Inside the Cutthroat World of Prep School Recruiting

Hello, I'm Scott Saashtnik and I'm Evan Novibulium and this is the application agrivation sports business podcast thus for the cast Now now Evan let's not start negative. There's affirmation. There's a whole lot of good things we can do But we are welcoming Brad D. Arco of D. Arco associates and now Brad the I don't know if you listen to the show But I do from time to time Excuse me bring in my son we talk about Where he is what he's doing I refer to him as my focus group of one When in reality I talk about him and his pals and all what's going on both in sports and tech and youth sports So Brad it was a big week last week where Hockey players in particular who were looking to go to prep schools Found out sort of okay this school wants you and then everything shakes out as that application deadline came in You are an expert in this field Can you please succinctly sum up the world in which I find myself Yeah, so for me I do it's not just for hockey my background isn't hockey but do it for for all athletes Yeah, I always tell people that's like that the prep school world and the prep school admission process is a really unique entity that that sometimes I think it's I think people conflate it or compare it to like how college athletics works when in reality it's Completely different right and the biggest difference often times is like In college athletics college coaches are you know their full-time coaches they have the ability to go out and recruit You know individual players and oftentimes they have the freedom from their schools to say like hey if this is a student who you want and You know here she meets the minimum athletic requirements right like at the division one level they meet the NCAA clearinghouse You can commit them to a spot and all likelihood Lee as an admission office are going to admit them the prep school process doesn't work like that at all And so it is a really different process in terms of how Let we go through it and so when I'm you know my background why what you wasn't Unsleep and coach and and plates for it's I spent 20 years as a director of admission in boarding schools And so really helping families understand how that process works and and really what the role of the admission office is in that But it's perplexing like you know I at this time of the year the frustration I hear is oftentimes not just from From parents, but also from coaches right we're like hey, I've got this great kid I've done everything I tend to to try to get him or her into the school and ultimately like my hands are tied whether it's around the admission decision Not the admission office is gonna make for financial aid decisions or whatever Yeah, well, what are the first things you said to me? What's what surprised me is your first interaction with a school is not through the coach You said I lead through the admissions office that you better come with the academics They need students these prep schools need students that will then go on to graduate and matriculate at prestigious universities Yeah, yeah, I think I think oftentimes when people don't recognize is like the value of athletics programs in prep schools and what that represents to the school is really different than it is at the college level Right at the college level winning games and winning championships There's a return on that for the school right like there's value in that for the school at the prep school level The coaches want to win and it's a great experience for kids to win championships, but as the school as a whole No one really knows who wins like so that's not really what what their thought process is and so The the lens through which they make decisions is really the idea of if we look at the students academic profile What type of college options might we project you know that having now if the coach tells us in addition to that They're strong enough athlete that back in playing to their college options Great, this is a student. We're gonna be interested in but it's not like college hockey or college athletics where a coach can go in there and say If we bring this kid in we're gonna win four or five more games next year And that's gonna get us a league championship and get us into the national tournament and that that has an inherent value to the school and prep schools It's it's really really different Brad, how much do you see this potentially changing? It's Scott and I in an episode last week or two weeks ago Started talking about high school basketball programs that are nationally recognized names right okay Academy being one of them right They turn out NBA stars and as a result a lot of NBA fans know okay Academy In the hockey world there are prep schools that have a name right there is a marketing value I think associated to Shadick St. Mary's for example or or or or or or what not as Basically all of college sports gets more commercialized as youth sports gets more commercialized Do you see this lever flipping at some point where where some schools say oh there's maybe a bigger commercial marketing opportunity In having good sports and recruiting good athletes and maybe bending admission rules a little bit to keep this program One of the best high school prep school Hockey programs in the country 100% the challenge with boys hockey is the recruiting pass So like again, I work with all athletes, but if you looked at prep schools right now like To your point about oh kill like Brewster Academy New Hampshire is one of the best basketball programs in the country Like they're they're pumping like Hodgkin's school in Connecticut like schools they there Those schools are pushing up big time that New England prep school soccer Is arguably one of the best soccer leagues in the country right like my son who's a who's a prep school soccer player His soccer team has seven division one players on it this year, right? The challenge with boys hockey in particular over the last couple of years in terms of like the lens through which prep schools view it is It's become much harder for schools to forget the college outcome of it So like what's been really interesting? So when I went to boarding school in the late 90s Boys prep hockey was the biggest thing going in the schools, right like I graduated You know nine of I graduated with a class of nine off my varsity hockey team All of us went directly to play college hockey six of us went to play division one college Brad right now you're just getting me mad Brad now you're just getting me angry that the path is too so much Here's the point though right like So back then like for prep schools the value of boys prep hockey was like hey as I go back to it Generates tremendous college placement for us like this makes a a ton of sense the challenge with boys prep hockey right now has been the and it's a no fault to the prep schools right is College hockey has changed so much. Yeah in the way they want to recruit boys It's made this lens a little bit different through which it's forced prep schools to make decisions, right? But athletics as a whole as a prep school like the biggest driver You know having been a director of admission in prep schools. I can tell you that like a Huge driver of their applicant pools broadly both on the boys and girls side is athletics and they are acutely aware of that and if you go visit these campuses you can see The amount money they're investing in their athletics programs is massive, right? their expectation on that is It's going to help us generate and create a college list That's going to continue to make us more attractive to you know other applicants who are going to be athletes and non athletes What I hope families understand is like look that's the lens through which these admission decisions are going to be made And so when I am presenting a candidate really is helping a school understand that if you look at this student's profile academically and athletically these are some of the potential outcomes here She might have and this is why it's going to make sense for you to admit and I really enroll the student So one other question for that It sounds like and I've written a lot about college recruiting I went to Princeton so I know Ivy League recruiting quite well where he was a star on the winless sprint football team By the way, I think a lot of Ivy League schools kind of pretend there's no athletic scholarships But as I'm sure you know, there's a lot of different mechanisms by which these schools still get athletes in Athletics for a lot of schools. I imagine this is true at the prep level also is just a tremendous diversity driver For student bodies as a whole and I guess I'm surprised that that there wouldn't be more deference to coaches At prep schools given the fact that athletics can be such a window to such a front porch diversify your certain body It's well again to your point. It's why Boys prep soccer and boys prep basketball now are so so good I can tell you that like when I Well, I've worked in several schools. I worked at Northwood school in in Lake Blossom right? I was the director of admission there you mentioned Shadok St. Mary's Northwood just beat Shadok in their league championship. So a place that has a hockey program like that. We added a soccer program there, which was now one of the top soccer programs in the country. And the reason we did it was to diversify our student body, but also to strengthen our college placement, right? Because we were going to generate it. So it's really interesting that, like, you know, as I said, the sports, if you look at prep schools, the lens through which they're making all of their decisions are that. So like, you know, diversity, which has become a factor in beneficial at times in the college placement process. And not just, you know, racially or ethnically like geographic diversity, right? So when schools realized that, you know, call it, it was definitely when I was working in boarding schools, I think the turn was probably in the early 2000s, right? I started working in boarding schools in 2004. All of a sudden, like, prep school soccer exploded, right? Like, and now prep soccer is unbelievable. And again, like, if it, you know, it doesn't get enough credit probably, but like the, the, the double A top New England prep basketball programs out there are absolutely competing with O'Kill and, you know, places like that. So like, you know, prep hockey holds a really historic place and is still a phenomenal leak. The things that have changed with it are, you know, in some ways, the college, the board, you know, we could go into like what prep hockey like college hockey recruiting looks like. But that juke saw puzzle on the high, but that would make it cry on air. So let's not do that. Yeah, you should have played soccer. That's my takeaway. So far, yeah, he did when he was little. So the Jackson should have played soccer. You want to know, you want to laugh, Brad? This, this gives you a little insight. And you of course have, have met my son. But, yeah, Jackson, when he was, I don't know, six or whatever, when we were trying to pick a sport, I'd say, well, do you want to play soccer, Jackson? And he says to me, do I get to knock people down? I said, well, not really, he said that I don't want to play that. That's who he is. I have, I have two kids, neither of them play hockey. Yeah. So like I'm marked at, I'm marked at mountain. Yeah, I've spent my life doing it. Obviously. And for me, as I say, like in my, with my clients who the student athletes, like, um, with majority of them, are hockey players, for sure. Um, so I spent my, my life in my career doing it. And I coach prep hockey and have been involved in it. Um, but yeah, it's a really, really interesting time in, in, in boys hockey in general. Um, and that filters down into prep schools. And that's why when I tell people like, I guess not to sort of, you know, but it's in part why I'm here, right? Talk about what it is I do. Helping families really understand that like, the lens through which these prep schools are going to make these admission decisions is so different because of what their expectation is on a return, right? It's not like college hockey where like, it's about just winning games, right? Like, and so I used to, I do this all the time when I go out and talk to people and, and you know, the New England Prep School Championships just happened, AVE on one again. And they've got a great program. But, you know, by next October, I'll go out and ask people like, who won New England Prep School hockey like no one knows, right? Like what they know is like, these are great schools and these are great programs. And I often ask people like, well, why is what, like what makes that a great program or what makes that a great school? And the answer will always be look at where their kids are going, right? It's never their win loss record or how many championships they're wanting. It's like, look at where their kids are going. And so you brought up Shodak, like, you know, Shodak's a great example of like, they've got a great hockey program and I know for them, it's a little bit different, like they value winning a USA hockey national championship. For them, there's value. And it's a little bit of a unique model. But ultimately, the, the, what makes Shodak St. Mary's so great is you ask people why they're great. And it's look at where, look at the players who have come out of it. And for them, it's the difference of like, they're going to tell you Sydney Prozki, right? Or for Matt, when Celebrini versus, but it's the same idea. Like, it's all outcome. It's, it's so outcome based. It's not, you know, results or wins are, are not, it's not the ones which the sig or value. Evan, I know you were watching during last year's USA hockey championships with Jackson and the net for the fourth, three overtime victory over Shodak St. Mary's. Yeah. Of course, they were not expecting to lose that game, my friend. Let me tell you this. Right. Let me ask you for those who don't know the world, the prep school world. Even I had a little piece of sticker shock. What did, yeah, what did I mean? These schools are 75 to 80 plus thousand dollars. Yeah, we're talking elite college level two ishians. Do they prioritize folks who can pay full freight? What does that, does that get you a better chance of admission? Yeah. So not, I mean, not unlike college, right? Where even in the college admission process and the college admission world right now, there's very few schools that are, that are, you know, need blind, right? In the admission process, that's very true in Amprep school admissions as well, right? Like, you know, the term they use is that their, their admission decisions are need aware, meaning if you're applying for financial aid, that can factor into the admission decision, meaning like every year, all of these schools are going to have students who academically are admissible. The school sees them, the student is potentially adding value to the community, but for one reason or another, they're unable to meet the need of, of those students, right? And that happens at the college level. Again, I go back to when I'm talking to a family, you know, from an athletic standpoint, the schools are business, whether it's high school or college, like that's the reality of it. They're, you know, you mentioned Princeton, Princeton's a really successful, I mean, arguably the most successful nonprofit business in this country, right? But it's a business. And at the prep school level, they looked at it the same way of like, what is the return on investment we're going to get for that financial aid month? And for them, the potential return on investment goes back to college placement, right? Like if we're going to invest money in this kid and he's going to get into Princeton, that's great return on our investment. The challenge with boys hockey now has become, well, if we make a significant investment in him and it could potentially be three to four years from when this student arrives here, even as a, you know, he met a writer as a 10th grader play here for three years, you three years of junior hockey, then go to play college hockey. That has, you know, that it's made the formula for boys hockey more challenging for prep schools to answer that question. So that's just a real. Yeah. It seems clear that obviously these schools care a lot about what school, what colleges their students going to do. Are they also keeping track of salary of students in the in the real world after they become professionals? When I was at Princeton, one thing that I always thought was so funny, all the engineering departments would keep track of the average salary of recent graduates. And the operations, resorts and finance engineering department had both Chris Young and Will Venables. They were both playing in Major League Baseball at the time. And the average salary from the Orphe majors was like, just those two guys who were making millions of dollars each had skewed the entire thing for the, for like, not really working in engineering, not really engineering at all. But I am curious because people like Maclin, Celebrini and, and, and Cindy Crosby are making a lot of money and will make so much more money than basically anyone else who graduates from any of these prep schools in any other field. And I'm curious if that weighs in on, on statistics that matter for any of these schools. So I think, you know, one, I talked about this like obviously, not just because what I do professionally, but like I'm a huge believer in the boarding school experience, right? And the prep school experience and what it provides to kids. And I say that not just having worked at like both of my, both my children are in boarding schools. And so some of the statistics like I can tell you some of the things they do know which are true are like the like four year graduation rates of boarding school graduates, right? tend to be statistically way higher than students who are coming from, you know, public schools or even private day schools. The rate at which, you know, a boarding school graduate is the amount of times they're going to change majors, right? tend to be significantly lower. And success in the first year of college, of boarding school students tends to be much higher. And the things they'll point to right is like because of the resources these schools have, students are exposed to a lot more, right? The breadth and depth of their, their academic offerings and their co-curricular offerings is huge. So students oftentimes are coming out of high school with maybe a better understanding of like, hey, I've been exposed to a lot in boring school. So I actually may have a better idea of what it is I want to study, right? Excuse me, and I've also had some experience being away from home, some experience being independent. I've lived in a dorm. So the likelihood of me having success in transitioning to college is going to be higher. So I saw that in my freshman year just seeing who felt like they were better acclimated to this intense school living independently lifestyle. 100%. Yeah, so for them it's you know, I think what like prep schools really do focus on is that like the success rate in the transition to college, which like I would argue is you know, you can go through and there's always debates nowadays with all of the different educational paths for college like which ones are going to create the best doors and you know, there's phenomenal public schools where kids are getting into great colleges and great private day schools and you know, so all of that is true. You know, I believe all of that is true of boarding school, but I think it is hard to argue that like the preparedness for kids to be able to find success coming out of a boarding school environment is really different and also to your point of like even in a really good private school or public school in your area, boarding schools are bringing in kids from all over the country and all over the world and so the exposure to that kind of diversity and living with kids and I think I'd have a really you know, different, you know, different time of life is really different. The other thing I say to people all the time is when they can slate prep schools and colleges is that colleges, you know, my daughter's going off to college and so like I'm feeling this now, even though I don't feel like this is true, but college is for adults, you know, just inherently so boarding schools are very aware of the fact and how they make their admission decisions but also how they structure their schools that like they're dealing with adolescents and like that's a really different time and kids lives, right? And so how they structure things is really different. Let's keep in mind the college hockey person now you're coming as a freshman you're 25, you're a father of three. It's a whole different experience. I Brad, let's get you out on this. I want to marry a little. I got one of the questions. I'll jump in. Let's go. Okay. So I'm curious how much Brad NIL opportunities have crept into your job? We are so similar. I was going to talk about the commercialization now. Is it ready for the commercialization? If I was going to, if I was going to advise him, I'm going to marry my personal and my professional now, having been through this process alongside you, Brad, I would go right to the athletic directors and the school headmasters, whatever it is and say, hey, we can better commercialize the athletic departments. I would look at various opportunities. So it hasn't white yet, right? But I think it's coming. And I think it's it seems inevitable, right? Like it just seems inevitable that it is going to occur. I think that the challenge with with prep schools in doing it is like, look, when I went to boarding school, which sounds crazy now, I played three sports. I capped in three varsity teams in my prep school. I was recruited to college to play both. Like, and I played soccer hockey and lacrosse, right? Like, I did those things. The reality of that is boarding schools have recognized that. Like, if we if we continue to push that model, it's going to negatively impact our college placement, right? So now like kids are coming in and there's fall hockey and winter hockey. My son, they play, you've got a club soccer team. They're going to play on in the spring. So all of these things have changed and involved. The challenge with with boarding schools in some ways is like, you still have to be attractive to non athletes. And you've got to provide programming for the kid who wants to come in and has never played soccer and wants to play third soccer, right? So schools are really trying to balance this right now and figure it out. Like, how are we serving both of these things in the same community? But I think it's inevitable that, you know, one, I think there's there. You're absolutely right, Scott. Like, there's revenue for these schools to be made at now and in doing it, some figuring out some commercial partnerships. And like, I can't imagine that in my world, I'm in a three to five years away from parents talking to me, not just about, hey, where is the place where you can help get my son or daughter admitted and can ultimately help them find the best academic and athletic opportunity. But is there a school that, beyond giving us financial aid, is also going to give him or her money to attend there? Like, and that's, you know, when I worked in boarding schools, that would have seemed like an impossibility when I started in boarding schools, get a 20 some odd years ago. And now I can't imagine that that's not, you know, I'm not having those conversations now. I think it's unlikely I'm going to have them in the next admission cycle. I can't imagine I'm not having them in in three to five admissions cycles. Once again, screwed by the focus group of oneies too early. Come on. Me too. Yeah, my mom got to do something like, yeah, I would, you know, I might benefit from that too when I change council. All right, Brad. Well, again, I did know a lot of the stuff before you and I, you know, started chatting. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing the knowledge of everybody else. Great. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Brad. That is Brad D'Arco, the lead consultant, director, at D'Arco and associates. Scott Sasha, you can find him on Twitter @Sashnic. I'm on Twitter @Novi_Williams. Show is produced by Justin Greenewald. Thank you to Justin and Sportico Social Media Team, which is Matt Carroll. And Sebastian would like you to know that you can follow the show @Sportacas, which is the hub of the Sportico Media Network.