Inside Bordeaux: Wine, Terroir, and Emotional Experiences with Dominique Arangoits

- C'est vraiment important, du nom. Je t'ai revoir, je t'ai revoir, c'est vraiment important. Et il est en bas de la vérité, le man, le le fait de la fermée, il est en bas de la flotte de la flotte. - Sit back and grab a glass. It's wine talks with all kids. - Merci, c'est un croyab à l'expérience de ces matins ici à l' loft de Duclore. - Merci. - C'est un croyab. - C'est un croyab. - C'est un croyab. - C'est un croyab. - C'est un croyab. Je pense que je vais te parler d'anglais, parce que je n'ai pas de col et je suis très bien, et j'ai une petite question de la même chose. C'est un podcast pour un nouveau podcast, c'est le wine talks. Et ce que c'est pour les consommateurs qui ont été séduites par les châteaux de l'Ottawa et le france de Bordeaux, et c'est très bien pour être ici aujourd'hui. Il n'y a pas de chance de parler de vous, mais votre histoire, la châteaux de la history, ce qui va faire en Bordeaux, et on va nous couper tous ces choses, quand on est ici, mais il s'est dit que vous avez commencé à l'école et de Bordeaux. - Oui, vous allez être dans le wine business où vous êtes un son, vous vous pensez? - Non, mon grand-mère de l'enfant, un petit piece de vignard pour faire wine à l'école. - Oui, pour votre famille. - Oui, exactement. C'est tout. Puis j'ai fait agronomie studio dans Bordeaux, et en la dernière, il a l'opportunité de faire wine, et vignard de l'opinion de vignard. Et j'ai dit ça, et je me suis dit que ça peut être une passion de mon vie. - Oui, ça peut être une passion de mon vie. - Oui, oui. - Donc quand vous êtes un grand-mère de votre famille, mon grand-mère, il a dit que le wine, est-ce que vous êtes dans le monde et où vous êtes? - Oui, je suis faite dans le basque, au pays, que nous nous sommes en basque, et il n'y a pas de Spanish Bordeaux dans le montagne, et donc, je suis faite à 3 heures de Bordeaux, à un half-hour de Bordeaux, sur les studios. - Oui, donc, vous ne trouvez pas dans le salle de France, vous êtes à Bordeaux, qui est un très fameux université de la knowledge. - Exactement, après le school agronomie, il a dit que le Bordeaux-ciel en Sagrou, je suis venu dans un school de Bordeaux, qui est très fameux. - C'était très fameux. - Et donc, il était en 1992-1903. - Et c'est ça que quand Dominique a dit que, je pense que je veux être dans le business, c'est très passionné pour moi. - Oui, c'était très bon. - C'était très bon. - Et puis, vous allez au Salle de Bordeaux, et vous êtes en basque au Bordeaux, ou à ce que vous faites? - Non, après le studio, en fait, un ami, je suis en 1969, donc, à l'heure du boulangerie, nous nous sommes en basque, et nous sommes en basque, nous sommes en basque, en 1962, d'une arme dans le Civille, donc dans le pays French, nous nous sommes en basque au Bordeaux, et je n'ai pas besoin et j'étais très lucky pour avoir un touch avec l'accès à l'entreprise, qui a juste été venu en Angâri en 1992. - Wow! - Et je passais à l'heure, et je suis avec le team de Jean-Michel Caz, à la fois, et ce technique-là, en basque au Bordeaux, c'était en 1993. - Donc, il y a beaucoup de frères influence, et je ne sais pas, je sais pas quelques liens de 100, parce qu'on ne sait pas beaucoup d'Amérique, mais il y a beaucoup de frères influence et le pays en basque au Bordeaux, et le pays en basque au Bordeaux, - Oui, dans le rythme, plusieurs companies arrivent, qui ont été dans trois années, en début de la lune, - Donc, il y a un white wine, mais à l'angri Biccover, - Je ne sais pas, c'est pas un hôphe. - C'est un rythme. - C'est un rythme. - Donc, le taux de taille, c'est un rythme, ce que vous faites dans le winery? - En Tocca, il était un white maker, et aussi un manager est state. Et nous était. il était très capable de faire une nouvelle winery. - Une nouvelle winery. - Une grande partie. J'étais très capable de faire une partie avec l'aise de l'âge de l'âge. Et il était un très bon son, un son de moi, pour le volet de mon carrière et de mon cause de l'Estonne. Parce que de l'Estonne, Michel Ollier, et le manager, elle a donné l'opportunité de imaginer une winery de l'an-m'attache. - Oui, d'un autre. - C'est un autre chose. - Il était intéressant. - Je suis un père qui a été un bouleau gé à New York, les chefs de bouleau gé pour un petit restaurant. Donc, une nouvelle cuisine, une nouvelle de la crache. Michel a l'air de beaucoup de être able de construire cette maison. Et ça va travailler pour elle. - Elle est en train de construire le bouleau gé. - Oui, exactement. Et je suis en january 2000, même si je suis en Michel Ollier aujourd'hui. Et je suis en charge de venir de l'an-m'attache pour le tour. Et je suis venu avec le tour du vignage et de venir de l'an-m'attache avec le tour de l'O2. - C'est le tour de l'an-m'attache. - Donc, je pense que c'était 1993. Je suis en du sommet à l'elle, le tour d'argent. Donc mon père, un comandeur, un bouteille de castueux national, 1962. - D'accord. - Un incroyable. - Sur son de deux. - Oui. - Une évartéïste. - Il y a beaucoup de money. - Il y a faute au temps. - C'est vraiment bien. - Donc, le tour d'argent a un incroyable. Il est très liste. Et nous avons été dans les caves. - Donc, les autorités de l'an-m'attache sont des milliers de l'an-m'attache de l'an-m'attache. - Oui. - Il y a eu 20 ans. - Le tour de l'an-m'attache est une partie de la deuxième de l'an-m'attache. - En 75 ans, dans le centre de la ville, il n'y a pas de 1e gauze. - Oui. - Et on ne sait pas. Donc, on est en gros. - Mais le tour, tous les classifs de l'an-m'attache, qui est un éche-m'attache. C'est pour l'an-m'attache. Mais les plus de l'an-m'attache, c'est un nouveau tour de l'an-m'attache. - Oui. - Et les plus de l'an-m'attache, et les plus de l'an-m'attache. - Oui. - Exactement. - Donc, je suis assuré dans le pâletique de l'an-m'attache. Parce que c'est jamais la première fois que c'est la première fois que c'est la fin 1973. - Exactement. - Un peu de l'an-m'attache. - Oui. - Est-ce que ça va être une change de politique? Comment ça va? - La chambre a toujours un conversation de ces choses. - C'est ce que c'est. - C'est ce que vous voulez de la chanson. - Oui. - Il peut être difficile de faire des objectifs critères. Et vous savez, dans le seconde tour, vous avez le marché et le travail de l'an-m'attache. - Les honours et les wineries ont été différentes. - Oui. - Les cas de la prise et l'inquality. - C'est important. - Non, non. - Vous avez besoin de vous maintenir. - Oui. - Et nous, nous, nous sommes ennemis à la chambre de l'an-m'attache. Nous pouvons imaginer pour le win, pour le win. Donc, il est très ambitieux pour ces gros. Il est aussi venu pour le win, et il est avec nous, avec le team. Mais il n'y a plus de question de la quantité. - Oui. - Nous devons faire le bon courage. - C'est le meilleur course pour les lurs. - Donc Napoleon III était le temps de la classification. Donc les néfus de. La originale Napoleon Bonaparte. Je me suis dit que la histoire. - Oui, je suis très intéressé à moi, parce que c'était très controversial. Il se sent comme le temps et le classifier. Et je pense que pour le monde, c'est un bon truc. Je pense que les gens respectent le classifier et les respectent le order. Et je pense que les wineries, les celles respectent. Ils ont des positions dans ce order. - Oui, bien sûr. Mais vous savez, ce n'est pas bien pour être le second course. - Oui. - Le market, le rating. things, it's crazy. Push you to try to be the best or what? Yes, it is a good sign. It is also good because it pushes us to always make evolutions and to always try to do our best. It's in the bottom of the matters, right? We hope, of course. But in my business, which is everything in the mail, the most divine part, most right? And it's in America, the wine business is kind of a little crazy. It's a little mixed up. The distributions, the consolidation, retailers, internet retailing is very complicated. And so everybody is struggling with trying to figure this out. And having conversations with people like you, a wine maker from Burgundy, from Champagne, from America as well, it's coming down to this passion that comes in the bottle. That's the way you differentiate yourself as what's in the bottle. Yes, that's what it comes from. This is a key point. And the terror gives the potential of the one you can do. And you are only there to try to reveal this potential. Yes, it's a way. It's like the variety. The variety, like I said, is here to not to show himself. It's here to read the terror. And nothing more. And we are here with the team to do the same. Yes, to read the terror and to try to put the taste of the place in the bottle. And nothing more. Not ourselves. That's not easy to do. And I think the wineries that continue to do that successfully with the wineries that will be successful. Because it's a very difficult business as you already know. And America has even more difficult because everybody thinks they can do it. And I have a competitor of mine who sells wine on Groupon. Five, the 12 bottles for $60. $5 a bottle. And it's junk. It's a man. Right? It's a totally different world. But the consumer doesn't know that. The consumer thinks I'm getting wine for $5. And the experience of wine, when you taste the wines like these, is not about how cheap you buy it. It's about what's in the glass when you're drinking. Yes. And the big wine coming from a big terror gives you emotion. Yes. Not only pleasure. And sometimes when big vintage and someday the time stop. And this is what wine is. What wine or art can give you? It is. And I have friends that just built wine sellers in their house. My neighbor is very close friends. But all they want is Napa Cabernet. And they don't understand how to differentiate and feel what you're trying to put in the bottle. So in the terror war, it's said to Stephie Schodersen. It seems rather diverse. Yes. Are you water? Are you arguing in there? I know where you're going. No, no, no, no. I guess you're going to need to be done in France. So in gold it is forbidden. Or is the border forbidden? Right. Ah, okay. So we depend on the climate. We depend. Right. So are you sensing climate change in the border yet? Or is this pretty stable still? No, we feel that. And the way we feel that since 20 years is that Cabernet's wine ripe much easier than the past. In the past Cabernet, so we know it was ripe only in the big vintage, only two years on 10. And today it's quasi-each vintage. We have ripe Cabernet. This is so completely new. And it could be impossible to imagine that 20 years earlier to say that. Really? That's interesting. So Cabernet's wine was on limit ripening region. And now with this warming we see perfectly that it makes ripening easier. So is it earlier? Yes. Earlier and more complete ripening. More. And so that explains that the quality of the tanning of Cabernet's wine today is more easy to manage than in the past. So when you get to ripening and this is something I've learned as well through these interviews, we're no longer relying just on the sugar content. We're looking at it. I noticed you mentioned downstairs that using the fermentation is starting of a whole berry using the indigenous yeast. Yeah, at the beginning. That's right. So it's already happening. But a lot of wine makers are talking about the thickness of the skin, the pH of the skin. Yeah. The thickness of the skin. We make all these analyses of population. And we taste the berries also. And this is a mix. And also we have the we have meteorological stations. And we know we also calculate the temperature some total temperature. And that we've also an idea of when terrically the grapes, the grapes, is ready. So we need different key to make the taste. And I have grapes for dinner. No, no, no, we go through the vineyard and what is interesting is this is also the experimentation and the link we have with each block. You know, a block is like a person and we know a block and a terror and a part of terror has the bad side of his good side. Yes, right. And a big terror is not perfect. And all our life we have to try to understand the bad side of each block and to fight against that. This is this relicion of each block and the memory that push us also to decide to harvest or not each block. That's the analysis of the contribution of that block to the songs, to the battle and the melange. Is it organic? No, we stop using herbicide for a year or so ago. So we work with the soils, cultivate the soils. We use a lot of grass and when the soil is to reach on stone and we want to keep the water, we cultivate, we flow. And then we use only four or five products which are not allowed to be organic but these products are general for the users and also doesn't put residues on the wines. Yes, this is a two key point for us. I mean, I'm not sure that I agree with all the things that are happening. For instance, there's this natural wine. It means nothing to us. There's no definition. Consumer thinks it means something. I mean, what's unnatural about any wine? If you put grapes or juice in a bottle in a barrel and you go for holiday, you will not make wine or you will make vinegar. Except if you are lucky or. So then the natural yeast, the indigenous yeast is not enough against the market? It is a choice. We use indigenous beginning but then we use a selected yeast. When we follow. It is a choice. Maybe within five years we will do different things. It is a job when making. It's never white or black. You have to be very, very flexible. But that would be very good second growth vinegar, right? I'm not sure if the price could be the same. Actually, there used to be a gentleman in the old days, I'm talking about the 80s, and he would go around and collect half bottles of better tasting. And he would make first growth of second growth vinegar out of course. So I'm fascinated by that subject and I've tried to understand it better myself. I have consumers that are asking me these questions. We all know the sulfite question. They consider natural wine to be less than 78 parts per million. But this is probably less than that. You don't add much. Sorry, part of the process. They want dry-farmed. I'm not sure why that's unnatural to have water, but they want dry-farmed. Why is that unnatural? I don't think it's a problem. Sugar is no sugar here. Right. It's dry. So I think then the consumer's mind, they misunderstand what all this happens. What happens in the winery and how important it is. But I do believe they're sort of looking at the least amount. intervention being touched by somebody, right? So he does something to it, right? Yeah. There's a book in America called "Litwazim Asyet." It's a book on biodynamic farming in the food business wheat corn over us. It's written by Chef in New York. He tells us an amazing story about a land that cats who came to visit his restaurant. My daughter went to Atlanta Coss's pastry school in East Hanzhou. So he talks about how Atlanta Coss tasted the butter and knew that it was not made by hand. And Atlanta Coss tasted the fact that the cows were not grazing in a fertile part of the fort farm. And it was true. And so I think, with grapes, it's the same thing. But eventually, you need to taste where it's from. Exactly. Exactly. You need to determine that. That's the emotional part of wine. Exactly. And this is more important, you know. And the terroir, the taste of the terroir, that is more important. And it is above the varieties, the man, the way of farming. It is above a lot of things. It's a terroir. I have this new conversation. And I already mentioned part of it where when you're having a glass of wine with friends, family, a meal, whatever you're doing, it should be an emotional experience. You may not understand the emotion or the flavors of your tasting. That's not important. What's important is that it makes you feel something. Exactly. And then you're accepting. Exactly. The big wine, thank you, thank you, your hand. And then you go, you travel around. That's right. And sometimes you can be afraid. And this is interesting. And you are meaning, but you are wondering where I am going. And then the wine comes back. So the road is cold. It's a long-term. A long-term trip. I'll put it on the side. I'll tell you a story. Somebody sent me a bottle of bogeyla. I think it was bogeyla, like nothing in particular, district. And it was undrinkable, 2016, terrible. And it was being sold under a brand name, a very famous TV show in America. That was the brand. And I felt sorry for the consumer because that person buys this thinking, "Oh, it's from his TV show. It must be good." And he pours it for his friends. There's nothing to talk about. The extent how bad this is. You want to be able to emote. It should be out of the way. It should not be part of the forefront of your mind. You should be tasting it, enjoying it, discussing life with it. And it shouldn't be telling you other than that. You should be experiencing the wine. And that's the way I think about it. Now, it's changed my outlook. This is relatively new. Even though 30 years in the business, the concept is new for me. Because I think it's a very important concept for the consumer to understand what your job is. And what coast-western-ale means is that reflection of where it's from. And that's the emotional part of it. That's my new mission to do this. Thank you for all of this. And of course, so tell me about these vintage. This is an extraordinarily interesting thing for me to taste these vertical. All the wines are different. And where do you want to start? Well, we started with the eight. Eight was the first vintage we made in January, so we're using the gravity. Oh, yeah. That was fascinating. You knew methodologies. It's very simple, but so important for some reason. You sort of automated what would have been a more difficult thing, but it's still very natural, gravity-fed. Exactly. Exactly. This was in the same philosophy of Michel Rabia, the owner, to put in the bottle, the taste of the terroir. And he don't want the wine to be disturbed by something. So with this facility, we are gentle. And this is very important, even in not so ripe vintage. And we are sure to never over-extract. So you put in a grape just diagram. You put the grapes in the upper. You put them in the thing and there's very little pressure. There's no pressure. Exactly. It's free run juice, which I think you call good. Van the good. Van the good. So we put the grapes without pumping. This is the first step. And because of that, the seed is always surrounded by the skins. And at the end, we are sure to never over-extract the tiny nerve of the seeds, which can be a year-a-rush. And then we do the leastage. We empty the tank twice a week, twice a day during the fermentation, during five days. And then we put back the juice on the skins. It's to allow the extractions of the color. Fascinating. And we do that with these moving tanks, without pumping all the things. So the first juice is clear? Or is it a little bit red or what? It depends on the vintage. In the very ripe vintage, and with very rich grapes, it's immediately black. It is. It was the case in '05. It was the case more recently in '16 and '18. Fascinating. Because they owe less color. Yes. We needed more time. Yeah. More time. But it is a surprise to see how wine is alive today. Oh, yeah. Then you're after. So after the van the good, now you make some fresh juice. Yes. And the press wine is very important in bottle, because we use this press wine to make the blend and to adjust the last touch of the blend. The big bottle of wine, the big rose, need press wine to make to be more complete and complex. So if I was to take just for fun, the free one has started to ferment a little now because of the yeast on the skin. Yes. Yes. This is the step where it's a whole barrier. It's before fermentation. Yes. And before working off the wine. Yes. So if I put a glass under the van the good, under the glass under the pressure. Yes. How would I pour the? The press wine is usually mortine and it is not the same quality of tanine. It gives spice and the press wine also makes the marriage between the different wines on the blend more easy. Easily. It gives d'olion, softness, and roundness and that makes the wine, I see. Yes, I see. And that helps to make a link between the wines of the blend. Well, okay. And this is a crucial point of an aspect of the press wine. So you blend all of that together and you blend them based on the process. In other words, you've got all this wonderful press juice. No, we have a several bending session with the team and the owner, Michel Rabier. And we try and we do our best. We don't care on the variety. Never. We look after what is the variety inside. And we build the cost we imagine the best in each vintage. For each vintage. Fascinating. And we do that before putting the wine in bar. We want to blend early to make the marriage as early as possible. Because our terror has a lot of different soils and we think that it's important to marry the different wines coming from the soils early to have. Like them melt together. But they're all exactly. That's an interesting point because I did an experiment yesterday with my own staff. And I took, actually, it was some Marz-On-Bet and I had some California Cabernet and the same vintage. And I had them taste them separately. And I said, "I want you to put them together. It was 50/50 just to see. And they're obviously different wines." And I said, "Do you not sense that they're not together? You distinctly taste this cabaret. You distinctly taste this porto. If from different parts of the world, different soil, different everything, then they do not blend well. That's trying to teach you some of the ideas." Yes. You can imagine if it's. We work or not, but you need to try. Because you can love so much. Fantastic. Yes, yes. Rolling humans, right? I mean, you pay no to pop off an analogy in Bordeaux. In the past, it says that when you do a good blend in Bordeaux, the blend is better than the best. That's right. 2 plus 2 equals 5. Exactly. Exactly. And you have a blending effect, the plus one equals three, and you have a blending effect, which is magic. - It's too bad, our friends in Bergeny can't do that, huh? - Yes, but it's. No, no, no, but it's. That makes their job more difficult. - Yes, yes. - Sometimes they have one block, or one variety. - This small. - One terroir. And you have to be right on the date of harvest and everything. In Bordeaux, you have different blocks, different soils, different variety, and you can't play. - You can. - You can play more easily. And in Bogni, I suppose it is. It's very interesting, but not easy. - Not easy. - Not easy. Any bio dynamic farming in the Madag? - You have some vineyards, which are one and a half percent. - Everybody like us make experimentation, everybody. We're all compared. And then, each winery starts to have its own road and philosophy. - I noticed between the '04 and the '05, there was a big difference in its age component of the character. The '05 seemed to have been more advanced to this age for the one year than the between these two. - Yes. - All five content, rightness. - Yes, '05, we had incredible conditions. We had dry conditions in the beginning, but never too hot. Dried conditions make a very positive and interesting, hydrogue stress for the vineyard. Just enough to stop growing and love the rye and to rye the tonneins. And then, not too hot conditions keep the fruit. - Yes. - This combination in Bordeaux can be magic. - Yes, it was great, they're all great. - Well, it's been fascinating. I was really intrigued also by the '16. - I pulled my nose. - Still a baby. - Yeah, then jumped out of the glance. But this was a great vertical for us. - Yeah, it could be very interesting to taste the '16, which is in 10 years. - Yeah, 10 years after. - 50 or the 40. - You know, and with wine, this is also an interesting side. Sometimes you want to be older because you want to be older. - Same for the same. - Absolutely, I'm very happy to have this discussion. I appreciate it. - I'm very happy to speak with you. - Thank you.