Indigenous Perspectives in Early Childhood Education - The Early Childhood Exchange

Introduction Before we begin, I'd like to acknowledge the Warandry Warang people of the cooler nation as a traditional owners and custodians of the land on which we live. We live on stolen land. Sovereignty was never ceded. Welcome to the Early Childhood Exchange, the podcast that explores the world of early childhood education. Join us as we engage in meaningful conversations on topics that matter, from developmental milestones and inclusive practise to the impact of play and family engagement. Each episode features insightful discussions with educators, experts, and advocates who are dedicated to creating a nurturing and enriching environment for children. Whether you're a parent, teacher, or simply curious about the future of education. TuneIn as we tackle these important conversations, one small voice at a time. Speaker 2 When I talk to young children about Aboriginal people, they the way that they've been taught, they think that Aboriginal people existed in the past. That's because often teachers use past tense when they're talking. They might say, oh we're under, people cared for this country and I did, and they continue to care for this country. So it's about really making sure that young children are understanding that Aboriginal people continue to take care of their country, they continue to practise their culture. Speaker 1 Welcome to Season 2, Episode 2 of the Early Childhood Exchange Podcast. Today's topic is Indigenous Perspectives in Education and I'm joined by Shannon Burke and Alinta Williams. So Shannon is a Garawa woman and an ECT who has worked in early childhood settings for 15 years. She's currently an early childhood organiser at the Australian Education Union. Alinta is a Nunawal Nambry woman and primary teacher. Recently she completed her master's of education in equity, diversity and social change. Alinta works as one of the First Nations organisers at the Australian Education Union. Welcome. Speaker 3 Thank you. Thank you. Fantastic. Speaker 1 Well, it's nice to have you here, both of you here today. So I guess let's just get into it. I I wanted to ask as our first question, what does decolonizing mean and why is truth telling important? What does decolonizing mean and why is truth telling important? Well. Speaker 3 First of all, thank you so much for having us here. And I'll just acknowledge that we're on Rundary country and acknowledge our elders past and present, and be grateful to them for the work that we can now do. And yeah, decolonizing is a big word, and I suppose we can think about it in that big sense that we have to think about decolonizing because of colonisation, because of invasion, because of the subsequent oppression of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in this country. I suppose when we think about it in the context of education settings, that's it's really important to think about the colonial systems in which we teach and work and to sort of unlearn or unpack those and think about how we can disrupt those systems. Speaker 2 Yeah, I'll just add some of those colonial values that exist in Western society. Things like the input, you know, the the value placed on power, money, standing land, property, things like that. Overriding what we would see as as a multi colonised approach, which is things like being in community with each other, taking care of each other, taking care of country, revitalising languages and culture because those things have been suppressed in this country and they continue to be suppressed in in different ways. Speaker 1 And So what would you say? So just going back, you know, just thinking about the listeners is, you know, preservice teachers going, you know, and we have a we have a lot of international students. The concept of being on country So when we talk about this concept of being on country, that is huge. It's huge to try to understand because when we talk about country, we just talk about, you know, somewhere in Europe or somewhere in Asia or, or that. But when we're talking about it from an indigenous perspective, it that. Can you unpack that for us? Yeah. Speaker 2 So it's important to understand that wherever you are in this country that's currently called Australia, you are on an Aboriginal person's country. So here in Footscray we're in Orandry country, the mighty cooler nation. And it's important not to confuse country with remote Central Australia or something far flung away. Those are those are Aboriginal people's country. But wherever you stand, whether it's the CBD out at Werribee Gorge or on Yoda, Yoda Country on the on the on the river, there you are in somebody's country. Country is place. It's connected to place, it's connected to identity. In early childhood, our first outcome is about children's identity. And for Aboriginal people, country is implicitly connected to identity. You might hear Aboriginal people talk about country as if it's a person. So often people might refer to country as mother people. Aboriginal people might refer to country. In the context of I'm going back home on country, that means that they're going back to their ancestral lands where their where their people come from. Speaker 3 I suppose, yeah, just to understand some sort of the context of it from a personal opinion. So I'm not from this country, I'm from Canberra and and from NSW. I have ties to ancestral NSW and and Canberra. So for me, when I go back to country, that is really important kind of nourishing time for me to to spend being there, being with family. And when I'm here, I try to remember that how important that would be an is for orandry people and how that needs to be respected and acknowledged and considered in the way I go about my life. So in in a classroom context or in an education setting, there's a real opportunity to think about the country that you are on or teaching on or that the children are learning on and do that place based learning. Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah. And what about would you say that it's OK not to know all this? It’s OK not to know everything I mean, it's because it's a lot. It's a lot to know. It's a lot to reframe for yourself as well. So can you, yeah, maybe just shed some light on that because sometimes it feels like you do you need to, you want to know everything, you want to do the right thing, but it's OK. Speaker 3 Sure. And I mean, I think I'll, I'll say for myself, I don't know everything either. So I think it's really important for us all to position ourselves in a place of openness and wanting to learn and wanting to know and to acknowledge that, yeah, we don't, we don't all have the the knowledge that we might need to do this. And So what is then our responsibility to to learn? And it's OK and it takes time and there'll be mistakes along the way, and that's OK as well. So don't feel like you have to take everything on, but what can what, what can you consider in in the way that you live and learn and work on country and sort of start, start small. Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, I'll just add to that. I actually went, I actually studied at VUI, said three MA diploma and I worked at the Chocolate Centre across the road. I'm not sure if it's still there. It was on Geelong Road, Foots Great Park Children's Centre. OK. I don't, I don't, I'm not too sure either. But yeah, as a young person, I was 19 at the time, pretty strong in my average Aboriginality, but also learning how to be an educator. So there's two sort of skills there that you're learning at the same time. And for me, I just started with the flag. The flag is such a big identity for Aboriginal people. There's so much knowledge and history behind it. If you have a look at the history of, have a look at the meaning behind the colours, it's something that's really engaging for young children. That was my my starting point for me. This this isn't something you can learn in a week, a month, a year. It's ongoing. Your allies ship is ongoing, an ongoing journey, an ongoing commitment in your career and you'll come. You know, it's important for allies, for non indigenous people to let go of any kind of defensiveness that they might feel around not knowing. And if you're told that something isn't quite right, you need to be open to that change. It's a gift when somebody reaches out to you and says, hey, actually you've got the flag upside down or, or it's great that you're showcasing aboriginal sports stars in the classroom. But my daughter, she just loves books. So can you include some writers or can you include some actors or, you know, whatever different interests that a child might have and not, you know, knowing that we are diverse peoples with many skills and strengths and attributes, attributes as well. So, yeah, it's a gift when somebody reaches out, an Aboriginal person reaches out and says, hey, have you thought about doing this? It might be yeah, challenging to to hear, but but that person has felt comfortable enough to approach you, so you should consider it a gift. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I had a conversation at my son's kinda because they were doing an acknowledgement and they were using the word thank you. And so we had a big conversation with all the teachers. Speaker 2 Like thank you for sharing the land. Speaker 1 Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we, you know, because I, the unit that I teach and, and convene at the at through the graduate diploma, we talk about play space, place based learning, you know, so I'm picking up heaps all of the time through what I'm like reading and learning and understanding. And, you know, and I've, I've definitely, you know, come leaps and bounds. So it was nice to be able to then have this conversation openly with my son's kinder teacher. And so they changed it across the whole kindergarten and they're like, they didn't even know because you know that you just you think, OK, I'm I'm doing this, I'm doing something. It's better than nothing. But when you can sort of refine it and and make it even better and you're receptive, you know, that's it was a great point that you made. Speaker 2 Yeah, and touching on place based and something you said before about international students coming to this country, you'll find a greater sense of belonging if you're connecting with aboriginal perspectives because that is the first culture, that is the first languages of this land, that is the first knowledges of this land. Aboriginal Perspectives You know, we, we welcome people of all, all colours and nationalities, religions like we're open people. We're in this place where we are now. And yeah, if you want to feel that sense of belonging and understand where you are and where you're situated in this country, connecting with our with our knowledges and cultures is the way to do it respectfully. Yeah. Speaker 1 And why would you say so? There's knowledge, protocols, and why would you say we need to put First Nation voices first? Speaker 2 Yeah. So knowledge protocols are things that guide the way that we do aboriginal perspectives. So, you know, often you might some sort of tokenistic or poor practise, you might say is that stereotypical kind of, oh, let's bring out the dot paintings, let's bring out the cotton buds and some paint. So that would be, we would say that that's not been done considering knowledge protocols because it's not considering what where we are situated in, in Melbourne on Morandra country. It's not taking consideration the country that you're on. Dot painting doesn't belong to this country. It's in different other parts of Australia on a Morandra country. It's much more line based. There's contemporary modern artists that you can be drawing on that that do all types of different artwork. Aboriginal art is art done by Aboriginal people. It doesn't need to look look a certain way. Of course we have our traditional methods as well. But yeah. So knowledge protocols guide sort of what sort of things you might be considering in your classroom, like being local based, thinking about the people, like it's really important not to raise people in your in your, in your learning experiences. So, you know, sometimes we can lean back on native animals or something and think that that might be an aboriginal perspective. But where are the people? Like what are we, what are we thinking about or under people and what sort of values to where people hold that might might be well placed to share in the in the classroom. For example, those values that we touched on before, like taking care of country. There's also knowledge protocols around language use. So especially in Victoria and other SE Australian mobs, countries, language groups, language is sleeping or it's being revitalised and so sometimes there are permissions that need to be gathered in order to share language. It's not like you do a course on Spanish and that you can speak Spanish, you know, whenever however, and you can maybe be a Spanish teacher. That's not what it's like for aboriginal languages because we have to remember that our languages were stolen from community. People were it was illegal to speak language. People were punished speaking language. So there's, it's highly, you know, highly emotional, it's highly political and you know, you might, you have to seek permission to to share things like language and cultural practises. And that's not generally we're not talking about when we're talking about embedding aboriginal perspectives. Leaning back on cultural values is the Safeway to do it. You're not, you're not teaching people of cultural dances or you know, how to do a smoking ceremony or, or how to speak. We will. We were wrong. Which is or under a people's language, unless you have permission to do those things. Speaker 3 And I think there is guidance here. So thinking about what you said around First Nations voices, you don't have to just sort of figure this out for yourself. So VI, which is the Victorian Aboriginal Education Association Incorporated has early childhood cultural protocols that you can use. You can access from their website or from search online and it has a lot of detail exactly speaking to what Shannon said and and even more around ways in which you need to think about teaching and learning when it comes to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander perspectives. So that is an organisation that is self determined organisation run by queries in in Victoria. So you know that if you go there first, that's it's a good first stop. That's First Nation's voices coming first in that instance, yeah. Speaker 1 Terrific. And so I just want to frame, so you're talking about that we're not that we need to share culture, not teach, not explicitly teach like a cultural. Speaker 2 Teaching cultural practises. That's right. Speaker 1 So I guess you know, myself, I've seen it happen often in, in early childhood settings where they have that tokenistic table set up with artefacts that are indigenous that they probably brought from modern teaching aids. And it's there and they've ticked the box and they say, Yep, we're, we're embedding Aboriginal culture into our setting and that's it. So I guess I preface that story by asking the question, what do you want early childhood teachers to do? Speaker 2 Yeah, I've definitely seen that table before in my. I was a casual relief teacher. I walked into a classroom and had that table in the middle of the room. It had an upside down Aboriginal flag. Yeah. And it had an African drum sitting on the table and it had pictures of really dark skinned Aboriginal people. And when I saw it, first of all, I fixed the flag up the right way. When I saw it, I was like, oh, this these people don't know where they are. They don't know the community that they exist in. They're not connecting with their community. And so for me, the if I was telling an non Indigenous person, you know, where to start, it actually starts outside of the classroom. So it starts by connecting with local community. And that's, that can be through attending events. So there's so many local events that people can go to. And that's where you'll be starting to hear the same kind of, if you go often enough, you'll start to hear the same kind of messages around what Aboriginal people want for their community, for their family, for the children. You'll start to hear values coming through. You'll start to learn about things like treaty that's happening in Victoria, which we can touch on later as well. So I want people, I want early childhood teachers to get outside their classroom on the weekend and go to an event like Share the Spirit, which is happening this Sunday. Go to a local Aboriginal community event. If you're not sure if it's an open event, if you're not sure if non Indigenous people can go, contact the event organiser. We're very welcoming. Usually, unless it says it's for mobile only, you can assume that it's an open event for everybody. So yeah, get out into your community because then you'll start to understand what the country that you exist on. If you listen to Orandry people talk, doing their welcome to countries, you'll start to understand what their values are and then you can embed that into your classroom. It's not a table, it's we're learning it. It's thinking, considering what are you learning already and what can you learn about Aboriginal culture, Orandry culture, Victorian quarry mobs culture that you can embed in what you're already doing. So you might be learning about the weather. It's a really easy one for me to think about. We know as Aboriginal people that The Four Seasons, the four European seasons don't fit this, this land that we're on in Melbourne, you know, we talk about all the time. There's Four Seasons in one day. There's about 7 or 8 more injury seasons. And yeah, it's, there are things that children can easily engage in. There's there's kangaroo apple season, there's tadpole season, there's. A dry grass summer season, there's all these different things that you can then bounce off and think about experiences and ideas and ways that children can engage in those things without it just being a table in the room. And then so you're doing that, you know, as as much as you can and as as you start, you'll start with that one thing. You might, it might take you 6 months to think about, OK, I'm going to learn about the seasons. We're injury seasons. How can I admit that throughout my practise and then when I feel really confident with that, I'm going to start with the next thing. Like we said before, you don't have to do, yeah, don't have to know all of this in one go. Yeah. Do you want to add to that? Speaker 3 Yeah, I will. Thanks, Shannon. I think there's also your pedagogical practise and how we, how we teach. Shannon’s pedagogical practice And I think there's a, there's a few important things to think about. 1 is that many of your Aboriginal director and students in your education setting will speak Korean English and to acknowledge that as a dialect and to not think that it's your job to correct that or change that, but to acknowledge, to understand, to listen to what that means for community. And you've a really unique opportunity in that sense to reach out to families and to to parents and to carers and to extended families and ask them to come in to share their knowledge, to read a story. I remember doing that in my own child's early childhood classroom and we had such rich conversations with these really young people around Banjul. And we did singing and that, you know, they, they really connected deeply with not just sort of these surface level, let's throw some things on a table, but with, yeah, the stories that are so important to have as a foundation to their knowledge and to the way in which we want to live and be in our world, which is to understand, we need to care for country or we won't have country to live on. To understand we need to care for others and, and not just as an individual, but how we are as a collective. And that comes back to the union values of solidarity, how we can be together. So, yeah, I mean, honestly, I think if we can get our 3-4 and five year olds and younger to to understand that our young people understanding that, it'll really, really, really be a fantastic positive. Speaker 1 Children. Yeah, children have. Really good at that, yeah. You know, they. Yeah, they want to care yeah. For country. They want to care about, you know, all living things. So if we start there, we're gonna just raise them to be a generation that that cares about our country. Speaker 2 That's right. Shouldn't have a very strong sense of justice and what's fair and what's not fair, they'll tell you all the time that's not fair. So we need to tap into that. Our families, Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander families are our greatest resource. But you can't be making requests of somebody before a relationship is built. So we have to remind ourselves that education systems, health systems, any kind of system have not been positive places historically for Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander people. So there, you know, there can often be some some barriers to overcome. And so starting off with a strong relationship before you start making asks of people, it's really important. Speaker 1 You mentioned tradie, yes, let's circle back to that. What can non-Aboriginal people do to support trading? So this treaty is happening in Victoria. What can non Aboriginal people do? Speaker 3 To support trading. So yes, so treaty is very, very exciting actually that we get to live here and in a time where the first People's Assembly of Victoria facilitating treaty processes all around the state and as well as a statewide treaty. And so they've been doing a huge amount of work talking to mob all around Victoria about what they want to see change in all of the different systems in which we we live and work in and play in. And we've got this very unique opportunity, I think to engage with Treaty as non Indigenous people by going to Treaty Day out. They have fantastic events, lots of music, a big celebration. They they host lots of different events that are open to everyone and they're really wanting people to engage. And they've got a fantastic website that you can go on to and learn more about treaty. They've got all of the assembly members there as well as you can look at who the members are and you might know some people from your local area. Just a really fantastic opportunity for non indigenous people to engage with mob in Victoria. So yeah, I would say get online, look at the website, go to events like Shannon mentioned and lots. Speaker 2 Of community outreach events like forums and stuff that you can go to and chat with people Treaties not just for Aboriginal people, it's for non indigenous people in Victoria as well. Speaker 3 Yes, that's right. And we know that to ensure that treaty is successful or the treaties are successful, that we do need everyone on board. We do need people engaging with it. We need everyone to have an understanding of why it's important. And part of the treaty process as well, or parallel to the treaty process, is the Europe Truth Telling Commission, which is going to release its report, final report this year. But that again was a really incredible opportunity for everyone, all people, to put evidence into the Commission around the impacts of colonisation. And those recommendations will then, along with, with the first People's Assembly and treaties, sort of be realised, I suppose, to understand now we have an understanding of, of what needs to change and why. And so we have these these actions that that we can take as a community to see real change and to see positive change and, and you know, in our interests that educational justice for for young people. So yeah, very exciting time. Speaker 1 And I know they're calling this generation the treaty generation, which is which is beautiful. Let's. Speaker 3 Isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I. Speaker 2 Just want to add something else that I think it's important about, you know, when we're thinking about what early childhood teachers should be doing. Sometimes when I talk to young children about Aboriginal people, they, the way that they've been taught, they think that Aboriginal people existed in the past. And that's because often teachers use past tense when they're talking. They might say, oh, we're under people cared for this country and they did and they continue to care for this country. So it's about really making sure that young children are understanding that Aboriginal people continue to take care of their country, They continue to practise their culture. Auditing your resources Another thing teachers can do is audit their resources. So having a look at the books and resources that you have to consider whether, yeah, you are presenting a modern contemporary current view of Aboriginal people because, yeah, again, that contributes to the idea that Aboriginal people don't exist anymore. And that's that's when we're talking about colonisation. That's what that's what justified the taking of this country, is that we didn't exist here. We didn't use the country here. And you know, they talk about Tasmania that there's, there's no Aboriginal people left there, which we know is wrong. There's Palo people there. And so decolonizing is pushing back against that those colonial ideas that we don't exist and that we existed or with that we existed in the past. And talking about us in the present tense, even when I've worked with young Aboriginal people, young Aboriginal children, they can pick up those ideas as well. And you know, they might practise cultural dancing on the weekend or once a month or so. And they might consider themselves that they're only Aboriginal if they're painted up or, or, or they're dancing. And so that's that, you know, our adults responsibility to say, Oh no, baby, you're, you're Aboriginal, Aboriginal all the time. Speaker 1 Because I think, yeah, there is this perception that, you know, the Aboriginal people are primitive and hunter gatherers and, and that's where they exist in this, you know, painted up and with, you know, clothes. But Aboriginal people exist in everyday society and they they eat Vegemite and toast with bananas for breakfast. Do you know what I mean? Like, And so I think that there is this idea. And then if we are just feeding children these ideas, then we're not really going to be an inclusive space. Speaker 2 Or it's not truth telling. Yeah, yeah. And they get enough of that imagery from media or in the outside world. So you don't need to even think about that sort of stuff. You need to think about strength based, showcasing Aboriginal people's strength and encouraged to, you know, continue to fight for justice in this country and fight for and take care of country as well. I just want to, I just want to say to early childhood teachers who might be Aboriginal or Tarsha Islander yourself, care is community care. So teaching is not, it's not the safest place for us. So you need to build yourself up, you need to have a community of Aboriginal people around you to feel good in this work. Connecting to other Aboriginal educators is the best thing that I ever did as a teacher. Join your union. I have to say that I'm a union organiser, but we have two amazing First Nations organisers at the AU who are doing deadly work with Aboriginal educators and teachers. And the thing that union members talk about to us is that sense of belonging and that sense of connection with other mob as a way of well being in this work. And then also you're going to come across people who are racist in your work as well. You're going to come across colleagues, families, potentially, and while you might feel that's your job to, you know, present truth or or to represent your culture, don't waste too much time arguing your humanity with people who aren't going to change their mind. So I just wanted to share that for mob who might be listening because it's what kept me going for so long in the work and just keeps me going as well. Speaker 1 Thank you I'll. Speaker 3 2nd that, yeah. Speaker 2 All right, I'm sorry. And put energy. I just wanted to have one more job point. So yeah, don't waste time fighting about your humanity with others. Put that energy into your community, into your family. Yeah. Speaker 1 Terrific. Just rounding off our Chad, do you have a story of great practise that you have seen happening in early childhood in an in an early childhood setting? Great Practices in Early Childhood So I worked with a like a baby's room. So I was, I used to work in a long day care centre and there were a few children there from Yoda. Yoda Country, which is up north northern Victoria, Atrica, those sort of areas along the Dungala or Maori River. And so we wanted to think about how we could connect young children, like I'm talking 18 month old 2 year olds with with country when they're in Melbourne in on war and true country. And so I know at the time there was an amazing opera slash interpretive dance that involved some Yori order singers and, and maybe they're contemporary dancers or ballet dancers, potentially. Deborah Cheatham is the opera singer. And we just, I was thinking about ways that young children might engage in a, a visual and, and audio recording of that. And so, you know, something that we often do in early childhood is we put some nice, lovely scarves in a basket. And so, yeah, I worked with the young, with the educators in that room to to put that, to put that the opera or the dance on a big screen or a projector. And we dimmed the lights and we put the the the scarves in, in this in a basket. And the children just reenacted what they saw in the screen. Really. Like they young children are very connected with music and then their their own bodies. And so they, you know, use the scarves to to, you know, represent what they were saying. And then also the educators used a big strip of long sort of blue fabric to represent the Dungalow or the Murray River. And so we're sort of having those conversations with the young children. And yeah, that was, I thought that was a really great example. I think often educators struggle with young children about like, really young children around what to do with babies and toddlers. So that was sort of the first thing that came to mind. Speaker 1 And such a nice simple Yeah. And it because it doesn't, I think people, yeah, they have these ideas in their head that it needs to be grand and they need to know all the right ways and they need to not offend and not and that sort of stuff. So then they miss an opportunity to just say what what's the story here? What do I know about, about country, the land? How am I translating this to children to experience it and it can be as simple as that? Speaker 2 When I'm thinking about how that was, that experience was able to be about, it's not something that I pulled out of a book or Googled that. It was like I had to know a few things to all the educated had to know a few things for that to happen. So they had to know about that this opera, this dance thing existed. They had to know that they were able to use that language name for the Murray River. That was allowed. And we knew that that was allowed because it was publicly published and and, you know, it was publicly available knowledge that they were allowed to use. They had to consider had to know and consider that young children, especially young Aboriginal children, use their bodies to learn, you know, so there's lots of things that they sort of had to be aware of and know and be open to before experience it like that can be created. And I think it might have, I think it might have come from knowing that that opera existed, might have come from the VI calendar. So we mentioned VI before and they actually have an education calendar that they put out every year and sort of goes month by month about things that might have happened in history at certain times. Like I think earlier in the year, the camera ganja walk off, which is a really important political movement in Victoria, Aboriginal people walked off missions and your other people, they still talk about that story today. They talk about every year they have like 50th, 150th year celebrations or not celebrations, commemorations of of that time. And so when you're connecting, you know, that's our shared history. That's not just Aboriginal history, that's a shared history. And for non Aboriginal people need to be aware that we had our we have and we continue to have our civic rights movement in this country. You might know MLK, Rosa Parks, but do you know, do you know anything about the camera ganja walk off? Do you know anything about the freedom rides in New South Wales? So yeah. Speaker 3 The via calendar. Speaker 2 The via calendar connects. Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. And yeah, Speaking of things that can be simple, you know in I've seen in in education settings, of course an acknowledgement of of country and unpacking that with so not just sort of saying it day after day without thinking about what it means and why it's important. So doing that really simple things like, OK, go out now and, and find something from country that that you like or, and come back in and talk about it. Oh, I chose this leaf because it was my favourite colour. Or, you know, anything like that is a, is a connection where an opportunity for children to think beyond themselves and, and to think about where they're living and why it's important to consider, acknowledge, reflect and respect on that every single day. So yeah, it doesn't have to be complicated. Speaker 2 No, you just reminded me of a simple one as well, using the Aboriginal Australia map. So I think every classroom in this country needs to have that map in their classroom. It shows a diversity of the language groups and in this country. And so, you know, it might be after the school holiday, after the holidays or after the Christmas break. You might talk about where people went on their holiday. So you might say, oh, Linda went to Nanbury Country, where's that on the map? Or do we have any books about from Nanbury Country? What's that about? And so there's some values or some, some pedagogy that you're sharing there. That is, we're not homogeneous culture. There are 250 language groups at least. And each, each country, each Aboriginal country comes with its own culture and knowledges and languages belief systems. So we can't, we can talk about the Rainbow Serpent in Victoria, but we can't talk about it without acknowledging whose country that the Rainbow Serpent came from. We know that Bungle is the creative spirit for or Andrew people. So if we are talking about a Rainbow Serpent, we should also be talking about Bungle because that's place based, that's local knowledge and that's our knowledge protocols is privileging local, local aboriginal knowledges. Speaker 1 Wonderful. Well, let's let's let's finish up for the for the session. Closing Statements Do either of you have any closing statements that you'd like? Speaker 3 To share, I think for me, maybe I'll circle back to the very beginning where we talked about do we have to do it all at once or do we have to have all of this knowledge? And I feel like we've spoken about lots of different things and it is a lot. So just taking us back to to the discussion at the beginning about not feeling like you have to take all of this on and just those small steps and changes that you can make. And also to acknowledge what Shannon said about if you are a mob and you're out there and you're doing this work, keep doing it. You're doing an incredible job. And yeah, look after yourself. Speaker 2 I'm going to yes, let me make sure is correct. If you're you know, if you're at the silence journey and you're feeling a bit overwhelmed, then know that yes, you don't have to do it all at once. But if you are a few steps along the journey and you're looking to challenge yourself, I'm going to put a challenge out to you today. And that is to find out what the Nadeau Quake theme is for this year. Find out, yeah, what the theme is. Usually the Nadeau Quake website will put out some additional background information around what the theme means. I want you to unpack that with your colleagues, whether it's as a team or with your Co educator, and think about how you can embed perspectives that relate to that theme throughout the year, not just Nat or Quick. Speaker 1 Wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Speaker 3 Thank you for having. Speaker 2 Us, yes. Serious, but fun, Yeah. Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you.