029: Interview With Online Motion Design Teacher Jake Bartlett

Hello, you Kermedia Family, Vladimir Praknevsky here, and welcome to episode number 29 off the media podcast, where a server you Kermedia Family with weekly interviews from highly creative people. Now, today's guest is someone super special. His name is Jake Bartlett. He's a motion designer and online instructor based in Denver, Colorado. Jake had the opportunity to work for clients like Coca-Cola, Twitter, Skype, EverNotes, HTV, Nat GeoWild, Nora Jones and many others. Jake, welcome to the show. Feel free to fill in the gaps from the intro and tell us a little about you personal life. Sure. Thank you so much for having me. This is exciting. I love being on podcasts. I can tell you a little bit about where I've come from, how I got to where I am. I got into to After Effects at a pretty early age. I was in high school in my oldest brother, who's eight years older than me, came home from college with a copy of After Effects and Premiere. And one summer, he showed me how to put lightsabers on top of video that we shot. And that blew my mind. That was kind of like the gateway drug into video co-pilot tutorials and creative cowl. But that's what got me into After Effects and so through high school, I started teaching myself how to do these visual effects and things through, like I said, video co-pilot. I was pretty much the place to learn After Effects at the time. We all went through it. Video co-pilot. But I started to learn Photoshop at the same time and later on in like my last two years of high school, I learned Illustrator as well from a graphic design perspective and went into college thinking that I wanted to either be an editor or a motion designer. And I didn't really know which one would pan out. So I kind of just studied and practiced both because growing up, I just ran around with the camera all the time making silly videos and putting lightsabers on them. My official major in college was just called digital media and I had an emphasis in cinema. And I went to a one semester film program in LA where I made a lot of connections there, fortunately, because when I graduated, I had decided I was going to move to LA and try and pursue something in either editing or motion graphics. And one of the guys that I went to school with out there on my drive from Michigan where I'm from to LA, he said, "Hey, I'm working for a sound designer who rents a space at a production company and he caught wind that they need an After Effects artist." So send me your reel and I'll pass it along. And so that sound designer that he was working for blindly vouched for me to this company, having never met me. I was straight out of college in two weeks, about two weeks after I got to LA, I got a job as a motion designer on a daily show, kind of like a trivia based show for Yahoo News, where it was just a 90 second animated text and cut out photos, moving a 3D camera around them, telling a little story where, you know, on this day in history, whatever, the big Mac was invented and it was by this person and this is connected to this. And it just jumps around all these little facts for about 90 seconds and it had to be done every weekday. So we had five episodes a week and there was a team with two, just me and one of the guys. So we got really, really, really good at using 3 cameras, animating text in interesting ways and cutting out photos and Photoshop. Eventually, we got somebody hired onto the team that was specifically for the image searching and Photoshop, like cutting, masking out the subjects of the photos for us. Well, because it was such a quick turnaround, yeah, we got really fast at just using After Effects in general. But it was maybe a year and a half or two into that that I realized that I was really good at After Effects and not necessarily an animator or even, I mean, I guess I could have called myself a motion designer, but I was just, I knew how to use After Effects is that was where I was at my point in my career. And I saw an animation by a guy named J.R. Kinest, which I'm sure many of the listeners are familiar with, but he was still in school at the time. And he made this little title sequence called Crazy Enough where it was just geometric shapes bouncing around the screen, but they moved in a way that boggled my mind because I knew he did it in After Effects, but it was like, how, how in the world is he making something look so cool? And why doesn't my stuff look like that? So that was kind of like the pivotal moment in my career of recognizing that there was more to it than just knowing a program. And I didn't really know how to improve myself after that. I would literally find examples of things that moved in ways that I thought looked really great and I would either screen record them, or pull them off a YouTube or something, and then analyze them frame by frame, so I could figure it out. And so I taught myself like an overshoot, but I didn't know the principles. So it was probably like three or four years after I had started working professionally as a motion designer that I discovered school of motion. And Joey over there was doing a course called Animation Bootcamp. And he pitched that course perfectly. It was like he was speaking directly to me because in the trailer, he says that this course is for motion designers who have no background in motion design. And that was exactly where I was. So I took that course and it was a six week course, but I felt like I instantly was just improving my ability to understand motion and how to how to make things move. I saw such a huge shift there and I knew that's, okay, that's what I want to pursue from now on. I don't want to just be an after effects artist. I want to learn how to be an animator and probably just specialize in 2D and then that's what I want to pursue. So from there, I guess my timeline, my career timeline, I worked at that company for almost five full years. My last year of working there, I started doing freelance work on nights and weekends just through connections that I had made working at that company. And I also started teaching myself on a website called Skillshare. And between that freelance and Skillshare, I was actually having my day job was taking away from that side work. So it kind of just clicked in my head. I was like, well, if I'm getting enough work on the side to support myself, why am I working for somebody else? So that's when I decided that I would quit my job and try the freelance life. And it was kind of just at a point in time where my wife and I, who, by the way, I married my wife straight out of college as well. So she's with me this whole time. But it was right about then, about five years into our marriage that we decided we wanted to try to have a kid. And so I quit my job, came home to be freelance and then my wife got pregnant about a month or so later, which was perfect timing because then I got to be home with her the whole time that she was pregnant. I've been with my son every day of his life with a few exceptions of traveling on weekends or something, but I've been able to stay at home this whole time. And since then, my career has kind of transitioned even further because I was primarily freelancing, supplementing my income with Skillshare. And Skillshare was growing the more classes I made, the bigger, you know, portion of my income came from that. Eventually, Joey from school emotion kind of caught wind of me as a teacher. And he's like, hey, do you want to come teach on our, like, make a tutorial for our free section of the website? I was like, sure, I would love to do that. I mean, I say that really calmly. I was excited be like out of my mind to be teaching for Joey because I learned so much from him. So I taught for him on the regular part of his website, just a couple of tutorials there. And then he asked me if I'd build a course for him. And so I spent almost a full year building explainer camp, which is a course I did for them that is kind of a project based course where you make an explainer video from start to finish. But I'm not teaching you animation and design. I'm giving you a place to apply your design and animation skills and instead teaching more of how to handle a client and how to handle a job on a large scale. And we go from, you know, from the initial phone call all the way to the final delivery. So that was a really big undertaking. It took almost a year. But now I've, I've got a pretty great relationship with school of motion and I'm working on another course for them. Skillshare has become my largest form of income. So even just recently in the last few months, I've decided that I would stop freelancing for the time being at least. And I'm pursuing teaching full time. So I'm, I've actually just recently started a YouTube channel to try and start building my own little kind of corner of the internet where I'm teaching some free content and then building any Skillshare classes and courses for school motion. So that was a lot of talking. But that, that pretty much brings us to where we are. And it's so encouraging because you're such a young guy and you've done so much. It's interesting how you kind of went to different routes. First you kind of got plugged into Skillshare and other platforms and then now you're starting your own kind of growing your own channel and stuff. It's so cool. Just so encouraging listening to your story. There's so much that want to get into just within that. You know, you mentioned your wife being a, I believe her name is Jamie, right? She's very talented. Graphic designer checked out the website, her website. She's very talented. And I learned, you know, you said that she's a teacher on Skillshare as well. And she's not just a teacher, but she's a top teacher with like 1000 followers. Very impressive stuff like obviously teaching and runs in your family. And you know, I've always, I've always heard people say that behind every successful man as a woman, we're rolling her eyes, right? But how much, how much of an influence did Jamie play in your career as a motion designer and a teacher? Yeah, I mean, that couldn't be a truer statement in my situation. I wouldn't be teaching on Skillshare if it wasn't for her actually because she's the one who found Skillshare. She's really into hand lettering. That's kind of her passion now. And back in, I think it was 2014, maybe even 2013. It was early in the Skillshare development. They didn't have, I mean, they have, they had a lot of classes, nothing compared to what they have now. But there was this one big class that they had been promoting coming up on how to teach hand lettering or how to do hand lettering. And so she, she kind of signed up for that. And she said, Hey, Jake, you should check this out and see if you want to take any of the classes. And so I looked and there were only like maybe three or four classes that had anything to do with animation. And I took one of them and I was like, you know what? This might be, this might be fun to try out sometime because I thought, I always thought that I would enjoy teaching. I just never really saw it as a way to make money. I didn't know how that could be a profitable thing. But I was like, well, maybe this could be a way to get a little bit of extra income on the side and have some fun doing it. But I kind of just put it off until they were, this is my little dirty, dirty little secret of the reason I got into it is because they ran a teach challenge where all I had to do was submit a proposal for a class. And I would be entered into contest to win a MacBook Air. Yeah, there's some motivation. And I ended up winning. And they helped me build the course after that. I mean, in terms of, you know, coordinating with their team and just making sure that I had everything I needed. But they, that was kind of the moment of, well, I won shoot. Now, I have to actually make the glass. But that ended up being one of the most important things that I ever did in my career because I wouldn't be teaching today for anyone if it wasn't for that. And it all, yeah, like I said, all came from my wife just encouraging me to do it. And on a day-to-day basis, I mean, she, it's great because her major was graphic design and my minor was graphic design and then they swapped like her minor was cinema and my major was cinema. So yeah, exactly. And we met in college. So anytime that she makes a class, which she usually focuses on Photoshop or illustration or hand lettering, if she needs something animated like her class trailer or something, all to be the one to animate it. And if I need something that looks really, really nice, well designed title or something for my class, she'll make it for me and then I'll animate it. So, yeah, it's a very collaborative. Yeah. And by the way, your work just, it looks amazing, man. It's very clean. Oh, thank you. It's awesome. And I can definitely see a little bit of her work in your work. It's just awesome. Like I love how when families work together. And I always say that my wife is my wisdom. So if she's listening. Yeah. Now, something else I learned from listening to your podcast interview with Joey that you have a son. How old is your son? He is about to be three years old. Wow. So I have a two and a half year old as well. I have a five year old and a two and a half year old. And his name is Elliot. Just like yours, right? Oh, no kidding. Joey has an Elliot. So do you have an Elliot night with me? Do you guys spell Elliot with two teas or one tea? Just one. One, same here. That's pretty sweet. Now, there's something else that you, something else that you've mentioned that let me go back to you said something about working like tight deadlines. And that's something that's interesting because most people will think of tight deadlines as something is negative. Like, oh, man, I got this tight deadline. But it's amazing how helpful it is. Like, you know, there's this Parkinson's law, I believe that's what the name of it is. Like the work expands so as to fill the time of hell before it's completion. Like, so if you say you have this long deadline, a short deadline, usually the same amount of work will go into the two. So sometimes it's better to have really tight deadlines. What's what's your take on that? I can totally see situations where it is better. Especially, I mean, you can think about it with personal projects. If you're if you're going to work on something for yourself, your biggest critic and you have no deadline, then you may never finish a project. So I follow Peter McKinnon on YouTube. He's a photographer vlogger. Yeah, he's amazing. And he he just recently was talking about how it it's kind of really helpful that like he knows on Tuesdays, he has to post a video and on Fridays, he has to post a video. So sometimes Thursday night comes along and he doesn't know what he's going to do. But you know, I can't remember the exact wording. I think he said it's better to be finished than perfect. I think is what he said, but just being able to hold himself to posting something by Friday and hitting that upload button and then just moving on to the next thing is great. In in the case of the that job that I worked, the first job that I had, it was actually really nice to have that tight deadline because a couple months in, I'd say even a couple of weeks in, we realized what we could spend time on. And when we had to just say, you know, move on to the next shot because it had to be done so that it could go to sound design before it went up on Yahoo the next morning. And it actually worked out really great because we kind of just became this well oiled machine where each of us would get a half the episode and we make sure that they lined up in the middle. But because of that, we were working a job in LA starting at around 9 a.m. and sometimes being done by five, which is kind of unheard of for the entertainment industry in LA. So having those those rules and those constrictions can definitely help you. I don't know if on that particular show it, it made things better, but it allowed us to to really hone in on on what was important to the client and making sure that we were focusing on on the right things. Well, it's true because like when there's a tight deadline, you don't second guess yourself, you kind of go with your first instinct. Anyway, I thought I'd ask you that. Also, I thought it was interesting that you mentioned that speaking is something that didn't come natural to you, which is surprising because you're such a great speaker. Now, how did you overcome that? Oh, man, I mean, I guess the nerves part of it, there's two different parts of it. The nerves of speaking, whether it's into a microphone or in front of people, I've just gotten used to. That's just something that I think takes practice. The microphone is just totally natural to me now. It doesn't feel weird having that in front of me or even looking into a camera. That doesn't really bother. I think that's just something it takes time to get used to that. The part that I still struggle with to this day is just figuring out how to say what's in my head clearly. And that's where yeah, yeah. And that's where a lot of people are surprised because of if you've ever watched one of my Skillshare classes, it seems like I'm just talking and I have everything planned out and I know it all by heart and it's just coming out so perfectly naturally. Where in reality, if you looked at my timeline in Premiere, you would be amazed by the number of edits. I've spliced together sentences before. I mean, I have a hard time making it through even just two sentences without requiring an edit because that's kind of a bar that I set from myself when I started teaching. Things that bothered me from from other tutorials that I watched was when somebody wasn't prepared or they hadn't run through what they were trying to teach beforehand. So they run into an issue and they don't know how to solve it and then I'm just stuck sitting there watching them. Yeah. And it just seemed like a lot of people that were making tutorials didn't think that was a big deal. And in reality, they're putting this content out for free. So, you know, I get what I pay for. But, you know, I've know nothing to complain about. But on Skillshare, since people are paying money to see my classes, I wanted to make sure that my classes were absolutely 100% content. So, I edit everything. I don't have any ums. I don't have any long pauses. If I'm not happy with the delivery of a line, I'll just redo that line until I'm happy 100% with it and then I'll move on. So, the editing part of the production process is actually probably, it's probably more time consuming than the recording just because of how much I edit. But the goal is to just deliver 100% content in a pacing that is easy to follow and comprehend. Yeah. You know, I watched Sergei pretty much just being to the point of tears when he was working on the expression scores because, you know, you don't really, tutorials is one thing. But when you work on a course and there's an outline and you constantly have to rerecord, I remember he would to call me one time. He was like, "Dude, I've been rerecording just one sentence for the last hour." Because he kept messing up. Yeah. And you're just saying this is too much. So, I guess, you know, the amount of time and effort goes into creating course. So, hats off to you for creating so many of them. And man, I can't imagine how many times you probably just wanted to quit and just, you know, not make another one. But thank you so much for not doing that. And, you know, it does build character. And there's something about just pressing record and just go for it. Like you said, you know, it doesn't always feel natural speaking in front of the microphone, being in front of the camera. And, you know, English is my fourth language. I can't give them up with like a million reasons as to why I shouldn't be doing a podcast, you know. But if you want to get better, if you want to get better, you just got to get out there and do it. And with you, you're going to suck at first, not going to be really good at it. But the more you do it, the better speaker you become. And you start realizing that the arms and the likes and the, you know, and all that stuff and start working on those things. So you got to start somewhere. Right. That's right. Yep. And I want to circle back to something else. You said, you talked about how in the beginning with School of Motion, Joey had this pitch. And it was so convincing. You know, it's interesting. I had Kyle Martinez. Do you know who that is? Yeah. I had Kyle Martinez on. And he said the same thing. He said that, Joey's pitch in the beginning was so convincing that he would decide to try it out. So, Joey must be really, really, really good at pitching. Yeah. He's an amazing, that's the, the nice thing though is that he, he delivers. He's not just making a bunch of empty promises, but his content delivers what he says is going. No, in his quality, man, I love his, I love everything in School of Motion. And it's interesting because you're talking about, you know, teaching my high school coach, she was a soccer coach. You always said that if you want to become a better, well, soccer player at the time, but better anything, you start to start teaching somebody else something. And you will become, because you'll have a different perspective on things. Would you agree with that? And did it help you at all become a better mushy graphics or a motion design? Oh, man. Yeah, 100%. In terms of becoming a better motion designer, it absolutely helps because it's pushing me to come up with new things to teach. That's where the majority of my Skillshare classes even come from is just me playing around it after effects and thinking of what could be a cool thing to make. Or sometimes I'm just making personal projects and I realize, oh, hey, that would be a great thing to teach on Skillshare. So it's motivating me to push myself to try new things. But at the same time, when I actually have to sit down and outline my course, whatever it is and think, okay, how am I going to teach this? I have to think through all the steps of what the person watching the class has to know if they're going to follow. So I, you know, I have to think one about what level am I teaching to. So if it's a beginner's class, I can't really assume that they know keyboard shortcuts that well. Across the board, I generally say what keyboard shortcuts I'm using. So that might not be a great example. But I do try to think of, am I going to be dumbing it down too much if this is more of an advanced course? Like I don't want to constantly be saying things like to save press command S or, you know, copy with control C. So outline in the course helps me think about how the viewer needs to interpret it. But it also pushes me to think of the absolute best way that I can imagine doing something. And that's something that I've, I think, has been super valuable to me just as a motion designer because I don't want to teach bad habits. And I don't want to teach something, you know, method or technique that's more complex than it needs to be. So a lot of times I'll even come up with an idea. I guess an example I can think of is I made a class called the knit sweater look in After Effects. And it was just a very simple procedural effect where you can put in your artwork or whatever you want into a pre-comp. And then in the main render comp, it will look like it's a knit sweater. And you can control the size of the knitting and all this stuff. But that particular project, I didn't, I wanted to keep it as simple as possible with making it look as good as possible. So that really challenged me to eliminate as many steps as possible. Take out, you know, create this effect with as few effects as possible while still making it look pretty authentic. So it pushes me in that way as well. And I think that that's been super valuable to me as a motion designer. Now you're talking about habits. What is some of your personal habits that contribute to your success? That's a good question. Do you have a morning routine or anything like that you follow every day? Well, yeah, sure. I have to start with a cup of coffee. There you go. I never considered myself a morning person, but after I got married, I think I realized that I kind of am and my wife isn't. We both have our morning coffee, but it's pretty much as soon as I have my coffee, I'm ready to go. And since having our, our, our first son, I kind of learned that I can't just jump on on the computer and start reading through emails and planning out my day. Like I have to have a morning. So I have to kind of slow myself down a little bit, but that's kind of when I'm most productive is in the first half of the day. And it didn't always used to be that way. I feel like it was more of the afternoon. It would go up and down my productivity throughout the day, but in the current state, like more of my life is right now as a teacher, kind of living a lifestyle where I eat lunch with my family and we go to the grocery store together and things like that. I work for maybe about four hours in the morning. And that's the biggest portion of my, my production or productive productivity in the day. I'll have a lunch break and then work for a couple more hours in the afternoon, have another cup of coffee and then maybe finish up and I'm usually done by five. So my routine is very, I feel like it's pretty laid back compared to most because like I said, I'm not pursuing freelance anymore. It's all about teaching. So I have a luxury that I think a lot of people don't in that sense. But in terms of the success that I found through teaching, at least, I think that the 100% content concept that I had of not putting in anything in my classes that isn't going to teach you something has really contributed a lot to my success. I started a YouTube channel recently and obviously a lot of my skillshare following probably came over from that, but it's gotten a very positive response. And I think that's just another, you know, it's affirmation that my teaching style has worked that people respond to and that they're actually learning from it. And I mean, that's my ultimate desire. I want people to learn and have fun while they're watching my tutorials. So yeah, you know, you're talking about coffee. It's interesting. I don't even talk to my wife until she gets her first couple. It's definitely not a morning person. Now, and it's interesting because both you and your wife are teachers and I know that you came from, you have a home, you were a homeschool, right? Yes. Were you homeschool all the way through to college or how? I was. Oh, wow. So my last two years of high school, I went to, it was called the Career Tech Center, and they kind of had different departments where you could learn kind of a profession. So there was like a engineering department. There was a childcare department and a kind of like a pre-nursing school department, but I went to the, it was called the Visual Imaging Technology. And that's where I learned graphic design and illustrator. And I improved my skills in Photoshop. And I even got to, they had printing presses there. So I learned a lot about the print world and how that works. That's helpful. And then yeah, the second year I moved on to video. They kind of just started doing that as an option. And so I moved into shooting videos and editing. But that was pretty much the only non-home schooled education that I had. That's pretty impressive because yourself taught pretty much. You had to learn how to teach yourself. And I'm curious because like right now we have two kids and my wife is like researching all the homeschooling options. We're going to probably homeschool our kids. Now, is this something that you're going to do? You're going to, since both of you guys are really teachers, it probably makes sense to teach. But I'm curious with your background with this is kind of like a personal question. But is this something you're going to do as well? Or is it you're just going to send them to a private school? Yeah, it's a conversation that my wife and I are both are having on an ongoing basis. And we haven't decided yet. I think we're going to start definitely preschool and kindergarten. See how the public school system works. I really like the flexibility of having homeschooled kids so that we can travel. We can do whatever we want. But at the same time, everything that we teach is creative. And I was not a very successful student. A math is like my worst subject. I almost failed biology and college and chemistry made no sense to me. So I'm very intimidated about just that whole world of academics. And I mean, I realize that I'm not the one who has to have all the knowledge. There are curriculums you can buy to teach your students. So it's not out of the question, but it still is up in the air. We have a girl on the way. And so yeah, the whole education world has been on our minds a lot. But I don't know. I feel like I could explain education like all the subjects to my son. If I had to, but I don't think it's going to be anything like teaching of animation one day. Right. Well, that's cool because this is something that's so relevant for us right now. Man, we're back and forth. My wife is like stressing out. She's researching all these different curriculums and all that stuff. But anyway, shifting gears now. I have a couple of questions from the community. Man, I wish I can pronounce his name. I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce his first name, but his last name is Sharma. And he wants to know what is the next, what is next in motion graphics is minimal slash flat design there to stay or something new is on the verge. What are your thoughts on that? Oh, wow. That I mean, I guess my guess is as good as any. I think that trends are just kind of like waves, you know, like you ride them and then something else comes up. Currently, I feel like, yeah, the 2D flat 2D look is super hot, but at the same time, so many studios are doing cell animation and, and you know, this hand done textured look that you just can't get using shape layers and after effects. I don't know. I mean, I don't know if it's going to be eliminated. I don't think it's going to be going away because there are so many companies out there who need things like explainer videos and they are not in the creative industry at all. And they see other explainer videos in that style. So they're going to request that you make something like that 2D flat vector style. So I don't think it's going to disappear, but I think that like any kind of trend, something is going to come along that kind of disrupts everything and everybody kind of latches on to. I'm seeing a lot more use of gradients lately. Gradients, my entire career have kind of been frowned upon, but I'm starting to see him pop up all over the place. So I don't know, maybe. You'll all circle back around one day eventually. So not another question is from Pablo Baron. I hope I'm pronouncing it. If I'm putting in your name, I'm sorry. And he wants to know how do you come up with new concepts? That, it usually is just from experimentation. Playing around in after effects like a toy, you know, having fun, looking at other people's work and finding something interesting. A good example is I made a tutorial on YouTube of how to do kind of a 2D, wispy, wavy hair, or you could use it for smoke. Just using the wavewarp effect and a couple of other effects stacked on each other. And that came about just from seeing all of these really cool studios like Odd Fellows and Giant Ant that are doing a lot of cell animation, drawing every frame by hand and I think I saw a rocket taking off. And there was this really cool wavy smoke that was coming out. And I thought to myself, how could I make something that looks similar to that, but using after effects and filters? And so I just kind of challenged myself and I kept mixing and matching effects and trying to think of ways to make it look more hand done. And eventually, I was pretty happy with the result. I made a couple of examples and turned it into a tutorial and people seemed to like it. So yeah, it really is just a matter of playing around and having fun. I think that's where my best idea has come from is when I realized that I'm starting to have fun with something is when I know that somebody else is going to enjoy it too. So true, so true. And in closing, let's talk about your Photoshop and Illustrator Unleashed course. I tell us a little about it and how can people sign up for it. Yeah, so Photoshop and Illustrator Unleashed is a course for people who have pretty much no experience with Photoshop or Illustrator. Because what we've realized is that a lot of motion designers are making their art directly in After Effects and they don't allow themselves to use the tools that are in Photoshop and Illustrator because they don't know they're there and they don't know how to use them. That's super limiting to yourself as a motion designer because Illustrator is such a better tool at handling vector artwork than After Effects is and Photoshop is so much better at manipulating pixels than After Effects is. So this course is to teach people who have no experience with any Adobe software at all, how to use Photoshop and Illustrator from the perspective of motion design and moving into motion design. But it's also for motion designers who have plenty of experience in After Effects but need to brush up their skills in Photoshop and Illustrator. So it's really going to teach you the fundamentals of all the tools that you need to use, how to get your artwork into After Effects, and just how to actually prepare your artwork in a way that's going to make sense for motion design. So like I said, it's a beginner's course but it can really be taken by anyone who just needs to have a better grip on Photoshop and Illustrator. That sounds good. You know, it's funny because Sergei actually, you know, we do the featured image for the podcast and Sergei always uses After Effects to put it together. I always tell like, dude, why does this have Photoshop? It's like, "God, dude, I'm just, I don't know, man, I'm just so used to After Effects and I don't know." He may not be that good at Photoshop anymore after all those years using After Effects. But hey, man, thank you so much for having, for being a guest on our podcast, man. How can people get in touch with you? Oh, it's my pleasure, man. You can find me anywhere on social media at Jake and Motion. That's my handle across the board. If you want to send me a message, just send it to Jake at Jakeandmotion.com. But yeah, you can find me all over the place at Jake and Motion. All right. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jake Bartlett. Make sure to check out Jakeandmotion.com and go to schoolofmotion.com/courses to find out more about Jake's upcoming course. All the links and resources mentioned in this episode are also available on our website at uchermedia.com/29. And while you're there, check out our course on After Effects Expressions. Over six hours of content, all for you, go to uchermedia.com/expressions for more information. Don't forget to join our online mentoring group on Facebook. Simply go to uchermedia.com/community. We have well over 2,000 people in this group. It is a great online resource for those of you trying to grow. And it's absolutely free. Thank you so much for joining me on the journey of this podcast. I appreciate you and I look forward to serving you in the next episode of "If You can Media Piles" guys. Bye-bye.