Inside the Internet IP Gold Rush Sweeping Hollywood

This episode is presented by AMC Network, a new chapter in Anne Rice's Immortal Universe begins with AMC's The Vampire Listot. Get a backstage pass to the iconic frontman who Pace magazine calls a Bowie-inspired rocker that will have fans screaming. Don't miss the legendary vampire Listot Delian Corps in his own electrifying rock saga. Watch The Vampire Listot Sunday's only on AMC and AMC Plus. Learn more at AMCplus.com. It is Wednesday, July 8th. Most movies are based on something, a book, TV show, a toy, a magazine story, another movie. These days you don't need me to tell you that the internet is very hot as a place to find source materials. The huge success of Iron Lung from a popular YouTuber and especially back rooms, which originated as a meme on Reddit and was developed by its director as a YouTube series, that unleashed a frenzy of source to identify and develop the next digital sensation that can be translated to the big screen. It's been a welcome market for a lot of writers and producers I've talked to. They've been frustrated by the decline in development budgets at the studios, the lack of appetite for edgier material, and now Lung comes a couple big fat hits to justify taking chances on unconventional IP, from creators that maybe don't have the traditional track record. One of these producers is Scott Glasswell, he's got a company, 1201 Film, he's also been a talent manager for filmmakers and his specialty lately has been finding internet-based material and packaging it with Hollywood talent and selling it to studios. Last week Warner Brothers picked up a project of his called Siren Head that Glasswell'd helped put together with the Weapons Filmmakers at Craigor and the writer Brian Duffield, the viral horror property that centers on a tall skeleton with two sirens as a head. Scott also told a movie to Amazon called Seasons based on the viral horror short that first appeared on Reddit. We're going to talk about this booming market, what the studios are looking for here, how to actually source this stuff online, how to not source it, and whether chasing the next viral digital horror movie can really be a good business. I'm Matt Bellany, and this is The Town. Alright we are here with Scott Glassgold, a producer at his own company, 1201 Film's also manager, doing lots of stuff, hyphenate, welcome Scott. Thank you very much for having me. Alright, so you are on the show because everybody around town seems to be talking about this gold rush for internet based movie development. It's like the classic story in Hollywood, something hits, hits really big, and then there's a rush to fill the void and the studios are all of a sudden open to things that they were maybe not open to. Is that your experience as someone who's been in this market for a while? Is the recent success of Iron Long and Back Room says that boosted the market for maybe unconventional digital source material at the studios? Unequivocally yes, I've been around long enough to see a lot of micro trends. I would describe this as a macro trend. Oh okay, that's good. Oh 100%. Like I would say over the course of the past few months, starting with Iron Long, obsession, back rooms, you could almost feel the DNA of the town changing a little bit. And look, I think it's crazy exciting. And it's also that's not entirely an vacuum, right? You have the success of those three films, coupled with some free existing IP projects that did it play in the marketplace. And I think holding those two things upside by side really caused everyone in town to just do a little bit of a rethink of where our energies and focus should be because clearly that's where the audience is. And this is not entirely new. I mean, we've been talking about how Hollywood is going to create IP that appeals to Gen Z audiences for at least five to seven years now. I mean, I think someone I was talking to traced it back to Minecraft. The fact that Minecraft was so big and it really opened everybody's eyes to the changing nature of what is appealing, like superhero stuff is for old people now. And it's these younger properties, but the fun aspect for me is watching these big monolith studios and their 50 and 60 something executives try to wrap their heads around a Reddit meme or a short story that unfolds on Twitter or Reddit as a basis for a movie. And that's where people like you come in. Look, I agree with you on Minecraft, but I also actually even sought with Super Mario, right? Like obviously it's a huge IP or five nights at Freddy's, like these kinds of younger properties. Yeah. And look, at the end of the day in terms of where the material is being sourced, I still think there's a huge qualitative aspect to it, right? Like I spend a great deal of my time in short stories. We started on Reddit. I mean, we've been mining Reddit short stories for like five years now. And at the end of the day, it's a short story, whether it came from some literary magazine or it came from Reddit, it's a short story. And there is a long history in this town of short stories being turned into great films, right? So, you know, your window, Shawshank Redemption, like the short story in of itself as a foundational piece of material is undeniable. Having said that, what I think is very unique about the reddits of the world. And it is part and parcel with the YouTube's of the world is the democratization of it, where anybody in the world can literally put their material up. And just because they put it online doesn't mean anybody's going to recognize it. It ultimately has to be, you know, the cream of the crop. But it is access that anyone around the world has that they didn't have before. And I think that's what is allowing for new voices to rise. But I want you to take us through your sourcing process. Sure. Because I have this vision in my head of 20 assistants at the agencies and management companies all combing Reddit during the day, like it's 1849 and they're in the Sierra's with their mining equipment trying to find that gold nugget in the stream when most of it is just garbage. Like how do you do that? How do you source material on digital platforms? It's a great question. And maybe I'll walk you back to the very beginning for our first Reddit short story. And then from there, I could speak to sort of the apparatus that we built, right? A few years ago now, a writer that I worked with Harrison Query incredibly talented was like, hey, my brother wrote a short story on Reddit and is blowing up. Will you check it out? Now mind you, like, this is like during COVID where no one's mind was really on like, what's the next hot Reddit short story? And he's like, well, you read it. And I'm like, oh, like there goes my afternoon, right? And I got to read a writer's brother short. And I read it in one sitting and it was amazing, like amazing. It was this piece called my wife and I bought a ranch. And I was like, oh, like conceptually it was big. The writing was exquisite. And I was like, this is a movie like we can build this into something. Okay. So you identify it as something great. What are the IP rights issues involved there? When you just take it and he claims ownership, does Reddit have a stake in this? Like, how does that work? That's a great question. So there is a release that Reddit signs where they don't really have any rights, but you do ultimately need Reddit to sign a release. Oh, you do. Interesting. It's some sort of like third party usage that you need and we've, they've always been great partners. They've always signed it for no money. For no money. For no money. Because this is like, you're talking about a project that has now become this project seasons with the James that is set up at Amazon MGM. And this could potentially be a $100 million grossing movie and Reddit gets nothing. They get nothing. They get nothing. Interesting. I mean, if I, if I'm being entirely transparent, where even now when we have original sort of stories that we curate, we don't always put them on Reddit anymore for those exact reasons. There's no reason to introduce a third party when it's, it's almost like reverse engineering. We don't, we do that lesson. Yeah. I did notice that YouTube was very quick to congratulate Cain Parsons on back rooms. I wondered if deep down they were like, man, do we just give up a big stake of money? I mean, look, it's possible, but like, to me, what's so interesting about all of this and Cain and Curry and and more importantly, like all incredibly talented is like, there's a 1.0 to all of this where everyone's talking about like the, the craze of, of, of the YouTube filmmaker, but like, you know, one generation prior to all these very talented people is like, you've got Dan Tractuber, you've got Westball, you've got Fetty Alvarez, you've got David Sandberg, all who made viral shorts on YouTube and got gigs and that went on to great success. Like, huge success. But those were, those were different because they were proving grounds for directorial talent. But is going on now is the actual IP being created on these platforms is what is being turned into movies. I completely agree. Sandberg lights out, took off on YouTube and they turned that into a movie, but for the most part, you're 100% right and it's, it's the thing that we concentrate on where one is a calling card and one is doing a calling card that is also transactional. And when you're doing something that's transactional, that's when you have this huge inflection point. sort of third piece of that is. that they've built incredible following. We're even, you know, curry with obsession. Like obsession isn't something that necessarily was born out of the pieces of material he was doing online, right? However, he's got millions of people that are aware of him and it's just sort of all boats rise with that. - Right. So, okay, so continue through the process. You've identified this short story and that's on Reddit, you are developing it. What are the next steps? - I mean, this one took off like a rocket because remember, this was the first one. So there was no blueprint. Now we have a blueprint. So, you know, I do a lot of work with my friends at Verve. I call the talent agency. - Talent agency, David Boxerbound, Adam Levine. I'm like, we've got something really special here. I think we could take it to market. Like, it's just so conceptually clear. And I kid you not, I read it on a Tuesday. I fried a five studio bidding war and I know you never believed the numbers, but this one sold for over a million bucks, right? - As long as Shane Salerno is not involved, I'm more likely to believe in if Shane Salerno is not involved. But keep going. - So, sold that. And then a week later, we did a book deal for it. And that's very much became like the blueprint of how we operate. Like, in the total of 10 days of not even being aware of this short, to 10 days later, where we had a film project I partnered with Dan Cohn and Michael Clear, same guys who just did background. This is the five years ago, to make this movie. And now, like you said, we're greenlit, we're making that in August. So, that's it from what was just a reddit short to development. We moved studios from Netflix to Amazon to a go movie. - Why did Amazon take over from Netflix? - You know, it's an old regime at Netflix. And so the person who bought, this is free Dan Lynn, the people who bought it, weren't even there anymore. Like our executive was gone. And these things happened, you know, so. - So you got it back. - We got it back. And, you know, credit to, this is an interesting side note of like Alicia Holmes was at MGM. And she bid for it and lost it to Netflix. And she never let it go. She's like, this is an incredible project, incredible project. And when it came out of Netflix, she's like, I still want this. And she's our executive at Amazon and we're making it. So, it's sort of all as well that ends well, as it was where it was meant to be. - And how long is that? If it were a book, how long is that short story? That was unreadable. - Typically, our short are between like 10,000 to 12,000 words. - Okay. - And, you know, what happens is on the course of development, we're creating books as well. And what that does is a few things are all at once. It allows us to grow the IP while simultaneously developing the project. So my wife and I bought a ranch, the short story, became a book called Old Country. And that was a really well-received book. And I think that very much helped us forward face when it came time to find a new home for the project, where we could point to something we're like, watching it posted a huge spread of like, are these writers the next Stephen King? And I say all that because that very much becomes baked in to how we approach our short stories moving forward. After the success of that project, I immediately like called it fine out, like on my business. And I was like, oh, this is a model. And I'm finally going to answer the question that you asked three minutes ago of like, okay, so what does the process look like? In the wake of that success, I said this is where we should be lucky. And I scoured Reddit. Scoured No, so this is a few years ago. And when I found for the most part was, there was an interesting story to your point. Like, there was no curation here. There wasn't just sort of the silver bullet, home run ideas in there, but you know what was there? We're incredible voices. Just really talented people who maybe weren't focused on writing the right thing. And there's one writer in particular I found by the name of Marcus Cleaver. And he ultimately became the next writer that we sold with. But Marcus was, and he tells the story all the time. So I'm free to tell it. Marcus was living on his uncle's couch in Canada, literally on like Canadian welfare, just trying to make it as a writer. And like I said, I got him on the phone and I said, your writing is beautiful. Like truly, like the voice is extraordinary. But we need to focus on something more conceptual, like that sweet spot for Hollywood. And he listed out five ideas. And one of them was this piece called We Used to Live Here. And it was just, it had a great hook to it. Okay, great, that, that's what we should focus on. And we spent the next four months developing it. We took it to market. - Does that mean, did you tell him, hey, sign up for Reddit, get on Reddit, and instead of publishing this as a screen player book, you should start doing it as Reddit. - Exactly, well, he was already, I found him on Reddit. So it was very organic to, we took the short that he developed, right? And when it was done, we put it on Reddit. And it just became something to point to, of hey, this is ascending, people were finding it, while we simultaneously took it to market. - I have this vision in my head of development executives passing on a short story. And then you take that same story and put it on Reddit and then sending it to the same executive who said, this is brilliant, I'm buying it immediately. - I mean, I wouldn't, it doesn't sound so far fetched. Let's put it that way, right? What does traction look like on Reddit? Scott, like, how well does it need to be doing? Is there like a general, how many upvotes? Like, when do you determine that something has kind of crossed the barrier where you actually want to start going after it? - Well, okay, I see what you're questioning. Your question is, if there's something online and I'm chasing it versus something that we put online, right, Greg, your, your, your says, something that you discover or someone in your company discovers. - Yeah, 'cause there's millions of things that are viral online, like, how are you determining the right things to go after and how viral it needs to be? - I mean, honestly, it's about taking off like your internet beard goggles, right? And really looking at it as, is this a viable idea? Like, sure, it could be going viral, but you have to feel at the end of the day that there's a movie in there or there's a TV show in there. And it just because it's getting tons of clicks doesn't mean it's necessarily actionable. So to me, it's, it's, it's far less about the upboats than, you know, the funny thing about Reddit is usually the title of the piece is 25 words and it's like the concept, you know, whatever it is. And honestly, like, if we're doing our job well off of that title, you should at least know like, oh, there might be something there or not there. I mean, like, that's the initial limit of steps. - Yeah, I built a swimming pool in my backyard and it opened a portal to hell. - Basically, basically, right? That's a pass for me, sorry, Matt, but yes. Wes Anderson gets stuck in an elevator for a half hour with James L Brooks. - I was there. I was there for that screening. I literally saw him coming out of the elevator. - The sand fiction off of that video is pretty good. That could be a movie someday. - Oh, that was amazing. Yeah, I literally was there for that Q&A. But so to your point, Craig, like, to me, it's, I think it's really less about the chase and the heat on that stuff because inevitably, if it's chasing, it's a stampede. It's 1,000 people chasing this one thing. And to me, it's more about getting there first than it is because, honestly, look, it's about either getting there first or being the 800 pound gorilla. I'm not an 800 pound gorilla, so I need to get there first. - But you have a track record now. You can go to these people and say, listen, do you want this? I just sold this, this, this. This other guy chasing you is not that. - Well, that's why I'm on the town. This is my advertising. - I know, you can send him the link. - That's right. - I want a commission. - No, but to finish the point with Marcus Cleaver, so what we did with Marcus was we built this short out, got it, what I think was airtight, we took it to market and it when it became sort of this bidding war, we sold it to Netflix as well, coincidentally, back to back. And similarly, Marcus, we held back publishing. Marcus wrote a book called "We Used to Live Here" and it broke out. It's a huge success. And now his next book is called "The Caretaker." It came out a month ago, "New York Times Best Seller." So this is a guy who started on Reddit, living on his uncle's couch, and as of last month is a "New York Times Best Seller," right? And the second book was called "The Caretaker." That was a short story that we sold to Universal a couple years ago with Sidney Sweeney, active development, David Bruckner is writing the script right now. Lots of promise. But in the interim of that development process, we have a "New York Times Best Seller." So I can go back to Universal and say, "Hey, guys, remember that 30-page PDF?" You bought it, guess what? In addition to Sidney Sweeney and David Bruckner, like literally we're about to sell a million books, right? So to me, it's less about what's going viral this minute, as much as how can we authentically build an awareness and truly turn it into an IP, is where the real traction is. Hmm. And you feel that the rush to this genre right now is not going to create oversaturation in a year, because I'm looking out right now for a year or two from today. And I'm seeing a horizon with tons of these ripped from Reddit, ripped from YouTube movies, and it may be a glut. It may turn the macro trend into a micro trend. Well, that's where I go back to sort of identifying this first and foremost as a medium, right? Whether it's short stories or whether it-- Yeah, it'd be good first and foremost. That's right. Like, the internet is new to all of us relatively to where we are developing things in film and television, right? And so, you know, we're all the. enough to remember the craze of when every TV show needed to turn into a movie, right? And you get mission impossible out of that. You get equalizer out of that and you also get a host of bad things. >> Ships. >> Ships is the worst. >> No comment. So anyway, so, but the point is, is television show as a medium a bad thing to adapt? No. But you have to make sure you're focusing on the right thing. And I think what will happen is if there's too much of that on the wrong thing, there will inevitably be blowback until there's a success and then we re-discover it again. >> This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, campaigns slow down, insights get buried, and opportunities get missed. That's why Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. To result, less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. To learn more, check out Accenture.com/Spotify. >> How savvy do you think the studio executives you're pitching are about what's going on online? >> Well, look, I, from what I see is that there's absolutely a very clear cut mandate across the board for studios and executives to be focusing in this area. And then I think from there, it's really case specific to the executives. We just sold a piece last week called Siren Head. It made a lot of noise. And when we first started making those calls, it was prepackaged. >> So explain what that means. You took the property and you attached producers and a writer to it. >> Sure. I'll go back even further. So Trevor Henderson is a fantastic creature designer. And I actually hired him for a movie I made called Tarot. He made nine non-monsters for me. I got him obsessed with the guy. I became obsessed with him because he created this creature called Siren Head in 2018. And it went nuts, like it went nuts online, like totally viral, like three billion tiktok views. And it's actually a mod on Roblox. Like it's- >> Literally, I looked at it. It literally has, it's a skeleton creature with two sirens of the head. Well, it's funny because it also has the sort of mystical quality to it. And I joke that it's sort of like the internet's big foot, right? >> Okay. >> Because kids are like, is it real or is it not real? So it's something I've been interested in for a really long time and for one reason or another, it wasn't available. But Trevor and I always stayed in touch. And in the wake of these past few months, I just went back to myself. Like if we're ever doing this, now's the time to do it. >> Right, so it was a perfect confluence. >> And when it was in development, it was in development somewhere else, like at another studio? >> It had been, it had come out of development and it was fully available, right? >> Okay. >> And simultaneously, Roy Lee is a producer who I do a lot of work with. Roy had already expressed interest in it as well. So it was, that's partner up and for anyone that's worked with Roy Lee, like Roy Lee can move mountains. >> Yeah. >> Great producer and he has a relationship with Zach Kregger, who is probably the hottest guy in genre filmmaking right now. >> That's right. So initially we started making calls just to sort of to your point of like talking to executives to familiarize themselves with like us and the material with just like, hey, this is coming, how does everyone, you know, putting it on your radar? And some places were like, oh, that's cool, yeah, I think I know it. And other places were like, say less, like we want it, right? So you start sort of getting a sense of the market. And simultaneously, you know, Roy was on set with Zach and they started having the conversation about Siren Head and one thing led to another where Zach really sparked to it, he's going to co-write it with Brian Duffield, Brian Duffield's going to direct it and it became this really fantastic package. But it all started with, to me, like Trevor Henderson's great creation, like it, to me, he goes back to what you were saying, just in the sense of like, it can't just be this sort of sizzle, there's got to be steak to it. And Siren has always something that to me has had steak to it, right? Regardless of what's going on, it just taking it out of this moment made the perfect sense, but it regardless of this moment, it still always felt like viable IP to me. >> Most of these projects are in the horror genre or the thriller genre. Do you see this trend metastasizing into other genres, comedy, romcom? You put your life story on Reddit, your meet cute with your husband or wife, and that can be developed? >> I'm always say that we are agnostic to genre, right? Over the past year, we saw the political thriller, a romcom, like sort of an apocalyptic movie, urban thriller, like really across the board, we've touched nearly every genre except straight drama to your point. I don't think there's any real room for a straight drama with the short stories that we do, right? I always say the short stories that we curate live somewhere between the pitch and the spec, but what all three of those things have in common is that they're very large conceptually. >> But none of those projects are go movies, are they? It seems like the green lights are coming for the horror stuff. >> I would say it takes time. I think we're really close on a handful of things that I would say cut to six months from now. I think we're going to have more than horror going, that's my gut. >> So the moral of the story here is Craig should be on Reddit while this show is taping and just banging it out. >> I think Craig and I should sidebar, he should spit ball with a few ideas that he's sitting on and we'll figure it out. >> I do have ideas, I have a lot of ideas. >> Yeah, if you do swimming pool, ported a hell, I want a kind of that. >> You got it. >> You got it. >> Scott, have you had any experience with like the studios or other producers learning the wrong lessons from this macro trend as you call it, like hey, what about this viral thread that I saw online, like could this be a movie, are you seeing a lot of that? >> Yeah, dumbest email from a studio executive where their kids showed them something at home and they're like oh, maybe this is a movie, I'll check in with Scott. And can you feel the out of touchness coming from studios or other producers, or would you say like well, yeah, sure, that's always been the case and the point is to have young savvy producers who understand what works and what doesn't. >> Yeah, I mean, to me, it's always, for any film, it's always going to be the marriage of concept with the filmmaker, right? So it's as much, and to your question, Matt, about where we are in terms of development and things getting made, like we've got some extraordinary filmmakers on our material that ultimately, if you're going to make a movie, that's what you need. No matter how sticky the idea is, how clever it is, or how viral it is, if you don't have a truly talented person actualizing it, you're not getting off the runway, or if you are, you might have a lot of turbulence along the way. So it's ultimately about the marriage of the two things that will yield success. So it's got to start, at least for our purposes, with the big idea, has to, has to be conceptually sound, but then you truly need a team to actualize it if you really want to have success. >> Well, that's why a lot of these successful production companies also have talent management firms attached to them, where you can develop the clients as writers, and then hopefully introduce them to different concept or IP, or they can introduce you, and then you can package it up and produce it together. I mean, look, the most fun about all of this with a short story in particular to your point is like, it feels like you can allocate, and I mean that in a way of whether it's designing a vehicle that's perfect for, we've got this amazing short story that we were lucky enough to attach the rock. The part is perfect for him, right? >> Which project is that? >> It's called RIPT. It's a 20s. >> That's not the one where he has dementia, is it? >> No, that's a new one that was just announced, this is a, we'll call it Fight Club adjacent, but it's really cool, but what I'm getting at is more so, it's designing these pieces in a way where you can curate, where it's like this would be perfect for the rock, and a short story is something that's so sort of easily accessible, like a pitch is sort of vapor. And as Rebecca always feels very binding, it's like, hey, X Huge Movie Store, here's a script where you start, and it's like, whoa, versus like you give them a short, and they can say, I like this, I like that. So before we go and build this out as a screenplay, we can curate together, and it's far more accessible. >> That's a nice way of saying that you don't have to make the rock read a whole book. >> I mean, he's been a great partner, and I'm sure he would read a book if we send him a great book. >> I'm joking. He's probably read more books than I have to say. All right. Thank you, Scott. Appreciate you coming on the show. >> Thank you guys very much. >> We're back with the call sheet, Craig, this morning, Emmy Noms, HBO, slapped around Netflix, 122 nominations, bigger than Netflix, although I think the story is probably the 87 nominations for Apple TV plus, or just Apple TV now, plus two for commercials. What did you think of the nominations? >> Yeah, you know, you can really feel the lack of model culture this year and the Emmy nominations. There'll be a lot of shows that are good shows, but not shows that are really kind of taking over the zeitgeist. Other than, of course, the Taylor Sheridan shows, which are actually the most popular TV shows, but those never get nominated, which is hilarious. >> It is amazing that they continue to snub Taylor Sheridan, who continues to Shit all over Hollywood in every interview that he does. It's an amazing blood feud But the big gripe I always have with the Emmy nominees these days is that voters check the box on the five shows that they love Yes, you know the pit and Hacks set records for nominations and they know this going into the season So like something like the the the Hacks final season it was insane They got five separate nominations for guest actress on Hacks and they programmed the episodes like they did an episode Where they go to this lesbian retreat and cherry jones and Leslie Bibb are the two women they meet there because they know that They're gonna get nominations. Oh, so you're saying they they gained the cash. Of course, okay? Of course, you know, there's a reason why Laurie Metcalf showed up in the finale of Hacks And it's because they know that they're going to get a nomination for her and they want to blow it out of the water and beat the bear and and studio records from the previous year which they did like to me It just feels like look if you have the sopranos sure everybody from the soprano should be nominated But but now that there aren't there isn't that show that's like the the biggest show in the country that everybody's watching Where everybody deserves a nomination and yet they still follow that formula It's like no matter what shows there are they just have to pick five where everybody gets nominated Yeah, I would argue that the pit is actually a hugely popular show I agree that everyone is nominated from The numbers on the pit are insane especially for appearing on HBO Max, which is a smaller service I grew that it's just funny though just because I don't know there's like more TV than ever and yet kind of the The saturation of the nominations is still so strong like I it's like we can't broad now Maybe it's because it's literally impossible for anybody to actually be watching all of the television shows that exist now Yeah, so best drama series the diplomat the gilded age a night of the seven kingdoms Paradise the pit pleuribus slow horses your friends and neighbors three apple shows Yeah, pretty pretty big for apple. Yeah apple now is becoming people are starting to confuse apple shows with HBO shows Which is a huge compliment to apple. It feels like that. That's a win for apple. It's a huge win for apple I know I'm gonna do a couple predictions. I think that for drama series, it's gonna be really tough to beat The pit. Yeah, it's just the show everyone watches they have been very smart the campaign has focused on the fact that they shoot an LA Like literally every other day. There's some news article and we're guilty of this and we had John Wells on the show to talk about it But the whole campaign is vote for the pit. You love the show and it supports a ton of jobs in LA. Yeah, yeah Which is a good campaign. Honestly, I'm for them using that in you know if Netflix is gonna make most of their shows in New Jersey and New Mexico, then they that should be used against them in the Emmy came here I know it should be about the quality of the show, but campaigns matter and that's what people think about when they're voting What do you think for comedy? So comedy is tougher. The at the norms are Abit elementary, the bear, hacks, Margot's got money troubles. That's a new one. David Kelly came on the town and did our event good for him Nobody wants this only murders in the building shrinking and widow's Bay I'm gonna go out on a limb here again three series nominations for apple. Lot of love for apple Everybody is gonna pick hacks to win because they've won before final season Yeah, they got the most nominations I think the momentum here is widow's Bay. Yeah, I think it's gonna be the surprise the Matthew Reese show It's got an element of horror. It's a comedy quasi and I think that it's gonna be like the studio where it becomes the show that everybody's talking about and they end up voting for it Yeah, I think if anything could unseat hacks it would be widow's Bay I agree with you. It has all the momentum I'm kind of bummed that like jury duty chair company like actual hard comedies didn't get nominated in this category But don't even get me started like jury duty was hilarious. They got a writing knob Which is cool, but you know I wish that they would boot some of these shows that are clearly not comedies like the bear chair companies a hard comedy that's going for it And I don't know I they got a couple some nominations, but it's always a bummer when you see like the bear once again And I'm like give it to a show that's an actual real hard comedy But I know and some of these shows are past their prime like you and I are going to be dead and buried and only murders in the building is still going to be putting out seasons See Martin Martin short will outlive us all. Yeah But so my big prediction today for the Emmys is I think widow's Bay is gonna shock and end up winning comedy series All right, that's the show today. I want to thank my guest Scott Glassgold producer Craig Horoback, artist Matt Pevick and Jesse Lopez and I want to thank you We will see one more time this week [MUSIC]