Is Theater a Hotbed For Immorality?

[Music] Welcome to Ask Me A Question. I'm Cedric. And I'm Rande. And this week we have questions about theatre and we have questions about storytelling in the church certainly and well beyond because we are both well beyond that experience. However, that's where our roots are. Yeah, we're theatre kids. Theatre in the church. Yeah, and the church converted me. The church converted you to being a theatre kid? To theatre, yeah. Wow. Do you remember the first play that you were in? I don't know if it was the first play I remember early things I did in church. I mean, probably it was some kind of nativity thing. But I remember one and maybe it was written by a church member. I don't know, but I always did theatre. And then our little girls choir that I was in, we also did a play every year, probably even several. Like I was always, always as long as it was an option in the theatre. Yeah, me too. I have pictures of me as a dove in some Christmas play. And you know, it's like there's a, the picture has like some adult wrangling a bunch of kids and I'm in like a pillowcase that's supposed to be my wings. It's very silly. I don't even remember it, but there are photos of me as a dove. Yeah, I think back to some of this stuff. And I'm like, do I just remember the pictures or do I actually remember those experiences? I do think I remember some of those experiences and just loving it. I loved being on stage of any kind. I was in choir. I was in, I guess any play I could ever be in, but I always wanted to be on stage. But theatre, when that came across my radar, was the thing. It was the thing. I wanted to be part of any part of it. I would have done anything they asked me to do for any kind of play. Yeah, absolutely. Back when I still had a child brain, I remember having the entire script memorized. And like from our, probably 30-minute drive from where we lived to church because we lived out of town, I would recite the whole script to my mom and everybody's parts. I certainly cannot do that now. Oh my goodness. The first real play that I got into, and we'll talk about this a little later on, but I was a freshman in high school and I got a role. That was a main role in a musical at a Christian theatre and I did the same thing on a road trip with my family. I sang and did the entire script over and over. I mean, it was four days and my poor family was tired of me. They probably would have thrown me out the window. I know my mom certainly acted impressed. My mom was like, wow, that's really great. Look at your memory. And probably she was like, oh my god, this kid. Yeah, exactly. Good child, Briand. What was it that grabbed you? Because I don't even remember seeing a play and deciding that's what I wanted to do. I just remember being in the plays. Did you see something that grabbed you? No, well, not when I was really little. When I was really little, it was just like, I liked any form of pageantry because I wanted to dress up and I wanted to be other characters and other people, other animals. There was a little bit of playmaking going on, maybe in my church and my school like here and there. I do remember my brother and sister were in some kind of school play. My sister played a seed in the spring play and there were all these little seeds and they sprouted and became flowers. And we have it on video. Was it a metaphor of like the seeds that you plant and people? Oh my gosh. Bring them to Jesus. No, absolutely. This was just cute little like little seeds wake up. It's time to grow. No, I don't I don't think I mean not everything was an object lesson. Although most things were. Most things were an object lesson. Yeah, almost everything. But I remember this being very sweet. I remember my brother being in plays. Maybe, maybe when he was in like junior high and you know, I was six years younger. So I was just a kid when I got to see him and stuff. I think the first real time that theater came online for me. I mean that was one of them. But when I was in elementary school, the high schoolers would do, there was like a drama troupe in Mesa Grande Academy. Shout out to Mesa Grande. There was like a high school theater troupe of like you know, six kids that would do plays. And that blew me out of the water. I was just an elementary school and they would come to our assemblies and perform for us during school. And it was transformative. Yes. Yeah, you too. I had that experience too. Yeah. I was an Adventist grade school and getting ready to go to high school in the next couple of years. And I saw this play and I remember it and there were two, you know, two guys that to me were like these older cooler. Wow. Oh right. You know, they were probably like 50. Oh yeah, if you look at the earbook now, you'd be like, they are children. Yeah. But they, I think one of them played the devil to the other one play God. I don't remember. But I was just trans-fixed. So powerful to me. And I had to do this. And right, like I had done the church plays and stuff growing up, but to be in the high school drama team was everybody. Oh, it was all I ever wanted. And I remember too that my brother had a friend in high school. And again, six years apart. So like she was an adult to me. And we would go see her school play. She was at a different school. She had to lumbar into Academy. And she was in some play that they had written themselves like the choir teacher had written it maybe. And it was a musical. And I don't remember any of the plot of this. It was just like this chaotic, you know, crazy, every single kid in the school got to be in that play. But it was so fun. I remember the songs. I remembered the lyrics. I still remember the costumes. And she was my idol. I idolized her so much because she was the first one in the Adventist school system to like actually break out and start to do theater for real outside the school in the church. So I saw her in her like little school play. But then she auditioned and got into the Christian theater in my hometown. And she got a leading role. She played Esmeralda in the hunchback of Notre Dame, the Christian musical. And it was. Oh, yeah, that's a real thing. Yeah, I mean, no, oh boy. I'll tell you some of those other ones. But she was like, you know, I again, like that's another play that I can tell you like exactly what the costumes were. And exactly every lyric to some of those songs because my mind was completely blown by her performance in this show. So, you know, I'm still a kid at that point and imagine like suddenly that experience of realizing there's so much more out there. It was huge. But you know, the high school performance, there was one skip that they did and they did it in school and in church. And I must have seen it a few times because I had the entire thing memorized. And at one point when I was in high school, I wanted to produce that same skip because I liked it so much. And I wrote it from memory because as a kid, I was just so obsessed with it. I knew every word. And just thinking about how funny it is, one, I'm thinking about, wow, have I ever been in a play that hit some young person that way where they got to see like, oh, that's the thing I want to do. And then two, I'm thinking about all of these years later, I am no less excited about theater and storytelling in this avenue. I mean, I've always really connected with storytelling. And obviously we just, we do as humans. That's part of what makes this human, I think, is that we tell each other stories. And I remember even in sermons, that was my favorite part, and I even told the pastor once. I think there was like a note or something that you could like write for a feedback for the pastor. I don't know, I hope I'm not making this up. But I think I was like, I like it best when you tell stories. And I've always really connected to, even like in Christian pop music when I was younger, the ones that told the story of who knows what, the crucifixion. It's all gory, but I still just loved it. Like I'm transported. I'm taking on this journey. Totally. So storytelling generally, but theater specifically, like no less excited now than I was then. Yeah, we have that in common. I mean, I work in professional theater now. So obviously, like it all paid off. But something I love about theater is that it is as old as humans. There are so many examples of ancient storytelling from all of these civilizations around the world, like civilizations that did not ever meet or encounter each other. They didn't learn from one another. They all found their own ways to tell stories. Every single one, which makes me think that this is just so human. So just at our core storytelling is one of the most human things we do. And I think that's the thing that makes me feel like I'm part of this, this long lineage of storytellers and performers throughout history. I love it. I love it too. And looking at it in this context makes it even wilder that we grew up with a church prophet who was like that. So totally literally literally, she says the very hotbed of immorality. Yes, Ellen White hated the theater. She actually genuinely hated it. But when she was young, movies didn't exist. It was only live performance in theater. So when she was. wrote about this, she was writing specifically about theater. Later on, many Adventists took those words and applied them to movies as well. But initially, she was writing about theater, which in her era was kind of muddy. It was a little bit less, and a little bit of Vodville. - I know, as I was reading some of this stuff that she wrote, I was like, oh, she's talking about exactly what I love. - Yeah, I love the hot, that's the morality. That's awesome. - I know. - And she's like, among the most dangerous resorts for pleasure is the theater. - Oh, Ellen. - Instead of being a school of morality and virtue, as is so often claimed, it is the very hotbed of immorality. And she goes on, oh, yeah. - Loot, songs, loot, loot gestures, intoxicating drink, all these indulgences. - That sounds marvelous. And then she's like, the only safe course is to shun the theater, the circus, and every other questionable place of amusement. - I know why I love amusement. - So I'm like, wow, she is, I know she's talking about my world here. - Yeah, this is like all the things I love the most. - To be living in the very hotbed of immorality. - I know, I mean, I'm not even sorry about it. - No, delighted, really. - The circus sounds marvelous too. - Oh, I've always wanted. - Yeah, same. Look, I don't think I have any skills that anybody would want me in the circus, but I would happily be one of the animal trainers because me, animals, cats. But isn't this a crazy thing when you're a little kid and you're growing up with those words being preached from the pulpit and you're sitting here with your little mind being blown in two different ways where you're like, I really love seeing things on stage, but the theater is bad. So you don't really have access to any kind of storytelling that isn't religious, Christian storytelling. That was all we had. - Yes, and it's also interesting how things evolve because my memory is that I didn't connect it to the things that I was seeing on stage in church. I connected it to going to movies 'cause that's what was our reality. And I was like, oh, my guardian angel's not gonna go in with me if I go in there. And I pretty sure the first time I went to the movie theater, I was like a pre-teen or something. I was like, okay, am I okay? Are they still here? - You know, like, boop, boop. - You know, am I, I'm a loser here. - Yeah, so that's where I connected it because I think at this point in our history, what's on stage is so benign, even in the most boundary-pushing versions of it. It's not necessarily like what we're able to put on TV now. But Ellen White even spoke to that. She was like part of the reason people shouldn't be going to theater is like, then you want more and it's so stimulating and then you want more and you're never gonna be satisfied again. - She's right. - Right, it's like this moral panic that comes up every time there's a new kind of technology and it's like we can't use this because, and right, like we do need to be aware of how our brains and our systems interact with these things. I am so in agreement with that. And it was this absolute like, you know, you have a little, you can't stop. - Well, I mean, she was also-- - Which is true. - You know, curiously and addict. - No, I don't know. - The way that she spoke about it, the way that she spoke about everything really suggests. - Yeah, usually, - No, that possibility. - That's not possible to do. - That's because they have their own problems with it. But I digress, I've told this story on the podcast before, but my mom, when she was in high school, went to go see Romeo and Juliet in the movie theater and they got caught and they had to write an essay about how their guardian angel stays in the lobby. Like this belief was real. And it was taken seriously by our teachers and pastors and parents. It was not just an arbitrary thing that like somebody wrote once. We followed Ellen White and this teaching pretty much to the letter. - Yes, oh, absolutely. There was actual fear impacting actual choices. But then I remember then more nuanced talks and sermons and conversations that would come about, well, okay, culturally, what did she mean by this? And like, did she mean movies? No movies didn't exist and right, trying to, but then okay, if she talked about the stage theaters, that actually what's bad. So it was, I don't know, these conversations were really productive. - Well, you said what I think I learned, which is like the overarching reasons that she said all of these things. - Yes. - It was to protect our minds and our hearts from immorality and from secular culture sneaking in. Because like we've talked about so much and like it's still worth unpacking is like, this was such a delicate belief system that any kind of outside influence could shatter everything. And for us, it did. And so like the victims of secular shattering. But it is. That's why they didn't want us to go into the theater because they knew we would be corrupted and ruined forever. - Oh, Ellen, you were right. - She was right. - You were right. (upbeat music) - I think something interesting to observe now that we have come so far from the church is the way that people took it seriously and continue to take it seriously. Showed up in interesting ways. And what I mean is that the Adventist system doesn't have any real theater programs inside of the church or school system. So most Adventist schools don't have any theater programs. It's usually like the choir program will put on a musical or maybe the English department will do a funny thing or maybe they have a drama club maybe, but that is within the last 50 years. But Adventist colleges, these like actual reputable institutions that are accredited don't have anything like a theater major or I think there's one school that has a theater minor. - There used to be more but they've been dropping off. - But they've never had a major. You could never get a degree in theater at an Adventist college. So when I was graduating high school and hoping to get into theater, I had to look elsewhere. So I think that's an interesting thing too is that like they took this belief so seriously that actually I left the Adventist education system because I was in pursuit of a degree that didn't exist. - Right, which in fairness you would have found your way out eventually anyways. And I wonder though if they took more seriously, oh there are people that love this and there is a world in which we could keep them within our system, it is actually kind of surprising. - The point that I'm trying to get at is that like everybody took this so seriously that they didn't put in any foundation for this at all. So when we went to go do theater as young people as kids, there wasn't any sort of structure that we could fit into. If there was, it was just developing, just starting to come around in the early odys. - Yeah, right, there was absolutely no expectation that any of us would have a job in theater. - Mm-hmm, no, no. - That was not an option. That was not one of the carved out paths. - No, we'd never even heard of anybody who had jobs in the theater. So the little drama troupe that the seniors did at my school was, I mean, all I had. And then, you know, my very first play, we've talked about before. - Yeah. - My first real play, I was in a play that we wrote in school about Ellen White. - Yes. - And yes, you may recall from previous episodes, and if you haven't listened to those episodes, go back and listen to them, they're wonderful. My very first prop that I ever made, which started my illustrious career as a prop maker, was the rock that got thrown at Ellen White's head and caused her to start having visions. Yes. - That was meant to be. - It was meant to be. I don't know if you'll allow this, but can we also brag about the other first prop situation that happened recently? - Oh, I mean, oh my goodness, how do we even talk about that? - I mean, 'cause I'm making you do it. - Yo, well. - You always mention it when we were born. - Yes, we did one. My current, I, oh goodness, I don't know how to talk about this. - You cannot include this, I'm very embarrassed. - Yes. - I run a professional prop shop for a regional theater, and recently, my shop was asked to make some custom jewelry pieces for a Broadway production. So this month, I'll be making my props, Broadway debut, which is pretty exciting. And it's little, it's small. - Well, it all started with Ellen. - It all started with a rock. - You go from a rock to Broadway. - Little to Ellen, no. - I know, it's kind of crazy to think about the very, very humble theater programs that I was a part of as a kid, to like getting to be part of one of the most joyful, queer productions that's coming to Broadway this season. And like a small part, but still part of it. It's been a wild journey from point A to point B. - Yeah, it is not a small thing. It's a really big deal. - Well, thank you. It is a really big deal. It's very cool. - It's also occurring to me how funny it is that there was a play that existed, and I'm sure there have been many more about Ellen White. When I really, really wonder what she would have thought of that, I read this whole bit about how there was a play put on at her church, and she wrote a letter to the church, but her little granddaughter, Ella White, is in the play. - Yeah, Ella White. - Ella White. - Ella White, Ellie White, Ella White. And something like that. And Ellen was like, okay, so the kids were good, but like, do we really have to be doing this? I couldn't understand a word of what they were saying. Couldn't they just have sung "Rock of Ages" or something? - Oh my goodness, she's so rouchy. - So, I'm really rouchy. - She's so rouchy. So grouchy. She's like trying to be nice about the kids. - No, I hear you're not writing to the church. - When you're children are singing because I can't understand them. And it's like you're all off key. I think I'm Ellen White. I understand her. - Well, maybe, you know, that's a connection to Saber. - Yeah, I mean, everything for her, all the things she wrote was in context of the time that she lived in. So, you know, I can take that with a grain of salt, but the way that people, when we were young, talked about the theater, was distinct and it has stuck with me. In a way that I think I'm still unpacking, there were some things that I think really deterred me from being artistic, that I've had to really let go of because it was so damaging. But one of the main things was because we, as 70 Adventists, as young conservative Christians, we didn't know anybody who had worked in theater or done theater professionally, or even done theater, especially well, or we didn't even know anybody who was even prolific, let alone monetizing that. Like, we didn't know people who were doing a lot of it. So, there was no path to this. So, every time that I was interested in theater and spoke up about it or tried to get my friends together to do a play or join the drama team or got into a Christian theater thing, anytime I took it seriously, somebody was there to say, but this is just for fun. Just remember that this is just for fun. And that lasted all the way through college where there was some adult person telling me, but this is just for fun, right? You're gonna get a real job and a real degree and you're gonna, I mean, we don't need to take that too seriously. Well, why don't you just be a teacher and then you can do some theater education, but no one, no one ever said, "This could be a viable thing for you." I had to fight for that and I did. And I found my way into a career, but not without a lot of fighting back at those voices. - Do you feel like that was an Adventist thing, specifically, or a broader cultural thing? 'Cause a lot of kids hear that, I feel like, like, oh, you a career in the arts isn't necessarily taken seriously or do you feel like it was both? - I think a lot of kids do hear that it's not very viable as a career. And I think that we, especially in American culture, do not treat the arts as a viable career. Ironically, we like to consume massive amounts of art, but we do not think of it as a viable career path, which I think is a very big dissonance. - I think that's so true, unless you're going to be famous. - Oh, yeah, of course. - Because I would get encouraged, but the questions would always be, are you gonna go on American Idol? - Yeah. - You're gonna do that. You know, the only context that people have for things is if you're not gonna be famous, why would you even do this? - Why bother? - Yeah, and they don't think of the hundreds and thousands of other jobs in film, television, concerts, music, even Christian versions of all those things that are viable career paths. There's people who make the clothes and people who do the lights and sound and people who build the stages and build the sets and the props. Like, do the hair and the wigs and the makeup that all of that has to be done for every kind of production. But we were so sheltered from that. I do think that this was a specifically Adventist thing. I think, yes, acknowledging that a lot of young Christian people had that experience and a lot of young people, especially Americans. But for us, there was that added level of sin that made it really bizarrely not viable. It was just so not part of our sphere, right? Because it was sinful. And I also would like to say that I don't think my parents saw it that way, but I think that they had repercussions from generations and generations echoing down from Ellen White's generation that said, this is bad, this is evil, this is unsustainable. We don't do this. So I think in their ear, we're all these voices of the ghosts of Adventist past who said, this isn't something that your kid can do. Don't, you know, they're not going to do this. It does feel distinct and uniquely Adventist, I think. - And we had all of our ways of being able to experience that in the spary, sanitized and protected way, like the theater that we did growing up, wasn't necessarily expansive storytelling. - Yeah. - Like when I saw people playing God in the devil, that wasn't necessarily like, wow, my worldview has been opened up. It was, you know, it was, ooh, I want to tell stories that way, which is true. I had a great time. But it certainly didn't expand my mind. It was nothing like new content wise or it didn't like open my heart in any way other than the, like the craft itself. I just, I wanted to understand how to do that. But the stories we were telling were not opening anybody up. We were not doing anything new. - Yeah, that word expansive is an interesting one. Because storytelling to serve a purpose is one thing. And storytelling to explore concepts is a different thing. And I think the way that we danced around the generations and generations of people calling theater evil was that we started doing storytelling to prove a point. They were object lessons or they were useful in getting the kids on the right track, right? But they weren't open-ended. The theater that we grew up with was not open-ended. It finished with a message in a lesson, no matter what. - Right, I'm thinking about like not even keeping kids on the right track, but like keeping them off the wrong track. We've all seen a skit with the bad kids who were smoking and drinking and like something awful happens to them. And that was the lesson. - Oh my gosh, I have a memory of somebody doing a skit at some Bible conference. I don't know why this stuck with me all these years, but every time I have a beer, I think of the skit. (laughing) It was some good boy who had an angel on one side and a devil on one side and every time something would happen to him, the angel would say something and the devil would say something. And so like at some point, like one of his friends offered him a beer and the angel said like, "No, don't do it. It's bad for you." And so he said to his friend, "No, thank you." I don't like the taste, but then the devil would say, "But after the first one, you don't taste it anymore." (laughing) - Oh, wow, he's a crafty one, isn't he? - And you know what, that's actually true is after the first beer, beer isn't so bad. (laughing) I think about it all the time. - After the first one, it won't taste so bad. - That's so funny. - It's really silly. I think Christian skits are so hokey now, but you're right that like it was everything when we were you. - Oh, it was everything. I absolutely loved it. It was absolutely perfect or where we were at, life saving, I would say. That is what got me through high school. Was the theater that we got to do? - Speaking of life saving theater, we met and got close through the theater. - Yes. - That's how we discovered our little community. So that year our school got a new Bible teacher who was also a pastor and taught ASL and ran the drama group because that's how Adventist schools work. These teachers do everything. But he had come from another school where he developed a drama group called ACT, Adventist Christian Theater. And he had written a bunch of material skits, scripts, plays. And so it was this established group that he brought with him to our school. So on that first day of school where you get to sign up for the extra curricular stuff, you could sign up to audition for the drama group. That was your senior year, my junior year. And you auditioned? Did you remember auditioning for that? - So I auditioned for the drama group that existed my freshman year. So I had done it all four years, but it was a different group, a different teacher and that we were both involved in. And it was really special, like different than anything that had come before for us. - And this was unique because I had done two years of high school and barely gotten to do any sort of theater inside the Adventist system. I had done a bunch of Christian theater in my hometown at the little Christian theater that I was part of, but in high school, I had done nothing. And so I had this kind of feeling of like, I'm better than everybody else because I've done all this outside theater. But also when we got there to audition for this new theater program that was just starting up, it was really, really cool because it was like branded. There were all these like existing plays and scripts that we were being presented with that were like really well written and well thought out. There was scenery already built that we got to use and light lights and it was the first well-rounded theater with production value that I got to be a part of inside the Adventist system. - Yeah, I had no idea what I was getting into. And I was really grumpy at first actually because, you know, yeah, because our high school had a drama group that was, that I had known about and desperately wanted to be a part of. And I was like, I can't believe this guy's coming in and changing it. I'm only defined out like this is a pro. He knows what he's doing. And it was, it was life changing. It was like the most real, I don't know, I should put that in quotes. But like, yeah, really the most real theater experience either of us had had. - Yeah, absolutely. - Especially in school. - Very, very much that. And also it brought a group of people together that maybe never would have interacted in any sort of closer intimate way. I don't think I would have talked to some of those folks not because they were bad, but I just like, we didn't run in the same circles. But, It did this thing that brought this little tiny community together. And my goodness, we were close. We went on tour together. We did similar sort of like sketches and skits, but they were, well, written. They weren't so hokey. It was really exciting. Yeah. Oh, it was so exciting. It felt like we were a part of something special. Yeah. And I think we were. And there was also sort of a legacy with this group too, because it had been done at other schools and different places across the country. So I remember thinking like, oh, man, the kids from the drama team at that school, like, oh, we're the next generation of kids doing this stuff. It felt like a cool legacy. It was very cool. Yeah. It's some of my best memories. Some of my darkest times were during that period. And I agree with you that that is the thing that got me through because without that community and without that particular teacher and those particular mentors and people, I don't know what I would have done. Well, and we were also stretched, right? Like we weren't just in a club and residing lines. Like we were taught theater games and practices and like techniques. And it was like, wow, like this is incredible. We also learned technical theater. We learned how to focus lights. We learned what all the lights were called and how to roll cables and what the sound equipment was called. Like I still only know anything I know about lights because of this theater trip. I like you a little bit from tour, but not really at all. It was it was this. I think a lot of teenagers have like really cool experiences. Like I got to be in this play and it was great. And we really, we got close to really good community. Is sure. And we probably had really similar experiences to a lot of the other kids who are having those feelings. What was unique about ours was coming from this history of a denomination that told us that theater was sinful and bad. And we were able to build something of quality, something that mattered. And then we were able to do it in this way that like opened up our minds to the possible instead of just saying like, okay, this is another credit. This is another thing or this is a fun little after school thing. Like this was transformative in a way that opened up the world to me. I really think so. Well, I felt myself tearing up. Yeah, no, it made such an impact that has reverberated for the rest of my life. And right, I already loved theater. I already knew this, but being given that experience of like legit theater in a context that I don't think many young, Adventist kids get. It was incredible. It was incredible. It was. And to tour. I mean, you know, it's also like where we became boyfriend and girlfriend. So the tour bus was especially fun for us. But, but tour was amazing. I said like several other couples that were smashed into that bus. I got away with way too much. We had a lot of pictures. But touring with this group was its own kind of stretch in this way that I feel like I was changed forever because it wasn't just like, oh, we went to Salt Lake City and we did some plays at some church, which is, I mean, on paper, what happened. But it was also the way that I understood you didn't have to just like wear matching t-shirts and go in front of a elementary school assembly. You could go and actually do beautiful things on beautiful stages. And maybe it even make a real difference. What do you mean when you say that now? Oh, as a kid, you know, you feel like you have no impact, right? And so I think as a young, as a teenager, as a young person, I felt like I had no real impact. You're trying to. You want to make a difference. And you also sort of want to like hold yourself up in this world. And I had a lot of attempts at that. I was a peer counselor. I was an essay officer. I was a class officer. You know, there were a lot of versions of me trying to make a difference. And I worked for the pastor and I preached sermons and I sang special music. But I think this was the first time for me that that impact felt real, but also that impact felt personal. Like I was sharing myself with the community. Yeah, it's going to say, do you feel like it was just because it was so deeply aligned with who you are and what you love that it just felt so? Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, I don't know the impact any of those other things had, but I know the impact from touring and doing those productions, the impact it had on me. And it felt like there was possibility. It's so interesting thinking about Christian theater because I'm sure that our intent was to witness for the Lord and whatnot. It was still Christian theater. But when I think of making an impact, I'm like, maybe we showed some kid that you can do this and you can do a good job at it. Like that's the sort of thing that I think about. I think about this constantly now. And I never put words to it back then. But you can only have the impact that you're having in this moment. And then, you know, we all die. We all go away. And I think that's why people put their names on buildings and why they want to name things after themselves because they want to have this big impact. They want to have this big legacy for me. The thing that I think about a lot is this idea of just passing the parcel. I got that from a movie actually from a Broadway play that got turned into a movie. But there's this line in this in this movie that where you just says, that's all you can do. You pass the parcel, you take it, you hold it, you feel it, and then you pass it on. And I think that was maybe the first time I think I understood sort of the concept of I'm having this thing that matters to me. I'm holding it. I'm feeling it. And maybe I'm passing it on. I get the sense that Ellen White was uncomfortable with anything that evoked such deep feeling that wasn't Jesus. Because she speaks out like, like stimulating the base passions or whatever. Like she speaks out against feeling intensely. But we felt things intensely doing this, which you have to do to do theater. You channel really intense feeling through yourself. And I wonder if there was anything just uncomfortable about that for her. I guess I wonder why it felt so transformative. Looking back, it was, it was a high school theater program. Right. Like it was maybe as Hokey as anything else, but at the time, it was sophisticated and beautiful and interesting. But I wonder who would see that and feel like that had roots in something evil. And I think the people who might feel that way, who, and there are people still to this day, who feel that way, even though we've come so far from Ellen White's time, there are people who still feel like theater and performance is either useless or evil or just bad or just a waste of time. I suspect the people who feel that way are really afraid of feeling intensely and also really afraid of change. Because it's very hard to do any kind of storytelling without changing your mind about something. There's almost no story that doesn't change your mind in some way. And I think the easiest thing to do in some ways is just follow the rules. Well, Ellen White says this. So this is what it is. Yeah. You know, the same theater troupe, we did a lot of sketches and we traveled and we toured and we did stuff at our home church a little bit. They wouldn't let us do it in church very much, but we did it a lot at like, bestbers and whatever. But then we did a play, which we've talked about before that was just the biggest thing we'd ever done. I think both of us had been in the school musicals and like the senior plays. But this play was like the biggest, most monumental thing. And you had to recite the whole Edgar Allan Poe, the Raven on stage while people are shouting at you. And I think you died. It was crazy. And my own hand. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And what I remember is there was actually a lot that was quite interesting. Like it was all about the masks that you wear. Do you remember that? Like all of the masks that we put on that aren't. I don't know if it was like, aren't who you truly are or aren't who God made you to be or whatever. Or how you're performative, you're performative in front of all these people who expect something. Yeah. And then slowly the masks come off or I'm not going to remember it exactly, but I remember that. I loved that. I loved that. It was a big deal. And and then it was over. And we had it for one year. And then the program got dissolved. And the next year was my senior year. You graduated. But I think there was something really profound about having the experience of that huge play that we did at the end of the year. Where like this was the first time for most of the people in that church and school where suicide was ever addressed, actually addressed. And where self harm and self examination was addressed. So we had this huge moment that was like meaningful and really not nothing. And it was also everything to us. The next year, I think I had all of this like vibrating energy from that that I just like, I needed. to put somewhere. And there was nowhere to put it because we didn't have this theater program. We didn't have any theater program at that point. And I was in the school musical, but that was like nothing. Yeah, we did the music man and who cares? I wanted to be doing, you know, thoughtful, interesting good stuff. So a few of us that were still in school put a little theater trip together. And that was when we did the line "The Witch and the Wardrobe" and you came and you were on "White Witch." And I was the witch. Yay! But it was because we had to because after having that experience, you cannot go back. You have to have some sort of way of expressing yourself. Absolutely. And that moment in time to be able to do that for me, even though I was out of high school and I wasn't really a part of it, it was really special that you, and I feel this to this day, when I get a part that I get to express a part of me that I've never gotten to before, or like a way of existing that I don't exist like that at all. I feel like it flushes me out more as a human. Like I feel myself differently. Like just the inside of my being becomes different with every character that I get to play. Most, not all I guess. But most, and that was such a big moment coming out of high school and then getting to play a witch. And the fact that you asked me, like you saw that I could do that, that was really special. Hmm. And I think because you had seen probably the darkest sides of me. So you were probably the only person that would have trusted me with that role. Because nobody saw me that way. Well, and you had seen the darkest sides of me at that point. And I don't think you would have been quite so vulnerable with me if we hadn't built all that trust over the years. It was a fantasy play, right? So it's not necessarily a deep dark, meaningful, emotional, Tennessee Williams kind of a moment. But building that together was that intense and that meaningful and thoughtful. Yeah. And I'm thinking about, again, that idea of theater that's very sanitized and limited, which certainly in a way, that is what we grew up in, versus theater that's very expansive. And I don't even mean to say that like all theater needs to be deep and meaningful. But like I do a lot of silly things just for fun. And I love it. Absolutely. I think theater gets to be all kinds of things, just for pure joy and delight and entertainment. However, I'm very glad to live in this outside of the church, Corona World, where all possibilities are available to me to express and to entertain and to present. Whereas that's certainly not what we grew up. And certainly like we were children, it would have been limited in some ways anyways. But in a very specific way, for where we were. [MUSIC PLAYING] What were some of the roles that you did after high school? What did you start to get into? Because I did a lot of stuff outside the Christian realm after I got back from tour. And I started actually like getting into plays. I did a lot of really interesting secular stuff. And I think you did too. In fact, I remember seeing some of them. Yeah, I mean, it took a while. In fact, you were the one that really put musicals on my register. Like, our high school was doing musicals, but they did not register to me as anything. I was like, what is this? No, they were doing very silly shows. Again, a musical. Which I realized a lot of people love. But it was like, oh, it's just greater than my soul. I couldn't, I wanted no part of it. It was terrible. But you introduced me to Wicked and to Rent and to these things that were very big at that time. And that changed my life. And I was like, oh, if only I could do that, like if only I had had the training to do musical theater. Like that is 100% what I would have gone into. But instead, I briefly majored as a vocal performance major because that's what I could do. Oh my gosh. Do you know the stars I had in my eyes when you went to do that program? I went to Philadelphia. And you were studying to be a vocal performance major. You were meeting Broadway stars who were coming to do like workshops at your school. You were doing like crazy cool things that, oh my god, I would have died to get to do some of the stuff you did. So it wasn't nothing. No, it wasn't nothing. It was very special. But I didn't do any theater for probably, gosh, I want to say like 10 years after high school. I don't think that's wrong. Maybe a little less, maybe like eight years. And I was cast in God's Bell. Interestingly. Which is like outside the box, but still very like, that is about Jesus and His disciples. Yeah. But we had a female Jesus and she was incredible. Right. And it was my first, like it was such a confidence builder. Like, wow, I can actually do this. Yeah. There's something about I think being seen by somebody who puts you in a role that's like, wow, you see that in me? I can't even believe that. And also somebody who's not from my church or somebody from my school. Yeah. But you don't know her. And you see something inside me. And you put me in this play. Like, wow. Yeah, it is like a big deal almost every time. And certainly I've had the odd terrible theater experience. I think we all have. I never want to do Jane Austen again. That is beside the point. No, just lots. I feel lots of wonderful experiences. I feel very lucky. And sometimes I pull back and I laugh at it. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like we're just a bunch of grownups out here like booping around and telling our stories. But like, I'm having the time of my life. I know. And also like we have to say, we are just a bunch of adults booping around. But so were the ancient Greeks who were putting on plays. And so was Shakespeare who was putting on plays at the globe. Like, this has been a tradition, a human tradition throughout history. And I'm so glad to join this lineage of absolute fools who gets to put on place. Oh, 100%. You know, like Shakespeare was doing stuff for people. Swapping genders in the forest and fooling each other and putting drugs up each other's nose to try to get them to fall in love with each other. Like that is some foolishness. But it's also some of the greatest literature that we have. And why not be part of that lineage? Yeah. And I think theater in particular is so special to me. And so special now, I think, because so much can be created on a screen. And we don't always know what's real and what's not. When you see something live in front of you, first of all, this is the only time you're ever going to see a play out that way. It's never exactly the same from night to night. So you are watching something live that has never happened before and is never going to happen again. And it's in real time. Yes. Yeah. These real people presenting something to you in the flesh. Like it's just, it's an incredible world to me. I started to realize that when I started doing theater after I got back from tour and I was entering the secular world. And like I think, you know, we were doing stuff around the same time. I started doing Shakespeare at this big, huge venue by my house. I think it seats like something like 3,000 people that might be overblown, but I think it does. It's a huge venue. It's an outdoor venue. And I grew up going to this venue on Sabbath afternoons after church. We would just walk through the park and go walk on the stage because it was always there. You could, it was open to the public. And when I was a little tiny kid, I dreamed. I dreamed of doing a play on that stage or anything on that stage. I just wanted to be on that stage. So when I auditioned and I got in, I got into a Shakespeare festival there. And I remember thinking, I've done things in spaces with people and had an understanding with the audience. Like, you know, I'm performing your listening. There's the social transaction. There's an interaction that we're having. But this was the first time that I looked at it a sea of people who are only there because they want to be there. You don't go see Shakespeare unless you want to see Shakespeare. Nobody's just having a leisurely hangout watching Hamlet. Like, you are there intentionally. And I remember looking out at the audience of the sea of people and thinking, this is bigger than just a social transaction. This is all of us living in the words, soaking up these words. And it's my job to interpret the words. And it's their job to soak it up with me. And I just remember feeling it didn't feel transactional. It felt familial. No, it's like communal. Yes. There's this communal experience between an audience and the people on stage. It's different than going to a movie. That is a one way thing. Yeah. But to experience that, and there's an art to be, I always say there's an art to being a good audience member and to be engaged and to let yourself respond and to show that you're responding. That's an incredibly special experience on both sides. And you still get this even in the highest levels of theatre, right? Like I went to go see Mulan Rouge on Broadway, which is just pure silliness. Like there's nothing about it that's like deep or profound. It's just, it's fun. People are dancing. You go see that show. You're surrounded by like wine moms who are all just like drunken stinging along. Not my favorite show, but I had a good time. No, my favorite show. Right. I had a fun, you know. But then you go see a drama on Broadway, something that is new and interesting. And you may have fun moments, but you might also have like thoughtful moments. And the audience that intentionally goes to see that show is so different from the audience that goes to see Mulan Rouge, right? Like you are sitting, you could hear pins dropping. You're sitting in a space with hundreds of other people all intently focused on one word. And it is a magical, beautiful, interesting experience that I love. And I love both those experiences. and there's a speech from. both. I love seeing theater with you because we often react to things so similarly. One of my favorite moments was watching come from away. Like three rows back and both of us just sobbing. Oh my goodness. Like having this transcendent experience and sobbing and like trying not to disturb anybody and just hearing each other. Oh my gosh, but this is a huge musical loosely, but specifically having to do with 9/11. So it's like really ultra personal. Everybody's having their own experience all throughout the theater and like we were having our own very very personal experience. But also everybody else was too and it felt so safe to feel so vulnerable and open together in a place like that. Well and this is also what I love about theaters. The Freedom 2 feel so deeply and have feelings invoked in you and maybe you've had a really hard period of time and you're kind of like numb and then you go get to see something and you're cracked open and you cry or you laugh and it's also just in the moment. And I'm thinking if this isn't too, if this isn't take us back too far, I'm thinking back to like sitting in church and how much I loved those sermons that told me a story and took me on a journey and made me feel something. And I'm thinking about in ways, in ways if we're demonizing theater from certain lenses, what is the difference between a theater production and a sermon or what is the difference between a theater production and a really good testimony or a really like heartfelt prayer like some prayers are pretty performative. This is why I say if you had those experiences and you're really missing them, go to a concert, go to a play, go to a musical because it is the same sort of chemicals that start to flow. Absolutely. Yeah. I remember certain discussions being like, well, we shouldn't be feeling anything and it needs to be just the word of the Lord and and it's like the word of the Lord is full of stories, okay? Yeah. And yeah, the demonization of feeling is just really interesting. Yeah. I think that's why I love theater so much. When we talk about feeling, we're not just talking about the really heavy hard feelings. We're talking about all feelings, the entire spectrum of human emotion. So like feeling intense pure joy, feeling intense pure sorrow to feel embarrassment and cringe at maybe a social situation that's going on on stage or to feel romantic and sweet. It's all of those things and like we watch movies, it's there too. It's all different kinds of storytelling and I think we as humans need, we crave, we want this. But there's something really incredible about being in a dark space where it's so safe to just authentically, nobody's looking at you. No, you can sort of soak in whatever moment you're in. It's so special. It is so special. And I'm also thinking about how back to these conversations about people that would say, you know, sermons, you shouldn't be feeling things, you should just be taking in the word of the Lord. And I remember some of these discussions and me being like, yeah, you should be able to be like sober and somber and just take it in and not have to be taken for this ride as if emotions are just this like fluffy thing, not this incredibly important part of our humanity. But again, I don't think we celebrate humanity really in this worldview because of that and because of a variety of traumatic experiences, I think I was quite numb and I didn't for a long time really allow myself or even know how to experience movies or theater. I was not able to very often let emotion be evoked, especially live. Like, so when you gave me those musical theater recordings, I could go away and just sob and feel totally safe to do that. But it took me a long time to be able to even laugh out loud with other people taking in theater or taking in a movie. Like that, it was too vulnerable to laugh or cry. I think cry for years watching anything, taking in any kind of stories and being able to do that now is wonderful. Until I'm saying this, I've almost forgotten that that used to be my experience. Yeah, wow. I have grappled with my own ability to feel things authentically and fully. And I have brought that up in therapy because I have wondered about it. I know that I have the ability to feel things because I do. But sometimes it's just about the safety to feel them. And often I feel the most when I'm driving alone in my car and I'm listening to something and I can fully, fully feel it. But that's a bad time to ugly cry because it's unsafe in the road. So the theater has been another space for me where, you know, really actually truly I have gotten broken apart and put back together so many times. And it's been one of the most amazing places to learn my own feelings. Yeah. Was there something that you saw or something that you were in on stage that changed the trajectory of your life in any way, big or small? Yeah, I mean, when I was cast in God's spell, that was my first shows and adult, my first musical. It was like, oh, I can do this. They gave me some confidence. When I was cast in Rocky Horror, it was like, oh, somebody will pay me to do theater. Rocky Horror. Was that your first paid job? Yes. Wow. That was a huge boost for my confidence. And also, like, wow, you've seen me this way because I've also always been seen as the good girl. And I also, at that point, was still very locked up in my body. So the fact that they were like, yeah, you can do this. And I did and I loved it. It was one of the best experiences I've ever had. I know, I wish if there was anything, there was anything I wish had been that. In Cabaret, I did drag. I feel like that let me inhabit my body in a totally different way. And now, I guess I feel like what I'm doing now, because I'm playing Eliza in my Fair Lady feels like a really big moment that like, somebody trusts me to be in this kind of role. It feels great. It feels like the thing that I've wanted to be able to do for so long that I've known like, I can do that. I can carry that. And I work to really, really hard. And I don't know what's next and doesn't always need to be this, but this is just it's a really special moment for me. I like how one thing leads to another no matter what. Oh, yeah. You can't avoid it in this kind of community. You do a play and you meet somebody and then you do another play and you get to know this community. And then suddenly you're sort of absorbed into something completely new and your whole life is different. And when you build different skillsets, and I'm sure you've experienced this with every show that you've done props for you, have to build a different skill set for something you have to say yes to something you have never done before. Absolutely. And be like, I'll figure it out. Absolutely that. Yes. Totally. Very much. Yeah. What about you? What are some of the little, the little moments that have taken you on a journey to now? Oh, and not little. It's never little, but you know, trace them back. You were there for one of them. One was a play musical music review drag show. I'm not sure what it was. It was the craziest musical called, are you there? God, it's me, Karen Carpenter. And it was the story of, are you there? God, it's me Margaret. Set to the music of that old brother, sister, band, the Carpenter's notoriously Christian and notoriously controversial because Karen Carpenter was a very tragic figure. It's like this very campy music with a very campy, young coming of age story about a girl getting her period. It is to this day one of the coolest, weirdest things I've ever seen. I loved it. I got to play a 12 year old boy who was the love interest of Margaret, named Moose. And he was, he was a rock star and he got to sing like a crazy rock song. But I also got to do another character that was like this nerdy little Jewish boy who was in class and like, I don't know, it was crazy. I was a 27 year old man with a beard playing 12 year olds. It was a group of like eight of us and we had the time of our lives. And not only was it fun and silly and campy and draggy, but everybody who was anybody in Seattle came to see that show. We had celebrities who came to see our show. We were the thing for a minute. But the thing that was cool about that was it really to change my life in this way where up until that point, I hadn't had any community. And I didn't really have friends in the city. And I suddenly I was just bonded for life with these amazing, amazing people who like went through this like two, three month process together. We got to do this amazing show that had never existed quite this way before. And suddenly my world was opened up to this community and these people that were creative and artistic and doing things and trying things for the sake of trying things and creating for the sake of creating and not trying to make money necessarily and not trying to be on the front page of any magazine. They were just trying to make something that was interesting, maybe fun, maybe meaningful, but it was so cool to be a part of it. And now like those are my people for life. And I also I got work, I got jobs out of that. I met people who were able to give me jobs later and help like. guide me into my career. So that was a big one. The other one that is really formative for me was something that I saw in high school while we were at boarding school. I think you were not there. It was my senior year maybe. We were supposed to have a banquet, not a prom, because we all have proms. But we were supposed to have a banquet and something fell through and they didn't know what to do. So the administration just bought us all tickets to whatever play was showing in Denver at the time. And it happened to be a production of a musical called Big River. And it had been on Broadway. And it's the story of Huckleberry Finn. It's an old sort of bluegrassy musical. And this production was put on by Deaf West Theatre. So it's a Deaf Theatre company doing a musical. And half of the cast was hearing. And half of the cast was deaf and signing. And everybody was signing the entire show. So all the songs were signed in American Sign Language. All the choreography incorporated sign language somehow. It was really cool and really, really, really fun. And then as the story deepened and became more profound and you started to understand why this story was actually about deafness and the experience of being a deaf person, it becomes more and more interesting and meaningful and thoughtful. And then there's a song in the second act where they're singing one of the most beautiful, passionate songs. And suddenly all of the sound stops. And they keep signing all the lyrics. But there's no music. And that audience was completely silent. And we were mostly a hearing audience. And everybody was just spellbound by this moment of like how personal and meaningful that moment was and how passionate it was and how the passion didn't stop because the sound stopped. It just continued and it was it was big and beautiful and special and inclusive and accessible. And I decided that night that I wanted to learn sign language and go into Deaf Theatre. And in a couple months, I'll be doing my first musical with Deaf West Theatre. So it literally not even figuratively. I know I really can't. Yeah, it changed my actual life. And like how could we have known that you know when they bought those tickets, they were just doing something to save prom. But actually it changed my whole life. I moved to LA to study sign language because of that. Yeah, I know. Yeah. So I don't know. I think theatre as the power to also just completely just change how you see the world. I think something that you were saying earlier when you were talking about Karen Carpenter and and creating just to create. I think that might be one of the myths or one of the stories that we came to believe early on that I wish we didn't get, which is like there's only a career in the arts if you're famous or this is only worth doing. If you're gonna be a big stop. Yeah. There's just so much room. There is endless room and you don't even have to wait for somebody to give you something like we can create anything we want. Just for the joy of creating. There is a capitalist version of art and there is a personal art for art, say, worthiness. And I think there's space for both those things. Yeah, right. I love when I get paid. It is a rare experience that I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm making my art right now. Yeah. Yeah. It's huge. And I will do this forever if I never get another dollar. Truly. Yes. And I will do a passion project and a labor of love because I love this. I really do. And also I try to create in my spare time if there's ways to be creative. I like just making things. Having something that has never existed before. There's something really valuable about just creation. Yeah. What is the thing that you say? There was a something when before there wasn't a something. What is that thing? You say, look, I made a hat where there never was a hat. Yeah. Yeah. That's a Steven Sondheim lyric. It's one of my favorite songs. I think I was a little worried when we started this episode that it was going to be a little niche. Like it's just for the theater kids because we have big theater kid energy. And I know not everybody does. And I know that sometimes it could be annoying or people don't get it. It was a little self indulgent to be fair. Perhaps yes. And a little trip down memory lane. But the thing that I think has stuck with me that I digest and I think about constantly is the way that we both found ourselves by playing other people. And by being given the space to explore other people's words and other people's language. There's something about taking on someone else's persona and their life that teaches you a lot about your own. And I think that's universal. I do think this is niche, but I also think like there's something that resonates in all of us about putting ourselves in someone else's shoes for a little while. It's why we watch movies. It's why we listen to music and why we read essays. And it even is why we spend so much time on social media. We have an interest in other people's experiences. I think that's so innate. Well, and I think that's something that we've talked about again and again on this podcast is some of our most valuable life experiences where when we got to break out of the world that we were offered and see life through somebody else's eyes through somebody else's experience and how much that opened up our worlds. Yeah. Yeah. I love a world crack moment. I was a little tough early on, but it gets easier. All right. So what is the silliest thing you've ever done on stage? Oh, holy cats, give me a sec. What is the silliest thing? I think this is the silliest thing I've ever done on stage. When I was in cabaret and I was in drag and I was playing Hans during my introduction of Hans, the line was Hans has a very big cucumber and I pulled a cucumber out of my pants and took a bite at it and then I set it on somebody's table. I think that's the silliest thing I've ever done on stage. What about you? Ellen White was right. Theater's muddy and I love it. What? That of immorality. You participated. People going around eating cucumbers out of their pants. I love it. I would have a cucumber out of my own pants. I love it. Well, look. The silliest thing I've ever done on stage. What is? Oh, boy. What is the silliest thing I've ever done? I've done a lot of really silly things and a lot of them were in Christian Theater and that's true. I mean, okay. The silliest thing I ever did was Christian Theater. I mean, Christian Theater is very silly. Can I tell you all the different musicals I was in that were Christian, these were original musicals that were Christian musicals written by a Christian original musicals. Yes. I was in Oliver Twist, the Christian musical, Scrooge, the Christian musical, Beauty and the Beast, the Christian musical, Sleeping Beauty, the Christian musical, Treasure Island, the Christian musical, Aladdin, the Christian musical. I was in Tom Sawyer, Christian musical, the Secret Garden, the Christian musical, Heidi, the Christian musical. Wow. Oh, there are so many more than that. There was the right brothers, the Christian musical. I remember a lot of this, but I think I was either in it or not so far out of it that did not strike me as weird. No, people love it. They sound like shows. That's incredible. They love it. And they're still going. I was in Anne of Green Gables, the Christian musical. That's not a stretch. I think right now they're doing Wizard of Oz, the Christian musical. Yeah. Oh yeah, they're still going. They're very prolific. They've written quite a few and published many, many musicals. Well, I would never perform there again. It had a lot of value in my life, but I think one of the silliest things I ever did, and I don't know. There are many, but one of them was that I played a magical dancing chair in Beauty and the Beast, the Christian musical. It was absolute foolishness. They took a chair, a real chair, cut out the back of it and hung it around my neck. So I just walked around with a chair hanging off of my neck. It's really bad for your spine. That is terrible. But you're probably what, like 17. I was your recovery. This was after tour. It was the last thing I ever did with that theater. So I was probably like 24. Because you broke your spine. I know. I can't even move anymore. No, it was really, really silly. One among many of the silliest things I've ever done. Hey, Randy. Yes. Ask me a question. What is something in your life right now that you are trying to figure out? You do not have the answer to it. That show that I mentioned with the theater company, the Deaf West theater company that we're about to do is huge. It's the biggest one in my career so far. And while that's really cool, I'm trying to figure out how to handle the biggest budget and the most staff I've ever had. Because I run the shop. So I'm in charge of budgeting and staff and hours and labor and all that. And it's a you labyrinth on my calendar right now. Like it's the colors and all the different things that I'm trying to like map out on my calendar and in my budget spreadsheets. Like I'm not very good at this. This is kind of new for me. So I'm trying to figure that out and I'm doing okay. Is that an okay thing to talk about my job? I don't know. I feel like that's like a back door into my job a little bit. No, 100% the fact that it was the first thing you thought of. It's what I'm like I spent just the entire day today doing is like moving things around and trying to make everything make sense. It's also just wild how many times I've heard this. How many times you've taken on something and been like, well, I'll figure it out. Yeah, never done this before. Yeah, that's definitely what I do told him I could do it. So I better figure out how to do it. Oh my gosh. So many of us. I have faked it till I make it for most of my entire life. But this career man. It is so many unknowns. Like you said earlier, like every single show there is a certain healthy amount of absolute terror because there's something that I've never done before. So this one I know how to do the show. Like I know how to make all the furniture and props, but I don't know how to staff my shop. And that's very hard. But anyway, that's what I'm trying to figure out. It's a good example of how my job is constantly learning and constantly humbled because I do not know the thing. It's tough. And you always do. You always do that thing. I often do. And if I fail, boy, I feel spectacularly, but I learn from it. So that's something that you learn from it. Yeah. Hey, Cedric. Ask me a question. What was something that you tried for the first time recently? I'm also trying to think of something more deep and interesting, but all I can think of is a cockney accent. Hey, know that counts. Say it. Say cockney accent. Yeah, I caught me accent because, um, well, and the thing is it's not even that recent because I've been obsessed with getting this role since last fall. And I was like, there's no way there's no way. And so I started working on it last fall. Hey, that is something that you tried for the first time. That's good. Yeah. And so going into our dialect work. I feel like I'm at least a little bit of a head start as to where I would be. Yeah. That's hard. Yeah. That's new. It's hard. I keep going Australian. And that's not right. Oh my gosh. That's not good. No, that's terrible. It's not Australian. And the problem with accents is that they all over the course of our history have influenced each other. So you get Australian accents that are influenced by South African accents, which are influenced by British accents, which are in French. Right. It's not even that firm. Like you were doing one thing in our, we, I don't know if we have to keep all of this, but we were doing one thing in our dialect work. And I was like, I don't know about that. And I'm going back and I'm listening to the Broadway show. And it's like, actually, what do you think of this? And he's like, yeah, that would work too. That's another, you know, maybe two streets down. That's how they were talking. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It is so localized too. Boy, oh boy. That's, I mean, that's a big undertaking. Good for you. It is. I love it. I love it. Oh, you're stretching. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty great. Thank you for listening. I do think this was a little self-indulgent. It was one for the theater kids. Yeah, every now and then, you know what? The theater kids deserve something of their own every now and then. Yeah. Yeah, this is for all the theater kids out there. And honestly, for all the theater goers out there, thank you. And for anybody who's had their world open up by some kind of storytelling. Well, until next time, stay curious. Stay curious. Thanks for listening to Ask Me A Question. Our show is hosted by Sedrick Wright and Randy Moss. It features original artwork by Jared Wright and original music by Ryan Wheaton, who also edits the show. We are a small, independently produced operation that relies on word of mouth to grow our audience. Tell a friend about the show and follow us on social media, or on Instagram, ask me a question pod, and on Facebook at AMAQPod. You can also support the show for free by leaving a positive review and a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Help us grow the show and share the joy of curiosity. If you are able and would like to support the show financially, you can do so on our Patreon. In the spirit of building community, we recently added a free tier that allows access to discussion threads. Come join the conversation. Head over to patreon.com/askmeaquestion to learn more. You can find links to everything I've just mentioned in the show notes for this episode or on our website at AMAQPod.com. Thanks again for listening, and remember, stay curious. [Music]