Iran War Oil Shock, Anthropic Sues, and Market Wipeout Warning

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Vogue writes Nathan Lane and Laurie Metcalf are our foremost theater actors, Christopher Abbott and Ben Allers represent the thrilling potential of a new generation CU at the theater. Now in previews on Broadway at the Winter Garden Theatre. It's always late. Literally. I'm like so quantumly more important than he is. It's crazy. Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Karris Wisher. I'm Scott Galilee. Scott, do we have a good time in Minneapolis? Oh that was wonderful and thank you to the wonderful people of Minneapolis. I thought it was great. The community or maybe we got a not a representative sample. I like the big out of representative. The community seems very unified right now. Yeah, absolutely. People drove from North Dakota. There was some-- The loose to whoever that is. Or Iowa. We had a lawyer from Iowa come. Yeah, judge. Although I shut out. We know who you are. There's this wonderful woman who's a lawyer and family court. She's a community seven hours a week and she said that. She said, "Jah, yeah." And she said, "Where are her best friends?" Yeah, yeah. It was great. And people were great. The audience was great. Again, we had to thank Teen Danger raised a whole pile of money, which Scott matched, which was very generous of Scott. And it's going to be-- Or virtue signaling. Yeah, that's okay. This is the Scott I like. This is the direction. It was-- This is the way. This is the way. We had a great time and the audience was great. We had a great show. We talked to Governor Walls who looks amazing. Very handsome. As he's leaving. That's the key. That's the key. That's so much better when they leave things. You know what I mean? Or they're on ozampic. That's what-- That's why we're descending into fascism because Tim Walls should have gone on a gov nine months or 14 months earlier. That's the difference between us and fascism. Okay. A GLP one. A decision. Folks, if you're considering running for Vice President and you're thinking about a GLP one, get on it. The word is now. The word is yesterday. Anyway, he looks great. We have no idea if he is. Let's just be saying that. But he does-- Come on. Okay, fine. The guy who showed up-- Yes, he was very-- The guy who showed up looked like the old Tim Walls could eat him. That is true. But let me tell you something. He's running, too. He said, told me he was running. And it goes along with it. It's a whole life set. They're always running. They're always running for everything. They're talking about-- No, no. I mean, it's absolutely running. Yes, he told me about his run. Actually, you know, I started running again. So we had a little cheaty chat. I can't-- The idea of you out of running-- I don't go outside. I don't go outside. I say inside. I don't like running outside. Are you doing the-- You doing the treadmill? Yeah, I love it. I use my little time for myself. It's my little carat time. I love it. I do it three or four times a week. It's really-- and actually, now, in hotels, they have to have a nice treadmill. That's it. That's the way it goes. That's why I'm abandoning your apartment. Anyway, are you doing OK? You're in New York. We're headed to South by Southwest, right? We've got a lot going on. We've got a live pivot. I've got a bunch of things. Prof. G has a bunch of things. I'm trying to think what else we're doing. Oh, we're launching my show's trailer goes up today for Carouswisher once lived here. You don't have a show. It's funny. You haven't talked much about that. You haven't mentioned it. Yeah. It's the secret show. It's not so secret. Anyway, Scott is in it. And we're going to be debuting the part with Scott in at South by Southwest, where we go to a sound bath essentially. But it comes out today, the trailer. So I'm very excited. And we're going to show it off. We guest appearance from David Ellison. The new King of Hollywood. What did he came up to us? What did we say? We'd say, hi. We kiss his ass. He's very powerful. And we don't kiss his ass. He's very aware. We're very critical of him, you know, but whatever. I don't care. I don't care. Doesn't matter. Anyway, we'll be nice to you. I'll see you on Sunday, because I'm going to that big fancy party. Which, oh, yes, you are. Oh, go up to him. And I dare you to go up to him and give like a full like penis on penis hug. Could you do that? So I'm going to hug her. I don't know if you've noticed that. Yeah, I'm going to say that. I try. You're like Alex the way. Yeah, Alex's side way hug. No. Sorry, I will dare you to do something really funny. Unless I'm giving you $300 and you're doing more than a hug. And you don't touch me. Do not touch me. Anyway, you're going to have a good time at that. That's a lie. It's a lot more than $100, $300. I'm excited. It's going to be great. Telleriko, we maybe we'll run into him. So I don't know if you heard this. I'm pulling a total care move. I'm interviewing him on stage with just Tarla of it, Raging Maharashtra. Oh, my God. That's great. Oh, I'm going to come watch that. That's great. I'm so excited. The Cassidy, which is a new, very hysterical Silicon Valley, dang in the style of Silicon Valley. Do you have any questions or, telleriko, for me, my first question is going to be, if Mary gave birth to Jesus, and Jesus is the Lamb of God, then didn't Mary have a little lamb? Little dad, Jeff, I can't go dirty with representative of the Talleriko. I like that one. That's good. That's a good one. He'll laugh. He'll go. Oh. It's kind of a young foggy in my estimation. He feels like older, even though he looks like he's 12, that kind of thing. I think what people at home need to take a shot every time he says the billionaire class. Yes. Okay. You should do that. One of my definite questions. I'm not going to find it well. I'm going to start off with, he and I have something in common, and that is we both follow hot women on Instagram. His thoughts. Okay. All right. We're moving on. Sorry, James. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. I'm going to dig in. First, the Warren Iran is sending oil prices on a wild ride this week and creating what the international energy agency says is, quote, "the largest supply disruption in the history of the global oil market." Okay. That's kind of something. As of this recording, oil is still very high, slowly coming down from over $100 a barrel after ships were attacked in the Persian Gulf. There's also the tax still going on. Gas prices continue to climb as well. And just remember, it's not just gas prices. Every price goes up when gas goes up. The IEAs, 32 member countries, are releasing a record, 400 million barrels of oil from strategic reserves to counter the chaos, which means we aren't going to feel this yet. I interviewed Senator Warner yesterday and he was noting that. Trump has tried to calm market, so he keeps trying to do this to bring these oil prices down by words, saying the war is, quote, "very complete." Only to later announce, we haven't won enough. Oil prices also plunged after energy secretary Chris Wright incorrectly posted that U.S. maybe had escorted a tanker through the straight-up hormones. So that was a problem. The post was deleted within minutes. It was enough to move markets and wipe out million-dollar trades. This is such a taco. This is the greatest taco of all, I think. And even if the war in Iran and soon returning the straight-up her moves to typical traffic could take one to three months. We're going to see reverberations of this ridiculous situation of the way he's handling it and the way he's not. It seems all over the place. And also to add to the kind of mess there, the initial findings of a military investigation say that U.S. was responsible for that deadly Tomahawk missile strike on the Iranian elementary school. It's actually causing a lot of strife within MAGA, by the way, and everywhere else, normal people and MAGA. The report notes officers likely used outdated information to label the school as a military target. Trump has tried to put the blame on Iran earlier this week claiming they also have the Tomahawks, which everyone thought was ridiculous. When asked about the military report on Wednesday, Trump said he knew nothing about it. We'll get to the photography scandal of Pentagon, but talk a little bit about what's going on with oil prices and this school, which is just, I feel like we should take responsibility when we make an error. Such a terrible error. But go ahead. I'm going to reverse order. When you're handling a crisis, and this is a crisis, the death of civilian, especially children, is obviously pretty ugly. You acknowledge the issue. You take responsibility. You're trying to overcorrect. And they've done nothing of the sort. And there is in a war, and this is a war. This isn't military action. This is a war. There's more to be. An excursion. The war he's using now. It's an excursion. Whatever that means, excursion. I went on a bike excursion. I got free old trip. Yeah. Exactly. My daughter went on an excursion. Except he didn't get calm. This is approval the day before that he could go on the excursion. Look, this is, you know, it's a tragedy. They just made a bad situation worse. they look incompetent by saying that it might have been a Tomahawk from a ront. A ront doesn't have Tomahawk. So it looks like, okay, I'm not willing to own up to this. I mean, there's not a good answer, but there's a reasonable answer here. And that is. We're sorry. Yeah, we decided to go on with military action. This is a group of people who killed 30,000 of its own people. War is going to have collateral damage. We screwed up. We take responsibility. These are the following steps we're putting in place to make sure it doesn't happen again. And take responsibility for it, and it would have been not over, but it would have been acceptable. Instead, it's like, no, it was a wrongs vote. It just doesn't. Or I didn't know. Yeah. Oh, excess was the same way. It was angry when people asked about it, which is everything wrong in the response and everything wrong in the mistake, but you're right, absolutely. Yeah. And the real. I mean, we're just starting to see. But I was speaking to a kid, and I said, what. You know, where do you want to be in five years? I was asked, do you have a man that? Where do you want to be in five years? And this kid said, I'd really love to have my own Ottawa Parishop focusing on EVs. And I said, okay, well, then let's reverse engineer from those things. Like, what kind of skills do you need to acquire? What kind of job certification? What kind of capital or money would you need to start something like this? Have a business plan? What kind of real estate would you need? What would be. Let's reverse engineer everything. You need basics, right? Let's reverse everything, engineer everything to today around what you would need to be an owner of an EV repair shop in. He lives in the elsewhere, it's all a sandalus. Just the love of a young kid. Anyways, we can't even reverse engineer the tactics because I don't think anyone is really clear yet on what the end game is, what the end goal is. And that is, if they had said, all right, we're going to diminish their launch capability for missiles, makes all the sense in the world. It's more about the launchers and the missiles because you can bury the missiles under a brand. These are ballistic missiles for people who don't know. We are going to make sure that the Straits of Hormuz are more secure than they were previous to this. And we're going to work with our Gulf Allies to create a series of minesweepers and enforce the border. I mean, and we're going to take out the Navy and we're going to take out the munitions infrastructure that builds this stuff. These are the three boxes we need to check. Can I interject? Since I just interviewed Warner about this, one of the things that they've talked about is going in and getting the enriched uranium, but that would actually be, would take as they say boots on the ground and it would be terrible. Not viable. Not feasible. Not feasible. Unless we want a lot of Americans to die. Yeah, as is quite frankly, as is regime change. I mean, this regime is sticking pretty strongly. Oh, they're not collapsing. Yeah. No, I think Calci had the likelihood of regime change at like 10% by the end of March or something like that right now. Anyways, but instead we don't, it's like, okay, and more, you always have to have plans A prime and plan B because the enemy gets to say in this, but the problem is no one can identify plan A. No, they ate it. They, the dog ate my homework. Can I skip that oil prices because they think that's something that's going to, people don't recognize and the idea of trying to calm the market by releasing incorrect information, letting it go, you know, whipsaw all over the place. And this release of these 400 million barrels is going to have repercussions later because that's when the prices will go up these strategic reserves. And what they're trying to do, everything possible to pretend we're not going to have a real crisis between the straight of hormones and this release. And so it has second order problems. Now Wall Street sort of sloughing an awful little bit, but these are prices that are going to reverberate through the system as you have noted. Oh, I, so like the biggest loser here is obviously the people of Iran who are in the wrong place at the wrong time, right? There is no bigger loser than the families who lose loved ones. I also think the reputation of the US and what was an opportunity to create much stronger alliances with modern nations in the Gulf. So big losers. But what people aren't talking about, the countries that import more than 50% of their oil, Japan, South Korea, India and most of Europe have seen their markets hammered. Absolutely hammered. Poor countries with no foreign exchange reserves and dollar denominated debt can't, you know, are it could be thrust into the IMF or effectively what is bankruptcy? Airlines and hospitality come is all over the world. Shipping the bunker. Can I point out one or said he's been meeting with airline executives and they said they're fine for now, but it's going to be $25 million a day extra. I mean, nations who import their oil, especially who get most of it through the straights of hormones, their economy, basically their economies are like fuck for the year at a minimum. So this is having, you know, we have obviously the biggest losers by body counter Iran, by economic collapse, Middle Eastern oil importers, Jordan Levin on Egypt and fragile emerging markets, Pakistan. Yes, he's doing great. Russia. Yeah. This gives him the, he was really on the, on the ropes around the million, the million people who have died and also the price of oil. And now he has more money to spend while we ignored help from the Ukrainians on drones. And one of the things Warner was pointing out was that fine, we could take out their battleships but their real problems, all those small fastboats and their drones. They could just do all manner of damage to us in that with these small $50,000 drones and we use a million dollar rocket to take it out. I mean, this is the problem is they have an ability to do this and they've been, they're, you know, the way Warner described it, this country is hard, is, is hard enforced like hard, the hard wired. This is not, then as well, this is Trump lives like he's in some movie where you just do three bombs and that's the end of it. But this is a hard wired 150,000 people in this, in this ruling group in Iran and they're not giving up all this money and all this power for, I don't know, it's, it's a really difficult situation, which they didn't think out. But just thinking about the market, the winners and losers, the hardest at stock markets are middle eastern markets. Jordan Egypt, Lebanon, their stock markets crater. There's a capital flight to safety. I mean, the ironic thing here is that over the long term, our reputation isn't touted. We're probably the least damaged because we're energy independent. We produce more energy than we consume. We have two oceans protecting us, friendly candidate in the North, harmless, harmless Mexico to the south. We still have capital inflows in a weird, I mean, it's just terrible to say, but in a weird way, our markets are probably least damaged by this. Except the cost, they'll be cost for airlines. They'll be cost for truckers. There's going to be costs for home heating. Thank goodness it's not winter, right? The dollar's already strengthened. I mean, it's ironic, but when you diminish the entire world, there's a flight to safety and flights to safety usually benefit the US. Emerging markets are going to get the shake kicked out of them. India, Brazil, South Africa, Mexico, capital flowing out to the US dollar for safe havens. The US will likely be down 8 to 10% on a tariff ruling or was down, but it could be down another 10 to 15%. That'll be, I'll talk more about that in our prediction. But you're going to have a pretty big take to trough, but some of that might just be the air coming out of the bubble. But to your point, the least damaged in the Middle East or Saudi Arabia in the UAE, but the big winner here is you said is Russia. The oil price spike benefits them. The US is distracted by a rancid more Ukraine leverage. And oddly, the rubble strengthens. So war is literally the agent of unintended consequences. And this is so frustrating because if this had been more like 4-0 and less like a rock and they'd set out a series of achievable objectives, this could have been a win. It could have been the Gulf States coming together and if they'd said look to a couple European nations and to the Gulf States, a stable Middle East benefits all of us. Let's all have a series of objectives. And we're going to pay for and execute against most of this. We could have strengthened our alliances. We've been dragged around by Israel here in a lot of ways. It looks like it. Let me see. I disagree. I think we're very tightly coordinated with Israel right now. I talked to Warner who was in the gang of eight. I'm going to go with him over you. I'm sorry to say that. But you know, I think it was that they were going to attack. We went over the summit over Skype. Yes. I think they were going to attack and we decided to be the senior partner. Like that's rather than create something else because. And what do you mean Iran was going to attack Israel? Israel is attacked. No, no. Israel was going to attack Iran. I mean, that's the implication he had. And Senator Warner feels like we did not have the power to say stop. Well, he doesn't know why we didn't. That was one of his questions. He's surprised. He seemed more worried. He's usually not a worry ward, but he seems worried about two things. How this was conducted, obviously. And what the real implications are, especially around drones and small boats that could do enormous damage to our battleships and everything else. And also election security. One of the the weird parts is how the administration has behaved. Donald Trump was dancing last night or golfing and stuff like that. So the visuals aren't very good. The defense department has now barred press photographers from Iran briefings after publishing photos that Hegses staff found, quote, "unflattering" according to the Washington Post. Hegses vanity aside. It's just that they just look like he looks like a fatuous pop and J at all times. But in this case, the lack of seriousness about something that's very serious seems problematic. And it's also causing problems within their own group of mega. There's a real chef. There's a real like Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, MTG on one side. And then, you know, Mark Levin, Ben Shapiro, all this is a real ugly and I went over, I wandered over to Twitter, which I shouldn't have done. And the nastiness between them is really quite something. It's really quite something to watch. Like imagery is so incredibly powerful. They're basically, I think one photograph brought and didn't bring an end to the Vietnam War, but expedited it. And it's that, it's that incredibly dramatic photo of the young girl running from an A-POM bombing. And with the Iraq War, George Bush and the Pentagon, they banned photos of service member coffins because he realized war's so ugly that, that they will lose support in the notion that these guys can't handle the images of Pete Hegseth and an unflattering. I mean, it's just, it shows you're spending, you're allocating your capital in the wrong places. That's not, that's not what you should be thinking about or worried about. And if you think you can control the imagery of Pete Hegseth, well, okay, just wait. You see the images that are going to come out of Iran. And you can already see that the IRGC is quite frankly organizing again and going on an information campaign. They are and they've been very good. Iran in general has been one of the stronger players in those spaces in terms of propaganda and everything else. And so, well, would you say good, you mean effective? I mean, they lie like there's no more. Yes, of course, but hello, lots of people, there are lots of governments do. Oh, I don't know. I think Iran takes it to a new level. They do, but they are, when I say good, is there good at it? They're very, they're all throughout all the various social networks. They're very, they did one the other day, which I was sort of fascinated by where they put up your president as a pedophile, which was interesting. They just, they've been at it for a long, long time. And they have used it often when there's stuff that pops up online. It's either Russia or Iran. China to an extent too, but really Iran has used social media as one of the smaller, I mean, it is a smaller country than Russia or less powerful. And it is used social media to its advantage in a ways that are really, of course, heinous because it's conspiracy theories. And you always find them somewhere in there at the top, everyone I've interviewed and cybersecurity are at the top in cybersecurity issues in propaganda, in conspiracy theories. And they have a very well, well, machine throughout the world doing this kind of stuff. So, well, when the actual audit of social media is done, I think we're going to find that somewhere between 10 and 40% of comments and posts on geopolitical accounts or accounts of influencers is going to have originated from either the CCP, the GRU or the RGC. Yep. Absolutely. And this is what you do. You see a piece of content and then you look at the comments to evaluate and shape your own view of that content. And when you're all gained, yeah, and it has a huge impact. You don't even recognize how much impact it has on your views of stuff because if someone says, oh, the US, the US will be able to escort ships through the Straits of Formos. I'm just using an example. And then there's just a ton of stuff saying that'll never happen. Oil prices are going to be a 200 or eight. All right. Where's that comment coming from? And unfortunately, although they could put in places to verify accounts and get rid of fake accounts and fake comments, you know, let me just go on these really sensitive pages or sensitive opinions and click on who made the comment. And it's someone with three followers. Okay. That's not a person. And the question is, why would someone be making this comment? Or what entity would have an interest in these comments? Yeah. We're going to talk about that in a little because there's a major report from the Center for countering digital hate that's really interesting around chatbots. This story is going to continue in every variations, obviously. We're going to go on a quick break. And when we come back and Theropik sues the Pentagon and Microsoft comes to Anthropics Defense. Support for this show comes from Quince. If you've ever appeared into a wardrobe and felt paralyzed by indecision, then it might be time to build a collection of pieces you don't have to think too hard about. Quince offers elevated fabrics, thoughtful design, and pricing that actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk, and organic cotton poplin. Their lightweight cotton cashmere sweaters are perfect for the changing seasons. And they work directly with top factories cutting out the cost of a middleman. 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Just go to Indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's Indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do it the right way with Indeed. Scott, we're back with more news. The White House is reportedly premiering an executive order to formally ban Anthropic across the federal government, which is likely illegal. The Defense Department, CTO, Amille Michael, and let me just say I covered him and he's a totalling bully. Just said on CNBC that Anthropic would quote, "pollute the agency's supply chain. We've only done this for foreign companies just so you know this kind of behavior." All this comes as Anthropic is officially suing the Pentagon for labeling a supply chain risk effectively blacklisting the company from federal contracts. This has never been done to an American company. Anthropic argues the government overstepped this authority and violated the company's first amendment rights. And now Microsoft is getting in the mix. The company through its support behind Anthropic this week urging the federal court to temporarily block the Pentagon's supply risk designation and an Amicus brief. Microsoft warned that the unprecedented move would have quote, "broad negative ramifications for the US tech industry and their dam right." Scott, before we go further, I want to play a prediction you made last week. Let's listen. My prediction is no. And that is Dario Amote has given licensed permission to CTOs to say no. And in the next 30 days you are going to see a raft of CTOs find their testicles and start saying no to this administration. So you were right Scott. So let's talk about that then saying no. It's not just Microsoft 37 AI researchers at OpenA and Google, not the companies themselves also file the briefs, supporting Anthropic. You know, I'm going to just very quickly comment this, what the government is doing here is really unprecedented. It's a disagreement with a company and instead of just disagreeing and moving on, they are attacking them in the most ridiculous ways trying to make an example of Anthropic and really hurt their business. And for you, I need you all to understand Emil Michaels' role here because these people all have other interests. and agendas that have to do with their previous life in Silicon Valley and their future life in Silicon Valley. And Emil Michael's always, as I said, been a toting bully to powerful men. And this is what he's doing here. And he's not a player that is in any way neutral. He's not doing things for you and I in this government. He's doing things in his own self-interest, if it would be my guess. And so the attacks on Anthropic right behind him is all manner of competitors of Anthropic that are using the federal government to hurt a company that decided not to want to do something. And I'm glad Microsoft stood up for them. I think this is the biggest story in tech. And so just a quick recap. Anthropic had basically two acid of panagon. And both pretty narrow. They didn't want a cloud to be used for fully autonomous weapons, meaning AI, not humans, making final lethal targeting decisions, seems reasonable. And the second one was no use of cloud for mass domestic surveillance of Americans. And the panagon responded that it does not intend to use cloud for those purposes, but refused to contractually commit to that, arguing that it can't lead tactical operations by exception. And that legality is the panagons responsibility. And then on about two and a half weeks ago, Trump posted on true social directing every federal agency to directly every federal agency to immediately seize all use of Anthropics technology. And then Hegsat designated Anthropic as a supply chain risk. Okay, that is, that's a label which has been reserved for foreign adversaries. Yeah, I just said that. And companies linked to the Chinese and Russian government. Well, I'm saying it again. All right, okay. The supply chain risk status. First off, this isn't just the government saying, okay, you don't want to work with us. We don't want to work with you. If they say if they label them as a supply chain risk, then already a hundred plus enterprise companies have reached out to Anthropic and said, we may not be able to use you. The financial services company posits negotiations regarding a $50 million contract. The pharmaceutical firm, financial technology company. I mean, they can't. This really isn't existent. When you're labeled sort of an enemy of state, this is equivalent of like you're a corporate enemy of state or threat, I'd say threat. Anthropic is now filed a lawsuit against the Pentagon saying that Congress's procurement laws don't authorize black listing a US company over protected speech. That's what this is. They get to work with or not work with who they want. The supply chain designation is just not legal and it sets a dangerous precedent for any American company. They will lose. Most people will lose. The government will lose. Yes, the government will lose. But it will still have the effect. This is a Trump thing. He creates a real problem, whether it's Anthropic. Companies will work with them until they figure it out. Then it causes damage just like they done at, you know, when they fire all a voice of America, now they've lost in court and Kerry Lake is an idiot, but it's already caused damage and caused damage to it. That's the goal is they're going to push it legally as far as they can and then they'll be stopped. By the time they're stopped, Anthropic is badly affected. If you all don't think this is a Silicon Valley rumble happening here. It's all in the self-interest of private companies who have an interest in slowing Anthropic down. Look at the links between a meal, Michael and the rest of these, these, these, these clients. They have financial interest in competitors. Just this. Yes, they do. And so this is a way that Silicon Valley, the penny, Silicon Valley used to ignore government for the most part. And then the penny drop that they're easy to pay for and that they can do their competition with each other in the federal government by pretending they're working for us as people are getting spots, putting their putting their people in the various spots, right? That will cause it. This is a Silicon Valley corporate beef happening. That is what's occurring here. The one that's been most outspoken, I'm trying to connect his financial interest, which I'm sure is driving his rhetoric as David Sacks. David Sacks, Mark Andreessen, please understand there are shadow people behind these actions that you need to pay attention to. And Trump is sort of a useful idiot. I'm sure they make fun of Trump behind his back. But it's all in their economic self interest to hurt this company and they couldn't hurt them by being better. So this is how they're doing it. This is what they're doing. It's really. But it comes out. This is the this is the folk from the determines if companies continue to show some back better. And by the way, good for such in Adela, showing some backbone here at again, risk. So Calcio is saying that anthropics, the likelihood anthropic wins the case is 72%. In the meantime, companies will say, hey, that's a lot of the license we're about to sign with you on the topic. We're just going to wait. We're apologize. This is terrible. We love you. We think you're great, but we can't. We can't sign this contract right now. To your point, Microsoft and a group of 22 retired senior military officers have filed Amicus briefs in support of anthropic and its lawsuit. But what's interesting is the consumers are speaking. The enterprises running, but consumers are running towards anthropic downloads of the cloud app, despite more than 75% after Trump prompted federal agencies to stop using anthropic. And on the flip side, uninstalls of chat GPT mobile apps spiked roughly 300%. The day after Trump's proclamation, so the question is, who wins in the mind of anthropics board here? The fear and the status that has been created in the enterprise market or consumers running towards a company they think is finally showing some backbone. I think it's damaging. I think this is such a Trump way to do this is. Create anthropics more enterprise, unfortunately. I know create chaos and damage and it's legal, but do the punch, even if it's like, I'm not a boxer, but if you do like a kidney punch, you do, you hurt the person. And then you're like, oh, did I do that? I didn't know I did that. And you use your minions. And I cannot underscore again, what a minion, Emil Michael is to do your dirty work and pretend you're working for the government. It's the whole thing is such a, this is such a fixed fight. I can't even, you need to, and I think reporters should really spend a lot of people don't know these characters. Again, this was an ex-Uber executive. He's been involved in a lot of stuff in Silicon Valley, but he had to leave Uber under, please go watch, look at our reporting on him many years ago. He had to leave Uber under very difficult circumstances around the rape of a woman in India in an Uber. Just go Google the reporters who are covering this and stop acting like Emil Michael has is this clean character. In any case, I'm sure he'll come after me, but it's true. So I went on that regard. Anyway, we're going to move on. Another thing that, again, Silicon Valley just can't stop stealing essentially. Grammarly launch an expert review AI feature that gives editing suggestions supposedly inspired by well-known writers and journalists. The first unit and discovered the tool was attributing advice to him and others even though they never agreed to participate. The feature even generated advice under the name of a certain tech journalist, Cara Swisher. They've stopped that now. They've pulled back on it, apparently, but what an incredible bunch of information and identity thieves. I don't know what to say. Anytime these people can steal, they steal. There's such shoplifters, I don't know your thoughts. Well, it goes back to this mindset and I thought one of the, I think there's looking glasses into people's souls, how they treat their pets, how they treat service staff is sort of a, you know, when is their guard down? When are there certain towels, right? And one of the towels that was really frightening when Sam Alman was asked about the energy consumption of AI, he said, what people don't take into account is the amount of energy it takes in the amount of investment and resources it takes to get a human to a point where it can make logical decisions and engage in critical thinking. He said, if you look at how much energy and input and resources it takes to raise a child such that it can get to a point where it can make decisions, AI is better. I found that so nihilistic and so inhuman because what Silicon Valley, or at least some of the individuals we talk a lot about, don't realize is it? We try and get ROI economically such that we can make low ROI investments in relationships and people we love. I'm not getting, I am not getting an ROI back from my children on any sort of economical level. Well, you use a lot of energy. I'm more wondering if we should use as much energy for you as we do. Well, but the whole point, the whole shooting match of an economy in relationships and satisfaction and purpose and some sort of spiritual sense of calm and like your life mattered is that you do engage in productive economic or domestic labor such that you can invest that in other people and you may or may not get a return. But the point is the return you get is you're so invested in something that your life has meaning. The whole point is that you create value such that you can invest that value in relationships and for most people the most rewarding place of investment. We're quite frankly, they don't get anything resembling an economic ROI is in children. And to look at it on that level is like, okay, you don't understand what it is to be a mammal or a human. And also the notion that you can spend 50 years of your life professionally working your ass off staying late, starting in the mail room at the Washington Post as you did. So that's how you have a voice or reputation, a twist of phrase, an ability to string words together that compels people to action and provides insight. And then they can come in and just adopt that 50 years or piggyback on it. That piggyback, steal it really. Is like if I type in, give me five jokes on this or give me a view on the oil price. And I put in my voice, it does a really good job because what it's doing is stealing from everything I have ever written said or done. That is correct. And so the music industry did this correctly. It said, okay, if we're a KROQ, which is awesome, the best radio station of the 90s in Los Angeles and they play a bunch of English beat or Tom Petty or Lloyd Cole in the commotions or REM, they track how much they're playing and then they send them a royalty. And what these guys want to do is they want to leverage your years, decades of discipline, schooling, certification, risk taking, time away from your family, but they don't want to pay for it. And they see everything. I mean, that's, I think, a felony, but what is double homicide from a mentality standpoint? Is it these people really look at relationships and humans on an economic basis? When I saw that, I thought, I thought this guy is not. He just had a kid. Well, I'm not going to speak to his children, but what he's going to find out. And this is a, what I tell other dads is. It was a dark comment. I don't make the mistake I made and think that right away your kid is going to be super into the shit you're into and you're going to get all these hallmark moments. Despite what insurance commercials would tell you, you're going to have to invest more in this child in every way. And that's the point, because at some point what you realize is that that over investment and other people gives you purpose and value. Let me just say they think everything is for the taking and for them. I just, this is just another example. This is what was happening at the Defense Department. Oh, we have it up on an anthropic. Oh, anything they can take, they take. And they just continue to prove, you know, they keep not meeting my low expectations for them already. And this is kind of an interesting thing. Researchers from the Center for Countering Digital Hate, which has been attacked in all that and its founder been attacked legally by Elon Musk and the federal government now in his at his behest, they're keeping going though. They don't care. Tested 10 major AI chatbots and found out eight out of 10 were willing to help plan a violent attacks like school shootings, bombings or assassinations. Researchers posed as a 13 year old boy as Thurtymbo is showing how easily miners could get guidance on weapons, locations and strategies. Many anthropics clawed and snap shots my AI consistently refused to assist in planning attacks and only clawed attempted to sway the users. Deepseek wished the user happy and safe shooting. And on that note, a lot of you have been writing in about a story in Canada earlier this year, an 18 year old government opened fire at a school in Tumbler Ridge, British Columbia, killing eight people. Let's listen to a clip from a listener. I am calling because it seems to be that there is a connection now between the shooter and chat GPT. The shooter was flagged by chat GPT several months ago regarding some of their behavior online. Chat GPT didn't report it, which is one of the reasons why I am leaving this message to see what your thoughts are on that. Open A is now being sued by the parent of the child who was injured in the shooting. As you know, I have been at this for years, especially around kids, but it has jumped into people. Most recent, one of the most recent shootings, it was, this suicide was an adult was changed by these chat bots. I cannot, let's call them chat bots, it's an adorable word for synthetic beings who are not bound by legal. If you are a lawyer and you did this, you go to jail, if you are an analyst, if you are a psychologist and you did this, you go to jail. If you were a person and you did this, you would go to jail. All of the people go to jail, they are willing to assist in violent attacks and they are not doing anything to rein it in and it's not just kids, it's everything. Again, the only one that is doing the right thing is Claude. This is Anthrop. This is the company. I'm not doing an ad for Claude here, but they have at least some, and I think they should be regulated too, but I can't tell you how incandescent I am about the way these people try to take every bit for themselves and they do not care the damage they are creating. I'm going to keep talking about this until Congress steps in and does something about it. You don't work for those rich people. You do not work for them. I'm with Jim Teleriko, enough with these people. I think it's important to draw a distinction between potentially creating some sort of psychosis that leads to self-harm or harm against others through overuse of AI or any other digital platform. I think that's a separate study that needs to be done and without the interference of the massive money and lies and owned research that these firms will do. I think this is different. I think this is whether the federal government needs to put in place laws and incentives such that if a private organization or corporation receives information that this person might be on the verge of committing an act of violence, if they have a responsibility to report it to the authorities immediately. I think they do. I'm not a privacy person. I'm not suggesting we go to a minority report where we arrest them before they've committed to crime. And my school or my school in Florida where my kids went at another school and we also shared information when I was involved with the school about these very difficult situations. A kid was drawing very disturbing images of gun violence. The school felt like it had an obligation to report it and then the FBI went to the house and the FBI said, "Are there any guns in the house?" I think that was the right thing to do. You're right. That's an exception. If you notice, there was a video that went viral on SNAP, a teacher put out a SNAP saying that she wanted to kill these kids and it immediately, the cop showed up and said, "Did you put, did you say this? Are you having any sort of mental issue right now? You need to go home and we need to understand what is going on with you and if you have access to guns before we let you back into a school." And the same is true here that if you are going to monetize this type of information and you understand it so, you can interpret it so well that you can create a prompt that keeps them on another second, another minute or serves them exactly right auto insurance ad. Then exchange for that economic benefit and what is clearly demonstrated ability to know what's going on with that person. If you see any evidence that that person might be capable of creating this type of crime, you have an obligation. Bartender's, the bar, if a bartender continues to serve people alcohol, observing that that person is really drunk and then that person gets in a car and kills someone, the bar is liable. A very good analogy. So if they have such incredible targeting, such unbelievable information, they can clearly tell that, "Okay, this individual is getting maps and identification and information is basically digitally casing." This is worrisome. We should investigate is what you're saying. A school, then immediately a message goes out to the local authorities saying, "Here's exactly what this person said. We have a judge involved. You get the order and boom, they're in the house asking this person questions. I'm not saying they arrest them. I haven't done anything yet." They would argue, "This is surveillance." Of course, they don't mind selling surveillance. They're surveilling it. I know. I know that the thing is, I'm just saying a human being in this situation would be arrested or liable, right? These people are giving, I agree. You should separate the two, but they're related, Scott. It's the same mentality of let us extract all the good stuff, let us not protect anybody, and we are not liable for what we're doing. You know, Mark Benham once called them cigarette companies. It's worse than a cigarette company. They were just selling cigarettes and using Joe Camel. That sucks. This is something, "Demented." I think they're "Demented." They think this is okay. They don't say to themselves, "Is this the way we want to make our money? We want to make our money by poisoning children's minds. We want to make our money by letting people who are mentally disabled become more so and then giving the plan." I agree, but they're giving people plans. If you're going to give people plans on how to shoot a school, you have a responsibility. say, you might want to check this out, please. I get, but for the purposes of remedies, I think you need to separate that to character AI may in fact be leading people into a state of psychosis where they believe the right thing to do is to find their stepfather's gun and kill themselves because they're going to get to hang out with Daenerys and at the afterlife. That is shifting their psychological state. My understanding of this, the shooter here was that she was already in an awful psychological state and was using chat GPT as a tool to execute violence. Both require some sort of regulation, responsibility and action. You're right. Yeah. You've done a lot of good work interviewing parents around the rabbit hole and psychosis that the character AI's can lead people to, which by the way, has an average usage time of 75 minutes versus AI at like 13 or 15. At the same time, if these organizations can very easily use the same technology to not only alert them at the right moment to serve them an ad for a dating app or for a cryptocurrency trading platform to say this person is clearly going through something and potentially a threat to the community and others. They have a responsibility to immediately notify the authority. All right. We're going to finish that but they don't have a community responsibility. One of the things that always struck me when you say they don't have a community, they don't feel like they like, no, I'm saying they should. I think we're agreement here. I think they never did is the point I was going to make when I when they were building their their headquarters. I remember Twitter building its headquarters and they had the most beautiful cafeteria. I don't know if you've ever been there, but it was I've never been invited to Twitter's cafeteria. This was pre Elon and I was thinking pre long pre lawn. I was thinking they don't care about all the businesses around. Like you know what I mean? Like they kept the people captive in this beautiful. Everything is here. Don't go anywhere and that they don't give a fuck about San Francisco. It's just like they just want to be here, but they didn't care about the surrounding delis. They didn't care about people going out in the street and creating a street life. They didn't back the, you know, they don't have to back the opera, but they didn't back any civic organizations ever. And I was always like, huh, what a group of people. They don't really care about anything but themselves. Like I remember being struck by that cafeteria and the game they really could give a fuck. And it was the same. It's the same idea they could give a fuck about our government. They could give a fuck about all these things except for what's in their interests. And so I could go out and I'm going to I'm moving into I'm speaking of psychosis. I'm moving into it. It comes around to one sort of basic algorithm. And that is all corporate. You could argue the big tech is worse than most, but generally speaking and safe to assume that all corporations care about is shareholder value and earnings and getting to those earnings within the confines of the law. What unfortunately is different nowadays. I don't think that's changed. I think general Motors would still be pouring mercury into the river if there wasn't. I would agree. Wasn't an EPA with the failure of the glitch in the matrix is that we used to have checks and balance in the form of leadership. They prevented a tragedy to comments. But because of citizens united now, the only thing that elected officials care about is getting reelected. And the only thing you need to get reelected is more money than the next person. And Silicon Valley is connected to dots here. And it said we can compromise inch by inch their ability to regulate us and prevent a tragedy to comments by throwing money at them. And now billionaires, the 900 billionaires in the United States are responsible for 19% of the pack giving. I know. Was that number? So I think you should tell Arrico about this. I'm sorry. You should let him talk about this issue. I mean, ultimately it's, it is not a good situation for all of us. And they, someone came up to me the other day and who had been critical of my book being too hard on Silicon Valley, burn book. And they said, I have to apologize. You weren't hard enough. And I was like, you're absolutely right. But anyway, all right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, what Barry Diller is saying about CNN? You know, they've said this about a lot of things. Go with the president. You can do somebody shit. I'm doing. That's probably true. President Trump continues to give mixed messages about the war in Iran. Mr. President, you've said the war is, quote, very complete, but your defense secretary says this is just the beginning. So which is it? And how long should Americans be able to say it? More clear is what's happening to the US and global economies as a result of this conflict. Markets falling like liberation day, the sequel oil prices up like we haven't seen in years. That means gas prices up. That means other prices will go up. Trump's supposed to be focusing on affordability. His party has a midterm election to try to win. He talked to Republican lawmakers yesterday. So our message is simple. Democrats created the high prices and our policies are totally ending them. And they they're ended and we're doing better. We're even bringing them down further self evidently untrue. Will the economic fallout of the war in Iran catch up with Trump? Today, explain drops every weekday. For a brief period of time in the beginning of the pandemic, a time that I'm very sorry to make you have to remember. There was this hot new app that promised to reinvent the way that we thought about social media forever. Clubhouse was going to be the thing. And this week on version history, our chat show about the most interesting and important and best and worst products in tech history. We're talking about why clubhouse took off and then ultimately why it went away. That's on version history available on YouTube and wherever you get podcasts. Barry Diller is speaking out about wanting to buy CNN and what he would do with it. And a new interview, Diller says CNN hasn't been managed. Opinion has enormous potential to influence. He says he told Warner Brothers CEO David Zazoff all this. Let's listen. Where I said, Jim, I don't think you're programming. I don't think it's being optimally programmed. I don't think it's competitive. Not by the way, the facts support that meaning that its ratings have declined. Its revenue has declined. It's still very profitable. But how would you alter it? Oh, in every way, look, feel and see every way. And I mean, I hope I get the chance. I don't think I will, but I hope I do. I'm not sure when this was, but I texted him. He said this not happening. He said not that now that the elephants have it. And they, and he quite correctly, and I happen to know this. They're going to combine CNN and CBS. He doesn't think he has a chance. I would love to work for Barry Diller. Even he's much more conservative than I am, but I would certainly love. He's such a good programmer. He's such an interesting thing. He does love journalism, even if he gets mad at it. Sometimes he's someone I appreciate in that regard. And it would, I wrote a message, can you please? And he said, there's no way. So I can, I can knock this one out of the water. You can't do it unless please, Alison, sell it to Barry Diller. Please, that would be great. So any thoughts? I mean, I would love to see Barry Diller partner with Jeff Zucker and a private equity firm. And I think there's more a greater likelihood than people believed that the elephants might say, this is too big a headache. We might just sell a combined CBS and CNN to someone else because I think that I'm not sure. And maybe I'm being naive here. I'm not sure there is Mac Avalian as people think about trying to control the world. I don't know, but maybe they have some grand vision for how they integrated into TikTok. But I can't imagine learning Alison as the smartest he is. Isn't going to say, this is going to be more headache than its words. They wanted the studios. I agree. They're not quite in Mac Avalian. They, they, they, they're just opportunistic. I would say I, you know, David Alison was, was democratic. You're the third richest man in the world by focusing on, on economics. And I think that anyways, I think there's a shot. CNN makes a lot of money. Dillard is correct. It makes a lot of margins. But I did some analysis here because I just wanted to show you like one, talk about some numbers of cable. And I spent a decent amount of time last night on AI looking at ratings and viewership. And essentially what I did was just to give you a sense for the ecosystem. And also I never missed a chance to make pivot look good. It is good. I looked at gross viewership. That is the number or listenership. That's a number of people who watch a program and then see it on YouTube or on social or download the audio and listen to it. And actually listens are more valuable than views because it's a more intimate experience. And that's why that's why you get higher CPMs on podcasts right now than you get on cable TV. CPM is the cost for a thousand viewers and advertisers willing to pay. So let's look at gross viewership. The number of times someone or the number of people that watch the program, see it on YouTube or somewhere else or listen to the podcast version of it. Fox News averages during prime time. Fox, Fox News during prime time averages 2.1 million and gross viewership. This is staggering CNN 660,000. Fox is kicking the shit out of CNN. Pivot's gross viewership is 375,000. CNBC is 252,000. Now that's a bit of a misnomer. It's important. But what advertisers care about, they don't care about kids. They don't care about seniors. They care about people age 25 to 54 who are buying kids houses and cars and in their mating years. This is single pivot, not two together of the week, right? This is one show. One show, not because you do two a week, but go ahead. This is one show. So in the core demo, that's adults 25 to 54. Let me start here, which will explain that number. Let's look at the median viewer age. Fox News, the median is 69. CNN is 67. CNBC is 63. Pivot, the median age is 42. 42. So, which leads you to believe, as you should, that the number, the percentage of viewers in the core demographic for these institutions or for the cable guys in CNBC is somewhere between 20 and 30%. For pivot, it's 70%. Meaning, the number of people listening or watching these programs, listening to or watching these programs in the core demo that advertisers care about, CNBC gets 63,000 people on average watching their programming who are in the core demo. CNN gets 135,000. Fox gets 197,000 and pivot gets 233,000. So we beat them in the demo. So we're getting more people in the core demo and then, which leads to the following. Our average CPM, according to Rachel, ultimate nice guy, a new father from Vox, we get a CPM of $45. The word I've heard from CNN is they get between 13 and $17. I don't know what Fox gets. So just to give you a sense, oh, and let's talk about median household income. And cost of doing business, but go ahead. You want to reach wealthy people. Wealthy people are now responsible for 50% of consumers spending that more discretionary income, right? Fox news, the average household, the median household income is $60,000. CNN 65 CMBC 85 pivot 150 because we get a very tech heavy high paid audience. So it's pretty obvious why cable news, Fox is actually doing pretty well, but cable news as a whole is dying. It's literally dying. So Barry Diller saying he wants a new look and a new feel. What I would suggest is unless you can pick it up. It distressed pricing and consolidated with a bunch of other stuff. I think Barry's falling into the same trap that a lot of people follow into and that is nostalgia is not a strategy. I don't think there's any I don't think there's any coming back. Really interesting. They're too expensive. I mean, you didn't even figure in costs, are costs or basement compared to all their costs. Oh, the gross margins. Yeah. I mean, then then it gets it goes from ugly to worse. Yeah. What's interesting is there, there's, it's still a great. Brandon, I agree with you about the romanticism. He happens to be even today at his, he's much older is still the best programmer. All right. He's been, he's a legend in the world of media, but not just that. I've never seen him think like, oh, I just, it was so his job alone and he hasn't been able to figure it out. I agree. I agree. But I'm just saying, I wouldn't like to say, oh, he's just being romantic. I've had discussions with him. He's got some great ideas and I agree. It's a real problem. I would spin it off and see what Zucker and Diller could do because I, both of them, very good. They have a lot of ideas and the bringing people who have great ideas. And what would you do with it? If they said, here is this, this is what you have, Scott. What would you do with it? I know you have an, just an enathema to television. I know that, but I, it's an interesting, I think it's what he knows best and it would be interesting. I think he would be an interesting owner. He says it's not happening. But it's nice that he's bringing it up, I think. Well, sorry. And by the way, speaking of our demo, of our young demo, 42 means there's a lot of people on the very young side. A lovely young man named Evan last night, I was going into this party for Hank Paulson. It was like, I love Pivot. Say hi to Scott. And I was like, and Amanda was like, that is a very young person. I get stopped by very young people, very old people, middle, and most much in the middle, and very different people. And I really, Evan, I really appreciate all the nice things you said about the show, because we like all our different fans, but you're right. An age thing is important, all kinds of stuff. Anyway, Barry, good luck. All right, we're not going to be buying it. I won't go off on my craziness, like I did with the post. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. So one thing I predict, we're going to have a great time at South by Southwest. All right, that's my prediction. That's what you're predicting. As always. All right, so my prediction is essentially, I think the markets this year are going to go down. I think we're on the precipice of like a $10 trillion wipe out. Wow. Really? Oh, yeah. Tell all. Well, not. And by the way, I got this wrong all the time. It's from Iran. It's from what comes after Iran. And this is the chain reaction here. I don't think oil is going to, I think oil is not going to be at $150, but it's going to be it's going to be. Stainably higher. It's going to be elevated through the rest of the year. And inflation in some markets reignites. The Fed can't cut rates. They're trapped to inspire the economy because they're worried about inflation. I think corporate earnings are really impaired. It's consumer stop spending because some of them will be paying $5 a gallon for gas and the 401k will start to decline. And Q2 earning season becomes bad. And then what CEOs do when things are sort of bad is they throw in the kitchen sink and they'll make it look like a blood bath just to get all the bad shit out. But the real contagion here is going to be from emerging markets. I think there's a decent chance that Pakistan and Egypt default and as well as Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, dollar-denominated debt, very energy dependent, very fragile economies. Because they all, there's this domino effect in those markets because they can't afford oil imports and their dollar-denominated debt just becomes unpable. And then the real downward spiral starts. European banks holding that emerging market debt started announcing right downs. Foreign banks, Deutsche Bank, BNP, Paribas, all hugely exposed. Credit spreads blow out. And we get sort of a, not to the same extent, but we get an '08 style, which bank is next moment. Except this time, it's happening while the US is fighting a war, we started for no reason. Excursion Scott. Excursion. Well, that's the mistake here. It should have been a special, it should have been a military combat operation instead. They've turned into a war with no objectives. But anyways, by August, the narrative ships, ships from transitory war shock to holy shit. We may have broken the global financial system. The S&P is off 20 to 40% from its peak. Bitcoin goes to like 30,000. And quite frankly, the only thing that probably goes up is canned goods and ammunition. And Chevron. Well, that's a scenario. Happy South West. But it's going to start, the predictions are following. It's going to start. The contagion is going to start in emerging markets that can't afford oil and their debt is dollar-denominated. It's just a toxic cocktail. I think it's a very accurate prediction I have to say. So in the problem is, we've shot so many bullets with our debt and printing money that the ECB and the Federal Reserve doesn't have the same firepower to try and lift us out of this. So in other words, it could be like an OH shock, but the problem is we have less ammunition for a bailout. Yeah, with the tariffs, with the debt, with everything. I mean, one of the things that did you hear James Carvel saying, I don't have enough to range and send him, I want more. I'm so furious, this fuckery was screaming. What he has done here with this Iran, and it all, as you have noted many times, links back to Epstein, right? It links back to this guy. He's the guy in every room. In every room, I think you're absolutely right. This, everything is motivated by either people want to get before, while the get-ins good or for themselves, or an unhealthy need to hold on to power in a demented way. Like I remember when Elon said that one time, if Democrats, it's an existential crisis for the world of Democrats, when actually, as I always say, every accusation is a confession. We're in an existential crisis because of these greedy fucks and because of the need to hold on to power over everything and it has reverberations around the world. There's some really interesting tax proposals. Senator Booker proposed basically a tax holiday for young people, which I love. Not that expensive because young people don't make that much money. We need to level up young people who are 24% less wealthy than they were 40 years ago versus old people who are 72% wealthier. And then for the first time, I saw a wealth tax that could potentially make sense. Instead of going after billionaires, they should be going after anybody or everybody that say has a wealth, you know, more than call it $100 million. You get no happiness, your kids don't get no incremental happiness for inheriting that much money. Yeah, we're helping you. Millionaires, we're helping you lift your wallets. And it should be annual and it should be small enough such that people don't have to liquidate assets. Or move to Florida. Yeah, it has to be federal. Starbucks is just going to get it. It has to be federal. You're absolutely right. That's great. Okay. All right, we're going to talk about that. That's going to be one of our big topics at Southwest. Anyway, because you will have just interviewed baby Jesus. Anyway. We want to call the baby Jesus. Call the baby Jesus. I dare you. Penis hugs baby Jesus. That's my. You're promising. Austin, you can't find three wise men in a virgin. Oh, very good. You knew it was coming. We just heard from the Calarico team and that he has a scheduling conflict. Yeah. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Stop with the jokes. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551pivot elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe. I'm going to get serious for a second. Monday, I publish a story that I think I'm the most proud of anything I've done in a very long time. I sat down with three Epstein survivors who have been pushing for more transparency on with care swissure survivor Liz Stein, who's also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, said her desire to help her younger self fuels her advocacy work. Let's listen to a clip. It would be irresponsible of me to have this position and to not use it so that others did not feel alone in this because if I could go back and tell myself anything, it would be to tell someone and if they don't listen, tell someone else and just keep telling until people listen to you. And even if you feel like they don't be proud of yourself because you at least were able to sit in your uncomfortable truth when other people weren't. And that's really what feels me doing this advocacy, being the person that I wish was there for me when I needed them. Well, this was a great show. They actually got to talk a lot about it. Often you get these shorter interviews. It was really very moving. I just listened to it. I know everyone goes, oh, good goodness. No, you know the emotion of noise. Such dignity, such incredible strength, such heroic behavior in the face of adversity. And you know, it was a lot of, I've gotten a lot of feedback that's been, I really appreciate, but it was all these women. They were astonishing. It's nothing to do with me, but I let them talk and you should listen to what they have to say, as she said. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Today's show was produced by Larry Neiman, Toney Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Bernie and her Todd Andrew knew this episode of Manolum Arano edited the video. Thanks to all sort of Drew Bros. me, Sivara and Denshulon. Nishat Kuroa is Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. We will see you all in the great state of Texas.