Is MAGA still electable?

Do Republicans have an electability problem? We've heard a lot about the e-word when it comes to Democrats, not so much when it comes to Republicans. But we should ask that question. Donald Trump is an unpopular president leading an unpopular war. Gas prices are sky high and Republicans have nominated a bunch of scandal plagued candidates, like Ken Paxden in Texas or Max Miller in Ohio. They even nominated candidates who supported Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Here's Tom Tiffany, the Republican gubernatorial candidate in Wisconsin. He voted not to certify Joe Biden's 2020 win. Do you regret your vote, though? I'm looking forward not backwards. So have Republicans set the stage for a backlash in the midterms? This is going to be election between comments and versus crazy. Do you want to run a candidate that hates things getting? And are they the ones with an electability issue? That's this week on America, actually, where we talk to CJ Pearson. Let's dig in. Hi, it's Karen Swisher. You know me as co-host of Pivot, but for August, I'm flying solo and I've lined up some incredible guest host to join me, Mark Cuban, Chelsea Handler, Caitlin Collins, and a lot more. You won't want to miss. Already out, my conversation with Hillary Clinton. Among many other things, we get into redistricting fights, reshaping state politics, and what Trump's golden makeover of the presidency actually means. And it's not good. Trust me, you don't want to skip this one. Find Pivot on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Tracking macros has a bad reputation. People think restriction, obsession, and overwhelming food map. My experience has been the exact opposite. I'm Reverend Hudson. VP of Fitness Programming at Peloton, and learning my macros is what finally taught me what enough actually looks like. This week on Project Swagger, how tracking gave me more food freedom, not less, the mistakes it revealed, how I fuel now, and how to know what's right for you. Follow Project Swagger now for the full episode wherever you get your podcasts. CJ Pearson is only 24 years old. He first went viral as just a 12-year-old who was willing to criticize President Obama, and in conservative circles, it was a hit. President Obama? You don't love America. Since then, he's bounced around Republican politics and masked thousands of followers in the process. He's been a political commentator on places like Fox News and Newsmax. One of the most prominent, young, black voices in the Maga movement. Pearson wasn't always a Trump guy, but he's recently reinvented himself as one of the president's most vocal fans. He even teamed up with Trump's favorite election lawyer, Sidney Powell, to sue Georgia Governor Brian Kim, over Trump's false claims of a rigged 2020 election. Since 2024, Pearson has found some influence in Washington as a social media creator and a liaison for younger Republicans looking to make the GOP cool again. In fact, much of his work reminds me of what Jack Paso big told me when we were at the UFC fight in Washington. That Donald Trump drives a lot of his connection with younger voters through things like sports and culture. You go and look at the places that pro wrestling goes and holds their events, and then you go in cross-section that, cross-reference that with Maga rallies. It's one of those. The same group of people, the same sort of culture that speaks to each other. What the other thing Jack told me was that none of that matters, unless Donald Trump focuses on the issues that matter most in the midterm elections, like affordability and the Iran war. And of course, we have not seen that from the president so far. Republicans love pointing the finger at Democrats, but are they willing to defend Trump's record in this midterm elections? Let's ask Pearson and find out. CJ Pearson, thank you for joining us on America, actually. How are you? Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. I first want to just ask a broader question, because we wanted to talk to you about kind of Republicans in the midterms and their own electability questions. That e-word's been thrown around a lot about Democrats, but we want to think about how Republicans are on their own. If you could rate Donald Trump's second term, one through ten, what would you give it? Well, then the president is doing incredibly well for the American people. Promises made, promises kept in many ways. I think if you look at this president who ran on securing our southern border, he's done it. You'll get this president who's talked about bringing down costs. He's brought down the cost of dairy, eggs, he's achieved that. I think also this president is only just getting started. He ran on no tax on tips. He did that. He ran on no tax on overtime. He did that. Oftentimes, I tell people, the challenge of this administration is keeping up the messaging to the same pace as the accomplishments of this president. I think that there's a lot more work to do, thankfully, of two more years to do it. Can I get a number? I think he's doing well. I will say I grew up in a place where there's always room for improvement. So I'll give him an eight. You're giving him an eight. I wouldn't have to just start there because Trump's appropriating has fallen as I'm sure you have seen. Why do you think the country is it maybe on the same page as you? You know, I think a lot of people are focused on their pocketbooks, right? They're focused on domestic issues. And I think that, you know, we have been very nationally focused over the course of the past few months as we've navigated and dealt with the Iran conflict. But I think that as we get ready to get through this last wave of primaries, I think you're going to see a change in this messaging and a reset at the midterm convention and Dallas later this month or next month in September. And I think you're going to hear this president talking about how he's made America more affordable. How he's, you know, kept Americans safe far more safe than they were under President Joe Biden. I think that you'll see those numbers start to change and reminder, the only poll that matters is on election day or many polls that had come all hair is beating President Trump in 2024 and that didn't happen. Yeah, I don't want to be overly polarized, but we've heard some of this directly from Republicans even. We were at Donald Trump's UFC event in DC talking to young man and even there we heard people really come to be critical on three issues specifically tariffs the Iran war and the handling of the Epstein files just because he's not living up to what he said he was going to do. You know, he said he was anti-war, you know, he said he was going to lower prices and we're just not like that result is just not happening. You know, we're not seeing it. I mean, you mentioned the kind of question of affordability. Donald Trump has said, quote, I love the inflation and when asked by reporters about the public strain that has come from the conflicts with Iran, he said, I don't think about Americans financial situation. I don't think about anybody. How can you say that Republicans are going to run on affordability if the president is saying he doesn't care if Americans lives are unaffordable? Well, I'm often said that we can't see this entire affordability to debate to the Democrats. You know, the reason that I think a lot of young people are giving a little bit even a flirtatious nod to the DSA and their socialist communist canons is because they're talking that issue. That's top of mind for them in the same way that when president Trump won in 2024, he was talking about issues that were top of mind to the American voter, which was the cost of living. And so I think that we need to get back to that messaging. I think this president has continued to deliver on that front, you know, cost are coming down. The economy is resurging. We're seeing, you know, economic and global investment in this country and like anything we've seen before in Oklahoma, we're bringing back many facturing with aluminum smelting plant. But the president's not saying it's the president's saying I love the inflation and I don't think about Americans financial situation. Do those words help Republican mid-Saharms candidate? Well, I think the president has a lot of time to say a lot more things because election day is pretty far away from now. I think we have two or three months left. I think the president will make this case, but I think what will also make the case is that the candidates that, you know, the Democrats are running and nominating all across this country who are now filling themselves with the socialist movement are not actually fighting for things that will actually ever work. Socialism has never worked anywhere it's been tried. And I think that this is going to be a election between commonsense versus crazy. Do you want to run a candidate that hates things getting for the record that can't be lost in the primary. She would not be on the ballot in November. She almost was there though and that's the thing. I'm glad commonsense won the day in Wisconsin that the good people there love Turkey. I want to go back to the question of affordability because, you know, we were just a gas station in the Dalental, Pennsylvania, a toss-up swing district and the causational relationship that people have with the high gas prices and Donald Trump's world in Iran is really clear. You know, it doesn't take political genius to know kind of why you're paying more at the pump. We talked to one Trump voter who said specifically that he was upset with the president. I blame the president because he indicated to us he's going to drop all these costs. I know it can't happen overnight, but when is it going to happen? It's outrageous. Did you vote for him to cast? Yes I did. And did you vote for him on the premise that stuff like gas would be lower? I voted for him with his promises to American people and I think he's let us down. What is your message to that type of voter who's not looking at the Democrats on the other side, but is upset that Donald Trump's own words not matching the campaign trail to the action? I think my answer to them would be, I hear you, I feel you. At the end of the day, I think the price at the pump and the price of the grocery stores are again, the things that are top of mind for people, you know, while I think what the president is doing in Iran is helping avoid a global conflict. The imagination would have to continue with decades from now. I understand that there's going to be some short term pain that people are going to have struggles with. And I think that we got to reach people and just acknowledge the fact that yeah, there has been a slight increase in some of these prices and they matter a lot more to people than this kind of broad idea of what we're doing is going to be good a decade from now, right? Yeah, yeah. The macro long term is in a hit and when someone's worried about the short term, it does a little remind me though of 2021 too. when there was a spike in inflation and Democrats, I would ask them similar questions. And they would tell me, oh, you know, there's kind of a macroeconomic story that we can tell, and once inflation goes down a little bit, I think people will understand in the midterms. I mean, and conservatives, I think folks like yourself were telling people that Democrats were avoiding the kind of people's pain and that they weren't speaking to folks' problems. It's part of the reason, as you mentioned, that Donald Trump won in 2024 in the first place. Is this administration now not just replicating that similar type of blind spot? - Yeah, and so that's what I was saying, is if we have to reorient the conversation that we're having as a party around these domestic issues, or if not, we will lose as accurately in November. The reality of it is, again, is that these foreign entanglements, they show America's strength. I trust President Trump to get the job done and to do it well, far more than I ever would have Joe Biden, but the reality of it is, again, is that everyday voters, everyday people my age, they're concerned about grocery store prices, they're concerned about the price of the pump. Those are the issues that we need to be talking about. I think that from now until November, our entire message should be, how do we make America more affordable again? And on that point, President Trump has actually talked a lot about that, everything from supporting things like the Credit Card Competition Act, but also too. He's gone to places like Nevada, where there's a huge hospitality industry and talked about the impact that no tax on tips and no tax on overtime has had. The people that benefit the most from policies like that are everyday blue collar Americans, and we need to talk about that ad nauseam. Yup, I hear that. If we were to describe the Republican message in the midterms, it is what? I think what it, I'll tell you what it needs to be. It needs to be exactly what we just discussed, which is making America more affordable again. I guess where we somewhat identify a gap of where it is, though, and what you're saying it should be, right? Like, I'll do Republican candidates sound like what you're pretending here. Well, they should. But what I'll tell you is that I think the message as it currently stands is that this is an election between communism versus common sense, and I think that, you know, when it comes to that, I think that people are weary of you have some of these ideas that are being perpetuated by members of the DSA. They want to eliminate the Senate. They want to get rid of the presidency. It's bizarre stuff that actually doesn't actually resonate with many Americans. You also have people who are doubling down on things like biological men playing women's sports. That's an 80/20 issue. The more they talk about that, I got to tell you. I jump with Glee because I would love to talk about that every single day until November, because I know that the American people are on our side on those issues. Back in 2025, when Trump was first elected, that's how it was mentioned. You were part of a group profile with a bunch of media outlets who were seeming to revel in Trump's return, a kind of return of cool quote, kids moment in conservative culture. How would you say that's gone? Like, is Trump cool currently? No, I think he is cool. He's the coolest man in politics. But what I'll tell you is that he is a little barbie there. Oh, you know. Well, you're about to bomb a coolness. Trump cool, there's different kind of cool, you know? So I think Donald Trump is cool. And I think that what made these events cool was the fact that I think that you can go to them and actually just have a good time. And what we did is we actually didn't lead with politics for these events. And our last event was actually recent. It was for the July and celebration of America 250. We had money baggy out there performing. And we weren't out there having some political rally. We were just simply saying we love America and we're not going to apologize for it. I hear you to some of the grief, but it does feel like Trump has lost the internet. A little bit, I mean, even if we think about some of the pushback that was happening around the Epstein vows, you have prominent podcasters. If you want to think about the Joe Rogans of the world, we're certainly more willing to criticize him nowadays. I mean, it does stretch kind of credibility a little bit to say that Donald Trump's in the same place he was even in 2024, 2023. Like it doesn't seem like the timelines turned on him a little bit. Well, I think it's important to acknowledge in 2024. And I think that people were fully aware of this fact is that it was a fragile coalition of voters who were simply sick and tired of the status quo, right? They were sick and tired of, you know, what they were hearing from Joe Biden. They weren't ecstatic about the coordination of Kamala Harris and they were looking to someone who was speaking their language and offered solutions for the time. And that was President Trump. And so I think that we still have to, we can't rest in our laurels. I was always very, very like, I would emphasize this all the time. It's like just because Donald Trump did well with young people, doesn't mean everybody else going to do well with young people. And it's so interesting. And you may have seen this in a don't leave. It's like, I saw the tide turn kind of after Venezuela. Like, so Venezuela, we go in to Venezuela. We drop in there, we kidnap Maduro. People might age to love that. They were like, oh, this is America. Like we ran up in your trap. We took over your trap. And we also took your wife. Like that isn't getting more American than that. I loved it. But then there was something about Iran. We were like, wait, this is a little different. And I think that that is when we, as Republicans, as conservatives had to communicate to people why this was the America first position to take. I think we were a little slow on that. I think the messaging has come around a little bit. But I think we were slow initially to that. And I think that was a little bit of a problem. I mean, I think the problem is substantive. I think the problem is that Donald Trump said that he would not start another for the take of it in the exact place he has done so. He said he wouldn't start in new wars, new wars. We're not at war. For reasons that he left for reasons that he has not explained to the American people on behalf of interest. They do not think it's serious. So, well, we're not just for hairs. He said no new wars, you know? He said someone say this is a conflict or an entanglement. But after the break, Charlie Kirk, the war on DEI, and 2020 election denialism. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Babish, host of In the Booth with Babish. On this week's episode, I sit down with Dominic Cessa, who plays Anthony Bourdain in the new A24 film, Tony. We talk about getting into character as one of food's greatest icons. And, of course, which castmates he'd fuck marry or kill. Watch the full episode on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everyone. It's Sean and Noel. And we want to take a moment to talk to you about why we make this show. We make this show because we genuinely want to help you understand what's happening in support. And why it's happening? The context. We think that this is very valuable. And Vox members help us keep making this show. And they get access to some perks. Ooh. Let's listen, Sean. First, add free listening on today's plane. And all Vox podcasts, people love the Ed free listening. We love the Ed free listening. Unlimited reading at Vox.com. People love unlimited reading. Exclusive newsletters? People love newsletters, right? It's like the new club. Vox.com/members to join. Thank you. We both new Charlie Kirkland. I covered him a couple of times. And I know you occupied a overlapping conservative influencer space to the point you're making about building up institutions and connecting young people with Republicans. He occupied a unique space into doing that. And it somewhat seems to me like somewhat of the gap in what we're seeing now in that landscape is one that he used to fill. How big is that for you? You know, I think it's huge. And I think there will never be another Charlie Kirk. And I think that his absence is definitely felt. You see it across the conservative movement, which has kind of become like the real housewives of Atlanta. Like it's interesting. And some of these warring personalities all the time. It's like the way that I kind of get past it. I just say not my monkey, not my circus, but unfortunately, I realize it is my circus. And so it is very much your circus. It is very interesting. And I think that Charlie was really able to do is to kind of talk to all these different coalitions of people and bring them together and say, hey, let's figure out how we can allot and how we can actually communicate this in a way that we're staying united and that we're staying on message. And I think that his absence has felt in that way. A lot of these fights that typically would have happened behind the scenes are now fully on public view. Hopefully by November, we're united family. Families fight, families bicker. The Democrats know that well. Hopefully by November we get things together. I would be remiss if I wouldn't ask you about Trump's cuts to the federal workforce, which had a particular effect on black communities. And it seems as if this administration has almost made a point to humiliate some kind of prominent members of black public service. I'm thinking about Lisa Cook. I'm thinking about other members of the military. And polls consistently show that the majority American people don't like this, that they don't think that this sort of targeting is in line with American values. Is it in line with yours? When you have seen Donald Trump say some of this stuff of the rollbacks to federal diversity programs, what have you thought? >> Well, I think, you know, President Trump's an equal opportunity offender. In the same way, which he'll go after, or Lisa Cook, he'll go after, you know, a Republican Congresswoman like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who says something that he doesn't like. And so I don't think this is anything to do with race. In terms of DEI, I've never really needed DEI to succeed. I think I've been quite fun without it. And I think that it's unfortunate that, you know, black people have to go through public life with an asterisk sex to their accomplishments because people will question whether or not they earned it because of some, you know, quota or some, you know, racial program rather than their own merit. I think that there are tons of people in our community who are hardworking accomplished, whose accomplishments stand on their own. And I don't think we need that. >> I mean, I want to say this respectfully. But like your role in the conservative space has been as a young black man. And that has been because of identity. I mean, it is kind of rich to hear such a visceral reaction towards like DEI when you could argue that the space that you have occupied has been directly related to the fact that you are a young black conservative. Like, does that sound a little DEI, my friend? >> No, I don't. I think I offer a unique perspective that, you know, oftentimes maybe wasn't, you know, platformed by mainstream media sources, but also, too, is actually really emblematic of our community. There are so many conservative voices within the black community who, unfortunately, were not elevated. We were treated as some type of monolith for far too long, and I think that's why many in the media missed the moment where you saw young black men who were not going to be suned into voting for Kamala Harris as President Obama attempted to do in 2024. But beyond that, what I would say is that unlike, you know, it felt like in Tajik Brown, Jackson, he said something supreme court today because President Biden declared that he was going to appoint a black woman. I've never filled a black job, you know, that's never really been my thing. I've never, you know, I've focused on youth outreach and the overall, you know, movement and because I think the rising tide lifts all ships, the black community, the white community, Hispanics, black and brown people, all around. And so again, I feel like you could make that point without picking on the Supreme Court justice. Let's move on, I want to ask a couple more. Another trade debug Republicans, this cycle has been their refusal to acknowledge Joe Biden won the 2020 election. You were previously one of Trump's mouthpieces for false election claims. I wanted to ask you four years later, will you say if Joe Biden won the 2020 election? Well, President Biden did occupy the White House for four years. So I guess that would mean that. But what I would say in terms of is this the Republican line on this? Why can't you say that Joe Biden won more votes than Donald Trump in the 2020 election and was duly elected? I don't understand that. Well, I think if he lived in the White House and he was President of the United States, then that has to be true, right? But what I would say is that, you know, we continue to do all that we can to secure our elections. You know, oftentimes it's so interesting to me, the Democrats, you know, prided themselves on being the party of election integrity in 2020 as they perpetuated the Russia collusion hoax and then all of a sudden, you know, when President Trump starts talking about the need to, you know, end a legal, illegal aliens from voting in our elections or, you know, God forbid, support something as basic as voter ID. Now all of a sudden, you know, it's terrible or to throw it back because I'm from Georgia when Stacey Abrams refused to concede her loss to Brian Kent in 2018. She wasn't called an election to die air, but for some reason, when Republicans have the audacity to question, you know, irregularities, you know, we're conspiracy theorists. I think that's a little optimistic. There are some points that I think you can concede in that. I just want to say, like, it's not as if the particular actions of Donald Trump after 2020 are on the same scale of the things you're mentioning. And it's not like they didn't have material consequences. Like people died at January 6, like I've been to the federal courthouse where folks were in prison and their families were outside holding vigils for days, or like the harassment against poll workers were real. Like for the fact that there has not been evidence to substantiate the claims that you made in that election is there not any regret that there has been material consequences from some of that misinformation. Well, here's what I'll tell you when it comes to January 6, anyone who committed a violent act or action, I condemn then I condemn them now. But what I will say is that I think what's important and what separates us from third world countries and the democracy and the shining city on a hill that our founding followers intended us to be is having the ability to question the elections and to make sure that they pass muster. And I think that when anyone has, you know, this type of distrust of institutions and elections, it's not good for democracy left or right. And so I think that the more that we can do to make sure that people have faith in the integrity of our elections, is a good thing. And so I think that should be a bipartisan thing. And I would love to work with my friends on the other side of the aisle to do that. Let's focus our last question on the GOP in the midterms. I know that you say that the argument is based on kind of how Democrats are out of touch. But we have talked about some ways in which Donald Trump has not lived up to folks expectations particularly on things like prices and on things like the Ron War. How does the GOP overcome that electability question? What is their message when folks ask, is their life better than two years ago? I think we've got a lot going on. I think we also need to prosecute the case that it's going to be a lot worse under the Democrats if these crazy communists get into office. And so I think that when you're looking at costs, we need to make that argument central. We need to make that, you know, what we lead with. And I think that we have to kind of pump the brakes in a lot of the international stuff. And I think that we need to talk about the things that are actually affecting people's everyday lives at grocery stores, at gas stations, wherever it may be. And I think that is how we can kind of take the ship around. Well, you know, when we talk about the Democratic candidates you're saying there, you know, the DSA candidates are far left and we've certainly explored some electability questions for them, some ways that I think they might have stances that are misaligned with the American people. I mean, so does Donald Trump. And so he's endorsed scandal play candidates like Ken Paxson in Texas, like Max Miller in Ohio. Like, why is that not just as much as a sign of a conservative version of extremism, just as you are arguing that there's a democratic or leftist version of that? Yeah. Because I think you're talking about folks who have, you know, dealt with, you know, issues in their personal lives, not necessarily their voting record. Okay. Maybe I should say Tom Tiffany who didn't vote to certify the 2020 election, but I imagine you agree with them. The Democratic example. Well, no, I think that was six years ago. I don't think about 2020 anymore. I think about 2026. I think about 2028. And so when I look at that, and I think that that's important that we really make the case for crazy communism versus common sense. And I think that the American people are not going to know that Donald Trump win the common sense argument. Like, isn't crazy versus common sense an argument that Democrats can make and say Donald Trump is said crazy? No, because I think Donald Trump definitely wins the common sense argument when we're running against folks, you know, who belong to a party that is now, you know, waging a war against Thanksgiving, who believe that, you know, biological men should be playing women's sports. Again, these are 80, 20 issues. And so I actually really like, you know, our odds here. It's going to be hard, right? It's always hard for the party that controls the White House to, you know, fare all too well in any midterm election. But I think that we're going to overperform. I think the Senate is going to be, we're going to hold on to the Senate. The House will be a dog fight. But I think that, I like our chances. We'll see where we're going. We're going to hear your arguments. They care about work Thanksgiving by arguments. They care about the O'Rong War, like I think one of those matters a little more. But I hear you. Thank you for joining us. I really appreciate your time. And I appreciate you like taking our questions. We appreciate everyone who comes to us. So thank you for your time, CJ. This was fun. Thank you. So a couple takeaways after talking to CJ. Yes, he's young, but I do think he sounds like Republicans when they're forced to defend the actions of this administration. It's easy for them to talk about how Democrats are so extreme, but it's a lot harder for them to defend whether Donald Trump has actually followed through on his promises from the campaign trail. But that's because he hasn't. Donald Trump has broken key promises like rising gas prices or no new wars or even things like his handling of the Epstein files. So if this midterms is a battle over common sense, I think Democrats will take that bet because that's one they think they can win America actually will be in your feeds every Saturday with an interesting interview and culture or politics. And you could also watch these episodes on the Vox YouTube channel. Just go to youtube.com/vox or click the link in the show notes. The best way to support this show is by becoming a Vox member. Members get a bonus segment on Patreon every week and they make our work possible. Just go to vox.com/members to join. This show was edited by Kasha Prasalian, fact checked by Esther Kim and mixed by Shannon Mahoney. Christopher Snyder is our video editor and Kuhnui is our senior art director. Our executive producer is Christina Valis and our theme music is by break master cylinder. 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