Interview: LoanPro's CEO & Cofounder Rhett Roberts

Welcome back to Fintech Business Podcast. Today, I'm speaking with Rhett Roberts, co-founder and CEO of Lone Pro. Lone Pro is a scalable API-first lending and credit platform. Rhett, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast. First off, I feel like Lone Pro is kind of like a stealth giant in Fintech. I was looking at your website as I was getting ready, and it's like some major names in Fintech that everyone would recognize that are clients of yours, and you've recently come out to the broader market in a big way. Is it just me? Was there like an intentional decision to kind of fly under the radar, so to speak? Well, Jason, thanks for having me. Appreciate everyone's time today and all the efforts that you're doing in the ecosystem. Yeah, funny to say, we have an interesting Genesis story and building out the business over time. And we have kind of flown under the radar, providing infrastructure to a bunch of the names you would know, ecosystem of different kinds of lenders. We started in the space of a variety of kinds of highly regulated loans and work with banks and credit unions and others. And we have done a bit of an effort to expand into the variety. So, you know, folks that you can see on our site, like Best Egg or SoFi, use our platform to manage their loans. And of recent, we've announced some pretty big partnerships that we're excited about, and that's gained a little bit of attention out in the ecosystem. And we believe that really provides an innovative solution. I've been doing this for 15 plus years, right? That's we provide a lending software viewed as a lending core. You don't build one of those overnight. That's it takes a long time to build those. And so it's been this bootstrapped methodical process of building out a compliance first lending product. Appliance first, I love it. Glad to hear that. I mean, it, you know, taking 15 years to sort of build incremental capabilities, you know, frankly, it doesn't surprise me. I mean, I'll, you know, I'm dating myself at this point. But, you know, having worked at a couple of, you know, sort of fintech or tech first oriented lenders, at this point, starting, I think, 10 or 11 years ago, you know, the mentality and I should caveat, I am not a software engineer by training. You know, I was more of a marketing person or product management person. You know, the mentality, particularly of two of the earlier companies I worked for, was very much, you know, we're a technology organization. Why would we go buy something, you know, when we can build it? And that was really true sort of across the board. I remember the first firm I worked for, I wanted to listen to some customer service call recordings, and they'd actually even built a very janky tool to try to retrieve these call recordings. And it does seem that as, you know, the fintech industry has matured, there has been movement away from everyone trying to build every piece of this stack themselves to realizing like, hey, doing something like a loan origination or a loan management system or collections or whatever is actually incredibly complicated, particularly as you put it to do it in a compliance first way. And so there really is value in having specialization across the technology stack and across the value chain. I mean, you at this point offer quite a wide range of capabilities. Can you sort of tell us a little bit more about exactly what it is that loan pro offers and the kinds of ways your clients tend to use the platform? Yeah, you bet. I love that story that you shared. Let me, I'm going to answer this a little bit different. The reason why the business even exists, we were lenders ourselves, founded the business approaching 20 years ago with my two brothers, a series, a sequence of businesses we did, and it led us into auto lending. And as we were servicing and managing our own portfolio of loans, the software that we were using at the time, let's say it left a lot to be desired, right? A customer would call in and they would have what seemed like a super normal like servicing event. They'd change jobs or whatever. And the software wouldn't have a button to change a due date. Or if it did change a due date, it would do the math wrong, right? It wouldn't be aware that there's now 45 days in the period instead of 30 days in the period. So the interest accruals were now non compliant. And those things just really, really bothered me, have my background in finance. And so on this side of it, looking back, you know, we will admit it's a little bit of being naive. We thought, well, it can't be that hard. Let's go ahead and build it. Turns out it's actually really hard. There's a there's a lot to it. But we've approached that from a perspective of being the lender, right? So if you think of like a self service portal, where a customer will go into an app or a website, and how do they service their own loan through self service? Or if you walk into a branch or a physical location, or you call in, what's the experience of the person who answers that phone or the teller who's standing on the other side of the desk? How do they retrieve your loan and engage to provide whatever servicing event. So think of the entire spectrum, you walk into a branch and say, I just got married. And I want to add my new spouse to my account or any loan lifecycle event, as we call them, that can occur. And the touch points might be through self service, like a customer portal, think akin to like online banking, specifically through your loans. Or for what we call the agent experience, maybe it's like a teller or the supervisor or system admin. And our software support supports that entire range and solution in a modern tech stack. So we got a little lucky on a few things. One of them was the timing. We had our personal experience. So we knew exactly what was needed. But one of the timings were one of the first 100 companies on AWS. And so our first root account is super early account number on AWS. We have a whole array of root accounts now, things, but we've approached this in maybe a slightly different way than other folks have done. And as you mentioned there, we lead with compliance. And it comes from a product person's perspective, because it always bothered me when compliance was the afterthought, right? You build something super cool, and it works really well. And then you think about compliance. And turns out it's a terrible user experience now, because you added all your compliance on after the fact. So we actually lead with what has to be done. And it's a differentiator for us, because the velocity of the rules changing or the areas or the focus of enforcement through the alphabet of different government agencies, if that's a CFPB or OCC or FFIC or whatever it is, right, this whole list of them, the velocity of areas of focus and enforcement is, it's faster than some of our competitors release cycles, right? So like the implementation windows of, Hey, here's this rule and you need to make sure you're following it. There's less time for you to follow it than the release cycles of some of our competitors. So having compliance from the beginning and building in a rule-based way, it might be something simple on like how late fees work, but also something might be something more complicated, like if one of our customers is a depository subject to rules with the FFIC, turns out there's a bunch of rules when a customer calls in and says, can I change my due date or defer my payment? It's not just up to the person who answers the phone. Sure, you sound nice enough. Let's do that for you. Turns out there's a bunch of rules around it. And how do those rules work? So the visual I like to envision, when I was going to elementary school, some of the presentations were done with an overhead projector. And they put the sheet there and they would project up on the wall. I'm dating myself a little bit in how that was done. But the visual that comes to mind for me is if you have multiple sheets that you overlay on one another that project up on the wall, imagine each one of those sheets is different rules. Those rules might come from the FFIC. They might come from your partner bank. They might come from your business rules. They might come. So there might be compliance, not just with external sources. They might be your own business rule enforcement. And we control or enforce that everybody colors within the lines. And so it's a compliance approach of an infraction interception, instead of approaching it as remediating something you shouldn't have done. And it's just a fundamentally better experience to intercept an infraction and to lead with that. And so our acronym that we move forward is that is COMP. So compliance, optimization, modernization, and personalization. And we spend a fair amount of time on compliance, but that's we lead with compliance and we provide the both or the optimization modernization sort of this modern stack that to do it all and do it in a more efficient way. And also the huge unlock is about personalization. That I'm, this is an audio medium, but I was smiling slash laughing silently as you were sort of walking through that just because it resonates with so many of the experiences I've had, you know, working in industry. I mean, particularly, you know, some of the more esoteric regulations that even people listening to this podcast who tend to be very well informed, you know, may not have heard of like Sycra, which I'd have to stop. I can't even remember what Sycra stands for service member civil relief act or something like that. And so, you know, I'm actually kind of curious to hear about from an organizational perspective, how you how you sort of operationalize that in what I mean is like, if I think of some of the very large organizations that I've worked for or in the space, I think part of the problem tends to be that that functions are heavily siloed, right? So you maybe have, you know, product managers writing sort of business rules, you have engineers somewhere else, you have a legal and compliance team. And because, because they're siloed and the workflow or into the interconnections between these teams, you know, introduces latency, that can lead to that very long release cycle that you're talking about. Do you structure this like a little bit differently to enable you to move more quickly? Yeah, it's a great question. And yes, it does require a, we'll call it a deep domain expertise, not only on the compliance. So, you know, our legal counsel, he runs compliance here. And so we have an old compliance committee, and that committee is comprised of, of course, lawyers and things, but it's also comprised of our product folks. And it has representation that from across the business. So technology, and so they're dealing with compliance, maybe on like security sides of things. But also, how do we design the product in such a way that will allow our customers to be compliant with the ever changing and historical rules? You'd mentioned like SCRA or imagine, you know, bankruptcy, take what sounds relatively simple, turns out that one's a little, there's a few things to do. And so imagine a customer files bankruptcy, and there's some requirements about like being aware of that they have to notify you, most organizations of reasonable size have like a process that they will monitor to see that it occurred. So they attribute, but then that customer, you know, walks into a branch. Well, the teller who engages with a customer, who their account is attributed as bankruptcy, there's certain things you cannot do. And one of them is collections, and you have to be adhered to the automatic stay. So the teller who retrieves the loan needs to have the data presented to them, like right away, of a certain experience needs to occur. And so there's organizations out there that maybe that teller experience would have fetched and returned on screen, this customer's past due. Well, yeah, they are, but they also found bankruptcy. And so you can't be in violation of the automatic stay. So those kinds of things we build directly into the solution. So we approach this in a rule based manner. And we use variables or attribution at the loan and customer level. And then we build out rules, which are dynamic, and can be easily adjusted based off of the enforcement, as well as the timeline of regulators, meaning, by and large, not requiring a software code release to go, it's just a configuration to allow for these to happen. And if that's an optimizing for a teller, or what we call an agents experience, or for the self service, it's to make so you can be omnichannel, multiple touch points to engage and touch the same loan. And it's going to be a source of truth. And that compliance will run the whole gamut. So it's going to be the underwriting side of things. Generally, we pick up the loan at the point of decision. So that like an installment loan will be the teal of disclosures, amort schedule that the math's done right, APR is calculated the right way, they can use us for documents, sending out and so forth. There's sort of a grade area where it has origination and and servicing start, we position ourselves as a complete servicing solution, all the way through servicing collections and the whole nine yards there. But yeah, it's a big effort to go ahead and organize your team members in such a way, because the software you develop is a reflection of the people who develop it. And I think a lot of times people don't remember that, right? You need to have the right data in, in order to, you know, good in, good out, bad in, bad out. And if you think that you're going to hire a wizard developer who is not contextually aware of the industry or of compliance and get something that is useful in the industry or compliant out, it's not going to work. So you have to have the right data in and out. Historically, I've ran product, which is kind of my true love, and having this cross functional ability to understand what are the needs, right? How do you stay compliant and still run a profitable portfolio? And how do you provide those to your, to your clients, your casters? So that's been, been a big focus for us is to provide an organized, so we're, we're organization about 250 people now. And about 70 something percent of that is product and engineering, right? So pretty heavy on the product and engineering side, because compliance is where it's more complicated, but it turns out people want to buy a platform that's compliant. You, you, you really are giving me some, some PTSD flashbacks. I mean, when I worked, when I worked in, in the lending business, I, as I mentioned, it's on the marketing side. So I kind of cared, like, did we get this person through the funnel and get the loan originated? And then, like, after that, like, wash my hands. It's like magic black box over there. See what they do. I mean, of course, in the scope of the business, that's not true because you want to be, you know, driving acquisitions of customers who are going to pay you back, kind of an important thing in lending. But I definitely do remember, you know, one of the, one of the companies I worked for, you know, interacting with my colleagues in, you know, customer service or servicing our collections and just realizing, I mean, I guess it's not fair to call these edge cases, but things we hadn't planned for, like, oh, no, like, this person died. Like, what do we do? Or, like, we received, you know, notification that they have a power of attorney. Like, how do we, you know, how do we deal with that? Funny story. So we used, we used to be lenders, right? My brother and stuff. And so my education is investment finance. And we ran, we own a few car dealerships at the time. And that's how we got into auto lending. And we experienced first hand customer file for bankruptcy. And literally, we looked at each other and say, like, I don't know, what do we do? Or all of these experiences, like, we had all kinds of strange collection behavior and experiences where customers call in and they can't make a payment because they spent their money at the county fair or just like, like, just weird stuff, right? And so you experience that and then you realize, oh, such an integral part of all of this is the experience and the touchpoint and the, the customer's engagement. And that's an interesting one. So for example, you mentioned and you write extensively about the compliance on the underwriting side of things before you give them money. My perspective is great. Keep doing those things through the rest of the life of the loan as well, especially if it's like a line of credit, right? It's a continual underwriting as you do your, your line management rules and things. So you've got to keep up that engagement. And as that will provide a much more performant portfolio. So we provide a number of tools of like automated next servicing action, where we continue to take a bunch of those underwriting things that you would do up front before you give them money and say, Hey, if I kept tracking those kinds of things through the rest of the life alone, what can I do to make my portfolio more performant? Can I, why do I wait until they're delinquent before I'm willing to help them? Or why do I do these magic lines of 30, 60, 90 or whatever? And like, something magic happens at 91 days, where in the real world, someone just made up that rule, right? So those kinds of things, we try to insert a little bit more of sanity into how do we make the portfolio, not just compliant, but how do we make it performant? And you can do that by managing. So we, history is full of technology. I won't go into too much of a soapbox here, but one of the things that was fascinating to me in history, especially technological history, it's full of a sequence of bundling and unbundling and then bundling and unbundling just back and forth. And every time that bundle and unbundle occurs, the rebundling occurs with a different level of vertical stack integration. And so at one point, the deposit that the depositories or banks, credit unions, the way they bundled their cores is they bundled what really I would argue should be three separate things, wealth management, a deposit core and the lending core. And if you go under the hood, how they're all built, they're kind of built that way anyways, but a lot of them have bundled them into one. And I believe we're going through a process of the unbundling of that into three separate things. And the compliance is pretty clear, right? The way they write the compliance is kind of different on loans than it is on deposit accounts. And so to have one system that's supposed to be the jack of all trades, turns out it's not the best. And so we are leaning really hard into be everything on the lending core to provide that solution. I mean, that is interesting and makes a lot of sense. I mean, I remember and a little bit outside my area of expertise. But when I was at Goldman, there was sort of one system, I believe it was Finnacle, that the lending stuff was built on. And then as a, I mean, as a result of an acquisition, so the savings platform came from an acquisition of GE, GE capital. And so obviously, like, there already was a running system that then needed to be not necessarily, you know, what you would choose if you did it from scratch. But you had sort of, you know, to the user walking in, if they had a loan and they had a savings account, eventually, it was a unified experience. But on the back end, you have a lending system and a deposit system, which were separate and surface to that user through a middleware layer or like a service bus and then sitting on top of that. So simple things, stuff that sounds like super simple, like a unified customer ID, right? Those become really complicated. Yeah. I mean, I know that you support a pretty broad spectrum of credit instruments. I think you mentioned, you know, sort of classic installment loans and in cards, but also some more niche or customized products that you don't necessarily see as frequently in FinTech, you know, things like releases, MCA, merchant cash advances, as well as sort of hybrid or sort of custom options. Can you give us some examples of unique products that some of your clients have built and the future of personalization looks like? Yeah, yeah, great question. So when we started, we were in auto loans, and we didn't intend to monetize this, right? We were building a tool for our own company internally. And others reached out and said, Hey, we do loans of another flavor. Can I use your software? We told them no for a few years, or like, go build your own, like figure the thing out. And it turns out, any people who give loans of any flavor need an operating system like this and a platform for it. So we started doing loans or having our software identify what's the difference between let's pick things on the polar opposite, you know, a student loan versus a merchant cash advance. They'll sound wildly different, but they're like 70, 80% the same. I give you money. You have to give money back to me. I got to track all these things around it. And if I build it in a rule based way, there's different grouping of policies for enforcement and compliance and things. And so we started to identify all of the delta between the whole spectrum of these different kinds of loans and build configuration that would support. So I think of it as a radio station and move all of your little levers and then take a picture on the state of those that equals a product. And then you can adjust them again. And that's another product. And so we've built lots of things on the system, right? So we have like merchant cash advance, we have the those that you mentioned, we have folks who do early wage access, we have folks who do buy now pay later, we have all the normal installment ones, we have fun, these custom or personalized type of installment loans. One example is for for teachers, a customer of ours focuses on giving loans for teachers, some of the jurisdictions here in the US or the school districts rather don't pay full payment during the summer, or they have diminished pay during the summer. So if you give somebody a loan that you know they have smaller income for, you know, three months each year, and then they have difficulty making a payment during that time, and you have a hard time having your portfolio perform because of it. I mean, you kind of knew that going into it, right? And so they start doing some custom ones that have diminished pay during the summer or abatement opportunities, or a step where it starts at a $300 payment goes out of two and then one. So we have a variety of these custom roll schedule type loans. And of recent, we've rolled out last number of years, line of credit. These might be like a full revolving or a minimum pay, and also full credit card. And on the credit card, this is card acts, compliant cards, as well as corporate cards on the solution. And part of that, as we were building out the credit card solution, we looked at the historical platforms, we actually went to the CFPB, and we pulled all the fine print on all of these different cards. And the goal was in under 10 minutes, I want to be able to configure no programming, configure to match any card in the country. And, and they have different rules on how minimum pay works and how the interest is accrued and all these things. So we've built all of that. And we have many cards on the on the platform today. And as we did that, we recognized a lot of cards have three buckets that have different financial instruments, right? There's a, there's a cash advance, there's a balance transfer, and there's a purchase bucket. There's different interest rates, and they work slightly different on each. And all of us have our cards that we use in that way. Well, we thought, why not have n number of buckets? However, many is defined at the product. And why don't we use attribution from the transaction to route it rule based to the bucket. So this is something we call transaction level credit. And it has some really interesting use cases. We're working with a credit union right now, who focuses on US military. And they have a problem when a service member goes active duty, typically through the financial relationship moves to be with the spouse, or that remains back at home. And the goal there, what they're trying to do is they're trying to solve dropping off from being top of wallet. And in that side of that transition, what can they do to remain top of wallet, and basically to convert the spouse to be this is their financial institution as well. So we designed a card program for it says, you know what, they need to know that you've got them, they need to understand that you, you've done this rodeo a few times, you know, you've got all these different members of the credit union that have had this experience. Why don't we design a card program that tells them that I got you, I understand this difficult time that your family's in, let's say, geofence their primary residence, and within a five mile radius, any groceries that are spent during deployment, we're going to interest to beat the grocery transactions, or and start filling in the blank using attribution from the transaction, and routing it to the appropriate bucket, creating transaction level credit, and doing it in a way that essentially would be what you could do in a rewards program, but pulling it forward into the financial instrument itself, instead of having, you know, we all read about to Wells Fargo and built and how the program was done in such a way that the rewards are, you know, outsized to how the performance is happening on the cards. Well, the design of it, if they had done that inside of the financial instrument, if they had said, Hey, you know what, rent transactions have a lower interest rate or interest debated for a period of time or whatever, then they would have mitigated the risk that way. And I believe still have a high conversion, especially with all the talk of interchange compression, who knows what's going to happen there, but interchange is how they fund the rewards program. And funding the rewards program is how they differentiate card a from card B. So we're introducing, and this is where we filed a whole bunch of patents and have several of them issued. We've introduced this new tool in the toolbox of transaction level credit that provides just like the teacher example and installment loans, this provides a high level of customization or personalization at the different financial products we offer. Yeah, the the built story almost made me wish I were still a renter. Almost almost. I've kind of buried the lead here. I mean, more recently, you actually had a big announcement about a partnership with Visa DPS. I think first for listeners that might not know exactly what DPS is, can you sort of explain what this integration is going to enable you and your clients to be able to do? Yeah, you bet. So happy and very, very pleased with our partnership with DPS as one of the issuing processors that we've integrated with and great team, great people there. So visa owns a captive issuing processor that around for a long time, in fact, has a significant volume of debit card transactions in North America ran on DPS. And as a captive entity within within visa, they have built out some really cool things. And they historically have operated even in their name as a debit issuing processor. And as what we're bringing to the table with them and others on the issuing processing side, jumping over the fence from being a debit issuing processor to a credit issuing processor sounds kind of simple until you start to think about, well, debit, the ledgers a little bit more simplistic, there is compliance all around the checking account you're accessing and so forth. And they have prepaid cards and secure cards and a few other things. But they start they provide a lot of really cool things at at visa. They say, you know, hey, you want to launch a card program, let me help you, I'm going to provide you value added services will sell you some really powerful tools inside of like fraud, and ways you can identify if the transaction is real will will help you with disputes will help you with the rewards program will help you with all these things. What we're bringing to the table is how about here's the whole stack to manage those loans as well, and to do the compliance and the billing cycle and the accrual of the interest and the repayment and the whole nine yards. So when you think about a debit card and it versus a credit card, the at the surface level from the cards perspective, you're looking at a different ledger, right debit, is there enough money in the bucket for me to have the transaction clear. And on credit, is there you swap out open to buy to available credit. But once it turns into the term of available credit, you have a whole another library of compliance things, and you have a billing cycle, and you have a due date, and you have interest accrual, and you have credit reporting, and blah, blah, blah, all these things, that's exactly what our platform does. So it's a sort of a hand in the glove relationship, where we signed and publicly announced a relationship with visa DPS of using their issuing processing solution and our integration with them to sort of repurpose a debit issuing processor into a complete credit stack. That I'm interested to see sort of what gets built on that. I mean, something that I find very interesting about the infrastructure space that you play in is you get to build these sort of core capabilities. And then the customer facing companies, whether it's consumer or business or enterprise or whatever, get to go out and actually determine what features and products they want to use your capabilities to offer. So it's going to be very interesting to see how that develops. It'll be fun with the, sorry to catch up there, but the announcements that Jack Forstall made at like the Flex Credential, right? You think about that, there's a few ways you can do that. And we're already talking with multiple parties on, hey, how can you involve? Because not only do we support credit card and line of credit, but you all kinds of installment loans. And this concept with our partners, the debit card. So you could do it inside the off path of the transaction. And basically it's nested tokens, right? It's a, it's a root message router to which token do you use. But if you do it at the ledger, you still need to know the token that accesses the ledger, is there enough money for that transaction to clear or not if you're going to do the routing. So we're sitting in an ideal position to enable anybody who wants to take advantage of this Flex Credential. They need a solution that can stitch together their debit system without going, you don't, you don't need to move and do a replatform, right? We can stitch into the debit system. We can run your credit card system, native ours and the full installment side. So it is going to be very interesting to see what happens. And that can be in off or that can be post transaction. So imagine this concept where you go spend at Home Depot and the issuer, the bank that issues the card doesn't necessarily have a special relationship with Home Depot, but they identify and they say, Hey, let's do this thing. If you spend at Home Depot more than a grand, go ahead and we'll send you a text message, send us a picture of your receipt. We'll OCR the receipt and we'll see if there's anything on there that will give you an installment loan for it. Let me give you a loan for your lawnmower. And this is all post off. So it's a it's a mechanism to acquire an array of installment loans. And those may or may not deplete the available credit for the actual card. So a lot of really interesting things. We'll see what happens. I mean, that that it's like, okay, you already have on the credit side, you know, of course, these sort of like installmentizations of a transaction that you've already done. But if you're if you're on the bank side, you know, that doesn't necessarily improve your interest income. And depending on like the exact terms of whatever that sort of installment plan you're offering might actually like lower the interest income you generate. Whereas what you're describing in this, just sort of like affirms debit are kind of operate similar ways. Okay, I went to in your example Home Depot and I bought all this stuff. And now maybe I'm at the end of, you know, I'm at the end of the month and trying to like juggle my household balance sheet or P&L, I guess, and decide like, oh, actually, like maybe I want to change this and that that lawn mower or that expensive flight I bought. Actually, I want to turn that into a 12 month loan or a six month loan and move it from the debit side to the credit side, which I think is going to be very interesting to see what gets built with that. It will be. And you think of all your expertise on the origination side, right? This turns into an excellent way to acquire loans from a known party, right? And it really provides, you can, it's like the ultimate pre approval. And it's a great way to engage with that. So that's just one of the use cases, but there's many, we're seeing tons of really interesting things on installment loans, different flexible schedules, this concept of transaction level credit, that example with the military. Turns out that provides a high level of loyalty and solves those because customers, you think about your personal life, you only have enough time to engage with maybe a dozen brands that are like your brand. And beyond that, you don't have enough time to go get, you know, have a hundred brands that are like your brand, you maybe interact with them, but they're like, yeah, sure, whatever. But there's a handful of brands that you feel really connected to. And if you could build those relationships in that way, that really is a big unlock. Well, and I mean, building, building a loyalty in the financial services space is notoriously hard, right? You know, if anything, most people stay with the institution they have, not because they love it, but because of the inertia. It's like, you know, why am I going to change? Like, is it going to be any better? It's a pain? You know, so Carl Pascarella, he used to be the CEO of Visa, he's on my board, turned into a close mentor of mine, and I talked to him often. And he shared with me a number of times how typically a deposit account is viewed as the relationship account at a financial institution, and credit accounts or loans have not been viewed as a relationship builder. But what we're providing with this high level of personalization flips that on its head. The credit relationships is where you're building that relationship. It's no longer just the deposits. So yeah, that's great. You do, you know, payroll deposit, this kind of stuff, where people are feeling connected to their financial institution is about the personalization in their credit products. Absolutely. I mean, now that the Visa, DPS integration is live, you know, what's next? Are there other key functionalities you don't already offer that are on your roadmap? Yeah, we're always building, we're always expanding and building, we're doing, you know, fast feedback loops of engaging with our customers of what will be the right solutions for them. And this flex credential is one that we're facilitating a variety of ways it's going to be used, and continue to build out the variety of supports around everything on installment loans and lines of credit and cards. So there's a lot of great partners in the ecosystem. Visa is one of them. And we'll continue to support them and others that we're working with. Amazing. Rhett, I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today. For those who want to learn more about LoanPro or get in touch, where can they find you? Great. Our website is loanpro.io. If you want to learn more about the Visa partnership, you can go to loanpro.io/visa. You can check me out on LinkedIn or actually shoot me an email direct and we can get you in contact with our team members. My email is my name, [email protected]. Brave man giving out your email address publicly. Rhett, thank you so much for the time. Thanks, Jason. Appreciate all you do.