Speaker 1Welcome to the EMCC UK podcast, and welcome to this final episode in our series on the topic of internal coaching supervision. Today's guest is Louise Miller, who at the time of the recording of this interview in late 2022, was the Coaching and Mentoring Services Lead at University College Hospital, London. In today's concluding episode, our series hosts Catherine St-Jim Brooks and Jeremy Gomm talk to Louise about the quality assurance role which supervision can play in an internal coaching function, the value of feeding back organisational themes which crop up in supervision for wider learning, and how internal coaches can support 360 feedback debriefing. If you haven't already, remember to subscribe to our channel. Remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss a future episode. And if you're listening on the Spotify mobile app, be sure to let us know what you think of this episode by answering the Q&A.
Speaker 2Hello and welcome to Internal Coaching Supervision with me, Jeremy Gomm and Catherine St-Jim Brooks. Hi, Catherine.
Speaker 3Hi. Our guest today is Louise Miller, Coaching and Mentoring Services Lead at University College Hospital, London.
Speaker 2Our guest today is Louise Miller, Coaching and Mentoring Services Lead at University College Hospital, London. Our guest today is Louise Miller, Coaching and Mentoring Services Lead at University College Hospital, London. Our guest today is Louise Miller, Coaching and Mentoring Services Lead at University College Hospital, London. Our guest today is Louise Miller, Coaching and Mentoring Services Lead at University College Hospital, London. Our guest today is Louise Miller, Coaching and Mentoring Services Lead at UCLH. That's University College London Hospital, if you didn't know what the initials meant. Louise has been in post for three years and has seen the scale of the coaching and mentoring being done there increase exponentially during that time. One of her many interests is the role that supervision can play in checking on the quality of coaching that's being delivered. What are your thoughts on that, Catherine?
Speaker 4Well, it's a very interesting one, that thing about, you know, the role that supervision plays in quality assurance. I mean, I do think the existence of supervision for internal coaches does provide that kind of security blanket for organisations. You know, they like the feeling that the supervisor is keeping an eye on the coach's competence and their ethical standards. But what I'm less sure about, really, is the degree to which, in real life, a supervisor would actually say to a coaching lead, I'm a bit concerned. I'm a bit concerned about so-and-so, whoever the coach is. You know, I'm not sure, actually, that they should be practising, or maybe they need refresher training. And if it was transparent that that could happen, if it was transparent to the supervisees, the coaches, that that was part of the role of the supervisor, then what might the impact be on them? Would they be less keen on revealing their vulnerabilities and worries and weaknesses and so on during supervision? I'm not sure. What are you thinking about it, Jeremy? Well, a few things, in fact.
Speaker 2Firstly, there may be a few qualified supervisors in a large organisation's coaching cohort. So there's often the opportunity for coaches to choose the supervisor that they want to work with, which helps with picking the right relationship. What the supervisor reports back will be determined by the contracting, which will undoubtedly include confidentiality within the supervision. In my experience supervising internal coaches, I would expect outcomes to include how coaches would address their own development needs, which may involve them seeking training or other support. I don't really see disclosure being affected by the supervision process, but it may be inhibited by other things, of course.
Speaker 4Thank you. I mean, what do you think, Louise? So, hi, Louise, first of all. Hi, Lou. Hi. Nice to see you there. Hi there. Do you have any comments on what Jeremy and I were cogitating about there?
Speaker 5Well, certainly have. I wonder too. Well, we only have one consistent supervisor at our trust. So I'll tell you a little bit about our numbers in a second. But because we only have that one person and that he is internal. And we offer supervision quarterly. He has never in the three years I've worked at the trust, you know, approached me and said I'm concerned about somebody. So I'm delighted to hear that. However, if he did, I would be worried that people might not think it's a confidential space. So luckily it's never happened. So that's good. But at the same time, I think I'd like to know if perhaps, you know, somebody was just way off me. So what I do encourage your coaches to do is to get regular supervision, not just within our trust to go outside. Because I think maybe a supervisor with the trust, even though our supervisor is he works technically for us. But he's in such a far removed area that, you know, there's no no sort of clash there that he's going to walk in and see somebody or spend a lot of time with them. His confidentiality is impeccable anyway. But I think having somebody outside of it. So, for example, I go to the London Leadership Academy and I really encourage other coaches to do that so they can get another aspect there. It's not just, you know, we turn up for supervision, we get the box ticked. You can you can go in a wee bit deeper and really have a look at that. The other thing I'd like to say is that I do think that today the coaches I've ever spoken to have got a very high level of self-awareness about what they might need. And, you know, like you were saying, Jeremy, there and sometimes they might have somebody that they're working with that they're not certain that they're giving them what they need. So they might come and talk to me a little bit about that. And we'll have a chat about that. So or talk to somebody else like in a co-supervision way. So maybe another more experienced coach as well. So a few ideas there.
Speaker 4Jeremy was mentioning there that, you know, it comes down to the contracting in a way. What's the contract between the supervisor and the organisation they're providing the supervision for? I mean, do you feel that your supervisors do? You're one supervisor that you mentioned that he does have a quality assurance role. I mean, if he so he hasn't come and said anything to you yet. I mean, will that be indicating that there hasn't been a problem or could that be indicating that it's not part of the contract for him to do that?
Speaker 5Yeah, that's an interesting one because because it's not happened. So I guess I think he would if he was concerned. I do think he would. And also just to say that we are quite a young cohort of coaches, too, if you know what I mean. Like so and this might lead on to some other questions you have. But when I arrived at the trust, there was six recognised coaches at the trust. Now, in the meantime, I've found a few that basically just hadn't been active. But now on a register, we have around 75. And of those, about 60 or so. About 60 of those people are newly trained. Okay. And I know them by name. And if anything was flagging up, perhaps during their training, we're good enough pals or confidentially robust that they'd come and say, I'm really worried about this aspect of my training. So that could have happened even six months ago. They'd say, oh, you know, I haven't got enough hours. That's that's easily fixed. Or there was just something. I don't think I got this right. Do you think I should talk to the external coaching people about that? And I think that's that's great. That's why we like having an external coaching facility. It's not up to me. I'm not I'm not watching them. If you see what I mean, it's when while they're in training and a little bit post training, I'm confident that people would speak up enough to say, you know, it didn't feel right or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 4Something about their levels of self-awareness that you're absolutely. Thank you. And we have been asking all our guests about definitions of supervision. What what's the meaning of supervision for you in UCLH?
Speaker 5So it's well, in brass tacks, it's quarterly. It's a safe, confidential space for our coaches to meet and discuss a live issue. I mean, examples that I know of are should I or should I not terminate a relationship, for example, that somebody is it's just not working or by both have agreed that it's not working, for example. Those are the sort of things that are coming up. But if there are themes, the supervisor will will feed them back to me. We also have a coaching and mentoring steering group where if it hasn't come up at the end of supervision, then it would come up. There, he might just shoot me an email and we'll have a quick meeting about it there. Well, I guess what I'm saying there is that I would hate to think that he was a watchdog. I would I wouldn't I wouldn't want that. And I don't think he would want that. think he would want that either um I want it to be a really safe space for people today it's been a really easy thing to do because the coaches who are self-aware show up for supervision then we've got the other issue is well what about the folk who don't show up are they literally just too busy or are those the folk that should be coming to supervision it's the same I'm sure that's a conundrum you've had yourself um so I don't I don't really know the answer to that but certainly I advertise it a lot and we tag on CPD with ours to kind of draw the numbers in
Speaker 2if you like yeah very good thank you I think that's very interesting the fact that you've got coaches that aren't going for supervision um because it's it is it I think that's the most serious problem in internal coaching is the failure to recognize during training the value that supervision brings and for for those of us who go to supervision a lot I mean I do quite a lot of supervision both as supervisor and supervisee the value that I get out of it just grows and grows I mean the more supervision I do the better I enjoy it because it gives so so much back and I'm I'm wondering how we can get the the more supervision I can get out of it just grows and grows I mean the more supervision I can get the more supervision I can get out of it just grows and grows I mean the more supervision I can get the just a little bit of experience will give them this idea that actually there's more to come from this every time I go it gets better you know I get more from it so I'm wondering if part of the story to tell is about as about that very similar to the the coaching story is there is this non-stop learning you just get better and better at everything and supervision is exactly the same it helps you to do that but you enjoy it more and more when you do it I just think it's it's it's really important that
Speaker 4I was just remembering something from one of our previous interviewees um Jeremy where they were saying that it's noticeable that the training companies that pitch for training uh cohorts of internal coaches don't actually include in their pitch in their package as it were the supervision supervision post-training yes and that if that was much more built in and that the coaches when they were training were much more aware that the coaches were much more aware that the coaches were much more aware of you know it's it's a continuous process and that it isn't just that CPD and supervision are a nice to have little bonus if you can find time for it later but it is actually part of the whole training package is that you train and then you have supervision but it might make a difference to how they to how they view it and the extent to which they take it up could you maybe Lou give us a bit of a the background of the sort of the story if you like to um internal coaching and mentoring at UCLH because we know that you've been there for three years you were saying how there was only six people and you got there loads more now um but I mean I think it may have a longer history and I don't know how much of that you know from before you arrived but could you just give us a bit of background so how it's yeah so um I I I applied
Speaker 5for this role because I had a coaching bent to it as it were but I too have a day job so I facilitate training at the trust that was a split role if you like and when I got to the the trust um the person before me had left to have a baby and um then got a new role and and left off so she she'd made a start on it and there was definitely some um training in place however completion rates were quite low it was um it was a wee bit disappointing like loads of people had signed up to train to be coaches um I'd say that the completion was down at like 15 percent really oh yeah really low um and a lot of people at different stages and of course um it's a thing like the the usual suspects all the people who completed that training and were now maybe thinking of upgrading their training I can tell you they are the people who come to supervision they're like old hats from the trust there but anyway so like I said I found out that there was a lot of people who were going to be trained to be coaches and I found out that there was a lot of people who were going to be trained to be coaches and I found out that there was a lot of people who were going to be trained to be coaches and I found out that there was a lot of people who were going to be trained to be coaches and I found out that there was a lot of people who were going to be trained to be coaches and I found about six people like that that had really stuck with the training were very committed to coaching at the trust and we realized we needed a wee bit of a strap line so we we between ourselves and the the steering group that we set up we got our terms of reference organized and we decided that our strap line would be um embedding coaching and mentoring in the way staff learn and develop at UCLH and because I reported into staff development we in the way staff learn and develop at UCLH and because I reported into staff development we that little label for ourselves but it also created a big job for me because I had to start embedding um so we needed to train or or complete the training of as many people as we could so some people kind of abandoned one level of training they went to another one um and like I said three years on we've got between 75 and 90 trained coaches on our hub now now that that figure is a little bit interesting because there's between the 75 and the 90 are people who are like just qualified then went on maternity leave or I've got way too many people I just need a break from coaching all those so there's all sorts of reasons why that's but um really loads of people and sometimes I met coaches like in lifts and corridors you're a coach come on sign up and let's get you on this piece of software that we had called the hub which is still in existence and that's what I used to um match people um today we have 300 service users on the hub looking for coaches um and at the moment our average is that most coaches have about two coaches I just did some sort of number crunching before we came on have we embedded the culture now yes and no um I'd like to see more of it I'd like to see coaching happening in all kind of interactions and one of the things that I that I helped to use that to take to embed that is I run a course called and I facilitate this online currently called foundations of coaching so we look at what's coaching what's not coaching where does it intersect with mentoring what is a coaching model and then how we can harness those coaching ideas and use them in day-to-day interactions and that's where I'd like to see coaching be in place. embedded more at the trust it's using coaching tools as you're chatting to people and contracting safely to do that obviously and that's where I think it would would come in much more yeah thank you you mentioned mentoring there am I right in thinking you have mentors as well I do yeah well we do sorry um the trust does have mentors nowhere near as many as the coaches and that's simply because we've been really focused on coaching um at the moment we're doing a massive push to get more mentors because there's amazing amounts of skills and experience at the trust it's just a question of lassoing them in to to get um to get them ready to to mentor other
Speaker 2people yeah with your training program do you have a the next cohort you have an ambition for how many coaches that you want to have in UCLH?
Speaker 5well certainly I had some KPIs around that and I've knocked them out the park which I'm thrilled about um ultimately I think I more more the answer to that more so is to have a cohort every year as standard yeah so and the cohort's 15 every year we're getting 15 more people added to the
Speaker 2the pot if you like yeah inevitably there's going to be some attrition but how many people are in UCLH? who are potential users of that service so there's well there's 10 000 staff
Speaker 5and currently we have 300 people registered for coaching um and for mentoring there's around 90 so approximately 400 people are on the system there so I'm trying to do a quick calculation of that Jeremy but yeah not so many yeah there's a long way to go then in terms of
Speaker 2a long way to go yeah this ambition of embedding coaching and mentoring into the way people learn
Speaker 5in UCLH and develop as well the develop part is good what I guess I'd really like to see is more like managers using it in day-to-day conversations yes and that's where we we plug it in the a lot of the different well definitely on foundations of coaching module that I deliver but we do our leadership management program it's certainly um offered there and it's I guess we we talk a lot about situational leadership and where we can coach or delegate or manage or direct yeah all those different things that can happen there um and that's generally when questions come up during the leadership management they're like well what is this coaching anyway okay well and and perhaps I'll come in and do what I call a coaching cameo and and let people know this is what it is this is how it works and well what do you think yeah when you do that cameo do you mention supervision absolutely yeah and people are often surprised that coaches require supervision don't forget i'm talking to a lot of clinical people a lot of psychosocial um counselors there's there's loads of people with that at the trust as well um obviously clinical supervision and they're like oh well why why do coaches need supervision and obviously um i explain that but it's um yeah some people are surprised that it's as important that's how seriously we take it yeah that's really good
Speaker 2because i think that's part that's part of telling the story the whole story isn't it not just the um the element of training and here we are with a trained coach when it comes to those manager coaches those who are using coaching approaches coaching techniques as part of their management to their way of doing do you feel that supervision is is something that needs to cover that as well and if so how would you see that happening look i think you you've certainly
Speaker 5got a point there but generally what i say is and that's why if people want to know how to use it day to day i say please come to the foundation session because it's good that you know what formal coaching is before you leap into coaching style conversations so you know where your boundaries are and if you do get into um difficult waters are you confident you can navigate your way out there without having to be a formally trained coach with supervision and if so where would you go who would you do that with and so we do have various um we have a marvelous uh backup as i call it or what do you call it um a support document that we offer people and indeed chat with with with me if that's going to help if they're if they do get a bit into hot water out there is that good enough quality i don't know i don't know the people who are trained coaches who are out there using coaching style conversations i have no problem with them at all i think that's there i'd be very confident that they're going to stand behind that it's people who are maybe trying it out and and not always getting what
Speaker 2they want well i think that that um boundary management that you mentioned is a real area of concern in uh managers using coaching approaches and techniques um and i know one organization that has a sort of supervision on tap so if somebody has experienced something which has given them some cause for concern there's a number to call there'll always be a coach available a supervisor available to give them a five-minute chat so it's it's very much about um the availability and the timing of the coaching so here and now is a great way to just check up on what might have happened because with a with a manager as you will know only too well but by the time and hour or two has passed you've forgotten the detail of what it was and by the time a day or two has passed you won't mention it again you know it's it's it's long and you've lost the opportunity to learn from that incident so that kind of um uh instant um almost an emergency call out for a bit of supervision just for five minutes to talk me through this you know let me let me just think about what's happened here you know if somebody leaves a conversation in tears um what have i done you know what what what should i have done differently that kind of thing you know so it's it's a it's a great thing to do but it requires organizations to have the resource to do it and i'm and i know of one that is now training its senior coaches in supervision just to do that or in part to do that i should say sure thing that's a great idea yeah and i'm
Speaker 5thinking about me when i was a new person at the trust and sort of very little experience of nhs challenges and i was so fortunate because my my manager and her manager they're coaches so if i you know i know that maybe some conversations didn't go exactly as they they tell you they will in training like as you can i run something past you for a moment and it was so helpful so incredibly helpful so i don't know you might have given me a good idea here jeremy yeah
Speaker 4yeah sure i certainly know from talking to supervisors that often i mean it's very it seems to be very rare to have a call-out contract with an external supervisor and that um what they often say is if they run supervision groups for an organization then they say to the people in their supervision groups look if you have a ethical dilemma or something where you really need to chew it over quite quite soon uh decide what you're going to do um then the organization isn't paying me to do it but give give me a call i can't give you that long because but but i'll do it and it seems to me quite wrong that we should be relying on the on the just just the you know the the niceness of the supervisors if you like um to do that kind of thing rather than having call-off contracts which don't seem to be a terribly acknowledged thing i mean because obviously most organizations don't like open-ended contracts do they um you know so you can see why they don't do it but nonetheless i think it can be very hard for coaches if they say have supervision once a quarter or even twice a year you know um that that doesn't really work for stuff that you need to chew over in the moment does it
Speaker 2yes i'm wondering if you if you've thought of of giving supervision training to three or four of your most experienced coaches
Speaker 5yes of course yeah it's been on our um horizon for a while um we had been waiting well the last time i looked i remember it's probably just before the pandemic somewhere some training was offered via the london leadership academy and unfortunately the person at our trust she literally just missed out on it um one other person got it and she was so inspired by it that she left the trust she took all her lovely expertise with her so um yeah so we'll um we're still i think we we certainly have it in our sights to do so absolutely and um i you know i think also um cpd and costs and all that come in there but i think also we want to make sure it was the right kind of training too so it was making sure yeah but yeah definitely on the on the list because this one person we we can't rely forever you know what happens if you know they're not there or they decide to take a new job or
Speaker 4something yeah yes actually 75 to 90 coaches i mean that's a lot for one person to be supervising um i mean i realize they're not all taking the supervision up but nonetheless if you were to do a big push that everybody did take supervision up it would presumably be that would be quite quite difficult for him to sort of take the supervision up but i think it would be a lot more difficult for him to sort of take the supervision up but i think it would be a lot more difficult for
Speaker 5just by that name would it yeah yeah or we definitely run more than one session especially
Speaker 2when you're bringing 15 new ones in every year lou that's uh that's going to increase the challenge
Speaker 5maths on that yeah yeah that's a bit mind-boggling yeah although i do do encourage people like maybe this date doesn't work for you please go to the london leadership academy um use their services as well and i know some people have been going there because i i use the london leadership academy because i don't want to be in our own in-house supervision i mean everybody's very nice and all that but i'd like people to get a full experience i don't want them to think i'm
Speaker 1checking up on them yeah yeah the emcc uk has made recent updates to the commercial coaching agreement this agreement offers coaches mentors consultants and supervisors who work within an organization the opportunity to improve their skills and skills and skills and skills and opportunity to establish a legal agreement with their clients this delivers huge benefits to both buyer and seller and sets the standard for professional working agreements if you're an emcc uk member this agreement can be accessed for free contact info at emcc uk.org for more information or alternatively visit the emcc uk website and search under resources
Speaker 2and the leadership academy does group supervision doesn't it they do yeah yes i thought so yes small groups
Speaker 4though yeah and do you tend to be in the same group because you know one of the things i find quite interesting about group supervision is that you know some some people think it's really important that it should be the same the same people each time so they can build up those relationships and that safe space and get to know each other well whereas many organizations actually when they're doing group supervision it's you know it's a it's a it's a moving target as it were i mean different people attend different group you know at different times and therefore they don't really have that sense of building up a group ethos and getting to know each other
Speaker 5really well where do you stand on that i myself um i i like to go to as many different types of supervision and hear as many different types of issues within supervision because i think it's really good for my learning to hear because i mean supervision when i bring something that's one thing but when i hear somebody else being supervised i i'd say that's 200 better i don't know why that is because often you're so caught up in your own thing aren't you when you're you're you're talking it through but witnessing other people be supervised if you like and i like to see a wide and varied version of that so i go to go to quite a lot of very different ones i'm
Speaker 4not hung up on having a group like that's really interesting the whole safe space it's not that important to you it's much more interesting to get the richness of a lot of
Speaker 5different absolutely yeah but that's that's just me you know i mean i know some other people are very very precious about that and i don't mean negatively precious i mean just that's very very important to them and and absolutely knock yourself out but for me i i want to know more
Speaker 2and wider yeah i think that's it yeah that's really interesting that i know that there are organizations who at least in the past if not now didn't regard group supervision as supervision because it wasn't one-to-one uh and you're saying actually i get more from being an observer in a group supervision situation than i do being the supervisee in that same situation so there's a there's a it demonstrates the the value of group supervision in a different way which is very
Speaker 5interesting to hear yeah i i think um also you know i'm sure there's all sorts of studies done on that all that but certainly in previous roles um for example i had um i would train people in group therapy how to manage a group situation and i think i really like group learning that's certainly been part of my career if you like has been an idea of we're much better than the sum of our parts if you know what i mean i really i really like that and i think that's a really good point i think that's a really good point
Speaker 4like that and but not everyone is you know like you say the guy who runs your the external guy who runs your supervision groups um do you have an arrangement with him that he feeds back any themes that emerge for educational learning yeah absolutely and um he um for example uh he's he
Speaker 5was one of the instigators behind the skills practice forums which we now um colloquially call the the breakfast club um and yeah he was saying he was a great champion of that so he kind of went a bit full circle with that he he kind of suggested it to me i put it to the coaches uh and now he gives it a little plug every time we have the supervision and it's um we meet uh every every we meet the last friday of every month for about an hour and a half an hour 15 minutes an hour and a half generally oh those numbers can vary they can go from three up to about 10 yeah yeah very
Speaker 4good and does the breakfast club have a particular purpose how do you see its purposes being so what
Speaker 5i'll do is um the week before i'll send a coaching model and what i call a cheat sheet with it and um it's like a worksheet type of thing and ask um people to think of something they could bring fictional or otherwise and we we just get set up in threes and go out into the breakout rooms and
Speaker 4and work through the the model hey so cpd really yeah absolutely yeah well what a valuable thing
Speaker 5i like the sound of that yeah and there's i think of this there's some real stalwarts doing come you know like those three are definitely part of the ten and and the six and the you know and it it's just people who are really really like the model approach yeah you know they're aware that of course we're going to go off piste absolutely but yeah let's let's get as much
Speaker 4exposure to this as we can and um so i guess there's a lot of organizational learning that comes out of the breakfast club as well as the supervision yeah what do you do with that learning
Speaker 5where does it go so well there's a number of things um we like i said we offer coaching as as a it sits beside all of our leadership management offer so when people are they sign up for we've got five four or five levels of leadership management training um and alongside that you can have a coach or a mentor or one of each if you like we haven't had that yet but we might have a you know a mixture um and those coaches are ready they're they're part of that offer so i mean coaches just want to get better at feeling really comfortable what well this is what they've told me they want to get really comfortable with a model and then that way they'll know if they can amend it or bend it whatever they need to do um that means that they can stay on our hub or register and that's where we start to offer that out as a model and that's where we start to offer that out as a model is standard to all of our leaders and managers when they're on the training more often than not that it's that managers might not be asking for coaching but it might be people who report to them that are asking yeah so that's how the coaches get used you know so so for example maybe a mid-level manager might get exposed to coaching and go you know what that might not be for me just yet or maybe it isn't they can maybe go over to the leadership academy and they can go over to the or if they want to go outside of the hub we also have a massive um external coaching offer that's still going i can talk you through that as well um but oftentimes i'd say that over if i had to look at the people who are participating in coaching we're looking at between bands five and seven and it could be that their manager is either a coach and doesn't want to coach them and they've said oh um what is this coaching thing and i get lots of emails saying i think i'd like a mentor but in fact what it is is they've got mixed up with coaching and mentoring yeah that kind of between bands five and seven so maybe not quite a manager yet maybe looking to be a manager all those sort of things and then all the way up again
Speaker 4very good and what's the role you mentioned that you had a steering group yes the role of that i mean do you feedback any of the organizational learning to that absolutely so we tell them about
Speaker 5the well there's a whole section in it where i just give trends and themes of what's happening in terms of the activity on the hub so i'll do some some stats on that as well um how many of the leaders and managers are engaging in coaching too and that's where that external offer comes in um then if we want to try something new so for example we wanted to upgrade our hub system it's it's best that these people the the stakeholders know about that um we launched for example a rebooted version of our 360 degree feedback process and because there's a lot of connections and who's managing that that it seemed appropriate that they knew about that um and one of the the brilliant things about that is that we've had a lot of people that have been involved with it and we've had a lot of people that have been involved with it and we've had a lot of people that have been involved with it and we've had a lot of people that have been involved with it and things that's come out of that is that standard you will have a uclh coach walk you through your um 360 degree feedback and we've had really great feedback on that feedback yeah yeah that's such a
Speaker 4great use of a coach yeah isn't it yeah and decide what you're going to do with it that
Speaker 5absolutely yeah and you know we have a we have a sort of sub cohort of coaches dedicated just to that and that is growing and it's that's been really really helpful there too um what else do we do at the so anything that's remotely coaching and mentoring focused we um we simply must run it past them i guess we just want to sense check it so because it's not just me out there doing everything and um you know we we want to make it better and in fact that's something that we're it's on your agenda for the next one if we want to make it better how will we know that we've made it better our service so this is really good timing that we're talking through this and and
Speaker 4that comes on to evaluation which is a whole new area that we can't talk about now but actually yeah a bit of being my body about evaluation i think it's incredibly important i'd love
Speaker 5i'd love to hear what you have to say about that because we've got the technology is just
Speaker 4what do we ask yeah yeah yes well we must have a conversation after um Now, I think we're probably going to have to wind up, but it's been great. lou and jeremy and i tend to take a moment at the end to to highlight what struck us in particular from the conversation what what stood out for you jeremy a couple of things the the sheer number of
Speaker 2coaches that you've got lou and the determination to add 15 a year i mean i think that's just wonderful so to see that coming to life in the way that it is around you must be a joy for you um and on a on a very personal level for you and me uh that remark that you made which illustrated the value of being an observer in group supervision that is a rarity i don't hear that very often you know i'm i hear oh you know you need to be the the supervisee in the group supervision to really learn something but i share your view that observing somebody else's supervision is a wonderful learning experience and there's so much you can take from that um and if you think about all the supervision books that you might have read the bulk of them are doing just that you are an observer on somebody else's supervision and that's how you learn um and doing it in in the moment in a group supervision setting i think is a absolutely splendid way to um gain new insights into your own supervision so thank
Speaker 4you for highlighting it yeah thank you and for me as well the sheer scale of a number of coaches and mentors was very impressive i think what i was most struck by actually was simply that a lot of organizations don't really take a very strategic approach to coaching you know there's a there's an enthusiast who gets it going which is obviously great but the there's often a lack of governance and so i was impressed by the fact that you do have your your steering group and that you're reporting back to it regularly and you're having you're really thinking about is it working is it not you know what's how many relationships we've got going um you know do we need to recruit more and so on um so the whole governance part of it i was actually very impressed by but i also love the fact that you've got your strut line about embedding coaching and mentoring and you know and how people work in uclh and i think that's really important because that's something that people can grab onto you know and have some clarity about why why it's happening um so i got a lot out of that and really enjoyed it lou thank you so much for joining us well thank
Speaker 1you for having me yeah thank you for listening to this podcast from the emcc uk together our aim is to promote good practice and the expectation of good practice in coaching mentoring and supervision to learn more about the emcc uk and to find out about membership accreditation events cpd opportunities and learning resources visit emccuk.org and remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss a future episode
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