Is It Wrong To Eat Popcorn At The Movies?

Hi, I'm Samia, I'm Samia Bezile, and I'm doing an episode for the sportful. Samia Bezile is a reporter from France, but she was spending a few months living in New York, and we were standing in front of a movie theater in Times Square, not for a movie, but. We're here to talk about popcorn, which is an American staple. Do they have popcorn in France? We do, but it's not as common as here. I feel like it'd be like a little bit too fun for French people. You can say that. I love popcorn. Popcorn and tortilla chips are my two favorite snack foods. Samia, I cannot go to a movie and not get popcorn. It's crazy to me. Why? I just can't imagine what a movie is not going to popcorn. I would never do that. I understand the appeal of popcorn, I would say, but I don't understand the appeal of popcorn at the movies. Now, I should say, we're not just here to chat. We're here for Samia to try movie theater popcorn. Let's do it right now. We're going to do it. This is going to be an authentic American experience for you, Samia. Yes, yes, I'm going to order popcorn at the movie theater for the first time in my life. Wait, you've never had popcorn at any movie, even when you were seeing a movie. Maybe when I was a child I did. Maybe. I did it once or twice, but as an adult, I've never had it in the movie theater. Never, never. My jaw is on the sidewalk of Times Square right now. For the record, Samia is a big movie goer. And she likes popcorn just fine. But she says she doesn't go to the movies to eat. She thinks when you eat, you should focus on the food. When you go to the movies, you should focus on the film. Now, I didn't think this one visit would totally convince her otherwise. But I was hoping to at least help her develop a taste for movie theater popcorn. You know what fine wine drinkers would call palette training. Hi, how are you? Could you please have one regular popcorn? And if you guys are raising it, that's it. Thank you. Thank you. So how do you eat popcorn? So that's how I eat popcorn one by one. So that is a fun way to do it. I also find it very satisfying. Just take a giant handful of popcorn and shove it all into your mouth all at once. But then how do you prevent it from going everywhere? You don't. Have you ever tried popcorn and raisin nuts together? And what? You don't raise the nuts? No, I haven't tried it together. We got to get some of that. All right. You want to get a couple raisin nuts? Yes. Coke is the popcorn. Together in the same bite. Okay. Salty and sweet. Okay. Chocolate, raisin, salty, sweet, buttery, everything happening once. Here we go. Mmm. Mmm. Okay. I like the sweet and savory combo. That has a lot of nuance, too. Okay. See, that's refined. The French would make it. This is the viral sensation. You got to bring back. Well, maybe by the end of the episode, I won't be able to go see a movie without a bucket of popcorn. Maybe I will make it more a thing in France when I go back. Maybe I will be like popcorn influencer. Who knows? Well, Sam, I can tell that you're an audio professional because that's what we in the business call a tease. This is the Sporkfall. It's not for foodies. It's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. Samia Bazille is a reporter and podcaster based in Paris. She covers social issues and pop culture. You've heard her here on the show before for our episode about the changing meaning of couscous in France. Today, though, Samia's asking very different questions. Isn't it in bad taste to eat popcorn at the movies? Can she be convinced that popcorn at the movies is not only acceptable, but enjoyable, not just for me, but for her, or is she just too French for that much joy? Here's Samia. So, here's the thing. I like America and I especially love New York. That's why I wanted to spend three months in New York over the summer. I just love the city. I love the people. I love having so much stuff to do. There's so many cultural events all the time. And there was something I wanted to do there that I always do in Paris. And that's going to the movies. So, I purchased a membership at AMC and I went to see very different kinds of movies like Romantic comedies and horror movies. But no matter what, I noticed something that was so irritating to me. Movie theater etiquette. People seem to have none. They would talk, they would look at their phones, they would get up to go to the bathroom and throw the whole movie, they would chew on popcorn. That's something I don't understand because you're here to watch the movie. What are you doing? For me, popcorn is a symbol of these awful manners. As soon as I see someone walking in with a giant bucket of popcorn, I know it's bad news for me. As I said, I've never eaten popcorn at the movies. I know, I know, I'm a snob. But seeing how popular it is in the US, it made me wonder why do people eat popcorn at the movies? Like, where does it come from? Popcorn predates film. Buy a lot. Take it from an expert. Andrew F. Smith. He writes about food history and he teaches at the New School in New York City. I've got popcorn ever since I started consuming it in the early 50s and I'm sorry to say that I still consume it just the other night. So popcorn for me still remains a very important topic. Andrew love popcorn so much that in the 90s, he published a book called Popped Culture, a social history of popcorn in America. He describes how the snack was invented thousands of years ago in the Americas. People discovered a special kind of corn which would pop when heated. As long as you can figure out a way to pop the corn and not have it burned in a fire, you can then begin to eat it. But it wasn't a major source of consumption for people in Mesoamerica or Latin America or in the United States prior to the time the Europeans came. When European colonizers arrived, they tried popcorn and they loved it. As time went on, it became a more popular snack. By the end of the 1800s, it was a staple at sporting events and fairs in the U.S. Then the motion picture industry emerged. Talky films arrived by the end of the 1920s, making movies more accessible to people who could have read. Soon, millions of people were seeing movies every week. It was only natural for popcorn to come to theaters too. So a large number of the popcorn makers initially were right outside the theater which made the theater not very happy because people were coming in bringing bags of popcorn. They didn't make any money on it and they were spelling the popcorn on the floor. But it wasn't just a mess. The theater owners realized they were missing an opportunity. They weren't making much money on ticket sales. So they thought, "Corn is cheap, popcorn is easy to make. Why don't we bring the popcorn business inside the theater and we can make our money that way?" And so they encouraged those who were selling popcorn outside the theater to come inside. It turned out the popcorn business was better suited to being in the theater anyway. When you have a large equipment that you could put into the theater in a single place, you could pop a lot of popcorn simultaneously and you could pop it over and over again so you didn't have the same problems that other people had when they were trying to sell popcorn outside. This plan really worked. Andrew says popcorn saved theaters during the depression and World War II, especially when other snacks like chocolate were rationed. Fast forward to today. AMC makes about 1.7 billion dollars a year from food and drinks. It's roughly a third of their overall revenue. So that's the story of popcorn in American movie theaters. But what about France? France is a lot smaller than the US, but it's very big on cinema. Still, popcorn is not as popular in theaters as it is in America. Reports say that around 20% of the French public buy popcorn at the movies, but it's not easy to find good data on this. Unlike AMC, most French theaters don't want to share how much they make from concessions. During the business of art, not food. After my few months living in the US, I came home to France. Now, it was time for me to learn about the history of popcorn at movies here. I talked with Emmanuel Itis, his sociologist who studies the movie going public in France. In France, culturally, we have to know that the maïse, if he had long been considered like a real sub-natured, or a real animal. Emmanuel told me that corn is sort of a second glass grain here. In the country of bread, wheat rains supreme. We'd spent around for thousands of years. Corn was only introduced in Europe in the 15th century. And for most of the time since then, it was mainly meant for farm animals. But we eat less movie theater popcorn, not just because we think corn is second-class. It's also because of how cinema evolved here. French cinema started with two engineers who were also brothers, Auguste and Louis Lumière. They made breakthroughs in photography and film in the late 1800s. They ran the first commercial film screenings, depicting scenes from everyday life. Emmanuel says one film showing a train arriving at the station looked so real that people screamed and rushed out for fear of being run over. In these early days, the films being shown didn't have stories or sound, so people didn't have to watch closely. And they didn't have to be quiet. Screenings took place in big exhibition rooms and circuses. People talked, they ate, they came and went. As filmmakers started telling stories, screenings moved from circuses to actual theaters. Sound was added, so you had to pay attention. In the 1930s, the movie chain Pate, which still exists today, would hand out a piece of paper. On it was a list of 10 commandments, spelling out the etiquette for going to the cinema. It was written like a poem. Movie goers had to arrive on time, take off their hats and coats. It also said not to step on your neighbor, on your way to your seat, and you were expected to applaud at the end. But the most important commandments be quiet. In some cultures, movie goers can be loud, not in France. To be sure, the 10 commandments didn't explicitly ban eating at the movies. In fact, starting in the 60s, an ashore would come in with a basket to sell chocolate and ice cream during intermission. But if people chose to eat after the movie restarted, they had to be discreet. Then, in the 1990s, theaters went through big changes, becoming more similar to American theaters. Multiplexes emerged in the outskirts of big cities to attract suburban patrons. Parents disappeared, and food sales moved to a counter. But there was no popcorn yet. It was all sweets. Many French people still looked down at popcorn. "We are the gastronomic land, and for this region, a lot of French people say you really eat a good food, not junk food." This is Patrice Benoit, and despite calling popcorn "junk food," his company is the one that eventually brought it to movie theaters. They're now the top popcorn producer in France. It's called Benoit Ciné Distribution. I took the train to Lyon, to talk with Patrice, at their headquarters. Patrice's dad sold notes as a wholesaler. He sometimes traveled abroad to buy products that he would then sell in France. In the 80s, Patrice flew to California with him. He was just a teenager. "My father visited a pistachio-productor, so he made a big order. It represents 50 containers, and there is some room in one container, and we see that a lot of American people like popcorn." Patrice's dad noticed that popcorn was such a big deal in the US, that a lot of Americans had their very own popcorn makers at home. So he filled that remaining space in the shipping container with popcorn kernels and a small popcorn popper. "When it arrived in France, he began to make popcorn, but only a little. It was for fun." Patrice's dad was popping the corn in his garage at first. Actually, the one who had the most fun with it was Patrice's grandma. "The first time she tried popcorn was when she made it at home." "Yes, the first time." "I mean, in your dad's garage." "Yeah, in that garage." She didn't understand the English language directions for using the machine. And since she never tasted popcorn before, she thought it was meant to be sweet, so that's what she made, a sweet version. Once they had a recipe down, the next challenge was to sell it. But getting French theatre owners interested was a struggle. When Patrice joined the business, he decided to give the popcorn a sales push. "My first customer, when I go and I show the popcorn, they say we are not chicken, we don't eat corn." So that's a movie theater, they told you that. "Yes, yes, we are not chicken." Even though Patrice's dad had sold some popcorn, it was still far from mainstream. Most theaters didn't see the appeal. But the theater eventually agreed to take a few bags and see if it sold. And actually, it sold quickly. Customers were happy to try it. "It works, it works. They were very surprised, but it worked." The popcorn was sweet, just like Patrice's grandma made it. Today, both sweet and savory options are available in theaters, but French people prefer the sugar version. "In France, the spectator won 12 sweets candy, and for this reason, it was normal to have sweet popcorn." So you basically, your family invented sweet popcorn in France. "We can't say it, yes." Soon, more and more theaters want it in. But still, it never got as big as it did in the U.S. Patrice thinks it's partly because French people are so health conscious. "It's not for my business, I say that, but it's not very good to eat popcorn. It's not very air-free. If you go only one time per year, okay, no problem, but one time per week, no, it's not a good thing." Patrice is clearly not a popcorn apologist. "When you see art, you have to care about this." To be respectful? "Yes, to be respectful. For example, if you go in a museum, maybe it's forbidden to eat, so it's logical to be careful and to take care of this." I have a hard time eating popcorn at the movies. I watch a lot of movies, but I never, ever buy candies or popcorn or anything. Because I think it's too distracting. Do you think I'm missing something and that I should eat popcorn? "No, you're right. You're right." See, even the top popcorn producer in France agrees with me. Popcorn does not belong in the movie theater. Or does it? Coming up, Samia finally tries Popcorn in the theater, during a movie, and she begins to question the real reason why this issue bothers her so much. Stick around. Welcome back to the Sporkfall. I'm Dan Pashman. Last week on the show, we nerded out big time. I invited Swetta Sivakumar and Daniel Gritzer, both of serious eats, to help me answer your food science questions. We got into one listener's ingenious hack, forgetting the most flavor out of her bowl of ice cream, and whether science supports the practice of rinsing ice before pouring soda over it? Did you know this was a thing? Did you know it actually might have a big impact on your soda-drinking experience? And we take a live call from a listener who's in a dispute with her husband about the best way to store fresh bread. We are a very pro-blind paste test family. And yet not for the biggest point of contention in your relationship? I know I'm ashamed that I didn't think of it before. It's a food science extravaganza. Last week on the Sporkfall, don't miss it. That one's up now. All right, back to Somia Basile in Paris, and her quest to discover the joys of movie theater popcorn. So when popcorn was first introduced in movie theaters in France, it's all better than expected. But even today, it still isn't as big of a thing as it is in the U.S. I asked Emmanuel Tis, the sociologist we heard from before. Who actually its popcorn at the movies here? He told me a better question would be, "Who doesn't eat popcorn?" He told me that purists look down on those who eat popcorn because you shouldn't need anything extra to appreciate a movie from Bergman or Kyrostomy. There's no popcorn at film festivals I can. Many art house theaters don't have it either. They're subsidized by the government. So they don't need a revenue. But it's about more than that. It's also a form of elitism. The movies that do attract more popcorn eaters, anything from Hollywood, and especially the big blockbusters. Emmanuel says the people who go to those films don't go to the movies as often, and they tend to buy more popcorn. As for Emmanuel, it's more a fan of independent cinema, but he's not against popcorn. In fact, he says he looks forward to the day when French people eat popcorn at smaller, more artsy films too. That would mean those films were becoming more accessible, that more people felt included. I'm starting to realize that my aversion to popcorn isn't just about respect for art. Emmanuel used a pretty strong phrase here, "May prix de classe", which you could translate as "classism" or "class contempt". So what if people don't consume art the way I do? Why is my way the right way? Because the elit said so? Now it was time for the real test. With a deeper understanding of all the factors that play, I had to keep my word and try eating popcorn at the movies. So, one weekend in Paris, I ditched my strict anti-pop corn stance and headed to the theater. I went to see the most recent Hollywood production, "Wake It For Good". I brought my friend David O'Norah along with me. Something you should know, but David is that he's a movie nerd. I'm not just saying that. He wrote a huge book on cinema called "Movie Land". He also co-hosts a YouTube channel, "Calmose", where he puts out film analysis for 250,000 subscribers. What do you think of popcorn as a snack at the movies? I actually don't mind it. I almost never edit, but I understand the fact that it's linked to the iconography of cinema. When we think of popcorn, we figure out cinemas. It's very natural, but actually, the time I really became a movie buff is when I started to go alone to the cinema. I think that going alone to the cinema, it would be very strange for me to have popcorn. Yeah, that's very true, actually. But even when we go together, I don't think I've ever seen you by popcorn, so why don't you buy popcorn even if you're with people? If you, it's different because I would say you kind of snub. You don't have popcorn, but when I go with other people, usually with people who don't really go often to cinema, they like to have popcorn, and when I'm with them, they have popcorn, and I pick a few popcorns in their pots. I love going to movies and I think it's part of the experience to have people and people do things. Most of the time, nothing triggers me. Some guy would have to, I don't know, to eat my seats, or if I see someone taking off his shoes or something very crazy, then you can get upset. Yeah, then I get upset, but other than that, I like movies, I like people. It's funny that you say, "No, I don't care. I like people. I don't like people." Maybe. So, I'm going to buy popcorn tonight. Are you going to get popcorn? Do you want me to share it with you? Yeah, well, I think I will have an issue about that because I think you like it salty. Yes, most French people like it's wheat. Yes, I'm one of them. I don't like it salty, not at all. So you're very French, actually. I'm too American for you. Yes, probably. I did one other thing that took me out of my comfort zone. I usually go to small independent theaters. Last year, I saw Wicked Part 1 at a small venue. This time, David and I went to Le Grand Rex, a giant art deco style theater, with thousands of seats, different from my norm. Since it's a Friday night, we get there early and get in line outside. I decide to talk to the people right in front of us. Believe it or not, they're Americans. What's your name? I'm Melanie, Megan. Where are you from in the US? I'm from Florida, Michigan. Are you going to get popcorn for the movie tonight? Yeah, of course. Of course, yes. Do you always buy popcorn when you go see a movie? Most times, yeah. Sometimes other movie theaters in the US have a lot of food that you can get as well, so sometimes I'll get that. That kind of food. Pizza, choros, hot dogs, lots of hot dogs. To us, I think that's crazy eating a hot dog or a pizza because that's very smelly. That's crazy to eat that at a movie. Are you not inconvenienced by other people eating at a movie? No, a lot of times people sneak food in as well, so I've had people eat Indian food or sushi sometimes on eating movies, so it's very common, yeah. I swear, the university's testing me. Maybe I could come around on popcorn, but pizza and sushi are a bridge too far. We finally get inside. I have to say, the building is beautiful. Red carpets, gold-lighting fixtures, murals at show Paris with lots of color. Day in the night, get up popcorn, savoury for me and sweet for him, and we walk inside the theater. It's huge. There are columns and a ceiling that looks like a night sky, with stars and clouds. The audience is mostly younger than us, and most of them hold buckets of popcorn. The real magic starts with the movie, the audience cheers when the actors sing "Chai Revo" and "Ariana Grande" show up on screen. The clap, the laugh, the applaud when Alphaba and Fiero finally kiss. I've never seen so much life at the movies in Paris. I didn't even know that was possible. Nobody can hear me rummage through my bucket of popcorn, let alone my crunching. They don't even care. This makes sense. I'm seeing so much popcorn because this is a big American movie, right? Well, Emmanuel, the sociologist, thinks it also has something to do with the venue. Regulars at his grand theater have their own idea of what cinema should feel like. They think the proper way to watch a movie is to be loud, and yes, to eat popcorn. They see it as a show with its own rituals, which are very different from mine. I'm starting to think that maybe Emmanuel and David are right. Cinema is art, yes, but it's also entertainment. Popcorn is just a visible sign that people are having a good time. Is that so bad? It's not that I'm too French for popcorn, it's that I'm too uptight. No, I won't buy popcorn every time I go see a movie. But you know what? I can appreciate that other people do, and I can even see the fun in it. Most importantly, when I look around, I see that we've all come to watch the same movie and that we all support theaters and cinema, and that fills my heart. So, if you like popcorn, I'm sure we can get along. If you're not too loud, of course. Well, I think we came a long way in this journey. We did. It feels like years ago that we were standing outside that movie theater in Times Square. You've come so far. I know. I mean, do you really truly think we are not doing it for this portfolio that you may sometimes get popcorn at the movies in the future? You know what? I don't know if I'm ready for that yet. I want to be more fun, but you know, I've gone back to the theater since, and I haven't gotten popcorn. So, I guess I still need some time to get used to it. Okay. You're working your way up to it. Yes, exactly. But I feel like I'm less judgmental of people who eat popcorn like you then. I'm getting better. Thank you. Working on my snobbery for popcorn is a way to work on my snobbery just in general, and I don't want to be like an elitist. I think popcorn was a way for me to get a different view of the world around me. What's one other thing that you would like to be less judgmental about? Oh my god. Like people who don't read. Cut ahead to 10 years from now. You're going to be like, reading? Who needs it? Just give me a big telepop corn. That's when you'll get your American citizenship. You know, I don't want Americans to hate me. So you say it. I didn't say it. Okay. All right. Well, Sam, yeah. Thank you so much. I look forward to the follow-up episode to this story five to ten years from now. Yeah. Well, thank you for getting me into popcorn and showing me how to eat it and why it was joyful. I think it was very interesting. And so, yeah, let's speak in five or ten years and see where we are. Do they have raisinettes in France? Do you want me to send you some? Should I send you some raisinettes? Please do. Yes, please do. That could be like a gateway. I think that, you know, maybe you can impress your French friends with that more complex flavor pairing. Yeah. I think that would be great to receive a package. Thank you. All right. Au revoir. Au revoir. That's Samia Bazile. You can listen to her couscous story right here on the sporque fully. If you haven't heard it already, it's still in our feed. And if you're into pop culture history and if you speak French, check out her new podcast star system. We'll link to Samia's work and her Instagram in our show description. I also want to thank our old friend Mackenzie Martin, who we worked with. I'm at Hydrox Story a while back. Mackenzie let us use her interview with Andrew F. Smith. Mackenzie actually made a whole episode of her podcast of people's history of Kansas City, all about the history of American popcorn and its connection to Casey. We'll link to that in our show notes as well. Next week on the show, we continue with our French theme when we talk with the legendary TV chef Jacques Papand in honor of his 90th birthday. I go to Connecticut to visit him at his house. It was such an incredible experience. We drank wine together. He told stories and he taught me a trick for drinking wine. It's almost as shocking as eating popcorn at the movies. That's next week. While you wait for that one, check out last week's extremely nerdy episode in which we tackle all your food science questions. It's up now. And hey, did you know you can listen to the Sporkful and the Sirius XM app? Yes, the Sirius XM app has all your favorite podcasts plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era. Plus live sports covers. Your podcasting app have that and there's interviews with a list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the Sirius XM app by going to SiriusXM.com/Sportful. This episode was reported by Senya Bezil. This episode was produced by me along with Managing Producer Emma Morgan Stern and Senior Producer Andres O'Hara. It was edited by Camille Stanley. Our engineer is Jared O'Connell. Music helped from lacklabel music. The Sporkful is a production of Sirius XM podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman. And I'm Tanya Hudson in Sulfur, Louisiana, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.