Inside Harvard Rowing: Coach Tom Siddall

Speaker 1 It's a super competitive group, so everybody wants to win and it's tough to sometimes stop thinking about trying to win, right? But I think you can only control so much. And so when we give them something specific to, to be consistent with or, or to improve, right, we can really measure that. And if we've we've done that, then I think we've been pretty successful. Speaker 2 Hello and welcome back to the Crew Connection Podcast. Today we are joined by Harvard assistant coach and recruiting coordinator, Tom Siddell. Tom, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining in a busy week as you prepare for the Eastern Sprints. Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. No thanks for having me. It's been a pretty good run this year, honestly. We've got a lot of guys that have returned, especially near the top of the program. We've got a bunch of seniors in the varsity 8 this year that have that have been there for the last few. So excited to see what those guys can do as we near the end of the season. Speaker 2 As you were saying, a lot of your athletes are busy studying for their finals. And then also it's tuning up for the sort of for you guys, the start of three big races, which is the Eastern Sprints, the IRAS, and then the Yale Harbour Boat Race. So how are you feeling going into Worcester? Seems like the the the field this year just seems so deep compared to any year I've seen it, which makes makes the heats and the finals just going to be an absolute bomb burner. And I'm commentating so it's going to be a tricky job for me. Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. No, it's been really good racing this spring and I'm, I'm you guys follow along a bit with the rankings, especially as you're preparing for your commentary this weekend. But you know, people up, down, all over the place changing week to week. It's actually been a really exciting season and I think I think for us, it's been pretty cool to see. You know, we start down in Florida with a big race against some top competition and it's always exciting if you do well, but you also know there's a ton of season left. So I think, you know, we kind of kick things off down there and then progress through the dual season. Now we've just got to get through exams and then on to Worcester this weekend and line up against most of those people from Florida, plus a few more strong crews. So yeah, really excited. Everyone's really excited. Speaker 3 Yeah, and you've had an amazing season so far. You've set the course record against Northeastern. What was that last week, last Tuesday? So that was amazing to see. So that must give you a lot of momentum coming into Eastern Springs. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think the guys are excited about it in the varsity. You know, it's sort of a perfect storm, right? It was a great competition, some good wind, a great day for it. You know, nobody was on the course. There's no no wakes in the base in that day. So I think a lot of great things, but especially, you know, preparation from the varsity guys. I think I think that really led to the result. And I think maybe the coolest thing that that I observed was they had this great race. They set the record, but then it's sort of on to the next and and keep preparing. So I don't think anyone sort of thinks that that day as as the highlight of the season. They're they're ready for the Championship side. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, everyone starts level on the start line of the Eastern Sprint. So seedings being something for for a little bit, but ultimately it's it's what you can do on the day. And for people who who don't know, Eastern Sprints is a one day regatta. So you've got to, you've got to do your, your heats and then you go on to your finals later that day. So I mean, you've, you've been at Harvard for three, three seasons now. How, how have you seen the team grow and and develop and evolve since since you've been? Speaker 1 With the pro, yeah, well, it's been great. I I mean, First off, I just feel really lucky to be involved. It's been a great run. And I sort of came in halfway through a year. And so in some ways, I guess this is my third full year, 4th spring and it's kind of amazing how fast that that time has passed. But I think in terms of the team and how it's evolved, that first year we had some unbelievable guys that are continuing to do some some really impressive things on the Olympic senior level. And and it's kind of just kept on going. And, you know, I think maybe specifically to highlight the guys that are currently seniors, they've really just set a great standard that my first year they were in the JV that won Eastern Sprints, most of them, and then have essentially spent about three years in the varsity year between the 1st and 2nd boats. So I think in terms of just leadership, you know, standard, you know, in, in terms of training, in terms of, you know, technical rowing, endurance, they've done a really nice job. And I think a lot of the guys that have come in behind them have have really benefited and learned from that. Groups. Yeah, it's it's kind of feels like I wouldn't say a culmination, right? It never really ends. Like we have some really, really great guys that are racing in the upper boats that are freshmen and and sophomores. But but it is kind of cool to see this sort of first era for me, you know, this first four year chunk of guys progressing through the system here at Harvard. Speaker 3 Yeah, it's amazing. And like you said, there's a lot of seniors that have been in the varsity for three years now and then you've got a lot of young talent coming into the program as well. How do you go about integrating those guys within that wider group? Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, it's we're super lucky, right? These guys come in, they're motivated, they're smart, they're they're psyched about Harvard and about racing. And, and I think, you know, Charlie and Pat that, you know, our head coach and associate head coach, they do a great job just setting up a system where ice integrate and integrate slowly. You know, it's not like 4 weeks in for head of the Charles. It's full on selection for the for the varsity. And now it's decided for the rest of the year, right? Like, I think it's pretty open minded. One thing we often do is actually row of freshman 8 for for the Charles, which you know, I know, as you guys know, has kind of gone by the wayside a little bit besides maybe maybe Cal and Washington with some of the freshmen racing. But that that's always a blast race too many of the eyes. We sort of have a first and second eight in the champ category. And then usually our third entry is, is most of the freshmen. And so they they just have a blast with it, you know, really sort of bond as a class. And then I think from there it opens up a little bit and we do some small boat racing and trialing and that sort of thing. And then the the depth chart starts to take a little bit of shape. Speaker 2 Yeah, I've I've always missed the freshman. I think that's one of the things I wish I'd of hadn't. And Jack always refers to his fond memories of racing, racing the freshman night all the way through to what was PAC twelves in in in his in his era. But yeah, I think bring it, bring it back, I'd say. But we've got to got to have a petition to do that. I mean, I guess at Harvard, you have probably so many different recruit, so many different people doing such interesting different things throughout the university. But what would you say is like 1 character trait that sort of would define like a Harvard oarsman and that all of them have in common? Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, when people ask this, especially on the recruiting side, the thing that always comes to mind for me is, you know, they're they're really into rowing, right? They want to, they want to row at an elite level that they want to do school at some area of focus at an elite level. And then I would say finally, they're have a third thing that they're really interested in. And so whether that's a club on campus, that's a, you know, group that they're they're working with, whether that's music or art, I think that sort of three points is, is what really describes the group. And so they're down to the boathouse twice a day. They're in classes between that and then either in the evening or throughout the day, they're fitting in time on this third thing. And, and I think it just makes for a a really exciting group, right. And the conversation to hear around Newell are are always pretty interesting. Speaker 3 Yeah. And I think that's the beauty of such a team that's so international as well, because you have such a wide range of experiences and views that then all come together on one team, team. And then the obviously that goal of working really hard together to one, one goal. But have you seen that sort of shift or change at all while you've been at Harvard? Has there been a different emphasis? Because I know with each year there's a new group that comes in and that can change the identity of a program quite significant. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, maybe a little bit. I mean, but I think it's such a ebb and blow sort of feel thing that that's evolving. And you know, I think for the guys, you know, maybe what characterizes the last few years has just been a lot of training. You know, I think that's that's definitely one element. And, you know, I think some sessions that were maybe small boats or sort of optional small boats, you know, have, you know, not that they're required, but you just, there's a lot of guys there, right. And, and if they're not in the small boats, they're on the bike or they're on the, the concept too, or the RP3. And so I think that the guys that are especially in that senior class, you know, have set up a lot of that. And, you know, I think it's, it's paying off for them, you know, not only at Harvard, but also, you know, I'm under 23 and, and you know, starting to be some of the senior selection as well. Speaker 2 How does that sort of be a small boat work fit into your the program? Because I think one thing I always see with athletes coming back from EU s s, I'm going for Olympic teams or national teams, is they're super well prepared for the big boats. And they have exceptional boat fit and falls and eights and they're really, really strong and bringing a lot to the table bad. But sometimes it's the pairs that need a bit more support and they need a bit more time. How does how does that fit into your your training ethos? Speaker 1 Yeah, I would I would say it's a huge aspect and I think as part of the recruiting process, not that we necessarily sell it, but I think it's something that, you know, guys that are racing in small books is is something that's really exciting to that. You know, I think all of that stems from Charlie, but our our head coach and you know, he's he's sort of a multi time, you know, pick small book coach, you know, taking pairs and singles and double s to that level. And I think people come in and say, Hey, like I, I already rode the single or I want to row the single or I know the pair is going to be a big part of selection in whatever country I'm from. And you know, this is a place I can go and get better at it. And I would say, you know, usually at least twice a week guys are out in small boats, whether that's on their own or, you know, as part of the structure training. Speaker 3 Many teams have captains and each team kind of works slightly differently. The team captain can sometimes build a lot of the ethos and drive a lot of the ethos. I know at Yale there were different roles for each athlete. Is there similar roles there at Harvard? Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, we have about 3 that are kind of generally accepted and and the captain is sort of the main one and you know, we work very closely with him. It's, it's actually Ben Scott this year, who's from Australia, the stroke of the 8 for the last few years at Harvard and the Australian 23/8. So we worked very closely with him. And then there's sort of, you know, two other major roles. And those two roles are, are sort of passed down year over year. And, and one kind of manages the, I guess what you say is like the, the disciplinary side, right? Like are we upholding the values, the traditions? And then the other one organizes some of the, the social stuff and you know, hey, who, who orders the house and, you know, all this kind of stuff. Speaker 2 I was the disciplinary role of, yeah, actually my senior. There's a lot of differences between the programs, but there's probably more similarities in people than. Speaker 1 Absolutely. Yeah, it's an important role too. Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, so for most people, but the IRA is the end of the season and that's like the pinnacle. And I think for Harvard and Yale that is still such an important focal point of the year. But for these fortunate schools, there is the boat race, which happens a week afterwards. How do you guys think about factoring like longer distance for like a four mile or three mile or two mile in the in the B2V3D versus training for a 2 kilometer race at the the IRA in the Eastern Sprint? Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a great question. I think it probably changes on a yearly basis, honestly. But I would say loosely to describe it, I think we stay in touch with longer distances just throughout the year, even even come the spring. And we've been lucky in the last few years that there's been a few gaps in the schedule just the way things have worked out. So for example, with the the race in Florida now in Sarasota, we actually contest the Stein Cup with Brown down there. And so it's freed up a weekend are sort of the second end of April where that race was was normally held. And so you know, just as a specific example, you know, that weekend will often do 4 miles or three miles or whatever it is. So I think you see some of those trials and some of that training mixed in throughout the spring season. And, you know, I think hopefully it prepares us for the end of the year with with Yale and then, you know, hopefully a strong second-half of a 2K as well. Speaker 3 Was someone like me from Cal who hasn't done, you know, a longer distance race at the end of the season, was it like preparing for that? You know, I know Sholto's told me a lot about his time at Gilda Boathouse and the traditions they have at Yale. But what's that preparation like for your team? Is it, do you do anything differently in terms of where you live, how you train, those kind of things? Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we're, we're down, we have a, a campus down in New London that's called Red top and it's sort of the, the historic base or Harvard, Yale race on the Harvard side of that camp. And so it's, it's a great set up. You know, I think that the guys feel pretty strongly about keeping some of it secret. But you can imagine all the basics are there, right, with the food, the housing and some places to, to play some games and then maybe most importantly, train really hard. So we're we're super, super lucky to have that and, and have it be supported by the school and the alumni. And then I think in terms of the training, you know, it's, it's on, you know, use that space a little bit less, just given the proximity of the races at the end of the year. I think when the Harvard academic schedule was a bit different, I think it was maybe 1012 years ago, there's actually a much longer window to be down there and train. And so I guess, you know, just given the way the schedule works now, it's a bit of a shorter window, but I think it's probably something that every guy in the team and especially the freshmen that are getting ready to experience it for the first time is really, you know, excited about and, and anticipating for most of the year. Speaker 2 It sort of feels like summer camp for for college brothers, almost like you have this, you step away from campus, you've left all the the academic stress behind. It's time for to be with with the teams. And what makes it also quite interesting, exciting is there's a big summer running base right next door to in New London. So you're growing along and you see these Subs come up and down and it's yeah, it's interesting, interesting element. And it's definitely a good course. But it you definitely either wind can pick up and it can get quite quite ferocious. One other interesting thing is there's a big rock which the winner of the race the year before gets to paint in their colors. So you can see which is sort of right opposite red top and also opposite Gals ferry. So at the moment, the rock rock is is with with big H on it because you guys had a good streak before we carry on. If you're serious about rowing in the US, there's a link in our Spotify description to join our mail list. We send practical recruiting tips, articles we've written and coach insights. We will also show you future podcast episodes and get early access to all our events. All right, let's get back to that. So what? What are some of the biggest myths about rowing at Harvard but maybe aren't true? But then maybe also, what are some of the things that surprise freshmen and surprise recruits when they do visit that they didn't think about before before, like learning more about Harvard? Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a good question. I think maybe when it comes to the myths, what I would say is I think a question I get very often it, you know, you hear the name and you think the academics are going to be just ungodly. You know, when it comes to the how challenging the academics are. And, and I don't by any means, especially as someone that, that didn't go to school here, I mean to say it's easy, but I do think there's, there's sort of a path for everyone. And there's an element of probably getting accepted is more challenging than, you know, managing the system once you're once you're there. And so I think that's, that's if that, you know, people are asking or sort of curious about. And and I think in the process, especially for people that, you know, maybe aren't coming from areas where there's a lot of people in their school or a country or hometown that are, that are coming to Harvard or the rest of the Ivy League. Sometimes just hearing that name, it's like, oh, man, even if I get in, you know, I'll never be able to row in an elite level. I'll just be crushed, you know, underneath the books, the entire process. And I think that's probably probably a myth that, you know, are there really challenging courses? Definitely. But I think the more exciting thing about the campus here is you can explore so many different things. You know, whatever you're excited about, whatever you're interested in, there's a path and, and there's just so much support up on campus, you know, right behind me that people want to see you succeed and, and help you through it. So I think that that's probably the biggest myth. I would say, I know that's not completely rowing related, but probably probably applicable. And then I think in terms of the things that people maybe, you know, they show up here, they come on the official visit or they do a tour for the first time. And it's kind of like, Oh, that's not quite what I thought is, is probably just the proximity of Newell to campus. So, you know, just just behind me through the windows here is I'm looking at the Charles River and every athlete at Harvard crosses the Charles River to to go compete in athletics. So it's walking distance, biking distance nowadays, scooter distance to get to all the feuds, the courts, the training environment. And we're sort of right there. And, you know, across the street is where everyone lives and goes to school and eats. And so I think what that does for us is creates a really sort of approachable environment where you can pursue anything you're interested on campus. You can have that third thing, right, whether that's social or club life or whatever it is that and, and then you can also row at an elite level and you know, beyond the water twice a day. And I think, I think that really goes a long way with with a lot of people. Speaker 3 Yeah, and I think that's such a an amazing pool as well. The fact that you're open to athletes doing a third thing outside of rowing and studying. That's really great to hear. Just a quick question, do you have many WAR cons compared to recruited athletes at Harvard? How does that work? If someone gets into the university without your support, then can they come and join the team later on? Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. That's AI feel like a really, really long standing tradition here at Harvard and you know with all the teams, but definitely with the heavyweight guys that I that I work with and I think that's that tradition. We sort of continue it to pull one is keeping a really wide audience as part of the recruiting process. And I think, you know, even four years in or so of trying to do this and take out a little more responsibility and figure out the whole system, you still don't always know exactly who's get in. And so many people are interested in being here, which is super exciting. And and they apply and, you know, very often they they get accepted, you know, and whether that's Coxon's or rowers, and then we're psyched to have those people out right. Like, you know, if we can take 8910 people a year, whatever it is on the recruiting front to have a few more that get in on their own is is always great. So I think wide net in terms of recruiting a competition and, and pool, you know, we see a lot of walk ONS that way. And then secondly, I would say those that get accepted, you know, that we haven't been in touch with or want to try rowing for the the first time out on campus and you know. Probably in the last few years it tends to be a few more or a little bit more coxen based than rower based. But I would say, you know, we we have sort of a tryout process that we run over here in the stadium on the urge, you know, where the run around the river and and it's some great athletes that that played sports in high school that that come out and have an impact. And and you know, for example, there we've got a guy in the four V now bousey to the four V that walked on his freshman year. And you know, he'll, he'll race in the Harvard EO race at the end of this year, which is pretty exciting for the first. Speaker 2 Time yeah it's it's really inspiring to see see those athletes and they bring so much tenacity from from the other sports and in almost it gives that extra bit of meaning to the team as well because everyone joins in and supporting them through that process of learning to row and and and getting getting up to speed. So I think work on culture is is is fantastic, but looking at sort of the recruiting process, what what are some of the first things that you notice when an athlete reaches out to you? Good. Speaker 1 Question, I think so much of it is done via e-mail and then also I'm sure you guys come across too, but also Instagram today. So people kind of send through a message and I think what stands out to me is when it's pretty well wrapped up, right, like pretty well written and they've got all the key facts in there. And it's sort of like, all right, you know, what's your background? What's your experience? Where are you from? How tall are you? How strong are you? How are your academics and, and kind of why are you interested in this? I think through the stuff you guys are doing as well as you know just we're getting around, I think people have have started to do a really nice job with that and and are putting together some really sort of succinct and thoughtful messages and it just really kicks off the process on the right foot. Speaker 2 Is there an ideal time when you want athletes to to reach out to you? Speaker 1 Yeah, I think for us, you know, early is always better than better. But I think we we try to stay super open minded, but you definitely do get some, you know, some serious interests sort of end of sophomore year as that process gets going. You know that June 15th date, you know there's a, there's a lot of emails that come through on that day. Speaker 3 Yeah, I can imagine. And what separates someone who might be sort of off the radar that then maybe comes on the radar. What? What do you look for in an athlete beyond sort of UK high? Wait, is there anything you really look for in terms of personality? Speaker 1 I think for us, what we found is there, there's so many people out there, right? And there's so many people that are interested sort of what you're looking for is who's who's really consistent with this, right? And I think probably for you guys as as well as myself, like when it comes to training, when it comes to racing, like all this kind of stuff, consistency plays a huge role. And I think that's a key piece of the recruiting process as well. And, you know, you just never know who's going to throw or, you know, switch over to, to sculling or, you know, have a big go on the urge or, or what, you know, whatever it might be. And so I think just having a, a base of knowledge on that person and, you know, they're super consistent in their communication. They're super consistent in, you know, their output and their excitement about your, your school, your program. I think that that definitely goes a long way. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think it's important to realize that it's not, it's the athlete you're going to develop into because athletes, especially young men from the age of 17 through to 2122 are going to going to step on so much. And that's your, your job is the hard job figuring out who reading the future. And I mean, I guess the obvious one is, is Ugg scores. What sort of Ugg scores do you look for as a benchmark to start to figure out your class? Speaker 1 Yeah, I think for us, I know I'm saying this a lot, but we, we stay super open minded up until kind of the summer before senior year. And I think at that point and maybe that's a mistake, right? It's a lot of emails and a lot of people to talk to, but I think like, you know, we don't really put any limits on the process until around June, you know, so next month or so. And I think at that point, you know, we have a pretty descriptive e-mail we send people and sort of say, Hey, these are our standards. This is what we're looking for. And I think on that list, you know, June of your junior year or your or your second to last year of school, I think we're looking for, you know, approximately 615 and below on the on the concept too. I think that, you know, cuts the group down from from hundreds to maybe 5075, right? And that that I think is way more manageable to try to parse through. And so we try to message that out really consistently. You know, as soon as people get in touch through to about that point where we're going to reduce our numbers, we try to say like, hey, we're looking for, you know, small boat results. We're looking for national and international racing and we're looking for, for about 6:15 and below in addition to the academic side and, and sort of standardized testing side. So I think again, like it doesn't matter where people start, but I think they're really consistent. They stay in touch and it's just amazing. Every year, you know, the, the first e-mail you get is 635 and June before senior year is, is 612, right? So we, we, we don't cut anybody out of the process. Speaker 3 Early on, and we've got quite into this idea of like Moneyball, like how can you see maybe someone's potential in some metrics that maybe other people aren't looking at? And we spoke with Rufus Pigs about this quite a lot. But is there something that you look for signs in an athlete that show they will continue to grow over 4 years? Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that's a tough one. You know, I've definitely done it wrong and and, you know, have have missed. But I think in a lot of ways, what stands out to me is people that seek out opportunities. And I think the messages you get where people are like, oh, I didn't get this, or I didn't get that, or my coach did this or my team did that, and then they're not moving on. I think that's sort of worst case scenario, right? And I think the people that generally succeed are, Hey, you know, I went to this club for, for my offseason or, you know, I am renting a single and I'm traveling around to go race. Or, hey, you know, I've, I've got a bit of time at my grandparents house down in Florida where it's warm and I'm training down there. And I think a lot of those things where people are seeking out opportunities, it seems that success follows that, you know, the more opportunities you get, the more time racing, the more time training. I think that that generally seems to fall into place, or or at least has in in a lot of scenarios. Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, that's right. And often, like looking looking back and all the people in rowing who are successful, just the ones who just keep going and just keep going, mate. You get knocked down, you keep going. Or maybe you don't get an official visit you, you take gap year, you keep going, you work hard, you keep reaching out. And I can think of countless people just refuse to say accept no as an answer. And they're the ones who stick out and talent, Yeah, talented rowers come and go. But the ones who are just in it for the long time are the ones love it, are the ones who, who, who stick, who stick and, and maybe reach the podium. And there's a few people who who are saying, I could have done that, but could have, could have, would have, should have. You got to got to do the work. Speaker 1 Totally, totally. Speaker 2 Do you, how do you decide you have this group of sort of, let's say 70 people who are hitting the Uggs course. How does that group get whittled down more into who might be coming on an official visit or who will be going through the the pre read process? Speaker 1 Yeah, I think part of that is trajectory to that Earth sport. I would say that the second thing we look at is international and national race results as well in tracking some of that, you know, video footage. And it just seems like there's so many more opportunities nowadays to get out there and race and, and do well in all different boat classes. And so I think, you know, some, some, if that stand out like, you know, the GB system is obviously, you know, very well organized, polished, right. And you can see guys move through that, you know, if they're doing well at this trials and on to this one and into the pairs and then to the crew selection, like you can kind of follow along with that. And so I think those, those play a huge role. And we try not to get too stuck on the yard, just use it as a sort of a measuring stick and, and at some point a cut off, right, Because you, you have more people than you can take that are hitting that erg and are in our racing at a high level nationally and internationally. You know, we, we try to bring people in and have a little bit of an understanding where they are. But you know, maybe to, to go back to our conversation about small boats and training, like I think we're, you only get so many people every year. And so you're trying to develop those people and, and see how far they can go and, and whatever boat they land in is whatever boat they land in. But I think we're pretty focused on like, all right, these are the 1012 guys in this class and let's, let's see how far we can take it. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think you, the recruiting process is a long, long period in the amount of emails that you're sending and the amount of calls you're probably having with athletes, you're really getting to know them before they get off at a spot or before that they're coming on an official visit. So it's, it's a lot of lot of due diligence, a lot of character reading, but goes into your role, which which probably makes it so interesting because you get to meet so many young, excited, excited people. One, one question we always get is pairing official visits, because I think a lot of athletes have this worry. But if they are going on an official visit at one school and then they're going on an official visit, Harvard, then Princeton, then Yale, then Brown, they don't want to almost hurt the feelings of the recruiting coaches and they want to almost pretend, Oh, this is my top choice. And that's like an era that probably affected me when I was getting recruited, but also effects a lot of people. So I guess it's sort of a myth that would be good to, to talk about because I, I mean, I, I know that you, you're probably very good friends with all those coaches and you talk. So it's not your heads, not a big deal to, to pair those visits. How do you see it from your side? Speaker 1 Yeah, I I think you're spot on with that. I think we, we all know that's, that's part of the game. And there's a lot of every August it's, it's just e-mail chains with all, all those schools, you know, working through the, the itinerary and the dates. And we, we obviously appreciate people being really interested in Harvard and maybe it's their top choice. But I think how could we ever be selfish enough to think that, you know, this is their only choice, right? And, and I think in a lot ways, like we want to make sure, you know, if we've gotten to this point where they're coming unofficial, that's probably one of our top 30 people. And if you're one of our top 30 people, we've we've spent some time, we've gotten to know you. And by no means do you want anyone to to suffer or not have an option, right? If it doesn't work out here, I think we're, we're, we're very kind of keen to have people out and, and explore all those schools. And then, you know, especially land on Harvard at the end of that. I feel like that's even better, right? Like I've explored all the options and now I'm like 100% sure that this is the place I want to be. Speaker 3 And is there anything you'd like to show recruits on an official visit that really embodies what the Harvard spirit is? Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, practice is key, right. And then also I think the guys on our team just do a great job. Like I think we it's actually very athlete driven that, you know, are involved with. We're helping plan. We have some meetings with the the athlete and their parents, if their parents attend, you know, definitely and want to make sure they feel equipped and, you know, know all the information, you know, know, kind of where we stand, where they stand at the end of the visit. But I think so much of it, at least, at least for us and I, I imagine most places is super athlete driven. So you know, the host, that pairing, I think is really important and they take people around, show them campus, you know, show them all sort of the, the straight side of, oh, this is the best place for the bagels. This is the best place for coffee. Like I think that sort of personal connection and and sort of showing them like what would it be like to be here, right, as as simple as that sounds? Speaker 2 No, I think that's true because the coaches are really important in your relationship with your coach in college, but also your teammates. That's who you're going to be spending the most time with. You're going to be going to class with them. You'll be hanging out for that side of practice. You're going to be sweating them in practice and it's got to be a fit. And if if it's if it's not there and you're just deciding somewhere because you're and your parents think that's the right place for you, it's not, it's not going to be right. So that's why those official visits are super crucial. I mean, totally sort of taking a bit of a detour some people may not notice, but as not alongside Harvard you, you also coach with the US Paralympic team and have had awesome success developing that that project. How does this how does that sort of work and tell tell us a little bit more about your experience, some working with that group of athletes. Speaker 1 Yeah, Yeah. No, it's been a great run. Honestly, I feel like it compliments at the role here at Harvard and there's not too much sort of intrusion or, or overlap, which I think is good. That that for me has been sort of an ongoing thing since I guess even 2021. And sort of started with some of the strength training for the Tokyo boat and then worked a little bit on sort of like a consulting and recruiting role for the the para team. And, you know, in 2023 and then for Paris in 2024, actually coached the boat, the PR 3-4. And so, yeah, that was that was a blast. I think it's, it's a great group of athletes. And, you know, in the US, it's a very small group of athletes. And so it's it, it's just really fun, right? Like similar to how we develop our classes at Harvard and if these are our guys, we get a seat before they take it. I think it's a very, very similar system there. It's not you don't have 50 people and when you burn through one, there isn't necessarily somebody somebody else ready to take that spot. So you've got to maximize it. And then I guess maybe the second piece has just been sort of the, the telemetry rigging side has been really cool with that. There's two men and two women in the boat, and so sorting out how you're how you're going to make that thing go as as fast as possible has been a really cool project. So I feel like I've learned a lot there as well. Speaker 3 Well, you've been very successful as well. So has that coaching role shifted your perspective on how you coach at Harvard as well? Speaker 1 Yeah, I think, I think maybe a little bit, I think it's just, you know, these are people, right? And not to totally rehash the same thing again, but I think these are people and, and how far can we go? And yeah, we've, we've got to optimize, we've got to try stuff, we've got to experiment. We got to see what works and what doesn't work and, you know, keep moving on. And I think especially with para rowing, like there's, there's very clearly not like one-size-fits-all when it comes to race plan, when it comes to rigging and, and you've got to be flexible and adaptable. And, and I think probably some of that transfers over with with the Harvard team. Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. So looking ahead to the IRA, obviously the result is always to win and but beyond beyond the sort of the race result and where where you stack up, what is one thing that as a team you want to get out of that experience and come away being like that was the successful for our squad. Speaker 1 Yeah, I think for, for us and you know, I, I sort of specifically coached the third eight and the 4th 8 for, for most of the season. And for Harvard, Yale, and so at IRAS it's third eight and the four. But I think for for us and, and even across the team, I think we look a lot at consistency and at improvement, right? And so can we make sure that sort of our baseline racing, our baseline speed is, is consistent and, and even on sort of an off race, you know, are we still there in the mix? And so I think that as well as improvement, right, which is, OK, here's where we are. Can we pick a in, in X direction, right? Or with this one thing I think that allows us to, to sort of remove the result side of it a little bit and stay pretty focused on, you know, this is, this is the process, this is the idea, this is the thing we're working to be consistent on or the thing we're trying to improve. And if we improve that, then we've we've been successful. And and then I guess you know, obviously the results are, are in addition to that. And I to be honest, it's a super competitive group. So everybody wants to win and it's tough to sometimes stop thinking about trying to win, right? But I think you can only control so much. And so when we give them something specific to, to be consistent with or, or to improve, right, we can really measure that. And if we if we've done that, then I think we've been pretty successful. Speaker 3 Well, thanks, Tom. If anyone listening wants to find out more about Harvard or reach out to Tom, who's the international recruiter, you can go and fill out his questionnaire on his website or send him an e-mail. But thanks for coming on the podcast and really good luck for the races for the rest of the season. Speaker 1 Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you guys for having me on.