Inovação de base natural: das ideias à ação

[Music] Welcome to Vozes Circulares, the podcast of the Observer in partnership with the SmartWaste Portugal association that tells us about sustainability and circular economy and that is now back for a second season. Today's topic is "Innovation of Natural Basis" from Ideas à Ação, an episode that has the support of NBI, Natural Business Intelligence. And with us is today the professor Manuela Pintado from the Catholic University and also Nuno Oliveira, CEO of NBI, is a pioneer company in Portugal in the integration of biodiversity and natural capital in business models and that we will also meet along this episode a little better. Welcome, thank you very much for the availability. I wanted to start here a little bit with Nuno, what are we exactly talking about when we talk about natural capital and circular bioeconomy? Thank you and it is a pleasure to be here with you, to also have this conversation because in fact they are themes that seem to be necessary for a person to have a doctorate in biology to understand them, but they are themes that are absolutely daily. We are talking about the life we depend on, the ecosystems that surround us, the landscape that works, the productive systems, we are talking about also capital. And many times when we have the logic also of economic thinking, thinking that nature is something that we have to support or subsidize or that without us can't, can't run, it's a little the opposite. Nature is in absolute condition, that which is the economy, be it for dramatic issues as we see now with the issue of fires or with the issue of production or with other climatic issues, but I liked to see the thing much more by the positive, that is, all that capital, in the capitalist logic, 2.0, let's say so, in which we managed to generate wealth through the accumulation and the circulation of that same capital, or in the end we are talking about what nature gives us in goods and services, some of them public or private, but in its purest essence is how we manage to develop ideas, products, services based on what nature gives us or what we can help to produce. So it is a logic even integrated with an economic view of nature. On the side of companies, what role can biodiversity have as a strategic asset for competitiveness? Is it a kind of resource, also, economic resource, if we want to? It is literally the safety of life, so it's not just the product, thankfully, when we look at the forest we think a lot, ok, we have wood here, we have pasta here for the role, we have pine trees here, whatever, but then we have all another issue that we see happening and that we don't value so much, but the regulation of fire majority, the regulation of the erosion that avoids the fact that we had contaminated water and we had more costs to purify that water, the regulation of the landscape itself that makes it more interesting to visit and with that we have a series of economic activities that are connected, the attraction also of a safety and well-being session that leads to our own experience, leisure and sports, but also one thing that we want to talk a little more about today, a series of natural resources that exist here, that exist in this landscape, we have a holistic diversity, absolutely insane, we are blessed with a biodiversity... In Portugal? Crazy, yes, in Portugal, and a primary productivity is incredible, but we see it as a curse, we see the amount of species that we have, immediately from bats and annual species, that bring us an absolutely incredible wealth, and from the biotechnology point of view, bioeconomy, as we are going to talk here a little, open doors for the 21st century and we are still managing as if it were a curse of the 19th century, so we really need a return to this context. Professor Manuel Pintato, what are the sectors nowadays where this bioeconomy can generate more impact? Imagine the agriculture, the forest, but there are more concrete ones, I imagine. Yes, yes, yes, I would say that bioeconomy can be applied to all sectors, of course at different speeds, but above all I consider that agriculture, or the agricultural sector and the forest area have a huge value of resources, I think it is where it has been most explored and above all many of the solutions that have emerged in recent years have been concentrated a lot in the forest, where in fact wood is a very important resource, it is renewable and must always be used responsibly, because renewable implies a strategy to ensure that this renovation is done with quality and keeping biodiversity natural. But there are two extremely important sectors and where the investment, the creation of new molecules, products and services, has gone perhaps with greater intensity, also leaving the area of ​​the sea, a bioeconomy that is very expensive in Portugal. Exactly, that is why I have to highlight every time more what we call the blue bioeconomy, where we also use marine resources and we also manage to create new molecules, products and services, has increased and Portugal has invested a lot in this area. However, I highlight here that one of the fundamental tools for this bioeconomy of any of the sectors that is also in growth is without a doubt biotechnology. Biotechnology is a fundamental tool that uses microorganisms, that uses enzymes and that uses natural products, natural resources to actually be able to obtain products of greater value. This allows us, even, to create bioinocules, for example, for the generation of the sun, to create biofertilizers through sub-products that allow to feed in a clean way and with the health of the sun, in another enormous set of examples that we can give. But we consider here that, in fact, biotechnology is one of the old technologies, but it will continue to be a future technology for this bioeconomy. I imagine that it puts some challenges, this scientific knowledge, all of these scientific innovations will be put into practice. How does this scientific knowledge be transformed into practical solutions? I've already talked about new bioactive ingredients or materials that will also be developed in Portugal and that can be the future, right? Yes, first of all, development has to do with promoting a co-creation model. The university, science cannot be separated from the economy. And therefore, more and more, when the development of co-creations in the universities, we have tried to involve them, if I'm not mistaken. It's not just that it goes through a company, obviously, the company is the one that will capitalise our value in the middle of the economy, but then we have also involved other NGOs and other entities that also help us communicate, even influence public policies, many times with this investigation we do. Once a lot of this bioeconomy creates value and in Portugal we have many examples. We have examples of sub-products, for example, the wood production, which right now are in packaging, are in antimicrobials and preservatives. So there are already examples, of course, in Portugal in development, or even, for example, in our center of research, a lot of work in re-use of water, the removal of pollutants and the production of biopolymers to incorporate bioinoculars. Therefore, we, in particular, in the work of valuing the loss of woods that are not used and that can also have an important role in controlling and avoiding the fires in the production of high-value molecules, such as aluminum, which can be used even as a bio-pesticide agent. Therefore, there is, in fact, at this moment, a potential. What is the most critical point? It is to be able to find the right model for each of these models. Because, many times, the investigation, when it is not analyzed, from the point of view of the impact it will have on the environment, and economically, we cannot apply it in the right way. Therefore, here, more and more, these multidisciplinary teams that bring this knowledge of the economy, of the environment, of society, including and also all innovation, are essential to ensure that we reach the end and have a real impact on the economy, in the environment and in our society. There are, in fact, challenges and barriers to pass from research to the market. The INBI may have a word to say, but what are these challenges? Is it regulation? Is it financing? There is also a question of the cultural consumer. - What are these barriers? - Both things simultaneously, at the same time. - All the way, all at the same time. - Exactly. With one more point that can be quite critical, which is, in physics, it talks about potential energy and kinetic energy. Potential energy and energy that can happen, kinetic energy is when it is happening. And we often use the word "potential". Potential is there, but if the potential does not have a nut, if it does not have a button, it does not walk, it does not move. And, many times, what happens is precisely that. We have the ideas, the academy does an incredible job, but we, as society, are a bit hesitant in how to invest. And when we think about investing, we think about how I will quickly recover my investment. And here are some products that are slow-created. What is funny is that the country, which is the world's largest court reporter, has difficulty in understanding what the slow-created value of high value has increased. It does not stop being curious. And what we see here in society is that we are very dependent, we are very dependent on the fact that there are such units, such that they push by part of the State, which is interesting, but it is not necessarily positive. Because it means that we do not have the capacity to generate our own capital to invest. Much due to the lack of this capacity to, let's say, to believe that it is worth it, and to want to have results very quickly and to see some, let's say, some lack of capacity to master the anxiety of our own markets. But the truth is that this path is walking. And when we see that there are companies and entities that can take the first steps, and we have several good examples of transmission of technology between the academy and the companies, we, in the midst of the pandemic, had the opportunity to work with another company to develop a project called BioBlock COVID. The BioBlock COVID was basically what we were looking for in Silvestre plants in our flora. And try to understand if they have interesting components, things like tarpons and other components that are super interesting, in silvestre plants that do not sometimes exist in cultivated plants, because sometimes it is necessary to have a little stress to produce certain components. If the plants are very well accommodated, do not produce high-quality and grown components. It's curious, isn't it? Nature is like chocolate milk, it works best after the bath. So these things are quite curious. And this project opens up a series of doors and perspectives that are super interesting also for people who work in the field of producers, farmers and rural owners, because many times we have areas that are not necessarily with great agricultural appetite or florestal appetite, but they can have appetite for other things in the field of production of these silvestre plants. We have a little bit of a fall here to try to understand that if the carbon is not the carbon credits that are going to save all the people, I have a lot of doubts. To tell you some certainties that are not so far away, but I really believe that if we believe in nature we can have outcomes, we can have these results. And part of these outcomes goes precisely through the potential that exists from the bioeconomy part of all this tourist diversity. This is just a very simple indication. We are now losing about 250,000 hectares of forest areas, forests, mosaics, rural mosaics. If we did a very simple account in which every hectare could have an economic potential term to produce important components for the industry, it could be industrial, construction, pharmaceutical, cosmetical. One thing is for sure, I may not know what the number is, but you will know what the number is. The number is simply calculated, it is greater than zero, it is much greater than zero. So what we lost with the loss of 250,000 hectares was much greater than zero. If this does not appear in our accounts, we will once again think that this is going to happen if we have public money to recover. That is to say, we are a country that is still here with short-term maintenance in terms of public money. And it is also necessary to think that public money is excellent if you can also overcome the private initiative and the private initiative itself, to believe that there is a way to do it in this sense. Mr. Manuela also has, from your point of view, more academic and ideas, how do you quickly go from the investigation to the market? And in fact, the businessmen are aware of this pressure to recover these investments? Yes, and I spoke a little about this model of co-creation, which must be started as soon as possible, when we start with the idea, because many times we have two models, the most fundamental investigation, which is also very important and creates new ideas in which the investor puts himself, question himself about what happens and the potential of nature, for example, and then when the idea is closed, he talks to the company. For example, sometimes the idea is not completely adjusted to the application, so more and more, and I think that the funding programs themselves have said so, is to join the company directly with the investor and work together, because the challenge, many times, of the economy or of the product, requires continuous support from the investor and the company that will explore it. And so, this has been our model, for example, we have a co-creation model within the university, we have a company, one of the largest companies in the world, that is co-creating with us, and with many other companies in which we do joint projects, we have startups, I would say here that it is also a very important role to start up, because... Because it is a figure that is already born a little bit from that middle, between the academic and then the market, right? The so-called incubators, almost. Completely, we have many student groups that grow ideas and that themselves, unfortunately we would like to have more in the country, they are more entrepreneurs, but they, with these ideas, start working their own business. And we at the university have this responsibility in facilitating and helping them. We have a very concrete example of a company that values its products, agri-foods, fruits, that is, everything that is fruits, and creates, at least, three new ingredients. And at the university, together with companies of greater dimension, it is also very important to catalyse the junction of companies that can invest and that can support these startups, create a very valuable ecosystem of value. So every time more, you are fundamental to this model of co-creation, every time more multi, because it also allows you to cross more barriers quickly. And above all, as soon as possible, from the idea, to guarantee us that this idea translates into the best possible impact on the market. No, Portugal can even become such a laboratory country for an bet in this biological diversity and research. And to ask you, at what point are we, or who are our biggest competitors, there are countries that are well ahead of us in this matter, and what do we have to do to get closer to this reality? Homework, what we have learned in school. I wanted to highlight what Professor Manuel was saying. My base is biology, ecology. There is a word that is fantastic, which is symbiosis, co-creation is no more than symbiosis. And the difference between symbiosis and co-creation is that co-creation, which is when two organisms, I'm trying to solve a problem, symbiosis is when two different organisms create a new thing, create a third entity. And we often choose this precisely in that sense. And understand that Portugal has not only an incredible natural capital, like a social capital, an intellectual capital, and an even emotional capital, quite interesting. We are a country that is used historically to face giant challenges. We have crossed the sea to reach the other side of the world. It was because the other side was Spain, it was not very good to say that it was complicated. So we know how to make these difficult decisions. We know how to make difficult decisions. And fortunately, we build a solid relationship and a very cooperative relationship with Spain, for our good and for everyone's good. But if Portugal really has this... It has a bit of a fatalism, right? We are the country of fatalism, we see 70, always seeing the glass half empty, there are those who tend to see the glass half full, other countries drink the glass while others argue. This is what is happening. For example, we have countries, in this case, of the most advanced, like Finland, which have a whole area of development, economic, circular and bioeconomy to prosper. And Finland has rural areas. It is a very different climate than ours, but then let's see what is happening in Catalonia too. What is being done in this region? What is being done in Italy? What is being done in southern France? And really what we see is that many times what is the true seed of innovation is the will. And we do not lack the will, but we lack the capacity to return to that real will. And here what I wanted to highlight, very simply only two aspects that are the most critical. As a society, we have to look at the real country that we have, and the real country still has fascinating islands, and the amount of resources that exist there that can generate benefits for local communities is insane. Any number that I say is an imaginary number. It is better than zero. It is much better than zero. And then we have another question that sometimes is, we have a complicometer that I do not know how to explain. For example, we have serious problems with invasive exotic species, invasive exotic species, such as the grass of the plumes, the canes, the grass, and so on. And then we have a legislation that does not allow us to use these plants to produce anything. And then we have the word "football" that we even eat. But then we don't eat what we can do with invasive exotic species. From the point of view of food, construction, innovation, there is so much that can be done. And the only thing we have to think about is, we need money to control invasive species to remove those plants. Let's think the other way around. How can we generate income for local communities from supporting small businesses to having large companies in the field too? The university is the key to a symbiosis, to be able to happen. But we have to have the entrepreneur spirit, also to unlock some barriers, to go down a little bit with the pelicometer and to believe that it is possible. It seems to me a great idea also to close this episode of Votos Circulares. I have with the CEO of NBI, Nuno Oliveira and also with the professor Manuela Pintat of the Catholic University. The state of return is then Votos Circulares in the next season. It is a podcast from Observer in partnership with the Smart West Association of Portugal and in this episode we meet with the support of NBI. Join us in the next program and continue to know everything about sustainability and circular economy.