Is the Swans' Brownlow ban really enough?

A.B.C. Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music, and more. Do you ever think that maybe the people making all the important decisions don't have a clue what they're doing? Stable, stable coins. Do you know what a stable coin is? Does anybody know, please raise your hand. The obvious solution to war is to have the West having the strongest, most precise, deadly weapons possible. I'm Matt Bevan, and on my show if you're listening, we take a look at every terrible decision that led to where we are today. New episodes every Tuesday and Thursday on A.B.C. Listen, or wherever you get your podcasts. It took a week, the head of the AFL has now fronted the press over the swan scandal. And in a nutshell, CEO Andrew Dillon has distanced the sport from the Sydney club, saying the actions of a few do not define the entire code. Today, investigative sports reporter Jessica Halleran on the AFL's response and why it's not enough. I'm Sam Hawling on Gadigal Land in Sydney. This is A.B.C. News Daily. IZachini, Chad Warner, Nick Blanky, James Jordan and Riley Bice have been stood down for the remainder of the season for breaching club standards. Victoria Police has launched a separate investigation into an alleged sexual assault, which the A.B.C. understands relates to a claim that a player touched a woman without her consent. Senior police sources telling the A.B.C. they understand extra payments were made for the players to allegedly snort cocaine off the women's buttocks and breasts. Three women believed to be adult entertainers at the hotel that night, now considering seeking compensation through civil litigation. I think it's really important to remember that really at the centre of this three women, our clients had her entire world turned upside down. Jess, more than a week since this scandal broke, the head of the AFL Andrew Dillon, he held a press conference. Of course, I've been a take a few questions, and then we'll go for an A.B.C. Now, the AFL had issued a statement last week, but this was the first time that journalists had a chance to ask him questions. And he thought that was pretty appropriate. Should he have come earlier? That's probably the event this issue. I think the swans have handled the matter publicly, and this was an appropriate time for us to speak. What do you think? Well, it had been a long time. It had been a week, which is an extraordinarily long time, the CEO of a major sporting organisation to break their silence on an issue, which is really emerging as one of the most troubling chapters in not only the swans history, but the AFL's history. All right, well, let's run through what he had to say. Now, I think in a nutshell, it wasn't too much right, because he kept referring to the fact that there is a police investigation underway, and the AFL will not be investigating until that is concluded. Yes, absolutely. It's a really important and a really serious matter, and the AFL can't get in the way of the police investigation. We've got a police investigation that's underway once that's completed, the AFL will make its own inquiries. Again, don't want to get into hypotheticals, because the police investigation will run its course. As I said, there's a police investigation going on now, once that's completed, we'll conduct our own inquiries, but the AFL won't get involved while there's a police investigation underway. As it has been from the get-go here, it has sort of been pushed back onto the swans, like last week we heard from all the swans leaders, they were fronting up, be it Keller Mills, the captain, Dean Cox, the coach, Matthew Pavlić, the CEO, and also the chair Andrew Pridham. And Andrew Dylan finally came up. He only answered a few questions. It wasn't a lengthy press conference. It kind of got wrapped up by one of their media chiefs. And the overwhelming statement from Andrew Dylan was that the actions of a few don't define the actions of the entire industry. I think the actions of a few don't take away from the thousands of people involved in football at all different levels who do great things all the time. I think people would argue against that, and it's a deeply, deeply concerning issue, and some would say, Andrew Dylan needs to address this. And as you say, he really did seem to be distancing the AFL as a whole from the swans, and he said that the team, the swans, is learning from the experience. Look, we've worked really closely with the club over the past week, met with the club board only a couple of weeks ago. It's a learning experience for the club, and I think it's something that they will continue to work through. Again, like we saw when this scandal first broke last week, it was immediately put onto the swans, the AFL were stepping back. It was to be a swans investigation into behavioural standards. And the AFL have not stepped in, the AFL integrity unit have not stepped in on this issue. Now, also, yes, there was some thought, and reporting around this before the press conference began, that there might be a focus on the accused players undergoing some sort of hair testing under the AFL's illicit drugs policy. What is that for starters, and what did Dylan have to say about that? Yes, he says that that will not be a focus for the AFL because of the police investigation. They're also stepping away from this issue of these allegations of drug use and the swans for ball players. Do you think you should take the hair sample out from those fires, just in case you don't need a post-the-place investigation? No, as I said, the police investigation is underway. In any event, a hair sample that would be taken, it goes back three, four, five months. There's a new illicit drugs policy that's being brought in in the off-season, and it involves hair testing. A follicle test can discover drugs in your body months after you've taken the drug. Before that, it was just mainly urine tests, and there was a three-strike policy. So there was a sentiment that positive drugs tests could be really concealed and covered up, and there was a deep concern within some members, within the AFL community, and outside it, that players were getting away with bad behaviour when it came to using illicit substances, and these kind of drug-taking events could be covered up. Now, there are reports, including in the City Morning Herald, that police have been alerted to a potential existence of a recording during that night. Now, the ABC has no evidence of that whatsoever, but Andrew Dillon was asked about it, wasn't he? Yes, he was. Look, I'm not aware of that, but again, if there is a tape that's relevant to the police investigation, it should be forwarded onto the place. When this news was breaking on Monday morning last week, that was one of the first aspects of this event that emerged that there was a recording, and now that has apparently been handed to the swans and then handed to the AFL Integrity Unit. And just briefly, the sports top award, of course, the Brownlow Medal, that was actually raised as well, wasn't it, in relation to these players, because some of them are star players, let's face it, and they could be up for that award. Yes, and it's interesting what the AFL has acted on in the last week, like they came out very soon after this issue broke, where they said, oh, any of those players that were in the running to be considered for all Australian selection just won't be now. And they deferred their all Australian team announcement, because it was understood that some of those players were included in that team. And now, again, they won't be invited to the Brownlow Medal. You know, you would have seen the likes of Vice Captain Isaac Haney, most likely there, and the same for Chad Warner, you know, two of the best players in the competition at this point in time. The advertisers for the Brownlow will be going out this week, those players won't be invited. They are still eligible for the Brownlow, but they're under a club suspension, which goes until the end of the season. All right, well, just the swans, they are now second on the ladder, after winning at the SCG on Sunday. Well, it was interesting to see how torn some of the fans were about being there, right? Some walked out, of course, after the women's game, after watching that women's game, because it was a double header. But Dylan, he actually noted that it was still a record crowd. So that was fascinating to me. He was questioned specifically about the fans walking out, and he said, well, when there is a double header, this sometimes happens. So he was really playing that down. Look, we saw an amazing crowd for the AFLW game, the highest crowd that down the Sydney AFLW has had over 16,000, and then we had a crowd of over 30,000 for the men's game. There was some people that left the games in between, but that's happened in other double headers. It was a special day for the swans, it was a tough day. But I listened to some of these fans who expressed disappointment and walked out. They walked out with thrines like stopgented violence against women, and they were feeling it deeply. and they were protesting and they were saying no. This guy needs to do better, this team needs to do better and they felt absolutely devastated by what had happened. - It's a difficult week. It's hard to wear the colours today, to be honest. - My dog was called TV, he is no longer. - But I've actually been really gutted. Like, I could not believe it. - Now, tell me, I mean, sponsors are everything. It's facet, so how have the sponsors of the swans been responding so far? - Well, there was this extraordinary moment before this or broke where Isaac Haney had launched a series of kids books five days before the events at the Pullman Hotel on Monday. And there's a social media video circulating of Isaac going into Dimmick's in the city and seeing his book. Now, it's no surprise that those books have now been pulled. Chad Warner and Isaac Haney also had Telstra sponsorships, which have been suspended. Other major sponsors, like the football club sponsors like QBE, they are currently still standing by the swans and the same for Volkswagen. That's where it's standing at the moment when it comes to sponsorship. (upbeat music) - Now, tell me, Jess, you argue that this is the darkest chapter in Sydney swans history and it has a very long history, of course. But it also has spotlighted a sort of AFL underbelly. If you like, what do you mean by that? - Well, I think over the years, particularly the last 16 years, when we've had cases of sexual assault, sexual misconduct, sexism arise within the AFL industry. It's been dealt with in different ways. There's no sort of uniform matter. Well, they may have a respect and responsibility policy. There's not a blanket rule when it comes to, say, in this most serious case, a sexual assault allegation if there are charges laid, which they have not been yet. And one of the most interesting things I've covered over the years is the NRL stand-down policy, which was enacted in 2019. If a player is found to be charged with the sexual assault, they are automatically stood down from the game. Now, that does not happen in the AFL. And if you speak to people in the NRL, you speak to rugby league commissioners. They will say that that has triggered a massive cultural change, a positive change for the better in their game. So it's interesting looking at the AFL, looking at the number of things that have happened over the years. And it is worth considering does the AFL need a stand-down policy? Will that help in instances where there is a player charged with sexual assault that is shown to the community that this code takes an allegation of violence against a woman incredibly seriously? Just so I've got to clear, there are no vaults stand down. Policy wouldn't apply in this case yet. Not yet, they would have to be charged by police. Yes. So what do you think then that the AFL is resisting this no-fold stand-down policy that, as you say, the NRL has said is really changed the culture for its sport? Well, if you speak to the AFL's players' association, they don't want this policy. They have traditionally opposed it. There was a player who played for Geelong last year who was stood down quietly and he had a suppression order against his name. So nobody ever knew that he had been charged with rape, which was eventually withdrawn and thrown out. But they feel it's grossly unfair that a footballer who is charged with sexual assault is not allowed to play. Now, the NRL policy, that is not saying the player is guilty. It's called no-fold for a reason. But they are stood down on full pay. They are allowed to be in the football club and train, but they're just not allowed to run out on game day. And that's what an incredible deterrent. Yes, it's worked. They have the data to show it works. All right. Well, just what do you think? Will this, in the end, just all blow over for the swans? You say it's a really dark chapter of its history, but we've seen in the past, haven't we, that clubs tend to recover? Yes, they do. And I think if you've got good men and women leading your club and make big, decisive change around culture, the swans have said they're going to do a cultural review, what that means, how that'll be done will be interesting. But I think if you listen to people like Swan's head coach, Dean Cox, who says, we need to get the trust back then, I think that's strong admirable leadership. But on a broader scale, after listening to Andrew Dylan, we're saying it's just the actions of a few. I'm interested to see where it goes from here for the AFL and if they are willing to make a big policy change. Jessica Halleran is an investigative sports reporter with the ABC. This episode was produced by Alaria Brophy and Louise Mylon, audio production by Sam Dunn. Our supervising producer is Sydney Pied. I'm Sam Halle. Thanks for listening.