Is De Zerbi Spurs' saviour? Can Italy end their World Cup curse?

The Athletic FC Totally football show today spurs egos to stress it was mutual consent as tutors to multiverse term terminated elsewhere all white on the night at Wembley World Cup playoffs kickclashes and more to come on this totally football show and hello listener it's monday the 30th of march for us in the brand new recently refurbished totally studio got Daniel story not able to enjoy it up on the big screen how you doing Daniel I'm well Matt how are you yeah I'm very well thank you I'm going to ask everybody who is studio based today to pick a favorite photo adorning the walls of the studio these days Tom Williams is there's a couple of France related ones you're going to stick to type hi mate yeah that would be the most predictable choice wouldn't it quite like Perlo V Zidane over here from the 2006 final yeah obviously the image of that final three I mean the image that very much comes to mind when you think of that game Zidane yeah looking like he's about to nut the ball rather than another player if only he knew what was to come and Duncan there's a couple of mascots arms round the referee with an extremely large football but I'm guessing that's not the one you're going to pick no quite I'm obviously conté to cool handshake gate one over there and the corner's quite good I don't like the matter actually really possible because that's been seen on social media approximately four trillion times and there's a better version yeah where my trats is leaning on really cost us shoulder quite I quite like the dude that one because I mean everyone knows he didn't really stand his line but you can see there you can see the goal line so yeah fair play yeah that's that extent your Patrick's with us for the first part of the show talk top them does that mean that you're picking a quite poorly framed image of your uncle in the game yeah I mean it's directly opposite me and I'm here to talk about so I do feel duty bound to pick lens when there aren't many others really catch my eye maybe run on Dino kind of add a bit of joy it's what's more there's some some there's some you know kind of classic photos we've also got razor Ruddock during his swindon town era which is a story a bell of period of time I completely forgotten about all right well Daniel and I aren't going to pick one in protest in the fact that there is simply not a not a nossigan forest image to be seen now but Dan is with us to give us the view from the lane on the latest top them to molt we're going to start with a spur statement on Sunday this is the tightly football show part of the athletic FC podcast network 44 days and out then for Igor Tudor lasted five days longer than one of his predecessors and post-coglu did at forest 24 hours more than Liz Truss managed as prime minister now he's not the shortest raining Tudor in English history though apologies the relatives of Lady Jane Gray for bringing up her nine day tenure at the end of the Tudor period on the pod again egos inevitable exit announced on Sunday afternoon a statement which amongst other waffles said we can confirm it's been mutually agreed for head coach egos Tudor to leave the club with immediate effect we also acknowledge the bereavement that egos recently suffered and send our sports him and his family at this difficult time ability on x pointing out day and kulasvski last played the spurs three managers ago the next higher will be the fourth manager since his injury he never played for two of them we're going to get down to the person who looks like he's coming in to take Tudor's play shortly but in terms of the outgoing manager had to happen had to wait in a prepparing amount of time following the bereavement shouldn't have happened in the first place is that about some it yeah i think that about sums it up i think after the three-year defeat to forest last time out his position was more or less untenable i mean so it didn't just lose to a relegation rival at home they got thumped by relegation rival at home it was really hard to see him carrying on after that then you add in this family tragedy that he's had in his own personal life he obviously went back to Croatia straight after the game has had the funeral of his father mario since then so i think it's probably fair to say that ego Tudor himself now has bigger concerns than spurs and it just made sense for everyone to to make a change he has been a disaster he is not the biggest problem we was not the biggest problem at spurs he didn't start the rot of spurs but he's accelerated it i've just done another athletic podcast with James homecast actually and to just to throw James under the bus on on a second athletic podcast he compared Tudor to Winston wolf when he joined spurs in that he comes in and he quickly and efficiently kind of cleans up messes i'm trying to think of another kind of Tarantino character we can compare him to i could only really come up with Mr Blue and that he was a very brief part of a major disaster but quickly forgotten look he came in with a mandate to make a quick impact and clearly he has not done that so i think this is the only decision spurs could really make i guess there are a number of questions now but one of them is is it come of too late to save the season if you were playing the blame game who you appointed your finger at more than anybody else players board Tudor the board the hierarchy i mean the people in charge of the club would know to say well we inherited a mess from the previous decision makers i Daniel leave in his inner circle obviously there is a question as to whether ee Nick because i'm refusing to call them the Lewis family going forward whether ee Nick will be kind of pulling the strings in the leave the air all along or whether it really with different people making decisions that's kind of a relevant you know the the mess spurs are in is because of the decision makers of the club past and present the biggest mistake i think they made was sitting on their hands for too long when it was clear that Thomas Frank wasn't working you know i knew from the start of november as a spurs fan and kind of spurs watcher that that it just wasn't going to work i think the roundabout the time spurs meekly lost the Chelsea i said to people you know this guy is not a spurs manager spurs i've got to do something that was certainly clear to me in november and to others it was obvious in December it was obvious in January and february 11th was too late to make that change so they sat on their hands there perhaps if they'd have listened to phobia practicing got judo in in november you know there would have been a different story for him and for spurs you know he would have had more time and more breeding space to to kind of work his way and and make a make an impact as he has done at previous clubs so yeah the ultimate responsibility lies with them i do think having said that you know there's a degree of responsibility for the players and obviously coaches past and present too you have to say that this poor run of league form started under angipostocoglu and daniel leavey you know it did not start this season spurs were in freefall in the second half of the last season but that was mass by the reber league win where does he ranked on getting terms of calamitous premier league managerial appointments or can we not say that definitively until we know whether or not taught them a premier league or championship next season well it sort of reminds me a little bit of when sam aladai's went into leeds the year they went down and he had completely forgotten about sam aladai's go to leeds until i read her how does it get you to compare to other short ten years yeah and and i just came in uh in traditional confidence style and said winning games that's what i do and then proceeded not to win games and it just feels like when you get to this stage of a season i mean there was once you know once upon a time a club having three managers in a season seemed outlandish you know forrests a hundred to their fourth um and i think if you look at the bottom of the premier league right now i mean we're it's a bizarre situation where everyone's kind of managed everyone down that they're all in a sort of whatsapp group going you know who's got training this week well well do that seem yeah um so i think i mean what is interesting is who spurs a point now because you know with with what's it seven games to go it's um there's a lot of pressure and and you know we know that different managers can can start differently and and you know if they go for deserving as as we're led to believe it's going to happen whether he can kind of change stuff quickly enough is a big question great news for les read who for very long time was only famous for having had the the shortest premier league managerial ten year and having not really done anything else in premier league history prior to that i know he hasn't lost it to eager to really lost it to sam aladais but at least he can you know now perhaps well he was also the one that was at las miserable to see the set on magnificently dubbed on christmas e christmas eve as well i mean i was i was at the game on the 23rd the caribou cup well wasn't caribou on those days but caught a fine a wickim beat league two wickim at the time beat charlton and that was that was enough the axe fell this is slightly straying into he's 27 until he's 28 territory but there is some debate about how forty four the days you do you count the day he was appointed and the day he was sacked which in my mind you do but then the argument is if someone was appointed yesterday in sacked today that's one day but my view is that that's the only circumstance fully it works and even if you appointed monday and your sacked wednesday you've you've done three days so there is some contention but it doesn't change a fact that i think pasta coglue now has the shortest rain or is it still aladais still aladais was still in it but he's not a permanent so he was yeah i think he was in to he be out of that's why day but i mean let's be honest still he none of them are none of them i tell that another one in there yeah none of them are coming out with with a badge of honor not particularly no i will get onto the dessert be sure to last wed on tuesday to you though Daniel how damage is his reputation by this or can he just sort of say spurs in it i mean i suspect I just bet that's exactly what he will say when he has meetings with clubs who are not Tottenham Hotspur. I mean, I thought it was dreadful and a dreadful idea from the start. I just, I didn't get it. I know he had this firefighting reputation, but to me that firefighter reputation always, always traditionally felt country dependent, right? So you were, you weren't a, just a firefighter. You were a serious firefighter or you're a Premier League firefighter. And that's, that's how it's always been and I think that's probably judged on this rain and others, how it will always stay. So I guess he'll go back to Syria or maybe to, back to Liga and try again. He won't be damaged long-term because, because whatever happens at Spurs, you know, Dan's just said it. Everybody knows it's the hierarchy that is to blame. It's not his fault. He was offered a job that he took. He did do it really badly and he did do some really strange things in terms of tactics and in terms of, like PR, you know, how we talked about the club. But yeah, I mean, it goes way beyond him. And yeah, he'll probably go back to Syria and he'll be managing. Let's see it again or someone like that soon. Yeah, certainly no tears shed in the Kinsky House call. You wouldn't have thought. So the latest reporting as we have it on the athletic from Jack Pitbrook on Monday lunchtime is that Roberto Deserpie is likely to be appointed as the third head coach of the season. They've offered him a long-term contract, significant financial package. You're making one of the best paid managers in the Premier League. Several Spurs, supporters, groups of voice to reservations. Daniel has also got doubts about Deserpie. Yeah, I think it's a high risk appointment and probably not worth it, ultimately. So I'm always wary of kind of ascribing a view to a fan base as a whole. There will be a lot of different views and opinions on Deserpie within the Spurs fan base, of course, that will. But what we know is these three groups. So Spurs LGBTQ plus supporters association. They're women supporters association and Spurs reach. I think they're kind of ethnicity and cultural heritage. Official supporters association have all come out and said no to Deserpie and I kind of urge the club not to pursue him as a manager. So we know that. And putting aside what Mason Greenwood did and putting aside what Deserpie has said or has not said or has done and has not done over Mason Greenwood. Spurs have a major disconnect between fan base and club. I mean, I's never been greater in my adult lifetime. And it is a major problem and they're not going to move forward as an organization. They're not going to be successful unless everyone's on the same page and putting in the same direction. And there's kind of alignment and a clear direction of travel. And if Spurs appoint Deserpie, who is by name means a sure thing, by the way, he's not guaranteed to say them from relegation. They are going to immediately alienate a section of the fan base. It may be a small minority, but it's still going to be a section of the fan base who are never going to accept this guy. And I think that's a major problem and I think for that reason they shouldn't do it. Now there's no manager arguably, apart from possibly Poshatino, who would unite everyone in the fan base. But let's say if it was Oliver Glastner or Silver or Irrero for the sake of argument, there would be some supporters who say, you know, I don't like this guy's personalities who combustible, I don't like his tactics. He doesn't play great football, whatever. But there wouldn't be supporters who are fundamentally opposed to those guys on a kind of values level and say that I will never accept him and there will be supporters who will be thinking about Deserpie because of what he said or they perceive, you know, position he's taken. And I just don't think, I mean, frankly, I just don't have the energy for it. I suppose I've had, you know, a succession of cultural managers, Andrew as a cultural manager, massively split the fan base down the middle. And I think there was a cultural manager, a contact was a cultural manager, they haven't had unity in a fan base behind the manager really since Poshatino. And as I suppose, fat, I'm just kind of exhausted by it. I think a lot of fans are just exhausted by it. And I don't think they should do it again. And it's kind of baffling that the hierarchy haven't learnt this lesson. And adding into the fact that Deserpie's tactics while exciting are kind of pretty prescriptive, aren't they? And there's no guarantee that he's going to come in and teach this broken and fragile group of players to kind of bait the press or whatever is he's going to try and tell them to do and get results in seven games. So I think this is extremely risky and frankly misguided pursuit and yeah, as we sit here now, we don't know if they're going to be able to persuade them persuade him sorry to take the job and I kind of rather hope they don't to be honest. How is he viewed in France at the start and end of that that spell at Marseille Tom, because obviously that's his most recent posting. I mean, Deserpie's Marseille spell went exactly as I think everyone predicted it would in the he comes in and has a full preseason to work with the squad loads and new signings arrive at the same time very quickly gets Marseille playing really exciting football gets the fans on board. And first season, I mean, a multitude of ups and downs and many crises and genuine crises, but the season culminates in him qualifying OM for the Champions League automatically, which was, you know, the main target that he had. And obviously in the second season, everything just just blows up and you, you know, we know the double edge sword that a Deserpie managerial tenure brings chances are the football will be really exciting. The players will buy into it. The fans will find it exciting, but he has a way of just grinding people down, you know, grinds the players down creates this atmosphere of permanent tension. And I didn't help at Marseille was that he was surrounded by senior figures who were similarly emotional and reacted to setbacks sometimes even monumentally minor setbacks in very emotional fashion. So you have this constant feeling of chaos, this sense that at any given moment, the whole thing could just explode and inevitably it did. I think that the one thing that you would say in Deserpie's favor looking back at his time at Marseille is that there was this constant churn of players, constant turnover, incomings, outgoings, a player comes in his flavor of the month for like, you know, less than a month. And the next thing just you never see him again. And then he leaves, you know, a couple of months later. And he was constantly building on on shifting sands. So you had this, you know, this just permanent instability, which was exacerbated by the fact you had this extremely emotional coach. I think the problem with regard to spurs at the moment, one of the many problems to the record is that the spurs job right now is the ultimate poison chalice. I think no matter who you are, as a coach, the thought of coming in and having seven games to turn this, you know, this oil tanker that is heading straight for the rocks around and knowing that the reputational damage that could be caused if you don't succeed is something that will way extremely heavily. And the coaches you could come in in the summer and given a full preseason will be able to begin to turn things around. But I think the chances are they're not going to want to accept the job now in the hope that they're still apparently once he wants the job in the summer provided spurs stay up. And he's saying, would you can understand? Yeah, yeah, would you can understand. Yeah, he doesn't want to know that he's got to go to Lincoln. Precisely. And you know, spurs have made this mistake before, you know, Conte didn't want the job in the summer of 2021. He just left into he wanted a break. He wasn't really that he, I don't think he saw spurs as a good fit for him. So culturally and new came in with the disasters, but a sacked him and then went back to Conte with a, you know, improved off of Conte was a bit bored, I think by that point, thinking, you know, could do something to do. And they kind of persuade him to take the job and we know how that ended and they're kind of making the same mistake again. It's like this guy doesn't want the job right now, but you're presumably hoping to make him an offer he cannot refuse. And that's bringing in a coach who is immediately kind of starting on the back foot in an environment that he doesn't really want to be in. And you look at spurs fixtures as well. I mean, first game would be Sunderland away, not easy. No, brightening at home, then, which narrative is reaching up that and then wolves away and we know wolves are one of the best teams in the Premier League right now. There's always a lot of out. Daniel, how spurs relegation rivals like likely to view this appointment if indeed it does happen intrinsically if they take the fans out of this for the moment and Dan's absolutely right to talk about to firstly talk about those fan groups. It's completely relevant, but putting that to us to the one side, I think if spurs get what they feel they want, that's probably bad news for everybody else. The clanging irony to that is spurs getting what they want has only led to spurs getting worse and worse over a period about half a decade. That's also relevant. I think the does I mean, the service things fascinating, but right because Lewis dunked an interview where about a year after joined Brighton after the Zurbia joined right and where he said the first few weeks were like incredibly baffling we just couldn't go we didn't really know what's doing training it was like really hard to get to grip for this football, but look at us now. And yet obviously to Zurbia's first few weeks are going to be the most defining weeks in his job unless something extraordinary happens if he if they go down he has a decision to make about whether he stays and he at that point he has a four years nine months left on his contract. as we're told it'll be a five-year deal. which is extraordinary. So it's just, it's just, it's a kind of emblematic of everything that Spurs are now that a 5-year deal would be basically just term in successful failure within seven games and that they are in this position at all. I honestly thought that they would turn to Ryan Mason for the third interim spell just to try and limp themselves over the line and I think if they'd have done that rather than chewed it, I think they would have probably stayed up. I think they would have been enough good will within the squad that maybe that would have kind of arm around the shoulder I'd been here before I'd done this before might have worked but they obviously felt that that was too much for a risk but then you know financially deserved a huge risk if you look at the money that he's reported being offered and the length of the deal. So yeah, if I'm West Ham and Forest none of us know what to think, right? We were just kind of desperately trying to pretend the other clubs don't exist and focus on our own form. I am glad that as a forestman that we played Eagortuda's Tottenham rather than New Managing X's Tottenham because that felt like something awful you know it never felt that that was going to work so that would be my only feeling. Well it's looking like it'll be deserving it's definitely not going to be Jermaine DeFoe. He's taking the woking job the chance to work with the sons of UCS Colline and Darren Cascay and Jermaine Pennant's nephew impossible to resist for any others but particularly for DeFoe it turns out. He used to play for England which is going to lead us nicely to our international chat. That comes next Dan. Thank you so much we'll catch up with you again soon. Pleasure thanks guys. This is the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pierce, Oli K and the very best football writers around. And the final change is going to see Ben White come on. And that reaction was I think predictable. Parma tried to make that happen and they have made that happen. Tats in by Ben White and the Barcos. Ben White collides with Vignas. Vignas sees it over the bar. The referee is being appealed for a penalty. A late penalty for Valverde. It's a level thing. Jenny does. It's not the first time he's been a Manchester City goalkeeper this season. One all between England and Uruguay at Wembley on Friday. A friendly at the business centre. The domestic season in front of a disinterested crowd. Let's test our panels metal then by seeing how much content we can spin out of this. If nothing else Daniel, it was an event for Levering for Ben White. It was a little drip of narrative that it's fair to say that evening needed after 78 minutes. I mean it was really desperate. It was boring. It was sort of sold as, oh Marcus Rashford has at least done himself a favour and I thought, yeah that's just because he beat one guy once on the left wing isn't it? It was that sort of night. It was without wanting to dig up old graves which I will now proceed to do. There was this sense I think that when England got a new manager, everything was suddenly going to be exciting and everyone was going to look forward to the home qualifiers and the friendlies were going to be pot bang and whistle. Another than some pretty physical challenges by the Urogrine players. It just had none of that. There was no interest in the game whatsoever. It was badly timed. It was a bit odd too. She'll just pacey picking the reserve squad and saying someone show me what you can do because the reality is that those players will show what they can do when they're surrounded by the first team, not when they're surrounded by each other. It just felt a really compartmentalised deconstructed format which was pretty horrible to watch for everybody involved. Yeah I mean there's strong unbroke up energy to this international break with Urogrine Japan and or Japan as was contractually obliged to have pronounced it. We didn't learn anything. It played as we better for the couple of weeks holiday. Daniel said it there. We're not learning anything at this point. We're just trying to avoid injuries and to be fair Urogrine didn't help on that front. So if Phil Foden's learnt how to dodge matrix style challenges at the World Cup from that, there may be something came out of the game. There's been an interesting window in the sense that we're not used to these inter-confederation or friendlies anymore because the gaps in the international calendar that used to exist for friendly games are now taken up by the nation's league. So I think as a consequence, we've forgotten quite how desperately dismal an awful lot of these matches are. I've been to more meaningless England home games and I can care to remember and I sat down and watched this as an England fan, not as an England fan. Obviously don't. Thank you for checking. Not taking as under your wing now for the summer. No chance. You'd be well done, I believe you may. But I put this on. I was like, OK, it's England friendly. You're a guy, you know, see what it's like and within like five minutes, just you get lulled into that England home friendly routine, the disinterested crowds, the paper airplane start flying. The paper airplane thing is like the New Mexican way, but it's specific to Wembley. But I mean, you say crowd, but I mean 80,000 people turned up for it and I can remember the 90s when these sort of games are we going to England Nigeria before I think 1995. So in that period where England had no competitive games because they're hosts of the euros and I think there were like 32,000 people there and similarly dreary, one one draw, if I recall correctly. And so yeah, I mean, financially fair plays their focus. They've managed to keep managing to convince a lot of people to come and see these games, but I'm not entirely sure why or how. The managed convince a lot of people, England struggling to convince players to stick around, eight of left the camp, Ramsdale to Maurey, Cavalry, Stoans, Walton, Madweck, a rice, Sacka, is that a probably Daniela out of all of those, Adam Walton, maybe the most significant, he just always seems to be injured in and around international duty and James Garner did all right on Friday, which might concern Walton. Yeah, absolutely. The kind of resonating quote from England, Jura Gry was Thomas Tushra describing Garner as the mini Valverde, which is is a whacking great compliment and is probably evidence that he has jumped slightly up the queue. I don't know if it'll be a head of Kobe, my new yet. I think it probably might be a head of Adam Walton now just because of availability and Walton's availability has been an issue at club level this season as well. I think Anderson and Rice are the two starters and we may well get a chance to see Anderson alongside my new, I suppose against Japan with Garner coming on possibly to kind of show what you can do next to him. Rice is obviously a shoe into start. I think Anderson's a shoe into start, but Garner is really useful to international managers because that versatility of position is issued. He's played at fallback for ever, too. He's played at Central Midfield. He's played slightly advanced role in that Central Midfield if he's needed to. So he is multi-positional and international managers love that and it sounds like Thomas Tushra is making him kind of one of his teachers pets. Yeah, I'm those withdrawals too cool. Going down me, I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed route, which always hurts more, doesn't it? It's Japan. Japan on Tuesday, a Japan side-ebeat Scotland won nil at hand that on Saturday, a result which was greasy by booze from the Scotland fans at the final whistle. Steve Clark animated as ever, said it was disappointing. It's just the modern way. It seems to be if you lose a game, you get booed. You just have to deal with it. He's going to be hoping for some big Dickinson energy when his side-tech on Ivory Coast, Everton's, New-East Stadium on Tuesday. It was like it'd done come when you get a random venue. National friendly. Yeah, I mean, I think Loftus Road is a strong contender for this. Craven cottage, the other Craven cottage as well. Yeah, M.K. Don's, we don't like that, that exists in some respects, what they do often provide a home for international. But yeah, I mean, Scotland, V.I. Recoast, in Liverpool, it's good combo. And yeah, I think it's a bit harsh getting booed. Japan are quite good, aren't they? Good care at least. So what does Scotland expect? Well, we'll see Hanagal on Tuesday night and whether it's greeted by cheers or booze. I also am friendly news. Senegal, Parede, the Afcon Trope, you're headed there friendly against Peru, despite being stripped of the title. Tom, you enjoying Rubber Nacking on all this silliness? I mean, it is grimly fascinating. And I was going to say that everyone involved is basically just holding their breath until the court of arbitration for sport rules on who has actually won the Afcon Cup of Nations. But I don't think that will make all that much difference anyway. Like the fact that it was stripped from Senegal so long after the tournament was fast in and of itself, and any subsequent decisions are only just going to add to the fast. I think everyone who witnessed what happened, anyone who paid any attention to the tournament will remember that Senegal won it on the pitch, that they got the trophy, that they had the party. And even if Morocco do go down in the history books as African champions, it will feel hollow for them. I think it will feel hollow for everyone else. And in the meantime, yeah, you just get extraordinary scenes out of the ones that we saw, you know, prior to the game against Peru and a country celebrates a success that theoretically, you know, never actually happened. The Caff General Secretary has resigned amid the controversy trying to cover it as retiring, sort of tiring talking about it, Duncan, in a way, is now I think we just should we just say that Senegal wouldn't and just ignore the last couple of weeks of discourse. Well, I've got a lot of respect for Swiss-based bureaucrats. So, you know, as a cycling fan, I've got plenty of experience of casts stepping in to decide stuff. But yeah, I mean, clearly, Senegal, are the people's winners. There were some fun scorelines elsewhere, friendly wise. Seven goal through a little between Switzerland and Germany. Four-three, it finished to Germany. Great goal from Florian Vierts in that one. Austria, Beat Nigeria, Five-One, Karne Choukwemecker, scored on his debut after switching his international allegiance. So, in France, Beat Columbia, three-one in Maryland on Sunday, afternoon, Deseret Duet, with a brace. Anything much to learn, Tom? French-wise from wins against Columbia and Brazil? The main takeaway from this international breaker is that France are very good. I think we knew that already. But they put out a completely different starting 11 against Columbia compared to the one that started the game against Brazil. And in some ways, looked even better. I think a big challenge for Didier Deschant in the build-up to the World Cup has been to make France a proper attacking team, which we know is not really one of his strong points. Because if you go back to Euro 2024, yes, France reached the semi-finals, but they did it having scored one solitary goal in open play and having relied an awful lot on penalties and own goals. And we know that the talent pool that France are able to pick on in attacking areas is terrifyingly deep. And that made what happened at the last Euro's even more puzzling. Now, when you watch France, they look a lot more like the sum of their parts. And the key decision that Deschant was made has been to shift the system to a 4-2-3-1 to put Michael Elyse at number 10. It'll be Kylian Bappe, Kylian Bappe at top. And surprisingly, you swan down ballet on the right. And that is a bit of a battle for the one remaining slot on the left wing. Hugo Ecutike was really impressive against Brazil. scored a beautifully taken goal. Dovetail very nicely with Mbappe. So he is staking a very strong claim to be a starter. But the Zero Duet is another candidate. Marcus Touham could start there as well. Doey scored a couple of goals against Columbia last night. And he was lining up alongside Ryan Shacki, who was the understudied to Michael Elyse. Magnus Acquilluch, who was the understudied to D'Ambelle, who was brilliant. And with Touham up top. And Touham was brilliant, scored the second goal, set up the third. And France still look a little bit flaky defensively. But they look much more menacing in attack in a way that, when you look at the names on paper, they should. But the only other thing to add is that Maxon Slecquil, of Crystal Palace, made his first international star. Having been brought into the squad after William Celeba dropped out through injury, another rastole with D'Auril. And he was extremely good. Got an eight out of ten from Le Keep, which is pretty much as good as it gets. And the feeling is that he, you know, if there are any with D'Auril's higher up, the centre back food chain, he's now best placed to profit from that. Yeah, I watched the Brazil France game and Tom's right, they did look very good. Mike O'Leasey looked in ridiculously good. So, you know, the former Redding Winger. But the other thing that was really noticeable from that game was the cooling break. The sponsor cooling breaks was my first experience. And I mean, it slightly hilarious that it was about 11 degrees Celsius. So not sure much cooling was required. But it was, yeah, they were sponsored by different things in each half, which, and it really did break up the game. And they didn't really add any time on for it as well. So the first half had, I think, two or three minutes of stoppage time. And the cooling break took at least three or four minutes. It's like a classic sort of like FIFA facilitated, modern football thing. A s*** idea that no one asked for, that no one wants, that makes the thing that you're watching, whether you're a fan or a TV spectator, worse, that is totally pointless. And yet, I just been introduced with anyone getting a say. And we'll probably end up just being introduced to all football for the rest of time. So, thanks, Infantina. We're going to blame him even if he's, I mean, you know, ultimately the box-op side doesn't have that sort of thing. Well, while we're state-sided talking, friendlies, why don't we check in with the US MNT next? You're listening to the Totally Football Show now with you four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious technicolor on YouTube at the Totally Show. [Cheering] He's got a second. Belgium have a fifth pair at Lancer. US MNT time. Felipe Cardenius joins us from Atlanta. Felipe Maurizio Pocicino's team beaten five two by Belgium on Saturday evening, or were they? If you watched it with the sound off, you might have struggled to make out which team was which. That kick clash was quite something. It was, and it was funny because when the teams came out in their anthem kits, their anthem jackets, you know, it just looked like we're getting ready for a traditional friendly match, and as soon as they ripped off their anthem jackets and ran onto the pitch, some of them sprinting to get informed before the kickoff, everyone in the press box looked at each other like, "What is going on?" Like, there's a complete clash here. And so that became the story of the first half, and it completely overshadowed probably the best first half of football for the US MNNT team under Maurizio Pocicino. It was crazy that that became such a much more of a story than the football. But yes, you know, you step back and you realize that sometimes even adults can make mistakes that kids don't make these days. Everyone takes their second kit to their match, even in junior football. So yeah, that was a bit of an embarrassment for both federations. So if the first half was good then, what on earth happened after half time? And was it a bit of a reality check for Maurizio Pocicino's team? It was, and Pocicino mentioned he used that exact phrase in his post-game comments to the press. It was a reality check. You know, I think for him, you know, having said before the game in a separate interview that the goal for this US team was to go to the semifinal of the next World Cup and then being completely, you know, dominated in that second half in front of a very partisan home crowd in Atlanta, you know, a market here that really wants to embrace the US national team. It was a very, very deflating loss. And I think what happened, you know, the first half was very good for Maurizio Pocicino, I think tactically he understood that the Belgians were going to play with a very high line and they did, and that allowed Anthony Robinson and Timothy Wea both playing as both left back and right back to just streak up the field. And it really was working and it led to the corner kick that then was the McKinney converted to give the US 1-0 advantage. But it didn't take very long for the Belgians to equalize. And then the second half, the tactics, I think, Belgium, you know, Rudy Garcia, the manager really adjusted. He went into a mid block and then he just told his dynamic winger Ducu to just go out there and harass Timothy Wea, 1v1 and he did it relentlessly. And I think tactically and then from an individual quality perspective, you really did see the disparity there between the two sides. semi-finals might be optimistic. What do you think would be a realistic placing for the USA at the woke up? I think it's more of a quarter final birth. You know, this team is talented, but they're not what I think some of the truly die hard US fans believe they are. You know, a team of players that yes or are now fully, you know, they play to World Cup. They are mostly European based. You know, that gets this fan base really excited. But you forget what a World Cup is all about. It's faster. It's more athletic. These teams are just as good from an individual perspective. If not better from some of the best players that the US has, you know, man for man. And now with this 5-2 loss and Portugal coming up, there's a lot of doubt like about this. Can this team really make a run? I think the World Cup is a totally different animal, you know, with a host nation. And I really do think that that's going to be an advantage for the US. But it's not going to be just a walk through in this group stage. I still think that Paraguay opener in Los Angeles is really tricky. And obviously we're waiting to see if, if you know, who gets through as that as a fourth team, whether it looks like it could be Turkey, they seem the stronger side in this playoff. But that'll complicate things for the US as well. All right. Before we let you go then, Philippe, just tell us how does the thermometer read in terms of World Cup fever in the US just now? It's been a fairly tumultuous buildup in various regards. Are people generally excited for the tournament starting? I think this match window has turned the volume up a little bit on what is coming the summer. But you know, I had a conversation yesterday with somebody, you know, a producer at another outlet. She asked me the same thing. And I said, I think the American market is always slow to embrace an international event, even one that they're going to host. And right now that's still what it feels like. I think from a football perspective, yes, this this FIFA window makes it feel more important. You know, there's a lot more international press here covering the United States. And obviously Belgium and Portugal just sort of ups the ante in terms of opposition. But But it doesn't feel like the country's buzzing yet for this World Cup. It will feel like that, I believe, come end of May and June, because this country, that's what this country does. As soon as the lights turn on and they're the brightest, they really do deliver in terms of organization. But right now it just feels like this US team. And when you lose like this, it does, like I said, as a bit deflating, but the US market is just waiting for June, I think, for this World Cup. Yep. It'll come around pretty quickly. I'm sure. Philippe, thank you so much for joining us today. We'll catch up with you again soon. Any time, have a great one, Taker. All right, then, Tuesday, who's going to be punching their metaphorical ticket to the World Cup and who's going to be making alternative plans for the summer? Headline Act for many European wise Bosnia and Herzegovina versus Italy, both fresh from breaking home nation hearts, eliminating whales and Northern Ireland as they did on Thursday. Are you okay to talk about this now, Tom? Yeah, go on. Who'd you make his favourites? I mean, I think it has to be Italy. I think the fact that they won their semi-final in such convincing fashion suggests that they are in the midst of putting their World Cup qualification playoff ghosts to rest. Then again, the fact that it's in Bosnia that you'll have all the usual difficulties at that kind of fixture tends to throw up, hostile crowd, etc., etc., and your Bosnia were very solid against whales. They were quite happy not to have the ball. They sat pretty deep in a 4-4-2 structure defensively. But I think that's the only way to get the ball out of the way. I think that's Italy. I can just see Italy's heads going. I didn't think they were great against Northern Ireland. They did enough, but first half they were really poor. It's just that Northern Ireland didn't really have enough to trouble them. If Bosnia have got enough to trouble them, then maybe. And then in Jacqueo is obviously still this beer had 40 years old, ridiculous that he's still going and doing what he does. So there is a very good, kind of really nice narrative there. I suspect it'll go through, but I think maybe Italy on pens or Italy on extra time maybe. Obviously the Italian players celebrated Bosnia winning the shootout against Wales. So they obviously fancied it, but can you pin a video on a wall, but maybe that will happen. What does the World Cup need more? A 40-year-old, pale-ish striker struggling in the sun of the USA or the Italian national anthem? Speaking as a 40-ish, something guy who's probably going to struggle a bit in the sun, I quite like the thought that there's going to be someone doing that out on the pitch. I think that would make it as all feel good about ourselves. I think for a neutral perspective, this, you know, "Haha Italy" thing has probably gone on long enough. We could do with them being back in the tournament, but you know, got to go and prove you're good enough. You surely do. Meanwhile over in Path D, Czech Republic or Czechia, depending on your preference versus Plano, they're unbeaten against the Czechs since a 3-0 defeat at Euro 2004. They're great at home as well. I'm beating in 17 matches and actually Duncan, this is a bit like the Italy Bosnia game, and you look at it and think if you get through this game, you might have a decent chance of having a good run in the World Cup. They're going to a group containing Mexico, South Africa and South Korea. South Korea obviously got a bit of World Cup heritage and Mexico as a host, but still you might fancy Czech Republic or Denmark to be able to squeeze past it into the knockout. Yeah, particularly with the three teams going through from the group as well. So yeah, I mean Czech Republic took a while to wake up, didn't they against Ireland? But as you say, their home record is really good. But I mean, Denmark should have won their group. I should be there already. So I think this is the hardest one to call of the four, and possibly could be the most entertaining games as well. Both these teams would expect a bit of World Cup, so it's not like a sort of Bosnia or a Kosovo or a whale situation where you know, it's just a dream. It's very much like we should be there, but this is their last chance. They're all, all the way phones are pretty hard to call, right? That's sort of the point, I guess. Yeah, and I think, you know, there's lots to dislike about the expansion of the World Cup, the fact that it's now a 48 team tournament, which you know, that's face it, will only serve to dilute the quality and leave as waiting for a sort of high quality matchups longer than you would have to wait, ordinarily at a World Cup. But the fact that the qualifying process is still thrown up, these very evenly matched playoff parties between lots of, you know, lots of really decent teams suggest that the balance perhaps hasn't been completely skewed by the fact that it's an expanded tournament. A Sweden against Poland in path B, more personally, the magnificently moniker strawberry arena. I should turn the West Ham fan back in September that Graham Potter would be 90 minutes away in the World Cup. It really is a funny old game. Potter Sweden's stand out qualifying. They're now just a pole vaulting away from the finals, though Daniel Jokeres and Leventowski both scored in the semi-savreductive, am I being by asking if this is just about which of the pair packs they're shooting boots? Having watched Poland over the last 15 to 20 years at major tournaments, it's pretty much always been about Leventowski and I suspect that will continue. Jokeres scored a hat trick in the semi-final, but in general, you know, I watched that game and Sweden looked really, really good. I don't know exactly what Potter's changed, but speaking to someone after the game, they said the whole mood of the team just feels completely different. That qualifying group was such a disaster that it ending and still leaving them with a shot at something because of the nation's league. They'd sort of completely turn focus on these playoffs now and they looked absolutely ready for it. They looked like they've been preparing it for a long time. I think they'll beat Poland. Poland just, yeah, they'll just look a bit one-dimensional when I've seen them as a say for a long, long time. And yeah, I think Sweden will do this. Fair play to Grand Potter. You know, it was an interesting job to take. He took it on a really short-term basis and then they offered him longer. If he takes Sweden to the World Cup, they have got the tools within that squad, particularly in the attacking sense. If it has injuries, that gets himself fit. It's quite easy to see them. They're going to be like the turkey, aren't they? They're going to be like the dark horse. Everybody calls a dark horse until they eventually do nothing and everyone tries to forget that they predicted their dark horse. Rich USA heritage at World Cup as well, Sweden, of course. Duncan, everything was better in the old days and third place in 1994. Many, many happy memories of you. You bro-lings, you darlings, etc. Yeah, what an era that was. I preferred their performance in USA Nightfall to Year 92. Where? Yeah, upset my young mind. Lowell. The final UEFA playoff is Kosovo against Turkey. Turkey can reach the finals for just the third time or Kosovo Cup market, decade of being a FIFA force by making it onto the grandest stage of the more for the first time ever. Again, sort of difficult to pick a favourite for this one. So, is there a team you'd rather see in Canada, the USA and Mexico? Kosovo bring the intrigue, Turkey bring the noise? Kosovo is a great story. Like you say, 10 years after becoming an independent football nation and they go into this off the back of that incredible, was it 4-3 win over Slovakia away from home in their playoff semi-final. But there's so much talent in this Turkey team. You look at the players in that lineup, Arda Gula, Kenan Yildiz. You feel like they could potentially do something really special. And I think if they do qualify, they will be right in the mix for Dark Horse chant as they always are. And it wouldn't be a major tournament if people weren't tipping Turkey to be the Dark Horse. It's only for them to be immediately eliminated. So that's another reason to get behind the Turks. Although for Kosovo, obviously they're going to group with USA and Australia. They got a good Dark Horse potential as well. Yeah, but also I imagine Americans and Australians would pronounce Kosovo in quite different ways. Kosovo. So I'm looking forward to that if I happen. You got a Dark Horse Daniel as it stands at the moment that there's not in the usual pack. Dark Horse wook at that. That feels like putting me on the spot. I will say my Dark Horse is Rolls of Dice and picks out Columbia. Nice. I have to say, in preparation for the podcast, I was just looking through some World Cup stuff. I can't believe that France are longer odds to win it than England. I mean, having not just because of recency bias in the past week, but also most of my life. You look at the two attacks that, I mean, Tom knows it, but the two attacks that France picks the other night in different halves. They just blew my mind that they're not favorites for the World Cup. England started a Dominic and replaced him with a Dominic, so I don't know what you're talking about, well, I don't know. Turn off the France down there. France, I longer have a Dominic, so yeah, maybe they should be heavier, if they. To continental playoffs, Bolivia against Iraq, Iraq have only ever been to the World Cup once. Bolivia looking to reach their fourth. Also, Jamaica against DR Congo on Tuesday night. I'm confused about this, don't go, why didn't Steve McLaren stick around for this? I thought he left because he thought they had no chance. Is he that high on DR Congo and that low on the reggae, boys? Yeah, it's slightly confusing, but he, I think he just, you know, he fell on his sword, maybe for the, for the greater good. Not on his umbrella. Well, in, in many ways, he's become a human umbrella for Jamaica's chances of reaching the World Cup. Come up one with the device. Beautiful. We'll round up, of course, everything that happens in those various World Cup playoffs. On Thursday show, engine boat will be back in the hot seat. And now that nearly done elsewhere, a new survey has revealed that three out of four fans want VR to be scrapped. 92% of fans surveyed agreed that VR has removed the spontaneous joy of goal celebrations. 82% of them strongly agreed. 85% of match going fans strongly disagreed that the VR decisions are generally resolved in a reasonable amount of time. Daniel, big element of tell us something we didn't know about this and it's going to matter not as it in the grand scheme of things. It's, it's here to stay. No, yeah, Pandora's Box VR is, from the moment it started, it was only ever going to grow and if we can stop it spread, then we can consider that a minus success in a sea of defeats. And yeah, I mean, I want to speak to the 8% of people who don't think it affects their celebration of a goal when it's there. Like, I want your confidence. I want your lack of self-doubt. Like, these are people who celebrate goals without looking towards the lines when back in the day to see if there's an off-ide side flag. And I am jealous of them. But it is, I mean, I do suspect the survey of, you know, if you're someone who answers that survey about VR, you're probably more likely to wear on the side of being angry than answering it saying, yeah, I actually think it's all right. But it's clear, you know, you just have to take a sample size of everyone you've ever met and take ten of them who like football and at least eight or nine of them will say, I don't like that. I didn't want it introduced and I don't want it to grow. As I say, if we avoid the corners and the, you know, second yellows and all that stuff, then we should consider that a small bit to me. I came back to France Columbia. It feels like a great opportunity for FIFA to get a sponsored VR break or two into the World Cup. I mean, I'm sure those discussions are taking places we speak. But yeah, I agree with Daniel. I agree with the size and majority of respondents to that. So the difficulty now, of course, if we were to bin VR, which we obviously should do, we'd be getting the genie back in the bottle. And there are certain things that I think, I think even fans who are desperate to bin it off would, would struggle with the reversion to a pre-VRH because, you know, there are things we've got used. I mean, off sides, for example, off sides are now more accurate than they've ever been because the decisions being made by a robot rather than a human being. If you could make that more, if you could make that quicker, if you could speed it up, and I've been in favour of retaining that. But yeah, I think that for me, the biggest tragedy of the AR has been the fact that, you know, goals no longer have any sense of permanence. It used to be the ultimate full stop to every sentence, every football match. The goal is at the borders in the back of the net. And if the flag doesn't go up and the referee doesn't blow his whistle, the goal just stands. Whereas now. Yeah, but the flag does go up. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You would have a period of a few seconds grace during which time a goal could potentially be ruled out, but invariably, it wasn't. Whereas these days, goals are perfectly valid looking goals. Get ruled out quite routinely because something has happened that no one has noticed 15, 20, 30 seconds before the ball ended up in the back of the net. And it is counter-arrived. And counter-argument. You sometimes get to celebrate those twice. You never used to really get. That's not a counter-argument. You never used to be able to do that. That doesn't make up for the fact that you celebrate it. Yeah, we just got to go. Oh, we're just checking it. I think it's probably going to be fine. They're checking it. Oh, that's. yep, they're still checking it. Oh, it is fine. Yeah, we celebrate it again. That's not easy to keep trying. Extra joy. That's like. Duncan, that's like. That's like starting Christmas dinner the best meal of the year. They're going out for a walk for an hour, coming back, eating the rest of it cold and being like, "Two Christmas dinners, winner." That's not really like that, is it? Not really, no. One place they don't have VAR is a WSL. Big weekend there. Man of the city moved a step closer to clinching the size of the beat man United three-nil at Old Trafford Arsenal. Also, the proud owner of bragging rights, they haven't spurs five to the Emirates. That was on Saturday as well as Liverpool's Derby victory there, one, three, two, everton. That was a four-three for the. At Kingsmeadow on Sunday afternoon and a bit of history as well. Duncan needed like this between Chelsea and Asdenville of the first game in the WSL to have both teams score three times in the first half. There was only one goal in the second. The Schicken-Nuskin curling in the winner in the 82nd minute. And that is just about that for today. Thank you to Dan and for Leap paper joining us earlier to Lucy and to Jake in the Booth and producer Javi. And of course Tom, Daniel and Duncan Jimba back on Thursday for now though. It's Tata. You've been listening to the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network for other great podcasts just like this one, including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts search for the Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at the Totally Show on Insta and at the Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.