Interview: Steve Parker Fidens Brewing

Welcome to massive beers, my name's Matt, and I will be heading up north from North Jersey to visit with a little bit of Albany beer goodness and a form of fighting brewing. It's more specifically Steve from Fidens. It's been a while since we've hit the road and got out and about and visited some breweries and late September has pegged for a trip to meet up with a bunch of friends at Albany. You could do a bunch of beer things and decided to reach out to a couple brewers along the way. And naturally Steve was one of them and he was absolutely 100% on board for jumping on and it was a fun time. This was recorded in late September and it took me a little bit longer to get out as you may notice during the interview a reference trying to get this out during our anniversary, a little bit of a tall order, like children all night. But we sat down and had a great conversation over some beers and talked about, you know, beer in general but his specific beer journey from, you know, being a beer lover, beer line waiter and beer junkie, I like most brewery and open his own brewery that is on everybody's top of mind when it comes to a lot of different styles but more specifically the easy games. So sit down, relax and enjoy our conversation with Steve from Fightin's. Yeah, we took their technique drulspoil and then put it back in the mash and it was totally new for shit. Your first vlogger? First this is the first one we have ever done. Ever done? Yeah. I love it. We want to go tomorrow. There's a couple of tweaks I want to make to it but do you have the space to do longer? Yeah, without tying up too much of your stuff? Yeah, yeah. I can rate right now. We got a lot of tech so I can start really messing around. I want to start really doing other styles, say songs and whatnot stuff and that's where I'm at. Yeah, well, you know, you got to expand. Well, you have to. You have to expand but you also have to be able to expand. So you got to do what you need to do in order to be able to do the things that you want to do in the future. I hear you, dude. For those who don't know, welcome to the old podcast sitting there with Steve from Fightin's What's Gone On, homie. What are you doing? I'm exhausted but you're also exhausted. Very exhausted. Why are you exhausted? We just got back from Hop Harvest so we spent six days on the West Coast selecting our hops. Got in late last night. What's it, you know, what's it like, like, you know, predominantly brewing like hop forward beers and going from like trying to get what you can get to it now, being like, people are probably like, hey, come check us out, like you get a little, there's doors open now. So from, because you, what, what's your university's this weekend? Three years, three years. How is that evolved? Just a whole, just hops the load from your procurement and how you used them and how it changed from good now? Yeah. So again, when we first opened it was, it was get what you can get, spot hops. Then these hop, the hop salesmen, I guess, they started hearing about us, they started approaching us, getting a little better lots, started working with freestyle hops out of New Zealand. Their Sean Hill was kind of like the first one to really kind of work with them and when he came to me, he said, yeah, we work with Sean Hill, I say, yeah, I don't know what you guys are. Yes. Let's work together. You don't have to ask me any questions, you know what I mean? And you got those hops and it was mind blowing the difference from just, I'll just say Nelson, Nelson is probably one of our people who enjoy our Nelson beers here and they, it took a huge jump from just getting that quality, you know, a lot of times when you're just getting spot, you're getting blended, yeah, blended stuff that other people don't pick. So they just kind of blend it out together to make it uniform, it's a bad thing, but it's not, you can't, you really don't have that control of what you're looking for in your hop. And if you're looking for like really a profile, you're just kind of, not that you're stuck with it, but it tends to be a little bit kind of muddle, not muddled, but just it's not generic. It says you don't have that pop. Yeah, you don't have that pop. Right, you don't have that pop, you know, you got a sensory every bag, you got to smell every bag before you put it in, you know, like I just say, even when we were out there, we were picking and citra, they gave us like four, four lots we could choose from. And you'd have to do it completely blind. You don't have to, but we chose to do it blind. And so we went around and we picked and there was one that just stood out like it was very like onion garlic, oh, yeah, that's not what we're looking for. So you really see that nowadays, you know what I mean, I was like surprised to even hear that. Yeah. So we went around and we decided on a lot then after they show you, and that lot was picked two days after the lot. Yeah. So it's just crazy. Two days, two days. Two days, two days. Two days, two days, two days. Yeah. That was pretty wild. It learned a lot when I was out there. Simco for me was the star of the, it was amazing. Yeah. Simco crop. Really, really, really nice. Well, and you guys, I mean, don't shy away from bitterness. You know, one of the, you know, the new thing on Hazeys, whatever you want to call it. People like, you know, people love your beers, but it's like, you know, you're not trying to drop out all that bitter. No. You know what I mean? Simco can get a little bit, you know what I mean? Simco can be bitter. Yeah. And also be like, we got peach. I mean, just. Yeah. Yeah. Just peach. I miss a lot of Simco that we picked, so I'm, I'm super, super stoked. Yeah. You're already kind of like churning and, you know, like you're going to be doing and stuff like that? Yeah. For sure. Yeah. The, um, what's the ride been like just in general from the opening till now? Oh, as you're, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're a line waiter. You're like, I love chugging beers. I love chugging Hazeys. You want to open your brewery. What's that, that, that flip, that juxtaposition of being, you know, you did that now the people do it to you. It's kind of wild. It is. Uh, it's wild. You know, it's very flattering. It's very grateful to see people that come here and travel. We've got to meet like so many people from around this country and, uh, got to go places. And it's just been, it's been fast, man. It's been, you know, we opened small tap room. Um, I was only brewing once a week. COVID hit. So we said, well, let's just shut it down. Yeah, beer to go. I was a teacher, Fizzette teacher. So during COVID, I wasn't doing much. Yeah. I had a laptop, I had to check in. And that is allowed me to start brewing more. We could be open more days, some more beer, get more, you know, get more tanks and, uh, but it's got to be, it's got to be weird because then, you know, you just open your brewing and you're like, okay, no, I can't sell my beer really. You can, but then like, you flip the script and do just to go, but you have that kind of like, people like wanting your stuff while you have the tap room open or do you think at the time, when you, when it flipped, it kind of made it a little more kind of crazy. We always had, our business model was always kind of like that old school tree house health fund to open was stay small, mostly beer to go. People come in, have a couple beers, take your, you need growlers, take your growlers home. And then that, that's how it works. So when COVID hit, it wasn't like a huge, like, oh my God, what are we going to do? Uh, it was like, okay, it was kind of just stick to our plan and we were, then we bought a Crowler machine and we were Crowler, I mean, everything in my hand, uh, about 21 to 28 barrels. We, geez, dude, of Crowler. And that was, we did that for a year straight, and then we got the canning line and that's one of the things just kind of people are sleeping in the parking lot because we were only open on Saturdays, and we only really had enough beer for that one day. Yeah, yeah. So people would get here. I mean, our staff was getting here at five, thirty six a.m. on a Saturday. But now you're open, was it what, was it through Saturday, and like, for example, like this week, you know, like, do you, are you still like, sell out completely? No, no, we make enough beer. I mean, we do. Because you do drops outside of here. It's not like you just do, you don't do a ton, but, you know, we just, we do, the only, the only drops that we do is stuff that we, as on as we say, you know what, let's try to put some, because there's still a lot of people that don't know who we are. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, you know what, and we have all these sales reps, and we're like, hey, you want to put a pallet for us, like, we just didn't want to mass, like, hey, you want to still want to mass. So it's got to be work with Joe. He's like, you know, so he'll just take a couple of cases and he'll sprinkle it around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just to get people, like you said, like, people find out each other, I know my one friend, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I might regularly, you know what I mean? Like, once a month or something like that. And then you, you know. The craziest thing about it is that you have to find a balance between people wanting to be here and people actually getting to be here because if everybody wants it, they can't get it. And then it's just like they get frustrated with it. You don't even like there. It's like, yeah, whatever, screw that, I can't get it. But you actually can't be here in the people's hands. It's not like you don't want people to have it and make it all sacred and sacred. Exactly. That was not a plan. Because as a beer fan yourself, it's kind of like you have to find some kind of balance because you know you want people to drink your beer. And at the same time, you can't make it, you can't like the business model you have and where you are at as a brewery. It's not like you can do like huge production stuff. Because what size barrel is this? Seven barrel system. Yeah, and how many fermenters? We have 10, 7, 6, 15s. And how often do you brew? Every day. One day through Friday, twice. No, almost. And then like you're talking about your anniversary that's coming up. It's coming up. When is it next week? Next week. Which would be what's the date on it? Our anniversary would be September 28th. No, you're just going to do like every day do different kinds of stuff. Yeah, we have some really fun stuff coming up. We're really excited. We've met a lot of fun people in this industry. And you know, we have some fun stuff coming up. Yeah, we do different drops every day. Yeah, what are you most excited about? We got a really good style coming up. It's probably one of my favorite styles we have done. What's it all about? It's a collab with HState. And it is coconut almonds and cow nubs. We've been really working hard on our base on our style. We don't brew a lot. I mean, we are going to start brewing. You're going to see a lot of different styles coming out of us. You know, I would say the next six months is going to be a big transition for our business. We got some stuff going on that I really can't talk about right now. But hopefully in like hopefully in like about a month we can share with people. That you're going to see things change for the better. And I'm really excited about it. But you know, we've been working on a lot of stuff. We've got some beer and barrels now. We, you know, it's just the reason that people are like, oh, you just brew hops. And it's like, I get that. And hops is what hops is the style that we love. And that's the style that we want to do. But like during the pandemic, we're anywhere. I only have so many tanks. I can turn them hops over in 17 to 21 days. Other styles take a little while. And now that we have more tank space. I can start spanking. Yes. I'm excited about it. What's the, we're, what were your roots? Like we're just straight home brew and then just. Home brew. Yeah. I just, we made our own system. Our, our first logo with the three vessels. Yeah. If you look at the cans, you usually see that's on most of the cans. Yeah. That was on our really like our early cans. We've kind of drifted towards like the fight ins kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of done that and then it's a just home brew for a while. Beer for home brew. I was like, this is actually tasting pretty good. I used to, I'd make a tank Island batch. And I would put it in a little growl or 16 ounce growlers. And I would score around. Just handed it. Like, you know, beer people that I knew that would be honest with me. And they're like, at first they're like, I don't want to say that. And they're like, yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah. Okay. And then, and then my, I'm out of the partner, Tim. And there was another partner. He's not with us anymore. He laughing. You kind of was like, let's go for it. And we were self-funded. So, I mean, we just kind of went out and got what we could afford. The reason we had this space over there now, it was the cheapest we could find. Because we wanted to put all the money into the equipment. Because we knew that beer, the beer's good, it will sell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, beautiful fancy places, all fun and games. It is. But if the product sucks, who's going to come and sit in it? Right. And that's what I was kind of like that drive. And then, just started to work here for about a year, doing both teaching and teaching and brewing. And then, you got to the point where I just couldn't teach anymore. Yeah. You know, like you said, you'd do more than just like happy forward, hazy stuff. But was there a, but you're known for that. Like a lot of people do know, and you love those beers like you just said. Was there like a trick? Well, what's the thing you think made your beers, your hazy beers be? People dig on them. Like, was there a specific thing that you were like, okay, this is for us. This is like, not, you don't have to give secrets, obviously. No, I had a water chemistry thing. Was it a lot of happening with like, or a timing thing on hops? Like for you, what was your big thing for you? I mean, it was just a lot of experimentation. I brewed so many home brew batches. I mean, would try everything. Try this, try that. And then, of course, then, when you get here, and you brew on a, I don't know. You know, on the first, yeah. Professional. Air quotes. Professional. As a home brew, the first time I was like, okay, here we go. And I was, my first batch came out terrible. You know, it just doesn't scale to like home brew to the, it just, it doesn't scale. And then, so it was just a lot of raps. And then it was just, I got to say, man, I read about every book. I listened to every podcast of the brewers that I, and, and then they were like, I almost feel they were like, they were talking their process. And at first, I didn't really know what they were talking about. And then, as I got into this, I'd like, I've been going. I've got that. I've got that. I've got that. You're like, okay, now I understand. I understand that. I understand what this, this, that means. I understand what that means. I would say water chemistry. A book, I got this from, it was an interview with John Kimmich. It was a brewing log of beer by Greg Newton. Okay. And in that book, it's extensive water chemistry. And it's not just, it's not just, it goes into ails as well. Yeah. There was some things in there and I was like, ooh, I like what he's saying in there. So like, then I kind of put that approach to, to our beer here with our water chemistry. And it worked. And then Scott Janice is like a huge influence of mine. We've done some beers with Scott. We're actually going down at the end of October. They're doing a stout. We're working with them on that. So I'm excited with that. And Scott Janice, that book, the new IPA book that he came out. I think every buddy that likes a style should read that book. Yeah. It's just that, it's always like mandatory. He just lays it out. And then it's like, and we had this conversation, he's like, I want to give you the information. And then you take it and then you kind of go where you want with it. Yeah, I'm arming you with the ammunition. Like you fired your way. How does that like, and that's a question I wanted to ask because it's like, you fine tune your, your beer so well, like you talk about like diving in the other styles, like doing collaborations. Yeah. When you get, so do you find yourself getting set in your way through, you get nervous, venturing out if you can comfort zone with different stuff? Like your process, your process, or you're all, like you're always one of them. As far as like hops, you mean the whole process. Yeah, I mean, I was like, when we do like collabs, obviously we sit down and be taught recipe. A lot of times like collabs is like, all right, well, we talk recipe, then we do a little bit of this and a little bit of that. I like to try it. I'm very set in my ways. I know like, but it's a collab. And I'm like, all right, let's just try it. And sometimes I like it. Sometimes I don't. But I'm excited to venture out into different styles. I mean, like right now we're sipping on like our first, our first pills. Italian pills that came out, I'm excited. I want to tweak it. I want to dive a little more into that. Like I said, I want to, I want to get into the showers. And I want to get into, you know, big ol' aging showers, barely sazons and all that stuff, which will come. So I'm excited actually, right? Yeah. I love a challenge. I love to dive into stuff. And plus we have a lot of friends in this industry that I know if I just say, hey man, I have a quick question. There you go. And they do the same thing. Well, that's like, hey, what do you do with this? No problem, dude. Got you. And now it's like the one thing about this industry is like, yeah, is there secrets? I don't think everybody gives away everything. Yeah. But they help. And it's been awesome. What, um, what a, like when you were getting into this or even now today, like what turns you on when it comes to beer? Do you drink everything or is there specific stuff that you grab? Oh, me, low alcohol. Yeah, fuck you, dude. I'm a low alcohol guy. I used to be, give me the eight. You want to drink beer now? I don't want to have one can and I'm like, my god, I got to stop. No, it's low alcohol. It's, uh, I love, I love, uh, I actually right now the style that's really, uh, I like is like West, West Coast. Because you just did your first Westie, right? We've done a couple. Okay. We've done like four or five Westies. And it's the first one sold okay. And then I, then I mean, it sold. And then I kept getting, uh, beer like, no, I was really good. Man, thanks for making it. It was so different. It was clean. And then I was like, yeah, the second one came sold. So now it's like one of the, it's one of the probably top two or three. When it comes out, it's usually sold out. Yeah. is one of your favorite beers you've ever made, yeah? - Oh, I don't know, but every May, but right now it's like drinking wise, like what's A-D-V-V on it? - The one we have now is a 5.5, it's a West Coast Pale. We got Wong called from Diego to the Bay, which is like seven and a half. I fell in love like with that style, I would say, maybe a year ago. - Did you take a trip out west? - Yeah, to San Diego, and North Park makes some of the best West Coast. So Kelsey, I was out there, and I'm like, dude, this is different than the old school West Coast. We're like a little more malt presence. - Yeah. - This is just hops, and a clean, crisp, drinkable format, just hops. And I was like, what are you doing? And he's just like, here. He's a lesbian, try it. I was like, thanks dude. (laughs) - Now, let's put it, did you come back and verbatim that? Or did you, because I assume your system's probably different. You have to tweak. I mean, it was when I say recipes, basically. Here's my grams, here's what we do for grain. Here's, you know, hop it like this, try this. You know, obviously, everything is, you know, no two brewers are gonna make the same beer, alike. So, we have our twist, our process, our systems are different. But it was, I love it. - How was it evolved from like the first? - Oh, it's the third. - Oh, yeah, first one was like, first one like, I found the style, I think the first one was like, eight point four percent or something like that. And I'm like, it's good, but I think the style really shines in like that. Seven. - Yeah. - Seven and a half and below. - Yeah. - That's why I think the style shines. I think if you get a little higher in alcohol, a little more sweetness comes out. - Yeah, it's a little bit just a little bit too, kind of like hard candy sweetness and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So, that's kind of one of my style. I love pails, hazy pails, pilsas, lagers. You know, we were just out there and I was drinking Portland as a huge, huge lager down. And it was nice. I mean, it makes every brewery we went to was phenomenal. And then especially it's wet hops season. So they're doing fresh hot beers, which I blew my mind. - And then like, what's it been like for you up here? Like, you're Northwest Albany, you're kind of, you're outside of what I call the Hudson Valley area. You're kind of out here on your own. Is there a ton of breweries out this way? - There is. - There is, yeah, there's a bunch of breweries out this way. - Yeah. And how's like this area, like have you found that like, a lot of people in this area were like, were they be your hungry prior to you opening? Or have you kind of, - I think this area is kind of turned into, you know what I mean? I think this area has always been kind of a really good beer area. - Yeah. - It's a, I mean, a lot of people from here were driving an hour and a half, two hours to three hours all the time. - Yeah. - I was one of them. - Yeah. - And then a bunch of other breweries started popping up that would make a really quality beer and people weren't making that truck anymore. - Yeah. - And I think it was, it was, you know, it was an area that, as I always loved beer, it was kind of like, I'll not say I'm tapped, but it wanted more breweries. And now there's a lot of good breweries in the area. - Yeah. - It's gotta be, what's I gonna say? - Like, what's it like as like a beer drinker, the person that's driving a tree house, the person that's driving all those places. Now that you're doing the collabs with them, it's gotta be kind of a little bit surreal, you know? - Yeah, like not the safe and boy, but it's like, you know, you have your moments. - Yeah. - And like, you know, you love these people now. It's more like, like, oh shit. You know, I'm making beer with this person. And then you get to see like a little bit of the behind the curtain stuff. Like even as a brewer, like, you know, some of these brews can be while open about, some process can be kind of like, kind of off put with, I don't wanna show you everything, but when you get to see a little bit more of the inside, like how has that been kind of going through that process? - No, it's been cool. I mean, we worked, I think we worked with equilibrium. Was that a first collab? - I don't. - I think it might have been like a first collab. And that was like, and then we started working on other half. We're close with other half. Sam came up here and I was like, - Sam was like, "Greening out that day." And I was like, "Oh, this is wild." (laughing) - You know, JC from Trillian was here a couple months ago. And he was, he was bad cool. We just sat down and talked. We talked business and just picking that guy's brain, like business-wise, and it was, like I'm just really like impressed with what these guys grew. - Yeah. - And it's really been thinking about a short amount of time. - I mean, crazy short amount of time. - Yeah. - Like, you know what I mean, equilibrium, you speak about that, like, I remember when they first opened and they were like, "Oh, what, six years ago, seven years ago?" - About that, yeah. - And it's just like, you know, first time I went there, I was like, "Oh, this place open, this is great." And now it's just like, "God damn." You know what I mean? Your stuff's everywhere and it's just like, people are digging it and how you can move that fast. And grow that, like, during a freaking pandemic, one of the things, you know, and it had people just digging your stuff and becoming this kind of, I don't want to say, like, globally thing, but, you know, I see people like sweating on their beers and about to other people's beers outside of the states and different places and stuff that and see, like, these kind of things grow. It's gotta be fun to be part of that, you know what I mean? And it sends that, like, one of the dumbest things in the world is like, "Kasy, I pays easy." You know what I mean? I don't think it's easy. There's a lot of people make a lot of shit. And it's not easy to do and people take it for granted. Sometimes, like, it's like, "Oh, it's basic." You know what I mean? Like, you can't make it. But it takes a lot to do and it takes a lot to do it and do it really, really, really well. - Yeah. - It's very expensive to do, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh no, it's super cheap, you know what I mean? And it definitely seems like it's gotta be, like, a surreal thing, you know what I mean? 'Cause, like, getting to work with people, whether you make music or make beer or whatever, when you get to kind of catch up and hang out with your peers and collaborate and stuff like that. It's just kind of why you, I guess, kind of why you do it? As a community and just chill and hang and do a lot kind of fun stuff, you know? - Yeah, no, that aspect of it was always really fun. That's kind of what drew me to this, like, you know, like, just going to these other breweries and then, like, making friends with people and when I was waiting in line. 'Cause we all have that common, okay? - Yeah, so now it's like in the brewing industry, everybody has that common interest. We go to these beer festivals together and get to meet everybody from around the country. And it's, it is, everybody is super cool. It is the coolest industry. It is just a really good industry. - You're talking about, like, doing different things. You said you can't really speak about what's coming up. But, like, like, like, are you growing in this spot and you're staying here or the ultimate goals do you think is to kind of move somewhere else? Or do you have to move somewhere else to do the things you want to do? - We don't have to move somewhere else to do the things we want to do yet. - Okay. - What we want, again, we always wanted to grow at a rate where we had enough beer. People could drink it and we could solve everything in our tap room or out the outdoor. So, that's the kind of rate that we're growing. We could stay here for a little while. We could still grind it out here. But, three, four years from now, I don't know. You know, I don't know. - What's your biggest hurdle right now when it comes to making your beer? Like, is it, is it, is the hazard hop procurement that's got easier, is mall bed, you know, talk about CO2 shortages and all kinds of things. Like, what are the things that people don't realize that you have to deal with them at daily basis? That's like, God damn. - Oh, it's just, I would say just the things that go wrong on the day. It's like, it's never smooth. - Happer or half engineer. We gotta fix it. - Yeah, you know, we're lucky. We have a really good guy, his name's Greg. He is our saving grace. We call Greg every day. - Hey, Greg, this is not working. This is not working. This is not working. And if you don't have those guys, you're screwed. I mean, if you are screwed, this is brewing is probably like 90% cleaning, 5% fixing stuff and then 5% brewing. (laughing) - You know, it's, yeah, it's the hurdles of, and it's just like the other things too, like especially with everything, getting cans for a while was a, was a, you know, our size. - Yeah. - Our size at the time. It was like every week, we're hounding these guys to make sure we could get cans, you know, grain is available, but grain has gone up. Everything has gone up like crazy. - Yeah. - It's gone up like crazy. So it's like, we will not compromise what we put into our beer. We want our beer to always be the same. So it's now finding other ways to be like, all right, we gotta do this. It's not process wise, we're just like business wise. It's operations wise to make, to say, hey, you know, we don't want to raise prices if we don't have to. So, it's just, you know, it's day-to-day operations. I mean, I, I, I brew once in a while, I have two brewers that work underneath me. - Yeah, I brew, I still brew once in a while, I think I've got two brewers that work underneath me. So now, like, my role is, is, is quality control. It's recipes, it's, you know, it's dealing with vendors all the time, dealing with employees, and dealing with that stuff. So let's just different channels. all the really fun I mean, the quality control is fun. - Quality control is fun. Yeah, that's fun. But yeah, all the logistics behind running a business. Yeah, it's like it's one of those things again People don't realize it's like you know, you just don't come in here and dance around and brood and no, you know You have people that rely on you you have people that have expectations of right and you got to fill those things You know and it comes the end of the week, you know, you can't get cans you can't get materials and stuff like that It's like you can't just be like oh well. Yeah, next week we'll figure it out I mean luckily we are I my other partner Tim is Tim is Tim is the man Tim makes sure we have all that stuff I like I said there's three of us myself Tim and Alan We will be bringing on some more some more people but myself Tim and Alan and we work really well together Tim's a CPA he does all the background the work nobody sees that's I would hate to do He does all that Alan is a marketing. He does all our photos. He does he helps manage and run this place So it's we have a we have a really good team, but it's it's a team. I mean it's You know when you when you start this it's like oh, like beer and then you're like I got real like Now it's like now it's a business What do you think sets you apart when it comes to like Like your hop forward stuff in general like like like we're like hop additions and specific places stuff like that Yeah, I think it's I think it's it's process. Yeah water Process we're very careful with oxygen. I mean we burn through CL - like mad like mad. That's why they they love us Yeah, they love us, but you know we burn we burn through it this especially with this style oxygen is yeah It's a killer. Yeah, it's such a killer. So you know Spending a little bit on to purge something and it's paying an extra time to purge it to me. It's worth it Especially the amount of time and you know hops are not cheap How to not cheap hops are expensive the amount we use is good amount of hops in our in our beer So we want to make sure when the customer All through the process till it's canned. You know, I'm sure we keep as much oxygen out as possible So they can have that product because a lot of people come to us And we just basically just sometimes they come in they can get a little sample cup But they're they're trying beer without it and sampling Based on a based on our expectation. They're right. They assume you right So that's I take that very seriously because this takes one bad experience and they're like You know, so we want to we make sure the process of the beer doesn't taste right it goes down the drain Luckily, we've only had to do that a couple times A lot of that was ever gets easy though. No, but I could we just can't put it I mean, we've only done it and the only times we've had to do that is we have like power outages But fermentation out of control and it was like And it is what it is it's not it is it's part of the game Well, yeah, I would say, you know, we got a great staff and it's just it's just our process I hop you know the half edition is where we put them what we do You know without getting away too many Man, it's like one of those things where yeah, no, it's it because you know There's people that still put that stuff out and they just they can't afford it But yeah, you you put that out it it it cost way more in the long run, you know It's kind of like similar to like you know, I think you know equilibrium as an example went through it You know, they they went so they had to go so hard into distro After pandemic it because they just had any facility is that a lot of their beers I'm not sitting on the shelf And they couldn't do anything about it because that's the process they had to go through and you know It's one of those things where it's like, you know You try to get your best product out there in other people's hands and you wanted to be as Representative of who you are So if you're just kind of cutting corners like that like I think it's it's fine Just putting the can you can't because people are just gonna be like screw that noise. I'm out No, there's there's there's too much good beer out there. That's the thing There's a too much good beer so a really good beer right can't you can't cut corners like right? There's too much good Beer I'm very grateful everybody that takes out drive to come out to see us and you know when there's they could Drive a much shorter distance, you know, so even as a reason they're coming here I want to keep them coming here and we will never I mean that is like then day one the beer is always You know, I mean We had that that little I met it wasn't like our top room was basically a homemade bar With a cool box and that was it. Yeah, we didn't care Now your ownership you were talking about ownership team. How many people are partners in history? There's three you and then that was Tim and Alan tell them in Alan and Knows are the originals plus minus one that was Tim and I Yeah, we're the rest of them one left and then Alan Alan was our first employee I'm Alan out of beer share and he said hey, I want to come tanks and I want to learn. I want to learn I want to come in and text learn. I was like yes. Oh, that's when it was my question I like a lot of the people that involved it or they the people that you went out and about with yeah Garrett who's here now Garrett was one of our first employees Anthony who is our head brewer He was one of our first employees Anthony will come here We're doing crawlers. He was a teacher as well. He'd get here like three in the morning Feel crawler's like six or to work and then you would come back and I was like Yeah, like I was just so Anthony's Anthony He's a Anthony's I might write him and like when it comes to that side for sure Oh, yeah, and Alan came and and realized You know this guy's So we offered him some ownership and now he's he's part of the part of the That's awesome. Yeah You know who traveled before this yet to come here We had a couple from Poland. Yeah nice that came in here. I was not here Anthony texted me It was last week and I was this yeah, and they came it was like I they're on their honeymoon And the husband was like so excited and they walked around let them take pictures and that to me that's just I was like damn, that's that's this is cool at your product make somebody that Excited Did you know you you originally had to tap them and then you kind of mixed it with with COVID and you said the ultimate goal is to get back to that yeah, like Because that's like as much as you said like it wasn't really like a huge part of your business It was mostly to go yeah, but you probably get like you're missing a lot of like instant feedback Yeah, a lot of times from because you have you probably control here in house But it's always nice to have random people. Yeah, cuz it's got to miss that. I do cuz people people taste beer different Yeah, yeah, like you and I could have the same beer and I'm like I pick up there. She really I get this and that's cool And I I like yeah, um, yeah, so I mean yeah, I do miss that. I do miss this is that time from experience Uh, hopefully soon That's that we got stuff coming up. So hopefully we can make that happen. Yeah, I know I'm Probably some of this stuff. You can't really talk about. No, I can't I can't just yeah I don't want to put stuff out there. And so we're We're very close to be able to tell people what's going on So everything is And yeah, the X is an X is an old nice and T's baby, right? So So yeah, I do miss that um You know, it is great to hear people taste something I could taste some of it. Yeah, it's gonna be best patch made Sorry What what was the beer maybe I don't know if that would be There's got to be a beer that you made that you're like, I don't know and people. Oh um of it. It was uh I can tell you right now. I still don't brew it because I hate it It was sq so cried a question in five we used a new type of yeast Because I like to play and we have our house use it. I like to play with other you see What it does? I just I was a double Yeah, it's like I do not like this. We talked you out of it. My other partners This is actually good So let's just see what happens if it's not then why so okay? So And it wasn't I mean listen it was nothing I think it was just a taste um Some of the hops I wasn't crazy about it's had a little bit more of a bite that I didn't want in it and uh, so You put it out And Alton I was kind of like all right, maybe I can't Always go off my palate. Yeah, there's a reason we have other people here Yeah, and I have I still remember that and I saw that made a sense but I just that yeah, that's the one how I mean You how much do you let like outside influence Kind of direct you guys you have to pay attention to the attacks you can't not pay attention But you of course everybody pays attention. I mean on let's say on on tap to what's on attachment very good to us Um, I waiting is a good on tap, but you know, so you see the There's always negative At first. I used to be like, but now it's just like For one, I don't really pay attention to it that much anymore. Yeah, we have people that obviously look at it It's something that needs my attention. They bring it to me with something that's like You know, I guess talking with other brewers that have been in this game for a long time I don't even Because there's a lot that take it personally No, you're right. It's something that you work so hard for and you think you're like, you know, you're very proud of this product. And then some people just don't like it. And you gotta be able to accept that. And then you also gotta be able to look in the mirror and say, well, is there a reason why they're not saying that? Is that maybe something is off? You can't be like, oh, I just have the best thing. That's it. Maybe we could treat this and maybe we could try that. Also, sometime these guys know it. When you're not here, you're drinking beers, what each other nowadays. Like, is there not your own beer? Not my own beer? Oh, I love any Suarez cans I can get in my hands. I drink that. Great brewery, about 40 minutes from here. Wayward Lane. I love Adam's stuff. He never actually never heard of it. Oh, worth your time. Yeah, worth your time. Excellent. Yeah. We're going west east. It's about west. Okay. About 45 minutes west of here in school, school area. His stuff is fantastic. I'm a big fan of his stuff. He makes a lot of really good classic styles. He makes hazes stuff as well. Yeah. He's real deal. He's a good friend of ours. We've done some collabs with him. Let me see. What else? Like, you ever just like drink beer flavored beer? Oh, like, Miller? Of course. Which is favorite macro vlogger? Oh, my friend of mine, Joe Sennagali, you want me to ask you what your favorite? My favorite macro vlogger. Yeah, I know, I know. I know, Joe. Yeah, I know, Joe. My favorite macro. Oh, actually, I was just drinking Cours banquet out in Yakima with our with our hopper. Yeah, a little grenade bottle. Yeah, it was like in those. I would have to say high life. Another highlight. Yeah, me too. So I think that's like, it's everybody's good because it's really fucking good. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, that's like a total of water in a very delicious way. You know, it was every place we go. It was high life. Every brewery event. Everybody has their beer, but there's high life. Was there something you had out out there that you're like never had before? And you're like, man, these people fucking damn. Oh, yeah, the guard. Yeah, sour, sour. It was amazing. Yeah, Bruce, it's pretty cool. Bruce, they had a, uh, fresh hop strata beer. Yeah, fresh hop is just coming out right out there. Like, yeah, it was not for the, it depends on the picking season. So it's like, but it was, it was really good. Great notion. Had one mosaic fresh hop that was killer, uh, cream. Yeah. I love that. We stopped in. So we were coming back and we had to stop at that. Especially if you're like a low AVV drink. Yeah. They make a lot of like, you know, like their house, um, pale ale or whatever. It's like, I think it's like, what is it foreign strangers? Yeah. Yeah. No, we stopped, we stopped. We had lunch there. Had a couple beers. It was the pills and it was. Yeah, I mean, it's for that area is like the amount of good beer out there is crazy. Yeah, but it's honestly, it's getting, you know, up here, we're not doing tea. No, we're not these, you know, it's just a different vibe. You know, I mean, much different. Yeah. Well, I don't know if there's line culture out there. Like, I mean, line culture has died a lot down, but like, like, I talked a lot of the rest of it. No. Yeah. It's not, you know, it's not like that. It's, it is a different vibe. It's, it's, it's cool. Yeah. It's very cool. It's very chill. Not, not different in a bad way. No, no, no, exactly. Different in a good way. Different, not, not, it's just different. You know, if we tell them what happens out here, they're like, oh, that's awesome. That's cool. You know, because we, this is what we know. Yeah. Out there. That's, I like that. That's chill. The, I'm going to try to actually post this this week. Okay. Because you're having your anniversaries in specific stuff, you'd want to like, let people know about the anniversary and gentlemen, like, as far as like, are you going to be open any additional time? No, I'm not going to be on additional time. It's just, you're going to be specific drops and specific beers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would tell you until the beers can, I don't like to say anything until it's can't be. We can. Yeah. We can guess and bottle the sound on Friday. That's coming out. I never liked to say anything. No, you said it was just coming out. You see the bottle of the sound. Yeah. Oh, you're doing bottles. Oh, we've been doing we bottle our, we got to, we got to bottle it. Okay. I didn't know if you were going to do a can versus bottle or whatever. I like bottle. Yeah. I'm bottled that. You know, 500 mils. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Awesome, man. Dude, appreciate you sitting down. Hang on. Jack, man. Yeah, I'm fucking, Mr. Killsner. It was really good. Thank you, man. I was, I was a long day. I was, not long, but it was just like, just like a lot to take in. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, this is out of the out of the comfort zone. Yeah. I mean, so it's like IPAs, not that I'm on autopilot, but I've done it. We do amount of time. So I know if this goes wrong. Yeah. Yeah. With this, it's like, you know, I was the hardest part. It was just control or it was our system is really tough for this style. Yeah. It's, it's, it's hard. So yeah, temperature, getting those stepmashes corrected. Yeah. It was, we, we, we got it, but it wasn't that it was a process for sure. But yeah. So they're here. They're turning strictly longer. No more stouts, no more hazes. All you're getting is some 5% drinking gear from now on. You, oh, if only, right? If only. I was a great style, but Haysies, we'll do Haysies to, yeah. Well, do Haysies forever. Do you feel, do you feel Haysies get a bad rap or certain extent? Like people view it as like a kind of like a juvenile beard or something? Yeah. I don't know. I feel they, or do you think it's just an easy punch, easy punch or bag? Like people who's like, yeah, they can just make fun of it. I think it might be a little bit of balls. Yeah. I think you see, you know, to me, it's like, like, I don't, like, you drink what you want to drink. Yeah. Don't yuck someone's young. Exactly. You know, I have certain styles that are not, that my favorite doesn't mean they're bad. Yeah. I got certain styles that I love. There's a big difference between a bad beer and a beer you don't like, and I know all the people delineate. Right. And that's my thing. Like if it's not your style, it's not your style. It doesn't mean there's anything flawed. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it. You just personally don't like it. And to me, it's like, like, cooking almost like this. I know I don't like Brussels sprouts. Don't eat Brussels. It could be the best Brussels sprouts ever. Just put cheese on them next week. Awesome, dude. I appreciate you sitting there. No problem. You want to plug your stuff, let people know where to find you, how to find you. We are open Wednesday through Friday through seven, Saturday 11 to three, 10 walk away. Albany, New York, on to 205. And maybe a month from now, you're going to hear a whole lot of things. Hopefully stuff. We'll see what's what, but good things in the future. Awesome, and good looking at the university. Cheers. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]