Inside the Hospices de Beaune: Purpose, Place and People

What if you had access to the world's leading minds of the fine wine world and beyond? What if you could pick their brains during three days of intensive workshops? What scenarios would they draft for tomorrow? What solution would they come up with to answer today's biggest challenges? Well welcome to the Arrini live sessions. I am your host, Paulin Dicare, Executive Director of Arrini Global and in this series we share some of the most impactful conversations we had during Arrini live. I will buy annual events bringing together critical thinkers from iconic and forward-thinking fine wine producers to leading academics and business leaders. Come with us as we envision the future of our industry. If you have ever set foot in bone in Burgundy, you will immediately remember the multi-colled roofs of the Espíste-Bone which have dominated the town central square since the 15th century. A repository of collective memory, this place like the Clauvujour of few kilometres to the north, contributes to the definition and the understanding of the Burgundian sense of place. The Espíste-Bone operates in a way that is unique in front and I believe in the world. Formerly the town's hospital, the site still belongs to the bone hospital group today and its rooms are divided between museum, open to the public and a retirement home reserved for its residents. But the Espíste-Bone is also a 72 hectare wine estate, formed since its origins by donations and bequest. And since 1859, in the third week of November every year, the Espíste-Bone wine auction has set the pace for the Burgundian calendar and attracts professionals and enthusiasts from all over the world. The profits from this incredible wine auction, covered by the media world wild, largely financed the bone hospital and maintained a valuable institution in the centre of a rural area. For this fourth episode of the Arrini live series, we meet Guillaume Corre, director of the Bone Civil Hospitals and Ludivine Clival, the estate manager in charge of the vineyards and wine making, live from the Espíste to understand their work and the impact on the Burgundi tower. So Guillaume Ludivines, thank you so much for welcoming us in this stunning King's Chamber. It's a real privilege being with you both. Guillaume, no one in France and are I say no one in the world has the same job as you. Could you start by introducing yourself and let us know why your job is so unique? Thank you. So as my team, I think you explained to you during the tour, the hospice civil de bone are unique in France and I think in the world. First of all, the hospice are a public hospital. So we have four sites, so Arne Lduc, Sir, Nuy Saint-Gorge and Bone. So we have plenty of specialties, we have emergency room, maternity, medicine, surgery, pediatrics and actually a lot of retirement houses. But first of all, it's a public hospital. So me, I'm the CEO of the hospital and I'm a civil servant. I'm a hospital director. So very far from the wine at the beginning but the fact that what is really, really special is the hospital owns the hotel here. So this is a beautiful beautiful place which is the most visited in Burgundy with more than 400,000 visitors per year. So it's quite a lot in France. And even more unique, the hospital owns two vineyards. So we own the domain de hospice de bone and we own the domain de hospice de Nuy Saint-Gorge. Which represent a total of 72 hectares of vineyards. So it's quite big vineyard for Burgundy. And what is another special thing is that the vineyards and the vines are explorated big and I'm sorry, directly by our wine world growers and our wine makers. So it's very, you can find a few other hospitals in France which have vineyards but reign not to explorated directly by the hospital. And so the money we earn thanks to our vineyards and the wine auction allows the hospital to invest in buildings and innovative equipments to improve the health of the population. So I think it's a very unique model. Yeah, and so we were saying, so the gardens that we've seen, I'm sure you've seen it, if the guide hasn't pointed out, it's the garden for the retirement house. So that's why we didn't start it. The visit here, despite being in the shade because it's actually where it's their house, it's where they live. And the chapel in Yospice is still used every Sunday for people from that house to go and pray if they want to. It's really still, despite being one of the oldest building in Burgundy, an active place it's for people to use as well. Yes, we try. The modern hospital is not here. Of course, it's not very far from here, but it's really modern. And actually we will build a new building. But we try to have this link between the modern hospital and the hotel view. For example, when we have new commas, new amprails, we organize here a day to understand exactly what are the auspices of the bone. So it's really a pleasure to welcome all these people in such a good place. So we try to have this link and we have a retirement house just next to the hotel view. It's a little bit old. I need a little bit of money to react to for a rebate. So please come on the search. Yes, exactly. Yes. Yes. So one of the things, when I understood what Guillain Job was being the director of a hospital and just being handed the keys of a vineyard, I thought about you Laura straight away. Because we spend a lot of time talking about wine and health and we're going to talk about it a bit more tomorrow. This is a place that health is actually being made possible thanks to wine because the hospital in bone wouldn't be able to survive without the money that's raised during the auspices cells. And that's also, we'll talk about it with Ludivine after that. But there's really a hospitality need to raise as much money as possible because that allows the hospital to stay in bone and for people to have local community and local access to something to health. Ludivine, do you want to tell us a bit about what you do? And here you are. Oh, what a question. Well, good afternoon to everyone. I'm really pleased to welcome you here and to have again the opportunity to explain how come an hospital have a vineyard and made the choice 165 years ago to still run the vineyard, to pay someone to make wine in a hospital and still to be providing care daily. So my job is something also very unique because it's not that often that a wine maker doesn't have any pressure about quantities, yields, economics, objectives, figures. You are in France, you know. I have a lot of pressure, but it's another story. The only thing I can just to mention about this particular job would consist in saying that it's a thing to make wine because we never make wine for ourselves. We always make wine for others. It's like a chef. We can cook for ourselves, but when we are very dedicated to things, we absolutely do that for the others, for people. And this is the way and the philosophy and the approach that we have when we make wine being the wine maker here at Post-Fisidobon, providing care to the vineyards, trying to not have too much medicines. So the organic conversion was a big challenge as well the last year. And this job is unique as well because we make wine for charity. And this keyword can sound something very easy to use, easy to go through, a little bit commercial as well. But when I first started here, just if I had the opportunity to share what I was told, I was first told, Madame Griebos, please never forget that you will work for a hospital. Of course at this moment, because I was the new young lady in place. I said, I put it in two minutes. And the first question. Yes. But I put it with a lot of well-educated things. I said, yes, sir. But by this time I was just like, say, okay, I can understand. But now I understand what was the meaning of these sentence. So I'm in charge of running the vineyards. with 23 growers working with me. I'm also in charge of making all the wines for the auction, for a great wine, for a great cause. And I'm also the one in charge of, from times, to be extracted for my daily items to be here with you. And to each other. And to each other. And to each other. And to each other. Thank you for today. And to our opportunity for you to be in the market, to be now among those people who will absolutely know what those pieces of the bone are. Because everybody sounds even French people, even people here, even some people in bone, there's some of them think that we are given grapes to make wine with by charity, or that we are just renting vineyards and making wine with. Most of the time when I have a group, and if I ask the question, do you have any questions? Some people ask me, but who own the vineyards? I said, OK, I need to do it again. I wasn't clear enough. So it's true that this particularity of making wine in this humanity, charity, hospitality system is something very, very strange, unique that can give the vertige, as I'm saying French. But daily, I have exactly the same work and job than any other wine maker, any other grower. If it's too hot outside, that would be too hot for the hospitable vineyard as well. They are not under magical things. So I have also to deal with very classical things about making wine and running vineyards. So it's something very unique. And my team is completely dedicated to work with me. So this is also a big part of this humanity part. And so one of the uniqueness of it is also how the vineyard constituted itself, because I'm sure you've heard it in your visits, but the vineyard is constituted by gifts. So people give, donate, and the last one was ten days ago. They were grand-cruis, for the code de nuit. I talked about pressure. So Ludivine, well, not her, so fivle, for the 200-year anniversary donated 18-AR. So 0.18 hectares to the estate that Ludivine will now have the charge to make wine with. And so your year is very, very different than the rest of the year of the vine makers that were in the room today, because your job stops on the third Sunday of November, right? Can you touch base on that? Yeah, of course. It's true. You're absolutely right to mention the origin of the 60 hectares big estate. And because we've been given all these plots, we are absolutely dedicated to take care about them. And it's also, it was also very modern to decide and to run the risk to sell these wines on Primer. It's unique. It's really common in Bordeaux. And it is the way of the very standard commercialization system in Bordeaux. But in Burgundy, it's really very unique. But the ID came 100 and maybe a little bit more than 65 years ago. It's because from the beginning, the hospice de bonne made the choice to run the vineyard, to make wine with. But by this time, it was starting to make quite a big quantity of wines plot after plot and donations after the nation. So one day, one of the administrators had the idea to look around what the other first very big families in Burgundy were starting to make, like Jadou, Bouchard Père, Droit, Latour. And they were starting, they were starting to explore their wines. So one of the administrators came across, came abroad, and tried to see how in Belgium, in Denmark, in Germany, how things could be organized. And when he came, he said, well, we've got something to do. We can also sell our wines. But the matter was how? We are not organized. We don't have any sales team. We are surgeons, nurses, nurses, doctors, employees of the hospital. And this is when, and how come the idea of this charity arrived, and saying, okay, we're going to make our wines, and then straight away after making them, we're going to sell them, and then all the money will come back to us very short delay. And that was the very modern and very good system of things. And it's still running like this. So it's true that all my babies leave not only a couple of months after the birth, but first of all, they are in very good hands, so I'm not worried at all. And then, because this is the same person in charge of both running the vineyards and making the wines, I wouldn't have time to look after the wines in very deep and precise conditions, because I already have to go back in the vineyards in March. So the calendar is not that bad either. It's still modern, because things just end. That's the nature of the split between the physical to and the negative as well, because they could have two calendars that would fit, and they didn't have to do both. Even if now, almost all of the growers are negation, and all the negation owns land. So it's more merged now than any time. But it's true that it's quite convenient for me to don't have any barrels left after March, because things are starting again in the vineyards, and I have to be dedicated to the vineyard again. And because 60 hectares going from Chabli to Puyushice is quite big, it's more than 130 plots that I need to run every week or every two weeks, because the time for me to go and see each one takes me more than 10 days if I only do that, and I don't have only do that to do. Does it have a team found in Chabli? Yes. Yes. They do both in Chabli and Puyushice. I've got a person there, and this person works for us, and also, and follow our instruction as well. And then we organize our own harvest there, and we drive the grapes from there to our place here in Bohn. So everything is made here. The uniqueness again is that because of the viticul-victical tourists, the growers are split, they all have to have their own material, like tractors and things. So they have to be actually viticul-trace, they often have something also on the side, so that they can use the material for the plots that they farm for the use piece, and for the plot that they will farm for themselves. So it gives a very particular model and energy and energy. That's the word. Well, sometimes I really feel like being the headwine maker of 23, 2.5 hectares of estates instead of 60 hectares of big. So every time you see in the retailer shop a label, because all the wines are made by Ludivine, and they all sold under the label of those piece de bune, regardless of who bought them. So every time you see that label, Ludivine has made the wine, but someone else have done the aloe verge, so that could be, they're usually one of the Negos house in Burgundy, and then either the Negos house under their own name, or they can also sell it to private clients. And even private people can also be at the auction now, if you're a group of friends, you can be together, we have some analogy club as well. We have some companies as well, they register and they be by themselves, and then they are helped to find a Negosion here in Burgundy, because the rule number one is that it has to be aged and bottled here in Burgundy. Nobody can take a barrel under arms and go to Bordeaux, or champagne. I just mentioned Bordeaux with flight, okay? I was my year, I said Bordeaux. I'm very good. I love Bordeaux. I do assume. But that's the point as well to help people and to help the leaders and the clients to leave this experience about getting a barrel here, up to the end, helping them in the choice of the aloe verge, and the people, or the wine maker, they love the wine and the styles as well. So it's really important to go up to the end of the process for us. We just keep a little part of the production, because at the end of the year, every employee of the hospital have bottled. Hello, listeners. Two very quick things before we go back to our conversation. This podcast series is part of a larger, reneglobal research project, and we have a whole series of articles and publications in the pipeline. So don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter at rene.gl to be the first to read them, output all the links in the show notes. And if you like what you've heard so far, please do subscribe to the Auremi Podcast channel on any of the platforms that you are listening this episode on and give us a good rating. It really helps. The more subscriber we have, the more resources we have to continue our exploration. We're back to the episode now. So we are in Bergen to see, of course, I'm sure over the next two days we're going to talk a lot about price and the prices of wine and the impact it can have on the region and reputation and everything. When I was growing up in Bergen D, there was a saying that the people, even in Bergen D, as you mentioned, need to get a bit confused about how the your spissails work. And when I was growing up, people thought that depending on the result that their spissails had, it was actually impacting the price of the Nigos. So the price of the Nigos Young will buy the bulk wine from the producer. It was kind of related in the past. It's not anymore today, but your job, one of the uniqueness of that, and we've talked about it when we prepped is like, your job is to sell those wines as expensive as possible, but that has also an impact on Bergen D, because everyone talks about the results of those spissable themselves. And everyone takes it as an example of look at how Bergen D is expensive today. How do you deal with that both of you? No, that's what it's complicated for me. For example, some of the negation or winemakers, they say to me, "Oh no, it's too expensive. No, all the burgundy wines actually, but the auspices are part of the problem." And I say, "Okay, but I need money for the hospital." And we are a wine auction, but we are also a charity auction. And we try to make the people understand the difference. And yes, they can go higher compared with the same wine, because it's for charity, because the money goes to the hospital. But it's complicated because over big buyers or negation, they don't see the same. But it's true that it does influence. It gives sort of tendency in terms of worldwide wine market, because if things go bad, probably that the auction won't be as good as it could have been or it used to be. So I think we could suffer or push in any direction, depending on all the world situation. We are often asked a couple of days before the auction. What do you think about the auction tomorrow? It says, "I don't have a clue. I don't have any idea. I know I can share how people loved the wine, how they were tasted, the all the communication we've made with or the impact of the quality of the vintage that we can have. But I don't have a clue of how it will go in terms of money. We have the change. We have the geopolitical things. We have some taxes. We have the events. We have the business, the current business as well. So it's something impossible to to forecast. It's it's worth than the material, the weather cast forecast. So that is true. It's true that in collective conscience or thoughts, this auction also gives a sort of direction about the business. Because if the planet is okay and if the wine and if the people are okay with the fact of paying a lot of money for the wines, for our charity, basically it means that the world goes well. So things can be good for the business as well. But our job is a part of schizophrenic things. Because on the right hand side, we want to earn as much money as possible because we know what it is made for, charity, hospital, invests and whole things. But on the other hand, we can even not afford the one that we make ourselves. But also the thing is that if you think about it, it's a lot of money. It sounds like a lot of money for the very big barrels. Let's talk about the concrete. But if you divide it with the number of bottles you can have per barrel, it's still less expensive than some very, very, very famous other estate in Burgundy. And the money goes to the hospital. So it's a good point to mention. And the other point is that at least every third Sunday of November, you don't need to be on any short list or any allocation, please them list, to be able to get very great wines. You just have to register and to beat for a barrel to try to get some very great wines. You're not on the street. And you have a street on the street on the bus. Hi, listeners, me again. So this conversation was recorded live in July 2025. I have from the King's Chamber in the Ospeedde Boon. And our microphone, unfortunately, didn't pick all the great questions that audience asked that day. So I really recorded them and I will be asking on their behalf. And the first one we had was in France, they are strict rules about advertising and obviously a charity also has strict rules in how they can use their money. So is there any impact of that on you? Not really. I think in Burgundy and all the wine lovers, they understand that we it's a special moment, you know, the wine auction. Everybody is here. Every Burgundy lover, wine lovers are in Burgundy. And so there is a flexibility for the hospital to advertise about the wine auction, you know. But sometimes, yes, people say, "Oh, you are an hospital, but you sell wines." It's complicated. But the doctors of the Ospeedde Boons, they want to be at the first row, you know, during the auction to show to everybody it's an hospital. It's not a public event or, you know, it's ready for the hospital. So it's sometimes complicated for us. But we make, I always say, we make good wines for pleasure. It's for special moments, you know. It's not for usual, yes, construction. It's true that the item of regulating is something very important because we have this care mission. And alcohol is a very current subject in France, in Burgundy as well. But it's a matter of also explaining as well how we can promote wines and why in the very final and of the things. And we have our own addictive services inside the hospital. And we share a lot with the nurses and with the addictive service. Addiction service. Sorry. What addictive means like you have a service to get people addicted and addiction is that this is my service. This is my. And I will do the addiction one. But we share a lot with Lawrence. This is the name of the head of the service. They had women holding this service. And we have also, we take care of the also the when we when we promote when we have all our speech. We we always mention to be reasonable in terms of consumption. We have some very not already made but secure. Like I do as well. Like guidelines. It's true. Everybody knows that we we need a lot of money and we need a lot of wines to get drunk with hospitable wines. And it's so that's in this fact it may it could be considered like not something very dangerous because it it targets only a small amount of people. But it still does. Yeah. And and this target and these people and even some wine makers making great wines can easily go down and with this danger of alcohol. So we still have our role to prevent the risk of alcohol and to explain again and again how we can still get some pleasure in terms of having wine but still be reasonable with it. Can you give us some numbers like the hospital budget? Yeah. Yeah. So the hospital is it's around 1000 beds and the budget no bone, Arnell dukes and Miss Angerge. Half of the these beds are retirement houses. We have a lot of old people in the source of Côte d'Or and and the budget of the hospital is around 150 million euros with the vineyards parts. because the Vignan pass, it's the budget. It depends, actually, it depends of the results of the auction. But it's the same budget for me, the hotel duo and the two Vignards. And it's around 30 million Euro. So for example, that helped have a surgery service in bone. So that wouldn't have been possible to keep surgery in bone. They will probably have a hospital, but more like education. Again, everything that's targeted to older age, but they wouldn't be able to have to be independent from Dijon, for example, and to be also able to give that level of care to the community. In percentages, the sale of the hospital, how many percent of the sale goes back to run the Vignan in the one way, compared to how many percent end up in the check. Yeah, the figures. It depends on that. Well, on average, that. About two-third goes to charity and one-third. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely, yeah. The on average is between 7 and 10 percent, depending on the year. And also, depending on the expense that we decide to make and invest at the winery. But actually, the winery is already. It's just. it's not down to on either. It's out of the center. But actually, the winery was built 30 years ago. And it's still very modern. It was well-thought from the very beginning. So I didn't have. And I still don't have a lot of investment to make in terms of the process itself. And also, because we still hand harvest, we still make the wines. I'm going to talk about that later. But we still make the wine with a sort of very traditional way and process. So, of course, we can. We improve. We have some improvement. And we have some modernity arriving. But it's something that we can try to fix in advance. Actually, we are quite a good rentability. Not in here. No, no, yeah, yeah, really. Thank you. Thanks. What's the percentage of Yovina that's farmed in an organic way? Thank you, Claude, for mentioning, because it's 100 percent. 100 percent, that's nice. Yeah. We decided to start our conversion with the whole lot, with the whole vineyards. And also, because I previously mentioned the team. And this is also thanks to them, because they were all absolutely ready to. Let's say, play the game. And they were with me. I hate saying behind me. They were by my side. And it's thanks to them, because they were probably even ready before me. But you start to be organic, right? We really stopped chemicals in '17. And so you mean? Yeah. But the time for my brain and I to be fixed, it took a bit of time. And also, because by this time, we had to improve their equipment. We talked about the equipment in the vineyards. That was also the key. If we had some drawers and wiremaker in the room, they would probably know what I'm talking about. But it's a thing to decide. It's another to make. And sometimes it takes time. And also in my mind, because working for a hospital, you know, it's something to have antibiotics or just cream and local cream. And sometimes you trust a bit more in chemicals. So that's a neutral. The same thing, the same thing, two with thousand organ. Yes, thank you. With 23 critical traits, like also different people that come from a different background, different generation. But actually, the oldest people of the team, they were very enthusiastic about that. Because it was new for them and they considered that they could learn and they wanted to learn and they wanted to understand. So it wasn't more difficult with the oldest one than with the youngest. And probably a little bit more difficult with the very young ones, because they thought they knew already and they didn't want to learn anything about anyone. How independent are you from the negotiations that might buy the pests during the cells like, can you do whatever you want in the cellar or do people are like, oh, I would like you to try a whole bunch for this year or like, do you have any pressure like that? No, not at all. Okay, I'd come to you. Do you do whatever you want? Okay. But in reality, we absolutely love sharing with them what we do and also welcoming other whi-makers during the harvest time. Because they love coming, but we also love when they come because we have these times that we all need when we make wine. We are, it's better not to be alone when we make wine. It's better to have exterior opinions and feelings about the way it happens outside of the winery. So it's, they don't, they are not involved in the process, but they want to know afterwards what was done to understand and to be able as well to talk about the wines because they will be the one in charge of them. It's like, I gave the babies and they will have teenagers. They will have to transform them up to adult. They need some kids. And then we also play the game up to the end. It means that these wines have been aged in French oak and 100% new oak because if you understand what I said, now that I'm now, at this period of the year, the sellers are empty. So I need to buy some new barrels to welcome the next vintage because they came and pick up the barrels. So I don't have, except the one that I kept for our reserve. I don't have any, any barrels. I would have loved being the register managing to take some one year old barrel from some estates, but it's too risky. It's something that we don't really want to play with. And I don't want either because if they have problems on their barrels and that we can express a little bit of VA or Bret-Anomise or whatever you see, these were wonderful words for wine makers that we love. And when we talk about 100,000 euros for a barrel, nobody wants to run any risk. The thing is, we worked hard with the barrel makers to ask them to provide us great forest origins and in terms of heating as well, in terms of toasting, in terms of adaptation to the vintage that we're going to have. So we order our barrels at late. We are in July and I still don't have ordered any single barrels so far. And so they hate me. They absolutely hate me. I can see South African-American like, oh, you can order barrels last minute. When you do order them, tea is it? It's only 5 kilometers far from here. Sorry. It's a bit of a luck with me. But even a few decades back, people looked at the auction sale as a charity sale with wine. Wine was kind of an accessory. And now the reputation of the estate is such that people are traveling from all over the world to access well-priced burgundy. What's your take on that? Thank you so much. But it's true that it was, it's a treasure. This estate is a treasure. It's something we absolutely want to take care about. Nothing is really perfect. I think we all do love someone knowing that this person is not perfect, but we do love it. Her or him. And I think that can be the same for the wines. We can accept any wines not to be perfect, but we can also accept the fact of loving it. And as wine makers, because I know that there are some in the room, the game is to do our best for a lot of people to love the wines. And also to discuss and to explain to those who wouldn't like them the way we worked and probably to take from them the way to make it better next time. And never to be close to any suggestion or any criticism or any detail that we can try and keep. And one day my little daughter, she said, "Ah, mum, I cannot see the smile in your eyes anymore." And my wines would have probably become stronger or more extracted if I wouldn't have paid attention to what she told me. And the way we are as well is really important in the way we make the wines. And do you see a lot of differences in your wines when they age because of course they are going to age in different environments? Oh yes, I do. I am really pleased because I am often invited to go at Negotiant places and to taste the wine that I made and that they are aging. So generally, just before bottling, they asked me to come and taste. So it's really amazing to see how different that can be from one place to another one. But it's also very linked to the human being. I don't know if I can tell you about this story because it's a bit personal, but I want to share. When I first take these jobs, it was difficult for me to convince my team to follow me, to be by my side, just because I was a woman and because I was young. And I had to follow a trainee and to try to be a better manager. I hate this word, but let's say manager. And when I was with this guy and he told me, well, you should probably try these and these and I said, it sounds impossible because I am the way I am. This is my nature. And he said, no, this is not your nature. Being natural is not what you mentioned. It's natural that you have brown hair. It is natural that you have blue eyes. It is natural that you have that tall, but what you are is completely linked to your environment. And to your youngness, your parents, your education, the environment inside you where you lived. So you can pay attention to your environment and you can change who you are. And it's amazing how wine can illustrate because they all come from my cellar, myself, my wine making and they can be transformed depending on their environment, people, education, aging, to very different individual situations. So it's the thing of having the same parents, but being people very different from each other. And we all have probably sisters and brothers or kids and we can obviously see how people or how two people can be different having the same parents by the end. So it's important to mention that they can be very, very different. Thank you for listening to Rene Live's sessions. A podcast series produced by Rene Global, a research organisation dedicated to the future of fine wine. Rene Global helps wineries, distributors and retailers to understand how the world is changing and how they create risks to be managed and opportunities to be seized. What risks, what opportunities, well be sure to visit our website Rene.Global. Subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on social media so you don't miss any of our reports, events and analysis. Until next time, cheers. [Music]