Interview with shamanic practitioners Gayle Mair and Roger Wheelock

Hi, Sky here. And I have got a special edition podcast for you today in interview that I did with my friends and fellow Shamanic practitioners, Gail Mayor and Roger Wheelock. We talked a lot about ceremony and how they got to be ceremonialists and also why ceremony is so important for people today. I hope you'll give it a listen. Hi, this is Sky and I'm here with a couple of my dear friends, Gail Mayor and Roger Wheelock. Say hello, you two. Hi. This is me, I'm a graduate. I have had the privilege of knowing Gail and Roger for quite a few years now and they are what I would consider ceremonialists and they have done many, many kinds of ceremonies. And I feel really grateful that I have been in quite a few of them in your despachos ceremonies and some of your crystal grid ceremonies and they are each very powerful in their own way. So I would love it if you would just talk a little bit about who you are and what you do and we'll take it from there. Thank you, Sky. I'm Roger and I'm a shamanic practitioner in Asheville, North Carolina in the Blue Ridge Mountains, the western part of North Carolina. It's a very beautiful place. It allows us to be in tune with nature from when we get up to when we go to bed. It's a real blessing. And yes, so I have an energetic healing practice here and work with clients individually. My background is largely through training of the Peruvian shaman that live in the high andes of Peru. They call themselves Pacos but nobody would understand that word here in the US. So shamanic practitioner is the cove for that. So yes, I have the healing practice and then Gail and I are co-ceromontialists and we have developed quite a few ceremonies together. Maybe you want to speak a little bit about yourself here, Gail. Okay. Thanks, Roger. I have also some Peruvian shamanism background. I went to Peru and studied with Don Juan Nunes del Prado in 2013. That was an eye opener for me. I felt so connected to the indigenous people there and their traditions and their ceremonies, how they're connected so deeply to the earth and to the energies of the earth. And that was a start for me in the shamanic traditions. I also am deeply connected to nature through my goddess traditions and through the fairy energy and I just feel so, so much powerful nature, energy flowing through me whenever I'm among the trees and in the forest. That's kind of what my fuel is. The energy I feel when I'm in nature. Beautiful. Yeah. Oh, and I'm right with you there. That's amazing. I love how you said it's the fuel for you. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, when I'm in ceremony, it's my joy to bring my excitement about what I feel in nature to the awareness of other people. And I honestly believe that everybody has that connection and sometimes it takes a really good deep ceremony for them to feel that connection. But then they're awake to it and the next time they go out in the trees, they really get that, they really get that fuel also. So that's, I think what drives me to do ceremonies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, Roger. Yeah. We've gradually kind of grew into this role as co-seremonialists. We did a lot of work in starting in 2010. Through a company we created called Awakening Asheville. And the idea there was that we do spiritual, host spiritual workshops for other presenters. The idea being if their life was made easier, then they could give a far better presentation. So that was sort of like we were the marketing and all the- That's leasing. Yeah, the stuff behind the scenes. And then as we got older, we began thinking that maybe we had something to offer ourselves and that our energy should be put into that offering and then instead of just amplifying the offerings of others. So yeah, that's kind of how we got started. Well, I'm really glad that you decided to step into that work yourself, you know, after after supporting and facilitating others. Thank you because I think what you offer and have been offering to the communities that you're part of and to the entire world has been incredibly important and beautiful. And I can say that because I've been in your ceremony. Thank you. And I felt that. And I know that your teacher, Wilbert Atasi in Peru taught you a lot about ceremony in the Dispacho tradition. And you know, the Dispacho traditionally has roots in the Peruvian culture. And the Dispacho that I've been with you have been amazing and I've been in one with Wilbert as well. But how do you think that Dispacho is relevant in our culture now that you have learned that craft and brought it as part of your offering and practice? What I have heard from people who sit with us when we do Dispacho's is how grateful they are for ritual. They seem to really be missing that ceremony and they have something they want to express and with a Dispacho, the primary expression is gratitude. And the Dispacho is a vehicle for a beautiful expression of that of that gratitude in a ritual that is easy for everybody to participate in. If you haven't seen or been part of a Dispacho ceremony, you can think of it as a little bit as a mandala created with items that are common in your culture and that for which you feel grateful. And the idea is that with the Dispacho, you give so much gratitude, you give it for all the things but you give it with a faith, with a fullness in your heart that because you're grateful and you're already receiving what you're grateful for. So a lot of times a Dispacho may be for something that you want to bring into your life or bring in more strongly into your life. And so you make the Dispacho with gratitude that it's in your life and it's almost like you create a magnet of gratitude and the gratitude really blossoms in your heart while you're doing this. Dispacho, and it just, it creates an energetic field that really invites, invites the occurrence so that the gratitude just flows even more powerfully. Yes, and then when Gales offering the Dispacho ceremony to community, I am kind of free and had just can be present for the whole thing. So that's a beautiful experience. What my role is on that is that I'm the fire keeper, the Dispacho, Peruvian Dispacho, so are you most commonly burnt in a fire within 24 hours after they've been created. So when we're doing that, I, Gales making the magic happen with a despacho, and I'm out trying to get the wood together in a pile that'll light up out back so that people can come out for the, including part of the ceremony. I've gotten pretty good at building a fire. So that's my role in the despacho ceremony. So I guess I should say that you, the, the, to create a despacho, you start with a piece of paper. And then you put down ingredients from nature primarily with an intention and in a, in a, in a beautiful way. And then it's all folded up. And then this, this is the despacho, the prayer bundle that then gets burned in Rogers Fire so that the intention can be released to the universe. There we go. Should have said that first. But release at the important part. That's, you know, so similar to other indigenous cultures, releasing things and fires like prayer bundles and, you know, tobacco offering. So that's it needs to be let go and give an over to the universe, right? Right. So many things and released in water is another release. And that a despacho can also be released in water or even buried, depending on how fast or how slow you want the release to occur. I am reminded of some of the ceremonies that we have done on the beach on the coast, where we have made mandalas and despacho prayers. And if whatever we find on the beach and making the mandala and then putting it so that the tide would come up and take those, those blessings and the prayers and take them out into the, to the ocean. I was so powerful. I think that's so powerful because the ocean is so big and she just comes and sweeps it into her arms. Yeah. So, you know, what's interesting is I, being in your crystal grids ceremonies as well, has just as much power and the element of gratitude and gratefulness and also I think alignment. So what I'm curious about is did the crystal grids come out of the despacho work that you were doing? Was it a natural step or was it something completely different? Well, first of all, I'd say that the Pachosa shamans in Peru do work with crystals. And so if you would travel there, you'd bring a gift to your teacher and it might well be some crystals that they would be an honoring gift. But that's not really where my, my training came from in building the crystal grids. My training started around 1995 or so and it was through an organization called Concept Synergy. And Concept Synergy is a Jack Purcell is a channel for an entity called Lazarus. Lazarus's main cosmology is that we came from the stars and then lived lifetimes through Lemuria and then Atlantis and then now we're in another chance to get the new kind of human being right. So they naturally had an emphasis on the crystals as being part of the work being done in Lemuria and part. Most everyone has heard about the crystals and the technology in Atlantis. And the idea is that things are, the crystals are coming alive now at this time to be active with people when they may have been a little sleepy 10 or 20 years ago. So what I learned during that process is not about healing with crystals. Although I understand that that's beautiful medicine and I highly encourage people to give that a try with an experienced practitioner. But what I've learned to do is make these crystal grids for manifesting or co-creating something a person wants in their life. And so that's where they came from originally. I still do that work. The person has an intention and they get clear on the intention and then I have a variety of a collection of crystals and the ones that want to do the work with that client come forth. They just kind of self-select in a way. And then together we get sit down at a table and we build the grid together to make their intention become real in the world. And yeah, so it's not that's what I do with the stones then is really. Connect their energies between the individual crystals on the table. Each one has its own vibrational aspect and I like to say it's own personality. The skill I've developed is to link those together into a single energetic grid. And that's what we brought through blending that with the our background is shamanic practitioners and our training in Peru is to incorporate the energy of building these crystal grids in a ceremonial setting where we've learned the techniques from a true indigenous source, a real deal and create a vessel for community to come together in a conscious sharing of some intent that usually they want to take out in the world or often even just for themselves to raise their vibrational frequencies. So the big shift there would be Gail and I understanding and please I want you to speak to this that the role of creating the community is probably the most important thing about the ceremonial aspect rather than what media or what traditions it's playing out through. So why don't you speak a little bit about the community and the creation of a Gail. Okay. So again, I think that what people are searching for and they tell us this is they want to be in a community, they want to be in a group where they feel they have a common intention and an original holds that. It's like a container. The ritual is a container and so what what we have found is that when we're in a circle with a group, the energy that comes forth from each individual is multiplied and expanded by our mutual intent. So when we get together and we talk about radiance or we want to talk about resonance, I often will play a crystal bowl and invite everybody to feel their vibrations and to feel the sound in their cells. I know it sounds kind of strange, but it does work. And then when we're each, all of us feeling this, we are exponentially more strong and resonant in our vibrations because we're all joining together to do the same work and the crystals really help focus that. So we've got, you know, the music, the sound that vibrates us kind of all together and gets us resonating together, we have a common intention of, you know, maybe it's peace or maybe it's healing polarity or something. And then we're all kind of going in alignment together and then Roger brings the crystals into it and they really focus, focus the intention and the vibrational energy that we all have in a way that really is just so powerful to zero in and bring a point of power and strength. Those are words that sound, that I don't like the way they sound sometimes because they've been misconstrued, but it's the strength of the energy for a positive intent. And it's the community that makes that happen and everybody feels really good and we really have a strong feeling that what we send out into the world has a positive impact. the butterfly effect. And the crystals are such that they transmit this energy pretty much immediately in the ceremony, yes? Well, absolutely. I mean, just because they're crystals in they're unique, you know, and they're separate and they're sitting on a table, they are still connected to their, you know, their, their source deep in the earth. So you might have a small amethyst crystal, but it's talking and vibrating with all of the amethyst crystals that are deep in the earth. And so we really feel that connection and that power. Yeah, the other thing that we've learned that's important. And I think it's important in most ceremonial aspects. It's difficult when there's large groups, but to give everyone in the circle a chance to express their voice to speak about who they are. And one of the, the real, I guess, challenges or sometimes I didn't think it was devastating. During the pandemic was that people lost their voice, you know, the masks and everything. And they didn't have an outlet for expression. And as things eased up, they came out and they they wanted to share now who they were. Certainly most people went through some unique changes in situations during those times. But what we've been able to do in that regard is to create a safe space where they can, each person can truly speak about what their problems are, what their beauty is or that type of thing without any form of judgment or any, they feel, they feel safe to express their voice. And it's a beautiful thing. For me, that's where I learned so much from hearing what each person has to say in the circle before the, the stones are even used to build a grid. Well, that kind of goes back to what you were saying a little while ago, Gail, about people who participate in the ceremonies, then can feel that spark again when they are taking it out into their practice, right? Because they have that that link to the energy that was from that community experience. But then there's also what that seed that's planted. How would you describe that? Well, I think that what Roger was just saying about having given voice. A lot of times we think about things or, you know, they go around in our heads. But until we give them voice, they're not really clarified. And some, I believe that when we speak, we give something voice, it becomes, it becomes more real. When you give it voice, you've given it a vibration. And now it is part of the resonance. And so when somebody now leaves our circle or leaves a crystal grid, they can feel those vibrations in their voice still. They can hear their voice. They can hear those that reson those words resonating in their memory. And also they can feel the power of the, the vibrations beneath their feet. Because I always talk to them about, you know, that you're, you're what you're walking on is crystals and ancestors. And there's so much power in the ground. And we're all connected with our feet all the time. Just reach down, pull it up and feel it. And, and it gives us, it gives us the sense of of solid solanous and, you know, strength. It's, we're not alone. We are not alone, not in any of this. I love that. And, and that is, that is something to not only remember in our practice, but to, to bring to people who are not familiar with that concept. So I, I love that. That's huge. That's huge. And then just in in the few minutes, last few minutes here, one, one more question. What does spirit require of you as ceremonialist besides holding that energetic container? Well, practice. A lot of work and preparation. You can't just show up and wing it. So, yeah, it's, it's, we have to come up with a theme for the specific ceremony. And then we have to work together to expand on that theme to say how it could be relevant to the people that show up in our circle. Then we have to tap into how can they bring something that they can speak in the circle. Some reflection of the theme that's relevant to them. It's like a little pre-circle homework, usually most people read the email and have that thing that some people show up and, Alan, don't have, hadn't heard about it. And they sometimes have the best things to say. So, it's, yeah, and then it's the, the other things of, of renting the space and setting things up. And so, that's the organizational part. But the other thing that is also that you touched on just a few minutes ago, Roger is listening, spirit. We have to listen to spirit because if we try to create a crystal grid or a despacho or just some kind of topic without, without listening to spirit, without opening ourselves, then it, it doesn't work. It becomes about, I don't know, ego or something. And, and, and it doesn't ring true and it doesn't come from, well, obviously it doesn't come from spirit, but it doesn't resonate or vibrate with our hearts and it just, it just doesn't, it doesn't work. And the other thing that's important, I think, when I say practice is, is, is, this is, this is our, our life. We live gratitude. We live listening to spirit. We live walking with our feet on Pachamama and listening to the trees. We're in tune with this all the time. And, spirit, I think, has come to, to rely on us to, to bring this message or to bring, bring these opportunities for ritual to people who, who can benefit from it and who are hungry for it. So, so I'm really, I'm really grateful for that, for that, that constant awareness of, of what's out there and what's inside us and how they're all connected. Yeah, that is beautiful. And, you know, having a spirit led life, that can radiate out in, in your work and all you do and people can realize that, that that's possible. You can, you can live your life and you can go to work and you can raise your kids and you can pay taxes if you want to. And so, you know, and still live that spirit led life by recognizing the gratitude and recognizing that your feet all the time or prayer on the Mother Earth and that your thoughts or prayer on the Mother Earth out into the atmosphere and remembering that through ceremony, I think, is, is, is a huge thing. I mean, it's, it's like a catalyst. And I think that's why ceremony is so important and why so many people like you said are grateful for ritual that they were missing that because that helps kind of put, put you in first gear when you're going through your spirit led life there. So, yes, it does. It gives, it gives everybody that chance to, to, to gear down or gear up and, and understand how those cogs all work together in their own lives. Yeah. And then you stepping up to do this work, you know, like you were saying, spirit, it's like, yay, thanks for doing that for me because it takes the humans, you know, with the free will to bring that spirit into something tangible and that can be felt and seen and communicated to others and shared with others. I just really well said you're right. I just really appreciate what you do so much. and I'm really looking forward to being in ceremony with you again. And I'm just so glad that you bring this to the world. Thank you. Thank you, Sky. Well, and thank you for taking the time to talk to me today. And so if they, if people are interested in what you do, they can contact you via your website. Would you want to tell people how to contact you? Community shaman.com. It's all lowercase. Just the way it sounds, no space between community and shaman. So that would be a good way. I'd be happy to talk to anybody about this. It's interested. And would respond to any inquiries about it to via email. So just feel free to contact me. I'd be glad to get back to you. Wonderful. All righty. Well, and of course, I'm going to be sending you a copy of this. To put out to your community and it'll be out to my community at shamanixoltending.com. And I am grateful that Gail and Roger visit Corvales quite a bit. And so I'll get to see them again soon. Thank you so much for taking the time today to chat. Thank you, Sky.