritos a day because he has to gain and like that would make anyone mental, you know? Yeah. That sounds like my dream date, honestly. My dream date. I'm like, honestly, that sounds incredible. But yeah, no, guys struggle with it. Thank you so much for taking the time and just for being such a good friend and supporter for me and Max. We're so grateful to have you guys in this crazy world. So thank you, Isaac. We're going to be rooting for you. We're going to be rooting for you, watching everything you do next and excited for your growing family. Thank you. Thanks for having me. of course thank you so much for listening to this episode of real pod if this hit home or helped you in some way send it to a friend a teammate roomie share the love share the realness new episodes of real pod come out every single wednesday so make sure you are subscribed to this podcast so you never miss an episode to leave a rating or review of the show head to itunes and let me know what you think i love hearing from you not to mention you can stay connected with real pod throughout the week seeing behind the scenes info and sneak previews of upcoming guests by following the at real pod account on instagram all information about today's show and guests will be linked in the description of this episode thanks again for listening i love you guys so so much let's go dominate the day and as always keep it real please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements you may not be able to watch the entire episode of real pod if you haven't watched the entire episode of real pod you may not be able to watch the entire episode of real pod if you haven't watched the entire episode of real pod if you haven't watched the entire episode of real pod for products and services individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode hi i'm cory kareem hosting creator of the intersect a new show that breaks down the rise and roll of ai in our lives in each episode i talk to bold thinkers builders and leaders about how this technology is shaping our everyday experiences from work and well-being to communication and decision making and after 25 years as a journalist and media executive i've been working on a new show called real pod i'm here to help you make sense of this moment if you're curious about what ai is what it means for you or how to start using it tune in every thursday wherever you get your podcasts