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Speaker 3And we should be live. Welcome to Thoughtful Money. I'm Thoughtful Money founder and your host, Adam Taggart. Welcome you here for one of our regular checkups on all things gold and silver and precious metals related with the CEO and co-founder of Miles Franklin. Of course, I'm talking about Andy Sheckman. Andy, how you doing?
Speaker 4I'm good, Adam. How are you, my man? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3Thank you. Always wonderful having you on, buddy. Thanks for coming on earlier in the day after an election night. I don't know. I don't know if you were like me, but I was up pretty late looking at the results and everything coming in. So thanks for coming. I know you just jumped off another podcast to be here, which is why we're starting like two minutes late. So thank you so much for making the time for us.
Speaker 4Yeah, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 3I'm sorry I was late. No, no, no, not at all. Okay. So I am, as I tell you every time, Andy, I've got to name these live streams before we actually do them. But this one, I think maybe I did aptly name given the timing. So the title of it is, is the bottom now in for gold and silver prices. And I know bottom calling is tough. It's a dangerous game. But gold has been trending down pretty much all year, but certainly over the past two months. I mean, almost on a daily and a day for day basis. But I'm going to try to share my screen here. Real quickly. And let me see if I can share these charts with folks. Gold hit a new all time low for the year a couple of days ago. But it seemed to kind of firm up a little bit. We'd had people like probably yourself, but also Ronnie Stifferly from InGoldWeTrust saying his confidence that we were near a capitulation bottom was high. And then after the election, we saw a really big bounce in terms of the market's response here. Who knows how long it's going to last for? But let me just let me just pick this up here. So as folks can see over the past couple of days, you know, gold was trying to find a bottom kind of had this potentially capitulation low here right on right before Halloween, maybe firming up a bit and then a nice big spike here following the elections back up over 4000. We have similar action going on in silver. So, Andy, back to the title of this program. What do you think it's early, but could a bottom be in here?
Speaker 4It could be in there. There might be more softness. And, you know, I read one of the comments right when I got on. I haven't been right all year. I mean, in price, I haven't. You're right. I mean, I'm fine admitting that price wise. I haven't been, but it doesn't matter. Now, why doesn't it matter? At least it doesn't matter in my thinking, right? Because in my thinking so far this year, we've had over 81 almost 82, if not higher. I haven't looked this week billion dollars in gold delivered to comex. We've had pretty darn well near 20 billion in gold or silver delivered to comex. We have seen the central banks buy at levels that are unrivaled pretty, pretty nearly unrivaled. And in the past, we've seen China import record sums in the first eight months over almost 1100 metric tons multiply 1100 times 32,150 ounces and that's what you get. They bought almost 800,000 ounces in September. And I think that the deliveries and the accumulation as prices have gone lower to me. Betrays the value betrays the value that we're being led to believe betrays the price. Let me just kind of lead you through a couple of things and you can all make your decision yourself. You know, we all talk about silver being classified a critical mineral through the geologic survey reclassification. But in March through executive order gold was executive order 14241 was was reclassified critical as well. Before I finish, so let me sort of jack
Speaker 3so gold has been added to the critical elements list. This is an addition of it being by executive order.
Speaker 4Okay, so this is in
Speaker 3addition to it being made a tier one asset with Banks through through the Basel updates.
Speaker 4Correct. And I'm going to ask you a question before I finish. Do you know what was just voted the freest economy in the world by a Canadian think-tank? There's a Canadian company called the Fraser Institute. Do you know which was voted the freest economy in the world? Take a guess and which nation? Yeah, which economy in the world out of out of 165 jurisdictions? Which one do you think was voted the freest economy by the Canadian Fraser Institute?
Speaker 3God, I don't know. I'm going to go with the must be America and I'm sure it's wrong because you're asking me this question.
Speaker 4So right it'd be Hong Kong and it's been voted the world's freest economy. First amongst 165 jurisdictions. Now when you take a look at Hong Kong, let me just tell you what they're doing right now with gold. They just took a major step in in financializing gold and we've talked a lot about the rails that they built, right? We talked about all the payment systems and all of the the settlement systems with or the vaulting systems in our settlement system in Hong Kong. In you want same-day settlement that goes into effect first quarter 2027, they just did something. Something called Project Ensemble and it's it's live it. They haven't really given all of the details yet like in terms of the nitty-gritty, but it supports 24 settlement using tokenized central bank money and there's like up to 20 Banks involved in it in Hong Kong, but they have also advanced the system to now allow 400 ounce gold bars that can be traded and settled digitally between the banks. So think about what that means. You have all this gold sitting in a vault that now will become financial collateral. It will support lending and financing and transactions around the clock. This is going on in Hong Kong at the same time. They have all of the rails sips and pics and p-a-a-s-s and UPI and Enbridge. And so the one of the things that I've been wrong about in terms you want to say what I've been wrong about I've been wrong about when analyzing the bricks that they would ever dream of having a unified currency. It's not what they're going to do. They do have the the unit settlement currency that just did their first successful transaction between United Arab Emirates in India. But what they are doing and where this all comes together with gold is that they have the thrust of the last meeting. They just had in September was interoperability every one of these countries all of these nations have built and have operational cross-border payment systems that run parallel to Swift, but don't cross with it. There are vaults that have been built Saudi Arabia United Arab Emirates. Same-day settlement Singapore same-day settlement Shanghai Hong Kong same-day settlement in Yuan and in dollars Mumbai. We said Mumbai on the way to Mumbai. You also have st. Petersburg and Moscow and all of these vaults that are being built through the Belt Road. They're the arteries the veins are the payment systems. And they are going to the whole thrust was interoperability to connecting all of these things through bricks. Paying bricks. Enbridge is what they have done and what they will do and gold will be the settlement system. They will use gold to settle in balances and you are seeing that and this is why you're seeing such massive inflows. Not only into those countries, but massive exports out of comex out of the United States to China anything that hasn't been nailed down their exporting. They're sucking it all over there. And so, what they have been doing along with playing the game with the West playing the Western suppression, which if the price was indicative of value, then why are the most well-informed Traders in the world buying and and and taking possession of gold at levels that nobody has ever seen before they're doing it at the same time. They're building the infrastructure to challenge not to replace but to challenge the West with an alternative payment systems payment Rails. settlement systems, all of this is happening right now. And so when I look at the price, I don't get as depressed as a lot of people might otherwise get because I see that you cannot run from mathematics and you cannot run from the economics of this and the logic of it. So when I see $82 billion worth of gold go into COMEX this year by delivery, and the central bank's buying at these levels, and reports coming out from Goldman Sachs and the IMF and the World Gold Council that they're all lying about how much they're buying. It's actually much more. I don't worry about it at all. I don't. I think ultimately the price goes much, much higher. And if I had to guess, and I could be way off base on this, I've said this, if I had to guess, it has been the West that has been suppressing the price because they realized they were behind the eight ball and they needed to accumulate the metal by price. through the commercial banks and leave it there. So no one, no one even thinks twice while it's sitting in JP Morgan's vault or it's sitting in this one's vault. Who cares if it belongs to the treasury through the exchange stabilization fund, who is knocking down the price because they're both critical mineral for national security. Well, no one's going to notice. And when it leaves the vaults, like the 39 million ounces that left COMEX in September and in February, the silver, everyone freaks out who just took possession of 3 million pounds of silver worth $4 billion. Where did it go? Where did it go? No, let's just leave it there. My guess is price has been used to misdirect everybody across the globe, except the people who understand what it's worth. Um, and so yeah, maybe the bottom is in technically, yes, it's very, very, it's way oversold and it's reached, it's, it's, it's reached some fairly significant technical resistance levels. Could it fall further? Sure. Um, but I would like to think that, uh, $4,000 is, you know, kind of the, it's been the resistance forever. I think we're back above 4,000 this morning, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, we are. I'd like to think that's the floor, but who knows, right? Could it be a dead cat? Sure. But in the end, does it matter? Yeah, it matters. But does it really matter when the people who make the rules are buying at levels no one has ever seen and no one's talking about it? That even kind of accentuates it more that, yeah, if I had to guess, we're very close to the bottom and, and, uh, but the big money accumulating, it tells you that price is, is not the ultimate consideration.
Speaker 3Okay. So a couple of things. Um, first off, last time you were on, we'd spent some time sort of on the thought exercise of, you know, the U S officially has, what is it? 8,000 tons of gold or something like that. But that number hasn't changed since when the late forties.
Speaker 4Yep. No. Well, I know they haven't audited since 52 or
Speaker 3three. Okay. Um, and I guess I'd say maybe from the seventies, cause we knew that, um, other countries like France were pulling their gold out before Nixon shut the gold window. So anyways, you know, it's been on the books forever. We've got about 8,000 tons. Um, and as the rest of the world, um, has been buying gold hand over fist, you know, the central banks, we have all this data. Um, and we think that data is undercounted. You know, we've sort of asked the question, well, okay, why hasn't the U S been, been buying any gold in that environment? And your answer was, Hey, they probably are in the ways that you just mentioned, right. Through proxies, maybe keeping it stored, JP Morgan, whatnot. Um, maybe yes, yes. Yeah. So, I mean, it does, there is definitely a compelling logic there that the U S wouldn't be asleep at the wheel while everybody else is doing that. And at the same time, while gold becomes a tier one banking asset, while a gold is added to the critical minerals list, you would think if anything's added to the critical minerals list, the government is saying, well, we want to increase our stockpile of that because it is so essential, right? So I, I totally get your, your, your logic there. I ask you this every time. Um, uh, you know, you have been saying the Chinese buying, um, has been white hot this year. You know, they've been a big buyer in past years, but so far 2026 is, is, uh, their highest buying volume ever. And, uh, at least in the last
Speaker 411 years, I think if at least in the last 11 years.
Speaker 3All right. So it beats the recent data set that we have. Um, and the year's not over yet. Right. So they still have two more years to continue adding to this. Um, as you look back to the past month or so, um, is the intensity of the buying still maintaining, or are we seeing any trends that maybe it's starting to cool off?
Speaker 4Yeah, I think it, it is, um, continuing. I, you know, typically the numbers that you see are, are, a little bit behind a couple months behind, but, um, I think China, um, in the first eight months of the year had imported almost 1100 metric tons. Um, they added, I believe 740 or 750,000 ounces in September, which was the 23rd straight month of accumulation. And again, those import numbers annualized would be the highest amount in 11 years. Now I haven't seen October numbers yet, but I have no reason to believe that they're not. Every bit is white hot. And when you look at Goldman Sachs came out and said their numbers, their reporting is, is full of, you know, what, because they're buying way more than that. We can see it through the import numbers. And as I've always said, if, if gold is imported by proxy through the P people's liberation army on behalf of the PBOC or a commercial bank, it's not reported it's voluntary reporting to begin with, but yeah, just what they have reported, they've reported the most on an annualized basis in over a decade, almost 1100. Well, if you add in the, if you add in the September numbers, you're at basically 1200 metric tons of gold. That's just to give you an idea of what that really is. Cause it doesn't sound like a lot, right? But if you take 1200 times 32,150, that's 38,580,000 ounces of gold. Let's call it times 4,000. That's got an E that's 154 billion, $320 million worth of gold so far this year. Is that inconsequential? No. And if it's actually under-reported by a large magnitude, no. And if they're the largest producers in the world, no, it's not inconsequential. And then they're building the rails and the payment systems and the vaulting systems quietly to reintegrate gold into the monetary system. And the central banks are doing the same thing. And I would ask who was right. Who's got this figured out? The central banks, the Chinese, the sovereign buyers, the major Western investor who believes that the road to retirement is only paved with mutual funds and stock certificates. I would ask you who has it right. We do know that these banks have been accumulating gold and silver hand over fist. And those numbers, according to the IMF, the World Gold Council and Goldman Sachs are massively under-reported.
Speaker 3Okay. So to a certain extent, China and a number of other countries in perhaps even the U.S. are looking at the lower precious metals prices this year, and they're leaning into them, right? China, for sure, buying at a higher volume.
Speaker 4Look, let me say this. If you thought, if you had the ability, and again, you know, I look at all of the facts, right? Everything I say up until, well, those are facts. But well, I'll say this. If you had the ability, you came to President Trump and said, look, these are national security. These are national security issues now. We've classified them. Quietly scold. We were very loud about silver. No one knows. So many people don't even know about that executive order. It's right there. It's section two. You can read it. 1-2-1-4-1. Read it. Section two. Gold is critical mineral, along with potash and uranium and copper, I think. But anyways, if you had the ability, look, Mr. President, here's what we got to do. It's late. They've been doing this for years. They've been beating us at our own game. The previous administration didn't get this. We're late. We need to step on the futures price right now with the banks. Give them immunity. They need to step on it and use it to quietly stand for delivery. But won't that affect our balance sheet? Well, yes, Mr. President, you're right. It would. But because the Exchange Stabilization Fund, through national security, can do this without congressional approval, if we import it through them by. Proxy by the banks and just leave it in the COMEX account. It won't hit our balance sheet. No one's going to know. It will quietly be transitioned to the Treasury at a certain period of time. When is that time? I don't know. But I will say this. When the Chinese start pricing gold contracts in yuan for same-day settlement, the game is over. I mean, I don't know how you can continue to play stupid using these prices. When they're going to deliver in yuan for same-day settlement, they'll say it will be a much higher price than anyone who's stupid enough to give it away at these prices. We'll be arbitraged over by exchange for physical to Brinks Hong Kong. And boom, it's over. Now you've just siphoned everything over at a subsidized price, and the relevancy of the Western price setting is done. So can they continue to play this game? Yeah, probably for a little bit longer. And maybe that is why we haven't heard who the hell is standing for delivery for two straight years in these amounts. Because if you look at what the exchange. Stabilization Fund, their charter, which was, I think, a built in, it was, came into existence in 1934, and they can indeed intervene in currency and gold markets. national security and they don't need congressional approval if it's so. So look, I don't know that to be fact, but I'll tell you this, either that, or there are some very smart people with a whole hell of a lot of money that are standing for delivery because no one ever went this far. They would either roll forward their contracts, they would cash settle, or they would leave. They never said, nah, I want the actual physical certificates and settle for it. Pay the money and settle. And that is what is exactly what is happening. And that's never happened before in my entire career ever. And it is nonstop. And the fact that no one asks about it, to me, even makes it more compelling when the mainstream doesn't say who's doing.
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Speaker 3Okay. And I've got a great question for you, Andy, but your connection here just froze. So hopefully you're going to unfreeze or log out and log back in if you can hear me here. So the question I'm going to ask Andy, folks, as soon as he pumps back in here, is, okay, so let's say Andy's total forecasting comes to pass and we have China and its partners and the rest of the world saying, look, we're just going to do, you know, trade in this new gold-backed trade currency. The U.S. comes out and says, hey, we're not going to be left behind. We're going to use Tether and, you know, basically the power of these new crypto rails that we've laid down to make sure that we get greater control of the world's gold supply. What are the implications for the price in a world like that? And while I'm waiting for Andy to hopefully pop back in here, I know, ironic timing to glitch there. You know, what does he think will happen to price there? Because I think a big question that folks have been asking themselves over this year is, okay, you know, I get that gold prices are slumping because they just shot the moon at the beginning of this year and there was a ton of froth and that had to come out. And then real rates have been rising as bond yields have been going up. But, you know, if there's so much buying demand going on by massive sovereign players, how come that isn't providing a bigger support to the gold price here? So, again, we'll get into that with Andy, hopefully when he joins back in. And in just a couple of seconds. So another question I'm going to ask him, which I'll just opine on while we're waiting, which is, okay, so if this is going on and the sovereigns are essentially using this opportunity to say, hey, this is a gift, you know, we're buying this stuff in bulk and the price keeps going down, we're getting a better and better deal. Shouldn't the individual who's paying attention basically copy that strategy? And say, hey, look, as long as this stuff is at what could be fire sale prices, should I be adding it here over time? As I've recommended and Andy recommends on this channel very often that, you know, folks should be dollar cost averaging that strategy, you know, to the extent gold has just bottomed here and we don't know yet folks, but to the extent it has, you know, that's going to work out really well in your favor. And so, you know, if you are not already dollar cost averaging, there's never really a bad time not to do it because if you have a long-term horizon, you know, it should work in your favor if there's a rising tide on the price over time. But certainly when the prices are going down like this, yes, it hurts if you've got an existing holding of precious metals that you're watching the total market value begin to drop. But, you know, those are the times where you're really basically accumulating your future value. Because the lower the price you buy at, the higher your profit is going to be down the road when the price recovers. All right, folks. Well, I'm not sure what happened to Andy there. I hope he's okay. I'm going to try giving him a quick call live on air if you guys don't mind hanging on here with me. But I will also take live questions from the live chat here. So if you have any questions that you want to ask me, feel free to ask. I'm sorry, my friend. What, Andy? Was that me or you? That was you. You somehow kicked out. Can you log back in? It wasn't trying to get me.
Speaker 4I'm restarting the computer. It just froze. Every time I try to get back on it, it will say, this isn't available. I'm restarting it right now.
Speaker 3I'll be right back. All right. I'll keep tap dancing. Thanks. All right, folks. So if you could hear Andy there, he said that things have frozen on his end, but he's rebooting his computer. He'll hopefully be joining us very quickly. Another question I'll ask him, and I'd love to get folks' thoughts on the live chat while we're waiting, if possible. And really, folks, this is not a partisan question. It's really just an honest question, given the results of the election last night and whether you're happy with them or whether you're not happy with them. A Democrat sweep of this magnitude obviously seems to send a signal as to where the- Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot to be said about it. I mean, I think there's a lot to be said about it. I think there's a lot to be said about it. And a number of the candidates that won are Democratic socialists. And these are people that are running on platforms of wealth redistribution or, at the very least, pretty generous social spending programs. And I'm curious if that's one of the things that the precious metals might be reacting to here, where they think if this is an indicator that 2028 might go the way of those type of candidates, then does the fiscal spending from the government increase even further under that type of administration? And is gold already starting to predict that? I see Andy here. Let me bring him back in. Andy, brother, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4I think they're trying to silence me, Adam. They're trying to silence me.
Speaker 3Maybe that's it. Maybe you were giving too much away and the authorities said, "Cut this guy's cord." Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4Could be. Could be. So let's jump back in. I apologize. And by the way, I can stay as long as you want me to.
Speaker 3No worries. All right. Thanks. Well, we'll try to contain this still within the hour if we can. It depends how many questions the audience has for you a bit later on. Sure. So a couple of questions I flagged for folks that I wanted to ask you when you came back. Let's start with the first one, which is, it's just a little bit of a head scratcher still for me. So I totally understand why prices are materially lower than the prices were in January. Because we had a bubble in the precious metal prices then. Massive blow off top. Okay. So got to get rid of all the froth. Maybe things will overcorrect for a period of time. 11 months is a long period of time to keep correcting, but who knows? Maybe that's just a math. I don't really know. But when you add into that the prodigious buying of the sovereign nations that we've been talking about at the volumes they're buying at, I just wonder, why doesn't that put more of a floor under the price of gold here? Are you a little mystified, like me, that the price hasn't held up better this year, just simply given the volume of foreign sovereign purchases and perhaps even stealth US purchases? Or does the things that kind of happened in the background not matter as much to the price?
Speaker 4Well, I mean, that's a fair question, man. It is. That's totally a fair question. But look at how much gold has gone up. Forget about the blow off top, right? The blow off top, you had massive speculation, COMEX-based speculation. And that's part of the reason I think they jacked margin rates up so high. You had the traders and the hedge funds that jumped in with both feet, figuring I'll make lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of money, and they did. And then the tables got flipped on them. So, you know, it broke through the cup and handle. And often when you break through a cup and handle, you see a parabolic move, but it comes back to test the handle, more or less, is what it does. And that blow off top, Richard Russell used to always say a 50% retracement type of thing is totally normal. Silver's gone through that, of course. But gold, you know, a 50% retracement from where you started to where you went is normal. It blows off all the froth. But I think that the people that paint the tape are very sophisticated in this. I think that they are very, very sophisticated. They understand that if you violate moving averages, if you violate technicals, the majority of all of the the Wall Street traders are doing this by black box, non-emotional algorithmic trading programs that once violated, they leave. And they've kept it within a trading range showing great volatility that is completely and totally counterintuitive. But the number of the rehypothecation with paper allows this to be controlled, to be mitigated. The price is mitigated. So by selling short paper, you have tremendous amounts of leverage that enable you to keep the price within a certain range. But even still, I mean, it's averaged over 10% per year for the last 25 years. It's been moving up over the last several 30, 40, 50% per year. The blow off top, you know, you, the blow off top, certainly, I think, woke up those that have been trying to mitigate the rise. And they did all they could to not allow that to happen again. And if you were indeed part of a coordinated effort, whether it be the Treasury or the central banks, and I think it largely is the Treasury and the Western entities that have done this forever, the last thing you would want to see is, are all of the traders jumping in? Now, if you look at what's called open interest, it's as low as it's ever been, meaning the open interest are the hedge funds, the buyers. And by the way, since July, the hedge funds have completely reversed. And they were wickedly long, and now they're short, big short. Who's long? The commercial banks, the ones that probably know where the puck is going. You're going to see the price turn around. But they did a very, very masterful job. Look, if the commercial banks are the ones that have been suppressing the price, maybe even it was, they were being told to do it for a reason. The last thing they want to see are all the speculative traders jump in, push the price parabolically higher. They did. They let it go higher. They raised margin 300% as the ETFs rebalanced. They crushed it, and they haven't stopped stepping on it to dishearten, if you will, the managed money. And the managed money open interest is the lowest it has been, and I can't even tell you how long. It's like they're like, I don't want to even play in the sandbox right now.
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Speaker 2And is that because they just
Speaker 3got so zorched earlier this year?
Speaker 4Well, you would think so. After all of these years of getting zorched, you would think that they would just have figured that out a long time ago. But look at the open interest. It's very, very, very low. Not only that, it's very oversold. But the COMEX market is massively rehypothecated. Now, you'll get, I was reading a very interesting article by David Jensen. And David Jensen, I would recommend everyone check him out. I don't know if you've ever interviewed David, but he has massive knowledge on the LBMA. And, you know, he was pushing back against a lot of people, but he was pushing back against the LBMA. And David Jensen said, well, I don't know if you've heard of the LBMA. I don't know if you've heard of the LBMA. I don't know if you've ever heard of the LBMA. I don't know if you've have operated, these systems in unison have operated under the assumption that very few, if any, stand for delivery. It's just like the goldsmiths of back in the day. Well, no one ever comes to get their gold, so we can sell more and more and more and more paper. And so the paper overwhelms massively by like 200. They trade over 200 times the amount of available silver on a daily basis on Colmax. And when you look at the amount of trading that is done, it's ridiculous. So as an example, let's see if I can remember the numbers. I can tell you that the managed money long positions is at their lowest in 52 weeks. That I do know. But if you look at the actual numbers, I'm almost positive it's over 200 times the amount of available bars that could be delivered, traded every single day on Colmax. Well, how do you do that? And in their trading in total, the daily volume is about 400 million ounces on silver, okay? We only mine 800 million ounces a year. So they're trading 400 million ounces of silver paper. They're trading in two days the amount of global mine production per year. And that's way more than the number of bars that are standing behind those contracts. Same thing with gold. And they do the same thing in London. It is the rehypothecation of this market that has enabled the West to control these prices forever. And for whatever their reason, Gibson's paradox, inverse relationship between real interest rates and gold, or the military-industrial complex's need for the Western world to make high-tech weapons, they've kept them cheap using rehypothecation. But this is where the story changes because the world has become coordinated, sophisticated, motivated, educated, angry, wealthy. And playing at the same game. So while they've been playing the same game by accumulating on the cheap, they've built the rails and the payment systems and the vaulting systems and the settlement systems to challenge the West. And now they're tokenizing their gold for 24-7 trading and collateralization and lending. And they are building the rails and the systems and accumulating quietly everything to challenge the West. And they're playing the same game as far as I'm concerned. And I would too if I were them.
Speaker 3Okay. I want to go through a little bit of a lightning around here, but just to connect some of the dots that you've said here. So the sovereign players are basically saying, look, we got a lot of strategic reasons to own this thing. The cheaper the price gets, the better for us right now because we're bulk buyers, right? We get a better and better deal the lower the price goes. So we've talked a bit about this in the past, but you would think that the, um, you know, intelligent minded retail investor who's watching from the sidelines would say, well, okay, well, that's working in their interests. It's working in my interest too. So, um, the, the regular person, you know, should be looking at this and saying, as long as gold's on sale, I should be adding to it. So at a minimum, um, a dollar cost averaging program, you know, has actually made a ton of sense this year. Yeah. If you've been holding onto an existing stack of gold, you've been, been feeling the pain of the overall price coming down but if you're making it you know purchases you know, you've been doing this for a long time, you've been doing this for a long time, along the way as the price gets lower and lower and lower provided indeed the price does go higher down the road this is where you're locking in your future gains right you're nodding as i'm saying this and folks can see that that's what i like about this split screen is i'll often say that and folks folks think i'm making it up but you were nodding um so a anything you want to add about that. And B, can you just confirm again that Miles Franklin, as I'm sure other dealers do, but you guys have a program in place that helps people dollar cost average, right? Where they can set it up and kind of set it and forget it, right? They can just go about their daily lives. They can just go and earn their income or do whatever. And every week, two weeks, month or whatever, they're making regular purchases.
Speaker 4Totally. We can help them do that. All we need is an ACH or you're routing an account number and we process it through U.S. Bank every month. That's easy to do. And that's exactly what what I believe the global south has been doing, realizing this and have been standing for delivery in a price and elastic manner. They don't care what the price is. And the lower the price is gone, the more they've stepped up their purchases. I just want people to think, is it unusual? Do you think that both gold and silver broke 50 and 4000 precisely on the final trading day of October? both critical psychological levels were broken i don't know seems kind of suspicious to me but and now they've moved back up so much of this is controlled so much of it is is is paper positioning and that that is going to change when i believe you start to see real pricing in another currency for same day settlement that is when it changes so yes i do believe it is good and for those that have purchased metal much higher remember you do have the ability if you wish to sell it back to us for a small spread of between two and three percent and then purchase it right back immediately with no paper trail because he never wrote out a check. We just send you back the material minus three percent or whatever. You send us a check for that amount. That's not a violation of the 30 day wash rule. So if people have bought gold at five thousand or bought silver at a hundred or future capital gains and carry forward, you can do so and get your metal back with privacy because you send us, it has to change hands. We receive the metal, we send it back to you minus 3%. You never wrote out a check. You've done everything legally. You can show what you've done with it. But I call that constructive reporting. No, I sold all my stuff in 2026. What do you do with the proceeds? Well, if I have to show you, here it is, but otherwise it's none of your business. So it is something we can do. If people want to do it, it is legal. But yeah, I think the price will go higher. Look, there is no other way out of this, but to inflate away the money supply, financial repression and holding assets is the only way to survive.
Speaker 3Okay. And I'm sorry, walk me through that one more time and let's use the example of silver. So let's say silver back in July, it's now 50, 60% less. I can actually do this transaction, not trigger the wash rule and still hold onto my silver. You had a million dollars
Speaker 4worth of silver that had a 50% loss. You have a half a million dollar loss. If it's in a storage facility, it's simple. We just move it out into our account and then right back. We have to charge an amount minus the movement and the payment of, or the charge it brings to move it enough to pass the sniff test. It has to be done the right way where it's actually moved, right? It's legal if you do it the right way.
Speaker 3It costs me an additional 3% or so.
Speaker 4Total. So it costs you, let's say, and that's still, that's a lot of money, right? Okay. It costs you 3%. However, you now just wrote off $500,000 against capital gains. And here's the interesting part. What'd you do with the proceeds? It's none of your business. But in essence, what you did is minus that 3%, we just moved the metal right back. You never wrote a checkout for it. So you sold your metal. You bought it right back privately. It's sitting in your account. You never got rid of the possession. You never bought it back. You never bought the possession just for a second. It goes right back. And now you have that paper trail free legally. You have the privacy and the write-off that you can legally write off against future capital gains or capital gains you have right now, or 3,000 a year off the regular income. Okay. And I'm sorry, how does that not trigger the wash rule? Because the wash rule is specifically for securities. It is not for commodities.
Speaker 3It's because it's not a publicly traded security.
Speaker 4Correct. And we have legal opinions. We've validated it and verified it a million times. We've been doing it for 20 years. And I think the loophole will close largely because of cryptocurrency, because crypto is viewed the same way gold is, as personal property. And you can do it with crypto too, as long as it's not a security. And therefore, it just allows you to think of cows. You can buy a cow here and you can buy it and sell it there. For example, in securities, there's something called FIFO, first in, first out. That doesn't apply. It doesn't apply to commodities. You could sell anything you want at any time. I'll sell this one, not the first one. Commodities doesn't apply to those things.
Speaker 3Okay. So this is super interesting. So folks, if you are sitting on large losses right now, capital losses on your precious metals, and you are interested with this, I would suggest you do two things. You talk to Andy and his team there at Miles Franklin and really try to understand exactly the ins and outs of this. Then talk to your CPA and just make sure that you're in the right place. Make sure, hey, you cool with this? If the IRS comes knocking, can you explain this confidently? But if the answers to all those are yes, that's fantastic. I just wrote a note down here.
Speaker 4We tell people to ask their CPAs. I've never had one come back after they researched it. They'll be like, "I'll be damned. You're right. I've never heard of that before." And people are only familiar with the 30-day wash rule, which would say if you sell, let's say, Apple at a loss, you don't want to get rid of it, but you want to book the loss to write off against some other capital gains. Well, you can do that, but you have to wait 31 days to buy it or something similar to it back. Does not apply for physical commodities. And the most important thing is that possession must change hands, whether it be through storage or shipping it back to us and we back to you, completely legal. It's called the precious metals tax swap.
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Speaker 3Okay. So folks, I'll, I'll remind you this at the, uh, at the end here, but if you want to talk to Andy and his firm about this, uh, just go to thoughtfulmoney.com. Slash gold felt a very short form there. It's basically a contact me form and they'll reach out to you and they'll answer all your questions around this, but super interesting. I'm really glad we, we, we surfaced that Andy. Um, okay. So, um, let's say everything that you think is going to happen sovereign wise with the precious metals happens. So all of a sudden, all of these other countries are using the, the gold backed new version that China and its partners are setting up here. Um, and then the U S likely in response says, okay, well, look, we've, we gotta, we gotta not be left behind, you know, and, and by the way, folks were revealing, we've been buying a lot of gold along the way. So we have a lot more than the 8,000 that everybody thought was on our books and tether, you know, becomes, it becomes clear. That's been a proxy for the government to, you know, accumulate gold and now have a digital way of transacting in it. If all this becomes revealed to the world, what do you think happens to the price of gold? I can't imagine that it would just sort of stay wherever it was the day before. Um, presumably the world would realize it's totally game on for ounces of gold, correct?
Speaker 4Well, who normally positions before the average little guy? Well, that'd be the guys who know where the puck is going, the central banks and the,
Speaker 3the guys who are actually shaping the policy.
Speaker 4Yeah, correct. And gold is the metal of Kings, right? Well, if, if you make mechanisms like the genius act where, where money movement is backed by short-term treasuries, 93 day duration or less, and the interest isn't transferable, and it appears like companies like tether are plowing that into gold, buying more than anyone in the world for the last two years, but the central bank of Poland, um, you would think that higher gold would actually benefit this country and it would also benefit China. And, um, it would benefit I'm having dinner with Tom Luongo tonight. He's down in town and he would say that this is what Tom would say. And I, we just interviewed Susan Collina and she would say the same thing. I believe in that is that Trump and she are in this together, pushing back against the city of London, that they are trying to let the price of gold go straight up to issue in a new monetary system to, to break free from the control. Who would it benefit rising gold that would benefit the Chinese would benefit the United States, the two largest superpowers on the planet, but rising gold would devalue the dollar at some point, instead of by presidential decree, revaluing gold, you let gold just synthetically or organically, even though the mechanism is quite synthetic, the genius act, let go, go higher and higher and higher and higher and higher. You devalue the dollar. You can re industrialize. This is financial repression. You can pay down the debt easier. Your assets start to reflect a greater percentage against your, your liabilities. It would benefit the two superpowers on the planet who are accumulating as fast as they can, quietly to, and lying about it to let gold go higher once this is done. So yes, I think it would ultimately go higher. And then you mark it to market because it's still valued at 42, 22 on the balance sheet. So you mark it at 8,000 or 12,000 or whatever the number is. And all of a sudden, every $4,000 increase in the price of gold gives the treasury general account 1 trillion free and clear. And now you start to see where this could go. So yes, I do think that this is kind of the, the, the pushing the price down to accumulate it before the real thing, before it is set free and real price discovery happens. And I think that is ultimately what the system that has been put in place in China will usher in real price discovery, same day settlement and all of the systems that you see, like in UAE and Singapore are now same day in dollars. What happens first quarter? Will they trade in Yuan also? Will they trade in their currencies also? Same day settlement? I would venture to say probably will.
Speaker 3Okay. So, so I'm not trying to pin you to a number, but it sounds like, you know, if, and when this becomes clear to everybody, a $10,000 gold price doesn't seem too out of the ordinary to you or too out of the realm of possible. Well, not any more
Speaker 4out of the ordinary than about 50,000 when I started in this industry was 2100. So no markets go higher than anyone thinks possible, especially if they're being integrated into the fabric of a new system.
Speaker 3Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let me make a quick analogy and you just tell me if it's, you think it's a good one or not. So right now the world's superpowers are engaged in a race to win the AI battle. Yep. Right. And it's, you know, having enough compute is really key to it. And we're building all these data centers writing the most efficient software is really important to it and that's what china's focusing on right because they don't have yet at least access to the powerful hardware that we do but all of that lies on top of electrons on actually having the the affordable supply of enough electrons to do all the compute and that seems to be the thing right now that that the west is waking up to to say that might be our limiter here um and i've heard some recent alarms being rung recently that um we may actually have a bunch of like data centers and chips that are ready to go but they're collecting dust because there just literally isn't enough power in the grid to power them yet and china is way ahead of us on this and folks have seen me share the chart here china's electrical generation capacity right now is about three times the us and we're scrambling as fast as we can to try to close that gap but basically it's a race for electrons right people have just said okay this is all going to be one at the base level on electrons to me what you're describing this new sort of future monetary and trade version of the world is like that but it's ounces of gold right gold are essentially the electrons that make it all possible and and so there's going to continue to be a building mad scramble if you're right for physical ounces of gold yeah and the way
Speaker 4that the the sophisticated traders are able to do it is by masking this real value by rehypothecated data so they're able to do it in real time and so they're able to do it in real time and they're able to do it in real time and they're able to do it in real time and they're able to do it in real time and they're able to do it in real time and they're able to do it in real time and they're able to do it in real time and they're able to do it in real time and they're able to do it in real The thing of it is with the Shanghai exchange, it is now convertible and compatible with Hong Kong. It's called Yuan convertibility. What it simply means is that anyone can take digital Yuan for whether it be the petro Yuan bond for oil or trading digital Yuan across a bridge that allows you to then settle immediately in gold. It makes countries not really reluctant to hold Yuan when they buy gold with it if they want Yuan convertibility. It's exactly right. And I couldn't agree with you more on the AI build out and the electrical implications that is going to have it. And you're beginning to see it in companies like CoreWeave, these AI data center builders that their bonds are trading at 80 cents on the dollar and stock has lost 60% and their founders have sold billions of dollars in shares. It's coming. The realization that maybe we didn't prepare well enough will be on both sides of what you just explained and on the data center side. There's a lot of. I don't want to call it a resource. It's a asset. But a restructuring is coming called the fourth turning. I know you'd understand the fourth turning. You've interviewed those guys, Neil Howe, I think, and it's like, yeah, I mean, this is the fourth turning in every single way. It's a new system that's coming out of the ashes of the old that doesn't really work for anyone except those in the West.
Speaker 3Okay. So that's a good segue to my next question. And I'm just talking a little faster because I want to cram all these things in before our time's up. Okay. So. So during the election last night, we had a blue wave. I mean, it was a real trouncing of the current Republican establishment. And again, folks, this question is not a partisan question. It's not being asked from a partisan angle, it's just being asked from somebody who is observing hopefully from a 30,000 foot level. So Andy, a number of the candidates on the Democrat side that were elected in are people that are pushing socialist or Democratic socialist policies here, right? And a couple of questions on that, presumably those people would be more likely to want to increase government spending going forward, right? And we've been hearing from all sides, government spending is a big problem here. It's one of the reasons to own precious metals, right, is the more we deficit spend, the more that debt's going to have to be monetized. The Fed and more dollars in circulation, purchasing power of fiat currency goes down. Everybody's doing this in terms of countries. It's not just a US phenomenon. And while I'm making a point that Democratic socialists will be likely to want to spend even more, it's not like the Republicans have been great here. They've been in charge for the past two years and they haven't done anything to reduce fiscal spending. But I guess my question here is. Is the bounce that we're seeing in precious metals since the election results came out last night, do you attribute that to gold maybe smelling out increased fiscal spending from now a Congress that's controlled by Democrats, but also maybe even looking forward to 2028 and saying, okay, this blue wave is maybe increasing the odds that perhaps Democratic socialist candidate might be elected. For president in 2028, and therefore there'll be even more fiscal spending and therefore, you know, run to gold to protect yourself from that.
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Speaker 6conscience we're a choir, but yes,
Speaker 4we have that too. Straightforward coverage. You can literally understand. That's what you get. When you have farmers bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, learn [email protected] underwritten by farmer's truck or fire insurance, exchanges, or affiliate products, not available in every state. Yeah. And, and, you know, why the hell would you want to hold a treasury when you realize that that is ultimately the only path and you move to, to a socialist based economy, what does that do to the productivity of this country, to the infrastructure, to the tax base, um, to the sanity? I mean, I, I, I find it very difficult and, and, you know, by the way, I mean, this is what it's all about. I mean, when everyone says what's different about the United States, that's it. It's the, it's the lack of common shared values anymore. And that is what is different. We don't all share the same values about what made this country amazing. Capitalism is not what destroyed this country. It is, is fiscal irresponsibility to your point. And whether it's, it's red or blue, they all are stupid in the way that they spend money. And it's not capitalism. It's the government spending money and look at, look at the blue States and the way they've spent money. They're, they're worse than the red States, but they're both bad. But yeah, I think there's a realization that, that we can't become United any longer. We are as divided as we've ever been. And that is when, when America has done its best, it's had its back to the wall, but we were all American. We were all pulling the same wagon. And even if we didn't agree on everything, we agreed on what was important. And that was, you know, traditional family values that are out the window, Liberty equal justice under the law. All of these things that we agreed on, you could disagree on everything else, but you agreed on one thing and that was, you know, common values and yeah, it's very frightening to think what will happen. I think the gold definitely has sniffed that out and look, the bottom line is simply this that if gold will be allowed to trade freely, it would be much, much higher. But these knee jerk reactions, I'm never really quite sure what they mean, because they can go up just as fast as they can go down and vice versa. But ultimately, yes, I would think that if that is the case. It is incredibly bullish for the, for the price of gold and horribly bearish for the country ultimately is how I feel. So I'm not being partisan. I'm just trying to be the party of common sense. Speaker 3That's all. Yep. Yep. All right. And again, folks, you know, as you can probably tell here, I'm really trying to, to, to walk the tightrope of, of not trying to be partisan here as well. So let me just connect another dot though. So you mentioned the fourth turning. So one of the things that Neil Howe, you know, one of the co-developers of the fourth turning framework. So one of the co-developers of the fourth turning framework said that that is just, it's a feature. It's emblematic of a fourth turning is that the populace increasingly turns to the government to solve the problems. And like wealth redistribution and increased social spending, again, these are, these are features of a fourth turning. They're what to expect. And perhaps what we saw last night, you know, I haven't talked to Neil yet, but he might say, yeah, not surprised at all. Right. You have people who want more government, more government involvement, more government spending coming in again, to, to solve some of these real issues like affordability. And that's, that that's what happened in the previous fourth turning and I'm not going to put a good or bad in it. And I think, you know, in many ways, there are a lot of people who are hurting. So they say, yeah, you know, while we're hurting, we want the government not to just reward the billionaires and the big companies and all that stuff. We want some of that to go to the little people too. So my point is just, you know, this may just be part of the overall fourth turning script like it or not, you know, don't worry, you know, don't, don't spend your time gnashing your teeth. Just spend your time to your point, Andy, looking where the puck is going and asking, okay, what are the implications of that? And if that means an, an acceleration and the decrease in the growth rate. purchasing power the dollar okay great then i want to be in assets like gold that will preserve their their um their purchasing power versus it um let me connect this to another political question which is okay so and i'm asking you to totally speculate here um so president trump obviously not happy about these results um he is already basically saying look i'm going to veto anything that comes out of congress that i don't like congress is probably going to say especially since they have um you know more seats in the senate than they thought and they have now the senate and the house they're probably going to drum up impeachment or you know other things to try to thwart trump but in a lot of ways we may see trump unleashed in the next two years right where he just says look i don't care right as long as i'm still sitting in this presidential seat i'm going to do everything i can by executive order just going to do everything that i think should be done whether it's popular or not i don't care i'm going to be out of here in two years i'm still going to be a billionaire i'm going to hold court at mar-a-lago i don't really care what anybody thinks about me right the gloves are off so maybe he attacks iran who knows you know more who knows what's going to happen there but maybe to your point andy if if there are plans um to revalue the dollar versus gold or there are plans to you know take tether and and make it into official government instrument or whatever does that maybe get accelerated here you would just say look i was going to try to be more nuanced but screw it i only got two years left nobody likes me i'm just going to do it anyways i
Speaker 4think you would have to i mean i think you have to what you really have to do is you have to take take the blinders off and and show everyone everything and and and be more open about what he's actually trying to do but yeah i would think that is exactly what i would expect to happen um you know i i look at a place like texas and i wonder what's going to happen i i have to research this i don't know if it'll affect it but you know their legal tender aspect of gold and silver could that be changed by the new you know they got a blue attorney general and a blue governor and i mean could that change i don't know um is that at the top of the list of
Speaker 3things they want to roll back i don't know i
Speaker 4don't know i have to look into it but i'm just simply saying that yeah i think he would want to do that as fast as possible um but you know yeah i do i think there's going to be a very interesting two years and if i were him i would i mean all of all of the things that he's wanted to do but hasn't done for whatever political reasons i think now it's time just to take the gloves off and do it and if that means you know lots of indictments be open about it if that means finally showing the epstein files be open about it it's it's like if you want to do these things that you ran on then do it and and maybe you see the left that is so hell-bent on on retribution and on impeachment that they they step on their own foot i don't know but any way you look at it it's not a good thing but you know it's it's it's not unusual either i don't think that any political party has owned the same um retained it for a second you know through the midterms in like 60 years so this happens all the time right but but never quite this divisive for sure so i would if i were him if i believed in it yeah i would say fine it's time to take the gloves off and the blinders off and let people see what i see and let's do it let's do it and i think he has no choice but to do it
Speaker 3okay i'm going to start landing the plane here but before i do um is there anything else that's burning brightly on your radar that i haven't asked you about yet we haven't talked about silver at all really
Speaker 4talk about anything you want um you know i think one of the things that that i'm certainly concerned about as well is the hack with binance um i think that you know this the ai is becoming something that is is very very very concerning they hack a polymark market hack at the the philadelphia 76ers uh giant scoreboard that said you never said the magic word you never and that they tried to reset it same thing the hack of the freezers throughout in the the ai hacking and and what does that mean and can i add one thing to this too yeah so folks
Speaker 3have been hearing me talk over the past week about um how i've fallen down the agentic ai hole yeah you told me that yeah um it's been just totally life-changing um in terms of the the things that i'm having ai do for me now in terms of again not not bringing me answers like a souped-up search engine but actually okay these are tasks i need done ai please go out and do them for me right and um both in work and in personal life it it literally i think to say life-changing is is an accurate term and i am still as i do it like more light bulbs continue to go off of like wow i could actually have it maybe do this too so it's becoming super powerful and and i i can i can totally see now the average person the technology is simple enough that that anybody no background can just talk to it and have it do all the things they wanted to do i can totally see the future now where there's just going to be literally billions trillions of agents going out there and just doing stuff for us all the time and i'm already seeing headlines that banks are having a lot of trouble with this because people's agents are logging into their bank accounts and the banks are having a hard time telling okay which of these are sanctioned agents and which of these could be rogue you know bad actors in the mix right so um in the more that i'm kind of giving ai access to other websites and stuff that i work with because it's got to go out to them and do something for me you know there is a voice in the back of my mind saying man if this agent went rogue it could just nuke everything for me right it could nuke all my youtube videos it could nuke all my social media posts it could nuke you know all these other things that i've got it connected to um and so rogue ai could maybe just empty my bank account right yeah um so it's it's these are just really real concerns and i'll let you continue but but in a world where yeah binance just got hacked right and it wasn't they didn't hack bitcoins they didn't hurt the bitcoin code of the ethereum code but they hacked the digital vault that these things were stored in and were able to steal the coins right so i think it just i mean again i get the promise of crypto and in many ways it's very elegantly designed for people with our market but things like all the things you're listing i think do make people on on the margin less comfortable and confident in owning those things which again raises the question well then what do you own and going back to something that's tangible and physical has a lot of appeal
Speaker 4yeah i mean and what you what you just said kind of is what happened to polymarket which is a massive high-tech company too they found that there was malicious code designed to access logged-in sessions through a third-party outside service used by polymarket's website and this code was to design to sell users positions like you said and transfer their assets away just like that now they said it was only three four five million dollars they'll give it back but you know this was six billion with binance in a matter of 60 seconds i find it to be very scary when you put into the mix every single country in the european union has sent out letters to people saying you need to prepare you need to have food and water and you know up to several million dollars you need to have to prepare you need to have food and water and you know up to several million dollars you need to have days worth you got the the deal here with the defense department every military base has to have 90 days of prep including i didn't even know this was a thing portable nuclear power generators 90 days but we're only told to for a few days dan bongino i was watching an interview with him he said you know i i wasn't in the military but it was in the secret service and in the military you can't panic and the secret service if you panic you're never coming on assignment again you're done right he says i don't panic but you know what having being prepared for 30 days worth of food and water and this and that will help you from not panicking there's this huge like we told you so kind of thing about being prepared right now which makes me kind of concerned and if i had to guess you will see some sort of a big hack into a system now here's where the conspiratorial side of me starts to think well you wanted to push everyone into the bond market to um to uh uh bring down your bring down yields well wouldn't take much but to scare the heck out of people through some sort of a major hacking into some major let me let me just humor him for one second i've read this to you before but i want people to um come on darn it give me one second uh this is when i asked adam glupinski the head of the polish central bank who's bought more gold than anyone in the world for the last two years why you guys buying gold he says and i quote in these difficult times of global turmoil and the search for a new financial order whatever that means a new financial order gold is the only safe investment for state reserves and gold will retain its value here it comes even when someone cuts off the power to the global financial system destroying traditional assets based on electronic accounting records now we don't think this is going to happen but as the saying goes forewarned is for um central banks are required to be prepared no matter what so could it happen sure you see one big hack and and they keep telling us be prepared be prepared you're seeing hacking everywhere how fast would would you see people fly into the bond market i think you know i have a hard i hate that my mind goes that way but that to me is the one thing we should think about. We've become incredibly digital and AI is growing faster than the IT sophistication. JP Morgan two years ago was paying $1 billion a year for IT security. $1 billion. What does that do for every other company or bank or brokerage or anything that isn't that wealthy and sophisticated? It's going to be a nightmare, I think, before it's all said and done.
Speaker 3All right. Well, folks, we're kind of talking here now about sort of the Armageddon insurance role that gold can play.
Speaker 4And I don't want to be doom and gloom, but there's realism and pessimism. They're right there, realism and pessimism.
Speaker 3Yeah. I think the key takeaway here is we just spent beyond the past couple of minutes, the hour before, talking about all the reasons why monetarily, given what's happening in the monetary system and trade, that gold should have good tail winds ahead of it. It also does have this sort of, hey, in really bad times, everybody turns to it. And I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. And so it's got that optionality. Let's hope we never need to use it. But to Andy's point, I think having at least a little bit of physical somewhere where you can get to it in a crisis, power grid down, whatever, one makes sense and B, it'll just help you sleep well at night. You don't need to have a ton. You can keep the rest stored in a vault, like with the bolting services that Andy and his team use. And again, we're not trying to scare anybody, but it's a good thing. It does have this additional bad times optionality value in it as well. All right. Well, Andy, look, thank you for coming on and doing this. Again, thank you for soldiering through the tech issues. One, you have been offering special offers to this audience ever since we started this partnership. Again, thank you. I've only heard very great things about that from the people that have taken you up on it, as well as the phenomenal customer service of your team. What are you able to offer folks these days?
Speaker 1Switch to Shopify. So, I mean, I'd
Speaker 4like to offer other things, but I have a hard time moving past the pre-65 silver. What did I, did I tell you? I know I said something below spot. What did I tell you below spot?
Speaker 3Yeah, here, let me, let me pull it up here.
Speaker 4I'm sorry, because I know I did this special for you. It's higher than what we're selling it for. But below spot on pre-65 silver is. Is, in my career, you don't see that. You just don't. And it's an anomaly. And I think you take advantage of price anomalies.
Speaker 3Okay. So, what you texted me, and we'll confirm whether this is indeed what you're able to do.
Speaker 4Whatever I texted you, I've already taken care of.
Speaker 3Okay. So, it was, it was 25 cents under spot for, for the pre-1965 dimes and quarters.
Speaker 4And I have almost a hundred thousand dollars face value in stock. So, that's a lot. That's a hundred times 715. So, ounces. So, I have a lot in stock. Anyways, bottom line is there's no better value. You're, you're getting it below its melt value. And during the pandemic for four straight years, I would have paid you nine to $10 over spot to buy back as much of it as you would send to me. That was an anomaly. This is an anomaly. And it doesn't take but just a little bit of. Some form of an awakening by the mainstream to realize that, my gosh, I need to get something. And just like that, the availability dries up quickly. So, there isn't a better value. Okay. I will always, your people will always get our best pricing. And that's why it's important to call and talk to someone and let them know they came from you or through that form so that they are given the very best service, the very best pricing and, and, and attention to detail.
Speaker 3Okay. And folks, I just realized I gave the wrong URL earlier. I just, just fixed it here. It's ThoughtfulMoney.com/buygold. So, whether you want to take Andy up on this pre-1965 dimes and quarters offer, whether you want to talk about gold, whether you want to talk about anything else in precious metals related questions you have, just go to that URL right there. I'll put it in the live chat as well. It'll be in the description below this video, if you're watching the replay and just fill out the very short form and Andy and his team will be in touch with you right away. And they will send it to you. We'll, like I said, they'll, they'll give you a white glove service and handle any and all questions that you have there. All right, Andy. Let's see, additionally here, and just wrapping up, one of the reasons why you have been able to offer such an attractive discount on the junk silver, and again, folks, junk silver is pre-1965 US coins, is that the refiners got really backed up, right? So, A, where is that? Is that normalizing? And B, where are premiums right now? They were pretty high in this space. I'm assuming they've come down as the price has drifted down.
Speaker 4I'm glad you asked that question because this is how the big money has been able to quietly reposition also. What happened in January and this entire tenuous year has been so counterintuitive, the price action to what's happening. And I think that you had a lot of people just bail. The reason I bought everything for the last year that I could find in pre-1965 silver, because I can hedge the metal content, if I can hedge it and I'm getting it below melt value, what is my risk? Zero, right? So, I don't have risk in holding it, it's just the cost of capital, but I bought as much as I could because I knew that anomalies always work themselves out, as this one will, too. Premiums on the American coins, like the Eagles, are starting to drop. They're starting to climb higher again, all of a sudden, just like that. Interesting. And they always lead the way. They've gone up considerably, what I consider considerably, in a week. And so, at the same time, the premiums across the board, in my mind, are far too soft to where they should be. And it's just been because the retail market has been more or less either you get it, and you've been doubling down what you've been buying, or you don't, and you're not buying any at all. And so, although business, in terms of what it used to be prior to 2020, would be considered fantastic, it's nowhere near what it was the last four years, in terms of the average person. That will change. People are very fickle, and they focus too much on the minute-by-minute-by-minute instead of seeing the big picture. Those people will see the big picture, and when they do, it changes just like that. So, look, I've done this for 37 years. This is February. And I've seen premiums or retail prices on junk, silver, dimes, and quarters below spot, maybe 1% of the time. It's an anomaly. It's a hell of a value. So, I bought everything I could, knowing I could hedge it. You will see premiums climb. Right now, they're still pretty cheap, except they're beginning to move on American-made products. -
Speaker 3Okay. So, you're starting to perhaps see the trend in premiums start to reverse, and again, our earlier discussion about dollars, dollar-cost averaging. Those who've been dollar-cost averaging this year have been doing pretty well then, correct? Because they've been getting lower and lower prices as entry points, but they've also been getting not just a lower spot price, but a lower premium as well, right? -
Speaker 4Yeah, and those people are rare, because what I've learned in all this time is that everyone wants a lower price until they get one, and then they don't buy. -
Speaker 3Right, which is the craziest thing ever, right? If you think it's on sale, buy it low, don't wait until it's chasing you. - Ask Rick Rule how he became successful.
Speaker 4I've had lots of talks. Talks over a cocktail with Rick on this one. Ask him how he became successful, and he will tell you the biggest deals he ever did, he bought because he knew it in his heart, mathematically, logically, economically, geologically, that it was going to go. And the biggest one he ever did, I don't remember the name of it, he went all in and the price fell by 50%, and then instead of selling it, he doubled down even more, and he became a gazillionaire. Now, that's kind of hyperbole, but my point is it's true, and he'll tell you that, and that is how you become successful in investing. You buy when everyone else is running. You don't buy when everyone else isn't, but who's been doing this before everyone else runs? The most knowledgeable traders in the world who have the information. Before they have all this money, they also got the information, the central banks and whoever's doing it here on COMEX. That's all I focus on, and the price, yeah, bums me out. It's annoying. I hold hands. I talk to people all day and console them and see the big picture. It gets tiring. It's annoying. And I'm out here, you know, the first comment on your thing. He's been wrong. I have been price until now. i'm not haven't been on a big picture but if you look at last few months sure price has gone down fundamentals what has changed other than the price nothing fundamentals are getting worse so yeah i think i just think that that let's just see how this all finishes out i guess is what i'm trying to say because the biggest money in the world is telling you where it's going um trust your gut all right all
Speaker 3right well andy again can't thank you enough um everybody else um if you uh have not already uh talked to andy and his team and would like to um again just go to thoughtfulmoney.com buy gold and uh andy we'll do this again in a couple weeks thanks adam i look
Speaker 4forward to it man you're the class of the industry and uh thank you for having me thank you everyone i look forward to picking up where we left off hope to talk to you all again soon all right
Speaker 3brother thanks so much everybody else thanks so much for watching at farmers we go out of our way to keep you in the know like by singing everything for emphasis that and by providing you with coverage on a page and easy to understand language so you know what's covered and what's not no
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