Inside Royal Ascot with Mike Tindall | Tradition, Style & Racing

[Music] Hello and welcome to the Luxury Dispatch, the podcast that reveals the refined and the rare. People, items and stories that make up the luxury industry. I'm Tom Chamberlain and today we find ourselves not in the studio, but on site at one of the great fixtures of the British Social Calendar, a place where sports, style and tradition come together with remarkable precision. It is of course royal Asket. From morning coats and millenry to the theatre of the track itself Asket represents uniquely British expression of elegance. It is an event where time is kept not only by the races but by ritual dress and a deep sense of heritage. Our thanks to Longine, the sponsor of this episode, an official time partner of royal Asket since 2007. To help us take in the atmosphere, I'm joined by Mike Tindall, former international rugby player and a familiar face at Asket who knows a thing or two about both sport and occasion. Mike, welcome. Hi Tom, how are you? So nice to have you back. It's so nice. It's been so long since I've seen you. It's been on for the last time, right? It was. Well, well. The last time you're on here, we've been on shenanigans and various bits and bobs. I text you numerous times at numerous events checking that what I'm wearing is okay. But a lot of it comes back with no change that. Yes, that's true. You can't do that. Don't make me angry. It's one specific thing you said the other day. I don't do it with cross, I think. Yeah. But you know what? I saw the pictures and you changed. I did. And I really appreciate that. However, I should say the one thing that you absolutely nail and you have for many years, even before we got to know each other, was Royal Asket. I do enjoy Royal Asket. You dress very well for it. You dress up for it. I try to. I try to because as a bloke, there's very few occasions where you get to, you know, really sort of go out there and go and have fun with what you're wearing or, you know, match it to your wife or, you know, girls get a wide scope of what you can do with, with evening wear, cocktail wear, whereas I don't feel that we always get that license. Royal Asket with your morning suits, what you can now do with morning suits, even since Royal Asket brought in the ability to have a navy coat, which wasn't originally allowed. You can play around with that. You can play around with your waistcoat. So obviously, you can pocket watch, pocket square, you know, add little refinements. You can help pins and tell me that. I think it's one of those times where you can actually, you know, enjoy sort of trying to play around with those things. A sense of Sartorial location. Yes. I agree with you. And we'll go through at some point in this episode, the sort of finer and more nuanced points about what makes morning dress, morning dress, why it's set up the way it is, and how you can turn up to Royal Asket early to the Royal enclosure, looking to part. Because actually, you know, you don't have to wear morning suits at Asket. There are other most best buddies. It's when you're in the Royal enclosure, which is the specific thing. And it's the Royal enclosure, which I guess is where so much of the history of Asket lies, and indeed Asket has an awful lot of history associated with it. It does indeed. I mean, we're going back to 1711. And a little ride through the Heath. Yes, exactly. From this box, I can actually see London. I can see the shards sticking up. It's a reminder that at some point we've all got to go home today, which is a shame. But back then, obviously, this was a much wilder space. Yes. It was Queen Anne who thought, you know, actually this is perfect. It was obviously quite a nice open space for me to, I think she described it as, would be the perfect place to allow horses to gallop at full stretch. Exactly. I think it's the term that she used. Yes. And so this became that sort of ground zero for horse racing. Yeah, I mean, they made decisions fast back then because it was amazing. And I decided that in, I don't know, what month it was in early 1711. And by August, they had their first meeting here. Yeah. It's not like now where you have to put 30 years of planning in. They got it done pretty quickly. Yeah. And I think worth, you know, mentioning also that gambling was a big deal back then. And so there was, there was going to be no lack of support for her setting up a whole new venue. Quite nice that she fronted the winnings as well for the first one. Oh, is that right? She brought up 100 guineas for the. And the first race of each year here is the. The Queen Anne stakes. Which has one of my favourite memories because in 2012, Frankl probably had his best performance absolutely annihilated the field by 11 lads. I won that day. You've heard of Frankl. Yeah, I always, but did everybody else? Yeah, but he was unbelievably short favourite. He went again in October for his final race at the Kipco, which was a bit nervous. I think he went off at 2-2-11. I won't tell you how much money on it, but it was quite a lot. And he got stuck in the gate and he was about five legs off when he came out of the gate. And I was sat next to a man who's. Hey, if you're in no racing called David Revers, Tween Hill stud. And he took a very sharp and taken breath of company's mouth. And he was like, what's the matter? And he was like, does the matter? And then afterwards he said, a majority of horses have recovered from that start. And obviously he did. He came on in one by two lads. But the Queen Anne stakes in 2012 is still one of my favourite memories of that race. And I confess to no very little about racing. Because obviously from a satellite view of it, it's fairly straightforward. There's a start, there's a finish, you can bet on which horse you want to win. But the nuance and the politics and the deep knowledge that people have of the sport implies that my sense of it being not much more than a start and a finish is pretty innate. And so, do you love racing? Is it something that you're really into? I love the occasion. I do like racing. But again, like you, I'm not obsessed. And the ability to remember horses and remember when they won't. Only horse people seem to be able to do that. It's phenomenal how they can retain information about what year, which horse, which race, what day. I mean, I couldn't list the races each day. I can know, I can just about barely remember everything. Mainly because they've all blown into one. It's a lot of fun. But I think I enjoy the whole package. I enjoy getting to know the jockies because then you understand a bit more about what they're thinking whilst they're racing. And you can ask them questions that you would have asked as a sportsman of yourself. I'll ask you the same thing about what in scenarios, why do you do that, why do you do that, or what you try to do, what you're looking for. And so that increases your knowledge and your actually your love more of the game. But then there's a whole different side in terms of the breeding side of it. And everything else that I wouldn't even be able to polish the service, let's scratch it. But just to come here every year and the feature race of everyone, obviously, the gold cup is the feature race. It's funny. It started, I think the gold cup was first introduced in 1807. And there has been the signature race all the way through. And to this day, the late queen is the only monarch to have ever handed herself the prize. She won the Estimate in 2013, I think it was. But yeah, and that's a long distance. So it was set up to be a test along this. But now we talk a lot about the sprinters and the, you know, the Miles. And not quite more that those long, those long distances he wants. But yeah, it's just got so much history. It's amazing. In comparison to all, you know, you go to Cheltenham and you know, you're, you're clearly enjoying in the ecosystem. What makes ask it so special? I do think it's that connection with the Royal family. You look at how many royals from around the world have actually put horses in and won. Obviously a lot from the, the UAE, but it just brings everyone out. Cheltenham is unbelievable. It's sort of the king of, you know, along with hatred, king of the jumps. But it's all about, you know, what it's more tweed. It's all, all more about the connection with the rural countryside. The side of it, whereas this sort of crosses every boundary. You've got the people who from Ireland have just grown up and been riding horses and just wanted to, want to come over and experience it all the way up to, you know, Nability, famous movie stars, rock stars. You know, it, it, it pulls everyone in. And I think that's the unique thing about what Royal Asuka is. [BLANK_AUDIO] there is something there for everyone, obviously. They've modernised over recent years, whether they like it or not. So, yes, you're in Royal Ecosia, you have a strict dress code, but they've sort of let it ease outside to try and make it more appealing for people just to come on the day, which is scandalous. Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with it, but we need to keep the audience growing. I think people love dressing days out. So, I think making it available for those who want to dress up, you go out there and you do your thing. But do you think having this sort of, I mean, aesthetically antiquated dress code is what is a big part of the draw? But yes, and it has to stay. It has to stay that way. It has to be that British history that we've, you know, we can talk about Bob Rommel and what he did around clothing and everything like that till the count is going on. And that is the history that we are trying to continue and should honour and that's part of it. It goes with the role, you know, the role procession down the course, which I think 1825, that started. So, George IV. IV, I think, yeah, yeah. Because George IV was useless. And he benefited from the fact that, obviously, his father, George III was seen as mad and reclusive and all these sorts of things. But he was king for a very long time. George wasn't actually king for long and his reign was pretty rubbish. He didn't, you know, he didn't do much of anything notable except he was incredibly flamboyant. And ceremony was a big deal for him. And so, instituting this idea of kind of riding out from Windsor Castle. Was he what Black How There Was Based Old? I did the Prince Regent. Yes, that's the deck of rock. So Hugh Laurie, yes, that's the deck of rock. And I mean, pretty accurate to a lot of extent. Oh, do you know you did know him? Hey, just stories. I read books. I read books. And I've come up with it. But also, we love Hugh Laurie. And so, but it was him who decided that him and his entourage would ride out from Windsor Castle and do this sort of large parade and have people wave and say, he wasn't that stupid. He came up with probably the. Oh, he knew how to create. Yeah, yeah. And I think. And I think now that is it's still a standalone feature of what happens to Royal Island. It is amazing. Look, I have to say it is extraordinary. And obviously, you've taken part. I have. I find it a little bit awkward. It's obviously a great honor to be in there. You've been in the garage with the King, but at the same time, it's. I don't like sort of being out there, but. But there are certain things. You've got to put your own awkward feel around it. And what I do love is seeing all the kids of the local schools as you're riding through are all allowed out to wave their flags. Just tell me through that bit because it's not. No longer is the case that you take off from Windsor Castle. No. There's a half and half, of course you do. Yeah, how does it work? Yeah, so you jump in cars and you drive. But they do that very well. So the fleet of cars that they use are very old, historical, good old-fashioned sort of cars. State cars. State cars is the right word. And they take you to the edge of the Downey Long Walk and then to the edge of the Great Park. And then you jump in and it's about a 20-minute carriage ride from start to finish. But in the landows with the Wickers. Yeah, I mean, the horses, the green coats. His green coats. Yeah, green coats. And they've got history as well. We'll talk about that. The green coats and how they control the horses. You know, you can sort of. You know, as are as great as well because you'll look at all of them. You can see which horse is going to be a nightmare for them and everything else. And she always keeps an eye on it. But to go then to set off and you go past. I don't know how many schools you go past, it seems to be a load. And they always let the children out and wave their. wave their British flags and I'm thinking that's great. In the world, especially now, he's just to allow you to be British and actually celebrate it. Yeah. And as long as it's a nice day, well, if it's too hot, it's a bit of an nightmare. The sweat is. But there's a bit of a change. I'm going. Yeah, don't take the hat off as it's like a cool water drop sound. But then you turn onto the track and then you down the middle of the course. And that's a bit of a buzzer when you get into it, when you come into the stadium and the anthem starts. That's quite special. But you are somebody who's been out in front of large audiences in the past. So it's. But it's never on like show. You know what I mean? You are officially on show. Yes, I guess. That's sort of. It's fine if you're doing sport and they're there to watch. And that's. she's not that really thinking about it. Yeah. You're very aware when you just sat there and you're on show. Well, the land does. You know, they were chosen because they were the easiest. Although they were the best sort of eyes on Royals form of transportation. So people can easily see into them. Which is why they were chosen. And because there's a lot of carriages in which you can't see at all. So if you think about the social opening of Parliament. There's all close stuff at the end, exactly. There you go. You mentioned the green cuts. Also known as 'Yoman Prickers', initially. They were. So basically crowd control, right? That was nice before time, you know. Yes, exactly. So 'Yoman Guards' were always going to be used whenever a role is present. They need people to sort of get other people out the way. Clear space. So they would use these sort of sticks that have sort of pricks on them. And so that's why they were called 'Yoman Prickers'. And she decided that she wanted to dress them up. And so ordered a whole load of this. It's not. Is it rumored that it's curtains from Windsor? There's two stories. One is that it was ordered. They were dressed up with all their new delivery and then the surplus material got made into curtains. Okay. And there's also the story that they just sort of ripped down the whole load of curtains and turned them into uniforms. And the more I think about it, the more I think it's the former. But I maybe go walk around with Carlson and see if we can find the. There is. So I'm a financial failure. Yeah, yeah. It's sort of a breakout of part of this podcast. And so. I mean, so what's fun for Asuka for me is that people can still come in and seal that history kind of, not only evolving, but I guess sustaining itself through great entertainment grids, ceremony and spectacle. Yeah, I completely agree. I think it is one of the highlights of our year. We love coming. We always bring friends every Tuesday. Every Tuesday is like our day. So we just come and enjoy the day with friends and then we normally come back Wednesday Thursday and every now and again another day. But yeah, I agree, please. Just one of those days where you can completely throw yourself. And then the sing song at the end of the day as well at the back on the bandstand is just something that they brought in and added. Do you join in that? But I think, yeah, you just go and stand at the back and you watch and you join in. You just put a little hand in the hope and glory and all that. And that's a lot. Yeah. So I think. Okay, so here's my problem. It's that obviously I live in London. Getting out of here is as difficult as getting into here. And so there is. So stay longer. Yes, well, okay, that's a very good argument. I think that's the other way. And I think that's possibly why they've done it. But you can call it just causes everything to go on a little longer. Yeah, stay longer and enjoy. You know, as the cause empties, it's. This place is just amazing and they will go on track and everything else. But it is. It's an incredible place just full of nearly 300 years of history. To some extent, I would say it's what Wimbledon wishes it could do with tennis. But can't because it hasn't got the space and also doesn't really have the. the kind of ceremonial mechanisms that Royal Ascot has. But it's so funny how many people when they sort of. you see them usually kind of April, May, time of the year, are you going to ask it? Yeah. They're really interested. But they want to know. People have to plan early. Yeah, they want to know early. Because if you're getting your dress right and you're looking, you have to get hold of Royal enclosure tickets. You've got to take it seriously. Yeah. And it's a great export too, because someone like Paul Feeck, the movie director, you know, when he moved to London for a long time to film a few movies. And so if with his great wish of whilst here in the UK was that he could come to ask it. Now, I don't know what it necessarily was. You know, he's a great angler file. But, you know, they have their own races they have the Kentucky Derby. But nobody around the world has anything like here. Yeah. And that's why everyone flies in for a bit. It's also white. So white. important that there's always, I think having that close connection with the Royal family and having royal colours running that inspires people from around the world to want to get into horses and you can't underestimate how much that does for the racing industry, in terms of how many people it's bringing in from worldwide who want to be in racing. And what he's done obviously in America with the triple crown and how much they've now lean into it as long with the UAE and Japan and Australia. They've all come off the back of overall ask it. Here, let's talk about gambling or at least let's talk about tips. Tips. What? How do you. Okay, so I once won here at ask it. I'm very proud to say I bet on the King's horse. And that is. Oh, does it here, when he won? That first. It was a sad year because it was the first year after Queen Elizabeth had passed. And so the King's. I mean, is it the monarch's horse that the colours themselves? Does it belong to the monarch or. Yes, the royal colours. And so he basically. Take an ownership of that. So Queen Elizabeth second inherited it from father. George 6th. George 6th. And so yes, it then passed to. Did you know, by the way, that those colours are how the drivers of the carriages of the landers, the colours that they were, they are inspired by the racing colours. That's why they look so similar. That's why you walk inside in cyclopedia. I do my best. Truthfully, I just bet on it because it was the King's horse. I had no inner knowledge. I had no. I didn't even really know what the odds were to me. This sort of didn't matter. And, you know, it was. I think it was 20 pounds that I put on it. I can't even remember how much I went back. But either way, I get the sense that you might know a bit more than I do. No, I. I, fortunately, know people who are supposed to know more. Are you cheat? No, you don't cheat. There is no cheating. Are you saying there's no cheating in horse racing? Not at this. I was not at group one level. I would say. Think of me once, I mean, what's group one? So that's the top. Top of the top. Best of the best. I think. Yeah. Other than. Give me some of other races, then. Well, so there's eight group ones, Royal Ascot. And then Epsom and Be a group one. So it's where it's the pinnacle, the legacy sort of races. Okay. And then you have the Kipkod Champions in October, which is a majority of winners of group ones, along the way. And do you get up. Do horses get up to group one? Yes. So is it like a prize fighter? You kind of. Yes. So ultimately you get handicapped as you go along and you get rated. And you are rated from 0 to. What's the highest rank for us ever? Anyone? Probably 100%. Throw it out to the. audience watching. We're going to pretend we have an order to. Frank. 1-5-7. Frank or there you go. So Frank or was the best. Well, Frank or were 14-0, which. And they kept him in training probably way longer than they needed to do. And they pushed him over multiple distances. He was. I mean, obviously you've got. Here where we've got history, you've got Yeats, who. Did he win 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009? He won four years on the vote. But then. One what? He won the gold cup. Oh, so he won the signature race. Okay. And he sort of became this legend. But in the modern era of. Since then, Frank was probably being the standout. And he's now happily covering horses. And he's basically just pimped out. Great. Yeah. He lives a very good life. Yes. Yeah, I think if he turns right, he goes into the paddock, if he turns left, he gets excited. That's basically his life. But yeah, he won an unbelievable fashion as I said in 2012. And so I follow those great stories. Obviously we brought over Black Caviar, which was I think maybe the same year, 2012. And she won. She's this amazing horse from. She was this amazing horse from Australia. Undefeated, just unspanked everyone in Australia. And she came here. And I don't think she was quite saying, but she still just managed to get up. So had a good double on them. Because lineage is obviously very important, isn't it? So yeah, I went to the yearlings parade. And it was like grand son of. Yeah, yeah. X, Y, Z. And it's all about Black type. So Black type in your history. So Black type is when you've won a horse, you get it's in bold, thick Black type. Do you know what's really funny is that I know it out on dates and things before doing these episodes? This feels like this is deep in the knowledge here of yours. It's not really, it's not really any knowledge that I've. You just, when you've been around, you hear what people say. So very fortunate to hang out with AP's Godfather to my son. So yet you get into it with him and it's a different nerdy AP McCoy champion, Jump Jockey. Great. 20 years. Jumping Jump Jockey. And you're right that when you look at the. Why are you looking away? You should know, AP. So that's her? Yeah. I know if I can get a tour of it. Yeah. Well, he's Sir AP, but we're going, but don't, we're. So that might be why I didn't know who wrote Sir AP. Now you say, "Of course, nice to the room." Yes, because when you look at the betting cards and things like that, you see colors, of course, of the, of the owners. And the. Sorry, I'm pretty very bad about each aspect of this car. Don't you, Jockey was there. But it's sort of indecisive for a ball if you don't know. There's lots of numbers. Yeah. And you may not necessarily know how to decide it. Yeah, race card can be confusing. Is there anything that you could say to help people through that particular? No, not really. I think there's a combination of. Because if you look at one layer, you then open another layer that you need to delve into. So you can look at, obviously, they'll always give you form for the last six, six races or something. So you can always look at form, but what the form doesn't tell you is what the, what the level of the race was that they might have won. So you could have a horse that's gone 1-1-1 in the last three races. But you don't necessarily know what level that race is. And there might be one that's gone 2-2-3, but they've all been at a higher level of race and would beat the one in one. So then there's a number of days since it last run, which is always a sign of, you know, if it's been fit and healthy and how long and how rested it could be versus, you know, you can't. But then it doesn't work. I always remember this is jump racing, but there was a horse called Covega that basically only run once or twice a year. So it was like 260 days since it last run and it would always win children. So it's very hard to predict unless you go and watch those races and understand who they're beating. Because you don't really get a list of who it be. You know, give you a little comments card about it's last run and everything else. But it's always worth doing a bit of work the day before just to see who it's beating in the race, are they in the race again? Has it won here? Because, you know, then it comes down to ground. Do they like the ground if they've won here? You also get a little C and a little D. So C means course, which means it's one at the location that you're at. D is distance. So it's one of the same distances as it's running now. And then they have a BF, which is beaten favourite, which is always a good sign. That's fascinating. And now, when. Sorry, just to add to that, would you say that you have any set rules for how much you think people should like, or you have a several of what your willingness put down for a day and lose? I mean, do you have. Because obviously this is gambling. Yeah, you might not win. I think if you can be disciplined enough to have a set amount a day. And then if you can have the ability to stay to a formula that you're happy to bet with, if you do tips, they might have one star, two star, three star horses. And then, but you bet. So let's say you do two pound 50 on a one star. But you. So if you have a three star, you do seven pound 50. So you keep it all for like, four related so that you are doing control of what you're doing. That is not a bad way of doing it. It's not a lot of luck involved in the sense of, you know, maybe your horse gets sort of trapped in the back of the group and the job is unable to get out. Or the. I don't know. Yeah, but that's also another way of looking. It's people bat on jockeys because they choose wisely which horses. Like the great AP McCoy? Yes, they bet on him, I imagine. Yes, they would have done it at the time, but not the grand national probably. So you struggle to win that for a lot of times. You tell me. I'm really okay, fine. Yeah, but he did win it in the end 2014. Is that when he was able to be godfather? Only once he won the grand national. Otherwise he was dead. And so, yeah, I think people do bat on jockeys, people bat on trainers horses that are in good form leading up to it. So there's many ways to skin the cat in the racing game. But this is what's so interesting about Royal Ascot is ultimately, I would say there is a vibe. the past percentage of people who come here who have nowhere near the knowledge that you just spouted out. The people love to just. - Well, and they'll probably be more successful or pick on colours or names. - Well, I mean, bitterly. - They're like, "King, I mean, it was just sort of, it was, certainly." - So I remember, did you bet on the King that day? - I did, but I also was, I was in the, I was in Shake Farhad's box that day, and he had a runner, and I also bet on that. And it was such a unique being in the parade ring with him, and he's cheering his horse on, and then the King's horse comes through to win, and he's still cheered, because if he was like, if you're gonna get beaten by one horse, let him be the King's horse. So, and I think with that sort of, we, you know, you knew how much Queen Elizabeth loved the racing, whereas, you know, we wanted the King to have an early boost in the fact that he'd have a win in here, and that's the perfect start for him to sort of really kick it into going, actually quite like this. - Yeah. - But I think he's also been reminded, it's not that easy since, but, you know, it's hard to get winners here. I think the Queen had 24, I think it's down as 24 winners. 10 of big races, but, you know, she had one in, I think she had a first in 1953, just as she'd taken over, with choir boy, so she just, - You might suggest that that was, - Stummy, yeah. - First year, you will win. And I think the last one was tactical in 2020, I think. So, but over all that period of time, there's only, she had, she was, - She'd, I guess, - Room of 24, but she's not that well documented, but she was obsessed with horses, and she just loved the, - She loved the breeding side of it, she loved the trainers, you know, Michael Stout, was so Michael Stout was her, probably seen as her favorite, I think, her main trainer, but. - She used to ride the course here. - Yeah. - She used to get on, and she used to sort of go out and sort of gallop down it. - Well, wouldn't you? - There's a nice, a lovely picture of her, I think in the '50s of her head. - Still her horse really is there. - Her head's got slightly coming off. - Still her horse, so. - I guess so, yeah. - But it's still cram land, but it's written into Parliament, isn't it? It's never can be anything else but a racetrack. - That's interesting. - Yeah, there you go. - Yeah. - I'm passing information back. - Yeah, now I'm gonna claim it from my own. - You take it, you take it. - And when we re-shoot this. (laughing) - And Eddie you out. - With Serapie McCoy. - Yeah. - Yeah. - My best friend, sorry. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, he's got farthest from my kids. (laughing) - I thought we spoke about this before. But let's talk a little bit about the Royal Enclosure because it is a fascinating aspect of this. People really want to get into it. They're whether it's by invite or by membership. Indeed, we came here today in part in Car Part One, which is very lucky because if you want to do that on the race day, you need to wait. - No chance. - I think there's like a hundred year waiting. - Yeah, I think it is. I think it's like one of those things that's passed down to family history. - Listen, if there's anyone in this conversation who doesn't need a Car Part pass, - Yeah. - To zoom out in, though. - Yeah, maybe. - You have other accent. - I was expecting, yeah. I was half expecting when I turned up today, so I have a technique in Car Part One. That's what I sort of expected you to do. I was looking forward to my prawn sandwich, isn't it? - Yeah. - The producers. - So they disappointed me, sorry. - Damn you, Serapie. - Yes, exactly. So the Royal Enclosure itself, there was always a sort of private spot for royals towards the finish line. But even before the parade from Windsor Castle came along, George IV brought in this idea of a Royal Enclosure in 1822, but it wasn't until 1845 where, and Quivittoria was on the throne by then, that it was a desire, an examiner was visiting. And there was this sense that there was a little bit of a security risk when it came to people flooding there, win a circle and all this sorts of things. So the Royal Enclosure that we know today came in 1845. And I have a gripe with the Royal Enclosure. And I've been. - Oh no. - To those watching, just so you know, there are ask-a-representatives behind the cameras watching carefully, but I nevertheless will raise my gripe. - There's a red dot on you right there, but go on. - It's gonna be okay. Where you watch the races from, on the stands here and so forth. You can see the race happening. If you're in the Royal Enclosure, where you watch from is past the finish line. So actually you miss a lot of the action. So it is a really interesting aspect of us discussing people wanting to get to the Royal Enclosure. You know, of course there are screens everywhere and they're, you know, even at the back, there's a massive screen that people watch stuff on. - You can leave it, you know? - Yes you can. - You can walk through and watch on the race cars. You can, but there is the iron stand and the iron stand is historically interesting because it was divorced. - I know, I love this. - Men were not allowed into the Royal Enclosure unless they got up to sort of naughty shenanigans because they were not free and single and looking for fun. - But I think it's quite an instant. - You've said to the iron stand, I know this. It's the naughty step, is it? I reckon it should be renamed to the naughty step. And actually wasn't actually changed since 1955. So quite late in the day. Now it's just you and my cat to get started. - It would be great to go back in time and experience what the Royal Enclosure was like then. You know, because it's even changed. It's gone through different variations since I've been coming to. In a few years there was like nightclubs here, like Mahiki and Booshy. - Yeah, Mahiki and Booshy would have a tent down the back end just on the bat wall of Carp Up 1 when you come through. There was like nightclubs and who were represented here now. - No way. - So it's sort of gone through that. But the remember where they used to do pop up nightclubs everywhere, I mean. - Yeah, that's so true, they were doing it. - Down in cows, Mahiki would pop up or something. So. - And then they went bust, so you know. - Nothing changed. - They got a wallet. - So I think even then they've always tried things and it's just nice to, it's very relaxed. You've got a lot of space. You can sort of have a break, have a glass of champagne and then you can get back to the race. - You can get back to the race. - I'm not sure I'll have to reveal that to you. - It's not what I was. - It's not what I'm getting. - What I'm saying is not for me to say so. - Many menswear brands trade on inherited heritage. Hackett London's story is slightly different. It was not born as an old house revive for a new market but from a sharp high for the enduring codes of British dress, hailing, sporting elegance, formal wear and the easy rituals of the English gentleman. From the beginning, Hackett has never been about the style to her for its own sake. Its strength has been taking the traditions of British style and making them feel relevant, wearable and modern. The story begins on Portobello Road where Jeremy Hackett and Ashley Lloyd Jennings met while searching for exceptional secondhand clothes. What began as a shared appreciation for well-made vintage garments soon became a business and in 1983 the first Hackett shop opened on New King's Road. It's early following came from customers who understood the value of pieces with character and provenance, Tweet Jackets, flannel trousers, cavalry twills, proper shirts, refined accessories in the wider language of British sporting life from rowing and rugby to polo in the countryside. What Hackett recognized was that these pieces had a longevity that went beyond trend. They were rooted in quality natural fibers and traditional English style but they could be worn in a way that felt relaxed and contemporary. As the man grew beyond what secondhand sauce and could supply the brand began creating new garments inspired by those same codes. The early Hackett proposition was simple and powerful. Take the language of classic British style and reinterpret it from man who wanted elegance without stiffness, heritage without costume and refinement without formality for formality's sake. One of Hackett's enduring strengths has been its instinct for association. The brand has long aligned itself with pursuits that express a certain British ideal, rowing, rugby, polo, equestrian culture and motorsports. These world share a common language of precision, discipline, performance and understated style. Motorsport in particular gives Hackett a contemporary expression of that world. Today, Hackett sports partnership with Formula E feels especially relevant, forward looking, technical, global and rooted in performance while still carrying the sense of polish and refinement expected from Hackett. This is not merely about logos or sponsorship and it's best it's about a shared attitude. Consider design, precision, craft and a quiet sense of manure. Hackett speaks to a man who values quality and ease but also understands the power of dressing well. The retail experience has always been part of Hackett's narrative. The stores are not simply places to buy, close. They are designed to communicate a world, wood, polished details, tailored displays in the sense of order, creates an atmosphere that feels recognizably British without becoming old fashioned. The sense of world building is important. Hackett is not only selling tailoring, sportswear or casual wear and isolation. It presents a complete wardrobe for the modern gentleman. from office to travel, from weekend dressing to formal occasions, from summer events to black tie, and of course, morning dress at Royal Ascot. Of course, any brand working with heritage has to earn its authenticity. Hackett does this through tailoring, and particularly through its Savorow presence. The JP Hackett townhouse at number 14 Savorow represents the most elevated expression of the brand's craft, and indeed, I'm wearing one of their suits now. Hackett's tailoring offers span several levels of personalization. Personal tailoring allows her ready-to-wear suit to be customised with considered details, while made-to-measure shirts and suits offer a more precise fit and a wider choice of fabrics, linings, buttons and finishes. At the top of this offer, it's bespoke tailoring. Available exclusively at number 14 Savorow, here the client can choose every element from fabric and styling to lining and trims, before being measured by the headcuster with two to three fittings required to finalise a garment, handcrafted by Hackett's in-house Sautorial tailors. What is interesting about Hackett is that it approaches tailoring not as something frozen in the past, but as a living surface. It understands the rules, morning dress, black tie, lounge suits, wedding dressing, but translates them with clarity for the modern man. Today's fashion cycles accelerate and trends come and go, with alarming speed. Hackett's proposition feels reassuring, because it is not about constantly invention, it is about refinement, understanding what works, why it works, and how to make it relevant for the present. That is perhaps the essence of Hackett now. A British wardrobe design for a global life. It is classic but not static, polished but not rigid, made to last, but very much made to be lifted. Discover Hackett London at Hackett.com and explore the latest spring summer 2026 campaign, the journey of a man. So, morning dress, people stumble. I feel that we need to discuss this. We are conspicuous in our morning suitedness. You and I are not actually here on ask it, but we felt it only appropriate to do this episode in the finery. We are officially in the Royal enclosure area, so we would have to. Fine then, fair enough. We just had to do it. It just feels quite comfy. Do you like morning dress? How much do you know about it? I don't know a load about it. I know bits about it and I'm sure you're going to fill me in with a detail. We're about to have a lot of fun. Yeah, well, what's your space and what you class fun? Myself and Tom, the non-drinker, slightly different ideas of fun, but start your engines. So, I'll mount up. Yeah. So, in the 16th century, there was a form of dress called the Jistocore. And the Jistocore was a, I mean, it is that archetypical sort of 16th, 17th century pistols at dawn. Yes, but it's almost like a long dress. It's like a kind of casak that flared all the way out. So, this was what would ultimately become the frock coat. And what the differences between those two eras is that riding became a habit of the upclasses. And in the morning, you would be known to go out riding on your horse. And clothes were adapted and cut in a different way to allow you to be on your horse without you screwing up while you're clothing. And the morning coat and the, and to some extent, the frock coat, but the morning coat is the ultimate expression of that movement, which is very Jane Austen to ride in the morning, usually out into the distance on some sort of marvellous folly on your estates or something like that. We always, we rode out to folly this morning, didn't we? And so, which is why when you see, you know, I speak about this a lot less locked, you know, in place like Blenheim and so forth, they've got these sort of random sort of structures around the estate. And there's issues just to get somebody to go out to. And obviously in the old days, you had things like the origins of the term steeple chasing was because they would be like, you know, first church, first church, because the church was the building you could see. So it's like first there. And the morning coat, which is what we're wearing now, it's also known as a cover coat. It's designed, it's perfectly to be sitting on a saddle with. So it cuts away early after the button. And it has a scent event, which means that it splits on the side of the saddle. And gentlemen always wore waist coats because the advent of the watch had come along. And so a waistcoat was able to help you hold onto your watch in a way. So that was why people started wearing waist coats. But when morning dress first came along, everyone was wearing breaches. And so that would come a lot later on. But ultimately, the scene was set in terms of how people were going to be dressing. The top half was set. With Royal Escapita also with the gist of core, the tricorn was the hat that went with it. But then when they changed to the frot coat and the and the morning coat, the top hat is what went with it. And actually, if you look, I mean, they are 350 years old this year. But Lock and Co are, you know, we're making them bad. Then they were witness as a shop to that being done. I mean, Americans are sort of trying to wear a sluricle these days about turning 250. We have a hat shop that's 350 years old. So, you know, there you go. They've got a long way to go. Anyway, so this is also the era of the great male renunciation. I love talking about the great male renunciation because it's the core part about why we dress today and the way we dress today, which is the renunciation of silkened and sort of liveryed clothing. So there was a there was a chat called Salamli Skeffington who had. Salamli Skeffington. It feels like. It quite makes no sense. It makes no sense. No, but he was a real person. But he used to, he was like a real dandy. He was a fob, I believe, the advertisement. And he would dress very embellished clothing. And it was the likes of him that sort of fell out of fashion and walked him along after that with these dark coats, single kind of block colored waist coats. And the bridges remained. But then along him, Bob Bromble, who was great friends with the Prince Regent, our old friend, Prince Regent, our previously mentor, Prince Regent, and was basically telling him that people start leaning towards wearing trousers. Because he liked wearing longer trousers. His friends were the Prince Regent till he lost all his money, Bob Bromble. I mean, the Prince Regent. Yes, I mean, yes. I imagine friends came and went quite quickly. Yes, that's exactly right. The whole trouser thing was actually quite a big deal in Europe because if you were a song culotte, which are without bridges, that means. That means you were part of the rebels. So if you wore trousers and men, you were part of the working class. And they were the ones who chopped all the heads off the French aristocracy in the revolution in 1889. And so, so trousers started becoming a thing that people were wearing. And so we're all kind of sort of putting this little parts of the dukes all together to arrive where we are today. But it was Bob Bromble that said that men of Erdogan should wear black waisted coats, white ruffled shirts and pantaloons. And the wasted jacket part of it is an interesting part of it because what you'll notice on your morning jacket is that there is a seam running horizontally across the middle of the jacket just below the buttonhole. And the thing with that is that that is what distinguishes this type of tailoring and this kind of jacket from the jackets we know today that either lounge suit, which is just a single panel that runs tops bottom because that break is where when you're sitting in the saddle, you know, this is this something that is designed for racing. But then also wasted also first to this idea of tailoring, bringing a jacket and make it flattering. And I wonder because of Bob Bromble and his sort of, it also, Foppery was keen on, on everyone looking Foppery. Was keen on everyone looking highly tailored and elegance and viscine in that way. So I'm not 100% sure which is which because it could kind of be either. And anyway, we move forward to morning dresser today. Do you like the fact that they've extended to navy? I don't. Shock. The thing is this is there's already plenty of colours to be worn too. And that is enough. You have what we're wearing, which is the traditional one and the racing grey. I do have a grey. You have a grey top. There you go. Inspired by the kick. actually because I think his looks great. - His looks superb. - Yeah. - The trousers you're wearing are referred to as cashmere strike trousers. It doesn't mean there's any cash in them. It's just the design. I've sort of got mine on too. I don't, this is sort of my least favorite part of morning dress. I almost think getting racing grays is a much better option because a sort of simple gray is lovely. But the component parts of morning dress are the body coat, the waistcoat, the trousers, shirt and tie, and black shoes. Yes, you have beautifully shiny black shoes. Why do you have beautifully shiny black shoes? - Because Tom, you might have given them a bath. - I've washed the show. - This is the great step in my life. (laughing) Yeah, I get a bit of a polish. Polishing, she polish shoes are very, very important. They wash proof them and they make them look gleaming glorious. - And you love it. - I learned a bit about buffing my shoes this morning. You watching you work. There was a smile on your face and a whistle on your lips. - When I was spitting on your shoe. - And now you know there's no reason. - That was a bit weird, but I saw the effect that it had. - And the effect on which I did it. So those are the component parts I think, if we work up from the bottom of shoes are really important. My take on this is that Oxfords or Lofits. - Yeah. - And you're like a semi-cross, aren't you? - So yes, this is actually almost, it's why I wear them, it's because I really like these as a dress shoe, but it is a slip-on. And then again, when I'm standing up, it does look like a cap toe shoe without, and I like when I, so like the gray socks to go with the trousers. And I either wear that or wear like a sort of light blue to go with the waistcoat. Just, foppery. But the, you shouldn't wear Darby's, Darby's are too clunky, and they shouldn't, they shouldn't be black Darby's at all. And then monks are not suitable either double or double. - Can you explain to me what a monk is? - So a monk shoe is those shoes you see with the kind of straps that go over the top. - Oh, I agree. So the double monk has two straps and the single monk is also one, I know exactly what you mean, yeah. - You are, I think, due a pair of suede brown shoes. So you'll come to know the joy of having them, but I will die if I see you wearing them with morning dress. - It would happen. - Good. I think that the great hazard of morning dress, which you see largely after the speeches at weddings, is when the shirt pokes out between the waistcoat and the trouser. I fear that before we knew each other, you might have fallen into that trap. - No. - One thing that never happens in a matter of the situation, everything stays tucked in, everything stays fastened. I apologize. - Anything such a snob. - But I'm so happy it's the first time you let me proudly. - I just, just a personal dad. - I mean, yeah, exactly. - It is there. - Yeah, no. But I possibly didn't do it for the same reason what you think. In a situation where you might have played a game of rugby and you leave a bar, if you're sure, they can say whatever they want about you. If everything's tucked in, your tie's still done tight and your jacket's still on, you always look like you're in the full control of the situation whether you are or not. - Yes, very much so. And I think there is a cheat for that, which is where braces. - Very, yeah, which is a new thing that I actually quite enjoy doing now. - Who inspires you to do that? - I wonder who can. - Told me to do that. - I'm talking told you. - Pleats next. - No, I don't mind. - Let's not go down the police route. What are you having an argument about? - Could we do a whole, who do a whole episode of Pleats? - Pleats. - I'm just gonna do massive tangents. - Stuff while asking. - Let's look at our pleats. - Pea and the horsey. So with, but that is a genuine sort of hack because you are moving around a lot. It is hot and you will be sweating and that is something I really recommend to everybody. If you're coming to Royal Ascot, especially if you're coming by car, bring a spare shirt. If you have a spare shirt in the car to change into when it's a really hot day, it will just change your life. It is just so, it makes such a difference. - So what are you gonna do that, though? - Just make off mid-rays. You're not racing, and there's plenty of races. I mean, how far away? - That is taking your look at how you look over enjoying the day, I think. I don't think, no, wild horses could ever go. - Oh, I'm just gonna nip off, do you shit? - I'm just talking, you're back. - I'll be right back. If you're miserable because you are just sweating through and you're feeling kind of grimy and gross and it gets hotter here, changing into a nice fresh crisp shirt, it's probably cold 'cause it's been in the shelter of your car. - But then I'm thinking I need to bring a towel, I need to bring some-- - Some triceps. - A triceps. (laughing) - Yeah, it's a lot of effort. I just find the cold spot and try and stop sweating. - The air condition robot. - Yeah, well, yeah. - Or this all are these wonderful long jeans. - One of those long jeans surroundings. - Temperatures is perfect, isn't it? Before we continue a word from our friends in Longin, the Swiss watchmaker has been the official time partner of Royal Ascot since 2007. A relationship that reflects not only precision, but a shared commitment to tradition, elegance and performance. Founded in Santa Maria in 1832, Longin has built a remarkable heritage in watchmaking alongside a longstanding role in the world of sport, particularly within a question competition where timing and excellence are everything. And this season, Longin will unveil a new addition to the master collection, the official watch of the competition launching on the 11th of June, stay tuned for that release. I mean, I see why Longin and Royal Ascot are kind of partners together. I think that there is so much to be said for the way in which horse racing and timekeeping is obviously, it's the same with athletics and so forth. But that sort of sense of elegance and sophistication and matched with the kind of precision timekeeping, I think it always very well. - It's made such a difference to furlough markers timing of each furlough, so you understand that now they use it as a visual whilst you racing, so you can sort of see what people are clocking. What the horses are clocking per furlough, and you can tell if they're going at fast pace, slow pace. I don't know. You know, I wonder how much that goes on the jockey's heads to know, can they, like a racing driver could, he could say, right, you're driving Monaco and he'll sit there and you'll imagine driving Monaco and they can get it within like half a second. I wonder if jockey's whilst that's on horse could pretty much pace their furlough as they're going along. - Do you think they wear ear things at all? - No. - They wear. - They wear. - They wear them from the one. - They're sharing each other too much. - They wear the hints of whipping each other. - Yeah, they get quite angry with each other. - I bet they do. And if you wear a watch, you must, I mean, there are arguably watches that you could wear with a steel bracelet. However, this is formal dress, you should wear a watch with a strap. I did a leather strap. And like this particular one from Login. So I have also got a Long Geno. There's some exciting news coming out, Long Gen, coming sort of around June time. So it was a new collection coming out. So watch this space. - Very exciting. I'm enjoying the moon phase on there. It's no pity. - It's a very pretty. - How's it off as they say? (laughing) - It's important however to watch out that you should wear a watch with a leather strap. - A strap? That's good to know. - Yep. - We don't know whether many people would know that. - I wouldn't know that. - So you find any braids. - You've wanted to come along with your sort of massive steel bracelet of watches. No, no, no, no. - Refinery leather strap. - So to finish off, ties at the order of the day, Kravatsa Band, it asks it. I need to check why that is. - Yeah, I was going to ask that. - I don't disagree. - I want you to tell me why. - Well, I don't disagree with it. I agree with it. I think everybody-- - And no bow ties. You don't have bow ties, though. No bow ties, no. But people really mess up Kravats. I think it can look really scary. - Yeah, it's scary, me, John. - It's a quite complicated thing to do. It could kind of look this sort of clunky, huge thing. So I reckon do stick with the tie. It would just look better. And you do see a lot of terrible kind of, you know, groomed parties at weddings, sort of all trying Kravats that it just looks horrendous. And it kind of, you-- - And they get worse as they goes on. - Great. - And then obviously with the top hat. Now, have you ever had a top hat fitted? - Yes. - Isn't it fun? It's quite scary at points as well. - I do worry about your life if this is the highlight and fun that you talk about. - It is. - Yes, I have. So I have an unfortunate story in the fact that I did have a top hat made. And I may have enjoyed it. quite a lot. Well first and foremost, so I had one made for me and then at my first Royal Asker, I had it, I was on the way here and I'd put it down, I'd stooped to the dig now, the box, I sat on it. It's first day outing, didn't survive. It survived and had a crease, I had to look a bit funny the whole day but then sent it back to him, fixed it and then the following one, I might have enjoyed the day too much. And gone to the toilet and called it down and then maybe forgot to pick it up and then went out and went back half an hour later. That was not there. I thought it was quite bad. Yeah that is bad, that's very bad for me. That was in Kelpat 2, so I noticed at one, but fine, yeah. Well it's jokies and owners and trainers so they don't need any more hats. Well if you go down out of the third day, I had to go into the hats shop and buy a new one. So it was an expensive mistake as well, yes, it's the one that I have got with me today. Very good. Wait, you got the silk plush one from a hat and did you bought it from the Royal Ascot shop? That's pretty good. Now silk plush is really amazing. All the best looking top hats are amazing from the silk plush. You know Winston Churchill wore an amazing silk plush hat as wedding and most of the statesmen and royals and stuff, you will see them wearing them and they got this beautiful sheen to them. But they were made in very few factories and then it got down to be made just in one factory by these brothers in France remember who fell out and one brother burned down the factory and people have tried to reverse engineer creating this silk plush but it's gone so they can't so you can't do it. This year the United States of America will be celebrating 250 years, a grand milestone to be sure. However in the efforts to continue being the bigger brother, we brits are having a low-key but no less important celebration of a hat shop which is celebrating 350 years since its foundation. Locke and Co-Hattes are an institution and ancient looking shoppers in James's street which looks like it creaks and bends under the strain of his unequaled heritage, the sights and times at his witness and of course the illustrious people in his dress. Locke and Co have been the home of hats since 1676. The top hat and other hats we know today would not appear for over 100 years and variations like the tricorn was the order of the day to accompany the juxtacore. Robert Davis established the hat shoppers in James's street and it was in 1765 that James Locke who had married into the Davis family and took over the business moved across the St James's street to number 6 and established the shop where it remains today with its glorious and very English patina. Our scepted Isle of Britain was a world leader in many things but at the time of opening had some catching up to do when it came to the production of hats. After all the term milliner derives from Milan as this was the world cap of hat making at the time. Locke would be part of the movement that entirely shifted the fashion, influence and craftsmanship centre of gravity. At the turn of the 19th century the wall of fame began to be built at Locke with national heroes like Lord Nelson in 1800 having his famous bikeron made that. By now the top hat had replaced the tricorn and the frot coat taken over the juxtacore. The top hat was becoming the court-hattour choice for state occasions and an emblem of leadership in industry and politics and with Britain in its pomp at the time what they did the rest of the world followed. In 1849 it was noted that the gamekeepers at Holcomb Hall the famous estate of the El Le Vlesta would have their top hats knocked off when riding between drives on shooting days. The second Earl's younger brother Edward went to Locke and co with a request for a hat that could glance off the branches and remain on their heads. And the result was the baller hat that we know today. If you go in today to have a hat made you will be measured by a conformer tour, a contraption adopted by Locke in 1852 and still used today. The small paper pattern that creates of the circumference of your head will be used to then shape the hats rim. And the room in which they do this you will see that it was not only Nelson that had the lock all of fame. Notable customers include Oscar Wilde with stood Churchill who wore a silk plus top hat on his wedding day, Charlie Chaplin, Jackie Kennedy and Douglas Fairbikes Jr. Hats and indeed the shop had featured in Bond films and Kingsman. Walking in there is like stepping through a time walk, transporting you into what Britain should be about, traditions, ceremony, craftsmanship and a focus on the important things in life which in this case is the simple hat. Visit Locke and co-hatters in store or online. If you're going to Royal Asgard, it's worth getting your hat properly fitted. It's much, we like it in here. As much as we like the pageantry, there is the idea and the science behind the sport. The earthiness. You know, get to the real root. Yeah. Oh, the edge. Oh, you've done there. Yeah. So we're going to be someone rather special, the clock of the course, who has allowed us access to the hallowed grounds. Yes. The final furlough. Yeah. Let's go stand on it. Exactly. Hallowed ground we might argue. We are on the course of Asgard and in the distance you can see the golden gates through which the procession of the Royal family each day happens. But today we are here with someone rather special, these crystals and thank you so you are the clock of the course. That's correct. Hi, I'm the clock of the course on the head of racing. So can we break down exactly what that means? Because behind us we have what looks like a sort of an engine of your trade or your craft. Could you explain to us what happens on the course and how you administer the perfect racing course basket? Sure. Well, I've got an answer responsible for one of my responsibilities is for preparing the course alongside the grounds team for racing and ensuring that it is in the best possible condition for racing for the five days and that it is even inconsistent and that we are all set up to host the meeting. So I mean one of those operations is irrigating and behind us you can see the rest of the irrigation machine just by this we are just about to put some water down to make sure there is enough moisture in the soil to give some give for you know for racing on Friday. What is it that you are aiming for every year? What is the perfect ground? How much detail does it go into? Do you have your perfect year? Then just some years ago we just we may have put too much water on with that a bit too dry and I'm sure the owners and trainers probably tell you the year on all the time depending on which horse they're running. Well, well that is can with the case right? Yeah, I mean ideally flat racing should be run as stipulated by the BHA and by many most people's opinions on good to firm ground which is a surface when a flat race horse can really stretch out and gallop it is full potential so it is firm enough for it to be able to do that but also has enough give for a horse to be able to let himself down and gallop really comfortably on it. So good to firm is a description. Now going ranges are going to description ranges sort of from hard at the very firmest and you never want to race on hard firm ground is as bad as firm as you ever want to get and then it goes right down to heavy as being the softest but for flat racing we aim for good to firm. And how hard is it to plan that out because obviously no whether man, whether lady can ever get it right so should you do more than they do? Well, no that is quite true. We constantly watch the forecast and you know for months out really and just try to maintain though if we can get though if we can get the grass and the surface in in perfect condition to be able to take both rainfall and irrigation you know there's a good depth of sword that the soil is in the condition where it can drain easily then we can sort of tinker with it around the edges so if the forecast is for say 10 or 15 millimetres of rain that week then we would obviously slacken off a bit with the irrigation but you need to be constantly monitoring. We use a number of instruments to constantly monitor how much moisture is in there and how that how the sort of resistance is I mean this is the old traditional method that there wouldn't go as thick that we use to sort of feel that the sort of resistance within the soil. Is that pure instinct? You never stand and how and any you have it? Yes, I'm going to feel for it I suppose yeah over them in years and then different soil types and different tracks will feel different however there is also a test track is going instrument that we also use that gives you a digital readout that measures sort of sheer and resistance to penetration and that comes with a digital. So there's a number of instruments we use as well as our own kind of as well as our own sort of pride and prestige yeah. This one I quite like this this this type we take basically it is an old walking stick that you take the end off you sharpen to a little bit of a little bit of a pointing getting in the ground easily and then because this is a very sandy surface here at Asuka every time you poke it in you know and I you know what of course daily during the race meeting twice a day it does eventually wear out and you know the stick shorten because the abrasive nature of the soil yeah but yeah the carves have everyone has a has a preferred stick I suppose and I quite like these ones. It's great just top facts and figures in terms of the timeline of planning to get Asuka into the state it needs to be in how far back are we talking and actually how long does it take for for example to make sure the entire course is properly watered and and just just a kind of an idea of the scale of the job at hand. I mean so every year we try and do a renovation in late summer which is which is I suppose effectively a key part of our preparation and that is basically to get the fat out and to get new grasses in there because rye grass that performs at this best in its kind of first 12 months. So ideally we want to do that in about August. So that helps us remove the thats which keeps it free draining, we get some new seed in there and if the conditions are right we'll do that in August. After that it'll be the spring the following year we make sure that it's well fed, that the grass is coming, it's not with free of disease and then we start using machines to just make sure it's draining properly. So there'll be things like vertigrain as aeration machines really. The tools like vertigrain is that poke holes in the ground lifted a bit to ease compaction and then that helps the roots go down, the swarves are thickening and that sort of thing. So I suppose really other than the previous end of summer it'll be the spring and when you start to get growing conditions and then you as you get closer to the raw meeting itself you start tinkering with it or with regard to irrigation and feed and you know those little sort of magic sort of products that the hand groundsman will use just to get it in his perfect condition at the for the big week. Can we talk grassland? What is the perfect grassland? So we like to have it in around 75 millimetres about 3 inches. Is there a reason for that? Yeah, because then it kind of stands up and doesn't sort of lay over and what you want is a grass to be sort of respite springy. If it starts to lay over then then it then you kind of might get some sort of dead material underneath it, it doesn't take the rain as well, it doesn't take the irrigation as well. So about about 3 inches or 75 millimetres is about our perfect length. It can depend on the type of grass you're growing as well but we tend to have flat racing, some of that racing 75 millimetres. I'm wondering what the sheep used to be used to keep their length the sun. Many years ago I think they were, I mean obviously you know when we didn't have the tools that we do now they didn't use to use sheep. The moment you speak, they were very natural, we're very natural, we're almost obviously. But I know God, I wouldn't have been putting sheep on this now. We're not being terrific and I'd love it if I'd love to see a trailer's face if he rocked up one time, there was just sheep and we're all in there, that's a run the next prank. You know what, let's keep you under the track. Do you find that there is a kind of a politics to play when in your role in terms of communications with trainers and outside influences? Well, I mean different horses act on different going, they always say the best horse is act on any going of course. But it is true, some horses will prefer a faster surface and some horses will prefer a softer surface or act, so act better or you know be able to perform better. And therefore I want you to be more competitive on their preferred surface. However, our director is to aim for good to firmly possibly can. Clearly that's what we want to do and if the conditions are ideal, I you've got a long sort of dry period where you can produce that kind of ground, that's what we would aim to do. And we have that, at least we have that kind of jurisdiction and the BHA is sort of preferred going to fall back on to say that we're aiming for the going that we're supposed to be producing because you will get people that would prefer you to put on more water or less. Would you say you're on track now? You said the 6 million in April, so it's been quite dry and is a very dry, very dry really Mike. I mean we are racing Friday, we'll be able to produce, be able to produce that ground for then, it'll depend on how quick and how dry it gets in the in the in the in the proceeding time. Yeah. You've been clock here since 2005. What are the situations you've seen where it's been really good, really bad and the kind of the way you manage to mitigate problems that have arisen over the years. Gosh, I think then well the first year was particularly challenging. Obviously we were opened after being closed for a year in 2005, the raw meat we went to York and was hosted there. And then obviously we'd been shutting this track was rebuilt then. So 2006 with a new grandstatt and a new track was particularly challenging. Not going on. A lot going on and we had had a race meeting on it before, about three weeks before we raced at the end of May and a few horses had gallops on it. But obviously that was pretty intense. Had this to memory now. Even after all that time of all that prep, is it just, is it mainly because a horse hasn't gone on it, you just don't know how they're going to feel and it's an unknown for you. Whereas if you're rebuilding, you've sort of got knowledge bank and everything else. Whereas this time you're going in completely blind. Well that's it. And because you're racing for five days consecutively, the preparation's got to be spot on for that first day in order to be able to maintain it because you don't have all day to prepare it for the next day if you see what I mean. So you've got it, you can just only tinker with it each night. For example, if it's a really hot dry week, we will water every night. But if you've got it, if the ground is almost to quick beforehand then you'll never going to be able to catch up. So there's always got an element of an experience when you're using something for the first time and effectively. That's what we were doing with a world class meeting for five days. So I think that was quite challenging. As you get as a team and I get more experience with it, you know, things have got a little easier. I think that one of the hardest is, well, it was fun enough. 2021, I think it was a COVID year when we had a huge amount of rain on the Friday and I know we only had a limited crowd here because we'd got a test event. It absolutely pulled with rain all Friday morning. And we ended up having to, I think Thursday night, Friday morning, we ended up having an inspection. And that was quite challenging. We did manage to race. We moved a lot of rail, the ground seemed much tremendous, moved a lot of rail, we race. But there was a concern there as to whether or not the track was going to be safe enough to race. So that was a nervous one. Now I understand that Queen Elizabeth was keen on racing the course, you know, before just before everything kicked off. Did she tend to give any opinion on the going at all? Did she tend to kind of make a feelings known? Absolutely. I mean, she would very often, after the Royal Procession would arrive in the parade room. And if I was fortunate enough to be presented to her, she would mention the going. And because as a, as a procession comes in, you can now have not been in it. But I think you can honestly feel if it's quite firm, you know, through the landhouse, through the wheels of the landhouse. And if you can kind of feel what the condition of the track is like and she would say what it feels, she would make a comment about how the ground felt, quite often actually. And so we've done a wonderful job. It's nice and you know, friends have a runner sheet. Absolutely. And it might be worth just making it not towards your team, the people who are well with you know, how many grounds do you have who are kind of, you know, loyal experts at, you know, treating this course with great respect and reverence for his history and for the people who are coming to enjoy the occasion. Well, the ground steam, you know, is almost 20 in total. Half of which are on the, are looking after mainly the lawns, the plants, the flowers, the shrubs, the trees etc etc. And then they'll have a dedicated look after the track. And I mean, they do a fantastic job to be honest because, you know, it's year-round, all weather's and they take great pride in what they do. And yeah, we're very lucky to have them. So, yeah, yeah, big chef out to them. Marvelous. Well, thank you very, very much for thank you, allowing us onto the course. Special place, special job. Yeah, I might just sprint last half a long time. They won't complain really really. They won't quite be the same time as one of the sprinters, but it's really good. Yeah, definitely. I might not make it. I shouldn't mean it. It's half fell or something still away, actually, to be fair. But yeah, super. Thank you. You're welcome. Mike, do you know what one thing I regret enormously after this conversation is that I'm coming to ask it this year as well. I fear I may not see you, except I wonder whether if I stick around for the sing along, then perhaps there's going to be something. You see me on the band stand. There's something raucous might happen. Yeah, you never know. So, you never know, swinging in from a balcony. Yes, exactly. So, with that in mind, I look forward to it. And then we'll have a day like this as well. Yeah, that would be nice. It's a nice beautiful here. And it's actually really lovely to see the course on this elevation. It's an exciting place to be. And it's been more the way down to the swindly bottom from here. Swindly bottom. But and I can see the shard and what could be better. And you keep throwing it back to seeing, enjoy the greenery. Stop looking back for the big metal building. It's very live. Anyway, it was lovely to have this can turn around the course. Very good. Thank you. So, I stole that from Alex Payne by the way. The going was good. Yes. The bit was between our tea and there was not a stumble. I remain Tom Chamberlain and this has been the luxury dispatch recorded here at Ascot Racecourse. My thanks to Mike Tindall for joining us and for sharing his perspective one of the most distinctive events in the British calendar. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please do like, subscribe, and leave a comment. We read everyone. Tell us your own Ascot traditions, the occasions you return to year after year, or the worlds of luxury you would like us to explore next. Thanks again to today's partner Long Jean. Thank you for listening and happy dressing and thank you to AP Recruit. We've jockeyed for position in our conversation. We got out the blocks quick. All right, the stalls first. Yes. I'm going to walk and I can go in there. I can see sugar cubes after this. (laughing)