Is "Sex and the City" Canceled by Gen-Z?

(upbeat music) - Hello, and welcome to another episode of "Based News Network". My name is Sophie, aka Joan of Arc, and I'm here with someone who's in time out right now. Punk Revolutiono, aka Kio, say hello, Kio. - Hi, Sophie. - I had to take away his Instagram. It's a long story. Anyway, how's it going, Kio? - I'm good. I'm good. How are you? - I'm good. We got a variety of topics today, just to get it out of the way though. We are making an official "Based News Network" like "Knowledgement of the Death of O.J. Simpson". O.J. Simpson. - O.J. Simpson died. - Rest in orange juice. - Yeah, rest in O.J., rest in hell, I guess. - Yeah, he definitely did it. Sorry, guys, he did it. No doubt in my mind, he did it. Yeah, but ripped O.J. I guess. - Good times. I see a white Bronco speeding towards heaven. Just kidding. Anyway, yeah, we just had to say that. - We're not gonna talk about that. - We're not gonna talk about it, 'cause it's, yeah. - There's literally nothing else to say about that. - There's really nothing else to say. - But I will say it is funny. - It's a little funny. - His name is orange juice. - Oh, that's not what I was thinking, but it is a little funny. That's why they called him the juice. - That's how I found out about O.J. Simpson, when I was a kid, was there was another kid. I was like in elementary school. And like another kid made like an O.J. joke about orange juice. And I didn't get it. And I don't know. At the time I felt dumb for not understanding that joke, but in retrospect, there's no reason for an elementary school or not living in the '90s to understand an O.J. Simpson reference. - Hi, when did the O.J. thing happen? Were you alive? - I don't know. It happened in the '90s. - Yeah, so you might have been alive. We don't know. - We don't know. - We clearly didn't do our research here. We're not here to talk about O.J. - We're not gonna do it. - We're not today. - We've got bigger fish to fry. - All right, so if any of you guys are on Twitter or X, you've probably seen the discourse. Or in general, you've probably seen a lot of tweets going around about Sex in the City. That's because Sex in the City officially made it to Netflix last week. And of course, I don't know about Yukio, but my feed has been all about Sex in the City. I've been seeing screen caps and different clips and stuff like that. And it's entering the Zoomer sphere, so to speak. Well, that's kind of the thing is like people saying like, oh my god, Gen Z, the Zoomers are finding Sex in the City. Uh-oh, what drama will ensue here? And the thing is like, it's been on HBO Max or Max for a long time. And Netflix is definitely something more accessible, like I think more people have Netflix, so it makes sense that more people would be encountering it. But it's not like Sex in the City was completely unavailable to Zoomers across the board. But I've clearly seen an uptake in Sex in the City related content, especially on X. I, you know what, Sophie? I, I haven't. Like, I believe you. I completely, everything you're saying is true. It's just, I think it's just interesting how this happens every once in a while, where just because you, our algorithms are so different that we both see very different things based off. Different thingies. Yeah. Again, like I mostly follow women. And naturally, I think women would be more inclined to be watching Sex in the City. So Kaya, you haven't seen, you've seen a little bit, right? Smex, Smex in the City. I have seen, well, I know the characters. I've seen like, I've seen like parts of episodes here and there, like back when it was actually, you know, like on television. And sometimes you just would flip through the channels and see things and watch five minutes of things. So I know the characters. I get the gist of each of the characters. I get the gist of the show. Which character are you? Who is the coolest character to be? That's a, that's a Samantha. That's a long, you are an, I don't think you're Samantha. Am I a Miranda? No. Am I a Carrie? I might be, right? Maybe a Carrie, you might be a Carrie. I don't think you're a Carrie, though. I think we're both, I think we're both charlots. Let me see if Charlotte is. I think we'll hear you. She's the brunette, she's the brunette. All right, I'm gonna, actually, you know what? Let me just, I'm gonna real quick. Well, you keep talking. I'm gonna really quick, quickly take a sex in the city. Oh, take a Buzzfeed quiz. Oh my God. Wait, that's such a good idea. Okay. Should I take one too? Sure. All right, guys, we're gonna take a sex in the city. Which character are you quiz, right now? But we gotta be quick because the audience is waiting. All right, so wait, can, can you multitask? Wait. Yeah, we don't have to do, we don't have to do this. I thought it'd be funny like for them to like hear us do it, maybe if something. Okay, fine, all right. We don't have to. No, no, no, no, all right, how about I'll, okay, I'll take it first and you talk about the news. And then when I'm done, I'll start talking about the news and then you could take it. All right, all right, that sounds great. So in the midst of sex in the city exploding online, following its arrival on Netflix, an article came out from the independent of all places. And it was written by Zoomer, a 22 year old. It's called, "I'm Gen Z watching sex in the city for the first time. It's not just outdated, it's cringy." So already, you know, already off to a good start. To me, this feels like rage bait. I almost feel bad for the writer of this because I feel like the independent knew this was just gonna be rage bait and they like set up this young writer for harassment. Even though like this young writer probably believes what, you know, she wrote, I do think like the independent knew what they were doing. Anyway, here we are talking about it though and a lot of people had things to say about it. And as a Zoomer, I'd like to add my two cents. So I'm just gonna read a little bit from this article so that you guys can better understand what she's saying. I'm not gonna say her name because I don't wanna like drive anymore harassment to her, but you can find the article pretty easily. Basically, she's also a writer living New York, like Carrie Bradshaw and people are saying, like, oh, you're in your Carrie Bradshaw era and she's like, I didn't get it. So I had to watch Sex in the City and she basically brings up various problematic moments from the show and it definitely has a lot of that. She mentions some, she mentions here. First of all, I live in South Brooklyn a 50 minute commute from the office not in a Carrie approved Upper East Side brownstone. I'm not constantly brunching or dining or sipping cosmos at the bar with my friends who can afford to eat out that often. As far as dating goes, I often hear about my friends' dating woes, so I guess we do have that in common, but they rarely relate to such a constantly changing cast of partners as the Sex in the City women. So my first reaction to this is like, I absolutely like get what you're saying here. Like I get what she's saying here and of course like my problem with this argument at first is like, I feel like Sex in the City is supposed to have a little bit of fantasy to it. Like there's supposed to be like this fantasy in a lure of being like a girl in your, like a woman in your 30s in Manhattan dining with friends and like going on sex skippades. Like I feel like it's already inherently unrealistic. And part of the fun of watching the Sexes in the City is that you fantasize about going on sex skippades? - No, I don't, I don't, but I think like, that is like, it's not like a sexual fantasy. I just mean like it's supposed to be like, kind of ideal and like whimsical and fun. And it's not a real, it's not a like accurate representation of reality for, you know what I mean? Like I think it's fun to like, just like immerse yourself in their world, even though it's unrealistic. - So going on sex skippades is just ideal. - No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying like, it's like this single girl in her 30s in New York. Like it's like this idealized fantasy for some people. It's it's not like realistic for everyone, but it's kind of fun to imagine. I support it. I support it Did you take the test? What'd you get? Okay, so I took the test and So this was the BuzzFeed test and I got Samantha Really, but okay, but to be entirely clear the questions were like Choose your favorite time of day Which pick the mining date. That's like Cambridge Analytica. Yeah, it's like choose which the prettiest part of your body your eyes your face You know what I mean? It's just like these are questions that don't actually have anything to do with personality and it's sort of just like so from this quit. It's like it's like Choose your first place. You want to go on a first date like the I'm it the questions You know basically I feel like the the quiz is a little bit Random in a way, you know what I mean? Like I don't feel like it's a very scientific quiz Well, it is from BuzzFeed But everyone knows that you have to take the BuzzFeed test. It's always the the best one to do Anyways, okay, I honestly don't see I mean, maybe you have the confidence of Samantha sometimes, but I don't think you're as promiscuous and afraid of commitment as she Because you're in a monogamous relationship with me. I'm loyal. I'm loyal to But Samantha is the best character though probably Samantha and Charlotte are my favorite characters I'm like if Samantha Met someone Who is awesome and then started a serious relationship. Thank you, Kaya. Thank you. That's right. So I but I did a quick Google so Charlotte I don't know if I'm a Charlotte. I feel like Charlotte's a little bit too. She's yeah, you're not like Okay, but who's the other one? Who's the main character again? Carrie Bradshaw? Yeah, Carrie personality. Carrie. She's like, I don't think you're her but Carrie is makes a lot of bad decision. She's kind of impulsive and She basically just stays in toxic relationships and she thinks she can fix Mr. Begg and she never can and She's smart. She's a writer. There's like I feel like I can see that in you like she's she's smart she's cool and interesting and Yeah, but she was really into fashion So why am I not a Miranda then I Guess they're you know, maybe you are Miranda. She's a lawyer She's got short hair, which means she's a guy. She's punk. She's a little punk. She's she's bisexual. Not in the first season I mean, I mean not in the first series and the spin-off when they're all 50 she is, but that's a story for another day She's just like okay, so you're Miranda. I Don't want to be compared to Miranda. I don't Miranda's a little annoying, but in like an endearing way Maybe I am Miranda, but I don't think I'm like that annoying. Hopefully I feel like I relate the most to Charlotte But I'm not as like prudish as she I Don't know. I guess the problem here what we're understanding now is it's really hard to like You can't just say oh, I'm exactly like this one character and there's like four main characters You know, I mean like it's just not realistic wait, can I excuse them real quick? Yeah, so I don't obviously I have the least amount of experience watching this show But I will say one thing that was out of all the things that were wrong with this article Yes, it's rage bait, etc one thing that I did find was Compelling was she was saying that she didn't love the show because she didn't really like any of the characters and I like I said I don't have an opinion, but I think that's a like a valid reason to not like a show and given that Carey sounds like kind of annoying Miranda sounds kind of annoying Charlotte sounds a little prudish and Samantha sounds a little bit like Charlotte and Charlotte is the goat and so is Charlotte and She's a little prudish, but she also has like she has standards and she's like a smart She works in an art art gallery. She's smart and she's a little bit like Old-fashioned, but in an endearing way So you just so you'd like Samantha then I'm talking about Charlotte, but I do like Samantha, too Samantha and Charlotte are like the opposite Samantha is super sexually confident. She's always like sleeping with guys She can't be tied down and then Charlotte's kind of like traditional like she wants to get married She wants to have a baby She is smart, but she has standards. She's she can be a little caddy, which I like, you know Like she's not like completely conservative or like like boring just because she's a little bit hesitant Like she's a multi-faceted person. I really that's I kind of relate to her and not because I'm a prude, but You know, I'm like I feel like She's I relate to her like she's a little weird. She's like a little I Don't know like I don't know how to describe her. I just feel like I know her like I feel her in my soul Hmm. Okay, so back so back to this article So yes, I might say more things about it Like because there's got yeah, oh well actually no you mentioned that she didn't like any of the characters really and You know, that's something I can't understand, but I don't know like she it seems like she only really watched like a little bit of it Although she didn't like cite some later episodes and later seasons, so maybe she did watch quite a bit about quite a bit of it But I do think the characters are likable in their way. Carrie doesn't know me a lot But I do think like Charlotte and Samantha are characters that you can really feel for and care about I Just don't I just don't think that Miranda Miranda Miranda is fine I like Miranda actually because I do like Miranda and she is endearing in her way, but she is like a little bit judgmental I do think they all have endearing qualities and I do not think they're as unlikeable as the characters from girls Now I would be interested to see like what this author thinks of girls because girls has been described as like the millennial Brooklyn version of sex in the city and The characters are even more unlikeable if you thought Carrie Bradshaw is in likable You got to see Hannah Horvath or Marnie like The characters are in likable, but that's kind of why girls is so fascinating I just I don't think like finding the characters on likable is a definitely a valid reason to not like a show but It's also part of the fun and I don't think like for me personally I wouldn't write it off and I don't think the characters are unlikable and completely in sex in the city I Believe you on this I trust you on this because there's plenty of shows where the characters are complex likable and unlikeable at the same time and I haven't watched enough of sex in the city so I'm gonna trust you over The author of this article Well, yeah, she mentioned some scenes that are like problematic in hindsight, you know and I I can understand like why that would make someone uncomfortable and like when I was watching them recently I was like, oh, this is really cringe, you know, like there's some really cringe like outdated scenes I don't think the bisexual critique like the show does it the show kind of Treats bisexualities like just a phase or like being greedy like all those negative stereotypes about being bisexual and I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm bisexual, but it really just doesn't offend me Like I I almost find like bisexual jokes funny, but maybe that's because I'm bisexual, you know what I mean? I you know, I'm glad you say it said it because reading this article the specific critiques like against the biphobia in the show didn't seem that Serious to me like making a joke about The boy the bisexual boyfriend being greedy like that's that's obviously it's outdated, but it's it's a little bit like hearted I mean, I haven't watched the episode. Yeah, that's the thing is like some I agree like the way that Samantha talks to the trans women in that one episode is really bad It's really bad, and there's there's like definitely a lot of really bad like Oh, that's awful scenes, you know sprinkled in the show but I don't think I don't know I think people should be able to watch pieces of media and think critically about it and I Don't know there are definitely some scenes in sex in the city that are really bad I'm not gonna lie like she is right for that some of them are really awful, but Some of the scenes are like endearingly outdated, and I'm not talking about the like transgender And like racist scenes like I'm more talking about like this bisexual thing or like I don't know They make lighthearted jokes that seem a more offensive now, but I don't know Maybe it's because I'm interested in history, and I like to like see things as they were in a certain period I guess I don't know of course. I mean we're watching Mad Ben right now You know, and it's like in the 60s and there's plenty of Racism and misogyny, but we understand where you know, it doesn't mean that the creators of Mad Men, or that Mad Men as a show is bad, because it's an honest depiction of how things were in the 60s. Yeah, and I mean this is a little different because it's being made at the time that it's taking place. So the show does reflect like the kind of humor, maybe, or the point of view of some people during this time. No, no, no, no, no. The show is depicting the sense of humor and point of view of people who are progressive at the time. That's true. This show is very progressive. For the time, this was actually the progressive point of view on trans people and bisexuals. And obviously, these are extremely reactionary and toxic and transphobic ideas and things they're saying, but at the time, it's just a reflection of how far we've come in 2024 compared to 2000. At the time, the two points of views on bisexuals were either one, they're actually gay and they're just still figuring that out, which was the progressive point of view. Or you believed that bisexuals were disgusting perverts, which was the conservative point of view. But the stuff they're showing and even though it's bifobic, it's just, it's kind of like, yes, it was made at the same time, but same with movies made in the '50s or '60s or '70s or '80s. Or literally, probably right now, there's movies being made and shows that are being made that probably 20 years from now we're going to realize was kind of this way or that way. But it's just how it was. And I just want to note that the main producer, like showrunner of the show, is it a gay man? And so I do think a lot of the gay jokes and jokes about that are coming from that point of view. So I mean, I do think that there's a lot of tongue and cheekness to the show. And I don't know, I don't know if that completely writes it off. That being said, that one particular scene that she cites of the black trans woman is one of, it's extremely hard to watch, just based on how offensive and cringe it is. So yes, there are some episodes that are really bad, I will not lie. But I don't know. I think all in all, it's a fascinating show to watch just to see like, okay, how are young women living in the 2000s in Manhattan? I don't know. It's just fascinating to me. So I don't, I don't think it's like good to completely write it off. But I also feel a little bad for this author because I know she's getting a lot of hate. And I don't know, it's, it's not an article I completely agree with. But I don't know. I just, I just feel like the independent was setting her up for like, anti-Zoom or rage bait. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I really feel like there's so much online content now based on getting different generations to resent each other with like, it definitely started with millennials with millennials versus boomers, you know, boomers, you know, are the reason everything sucks now according to a million articles, Gen Z sucks, millennials suck for all these different reasons. And like, obviously each of these pieces, these articles and stuff have like a kernel of truth to them, but it's, it's, it's, I think it's a bit overdone and obviously it's done because it's, it's rage bait and and, and it's, you know, I don't really know. I don't really know how I feel about it. I don't know how I feel about it because I guess maybe I also, I also have bought into a lot of resentment towards like older generations for putting various like conservative policies in place. But I don't know, my point of view is kind of changed a bit on that because there's also been a lot of progressive boomers that have like fought to improve things a lot too. So I don't really know if it's like really a very meaningful way of like dividing society into different generations and then like, and then like each generation like hates the other generations for various reasons. Like I think it's a little bit overdone. Yeah, like I feel like the goal with publishing this piece was like, oh, we're gonna get a ton of like really angry millennials like and Gen Xers like quote tweeting being like, this you suck, like Gen Z is so like, whoa, go really well. You know, like it's, it just, it feels meaningless and again, big supporter of opinion journalism op-eds, agree with the author on a few points, but I mostly just, I don't know, I like Sex and City. I think overall I enjoy watching him and I almost just like, I feel like she, this author needs to go watch girls because if this is bad, I feel like that will be something. True that. And I think beyond that, I really like what you said and I think this is kind of how I try to think about these sort of different things too to an extent is, it is a document of history. It is a, it does capture, I'm up here is about these things like I really, that or not, I do want to like see how people were thinking about things at a certain time. Yeah, yeah, and the exactly, there's, you know, there's different ways, you know, you could look at it in a light of like, man, the, the sex in the city creators were bad people because they, they put, you know, really offensive stuff in it, that's one way of looking at it and that might be like true or you can think of like, oh, this is like a product of society at the time. And this is a reflection of society at the time. And this was actually, this show is actually considered very progressive at the time. Because of its like, you know, sex, like showing promiscuous women in a light that's not shaming or whatever, and showing bisexuality in a light that's not, you know, making them out to be people going straight to hell or whatever, like it was progressive at the time. It's, you know, it's really, there's different ways you can analyze it as long as I'm trying to say. And I think it's, it's not worth throwing it out, you know, you can, I don't know, look, I haven't watched it. Maybe it sucks, but that's just my point of view from it's got it, it's got it's good, good and bad thing points, you know, my, my, my main enjoyment out of it is just like a mat, like watching it and imagining I was like living in their like bubble. Because again, like you can tell, like these women are, like kind of what the author said, like these women are extremely privileged. They're all like white, really privileged, rich, they're like not rich, but they're kind of rich women. And as unrealistic as it is for a lot of people, it is like kind of fun, frustrating and fun to just like imagine what this would be like, you know, I don't know, I find it interesting. I thought it was interesting. Also like having lived in New York for periods of time, like I am, it's like cool to see the city and I guess like what it was like in the 90s and early 2000s and so. Yeah. It is interesting. It is interesting, you know, I, you know, I'm thinking back to when I was younger, I don't know, it's really hard for me to have a proper gauge on these things, but you know, when I was younger, thinking back in like 2005, so I was like, almost 10. And like when it came to the topic of trans people, that there was just, it was literally, there was like no, there was, it was just awful. There was no sense of empathy or understanding or whatever. It was completely just completely talked about the same way probably it's reflected in just in this show. So and I'm not saying that makes it okay how it's in the show blah, blah, blah, but I do think it's it's and I haven't seen the, I haven't seen the particular scene that you're talking about. That's obviously. It's bad. I don't think it's even like consider progressive, like I can't even call it progressive, like it's just really bad. No, I wouldn't call it progressive, but I would just, I would say that was like, if you, if you watch it, like I bet you anything, like that really was the, the status quo thinking of like how to understand trans people at that time. Yeah, it's bad guys, it's, it's about, it's, it's definitely like, I remember watching that episode and just being like, holy shit, like this is really bad. Yeah. So I guess, you know, I'm very thankful, I'm very thankful that But that is not the mainstream understanding of trans people anymore. Or actually, it's kind of hard to say, I'm glad that there's a significant part of society that has improved on this topic at least. I don't know. It's hard to say because I'm not trans, and I haven't watched the episode, but I do have lots of memories. I mean, I can think back to 2005, 2006, 2007, and just hearing all over the TV media everywhere, terrible, all over, so, and I'm not saying that to be depressing. I'm trying to say that as it actually is like, it's good, there's been progress in my opinion. Yeah, things have come a long, long way since this show. I just took the test, by the way, on BuzzFeed, and this is one of the worst BuzzFeed tests I've ever taken, and that says a lot. Also, I got Charlotte, and I agree with this. What? Okay, so that's crazy, though. How did that work? What do you mean? Because it was a terrible test, but it got the answer correct, though. Well, I just mean like the questions are really bad. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, the questions are terrible. It's like, these questions don't have anything to do with our person. Maybe I just got the answer I wanted, so I'm happy. But I got Samantha, and I'm a Samantha. This is what it's said. You definitely have some carry-like tendencies. I agree, because I like to write, and I like fashion, and I like adventures. But at the end of the day, you are truly a deep romantic. You're a total Charlotte. Try not to take life too seriously, and let loose once in a while. I feel like that's me. I take things too seriously sometimes. That does sound like you. Anyways, I think we've said enough. You're not evil for not liking it, and you're not evil for finding things wrong with it at all. But I do think it's an interesting reflection of that pop culture. All right, moving on. Bjork. Have you heard of her? Yes, I think I've heard. Bjork is playing a show under a bridge, the bridge connecting Brooklyn and Queens, and is apparently charging $100 per ticket to go under a bridge and listen to her DJ. And some people have issue with this. Can I just intervene real quick? The bridge is the Coscusco bridge. Yes. Okay. Keep going. I forgot the name of the bridge, but it does connect Brooklyn and Queens. I, if I remember correctly, any who, it sounds like a fun time. It is on your birthday May 10th, Cairo, and you will not, you will be visiting me here. So we can't go to it. But yeah, a lot of people are like, oh, this is overpriced for what it is. And I don't know, I hear you, but at the same time, it's like Bjork DJing under a bridge is like pretty crazy. Like, that's kind of like a once in a lifetime vibe. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's New York City. You got, I mean, the New York City is full of people who are one hipsters, two massive Bjork fans, three love DJs, and four rich. That is, that's, that's, that's Bjork City. It's like the richest city in America and the most hipster city in the universe. So Portland wishes. Portland wishes. I'm sorry. Portland. Who will talk about Portland another time? I've never been. I have. Is it good? I like Portland. It's definitely got its issues though, for sure. Okay. So New York, anyways, so I think it makes perfect sense it's going to be $100 because like, you know, you make it, well, that's a Bjork like, it's not like Bjork is like some, I feel like people treat Bjork like she's this up and coming artist because like, I don't know, I feel like during like COVID, like a bunch of people, like, can't, like, just enter their teens and like discovered Bjork for the first time and then like, I don't know, like, I feel like, I don't know, like Bjork is like an icon, like, she's been around for decades. She's not like, I don't know, like, she's a big deal, you know, like, she's a really, really important musician, like, she's one of the best musicians ever, in my opinion. Like, she's my, she's probably my favorite musician if I had to pick one or in my top, top three, honestly. Oh, you got my huge Bjork fan. You are absolutely, I'm paying $100 to see, like, an iconic legendary artist is very much a normal price, especially when it's a rare event. So. I agree. I mean, I've heard reviews of Bjork's DJing, like, it's that it's not that good, but like, I feel like you're also just paying to see Bjork in real life and Bjork is kind of insane. Yeah. Well, that's actually a good point that DJs, when artists do DJ sets, it's a totally different thing than when they do an actual performance. Yeah. Like, it's probably not like the performance and questions probably mid, but you're paying to see Bjork. You're paying for the vibe of being under a bridge and seeing Bjork. You're paying to be able to tweet that you saw Bjork under a bridge, you know what I mean? And in general, I do think like concert tickets should be more like accessible to people. Like, that's a lot of money. And yeah, but I don't know, like, I think seeing Bjork is a big deal. So I guess like, to me, she's on the caliber of, like, legend, legends of like, she's definitely not as famous as Madonna, but like, to me, she's like a Madonna or a share or a Mariah Carey, you know what I mean? Absolutely. And, um, you know, in terms of, like, she, Tori Amos, you know, I mean on top of, I mean, in terms of influence that she's had on like, art pop, then yeah, she's definitely, she's definitely like, like a cornerstone of art pop. She is like, she and Kate Bush, like, are some of the most important, like, musicians to me. Like, I can't even say this enough, like, they're both so important to art pop. Bjork is insanely talented. Like it's not just like sheep is producing a lot of her music. Her voice is insane, like, her, she's so creative, she's, yeah. So one thing I don't really understand here is, okay, so the Coscusco Bridge, um, obvi, like, so Romy, my cat, is that where Romy's from? Romy, yes. Romy was rescued from under the Coscusco Bridge. Oh my God, Kaya, you need to make a meme about that, how like, my cat was, my cat was rescued from the bridge Bjork's playing her concerto or show up. Well, that definitely makes me want to go more to the show. Well, you can't go because I'm not going, obviously not going. But what I was going to say is like, one thing I don't understand is like, I've never been under the Coscusco Bridge because my understanding is it's just like, I mean, I always visualize there's just water under it because it's a bridge, but clearly there's some portion of the bridge that's like, I must be near the, it must be near like the coast or something, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, probably something because I remember when I, first off, this article says that under the Coscusco Bridge is like a very industrial area. And then also when I, when I adopted Romy, the person, the person who rescued Romy told me that she was rescued from a construction site under the Coscusco Bridge. So obviously there's some, I'm like intrigued, like I want to go to the under the Coscusco Bridge because it sounds like very industrial construction site location that I, yeah. And speaking of Sex and the City, going to see Bjork under the Coscusco, is that I say that right? Yes. The bridge, like going, going to see Bjork, like a rant, like a hipster DJ set under, like bridge connecting Brooklyn and Queens sounds like an episode of Sex and the City to me, even though they don't go to Queens or Brooklyn that often, but like, like Sex and the City, what I like about it a lot is they go, they basically go out every day and they always go to like weird clubs and weird concerts and like parties and stuff like that. And it just, it feels very New York and like I can definitely like see them doing this. I could see the girls and girls going to it too. Like they go to like warehouse bushwick parties and stuff like that. So I don't know. Like what I'm trying to say is it sounds like a really interesting experience in an ideal world. I would love for it to be cheaper, but honestly, I think it's worth it. Even if the performance isn't that cool, like it's just, it's just the like being able to say you did it and like experiencing it. And you know what's also interesting too is Costco bridge, like part of it is in Green Point, Green Point, Brooklyn and then it goes into Queens on the other end. And Green Point is a pretty beautiful, rich, nice area of Brooklyn. So, I should just go over there. I'm just gonna, maybe I'll just go over there today. Why not? I'll just take the train over there. - Yeah, Green Point is really pretty area. - 'Cause I'm just thinking like, what's going on? This sounds so cool. I'm just like, I'm visually-- - Yeah, maybe you can go on a little walk over there and pay pilgrimage to Romeo's birthplace that be safe. - Okay, well, it's just 'cause I'm thinking like, if there's this industrial zone with constructions and abandoned cats and-- - Sounds like you're kind of a place. - And it also, well, I'd be kind of walking through like, beautiful Green Point and then all of a sudden I'm in like, I don't know, some cyberpunk bridge area. It's probably not as cool as I'm thinking in my head, but-- - I'm sure they'll make it really cool with lighting and stuff and, I mean, I'm excited to see any videos that come out of it. - I'm currently looking at pictures of the under the Costco bridge. - Also, like, she's doing it with Eartheater and Sega Bodega and Shy Girl, so like, you're also paying to see all these people too. - I literally just found a picture of a construction site under the Costco bridge. - Well, you should send it to me 'cause I want to imagine where Romeo came from. - I'm gonna send it to you right now. - Thank you. - So yeah, you're right, Romeo and Bjork have something in common. - Many such cases. Bjork's daughter follows me, so. - Hi, if you're listening Bjork's daughter. - She's harassing all this thing to the shit. - Oh, oh. - Oh, okay, this is kind of how I imagined Romeo's birthplace. - Yeah. - All right, well, if you weren't aware of the show, I'm sure it's probably already sold out, but yeah. Anyways, I wanna move on to our final topic. - I do, I do. - All right, so the new Joker movie, fully I do, I think I said that right. Which means like, have you heard of that term fully I do? - No. - It means like, if I remember correctly, it means like a, it's a rare psychological phenomenon where both people have the same delusion. You know, like how people talk about like psychotic delusions and like, obviously it's like one person's delusion, but fully I do, it means like two people are sharing the same delusion and like feeding into each other's shared delusion. It's a rare phenomenon. One example of this is in spoiler alert, perfect blue. In perfect blue, Mima's manager, that lady manager and then like her creepy stalker are both like working together and like have this shared delusion that like, she's the real Mima and that like, he's saving her. So that's an example of that. Anyways, so we can tell, you know, this is about Joker and Harley Quinn, they're definitely, they're probably having some shared delusions there. Anyway, it is a jukebox musical film, starting Lady Gaga and Joaquin Phoenix. A jukebox musical if you aren't aware is a musical where they sing pop songs or just like, they don't, it's basically they sing covers of songs and it's not like original songs. - Can I just say, when I watched the trailer, I literally got chills. - Really? - I'm not kidding. I really did. - Honestly, I'm not gonna lie. Like, it's probably not gonna be good, but I, no, no, no, no, I don't know, I don't know, but like, I feel like I'm gonna really like it. Like I'm just getting that in my gut. - Oh, oh, can I please start? I just have so much to, I have so much to say about the trailer. - Go, go, go for it, I knew you would. - So Joker, I love the first Joker and I feel like it's one of those movies that like, it's obviously flawed and not everyone likes it but like lots of people still love it anyways, despite its flaws and honestly, to be entirely honest, a lot of the people who love the movie despite its flaws, most of the people I know who love the movie tend to be men. - Yeah. (laughs) - I'm just saying, like I'm just saying, like it's the, like the people I know who really love Joker. I'm sure it's plenty of women who like the movie too, but a lot of the women I know who to the movie thought it was like pretty good while like the people who loved it. I don't know, maybe it's just a, I don't know. - I'm not gonna lie, I didn't love it. - All right, so. - But I respect you. - So we've got anecdotal evidence right here 'cause I love it. - And. - Usually we agree completely on movies. - Usually we agree completely. - And I like, I know what you mean, like it has some merit. I think it's funny, some of it's funny. Maybe when it shouldn't be, but it's not my favorite. - Okay, so. One thing, so I feel what I'm seeing from this trailer is I feel like this trailer suggests to me that they're taking what made Joker one. So amazing and magical. And perfectly balancing it out in a way that's gonna actually make it an objectively flawless, perfect movie that everyone's gonna like. - Can you explain on like what factors for you are gonna make it that way? - Okay, so Joker is, it's like a dark, weird, stressful and unpleasant movie. And I really like it, but obviously you have a movie that's like really intensely unpleasant from start to finish with all this like mental illness and horror that it's like, it's even though it's really enjoyable. There's also a part of it's actually kind of unpleasant to watching a little bit melodramatic at times. And that's part of the appeal, but it's also sometimes a little bit much. I feel like adding a love story to Joker and adding a musical dimension is exactly what's needed to take this unpleasant formula and still have that darkness and weirdness in it, but just kind of round it out a bit a little bit more. So you have those moments where there's a little bit more joy with some singing and dancing, a little bit more joy with falling in love. And I have to say, Sophie, do you, so just going back to this point I made about Joker being a movie a little bit more tailored for men? Are you sensing with Joker too? That there's a little bit. - I need a dance. - Oh shit, sorry. - What? - Oh, I don't know if you could hear my, I just got a text on my computer and it was super loud. So I'm just gonna. - I didn't hear it. - Oh, okay. - But it hurt my ears. I know what you're going to say. And yes, I agree. - Women are going to, so wait, what was I going to say? - That women are going to like this one more because it has Lady Gaga and it's more about romance and women's experiences will be presented. - But there's that, but also do you, are you perceiving on your sphere of the internet that women are more interested in this movie than they were for the first one? - Definitely, definitely. And I mean, Gaga is a big deal. I, if you aren't aware already, I have been a Gaga stand since I was like 11. I was active on stand, Gaga stand Twitter, more of a passive observer, but still active nonetheless. And I think Gaga is an amazing actress. She's an amazing singer. And I know she's just going to kill this role and it's going to be a little cringe, but that's why we love her. - I am so excited for this movie, Sophie. I really think it's going to be a cultural event that is up there, not necessarily equally as intense, as barbenheimer, but like I think when it comes out it's going to be like a movie everyone has to see. - Definitely. - 'Cause everybody loves Joker. Joker like successfully snowballed into like a very sustainable meme that like people still make memes with Joker. It's still, it's very culture. It's like the first Joker was a culturally important movie, even though it was flawed, and even though it was so tailored for like weird men. And this one is going to be better, I can tell, and it's going to be, have a wider audience appeal. Like I think it's genius. - I like, I agree, and I like musicals. I hope they pick good songs for the musical. Also, I wonder how the Joker and Cells, aka the Joker Cells, are going to react to this presence of a woman, Lady Gaga especially. Honestly, I hope one, I hope it reduces their misogyny, but that probably won't happen. Two, I hate Joker Cells, they're not real Joker fans, they just think they are, but they're not. Joker Cells are ruining, the Joker Cells are the bane of the Joker fan base. - I know, it's giving you that look. - I'm getting mad at those Joker Cells. - They're not representing the fandom or correctly. - No. - They're going to say that Joker has gone woke. - Yeah, well you know what? - Thank God. - Guess what, Joker has been woke. They just-- didn't understand the first movie properly because they're kids. Honestly, as someone who struggles with mental illness, as a man who struggles with mental illness, Joker was there for me. And let me know that you got you through some dark time. It did. Well, your story's kind of like Joker, you know? It is. And then you met me and I'm your Harley. Yes. Sophie, that's exactly what I'm saying. So do you relate to this, like, find me? Because I was going to say, when I was watching the trailer, it's like, wow, I honestly kind of feel happy for him that he's getting a girlfriend. Like, it seems like they love each other. I'm saying. It's rounding it out a little bit. It's the first move. Like, it's just adding a little bit of like sugar to it. Like, the first Joker was all just sour bitterness. And this next one is going to be sour, but also a little bit of sweet, too. Like, I, like, I, yeah, like, I feel, I literally feel so happy for him. Yes. Yes. And, you know what? Like, he, she's going to truly understand him. Yes. And the musical dimension, I think, is genius. Genius. Because, you know what? Here's the sad truth. Men like musicals. They do? Yes, they do. But they're socially conditioned to think it's cringe and feminine and that they shouldn't like it. But objectively, everyone likes a good sing and dance. That's true. Objectively, music is awesome. And, you know, and you just know Gaga's going to sing down. Like, yes. Gaga, a lot of people don't under, like, know how good of a singer-related Gaga is. But she's like a classically trained singer. She has, obviously, like, has a stylistic, like, approach to singing in her, like, pop music. But, you know, when you see her sing with Tony Bennett, when you see her sing, like, ballads and like, she has a really, really strong, great voice. Like, she's extremely good singer. And, you know what, Lady Gaga as a cultural figure on top of being incredibly talented. I feel like she kind of sprinkled in a little bit of Joker into the mainstream. Like, she is already a little bit of a Joker. She's a little bit Harley Quinn. She is. Yeah. You know? I also feel like in Suicide Squad, which is objectively awful, but really funny. Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn. I haven't seen, like, Birds of Prey where she's more, like, centered. But in the original Suicide Squad, I'm talking less about her character and maybe more how, like, men online sort of think of her. Like, I feel like the image of Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad or rather, like, this worship of her by, like, guys on the internet is kind of pornified, you know? And I feel like this portrayal of Harley Quinn is, like, a little more, I don't know. Like, the Harley Quinn, like, Gaga's Harley Quinn. This is not about Margot Robbie. Like, how Margot Robbie looks or acts. It's more about, like, how men view Margot Robbie's version. And I feel like this version of Harley Quinn is going to be, like, a lot more, like, human and, like, you know, sort of not, like, all about, like, being sexy, you know? Again, not Margot Robbie, just, like, how men kind of treat that character. Like, I feel like this character is, like, more, like, human and, like, individual. Does that make sense? I haven't seen the movie. What was it called again? Suicide Squad? You haven't seen-- oh, can we watch it? Please, please, can we watch it? Yeah, I'm down. I know it's bad, but that's why I haven't watched it. It's really funny. It's really, really funny. But I think what you're saying makes sense, but I just, I just, because I haven't seen it. It's hard for me. I don't know, but, like, you've seen, like, guys on the internet, like, just basically worship, like, the Margot Robbie version of, like, Harley Quinn and, like, make edits of-- I don't know. I mean, I guess, guys don't really make edits. But, like, I don't know. I just see, like, her, like, sexualized a lot on the internet. And I've seen a lot of, like, in cells called Gaga mid, and, like, say, like, that she's the bad choice for this, like, they should have cast Margot Robbie, which Margot Robbie, by the way, is an incredible actress. Like, she's a great actress. But, I don't know. I like Gaga, because Gaga, to me, is always, like, been, like, she is sexy. She's beautiful. But she's, you know, she scares off men. I like that she scares men. She's literally the perfect person to cast. There's no, there's no ifs ands or buts. Like, she's the perfect person to cast. And anyone who has issues, they don't understand. I just feel like the in cells, or, like, the creepy men on mine, who, like, worship, like, the suicide squad, depiction of Harley Quinn are not going to, like, the Gaga's version, just based on the trailer alone. So anything that makes in cells mad, I guess, you know. I really hope I don't come across as not, like, in Margot Robbie, because I really like her. Anyways. Well, you know, I don't really understand, like, I think, I, so one thing I think a lot about, probably not as much as you and other people, what I do think about it is how do we reduce the level of misogyny in our society? And I do think that barbenheimer probably helped a little bit because I feel like a lot of elementary school level feminism. Yeah, I feel like a lot of, I feel like a lot of men and boys need to, need to hear some elementary school level feminism because they, they don't, they don't know it. And they haven't heard it. And if they have heard it, they maybe dismissed it. But I feel like barbenheimer kind of helps get that a little bit into the, into some men's heads. And I'm hoping that this movie also helps reduce misogyny as well. One could only hope I don't think that anything could ever be so powerful, but yeah, even if it just move, even if it decreases it by 0.001%. That's a lot, that's a lot. That is a lot. But that is, that's, that is how powerful I think a Joker plus Lady Gaga combo is. That's what I think is at stake with this movie. So yes, as you can tell, I'm very excited for it. Yeah, I'm excited too. I think it'll be fun date for us to go see it. I do like, I do like this idea that you and I are kind of Joker and Harley. We are, like, she was fearless and crazier than him. And she was, she was this queen and God forbid he'd ever just respect his queen. Anything else? No, I think that's it. Do you have your recommendation for the, like, the girls and the girls? The girls? No, I'm just talking like I'm on Twitter. Sorry, do you have a recommendation for the listeners? Yes, I do. So I recommend that people who haven't already listened to this album should check it out. It is Dirt by Alice in Chains. You know, the reason I recommend it is because I feel like in terms of radio play, Alice in Chains, out of the big grunge bands, like Pearl Jam and Nirvana, and maybe, like, I guess some of Foo Fighters stuff, too. I feel like Alice in Chains is just not as universally recognized, like, everybody, like, it's like Alice in Chains is one of the biggest names in grunge, but they're also not as radio-friendly. And, yes, there is a, you know, there is a tinge of corniness in all grunge, including Alice in Chains, just because it's, I don't know, it's hard to explain, but the album Dirt by Alice in Chains is, like, so freaking amazing. In my opinion, it's, like, by far the best grunge album, it's, like, just absolute genius. There's so much cool stuff in it. There's awesome lyrics about drug addiction and depression and, like, there's tons of emotion in it. But then, also, musically, it's kind of unique, too. It's, like, it's very, it's, like, metal, but really fun riffs and fun arrangements. But then, there's also a lot of weird songwriting decisions where a song will take one weird twist or another weird twist. So, I feel like in every aspect, it's creative, it's catchy, it's fun, it's emotional. I think it's a freaking amazing album that lots of people have already heard and listened to. But, you know, it's not an album, you know, I follow so many people on music Twitter, and they all they do is talk about music all day. And this is an album I don't see brought up that often. And I think a lot of music nerds might dismiss it because they associate grunge with, like, mainstream stuff or whatever. but Alison Shane's dirt is actually a freaking masterpiece. - Well, thank you for that lovely recommendation. All right, for me, what I am going to recommend is this Twitter account that I discovered while writing a paper about Ukrainian art. Her name is Oksana Seminik and she's a Ukrainian art historian and she basically just posts like Ukrainian art that the art is UKR underscore art history and yeah, she just shares like paintings and other art from Ukraine. And the reason I really enjoyed this is obviously it's beautiful to look at but Ukrainian art is not, there's not a lot of scholarship or acknowledgement of Ukrainian art and a lot of that is because of cultural reciprocation and art and expression of Ukrainian culture under like the Soviet era, especially was banned. And even now, like the Russian military is like going into Ukraine and stealing a bunch of art. So I think it's cool to like, and important to like acknowledge the like cultural contributions of Ukrainians and you know, I've learned a lot from that account site definitely recommend it. - That's a fantastic recommendation. I just followed it. - Yay. - Yes, that's a really interesting cool topic to think about, especially with the war going on and it's like a cultural dimension of imperialism. - Exactly. - Ukrainian art, it sounds like Ukrainian art is, you know, a lot of yeah, like a lot of our account is explaining how, and this has and continues to happen where Ukrainian art is being labeled by museums as being Russian when it's really Ukrainian. And again, that kind of sounds a message like, oh, Ukraine has no culture. Ukraine's not capable of producing art of cultural prestige. I don't know, so I think that's really fascinating like how mislabeling of art, misattributing art can actually, you know, serve as like this cultural imperialism. And I know I sound like a liberal arts student, cringe right now, but it's true. You know, it's really fascinating. - Sophie, you are not cringe. You don't ever say you're cringe 'cause you're not cringe. - Thank you. - All righty. - All right, well, thanks everyone for, thank you. You had great one too. Thanks everyone so much for listening. This has been Base News Network. Make sure to go ahead and give us a epic rating. Please, thank you. Bye. - And check out our Patreon. - Bye.