13. Inclusion and the Church with Jamie Lim Lee

(upbeat music) - Hey everyone, Mercedes here. I'm so excited to share with you the Lucky Few podcast will be headlining at Deer Mom Conference. Join us on November 3rd in Oramuta for our first official live event. Grab your tickets today at DeerMomConference.com. - We are thrilled to share with you an exciting episode coming later in the season. We are going to be doing the Lucky Few Ultimate Holiday Gift Giving Guide. Do you have a product that our listeners need to discover? Perhaps the perfect holiday gift? We'll get excited people because as the holidays roll around, we will be sharing with our listeners some of our favorite products. We are seeking submissions for our Lucky Few Ultimate Holiday Gift Guide episode. If you have a product you'd like us to consider, head over to the LuckyFewPodcast.com and fill out the gift guide form. We can't wait to hear from you. - Hey friends, welcome to the Lucky Few Podcast where we are shifting the narrative by shouting the worth of people with Down syndrome. This is Micah, Mercedes, and I'm Heather. - And today we are talking about inclusion in the church. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey you guys, we are so excited you're here today with us on the Lucky Few Podcast. We have been talking for several weeks about inclusion. The first couple of weeks of our season. And you know, we feel like they're part of what we talked about, when we talked about inclusion in education, was how inclusion really is about the entire community and about our kids becoming being made to feel like they are welcomed and loved and accepted in the community. And we want to talk about that from the perspective of church this week. And we know that not all of our listeners out there may be people who consider themselves to be religious or who have a faith community. We want you to know that you are welcome to be part of this conversation, no matter where you're at in terms of faith, because when we talk about church, church covers such a big, I mean churches can be across the board different from each other. And what we want more than anything is to have a conversation about making places of faith inclusive. And so we want to welcome you here to talk with us about church today and know that everybody is welcome to this conversation. - Definitely. - Yes. And I feel like for us, we are church goers. Let me just say that. Well, we're on a break, but it's complicated. We'll talk about later. Oh my goodness. That my husband worked for a church for a long time and helped plant a church. And I think it's one of those conversations if you're thinking of inclusive practices that until it's in your face, you don't think about it. Until I had a kid with Down syndrome, I didn't really fully recognize that schools were lacking desperately in being a place where community could happen for all people. And then every place in the community, all of a sudden it's in your face and then it's also the church. Wait a second, there actually isn't a place for my kid with Down syndrome in these walls. Whoa, whoa, whoa. And then I had to think about it. And so for us, because my husband worked for church and helped plant it and me see what's a beloved member of that church, there wasn't a special needs ministry. We can talk about this later on in the podcast when we bring our amazing guest on, who is very wise in all these spaces, that there wasn't like a special place for her to go and people just kept coming to Josh and I and saying, what do you think? What should we do? We don't know what to do. Like, well, we're not putting her in a separate class. Just she's a part of this. This is what we do. The lights are too loud. She's freaking out. Then turn the lights down. This is not a big deal, right? Or the music's too loud. Lights are too bright. Then to turn it down, not no big deal. Or this little writing thing isn't working for her and she's writing out a class. Well, then don't do the writing thing. Just change it. It's not a big deal to change something for one person. Everyone else can adapt. It's great. She's the one who's not adapting. So everyone else can adapt. So it was kind of our attitude and the church got huge. And they continued the conversation in a way that I appreciate. However, what's interesting is Mason. And I also have a sound with Down syndrome, which I don't talk about him as much because the experience is so different with a 10-year-old versus a four-year-old. And I want to bring that aspect to her. And I feel like with August, it's like, oh, been there, done that, which is not true. Anyway, I don't know if it makes sense. But Mason did not have a friend at church. We were there for five years. My husband was on staff. She did not have one friend at church. Are you kidding? Where are the friends? Oh, church. Oh, no. So that was our experience. So I think there's-- everyone has different experiences. That's what mine was. Mercy, do you see what your experience? I had two different kinds of experience. My husband is also in the church workforce field. I don't know what that is called. Church. Largy. You know church. You know church clergy. Church for sale. We go every Sunday. We are very much a part of it. And I've had two different kinds of experiences, one where he wasn't really well known in the church. So I kind of came and showed up as just probably general public person. And this one volunteer, Sunny, was three. Super chill, really easy going. Was like, I was like, hi, dropping off Sunny to the door. Because I forget. I live in a bubble where I'm like, hi, it's my daughter. Oh, wait, yes, she has Downstone. Remember you saw that. OK, let's talk about it. But sometimes I show up like, it's my daughter. Right. And she's like, oh, OK, you could tell it was very like caught off guard. Like, how am I going to handle this for an hour and a half here at church service? And she kept asking me, OK, so we have another boy that comes. And you know, he gets super hyper. So comparing, trying to put her in a category, saying, this one boy acts this way. So like, Sunny is going to act this way. So what's her focus? You know, say she acts out. What's her focus? And I was like, oh, you know, I don't know what her focus is, but she likes to sing. She likes to draw. She likes to play, OK, but say she gets out of hand. What will bring her back? What's her focus? And I was with Andy. And you know, I'm a really sweet person. And then I take it. I take it. And then I'm like, I'm so sorry. I have no idea what you're talking about. Can I talk to someone else? You know, and Andy steps in because he starts to see that I'm being super like I was happy. And then I'm mom a bear. I have a very short fuse. And once she said, like, what's her focus for when she gets out of hand, mind you, there is a bee. There's another three year old screaming at the top of his lungs for his mom to come back. Sunny was ready to join the classroom. Right. See you later, mom. I'm going to have the time of my life. What's his focus? I want to know what this kid's focus was. And so that was one. So I was like, oh, man, Andy, I don't know if we could be a part of this church. And then he was then a part of a different church where he had kind of a bigger role. And I, similar to you, Heather, were there like, how can we best support Sunny? But she's not powe train yet. She's five. We're working on it. When I first started the journey, I'm like, she's going to be powe train by two. Look at my girl. That was your problem. You don't say those things. Yeah, you don't say it out loud. And you just don't care. You just try and do your best. Because if she's peeing in her pants, she's not going to forever. It's fine. So if you're on the slow track, parents, OK, it's fine. Join me. And as she gets older though, and I'm having to tell the five and six-year-old class, she's not powe train. OK. So do you want her to go back? Do you want her to be in the two and three's class? No, she's fine. She's going to stay right here. And we'll figure it out. You can page me. You can call me. It's an only an hour and a half. We're going to cross our fingers. And if it's not number two, you just let her be, OK? Like, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Just like you want to look at people, but you're an adult. Like you've lived in the world. You literally know how to do it. What did I do? You should do it. Right. I mean-- And I think to myself, this is Sunday's school. So you're teaching-- I don't know. OK, I'm not going to go into that. But you're going to be fine for an hour and a half that we're in service and include sunflower in here and have a good day. And so-- But I also have a thing where I've just arrived with three kids after 45-minute drive. So I have a rule at church that you are now allowed to greet me and stop me and ask me how I'm doing. You let me get them to their classes. And then I greet you when I'm ready. So this is known at my church. I don't know what that says about me, but this is just known because it's a lot to get them there on my own. You are a goal. OK, that's it. I love you more stays. OK, so I have a couple of stories here. First of all, I grew up with this mother who when she was 13, I think a deaf choir came to her church-- something like that. She knew that moment that she was going to work with people who are hearing impaired or deaf the rest of her life. And she has. So she-- and she, in the course of becoming an educator, she got her master. and special education. So I, you know, and I've talked a little bit about this, I think, in the past of like my brother and I crying on the phone when I got ACES prenatal diagnosis and laughing, like my mom's dreams have finally come true. (laughing) And so I grew up in this church that had what was called in the '80s, the special education ministry, where my mom played the piano and we knew the names of everyone. And, you know, the people in that particular class would follow my mom and, you know, hugging her. And so I grew up in with that world. And we can talk all day about making the Sunday school class that's only for people with different abilities. But for me as a child, it was a beautiful thing. I was aware of how people could be different and how it could be lovely. And I'm really grateful to my church for that. At the same time, my mom was part of planting what ended up becoming its own deaf church. And so I went to, and this is, you know, this so funny to me now, I would say to my mom, "Are we going to hearing church or deaf church today?" Like when we say, "My mom still refers to hearing church when she's, "Oh, I'm going to hear your interagents in a little bit." (laughs) And so I also got to grow up in that world. And, you know, flash forward to my life now, where I'm in San Francisco at a church that is, you know, pretty, I would say, it's people who are living in San Francisco and make enough money to pay for rent, right? So it's like very educated people in our church. And it's like pretty academically rigorous kind of church community. And when I had, I've had a few visions in my life, you guys, we're gonna get real here. Get real spiritual. - I love it, good to see you. - So I had, after I got ACES prenatal diagnosis, I had this moment somewhere in those couple of weeks after where, you know, I was crying and praying. And I had this vision of this little boy walking up the steps of the building where our church meets. And he had these glasses on. And like, and now, you know, I, of course, picture it with ACES face. But I think it was pretty close to ACES face. - You were going to this church when you had this vision and you'd never see, okay. - No, this is my church. I was going to. - So I gave it to him. - Yeah. - So, but I saw I'm walking up the steps. And the vision was just this. Like, people everywhere saying, like, giving him high fives and hugging him and him, being at home and loved there. And, you know, I never would have at that point gone, I have a church that is, you know, very inclusive. 'Cause it really just didn't, there was not a lot going on there. But in the time that, that since ACES has been born, the woman who is in charge of children's ministry told me that like about six months before he was born, she had this vision of becoming a more inclusive children's ministry. And she sought out a training and she started, she didn't know what to do. And so she just started praying that children would come. - No. - And ACES came. And he came the biological way. But he came. (laughing) He came to our church. And so I say that just as this, like, I think we're, I feel like we are loved and welcome. And I also feel like there's, like, everybody's learning along with me. - Yes. - Yeah. (upbeat music) - Today, the Lucky Few podcast is sponsored by our good friends over at Love Everyd, where playtime is thoughtfully crafted by experts for your baby's developing brain. Stick around to find out about a special deal. Love Everyd is offering later in the episode. - Thank you, girls. And I'm so excited to be able to introduce our speaker, our guest speaker today, Jamie. Woo-woo! - Jamie. - So, Jamie. - Jamie. - Jamie. - Jamie. - I'd like to break out and talk to you. - We do too. - You can join in at any moment. - It's so good. - It's so good. - I like to get him and then the bebop being, it's just, let's do this. - Let's do this. - So, Jamie and I met during one of the most crucial years of our life because we were in the first year of our babies with Down syndrome's journey. And that's huge. And our stories are different, but what was beautiful is we got to share weekly, every Wednesday, and it's so powerful. Just our hopes and fears talk through this huge change. And even just being able to see each other every week, see where each other was at is the, are you barely assembling? - Yeah, all the different things. - Are you trying to? Awesome. Hi, let's go. - Are you barely making it? - Yeah, totally. - And you have this like crazy smile all the time that you would look at me and you're like, I'm not having a good time with the biggest smile ever. And I was like, is this a cry of help blink twice? - We need to meet intervieing. (laughing) - Like at the doctor, yeah. - Yes or no, we're meeting you. - Slide me a sheet of paper. - She's a paper. - And don't he's not, but. - I know, we've been smiling. - And just being like, oh, this is kind of a lot. - Do you know? - Or they're so perfect in every way. And that's was really at the end of every Wednesday, like group session. They're amazing. Like just bawling at the gift that we were holding in our arms that was just all so much to even comprehend, to handle or to verbalize. So that was how I met Jamie. We became fast friends and still today. So, hi Jamie. - Hi. - Hey Jamie, welcome. - Thank you for being here. - Thank you for having me, you guys. - So fun. So we'll jump into our topic. Jamie, you wanna tell us about yourself and tell us about the church. - Sure. - Well, tell us like that. - When singing a little bit. - Tell us about your world. - Sure. - Like, the church. - Hold your breath because it's about to get real. (laughing) Tell us about your family. Tell us a little history. Tell us about your son with Down syndrome. - Sure. - So I'm sitting across the table and I just heard a little bit of everyone's story. And I obviously know Heather and Mercedes chose this route. And it seems like Michael, you were a setup for like the best situation ever. And you were hardly ready. - I really was. - Gird yourself just because (laughing) when I share my story, it's a little bit of a downer in the beginning, but I promise that there's redemption at the end of it. I did not go into this journey willingly, I guess. This end chain, if you're hearing this later, just know that I love you and you made our whole lives. So, but in the beginning, I just didn't know better. And we got a diagnosis at around 12 weeks. And there was a span of maybe three weeks there that we were kind of teeter tottering on the edge because we actually encountered so much opposition to us continuing the pregnancy in the most violent ways possible that, like just as an example, I won't stay here long, but both sets of grandparents wanted to stage an intervention and drag me to the clinic themselves, which is kind of violent and awful. And these are all church-going, wonderful, sweet, as can be kind of people all of a sudden turn into, like, you know, kill that beast. You know, like it just got serious really quickly. And then, - It changed your first. - It changed my first, yeah. My first kid, we have a number two and we are done because we're just so full, okay? We're good. Her name is Shiloh. She's beautiful and they just make the perfect little pair. Rewind. So after, like, for those three weeks, I was actually a little bit scared for my safety, which as crazy as that sounds, I knew I was like, not to, like, you know, throw my dad under the bus. He's a specific kind of man. And you can't tell on this podcast, but I am Korean-American. I'm full-blooded Korean. And that, like, we, and why I'm saying that, like, we come from a very specific culture. And I think, like, a lot of the world, right? It's very shame-based. And so they were coming from a place where this human was going to be a reflection of our entire family line. And are, like, what does it say about me as your dad? What does it say about me, or what does it say about you? Like, how are you ever gonna go into Andrew's family and show your face again if you bring this baby into this world? And, like, just intense, adamant and disowning for months after that. And just, you know, like, and I'm sitting here and it's like, oh, no, this is not an assignment that I want either. Like, I promise you this. You know, this is not, like, this is, was not my dream. Right? And then Erin drew and I, I mean, we can talk about marriage and what that did to the both of us because we were on different pages for a little bit there. And like, and I think I was telling the ladies before this, but I didn't know and I've never seen it done before. And I've never, I don't, and the only times that I've seen it, seen it being like the special needs world is by other people, like not in my backyard, not in my culture. Because we as a culture are really good at, I'm putting this in air quotes, but addressing the problem, right? By not acknowledging the problem at all, either hiding it away if it's too late, giving it up into an institution and I say it in the way that they would, or aborting it, like starting over, nobody do, like erase that part of our history and move forward. And I just, and I think that that's why there's not actually not a lot of ton of yellow representation in the Downs and Drone community or just special needs community. Is that something that you were familiar with before the Stagnosis or that was all things that you realized? Or maybe there was a magnifying glass on it? So yeah, this, my mom had polio when she was five and she since then was physically disabled, which she basically has what I call the crumpled left leg and has a profound limp and therefore has never run a day in her life outside of pre five years oldish. And so I, but I never knew, I just knew her as mom, right? I didn't like lack for anything in interacting with my world because of it, but I was very well aware, I think, on a gut level of differences in capability physically. But I'm very, I was, I didn't realize this maybe until Shane, but, you know, Asian Americans in general are very like performance based in like their achievers and Shane culture or like their fillial piety, which is just like honoring the family first, like honoring the collective before the individual first was very embedded in my culture. And so I, and this is me born and raised Southern California, like I was born in Long Beach, you know, like, but I mean, the 1950s of my parents, sure, does not, like it dies hard, you know, like it's embedded in my blood almost, right? So it's very shame, kind of, or guilt or performance based. And it was just, I think, heightened by this experience of, oh no, this is not happening, Jamie, like I, I just want you to know, hella, high water, like this is not happening. And this was one of those times where I was like, and I'm worrying then, like how I'm going to dishonor my parents, they tried to uphold the community, the family first. And that is the utmost priority. And anything that kind of like sacrifices have to be made. And that was kind of one of the situations like Jamie need to make the sacrifice. Like that's not happening. So in any case, so culture wise, we obviously went through with pregnancy. Right. They came around. I mean, it's insane. Like they, it's one of the biggest testaments to like you can teach an old dog to tricks. Just meet my dad. Just see. He drove 45 miles yesterday to give Shane a cheesecake. Shane. I mean, stop. Like what? Hello, it's 10 p.m. Please leave. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, and then of course, he just by being born, like just by his presence, the four, the four grandparents, they get mad at us if we don't do something right by Shane. It's like, oh, excuse me. Oh, is this the dynamic? Okay. Oh, I get it. Oh, I'm so sorry. I don't care. I'm sorry. No, seriously, they're like, my dad's like, are you going to start lessons for him? Yeah. With this? Or are you going to be lazy? I'm just joking. I love it. But they care so much now. But that's kind of like, I'm sure you guys all have stories of that too, right? Where just by them being there, make a grown man weep. Yeah, like the ripple effects. The ripple effects. Like we can't, we can't even count the ways. I know. It's beautiful. And they get to carry a bit of Shane with them wherever they go. And they're influencing their spheres of influence in straight up awareness, right? Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, I think that we cannot express enough the power people have down to Japan. They do. They're mere trans people. And to literally change the world. Yeah. And Naomi doesn't even talk, really. Right. She does what I think about that. And he talks, and it's so very recently. Yeah. Like, he could just make eye contact. And sometimes it brings out the best or the worst. Right. It's 100%. But then it really, it's so clarifying at the end of the day. And that's always going to be a good thing. Right. And it's the mirror that people come up against and all their fears and insecurities. And it just happens to follow our kids. So, so that's, I, and how I'm sitting here with you guys talking about inclusion in the church is nuts because my journey in all of the arenas, whether it's school inclusion or church inclusion or speaking engagements like this, right? I fumbled my way through friends. Like, it's not, it's not like something that I chose to do. It just happened to me. And I pray and hope that I do it justice and honor because it does, it's not something that I was like, oh, yeah, like this is the road. And I'm going to go like, I'm like falling head for scraping my knees and curling my way to the finish line, not knowing what this looks like at all. And so many arenas, right? Like I still don't, sometimes when I see, for example, someone who looks like me and looks like Shane out in the world, I'm like, oh my God, same, same. Like look, we yellows. Like we are here. Like we are here. Like we are here. Right. No, I'm, I kid you not. So at the tools for the journey in conference, there was this woman who came up to me and was like, hi, me too. And I was like, oh my God, hi. We just sat down for about 45 minutes to be like, aha, hashtag me too. You know, like we really sat there and just said, what was your experience like? And it's just something that where I feel like seen and known without having to explain the subtle nuances of what this means. Right. Even if I'm born and raised here, it's odd. And in any case, yes. So Shane, how old is Shane now? He's five. He's starting to get a little bit of a shout out to Shiloh. Shiloh is three going on 30. Right. Yep. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Yeah. And he's starting kindergarten next Wednesday. Oh. Are you ready? As I will ever be. You are. Yes, you are. You got it. You got it. For sure. So do you want to, do you want to go ahead and talk to us a little bit about what, like, you've shared kind of what it was like for your, your parents? But what was your experience in the church as you were pregnant and as Shane, as Shane came, arrived in the world and arrived with you at church. Sure. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so I, that goes into actually a really good segue is in that time where we were deciding whether or not to continue with a pregnancy, we had a single voice. Because I just needed guidance. And when I really, really came down to it and this isn't Bible thumping by any means, but I have one boss and I just want to know what God has to say about this, right? And that was a really hard conversation because it didn't seem like, you know, in my mind, like, sovereign God, so good for me and loves me so much. And I was like, this does not feel like you're in control. This does not feel like you are good. And this surely doesn't feel like love for me. Right. This is hard. Right. like make this decision and our pastor, you know, I think he was so careful and he just said, "Jimmy if you want to know the truth, God wants you to have this baby." And he just kind of like slid it. It was terrible. And like it is obviously a large or kind of like, you know, conversation in lasted hours with lots of tears. But he's like at the end of the day, if you're asking for an answer, this is the answer. And as difficult as it is, you need to sit and grapple with that. And we will help you and honor you and support you whatever decision you make. Because your soul is safe and secure. It's not about like this is definitely not an abortion conversation. It was, "Do you want to step into this or not?" You have the freedom. And I was like, "Well, if you put it that way, my goodness." So it was just one of those times where I was like, "Okay, I also have personal experiences where I couldn't step into that world of abortion. And I like, if it's going to go live, I just couldn't step into that world. I think there was a bunch of healing that had taken place 15 years prior. And that I just came to a place where it's like, "Okay, well, I have the choice. And I'm a grown woman." And And this is a choice that I'm going to make now. And we just kind of said, "Hey, Church, we're coming for you. We're coming in hot." And so when Shane was born, he had several surgeries and we were just floating in oblivion for a little while there. It's so real. Like all those things that feel like they're going to be burnishment and important in the future which become during those surgeries, it's like, "All that's backwards." Right? You're just lighting a live lithium. Yeah. Literally alive. And the stress was so, I was a 30-year-old with shingles. Like, "This is a geriatric disease." I was like, "Geriatric?" I said, "Oh my gosh." So we're, I didn't even care about Down syndrome at that time. We were just like, "Oh my God, this is a whole new surprise." And we dealt with that. But by the time we went into church, they were like, "Cool, baby. Rad, let's just nursery." Yeah. Yeah, like great. Like, bye for that. Yeah, yeah. All babies are babies. Yeah, all babies are babies until they're. And until they're babies. They're like, "Bigger babies." When they become bigger babies. When they become bigger babies. So I, and as much as I was like, "We're, you know, I don't want to talk about my yellowness too much, but like my Asian kind of bringing, I was like, I totally careering in the whole situation. I did all the reading. I did all the homework. I was staying. I was sleep for like two years, I think, because I was like, "I'm going to know all the things." And so I spent a lot of time. I was like, "Rece, and at that time it happened kind of simultaneous to Shane's transition into the school district, right?" And so I was going to legal trainings with Wright's law from where we can hear in there. And just learning about the laws that dictated inclusion in our school, in our community. And I was like, "Okay, got that down." We were fully included in preschool, which I know that like I can speak to with great, great confidence. I knew the laws well enough to be well versed with attorneys. Like, let's go. Like, let's do this thing. And he's by the grace of God, not step foot into the NSDC class for that reason. And then I turned to the church and I was like, "Oh, wait. How come Shane's not graduating out of the nursery?" And they're like, "Oh yeah, well, when are you going to take into the special place?" And I was like, "Oh, the special place." No, no, no, we're not doing that because, you know, it's Shane. Remember? Remember? Yeah. And so there was, but then, so get this. It was kind of crazy because I felt like I quote, "Won this fight in the school district." And I was like, "Mike Tess, is this on?" Hold on a second. Are you telling me that the school district is out doing you in compassion? This can't be right? Yeah. And I was like, "This can't be right. Hold on a second." Okay. Do we want to dance around in the school's laws or biblical laws? Because I can do both now and we need to have a conversation. And at that time, it took about a year to just, I was like, "Hi, I wanted to talk about that thing one more time and during that year, Shane was in the nursery." Wow. I'm how old was he? Like two-ish. Yeah. It was right. Like doing the two to three transition, which is, you know, mom's like, "We got you." You know, like two to three. That, it was a huge jump, right? So conversation, conversation, and our church, you know, to the best of their ability. They're like, "Well, why is, you know, the special place not special for you?" And I was like, "Separate and equal. We learn this when we desegregated our schools and our church is membered that one time." Like, you know, separate and equal. We know this as fact. And it's because I was coming in from learning all the laws of our land to now, like, wait a minute, hold the phone. Okay. And so, oh, here too. Right. And it was one of those like, "Oh, here too. Oh, no. Yeah. Like, I thought you had it figured out. Yeah. I was like, "Wait. I thought, like, you know, y'all talk about Jesus, says, let the children come." And like, he's a child. You know, let him come. Like, stop going elsewhere. Yeah. I have a couple of clear, different questions. Your church had then a special needs ministry or something. They had like a separate, you're talking about a special place. Yes. And they had a separate, segregated, so our church is kind of unique in a lot of Asian-American churches are unique because it started out as a fully Asian church, like Korean speaking. And then they branched out because there's now a generation of children who don't speak that language. Right. So, our church used to be the English ministry. Now it's own church. So we actually have two separate churches on one campus. Okay. Messy Messy. And then now we're talking about like, we're just smearing out all the like cultural nuances blah, blah. So our church, and the, this, the separate church or the separate class for all the special kids were for both Korean speaking and English speaking just put all the, all the ones. Oh yeah. So we're talking about baby to 33 year old man with Down syndrome. Yeah. In one of the people who have some kind of a different ability. Yes. On the spectrum. Is it physical or anything? Yeah. Anything. I think if it's physical but neurologically, like typical, then they would have access, but if it's for the most part. Yeah. And I was like, I'm not taking my two year old to sit with a 33 year old and what I considered a padded room while you guys all stand and make sure that they're behaving and then giving them some curriculum like that. That's not honoring them. That's like, yeah, what are you teaching them? Anyway. And so I was like, oh, yeah, that's not an option for me. I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to do this throughout. What do you think? Right. Like, is this how bad is it? You know, like, we're going to do this. And they're like, and that's when the conversations happened. And that's when we had to talk to them about like inclusivity about the churches and inclusivity about different kinds of people. How, you know, just the big narratives about church had to come into play there. And Shane having access to worship is a is a biblical right? 100%. And we had to have the conversation. It's like, why is separate bad? It's actually better for him. And I was like, on what ground are you basing that off of? That's a generational cultural idea. It's not founded in research, which I have if you need. Right. It's not founded in law, which I also have if you need. You know, I was like, argument after argument. And I think it all just kind of came to a head with being told, like, maybe we need to go find another church. That, you know, like, you know, Jamie, you need calm down because you're getting a little intense. And then it turns into, oh, crazy female at a church. And, you know, like, that's another wonderful, new one. So I have to. Yeah. And then it happened where our head pastor said, you know what, Jamie, let's have a conversation. And so it was like at a table like this where my husband, his wife, and he and I, and we had this explosive, like, world war three kind of conversation where I was at my wits end. And I was like, you know what? Like, what do you want me to do here? Right now Shane is not allowed to go with his peers. I'm not putting him in the separate but equal class because that's I think injustice. What do you want me to do? You want me to leave? And it was a really tough conversation. And even then our pastor was like, look, I don't know what to do. And if you want anything done, do it yourself. And I was like, okay. Okay. All right. And so that's how we somehow created this like all star team at our church and we launched what is now access ministry. It is a group of people who facilitate access for those with special needs or different abilities or whatever you want to call it. Right. Yeah. And to, to whatever they feel comfortable. To fully have access to worship. And so it's a team that comes alongside the children's ministry to support in any way that we can. And we started off with like an awareness campaign where we had a panel of parents, four parents who are a part of our church to share about their lives about, hey, this is real and it's happening and it's happening to us. And you need to know about it because as painful as it is, we are your people. So here are stories and that's how we got this beautiful army of volunteers. We've held like two seminars and yeah, that's where we are. If you build a table, come and you found volunteers and people that are like, I'm on board and I love that you when you're pastor or when you kind of felt the face of like, should we just leave this church, you're going to find that you can go to different church. It's going to probably be battle in some way too. It's just all new to even I think church world church culture about not creating a separate space, but how can we come alongside our friends, our community with different abilities and to join in our space. You know what I mean? Yeah, so like that was definitely on the table. I was like, I don't, I don't know what to do. I can't, I can't. actually looked at different churches. There was one right in our area with a very well established special, they call it the special need of Mary's tree, I think. Sorry. That's a really, even the terms. Yeah, they're constantly changing. I know, it's horrible. We're learning. Yeah, I know. So I mean, they have a group of people who support people with disabilities. And so I was like, okay, it's made. But for whatever reason, as I was sitting there, and I know the reason God's like, not yet sweet heart, it was a call on my life, really. It's like a responsibility of, I actually made vows to my church too. It's not just my church doing things for me. Am I gonna step into, it's so easy to say things. And it's so easy to complain about things and really run your mouth about inequality. But do you want to initiate that change? 'Cause it's gonna take teamwork and just partnership and really grueling hours and frustration. Yeah. 'Cause what happened was, how do I say that I want equality for a shame or I wanna advocate without ever rubbing up against people who are gonna come against it? That's not advocacy. That's just running your mouth. And so it was really, are you ready, Jamie, to do something about it? And that juncture girl was like, nope. You're not ready at all. I can't do this. I don't know. And there was a lot of tears. Huge learning curve. Still, fallen on my face, making mistakes all the time, but just with this amazing team that we have. And like the relationship that I have with our head pastor now is unbelievable. And I mean, redemption, right? It's learning. It's learning and I'm learning what the church is like. I'm learning how difficult this building, something like this would be and what the pressures are and why we do the things that we do. All of those things. It's a lot more complicated. I love it because you are a member of that church, you know, and like you have a gift, had a gift that was lacking and you answered the call and to do it. Because that's the thing, like I feel like sometimes too, we can get used to showing up to church and have them give to us, give to sit down. And then, but once you're a little bit against the grain, or you have a child who's against the grain, that you're kind of called into seeing things differently and seeing where, okay, I got to help make change happen. All right, I got to get up for my seat. Yeah. And do something. Like to stand up for something. And it's, so like, and again, I think that, I want to be very careful there because there are certain times where church is abusive. When it comes to that, like safety or whatever. And I was like, I don't want any of your guys' listeners to think like if you're in it to win it, like, you guys stick out. Yeah, that's not it at all. I think it has to be very nuanced and careful about, oh gosh, what does this mean for me personally? What will it mean for our family? And then move forward in that with a lot of, I don't know, fear and trembling, you know? And learning along the way. Instead of like demanding it so much, which I've apologized profusely to my church and for the early stages of this, because I was lit, you know, of lame. And I was so busy about so many things and I just didn't understand like, I was like quoting Leviticus and like, this is the injustice in like getting on my high horse and it's like Jamie just respond to the email. You know, like, oh, sorry, yes, I worked to do. And like, just do the work and be faithful and being gracious, not just with them, but also with yourself and like learning together. And that's truly like iron sharpening iron, right? It's a heat and friction and sitting in the heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'Cause our kids can have a faith. They are gonna have faith in a relationship. With Jesus Christ, I'm gonna save me. (laughs) You know, like I just feel like, just the, I don't know, I feel like all of a sudden in the way of like, our huge app, not the way in a bad way, but the advocacy to really show the whole person of our children in that includes faith, that they should have access to a faith and that to know that they are capable of having faith. When you think about just all of our kids, right? Like, I have to think about it from the perspective of God could intervene and protect a tiny little like, embryo in my belly when every single voice in that embryo's life was saying, just snuff it out. Like with your two fingers, you can crush it. Like, and it'll be over. You don't have to walk into the set all. And if God could protect that and uphold this entire journey in that very teeter tottering moment, I still remember those three weeks vividly. God showed up and provided a certain level of clarity that I can only consider a supernatural. Like how do you get a broken woman with every card stacked against her to say yes to a call like this, no way, with what? Like, what am I believing? When there's no physical tie in front of me, that's gonna say that everything's okay. And that I think is just even in the most against the life of my childhood Down syndrome I got, that somehow I'm sitting at a podcast talking about how valuable and lovely and worthy these children are. And like they too, and the whole point of our ministry is to make sure that we say, not only, this isn't a ministry for these kids. It's a ministry for the church to remember that number one, they are a body, they're a member of this church. Number two, they are ministers of grace themselves. Don't you forget that you're not reaching out to them. You have a lot more to learn from them than you have to give them. You know, because that's how people amen. (laughing) And I think that that's something that we don't get to hear that often, right? We're so used to our kids being the, like, oh my God Down syndrome, like, oh I love special kids. Like, he's not to help me. - I have help, yeah. - Like let me help and save your complex. - Yeah, and it's like, yes, awesome, but then you'd be so lucky to know them and to learn from them or like, you know, be blessed by them. Like that's just, that's a gift and you are so lucky that you get to be around it too. So you're welcome, I birth that, you know what I mean? (laughing) - So you're welcome. - Yeah. - And that can throw me a parade. (laughing) - Tell us more. - Oh, I was gonna say, I wanna know more about the ministry. Like, tell us how it works. Is it just in your church? Is it in other churches? Is your expanding? - Oh gosh, oh, can I dream? - Yes, do it. - So right now we are, like, I think I was like, we're good. Like, we have a handful of kids who have supports and they are fully included into their worship kind of programs wherever they go. And my dream is to make sure that we uphold that and continue that on, not as a legacy for like a shame or for me or anything like that. It was just as a part of our church, global. And then we are a part of a network of churches. And so I was like, we're taking it on the road from just like we're making sure like if we are the, we are a part of the vine and this is the beating of God's heart, so help me Jesus. And we have, and like in all, like maybe I'm just saying this, I'm dreaming here. So like if our church is listening right now, they'll know my heart. But we have sister churches, we support missionaries all over the world. My hope and prayer is that we take this message and make sure that they're screaming it at their ends of the world, whether that's in parts of Asia, South America. And we actually send hands and feet to help facilitate that because if we're having a hard time in one of the like the best, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Around the world. Right, right. And I know that so well, just especially in the Asian countries, right? Well, all over the world. But my hope is that we can build up our church so that we can send out people to help support them all over the world. And as a parent, like, you know, a lot of times they're like, well, Jamie, like how did you start doing this? Like you're just a mom. And I was like, that's correct. I am just a mom. And I take such great pride in that that it doesn't take some special skill, right? It is a matter of, do you know what you believe? And do you know, like, have you, like, you, this is you? Like the, the road responsibility falls on us. And like, have you seen moms? Oh, we are. We are, we are, we are a force to be reckoned with because we have the tenderness to hold, like, the most delicate of creatures. And then we have the, like, bear strength to lift a car off our little creatures if they're in danger, you know, like, we're, we're everything that you need. You know, and we're dynamic creatures. Yeah. And you are a mom. Yeah, your mom. And, and like, and we're humans. Or that you have a voice. Yeah. And that you have capability and a brain to know right from wrong and worthy that everybody is worthy. Yeah. And it's, it really, like, it's not a, and I think it's just maybe it's a special part of people who can raise their voice. And this is excruciatingly hard for an Asian woman who is told to shh, right? Her whole life, like, be quiet. No, no, no. You don't make waves. And I didn't have a choice. I don't think. And I think that's the only way that God had, like, that, he knew that that was the only way that he would make me talk at all was if, like, like, "Gun to my head, Jamie, you don't have a choice. You either raise your voice or this is not going to happen for Shane." That was not an option. Without options, I'm like, "Excuse me, I need to say something." Right? I'm still processing this and I could be wrong, probably am. I really have started to view advocacy, not choosing advocacy as a privilege. They're people who just get to say, "Oh, that's so awesome what you're doing." They're not choosing it, but then there's those of us who it's like, "Oh, I don't have the privilege to not choose that, but that actually is my privilege to step into it." Right. So. It's you leave or you lean in. Yes. And I think that that's what's so powerful about your story, Jamie, and what we are seeing right now in our generation as we become. This generation of moms and dads of kids with Down syndrome who are becoming more and more aware, and we're seeing even just this movement of inclusion. And as we choose to either lean in or leave, if we're going to lean in, then it's a powerful force and it is changing things. We can see it changing things. If you look at the laws, and this is something that I actually heard at the Dear Mom Conference, right, this woman on stage said, "Hold on a second, I need to say something." Like, I thought that we won this war. Oh, yeah. And you guys, I had this come to Jesus moment where I was like, "I don't want to be on a stage 30 years from now, saying the exact same thing." This war has already been won. We are standing on the shoulders of giants, friends. The reason why this war is not new is because it's been lost since 1975. In the history of laws, it's new, right? It's still in a recent history, people were born. It's happened in our lifetime, but it's established and it's now implementation stage and that's where the rub is happening, right? Similar to the rub that's happened at our church, right? It only happens when we're rubbed up against it. Right. And we have more and there's so much more access because of social media and technology. Oh my gosh. And that's something that they don't have to go into the archives. And before people had to have law degrees, but I was like, "No, I have. " And this was in paramedic that Club 21 gave me. They're like, "No, you are a citizen. This is your responsibility. You know how to read Jamie, right?" And I'm like, "Well, yeah, super-intensal, we're by the way, so scary." I was like, "I had a baby in the back and I was like, I'm going to have to leave now because I'm so scared." I'm scared. Yeah, I'm scared. I'm just too intense. But what she said really shook me to my core where it's like, "Are you able?" And I'm like, "Yeah, can you read?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I can. Okay, you're already in place." That's the case. Yeah, you're equipped. Like this is something that falls on citizens. And that's going back to what you were saying about advocacy. Everybody either has to be an advocate or not. It's our collective responsibility. And people don't know that because they, I think they rely on us. Our church tends to say, "Jamey, what do you want me to do?" And I was like, "What do you think you should do?" You know what I mean? But it's that really hard tension of bringing people alongside you and then allowing, because I think it's not because of meanness. No, yeah. It's just out of ignorance. Like Jamie, am I allowed to exercise my voice in this even if I don't have a tie? Yeah. I'm counting on it, right? Please do so. And don't err on this. Like err on the side of, "I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to do horrible things that might hurt your feelings, but let's just try this anyway." Yeah. And that's the invitation to courage, right? Being open to making those mistakes or learning something new. And I think that in our churches we're so comfortable with what we know and what we think we know about God that when a friction point comes in and challenges all those things, it's like, "What do you do with that?" Do we shove it in a separate classroom or not? Right. And I think the next step is like thinking bigger than how we're going to minister to people with different abilities, but how are people with different abilities allowed to minister to correct? Correct. To the church and making space for that and believing that not only is it possible, but it is a calling in their lives as well. Oh, one hundred percent. It's just understanding like they're just human beings, right? I mean, we don't have to put in like accomplishment as a part of like the prerequisites, like college, right? You just get to go to church because you're alive. Yeah. And you're welcome here to see whatever that looks like because your journey with Jesus is going to be your journey with Jesus. And that's a beautiful thing. And I want to hold that for you and whatever I can because that's a personal thing. And I don't want to interject in that relationship. I want to make sure that you can cultivate that all on your own. And that's like my. And it goes back to our story like in the way we beginning, as I was sitting and grappling with like, "Okay, if we were to go through this, what do I want for my cut, this kid?" And when it really came down to it, I was like, "Oh gosh, I just want him to know the love of God, right? Because if I like as a believer, I know that this life is temporary, right? So like, do I care if he reads? No. Do I care if he writes or runs or does he need to walk? Does he need to see? Does he need to hear?" And all of those things were, "No, he doesn't need to do any of these things because we see it up and down, like that relationship with love, right, is what makes the difference in someone's life." And so, at that time, O.B. was saying, "Jaymi, he might not be able to walk." And I was like, "Yeah, but does he need to walk to worship Jesus?" No. So next question. And that was the level of clarity that I now know that was beyond me, right? And it was the fortitude that I needed to just take one more step into this journey. And that is actually the grounding of all the things that happen on this journey, right? Like, in the inclusive, like, we just had a meeting at our school. They're like, "What are your foreseeable, achievable goals for Shane?" And at the end, of course, like, the inclusion person to me, I was like, "Friendship and authentic relationship with you as a teacher." That's all I care about. I don't care if he can write his name. I don't care if he can, like, granted, he's on his way, by the way. Yeah, great. He can't, like, kind of well, actually kind of well. And, like, "Oh, and, you know, you said that he couldn't do sight words. We're going to add that into the IAP because he can now." You know, like, healing it. He's kind of nailing it. So, opportunity, and, like, you know, in those arenas, but I, that's what I want. Yeah. Like, and that's the foundation. Yeah. And that should clarify what we want for all of our kids. Yeah. To love and be loved. And I would say that for all my kids, personally, that that's, you know, to know and love Jesus is really, I mean, that's all I want for them. That's everything. I mean, because at the end of the day, like, we can talk about inclusion, right? And we are talking about education, like, but that's going to end at 22 or 25. Like, we want to instilling them a lifelong learner. Right. That's because you don't get long division. Oh my gosh. I don't get long. Or something. Like, does that make sense? Like, the school will say, you're not able and you're not welcome. So, let's put you over here so you can work on counting bears. But like, if you want to continue and learn long division, you can do that well into your 80s. So, like, friends, don't you worry. Like, mama got you. Let's go. We're moving forward. And that's, and it's like that in the church arena. And I think that that's the job of the church to make sure that we uphold that so that we can empower our students to go into the real world and be fine with where they are because they know who they are. They know where they stand. And their dignity and their value does not lie in what they can achieve. You're crying. You okay? You're just a cry on this. You're both crying. You're good. Because it's the most important thing. It is. Yeah. And I think, like, that's the foundation of the law. Like, the law upholds that their civic rights because they are human beings. And I think we lose sight of that sometimes in the achievement or like the system. In the testing and where they live on that. Yeah, yeah. And I think, I mean, I think educators are going to cringe when they hear me say this. But it's like, yes, we want achievement. And of course, we want to make it attainable for them. And we believe they can. Right. We do. Right. Yes. I mean, study, show it. Right. Right. And we are surprised as parents. So like, don't feel guilty. Right. Like, rest of the world. Like, we too. When I was teaching, actually, you know, sight words would change just this summer. I was like, I don't think he's going to be able to do this. Whatever. Let's try. And he totally nailed it within three weeks. And I was shocked. I went into the room and I cried. My daughter's like, you cry in. Yeah. Right? Like, what's happening? I'm just really proud. And you know, like, it's just, it surprises us again and again. We talk a lot on this podcast. It's just about progress. Like, moving forward and our kids making progress. We don't put a timeline on it. We need to see progress. And that, and we do over and over and over and over again in their -- own ways big and small and it's so important. Jamie before we wrap up here is there a nugget you can give to churches and a nugget. So that's a little. So that's a little nugget. 60 seconds. People who are entering into a church where they are being told their child belongs in the special class and that's not what they want. So one for each. Okay, one for each for the church. Dear church. We love you. Oh church. We love you. Thank you for all that you do. But I think there is an apathy of our churches. I think there is just blindness to certain things that they're not encountering and there is a call and if you're listening this is it. This is it. Disability is a part of the human. The fabric of just humanity. It's very much a part of all of our lives and as such we as a church have to confront this. To uphold it and ultimately search out God's heart when it comes to these people and when you take it to God he's going to show you in mighty, mighty ways what his heart is for his people. I think he does not mince words when it comes to his people and people with disabilities. He does not flinch. He doesn't say sorry and he has a certain special level of love and adoration and we have to uphold that as church people. And so like I would recommend a book. It's called Disability in the Gospel. If any church leader has not read it yet I would highly highly recommend that. And just start your journey. There are so many resources out there. Like at the very least if you just even want a conversation please call me. I would so gladly bring the parent perspective and like hold your hand through this. That would just be my the the bees knees. I think the gospel is very clear when Jesus said all he meant all. So there it's that. And for the friends and family oh I might choke up oh no. Oh no we've got a spring. Oh my god I can't believe you guys have focused. So we are in this with you and you are so seen and more than the women and men sitting at the table alongside you you're seen by a good and loving and a god who who absolutely adores and honors your loved one with disabilities. And every inclination to run away from that I hope and challenge and pray that you can press into that and be wonderfully and pleasantly surprised. And if you're not up to the work to build a ministry then the hope is you'll find a church that has one already ready for you. But if you are sitting in a church and you don't have that option like the luxury or the the privilege to go to a different church you got to get on your knees friends. Start praying real hard because that's the best thing you could do. Number two get ready for the hardest conversations that don't deviate from the truth of the matter. God loves your child period. Start from there and don't move from there and make sure that you have conversations with truth but with absolute love and adoration for the church because they are learning. And I think I was so quick to be like how do you not know this right and just get all haughty and mad and aggressive about it but at the end of the day you don't know what you don't know and how else will they learn if you don't teach them. So as hard as it is to be an ambassador into this world, this journey, the less walked, the less talked and the wilderness and you're getting whipped in the face and bugs are eating you. Like you know it's just really, really rough but you need people to come alongside you and all you need to do is step on that just one foot after another and learn with each other. That's beautiful. Thank you, Jane. So much. So much. And how can people find you if they want to know more about you? Yes. And more about your ministry. Sure. So I mean I always about me personally or just minutes. You want to get ready? Okay. So you personally. Yeah. So I Instagram. I'm on Instagram just with my regular name. So Jamie Limley. I don't have like a fancy name. I have a I have a page for a shane but like I'm the worst millennial ever. It's just for the walk in October. So I guess you can follow both of us there. I'm still very much a budding. Like I'm always so happy and like eager to do things like this. So yes, Instagram you can go on there and if you want to and or you can just go to your local church and like I don't know you like cell phone number. Yeah, my email. Yeah, just because it's like I think a lot of times you're still grassroots in this. Well, I kind of prefer that. Yeah. Well, only because the work isn't about me, right? It's about like other people like it's about the people. It's about the collective and it's about the movement rather than one person because I will champion the crap out of. I'm not going to take back. Okay. Sorry. I'm a cousin type Christian. So I was told not to say bad words. So sorry. So like my job is to come alongside the champions within a church. So whether it's the pastor, the parent, whatever, I will fly my blood around the world if I have to in order to say you can do this. I'm going to be a professional encourager. Like that's my goal. Because it's not about me or my church. It's about the word I got exploding where you are and it's a life and active and it's it's a fiery agent that goes ahead of us all, you know? And so as much as I can to come alongside churches like I'm I get to meet with pastors pretty often to just say like, Hey, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this and I was like, you're allowed to say it. This is just to me and I can tell you the right terms. So you know what I mean? It's just learning alongside each other and I'm I'm aware of those things now that I'm more than happy to to do that. So yes, email, Instagram. Awesome. Awesome. We are so thankful to even here with us today. Thank you. Thanks for sharing your story. And we are going to we're going to head over to hear from our sponsor. And when we get back, it's going to be time for good news. I got to start off. You did it. You did it. We'll be we'll be right back listeners. We are so pumped. Love every is sponsoring the show this month. Their products are gorgeous. As are their models because I have to brag here, Ace is one of them. He's so cute. Thank you. I received a love every play tent and it is so beautifully made. There would, sleek, simple design. I think best fits your child's development at the age of baby. And as aesthetically pleasing as it looks, you want to keep it up in your house. You know what mom? You're like, yeah, doesn't go with my it's a plastic one. The bright colors doesn't go. The play tent is beautifully handcrafted and goes with your style. Guaranteed. I love that. And they have these things that are called play kits that are curated basically for your child's age from birth up until a year. And the one that the box that we have is for 11 12 month old and the toys are amazing. They're all matched developmentally to where your child is at and you can receive these in the mail basically every month. So such a great gift to give also to your friends. Yeah. And here's why I love them the most. They are actually serious about every baby and that's why they have kits with different abilities in their marketing images like my eighth space because they really do believe that all of our kids matter and they have they want to work with parents who are walking into a new diagnosis and get these toys right. So you can let them know your concerns and they'll work with you to make sure the kids are on track. Let them know you're a lucky few listener and you'll get 10% off your subscription to the play kits or $10 off a tent. Just use the code the lucky few at checkout and find out why they're being praised from the pages of pop sugar to people magazine to real simple. Welcome back to the lucky few podcast listeners. We are here for the best part of every week where we allow you to share the great things that are happening in your world and with your child at Down syndrome. What wonderful thing are you celebrating this week? It is time for it's time for some good news good ♪ Swave your hands in the air ♪ (upbeat music) - We are so excited to hear from you today, Jamie. What is something wonderful that is happening in Shane's life right now? - All right, so back in March, we were doing his annual IEP, and I was like, I'm gonna go all in and be crazy and ask for a goal that talks about sight words. And then everyone at the table was like, that's adorable, but that's not gonna happen, LOL. And so I was like, oh, okay. And I kind of backed down and I went back and forth for about a few months and I was like, no, I really think we should do it. Let's just go bigger, go home. What's the worst that can happen? Zero of five words. That's fine with me, I'm okay with that. And they're like, oh, I don't like this, but okay, let's just try it out and enter them. They made an amendment. And during the summer, we started this program and I was like, oh gosh, this program has sight words in it. Like that's kind of nuts and like, let's just try this out. And the good news is he has 10 down and it took like, - Oh, I love that. - Six times of just practicing at home and just the pride and joy that he had and I have and it's just the beginning of reading the big news. - It's just the beginning. - Yeah, I love that. As always, people can text us, they're good news or call it in with a voicemail. And someone texts us in and they had text before and said their baby was born and in the NICU. Born at 30 weeks in the NICU, I'm having to come home soon and they text later. Like a month later and said, I just, her, oh, sorry. - Yeah, she's at home, she's doing well and she rolled over. - Oh yeah. - Isn't that fun? - Yeah, I think you did it girl. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Good girl. Okay, and then we have another one. Mercedes, you read this one because there's a picture that where you need to put the show notes because I can't even handle this cutie. - Okay, but it says six months of wearing a NICU and still full of smiles. - That's good news. - Well, she is good. - And I was wearing a NICU for six months. I would not be falling for my own. - And I can't tell how old she is, but she's young. - You guys, I'm passing it on. - She's cute, I want to just see her. - She is an egg brace and she's smiling and I love that mom for sending us 'cause that news. - Good news. - It is good news. It's so good. - It's so good. - I have one, my oldest son, my 10 year old, has started a new school and I, like, quickly was like, "Hey, October's down syndrome awareness month and I'll come into fifth grade and talk about it." And they've been really open and welcome to having me come and my son came home yesterday and he was like, "My teacher's reading this book and it talked about down syndrome." And I was like, "Oh, was it about down syndrome?" And he was like, "No, no, it just mentioned it casually, but she told the class, we are gonna be talking about that a lot in this class." And my son was just really excited. - That's good news. - And I love that he's getting to own that. - Yes. - That we, he's feeling that pride in his brother, which is really cool. - So cool. Thank you guys for sending in that good news. I think it's important that we always remember all the amazing things our kids are doing big and small. And if you would like to do that, go to the luckyfewpodcast.com where you can find a phone number to text it in, you can email it to us, you can follow along there. Please head on over to wherever it is that you are listening to this and leave a review. And the more reviews you leave, the more people see it, the more people see it. The quicker we will change this narrative, right? So get on out there. Leave a review, share with all your friends, and follow us at all other social media places, the luckyfewpod. That's our show. Jamie, thank you again for being here. - Thank you so much for having me. - Thanks for all. - Let's see. - And say bye, bye. - Bye. (upbeat music) - Thanks for listening to the Luckyfewpodcast. We've here a show in iTunes and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow us on all social media at the Luckyfewpod. Subscribe on our website for ongoing updates at theluckyfewpodcast.com. Tell us about your good news by leaving us a voice mail or text at 424-442-9147. Our show is edited and produced by Andy Lara at AndyLikesWords.com. See you next time. (upbeat music)