Inside Lindsay Clancy's Home

As a warning, some of this content contains graphic and disturbing details, including discussions of suicide and the killing of children. So please listen or watch with care. We'll have resources at the end of the episode. So we asked her, you know, how are you feeling horrified? And then she wrote down, "Do I have an attorney?" And I said with my team that at this time we're just getting to know you and getting to know the case and we're not sure exactly what is happening. And we asked her "Do you have questions for us?" And she asked, "Is my body broken? Are my legs straight?" That was Dr. Jill and Biswas, a psychiatrist from Brigham and Women's Hospital. Biswas consulted on Lindsey Clancy's treatment in January 2023 after the then 32-year-old mother killed her three children and harmed herself at the family's Duxbury, Massachusetts home. This is a trial that is so hard to watch and yet it's hard to look away from. As a reminder, Lindsey is on trial for three counts of first degree murder. But this is not a case of did she do it? But why? Her defense is arguing that she should not be held criminally responsible for the deaths of her children by reason of mental disease or defect, that she was suffering from postpartum psychosis at the time exacerbated by the medication she was taking. Under Massachusetts law, jurors will have to decide whether Lindsey knew that what she was doing was wrong at the time of the deaths, but also whether she had control of her actions at that time. Clearly, it's a complex case. Opening statements began on July 27 with the trial expected to last several weeks. This week, jurors heard passages from Lindsey's journal as well as testimonies from doctors and nurses about Lindsey's medical treatment and the efforts to save her three young children, Kora Dawson and Callan. We've been following this case closely and we covered the first week of the trial in our last episode. For our continuing coverage, you can check the case-by-case feed wherever you find your podcast or you can watch on the 48 hours YouTube channel. I'm 48 hours correspondent Aaron Moriarty and this is Case-by-Case. Joining me today is Christina Rex. She's a reporter and anchor for Boston CBS Station WBZ TV. Christina, thanks for being here. I know that you're coming right after a long day court or at least almost two weeks of being in court. Almost two weeks now. Thank you for having me. Well, you've been covering this case literally from day one. You were actually reporting from the Clancy home on the night of January 24th, 2023 when these deaths occurred and you have been present in the courtroom at some extremely intense moments. You heard Patrick Clancy's testimony, his chili 911 call, along with testimonies from first responders on the scene. So my first question honestly is about you. How are you doing? This has to have been tough on you. Yeah, I mean, thank you for asking. That 911 call is going to stick out in my mind, for sure, as the most harrowing thing I've ever heard in my 10 years of reporting and this case has not been easy to cover. As you know, we're supposed to kind of remove ourselves from our coverage set off maybe at the end of the day. But this is just one that sticks with you. I'm curious how you would describe what the move was like in the courtroom, particularly during that 911 call or even during Patrick's testimony. Yeah. So about the 911 call, just a reminder that Patrick Clancy's request, the judge ruled that that 911 call could not be recorded to distribute. So the mood in the room, it was solemn. It was really tense. It was emotional. You could hear a kind drop and there were several people shedding tears when the six and a half minute call wrapped up. The remembers of the public, even some jurors who you could seek crying and then Lindsey Clancy herself was loudly sobbing when that call finished playing. And since then, you know, testimony has still been grim at times, but it's taken a much more technical turn and been kind of less emotionally driven than that 911 call in the early days. I understand that Lindsey was first brought to the ER at South Shore Hospital and then later was transferred to Brigham and Women's because she needed further treatment. The children were brought to Beth Israel Plymouth's ER. What can you tell us about the testimonies from physicians? First, the ones who treated Lindsey when she got to the hospital. Give me some sense of our injuries. Were you surprised by the extent of some of her injuries? We had known about some of Lindsey's injuries from her defense attorney. And this week we got to hear from some of the ER doctors who treated Lindsey at South Shore Hospital and then prosecutors also questioned psychiatrists from Brigham and Women's who had assessed Lindsey's mental state shortly after that night. Now, most of the questions we heard from the prosecution and defense were about treatment. We heard about rounds of CPR that had been used to attempt to revive the children. We had heard about the marks found on their bodies that were consistent with strangulation. And then also, of course, as you mentioned, the injuries to Lindsey Clancy's body. So Lindsey did sustain serious injuries to her spine. They left her paralyzed. She still paralyzed today from the waist down. Were you surprised, though, to hear the discussion about coding that she actually went into cardiac arrest? I had not known that. I had known that from her defense attorney. So it wasn't surprising to me, but I understand that it may have been surprising to the public. You know, all people knew about what had happened was an alleged suicide attempt. I don't think the extent of the injuries, including, you know, cardiac arrest that first 24 hours in the hospital. I don't think that was very publicly known. And let's talk about the children, which I think is very difficult to talk about. On Monday, the prosecution called to the stand the ER physician who treated Dawson and Kalen Clancy when they were rushed to Beth Israel that night. And the physician who treated Kora also testified. The doctors went into great detail about the children's conditions and the efforts, the heroic efforts to try to save them. These children were only, you know, Kora was five years old. Dawson three and Kalen eight months old being brought into the ER with severe injuries. How difficult was that for people in the court to hear? And particularly for Lindsey who was sitting there? Yeah, I mean, it was really hard for everybody in the courtroom to hear these life-saving efforts, but Lindsey was visibly upset, especially when they were speaking about the youngest Kalen, because he regained consciousness after CPR, but he was eventually declared dead because his brain never regained function. That was after a few days. And I've also noticed in the courtroom that Lindsey doesn't look at pictures of her kids. So she has an evident screen that's right in front of her at her seat, but often when pictures of her children are up on that screen during these testimonies, she looks at her lap instead of at the screen. The prosecution also entered some pretty graphic pictures of Lindsey from that night showing pictures of her neck and wrists where they were cut. What argument? What is the point of the prosecution showing these photos to the jury? There's been a lot of testimony about these photos and prosecutors are trying to make the case that Lindsey Plancy's suicide attempt was over dramatized. So this goes directly to prosecutor's attempts to show the jury that Lindsey was in her right mind. That she used a suicide as part of her plan? You know, some of the testimony the prosecutors have elicited. It's focused on calling the cuts that she made to herself superficial, implying that she didn't cut deep enough to actually kill herself. The defense, of course, pushed back on that, questioning the doctor's full recollection of Lindsey's injuries. And then also this week, prosecutors had elicited some testimony suggesting that Lindsey may be tongue or leaned from her second story window rather than actually jumping out of it. No, a reminder that is what led to her breaking her spine and ultimately the paralysis that she has today. Christina, this week, the jury's gained more insight into Lindsey's state of mind on those days leading up to the death by going through her journal. In it, she wrote about everything from financial guilt to the difficulties of raising her children to her worries about returning to work. in court we actually heard excerpts of some of those journal entries that were read aloud and let's play some of these first and entry that was read to the jury by one of the prosecutors at Shannon Buckingham and then won by Lindsay's defense attorney Kevin Reddington. That page reads it's like I'm so desperate to get a mental break from taking care of everyone that my mind is trying to make something physically wrong with me recall reviewing that in the journal. Yes. I'm completely overwhelmed trying to take care of the three kids I feel like I'm drowning every day again another page that's not dated. Correct. At some point there are some dated pages in this journal, fair to say, right? Yes. And there's one on November 18th and November 18th that page reads it's like I'm so desperate to get a mental break from taking care of everyone that my mind is trying to make something physically wrong with me recall reviewing that in the journal. Yes. Christina didn't the defense also made some references to her mental state at the time. Let's play that exchange here. She wrote I have crazy brain fog. I feel like I can't make a plan. I can't carry it out like I just live moment to moment waiting for the next nap time. I'm terrified of Cal getting over tired now because I feel I can't help him. She wrote that right. Correct. She then wrote I'm really worried about going back to work and not being able to function with the brain fog. I feel like I should start with a four hour shift and see how I do. I can't tell if I am withdrawing from Adivan and Benadryl or is this my new baseline. I feel completely disconnected with my baby. I feel like I'm going through the motions every day. Correct. Christina, it appears that both sides both the prosecution and the defense are using these same entries to make their case. How do you think this could aid or hurt the defense's argument? At the end of the day it really depends on how the jury interpret these notes that Lindsey wrote. So prosecutor say Lindsey was so overwhelmed that she just wanted out of her life completely and that she was allegedly so controlling that she wanted to take her children with her. So will the jury believe that from hearing these journal entries? Or will they believe the defense is interpretation that Lindsey was struggling with severe postpartum anxiety and depression and that she was making every effort to get help and be there for her family until she snapped one day. We've heard through the trial from many professionals who speak about Lindsey from a very clinical outsider's perspective, but then this week we got more of a sense of who the Clancy family was from inside the home. On Wednesday of this week we actually heard from Clancy's family's former nanny. I want to play some of her testimony. Did you come to find out that Lindsey was having some issues? I did. Did she talk to you about that? She did. And what did she tell you about her issues? She shared with me that she was suffering from postpartum. Now when she shared this information with you, had you noticed anything different about her demeanor or her presentation around the house? I didn't at all. I observed a wonderful mom who loved her kids who was she was very concerned with their safety. She was very concerned with gallons eating and sleeping. She was a wonderful mother. So according to the testimony, nanny took care of the kids between September and December of 2022, just about a month before the deaths of those kids. And on the stand, she spoke about the kids' personality and Lindsey's parenting. During that testimony, Lindsey seemed to be very emotional. Yeah, it actually looked like Lindsey was crying throughout this testimony. She had her head in her hands and you could see her shoulders shaking and she was pulling tissues to wipe her eyes. And she specifically became visibly emotional when a very short video that the nanny had taken of baby Callan drinking a bottle played on the evidence TV. I can't imagine what was going through her head at that moment to hear all these kinds of things about herself and the kids. You know, I wasn't in the courtroom. I'm watching, you know, through the TV. And the camera shows Lindsey after. Well, it's actually right after the nanny had said something wonderful about her parenting. And it didn't look like Lindsey was even looking at her. And I was a little surprised by that. It looked like she was looking down because it was very sweet testimony from this woman who was a nanny who said she loved Lindsay. She said that quoted. She said, I loved Lindsey. I think at that point, the video of the baby had already played and there had already been some descriptions of the children's personalities and also Lindsey as a mother. And Lindsey seems to have already kind of gotten emotional and had her face in her hands. So you're right that at that point, she didn't look back up. This was near the end of the nanny testimony. And again, Christina, I can't see what's going on in the courtroom. You can. And I was curious, it doesn't look like she is participating very much in her own defense. Am I just not able to see it? No, you're correct. Every now and then her lawyer will ask her a question. But she certainly is just there listening, often crying, often looking down. When the more technical testimonies happening, she tends to watch the witness and actually look. But you certainly in the courtroom, don't see her strategizing or contributing or offering information to her lawyer throughout the course of testimony. And then just one other question about her, you know, you and I have both sat through a lot of trials. I have never seen a defendant cry or seem as visibly upset by the evidence, even refusing to look at things. Do you see the same thing? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly unusual. But at the same time, isn't that part of the unique nature of this case? You know, you have a defendant here, Lindsey Clancy, whose lawyer says she admits what happened. She admits what she did. So I think that that brings a whole new layer of emotion into the case. You know, she claims that she had a postpartum psychosis episode when this happened. So if now, she's in her right state of mind, you might expect to see those emotion. So on Tuesday, we also heard from over a half dozen forensic scientists at the Massachusetts State Police Crime Lab. The prosecution and defense asked about, of course, the medications in Lindsey's system that night. They talked about the blood that was found on the knife that she used to cut herself. And then it was interesting, the blood spatters that were found on the interior and exterior of the Clancy home. I just want to play a bit of their back and forth here, because you're going to hear from both the prosecution and then the defense. And French Council asked you about the redbound stains on the windowsill, the one on the exterior, the interior, and asked if it could be from someone leaning out the window, breath. Correct. It also be from someone hanging out the window holding on them in those spots. Correct. When they be drops and you know, if somebody was bleeding significantly from cuts on their wrist to the extent that one of the marks on the shingle, you said had a grip on it, right? So depending on the amount of blood, where that contact is coming into place is what is deposited? So if somebody was going to climb out the window and hang on the ledge, and then what like to do a spider man and go down the side of the shingles, they would leave a smear going all the way down on the shingles, wouldn't they? If they came in contact the entire way down, yes, there would be a transfer all the way down. What does that appear Christina that the prosecution is trying to do with these, you know, blood stains on the windowsill and outside the house? I think this is more of the prosecution questioning the validity of Lindsay's suicide attempt, which you had spoken about. In the courtroom, you could really sense Kevin Reddington's frustration with this line of questioning as we just put him in that Spider-Man reference there. Well, I want to make another point here because I've really noticed it during this trial. It's pretty clear so far that the defense attorney is not waiting to put on his case. You know, I have seen examples over and over again of Kevin Reddington using cross examination to make some pretty strong points for the defense. I want you to listen to another example of this in this clip. Do you recall collecting the knife? Yes. Why would you collect the knife as part of the crime scene response? Are you excuse me? There's no objection to any of this physical evidence. I'm going to allow this line of inquiry just to kind of put things in perspective. I mean, Christina, you hear him insert time and time again, um, points that he wants to make that you hear him at times saying that Lindsay, how, how ill Lindsay was when she got to the hospital, he sounds so frustrated at times. Where do you think this tension is coming from? Is this real? a law is this just a, you know, a defense ploy? - It could be both, to be fair. The feeling has been a theme of the trial. Lucy's defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, he had actually offered before the trial even started to stipulate that she admits to killing her kids in the exact manner that prosecutors claimed that she did. In return, he wanted this trial focused only on her criminal responsibility and her mental health issues. Now, at the time, prosecutors actually objected to that idea and the judge ruled against it, meaning that we're seeing what we're seeing now. Prosecutors are still putting on a case where they're proving every little detail in evidence about the actual murders, despite the fact that Lindsey Clancy has more or less confessed to them. And I think that's why you can see her lawyer getting frustrated as certain testimony comes up. But our legal analyst have also said it could be a little bit of grandstanding for him to kind of play to the jury. - So at the end of last week, the trial was actually brought outside the courtroom. Members of the jury were taken to three locations that were crucial to the events of January 24th, 2023. First, they were taken to the CVS where Lindsey's husband Patrick picked up meds for Cora, then the restaurant where he got the takeout. And then lastly, the jury was taken to the site of the killings, the Clancy family home. Again, we've been talking about cases you've covered. Is this kind of typical for a trial? And why do you think it was so important for the jury to actually go to the scene of these deaths? - Yes, so they call it a jury view and it actually is very typical in a criminal cases like this. So the judge takes the jurors to view the premises or the property related to the case. When they're there, the prosecution may point out the essential features of the location, you know, just where things are located, certain rooms, but no comment or discussion is allowed in that time. There are no witnesses who are heard and jurors are not allowed to ask any questions or even discuss amongst themselves. And the presence of the defendant into the criminal case, that's left to the judge's discretion. So in this instance, Lindsey was not present because according to her attorney, she chose not to be just because of her paralysis, she's wheelchair-bound. It was just too much to plan logistically to get her to all three locations, but observations that are made by the jury and the judge on a view may be used by the jury, the finder of fact, when they start making a decision in this case. In this case, it was interesting 'cause the current owners of the Ducksbury home, a new family, they didn't want jurors allowed inside the property, but last week Judge William Sullivan, who's overseeing this case, he ordered them to allow access to the premises for the purposes of the view. So in this case, three groups of six or 18 jurors were taken inside the home, one group at a time. There were given specific instructions, you know, not to touch anything, not to open any drawers, but part of that is just being able to see the context of where an event happened. You know, it's all described in court, but then when jurors get to see it for themselves, it kind of puts things in perspective for them. In particular, in this case, going to the other two locations, not just the house, a big part of the testimony has been about the amount of time that Lindsay spent at home alone with the kids who allegedly commit these crimes. And the reason that the jury is able to experience that is by taking the same journey the Patrick Clancy did. You know, going to CVS, going to the take-up restaurant, and going back to the house. That's the exact route that he took that night. But Aaron, I'm very curious in your experience, covering murder trials, how often have you come across, your reviews like this? And how do you think they helped the prosecution? - Well, I haven't seen it very often. I think I've only seen a jury go to the scene of a crime one time, and that actually surprises me. Because if you look at this specific case, I think the jurors are going to be really interested, interested since there is a difference. The prosecution is saying that she carefully planned to go out the window while the defense is saying she threw herself out the window. I think the jurors would want to actually see the home. And I think it often puts the crime scene or the death scene in context. - And in perfective in this case, right? I mean, they've seen pictures of the window on the back of the house, and they've been told how high it is off the ground, but to see it in person is certainly different. - What are you expecting to come out of, you know, the rest of this week and the coming weeks? - So of course, more of the trial is going to have to focus on Lindsey Flandsey's state of mind. We have to hear from the doctors and nurse practitioners who've treated her for psychiatric issues before the murders, and then also some additional providers who continue to treat her after the murders happened. That has yet to happen. And the defense attorney actually told me that he doesn't know for sure if prosecutors are going to call in a psychiatrist from before the children's death. But if they don't, he will. - Well, because don't you expect the defense to kind of put the medical profession on trial as well? - Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's really the central argument of the defense in this case. Is that Lindsey was so overmedicated that she experienced psychosis? - We look forward to covering this in our next episode on the trial. Christina, thank you. We're very grateful that you could join us this week to share your experiences inside that courtroom. I've been thinking about this because even though this trial has been so hard to watch, everyone I know has been talking about it. And I feel the people have become really invested in this case, and the reason why might just be because as you mentioned at the very beginning, it is so rare for a mother to kill her children. It is so rare that we actually remember the names of other mothers like Andrea Yates and Texas who killed her five children. And yet, here we are back again. - I actually had a conversation about this week. I covered another case here in Massachusetts. It was on Christmas day several years ago where a mother threw her two children off of a garage roof and then jumped into her own life. So something that would never go on trial because she died in that suicide attempt. But when you hear a case like this, they're so rare, but it's really hard to hear it and not immediately think of other similar situations. - And I'm hoping that this makes people talk about this issue. I think that is one of the best reasons for putting a trial like this on television and talking about it is to let other people know that there is help. - Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right if there can be any silver lining in a case this horrific, maybe the conversation around mental health is it? - Thanks again, Christine. I really appreciate it. - Thank you. - Now, we want to take this opportunity to say that if you or someone you know may be experiencing a mental health crisis, please contact the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Just call or text 988. And if you're pregnant or you've just had a baby, you can dial or text the National Maternal Mental Health Hotline at 1-833-TLC-MAMA-M-A-M-A. And we'll be back next week with another episode of Case by Case. Be sure to rate and review and let us know which cases you're following and which cases you'd like us to follow. - Sunday, it's an NFL on CBS double header. First, Bryce Young leaps the surprise in Carolina Panthers into Philly to take on the Eagles. Then it's a showdown in the desert. Kirk, cousins and the Raiders need to get back on track, but the tech is stacked as Josh Allen and the bills roll into town. - Oh my goodness, touchdown! - JP and the NFL today threw, break it all down. With MoonEastern on the road, live from Las Vegas. See you Sunday with the NFL on CBS and streaming on Paramount Plus.