Inside B&Q's Net Zero Transformation: From Plant Pots to Supplier Collaboration, How to Make Sustainability Stick

[Music] Hi and welcome to Straight Talking Sustainability. Where every week we're going to answer your questions and help you navigate the choppy waters of sustainability in your business. We're going to try and cut through the noise and help you simplify and focus. And hopefully, choose some actions that will really stick for lasting impact. We're all about sharing and making connections. So are you ready? Shall we dive in? [Music] Hi everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Straight Talking Sustainability. I'm thrilled to introduce my guest for this week and it's somebody that I've worked with recently. And someone I can honestly say the ripple effect is starting to come into effect. Sinita, good afternoon. How are you? I am. Yeah, good. Really good. Thank you. Thanks so much for joining us. Sinita, I invite you to one because I really wanted to hear from a practitioner, somebody at the call face, and you're working at being Q. So to tell our listeners a bit about how hard it is to move from maybe setting a target in net zero to actually rolling that out in the business. So just to introduce you, it says here that you're on a mission in retail, so that's good to hear. And I know because I can make you personally, you definitely are on a mission. But you've got a commercial background in buying and product development, which again is really interesting for those of us working in sustainability. So you've come at this from left field as it were. And you're now working on that zero full time with being Q. Yeah. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your role, sort of scope out, you know, how you ended up in this role, Sinita and what your main kind of objectives are? So I guess for over 20 years, I've always worked in buying and product development. Now, I probably always thought I'd probably be there till I retired a few years ago, but three years ago, really, I saw a bit of a gap. The gap was basically that the sustainability team were working really hard to try to engage the commercial team into doing some of the activity. And we, because I was obviously firmly sent that can, one really kind of engaging, because it's tough, right? You know, it's already tough environment. You know, you got you got targets, you got margin, you got sales targets, etc. And then someone comes from the sustainability team and they're like, oh, you know, can you stop selling this or you look into that, etc. Oh, guess what? There's attacks. So I saw a bit of an opportunity to be that conduit between, you know, sustainability and commercial. It kind of also coincides with when I had a bit of a personal situation going on at home and I kind of fancied a change. So, off I popped to Sam Dyer, who's my line manager, she's the head of a sponsor business and I said, right, why don't you just, you know, give me a go. Yeah. Let me see how I get on in this role that she was advertising for. There was a maternity cover and she gave me the role. So I started off there, like I said, over three years ago now and never left and fast forward. I now lead the Netzer-Oton-Svishan-Fland for being Q with recently had some change. So I look after Scopes 1, 2, and 3, I guess, from a holistic perspective. But Scope 3 is, I guess, my real baby. Yeah. And I don't think I could do it if I didn't have the commercial background because Scope 3 is all about our products, it's all about our vendors and we need that to be able to do that. So yeah, very busy, but I love it. Well, I am really glad to hear you love it and B, I think there's a lot to be said for coming from a commercial background. So as you know, because I trained you to train, I love training people from a non-sustainability background moving into this space and not that they need to become experts instantly, but they are experts in their business anyway and they can learn the other stuff like on the job, if you like. So it's almost a bit of a case of don't wait until you're an expert in everything. Is that what you felt, Sunita? Just tell us about that kind of early transition. Did you feel this dreaded imposter syndrome around your day? Oh, massive, massive around and I kept thinking, you know, I don't know anything. I didn't really know very much about carbon. But you know, I'm a girl, set me a target, I'll go after it and I'll hit it. So I think that is what drives me. And then if you take away, you know, tons of carbon, carbon emissions, intensity, etc. End of the day, it's another target we've yet to hit. Yeah. And I guess that's what keeps me driving. So I know what I need to do, I know what I need to do to get to where we need to get to. And that's the approach that I take. It's hard work because I guess, you know, if I were say, you know, a bio in being cute, you look after set, you know, catacirc products, etc. It's quite focused because then you get the product expertise. But in this role, it's pretty much every single product that you kind of need to look of. So it becomes very wide. That in itself is a bit of a challenge, isn't it? Because then you, you look at it and you think, I've got such a wide range of things to kind of pick from to go after. So I like that. Well, there's a risk of scattergun approach, isn't there? Yes. If it's too wide. But what pops into my head there, so I need to, you know, transferable skills? Yes. So I loved what you said, you know, it's a target. I know how to go after targets. I'm good at that. And obviously Sam's all that in you as well. But I think that's really important for other people to hear. Yes. You know, we don't need to put stuff off until we're all, you know, educated to the nth degree and we've got x numbers of consultants and whatever. Right. We can do stuff from within with the skills that we've got. Yeah. I think that's really powerful. And I think what is is good. I think what works for me is that, you know, my larger stakeholders are obviously the commercial buying team. If they don't do the stuff that we kind of need them to do, we ain't going to hit net zero for sure. Yeah. And I mean that from a sculpture perspective. But because, you know, coming from that world, you understand the oppressors. You learn how to speak to us, peach as well. So, you know, sometimes we have sessions where you know, like, you know, some things need to happen. And I often say, it's a really bad time of year, guys. I wouldn't really be having this conversation then because, you know, they've got other things this year, this time of year that they need to go after rather than going about. Exactly. So, it's understanding how or what your stakeholders need before you kind of like go after it. So, I have that advantage. Yeah. But, you know, it's not something I take lightly because, you know, I respect what they do very much so coming from that world. Yeah. No, brilliant. So, lovely. Brilliant introduction. I think you've landed it really well as to how relevant this is for my audience or the audience, the podcast. We were talking earlier about the being cue. You can do it. And I already know from just knowing you a few months to need it, you're a real doer. But more generally, there's this move from target setting to actually doing. Yes. Okay. So, we're going to talk a bit about that today. It's all very well having plans. Right. And now most people will know that being cue have been at this quite a long time. You know, in terms of strategies and plans and have had made some really good strides. What are some of the kind of big achievements that you sort of pride of as a company, if you like, that you might have inherited Sunita, you know, the sort of earlier stuff. Give us a bit of history. So, I love the fact that we've got a huge heritage of being sustainable in this space. People often say, you know, being cue in a bit in the DIY sector, you know, we really kind of lead within sustainability, which is which is lovely. But there's a lot of truth in it because, you know, we were founding members of the FSC some 30 or years ago. You know, we were the first to come up with Pete free bags of compost. And you know, in 2026, the plans that we sell will also be Pete free as well. You know, we do lots of things on the circularity initiatives, lots of things behind the scenes that our customers actually don't see. So, of course, we need to get better. And it is absolutely something that I want to achieve in 2026 onwards is to get better talking about it in the right way because not everybody, well, and I say everybody, I mean our customers, of course, because we are very customer centric, you know, they need to resonate with it. And if it doesn't mean anything to them, really, it's no point spending your money on marketing. I'm trying to push something uphill. So, there is a lot of stuff that we do over, I think nearly 99% or above 99% of them, or the wooden paper that we purchase within being cute, is also kind of like certified. Amazing. The kind of stuff that we do. Yeah. Some say it's like a scale as a label. Yeah, of course, some of the, and the scale is amazing. And that's, you know, part of the reason I love working with companies that are involved in consumer goods is the scale and the influence these shifts that may well take a decade. But once it's done, it's done. Like we won't go back to Pete in compost, okay? Not, no, not in something, unless something really, really changes. And what about your influence, not just on consumers, but do you feel like you've got influence on others in the sector or suppliers? Can you give us an idea of how you feel that's working? I think because our suppliers who work with us are very aware of the kind of initiatives that we have got in place. Another ones that we know we talk about openly, nothing's like FSC, within paper, etc. That kind of stuff, they are aware of the kind of expectations that we have for our suppliers. We are constantly working with our suppliers to kind of find ways to do things together. So I also look after CBAMP for my sins for being cute. And that was really interesting because what I often hear from our supplies all the time, not sure whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is like, why are you guys like the only ones are seeing us for this? Like why do you need this data? Like why do you need, why are you pushing for this when no one else has? So that's something to see BAMP for our audience, Sneeter, what's the acronym? So carbon border adjustment mechanism, the EU, it's going live in 2006, we've been in a transitional phase for the last two years, so testing it in a going life, become a January. And it basically, you know, it is, there's levy on, on texts, carbon intensive goods, so your likes of aluminium steel, fertilizers, are very fortunate to partner up with a very amazing partner who has given us a lot of headway. But in the early days, you know, it was us kind of like scrambling around ensuring that our vendors understand what is it that they need to do to get us, you know, kind of like being able to kind of do all submissions online to the European Commission. And what I love about, well, maybe love is a strong word, right? We know all these like taxes, you know, ETHO and all that is there for a reason, right? We know it's there for a reason. It's meant to like drive good behaviour. But every now and then, you know, you've got to remind your vendors as well. You know, yeah, it's hard work. Trust me, it's hard work for me as well. You know, it's just the amount of like checks and paperwork and all of that. But it's the collaboration is the way that we were and I'm very much like to think that's the being QA because it's stuff for all of us, but we like to simplify it. And it's something that I do, probably almost on a daily basis as well. Because whenever we talk about, you know, like, you know, engaging people, engaging colleagues, etc. It's this whole education piece that you need to hold people's hand through. Don't get straight at that there's a new taxes, a new levy, etc. Understand what is it meant to drive? Let me help you understand what you need to do. And then together we'll get to something together. The hard thing is that nothing is instant, right? In our world. You don't, you don't blink and things happen. Everything takes in up to years or three years, etc. But at least I am confident that we have to write conversations. We interact, we engage in the right way to help people. So no one's on the own. Because otherwise, you know, I think you're absolutely right. And I, you know, I have this kind of losing of when you go to a conference and people say, what we really need is collaboration and everyone goes, yes, we need to collaborate. And actually get on and do it, you know, don't just talk about it. But collaborating collaboration can just be, as you've explained it, getting together with your supplier and saying, do you know what? We've both got this problem. Yeah, we could share it. And we could do it much quicker together and somehow make it more manageable. And I love the fact that you took a lead on that because, hey, someone's going to take a lead on it and be why wouldn't you want to be the type of company that leads on these things? Yeah. Right. It's hard of work, you know, but I'm not opposed to picking up the phone, ringing out while supplies and saying, hey, what's going on? And you know, yeah, don't hide that kind of hype, burn an email, right? Don't hide behind this pressure. And I find like those kind of conversations, then kind of stimulate kind of what else are you doing? You know, it's the stuff that you're doing that we could get involved in. So some of those early kind of like conversations have kind of like stimulated a whole heap of other things. So yeah, I love that. You know, and then going back to the fine days as well. That's what you do. You pick up the phone. You talk to your vendor and you say, right, how are we going to sort this out together? Not fully, we kind of will keep motivating our supplies more. Next year, we've got a whole heap, well, I've got some big bands or what we're going to be doing to help us apply even more in this space because we need to show them what we're doing. And the stuff that we do behind the scenes that perhaps we don't put out. I can share because you know, if I want you to reduce your scope one or two, look at that, please enter my three. I'm going to jolly well have to show you what I'm doing in my one in two first right. So why not? Yeah. Yeah, it's a couple of things that might seem really obvious to people, but I don't think the sector is doing enough of. When we say share quite often, it's all we've done a webinar with put a newsletter or whatever. That's not really sharing. What you're talking about is sharing or almost sharing over a sandwich, you know, sharing over a phone call, sharing in a room, sharing our problems. And we all know a problem shared is a problem halved. But actually, I think the ripple effect probably means that that problem is cut into a hundred, you know, because you suddenly you have 10 great minds working on it 100 great minds working on it. And yeah, there's a snowball effect. But I also love an hour and hour's think pretty well. Is that everyone who's into it shares. So I love that. So, you know, we've got some vendors who are really utterly committed to the cause. It helps when you obviously speak to bright contact. Yeah. So there's another security manager or a carbon manager said chances are we'll interact and we'll get on really a little house and five because you got the shed shed experiences, chat problems, I guess, challenges. And they're always up for, do you want me to send something to that vendor, you know, like, you know, oh, would they like to see our responsible business report or they like, you know, to have a copy of all the stuff that we're doing. And I love that because it's this generosity that sits within sustainability that I find very humbling. Yeah. And I like that very much. I mean, I, you know, you got to them, you got a seminars, you got a conferences and stuff like that. I have met individuals literally around the coffee and then they go, oh, this is what I want to do. Do you want to hear what I do? Maybe I can help you. And from those simple conversations, yeah, have stimulated all keeps the projects. I really completely agree at sharing within our world, but I think the thing you're really good at the need to is that you're taking it outside of the sustainability world because you're able to talk to, you know, commercial teams, buying teams, et cetera, et cetera. And I think that's the bit where maybe the sustainability world could learn from, you know, or do more of and just be a bit braver about picking up the phone. Yeah, the old school, the old school phone. But tell us about what you're seeing. You know, what are you seeing through your work that perhaps other people are not noticing so much? What's happening in your world? Are things speeding up for things getting harder or better? So I guess internally in being Q, what I'm starting to see is a bit more of a behavioral shift. Compact to even, you know, the three years of me, me doing this. Yeah, we've obviously done a lot of work on kind of like carbon literacy and engagement. And you know, and that's obviously how I met you in the first place. But that has a significant impact on how people think. Because I guess you know, you know how when you first start, well, you know, this is, this is the decades for you. Yeah, this is this is still new for me. When I first started, I used to get frustrated because I went like, you know, why are you not taking this seriously? Right. You don't understand that there's a climate crisis. But no one uses the word life climate crisis on the way to. And then it got me thinking it doesn't mean anything to you because you don't understand it. And when you don't understand it, there's no logic behind it. Why on earth would you care? So I developed a lot of my time and my energy towards ensuring that people that I engage with understand the logic of what is it I'm trying to do. Because if you is all very well to say just do this, but then you don't get it. They won't do it again. What you want is to do to build that whole sense of being responsible around what you do. So even I guess you know the carbon literacy training that we deliver in being Q now is about understanding how it fits into your world. It's not just about boom. You know, this is it. This is the climate side. No, one and thanks that you need to remember. Yeah, that's by the buy. And I always say this right at the start. So I'm not a carbon expert here. I am not a carbon expert. I will tell you that right now. There are things that I want you to Google and come back to it. I'm honest about that. But ask me how to get something done that I can help you with that I can help you together. And I think that in itself helps a lot of people with the confidence. So I'm seeing that like enough and one of the causes we did recently. I had some great feedback on one of the buyers who came on the training. She said, yes, what she said this week. All the conversations I had with my suppliers. I've asked if you said any targets, you know, like, you know what you're doing in your scopes wanting to I felt so proud. I was just bursting with pride. Because that's exactly the kind of feedback that we want to hear. It's about not being afraid to have this conversations because we always say right. So before we started all the literacy stuff and all of that, we'd say to the buying teams, go and ask your suppliers, what are they doing? They don't why would they because if they got asked back, they were now to answer with they what is got one what is cooked to and certainly what it's cooked three. They want to hear me bang on about it. But then all of a sudden now when you have that knowledge, but then I interest it. Are you actually doing are you a company that cares? You can have that conversation right. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, no one I love it too, so I'm grinning like a cheshire cat and people that were just listening in because that's why I do what I do is to see that shift. And I, you know, I don't know how many tons of carbon that's going to result in, but I know it's going the right way. And I've been turning a lot in the last couple of weeks and in fact training Kingfisher's part of the group that you're part of and even with people in that case who are the response for business team, you know, where can I move them to because they're all my all be about knowledge, but how can I move them to a point in actually some of the biggest take. from that course were like, I just didn't realize how much influence I might have on other people. You know? And you have had significant influence on us that much I can tell you because I guess I got motivated to get off my backside to say, right, I need to do this. So we always thought, you know, we would go down this route. But I didn't feel quite ready to be a trainer. So I surprised myself this year and I thought, you know what, if I need a tool to get my job done and this is it, I got to embrace it. So yeah, I faced my inner. I know, I'm just going to recap on that because I need to, I introduced you and just because I'm so keen to get into the meat of the conversation. And I didn't even say, like, I met Sniita because I trained B and Q and then I trained Sniita and her colleague, um, to, um, to be trainers. And you are now a trainer, okay? Yes. So just for people listening, this is real life. Yes. This is what happens. Yeah. And it's been amazing that whole gift because you are responsible for building the knowledge of something as important as our, as our net zero transition plan. Because now all of us and people have the understanding of a stuff that I keep asking them to do, they get it. Why, why am I seeing these things? And yeah, perhaps you know, during the training, I hop on about the stuff that that is quite tortuant to me that I need them to do. We also train in such a way whereby the cohorts are developed around, well, I put all the bind teams together. So then we have the same kind of like questions, etc. They kind of like come back. So I try to keep, you know, groups of people together in that sense, but we've got a lot of people to train anywhere in being Q, you know, we kind of really put our hearts and minds to it. So how, yeah, how many people do you want to train? What's the latest ambition? So I always started off by saying, you know, it's my stakeholders at me, this carbon training primarily, which is obviously the commercial binding team. We've made a good start. So I think we've done, by the time I think this podcast goes that we were done where you were, 100 people. Fantastic. And then come next year. Yeah, we'll just keep rolling. We said we'll do one course per month and the courses tend to get filled up fairly quickly, which is really nice. And I just love it. When someone will send me a message and said, oh, you know, we've heard you're doing this course and we need to do this because because you know, we feel we play a part. People want to. It's great. You know, then you know, you've already got an engaged audience rather than the ones who have been told to go and attend because they need to understand. But you know, yeah, I, for those who perhaps don't understand why they should do carbon literacy. I mean, one of the more sorry, got an investigation. Sorry, so they just go back and interrupted. So one of those, just go back and set a bit for those who don't understand. Yeah. So for, for us, you know, kind of like doing carbon literacy, oh, I lost my Jane of thought now. I'm really sorry. That's okay. That's okay. That's a normal real life, isn't it? Well, after we said as well. Yeah. I'm just waiting for us to start off the drill. It's a good job. We're not on a panel of 1000 people watching us, but we're not. It's, um, it's fine. I can ask. I can move on to the question as well. So I wanted to move on to you said you were training people and now people want a book in onto courses and that's really great. And so it's, it's so great. It's needed to hear that people are actually demanding these courses. It's like, it's like a, um, a maturity thing. You know, first of all, you have to kind of propose the idea. People don't know what it is. Then you might have to kind of recruit some early adopters. And now you've got to this kind of holy grail where people are actually asking you to come and train them. Right. You know what happens after that because you basically, you've kicked the door open and suddenly they're having conversations about carbon when you're not even there. Yeah. And I love that. You know, that the giving someone the confidence to have the ability to have the, you know, a conversation and not be afraid or worried. You know, I look back to when I started. I used to get worried when, when, when vendors do ask me questions like a non-sah, um, but it's all part of the learning process. And it was just a conversation I had yesterday, actually, um, one of it was St. Buyers. And we were writing the pledge, you know, for as part of the, you know, the end of the, the course, you know, you write a pledge and we were talking about her pledge. And, um, and I said to her, I said, you know, um, do you find it hard? And she said, no, it's just hard to put it into words. I feel it, but you know, it's quite hard to kind of put it into words, which always tends to be the problem. Most people kind of get it. And I said, you know, I know perhaps to most individuals, certainly anyone from, from buying, we'll look at it and say like, oh, you know, it's not really worth my time doing this. It's not a set or this is not a purchasing qualification. But yes, this certification gives you an advantage when you perhaps in a move on to another organization because why wouldn't you be a carbon aware buyer or makes the right decisions? As we do carbon eyes and make changes within our product portfolio, stop selling their, stop selling less of this, increase sales of et cetera. Imagine if you had the knowledge prior, you would make those decisions early on. So that means you wouldn't go against your, your decarbonisation plans. I'm feeling it because you don't understand it. Yeah, speaking the language. Yeah. So to me, it's really valuable. And yeah, some of them really gets it because it's like, let's say you get two buyers, yeah, you know, 10 years experience each person, fantastic knowledge, where's the added point of difference? Yeah. Yeah. And the difference. Yeah. So, I mean, just for a kind of dose of reality, right, do you have challenges actually motivating people? You're still finding some areas resistant to wanting to come on this journey. And I mean, not just carbon literacy, but the whole net zero. Generally. Yeah, absolutely. And I think I said, deny it, but getting very frustrated when I first started, no one would turn up on meetings. I still have that from time to time. It is getting better. I kind of accept that in a way as part of the role. I mean, have you ever met a non-fosterator sustainability professional? I don't think that exists, does it? I think that's a polite way of putting it. Yeah. And I think if you build in that tolerance within what you do, it makes it easier. Yeah. I understand that the role, of course, that I've been on with regards to learning myself. And I remember what it was like in my first 30 months where I felt, oh my God, I'm going to happen so much, all the signs, all the stuff I learned in secondary school back in Singapore, oh my God, who's the old son layer? All of that. And I think you're there. And this is not even the role that you do. I see it as part of my role is to kind of ensure that that person, I guess, has the tools or what we have. Yeah, you can power to do that. It's so important. And there may be another reason why, you know, sustaining me to professionals that have only ever done sustainability need to probably spend some time, carry the bag, as Nicklady Jain said, you know, in other departments walking the walk of ceiling. Absolutely. Yeah. Because this is what we do. Just because we love, you know, we love the things that we do, etc. It doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way. Everyone's got different pressures, you know, when I'm like running around trying to get all my information together for a slight, etc. You know, the person who's probably most challenged by it is me, not not not anyone else. But if you are able to tap into that, that all kind of like tolerance, the sympathy, the empathy, and I think it just generally works for everybody. Yeah. But if everyone gets to partake in it in a certain way. There's also respect, isn't it? You know, we think about, you know, respecting each other's role. And I'm a big believer of that. We've all got a part to play otherwise we won't ever a job, right? So we respect what each other has to do. I have colleagues in the bind teams who are absolute experts in their product areas. You know, we sell thousands of products. I, there's no way I live a little make. You could know, you know, that much product information. So I have to rely on the R expertise to carry me through what I'm trying to propose. And it's great because then it becomes a real true exchange. And there's some real respect building that happens within then. There's an understanding that, you know, I don't want to abolish or, or, or, you know, or finish off a particular category. Well, it's the dreaded, it's the dreaded coming in here to tell me how to do my job. I can't. It's the dreaded thing. So first of all, I've really heard it explained like that, it's needed. But for people who are trying to, as they tell me, increase engagement, you know, engage different departments, etc, etc, that's a really good place to start. And it sounds, again, really simplistic, but I don't necessarily think we do it or we focus on it. And I've spoken other episodes about language and sort of things like that. But Ashley is another layer before that, which is just, you know, kind of like, I get it. You are an expert in this job. And I'm coming, actually, I'm here to learn off of you today. Yeah. Right. You'll probably get more from doing that than you would a whole session on trying to tell them what it is you need. Absolutely. Yeah. So there's lots of layers to this, isn't there, which is fascinating. How do you share kind of more broadly? Let's talk about the consumer a little bit, because we've talked a lot about internally. And so whilst I'm sure you won't go out to consumers, they always trained a hundred people in whatever, whatever, whatever. What are you learning about that in the same way as you're learning about trying to, you know, collaborate internally? What are you learning about the consumer? Are they getting more interested in this? Less interested? What are your thoughts on that? So we have. a whole heap of things, I guess that we do. One of my early projects was a plant pot recycling initiative that we did. It's so simple, right? It makes me laugh every time because we are a large organization or things to get left off as not particularly easy. Sometimes even for the you would have thought the simplest of things and this is one of those projects where it had been raffling around for years and it hadn't been launched and this is one of the first things that I had to do with, you know, SAMSIT. Can you get it done please? And just somewhere like that. Do this over the line. And we did and it was such a simple concept whereby, you know, we sell thousands and thousands of plants. There's lots of plant pots kicking about that people always talk about. They said, "Oh, yeah, in my garage I've got hundreds of them, Sarah. Don't know what to do with them." So this initiative was having those those those collection points and in stores where consumer, local community comes our word, "frops them off" and then we take them, work with a vendor and then in a closed looped initiative, we recycle those pots back into pots that we sell and store. So it's so simple, sounds simple, right? This is it. The devil's in the tea sale. I'm sure it wasn't simple. And we obviously never shared the details we consume as too much information for them. But the the engagement that we had from from colleagues in stores and cost consumers was just mad. And we even got invited up to the houses of Parliament with the stand. You know, such a plava getting it over there. It was a lovely day out to talk about, you know, best practice within retail. I mean, that was amazing. So you talk about like doing some plant pots of all the things. But it grew. Yes. People's engagement on. It's been a kind of yes. Yeah. So simple. So it's the simple things really sometimes that really resonate with people. And that was definitely. I also think, yeah, sorry, Stephen, I also think sometimes, and it's right for me, so we have to focus on where the carbon is, right? And arguably the carbon in your plant pots, whatever, it's not going to move the dial. But we have to do things that are not only visible, but actually that people can resonate with. That's right. Right. Right. I grow plants. I go to being cute. Oh, what a pain. I've got all these plant pots. Wouldn't it be great if they recycled them? Blah blah blah. Right. So you're in some small way creating a culture of, oh, it works. No. Right. Thank you. Done it in it works. Whereas always seeing in the negativity around sustainability, all the time is, oh, well, that doesn't work. And this doesn't work. And you can't do that because. And so I think what you've done there is just you've just made something work. Yeah. And I'd say the largest enabler was probably the vendor that we worked with. Okay. What was a real true deliver? He completely believed in circle economy in such a way that he just wanted to champion it. And, um, yeah, wouldn't have been able to take off without, without, you know, their support. And it was such a great scheme. I had stores messaging me saying, or when can we have one of those. Because it's all stores now. So we've got in about 120 stores. So yeah, the, the next is to roll out basically to more and more stores. It is not easy because recycling in this country is not easy. Yeah. But you know, it's just, I guess as an example to show you how simple things are this can really resonate. Yeah, whether it's really got a significant carbon impact, but it doesn't. But you know, for more, we need to do both takes perspective. Yeah. You know, take pictures. Yeah. So we have no idea about. So like the bigger picture, like, you know, like do something about it. And then when it comes to kind of like, I guess the important stuff, which a lot of our vendors are working on. So we get research from our vendors will come and actively share consumer insights. They might do, I don't know, sessions in stores, etc. Close groups. Then they come and they share that information with me. And what I'm saying is that sustainability sadly isn't, isn't at the forefront of our world yet. So what it does say to me then, then we as a responsible retailer need to continue doing the heavy lifting for now. One day, it will catch up. Yeah. And our supply, our customers will understand, yeah, what we have been doing all this while to keep it going. And it's quite amazing. Some of the insights that we get back in the feedback that we get off the market research that our vendors do because everyone, once you make a sustainability change or a mentor put up, you want to shout about it. But consumers sometimes think, oh my gosh, is it going to cost me more? Is it green now? So therefore it's not going to work as well. Is it not going to set as well? Is it not going to be as durable? And then we go, you know what? As long as it hits the necessary quantity standard that allows you to sell the bucket it is, don't say anything for now. Let us do the heavy lifting. Yeah. Let us be the ones. We take that on. And then at some point in time, we would all join up and we will all get it. Yeah. I think that's a really great line to take away, you know, let us do the heavy lifting because that's a big organization, you know, selling product to people. You are responsible for that. And I think, you know, what is a responsible business? So a definition of a responsible business. I think should be, is a business that does it in the, in the, what did you say in the shadows, you know, behind the scenes? Yeah. You do it anyway. Because you know what's right. Yeah. We do it anyway. And I like to think very kind of business, who, who, who does that? We don't necessarily shout out a lot about it, but it's okay. I always say, well, our time will come. Our time will come. I love your faith. I think you're absolutely right, by the way, because as we know, this is right way of doing things. And we know the way things are going. But having the confidence is really important. And that's what's really, really coming across and trying to make it, what's also coming across to these are trying to make it not a hard ship. Yeah. It's hard to make it fun. I get, yeah. But it has to be fun though, Emma, you know, like, I always say to the team, right? So to my immediate team, that the day we come to work, we don't laugh or we don't have a laugh, it's time to rethink what it is that we're all doing. Because I, maybe I'm one of those weird individuals who I don't quite draw a line between women work because I like, I generally want to like what I do. I like the challenges. I don't let the big stuff get to me all the time. Yeah, I have down days as well. But you know, I come to work genuinely to laugh and have a nice time as well. It is hard. You know, sometimes you feel the one who get into the program. We have last minute cancellations. All that blah, blah, blah, that everyone has. But I work with a bunch of like-minded individuals. You know, we all love the planet. We all understand that we've got our part to play. And I always say this to people as well, right? You might not, you might think, what the hell are you doing this job for? Or, or, or, you know, like, you know, it's so hard or like, you know, but if, imagine, if we all thought that way, no one would do the jobs that we do, right? For the number of individuals that I meet in conferences and meetings and stuff. And we all joke about the amount of rejection us, the sustainability people have to put up with. Yeah, pale battles. Imagine if we all walked away. So someone's got to do the job, right? Yeah, I agree. Some of us have got to job at the job and some battles just aren't with, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Some hills aren't worth dying on. But what I love about your approach is that you recognize that staying power is really important. Yeah. And that you recognize, like doing the hard yards is important. But you've also got to make it enjoyable for people otherwise the hard yards will eventually kill you, wouldn't they? Yeah. Totally. So it's simple things like, you know, if we've had a little bit of a win, let's say, you know, we've had some, I don't know, we've managed to lose a little bit of carbon somewhere that adds to the number, moves the dial, livances slightly. I go, let's translate that into how many cheeseburgers and then, and then we'll go back to the person who helped us do it and said, by the way, yes, what? All that work, yeah, equates to about 7,000 burgers up to you when you want a bit of cheese or a relish inside, you know? And then we then have this whole kind of like relatable conversation because if I start talking about carbon intensity and blood, blood, blood, and tons, very dry. Yeah, very dry for them. So we go back and say today you have saved the equivalent of 7,000 burgers. Well done. And I, I'm a strong believer in that if people like doing something, they do it well, you know, it's put like kids at school, you know, if they enjoy it, they learn better and they turn up the next day and all that sort of stuff. And so if you can make it part, a part of someone's job not additional and be guess what, guess what, all your peers are doing it as well. So you want to be part of that gang. And see, guess what, it's looking, making us look really good out there in the marketplace, you know, the consumer likes it. Like what's not to like about it, suddenly. Yeah. So some of the people, multivitial as well, isn't it? Yeah, it's not such a battle anymore. I think remove the battle tactics, maybe. Yeah. Might take you a bit longer, but the wins are there. I think there's a lot to be said about optimism and positivity in the face of what is quite daunting. So hopefully it's been useful for people to kind of try and think and learn from your little bit of sort of run through there. And it's only been three years. It sounds like you've done so much already, Sunita. What's, what's around the corner for you? This episode will go out probably around New Year. So what does 2026 hold for you? I think it's the year where we start talking a lot more, but the things that we do. But you know, it's a fine line between just talking about takes talking about it and highlighting the stuff that actually people understand and resonate with and it carries some weight. So I'm quite keen to do something that really kind of showcases being cute. What do we do within sustainability in that right light within within carbon? I'm very keen to share, learn and motivate our vendors towards also joining us on that journey. So that's something that I've got, you know, as a bit of a kind of private target for myself. I want to start doing more in that space. So if I had a few phone calls this year, next year, I want to do even more. I want to have those lovely conversations and I want to get out there. I want to see what those changes are doing. I want to help in the way that we can because we are a collaborative team. Our world is collaborative. You know, there is, it's a shared, the planet, you know, that the climate crisis is a shared thing. So I'm not on my own. So I want individuals, organizations, etc. to feel that way as well. Then I guess within being cute, I want to keep this whole carbon-intercity thing flying. You know, I want as many colleagues to be carbon-literate as much as possible. I also dare say if we do have the time, I'd love to do something within stores because our store colleagues are the ones who meet our customers on a daily hourly basis. So they have direct contact now, but love to do something in that space for them to know more, to share more and start that whole kind of collective movement. So yeah, that's what that's next year for me. I kind of like to achieve. Apart from all the net zero and whatever trajectory and blah, blah, blah. That's useful day-to-day stuff. It's just great. And I think my sort of big takeaway, Sneeter. And thank you because, you know, when I do these interviews, I'm always blown away about how much I learn and how much it helps me kind of shuffle some thoughts in my brain, you know. And I'm just taking away so much from this in terms of you coming from inside the organization from a corporate commercial background, bringing that with a ton of respect for those people, but also, you know, bringing a bit of fun, bringing a load of collaboration. But we all know, and here's the killer, right? Collaboration isn't enough. Someone has to lead, Sneeter. Someone has to get off the bum and do it. And I'm just so happy that we met and that I had some part in that, you know, that little process. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, happiness all round. What's not to love? But if people want to get in touch with you, Sneeter, what's the best way? Do you hang out on LinkedIn? Yeah, so I'm all I'm on all the usual platforms, but just try not to sell me a platform. We've got enough of those. No sales. Yeah, no sales. But you know, happy to to collaborate to chat. I love the whole kind of learning and sharing that we do with the now industry. If for me, that has been in the last three years, that's been something so significant. I love because once you find the right individual that resonates, you know, you get on, you share, you share, and then you take stuff away. Yeah. And that's together. That's for sure. We're in it together. That's been fantastic. Thank you so much again for sharing. It's so good to have kind of call-face real-life examples of what it's like to be delivering that zero. You know, I'm really, really grateful for your times, Sneeter. No, it's been a pleasure. It's been nice talking about it actually. Yeah, good. Well, you've achieved a lot in here for the next three years. And you know, I'm looking forward to the kind of prime time adverts and all sorts of stuff that I think will come out of all this in due course. If you've enjoyed listening to that episode, I'm sure you have. Do reach out with any questions that you've got for the self or so, Sneeter. And do share it with other people you think might enjoy it. The more people that can listen and share this content, the more we all learn a bit quicker. So that's us for this week. I look forward to seeing you all in a week's time. Thanks for listening to Straight Talking Sustainability. If you find this episode useful, please share it with somebody who you think needs to hear it. And don't forget to subscribe, follow, rate, review, all that stuff really helps more people find the podcast. I'd love to connect with you on LinkedIn. 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