Investors Borrowed $1.45 Trillion to Buy Stocks: Is Record Margin Debt a Warning or Just Noise?

This is Invest Talk from KPP Financial, helping investors make sense of the markets one day at a time. Here's your host Justin Klein. Good afternoon fellow investors and welcome back to Invest Talk. This is our Wednesday September 23rd, 2026 edition. I'm Invest Talk. I'm excited for this hour with you a lot to unpack on today's show as yields are moving higher once again. This is a new environment. I'm saying this for a number of years now. We are now in inflationary world. The deflationary world is behind us. That means higher rates and that means different asset classes are going to react differently from harder commodity assets to real estate to equities. So you have to in many ways throw out the playbook of the 80s 90s and 2000s and 2010s. This is the 2020s. It is a new regime and we are here to unpack it all for you. Give you some perspective, give you data, give you or answer your questions. Whatever is on your mind, we are here to help you. So don't hesitate to reach out as always at 888 99 chart. Here's a quick heads up. The date is getting closer. We are approaching October 24th. We are now about a month away right tomorrow's September 24th and it's a Saturday. So we're inviting you to join us for the Invest Talk Retirement Summit. Luke and I are going to speak on different topics. He's going to be focused more on investing. I'll be focusing more on planning and then we have three guest speakers. One on a state planning, another on real estate and then another on taxes. So this is going to be a really exciting event. We have some great speakers lined up. It's free of charge, but seating is limited. So you must pre-register over at investtalk.com. Now I'm just a bit. Let's talk about today's mark performance. We're now in the show. Topics for the hour, but first let's tackle this first color question now. Hi Justin and Luke, I would just love your take on McDonald's ticker and CD. It's been on my watch list for years and years now and it recently triggered an alert for me down here in the lower 240s, upper 230s and seems like a great valuation long term here. So we just love your opinion on adding a position or starting to sell some puts down here. Thanks again, I'll listen on the podcast. Ah, I like that last part. Selling some puts. Selling puts get into a position waiting for it to get to a level where okay, it might be worthwhile at that point to step in. I mean, I get there in time, but you sell those puts going out 30, 60 days, something like that and earn some premium. I kind of like that. Now McDonald's was down pretty big today. Down over 4% which for McDonald's, that's a big move. And a lot of things within the consumer staples sector are struggling. And McDonald's is just one of them where they sell, they sell inexpensive meals. And those meals need to get to all of their stores, the raw ingredients, and that takes diesel. So the cost or input costs are going to go up. Plus they have a good amount of debt in their balance sheet, about $60 billion in debt, out of $168 billion market cap. Now that's not. Got a crazy ratio, but it is billions of dollars and tens of billions of dollars in debt. And when the cost of capital goes up, that means those debt costs are going to go up. So that's going to weigh on profits. And you see that with let's take a look at earnings this year. Rxx would be up 6%, then 8% next year. But those estimates both are coming down and that's why you're seeing a correction. Let's take a look at its enterprise value, the EBITDA estimates going forward. It's about 14.8. Now that is kind of in the low end that it's been at for a number of years. So that's that's kind of a good thing. So you're getting to levels. Let me give you a better level though. 207. Yeah, in that range, low 200s, 2, 2, 5, 2, 10, somewhere around there. That would be the buy point for me. I'd be very patient on it. I do think it will continue to head lower because of that debt level, because of higher input costs due to diesel and food, food inflation, all of that. It's going to squeeze their margins. It's going to force them to raise their prices, which likely will lower their volume, et cetera. So I'm I would probably sell puts around that maybe 210 level. That's probably a good good number to sell it at. Maybe go out to, I don't know, January. I don't know what, premium you're going to get for that. But that's probably what I'd be doing. Now with a great show yesterday, we looked into the story. The weight loss drug boom hits its middle age with the GLP1 economy means for your portfolio. We also answered listener questions on metronics. And if you happen to miss it, go check it out. That's where you get your every show is to follow invest stock wherever you get your podcast. Now, we have a lot of ground to cover. Today, over the next 45 minutes or so, and our main focus point is about our investors are borrowing about one nearly one and a half trillion dollars to buy stocks. That's margin debt. Is this a warning or is it just noise? Climb 37 billion dollars in August to 1.45 trillion the second highest reading on record. The number has gone up 140% since the end of 2022. While the S&P is gained 98%, so we'll break down this leverage and roughly what 4.5% of GDP actually tells investors about market risk. It's a widely cited indicator. So what does it actually mean for the risk in the market? Also, gold, gold is a popular topic. We know that central banks are buying. Couches around the world are buying. There's a new report at a China. World's second largest economy. How much are they buying? Are they increasing the purchases or decreasing? And then with interest on the rise, how to think about bond exposure, bond funds, active versus passive, duration risk, credit risk, etc. How do you take advantage of those higher yields but in a smart way? In a way that shields you from, maybe that shields you completely from losses, but reduces your overall risk as opposed to increasing your risk. But still getting that yield. We also have voice bank calls ready to play and some questions that came in via the comment section on the Best Talk YouTube channel. And of course, we're going to took a quick break right now. Please remember you can call anytime, leave your question on the Best Talk voice bank. And if you're listening and be our live stream or possibly an AM 1220 in the Bay Area, you can call right now at 888 99 in charge of next. I will comment on today's Market Activity. It's official. Total lifetime downloads for the Invest Talk podcast are now more than 63 million. Justin Klein is here now taking your calls live. Invest Talk 888 99 chart. It ain't 99 chart, it ain't 9924278. Let's go take a look at the market today and it was really all about the tenure all about interest rates once again. Two years up above 4.9% the highest in more than two years. The tenure back above 5.1% they got 5.1 for the close today. A new post financial crisis high. In the 30 year briefly hit yields that we haven't seen since 2004. Now what triggered this it was September PMIs they were actually pretty strong. They give it 58.4 versus 56.1 consensus and 56 was the prior number. So expectation was flat growth but growth accelerated. And this is the fast expansion since July of 2021 and in the fourth straight month of acceleration. You had manufacturing PMI that came at 57 versus 53.6, which was consensus. Output growth was strongest since April of 2022. Services PMI, 58.7, consensus was 56. Output rising the fastest pace in five years, employment growth accelerated as strongest since June of 2022. But of course, input cost, inflation costs continue to rise. So what you're seeing is that classic behavior in inflationary environment, which is I should go do the thing now before prices go up and that's what feeds on itself. And that's why we are in this inflationary environment, right? Check it gas now or wait another day or two before prices go up again. And then you add supply chain delays. These are the most widespread since July of 2022. So we're getting problems in the supply chain because of the war, because of higher cost of diesel. For example, this is all lining up to a more hawkish Fed. There's a 64% chance of a October hike. And 36% chance are 36 base of points of hikes throughout the year. So there's been better than 50% chance when we actually get two more hikes before your end. Now you did see oil up about 1.8%, but off its best levels. So a bit of a bounce. There were five straight days of decline on optimism around deals, things like that. But that's obviously not still talking, but I don't think anyone expects it. Now there is rumor, there are rumors that President Trump will ban diesel exports. I think that's a possibility. But you did hit silver and gold down on the day. Dollar was up half a percent on the day. Bitcoin futures down 2%. But overall, you set a flattening of the yield curve. The S&P was, where were we? S&P down about 75 basis points, NASDAQ down. 69 basis points, the Russell 2000 small caps. Certainly the week is down about 1.25% on the day. So once again, we're getting a choppy period. I expect that probably into the midterms. And then what kind of issues do we have with the election? I think that's increasingly a risk that needs to be anticipated is not in the day of, but what happens with legal proceedings after the election? I think that's kind of what I'll be watching. And that could throw a wrench into markets and increase volatility over the median term. Now let's go answer another voicemail question now. - Hey Justin and Luke, this is Dan from Northern California. Big fan of the show. Wanna get your thoughts on a company called Endphase Energy, ENPH is the ticker. They've gone down pretty dramatically in the last couple of years and seem to be reaching a reasonable valuation. But wanna get your analysis on that. Thank you again so much. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the bucket. - All right, looking at Endphase Energy ENPH, the development of manufacturer solar micro inverter systems for the solar industry. It's a company that was booming through the 2020s, 2022 in that era, and then it peaked out around 300 and changed back in the fall of 2022. And then it fell to a recent low all the way as low as 27. Now we're at 33. The chart is certainly not inspiring, but earnings are holding up. And they're kind of all over the place though. Peaked down earnings, $4.62 in 2022. Now $1.99 expected this year, $2.21. Next year, it's a $33 stock. So based on four looking earnings, the mid teens multiple, not crazy. But the chart is not giving me a lot of fuzzy feelings. The good thing is they have a clean balance sheet, but their free cash flow is still pretty meager. I just would, the technology don't line up. So I'm passing on it, but I will continue to watch it 'cause long term, I think there's potential here. There are 24 hour voice bank is ready for your call now at 88.99 chart. (upbeat music) The investment business, it's a trust business. But you shouldn't have to just trust that your advisor will hold your assets safely. At KPP Financial, we use established custodians like Charles Schwab and Fidelity. They hold your assets. KPP provides investment management and financial advice. Learn more about working with us at KPP Financial. It all starts with a free portfolio review and investdoc.com. - Let's talk a bit about gold, golds. And we know that gold has been hot for the past few years as the debatement trade continues to generally work that have a cooling off period earlier this year as central banks kind of slowed their buying. But that's starting to reverse once again. There was a new report coming out of China. And it shows they've spent a record amount importing more than 1,000 tons of gold this year. So it's earned about $158 billion. That's in the first eight months of the year ending in August, heading in August. That's compared to about $96.5 billion. They spend all of last year importing about 886, tons. So that's ramping up. And that's on top of China being the world's largest producer of bullion, of gold. They don't have a ton of natural resources, especially for a country they're size, but they do have a lot of gold. And the corollary to these holdings is that where are they getting that money? It's mainly by reducing US treasury holdings. Instead of reinvesting when they mature, a lot of the times they are taking that cash and they're going to buy gold. Their holdings of US treasury has felt is $618 billion in July, the lowest level since August of '08. And another reason for all the money going into gold. I mean, this is not just the Chinese central bank. It's also China as a country. And so domestic investment options in China are limited because the housing market has basically been collapsing since 2021. And then the benchmark CSI 300, now the S&P of China is down 1.8% for the year. And down 20% from its peak in early of 2021. So gold is becoming increasingly a diversifier for global investors as well as Chinese investors. So it's all about real assets. And Goldman Sachs is actually estimating that while the central bank alone said they bought about 20 tons, they're estimating it's actually about 35 tons alone in the month of July. So they're ramping up purchases both as a country, as individual investors and from a central bank level. So I want to update you on that. Let's keep things moving and dropping another listener question. Hi, I love to show calling about urban outsiders. You are the end. Do you think it's going to continue to grow? Or do you think it's no longer a good stop to get into? Thank you, bye. All right, looking at urban outfitters, actually store, I generally like to pop into. I don't go out shopping often, but I always find something interesting there, I think. But earnings are doing well. So let's be up 17% this year. 80% next year to $6.86. And it's a $74 stock. So you're talking of very low teens multiple, about a 12 times forward looking multiple. So it's certainly not expensive, but it's a retailer. And we know that retailers, their prospects kind of come and go, they've been flowed not just with the consumer, which is getting weaker because of oil prices, but also fashion trends. Now urban outfitters have been pretty good at kind of keeping up with the fashion trends. And that's why they have very little debt, only about $500 million in debt, on a $6.4 billion valuation, pretty low debt, free cash flow, 300 million, roughly, turn equity, 21%. So I like that. But then if you look at profitability, it can dip from time to time. For example, in the '01 recession, it dipped down to 6% return equity. Obviously during COVID, it dipped down to negative territory, but that's kind of an anomaly. But historically, it's return equity has been in the high teens. And I like that. I like that consistency. So of the, you know, cut niche small retailers, I kind of like urban outfitters, not just store itself, but the profitability, the valuation is eight times enterprise value to EBITDA. So I think it's relatively cheap. It has good cash flow, good long-term profitability, and good long-term performance. And this is something, you know, company's been around a few decades, been through the ups and downs. downs of the, especially the fashion industry. It's impressive that if you look at its 10-year return, it's been about seven percent of it, is lagging the industry. Five-year return, those pretty good, about 17 percent. So certainly something of the last five years has shifted with the business. Maybe it's, are they buying back shares? What are they doing with that cash flow? Yeah, they're buying back shares. So that's probably the key difference here. They've just been buying back shares, returning capital shareholders. They're not paying a dividend, but their dividend is basically paid through that buyback. So I kind of like it, even though it's a sector that is certainly going to be up and down. Now the next investment stock, we'll look into the story. It's quantum computing, a real investment or just hype. High on Q shares rallied sharply if the company announced a major quantum computing breakthrough, re-igniting investors' excitement around a technology that has long been described as transformational, but perpetually years away. We cut through the hype and ask whether quantum computing is finally an investable theme, or still a spectacular, or a speculative frontier. That story is, or tomorrow, but for now I'm Justin Klein, I'm ready to take your calls now, or any time, at 8.8 million, I'm sure. At KPP Financial, accountability means more than advice. It means we invest alongside you, through our parallel investing approach, when we recommend an investment for clients, one or more KPP principles, invest their own capital at the same time, same day, same price, same percentage. If your portfolio moves, R's does too. That is alignment, that is transparency, that is the KPP difference. Visit investtalk.com to get your free portfolio review. The Invest Talk Retirement Summit is coming to Irvine, California on Saturday, October 24th. You are invited to join KPP Financial and guest experts in tax, estate planning, real estate, and financial planning for an exclusive in-person event. It will focus on five key decisions that can shape your financial future. Attendance is complimentary and seating is limited. Reserve your place now at investtalk.com. Now made focus point today concerns this headline. Investors borrowed $1.45 trillion to buy stocks. And this is talking about margin debt. That's the big question here. It's easy to say that big number. It can chalk a lot of people. It's the second highest on record. And if you know anything about leverage, leverage kills. But that doesn't mean that it's going to kill today, tomorrow, next week, next month, or even next year. So what it does mean is there's a lot of dry Tinder for a major sell-off. But that only ignites with the true catalyst. Because if you look back in history, $1.45 trillion is roughly about 4.5% of GDP. Sounds like a lot. But if you go back to 2000, oh, excuse me, 1999, excuse me, it was 8.5%. So it's certainly been higher in the past. So a lot of times it's a coincidental indicator. Prices go up, value go up, portfolio is-- guess what? You can take out more debt. So that works. Stocks generally appreciate over time, which means that margin debt should consistently hit new records. Should grow over time. Proportional to the market cap or the market. So a lot of this is, yes, it's high as a percentage of GDP. But compared to the market cap, it's not. Now what is a warning sign? Well, it's really about a huge jump in margin debt over a short period of time. And this did proceed market peaks in 2000, 2007, and 2021. So the speed of that build up matters. And that's actually probably the biggest warning sign. Now it's not as high as those levels. In 2000, it reached as high as-- what's that-- about 80% year of year growth. In 2007, it was somewhere around 65, 70, about 70% growth. In 2021, it was about 75, 80% growth. Right now, we're at 55% growth. Once again, high, but not quite as high as those other levels. So to me, I wouldn't say this is a giant red flag, but it's a yellow flag. It's a yellow flag. Once again, not because of the total amount, but because of the sharp move, really off those 2022 lows. In fact, going into the 2022 lows, there was a drop in margin debt year of a year of about 30%. So you can see there, it's more coincidental, but it does give, like I said, a dry tinder for a potential broader market pullback. But you need a catalyst for it. So really, that's question of what is that catalyst? Usually, it's tightening of liquidity conditions. So when you look at interest, go up. When you look at the dollar going up, those are catalysts for tightening of liquidity conditions. If you get real interest rates rising considerably, meaning if the Fed overly tightens, that is where you get that 2022 sell off right, peaked in 2021 on margin debt growth. But the catalyst for the drop wasn't just that. It was rates rising considerably. Real rates going from deeply negative, which is very stimulative, it's you saw in 2020 and 2021, to fairly restrictive. Will one hike do that? No, well two, probably not. Well three, maybe four, you're getting very close. Kind of all does depend on where inflation is going. And as you're seeing today, is that yes, rates are going up. But so is inflation, so is economic growth. And so real rates will stay relatively low if inflation goes up and interest rates go up. It's when interest rates go up much higher, talking to 3% higher than actual inflation. So right now what's inflation? Let's call it moving towards four again. So you're going to need probably a 10 year closer to six. Right now we're at what 5.14. I think that six is my level where, OK, things could start to break. But I don't think we're quite there yet. Now let's slide in another listener question from 8 to 8, 90 in Android. Yes, my name is Nick from East Bay Area. My question is, what's a good price to pay for Nvidia? OK, thank you. Love your show. Take care. Bye bye. This is so interesting. Nvidia is like a cults, has a cult following in the day. I went to the event up there about a year ago. And it was pretty interesting. Because they all want to talk about Nvidia. There were certainly some Nvidia, I believe, investors in the room or inside of investors, employees in the room. And the stock had just gone up 1,000% over 5 years or whatever it is. So it makes sense. But that fever pitch gave me a spidey sense that most of the easy gains at least are behind us. And where are we now? Well, we're higher on Nvidia, but not dramatically so from those levels. So we were somewhere around 200 to share back then. And now we're at 225. So let's sell it about 10% or so from when I had that meeting a brief a year ago. Bye. The question now is, is it cheap? I mean, earnings are expected to go from 9.26 this year. That's up from $4.77 last year to $15.74. And a lot of you will say that if you look on based on forward-looking earnings, $15, plus an earnings, is quits about 15 times forward-looking multiple, which is below the market multiple. So a lot of you will say it's cheap. Now there's two ways to look at this. You could say, market's now underpricing. It's future earnings potential. And it will re-rate higher as these numbers are hit. Or is the market telling you something? Something similar to what you get with micron and you get with Sandisk, historically, which is they look the cheapest near the peak because earnings won't reflect negatively. Now, we know there's a lot of circular financing deals within the AI space. And Nvidia is certainly part of a lot of that, right? Video will invest in open AI or on Thropic or whatever. They'll buy Nvidia chips with that money effectively. And that's how this all is kind of working. We know in history that is usually an ecosystem that fails over time. Why? Because at the end of the day, these aren't economic transactions based on true return on investment. Meaning these companies have not figured out how to truly make money off their end customers. I don't see any money. Profit off their end customers. Yes, revenue, yes. That's absolutely true. They have revenue. Well, there's two sides of the ledger. There's revenue, there's expenses. And Nvidia is a huge part of that expense. And what you're seeing now, you saw this was the day yesterday. Open AI came out with cheaper models or lowered the price in some of their models because guess what? Companies are starting to use open source models. Better cheap, very cheap to run. So they're trying to compete. Now they're competing on price. You start competing on price. What you're saying to the marketplace is we have no economic mode. Our models are not that much different than any other model. Especially for the vast majority of use cases that companies are using them for, right? Analyzing emails or an AI summary of a call. All of that. So to me, like I've said, the whole industry is losing its momentum. So this isn't really a number. It's a sentiment thing. I think a sentiment has gone off sides starting to weaken. There's still a lot of hope around it. But I think you're eventually going to move into pessimism. The whole sector will go on a downtrend. And then there'll be a time where sentiment will get actually the other way, saying they're never going to figure out how to make this profitable. They're not going to earn enough money. They pulled back a lot of their projects and things will start to reverse. And that's when you want to pick up these names. When the negative sentiment is so bad, it feels hard to buy it. But that's exactly when you want to buy it. Now let's go with the YouTube comment section question. At the Real Muskie says, I want to increase my allocation to industrials from currently seven and a half percent to 10%. I own Argan Interrex, the first, almost doubles as I bought it for the first, about it the first time, second performed okay, which of the two is a buy at the current price? Interesting, okay. Looking at A, G, X, Argon, actually name, looked at in the past, it's construction company, operates, okay, yeah, this is pulled back considerably. So this is one of those names within the AI data center space. This business segments are power, industrial, teledata, everything around data centers. If you go look at earnings, earnings are expected to grow 34% this year, after being up 58% last year, and the 158th year before. But next year, earnings are expected to only grow 22%, and that's where you're getting this rewriting lower. Growth is slowing, this is exactly what, this is, I think ahead of the game, this is the towel on the rest of the industry. Why is there growth slowing? Because these data center buildouts are getting more difficult because of costs, regulations, pushback from local populations, access to power, et cetera. And so that's why their growth, let's get it slow. Now it does look, it's like it's into some pretty good support here. Right around the 100 week moving average, about 330 or so. Right now we're trading at 374. So I think there's a little more downside to go. On Terrix, this name is less growth, but it's also not as overvalued. It's actually chart is better, it's higher highs and higher lows. So I would actually be a buyer of Terrix over argon, A, G, X. Let's go answer another voicemail question now. - Hi Justin on loop. Can you please take a look at new core corporation? That's N, U, E, thank you very much. Why? - Are looking at new core, I've said this before, within the American steel industry, there are really only two players that should ever be, I was never reconciled, should be near the top of your list at any given time. Now things could change about their business, but these are two of the top performers who are talking about steel dynamics and new core. Which one do you like better? You know, you kind of depends on the current market environment, but historically long-term, they tend to be the names that are performing the best with the best profitability, balance sheets, et cetera. I do tend to lean on new core most of the time, as sometimes I, you know, steel dynamics, but you know, my bigger issue though is that while they are the better performers within the industry, for a profitability standpoint, it's not exactly, they're not exactly spectacular businesses. Right now and good times of turning an equity for new core is 14.5%. Mod is that load, not a big deal. But momentum is slow. In fact, the chart is starting to look pretty heavy. But 1% dividend yield, earnings are expected to go from, we got, let's do the dynamics. Not up 44, up 144% this year, but then up only 4% next year. And that's the history of these names that boom and bust, they made $28 in change in 2022, then only $771 last year, and $18 in change this year, and $18 in change next year. So you can see how up and down it is. But that's a steel company. It's their price taker for the most part. There's not a ton of economic mode here. But I like it if you want steel exposures. There's the question you have to ask yourself. Generally is, if I'm going to get access, if I want to buy more material stocks, is this the type that might, do I want to be in the steel industry? Over, maybe popper exposure, others. So I don't know what the rest of your portfolio looks like, but you have to really question whether steel is the direction you want to go. Now it's the best stock I'm just in client, and we have one goal here each and every week days to help you achieve your own version of financial freedom. And I work continues after this final breaks to get your questions in right now. A day, now you know, I'm sure. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - In the early days, Invest Talk was Jerry Klein and Steve Peasley. Now the torch has been passed and a new generation of hosts is on the job, Justin Klein and Luke Guerrero. So when you've got finance and investment questions, don't forget to call Invest Talk, 888-99, chart. (upbeat music) - Interest rates are on the rise. And so investors are trying to take advantage. They're pouring money into bond funds, about $58 billion in August. Now, the question for most investors is, does this make sense? Should you be chasing this yield? And how do you do it in the right way? Now, you can buy individual bonds. That's what we do. We're actively finding opportunities in the markets for our clients. But for the average investor, that's probably not a way to go because it's difficult to find access to the best bonds that are out there. You're not really going to get the best price because you're kind of a small player, small fish and a big pond, right? There's tons of bond funds by millions of dollars in the ocean of value in an issue every single day. When we go buy a bond for clients, we're usually buying a million dollars plus. So we get pretty good pricing. So if the average investor, okay, then it's like what bond funds should I buy? Should I buy a passive in index or should I buy an active fund? Now when it comes to bond funds in general, if you look at different types of bond funds, who gets most of these sectors of the bond market, it's more attractive to buy actively managed funds. Why? Because the indexes, they kind of overweight treasuries, which are the lowest yielding in the universe. And then the index has to buy kind of the most liquid names where a lot of the active managers can go buy smaller bonds that are maybe mispriced a little bit, get better yields. And that's a big factor and that's something we do by, well, by, you know, bonds of necessarily small companies. They're still publicly companies with billions and billions of dollars. But, you know, they're not bonds for McDonald's, for example. And so that's why active management in the bond market tends to outperform. And then they can also take on more credit risk, which in an inflationary environment is how you want your portfolio to look in the bond market. You want it more credit risk, less duration risk, and you're feeling that now. Credit spreads aren't winding out. How you'll bond market isn't becoming dysfunctional. How are you losing money in this market on the bond side? You're owning duration. And so if you're going to buy a bond fund, you want funds that have low duration. That's a non-negotiable inflationary environment. So don't be going and chasing high yields, just because yields are up and long term bonds buying TLT, for example, it's not the way to go. So now we know you should buy probably active, actively managed funds. But you should still keep an eye on fees. Because at the end of the day, while rates are up, 6, 7% in corporate bonds, for example. Just tell your upside, your expected return for bonds should be whatever that yield's maturity is when you buy the bond, or the bond fund. And so do keep an eye on fees, so don't just pick active, don't just pick passive, you have to be, there's a lot of new ones here. So it's okay to dip in a little bit more into bond funds right now or bonds in general because rates are up. It doesn't wipe out the point that you need to limit your duration. It's okay taking credit risk. If you're going to buy a bond fund, you probably want to buy a core plus bond fund, they're going to incorporate some high yield in that, and that's going to give you a little bit extra return. So it's okay to take advantage of the high interest rates, but still keep your duration short. Now I'm just in client reminding you about KPP financials pair long-desting, make a trade for our clients, make the same trade for ourselves, same day. Same price, same percentage, no front running, no special treatment. We invest right alongside our clients, we show the same risk and potential for success. You can learn more about heading over to investtalk.com, please tell your friends and family about free podcast downloads, which we buy anytime that I, too, say Spotify and market calendars. October 24th, one month and one day away, you're invited to join the KPP team and guest experts for our in-person retirement summit in Irvine, California, they just head over to investtalk.com to register. Independent thinking, shared success, this invest talk, good night. Invest talk is a trademark of KPP financial because of the nature of the interactive dialogue inherent in the format of this program. It's important for the listener to understand that not all comments made will apply to them. Specifically, nothing said she'll be taken to be investment advice, or shall statements on this program be considered an offer to buy or sell security. Because such advice is rendered solely on an individual basis, and at times will require that the investor review a prospectus before investing. Invest talk is a copyrighted program of client, Pavless and Peasley financial, a registered investment advisor firm.