IN YOUR BACKYARD: The People vs. Dirty Air (ft. Rep. Ro Khanna)

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Luke also sits down with congressman rocana to discuss what's happening in Washington, the administration's environmental rollbacks, and what can actually be done about it. Plus, Ro says some very interesting things about 2028 that you're going to want to hear. It's all part of our mission here within your backyard, connecting the decisions being made in Washington to what's happening in communities across the country. So without further ado, here's the latest episode. Hey everybody, welcome back to In Your Backyard. I'm Luke Gradle and I'm so glad you're here. For such an important topic that we have going on today, you know, when thinking about politics and what's going on here in Washington, it can sometimes feel hard to breathe. And that gets even harder when it's literally hard for people to breathe as a result of air pollution or wildfire smoke drifting down from Canada or throughout California and the West Coast. And the Trump administration has been really active since the start of the president's first and now second term in peeling back the protections that were once in place to guard against air pollution. A few weeks ago, the EPA, which is run by Lee Zeldin, someone that I'm familiar with, because he ran for governor of New York just a few short years ago. He's now the EPA administrator and the EPA under Lee Zeldin has announced that it's going to lift carbon emission limits for coal-fired power plants. Let me run that back again. The EPA is going to lift carbon emissions for coal-fired power plants. Now look, I am hardly an expert on climate change. I'm really not. I'm here to help guide you through it and help tell these stories and walk you through it. I didn't do very well in most of my math and science classes, but I could tell you, and I know if you're not an expert in climate change, I'm pretty sure you know that those buzzwords, carbon emissions, coal-fired power plants, all of those things just seem like alarm bells, flashing red alarm bells for the climate crisis that we've been hearing about now for decades, and that has only gotten worse throughout my lifetime and yours. But it's not just that specific provision. It's a broader attitude that we're seeing from the environmental protection agency that they're just not really that interested in protecting the environment under this administration. That's the message that a lot of people seem to be receiving when, for instance, they repealed the endangerment finding that basically forced the federal government to protect communities like yours and mine from pollution of all kinds, including our topic this week, which is air pollution. It's a major blow to combating the pollution that is behind the climate change, the climate crisis that we're seeing, that is causing a lot of the things that we've been talking about on this show. We talked about last week with extreme weather and the respiratory illnesses that we're going to touch upon pretty heavily in this episode as well. And when you hear something like how an administration no longer counts the value of lives, when it sets pollution standards, that's true, by the way. They made another change that said that they're not taking into account as a factor. What it will do on human lives, the quality of life in a community. Instead, what they're going to be focusing on, what this administration is very often focused on, is the economic impact of a particular development of a particular project. And whether the pollution caused by that project harms the neighborhood around it is now no longer material in some cases. When you hear something like that, it can be easy for many to lose sight of the individuals, the lives that are impacted in those communities. But that's what this show is all about. And so for this episode and for this entire series, I've set out to talk to the people who in different places across the country are fighting back against these changes, are helping to make their communities a better place to live, and are working to create a more hospitable political landscape. So that way we can see the changes and accountability that we all need to help make this crisis go away. So later, you'll hear our conversation that I have with Congressman Brokana of California, who has been leading the fight for a while on environmental issues. And particularly here in Washington DC and the political arena, what can be done on an issue like air pollution. But first, as always, we're leading with the voices of the folks here dealing with these issues face to face in their backyards. So let's lead off with some of those conversations for in your backyard. First up, let's head outside Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, it's where we'll find our first guest on in your backyard, a woman named Kathy Lucas, as I mentioned earlier, a big focus of this episode as you might imagine an episode on air pollution and emissions to be focused on. She's an individual with a respiratory illness. She's had to manage her life around dirty air since she was just a child. You hear her talk about that. And I wanted to know what life was like back then and what it has meant for her now and how the fights about clean air that happened in Washington and in various political state capitals and elsewhere, how those fights are actually affecting her and her neighbors and her community. And also what she makes of what the Trump administration has done lately, those actions that I laid out earlier, but how they're largely letting polluters off the hook. Take a listen to my conversation with Kathy Lucas. Kathy, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join me here on in your backyard. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. So tell our audience a little bit about where you live and the role that air pollution has played throughout your life. Sure. Let's start, well, let's start at the beginning. I grew up in Pittsburgh and that was the heyday of the steel mills, the 1970s, into the early 80s. And I was a kid with asthma. We had a weatherman by the name of Joe DeNardo that anybody in Pittsburgh is going to remember, at least if they're Gen X like me. And he would give the pollution index in the morning and tell us if you know, you should go out with a bandana around your face because the pollution from the steel mills was quite bad that day. So a few of us, and we all walked to school, of course, we all walked, you know, all the way uphill, one way, and all the way uphill the other way. We Gen X will, of course. And so there were a few of us with asthmatic conditions. So we would walk to school with a bandana on because really we didn't have the mask that we have now available. Sure. So that was kind of a daily basis thing. Oh yeah. On that point. Yeah, can I ask on that point, like how effective was the bandana at keeping out the pollutants? Could you still kind of taste that feeling that you get when you go out and such polluted air? As a kid, I don't remember tasting it. I'm sure it gave us a little bit of protection, but not a whole lot. I'm sure because the other thing that was neat about growing up in Pittsburgh was if you went shopping with your grandma or your mother down on the avenue, which in our case would have been homestead by the homestead steelworks and right down the street or down the river was the J&L steel plant as well. You would walk down the street and as a little kid, it was really, really cool because everything was all glittery and pretty on the sidewalks and you're like, oh wow, that's really cool, you know, because kids live glitter. Sure. And then later you learn it's glittery because of all the heavy metals in the air that are settling on to the street, which means that we're breathing it in also. So growing up in the dirty city of Pittsburgh and it's steel mill hay day was it had its problems. And you went through, you know, your day and you did what you could do, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who have problems from it. Yeah, and talk a little bit present day about how you've had to manage your life and have had to deal with the various health conditions as a result of the air quality you experienced growing up and then and then also today. It's hard to say, for sure, if any of what I experienced as a child is now affecting me from that. But in 2022, I was diagnosed with pulmonary hypertension, which means that my lungs are clogged up in my case with clots and old clots and scar tissue around those clots that they had to go in and dig out in an open heart kind of a procedure. And those clots and those blockages keep my heart from getting the oxygen. So it has a hard time working, and it also has a problem getting that oxygenated blood to my body. So breathing can be difficult. If I am exerting myself, if I'm having a really bad day and I'm talking, that can be difficult. Walking up hills and stairs is monumental. Getting things done in the house for my family is really difficult most days. You don't have as much energy as you need. You don't have as much air as you need. The condition starts to make your heart fail, so I have right-sided heart failure as a result of the pulmonary hypertension. So the most problem I've had has been when we had the wildfires. All that smoke coming in, we had dangerous levels. There were days I didn't go out. Every morning, I checked before I go out what the air quality is. So I know, should I put on a 95 mask? And that way I know, can I walk my dog? Can I go shopping? Can I do whatever it is I need to do outside, gardening, whatever. But yeah, it's just another step you have to take to protect yourself for what air, you have to make sure you're going to have enough air. So. What kind of a dog do you have, Kathy? I have a border-cully lab who's probably around here somewhere. I love that. How often is it a boy or a girl? It's a girl. Okay, how often does she need to go out and stretch her legs? She's got a lot of lazy lab in her, but she loves to go on a walk because she loves to see people out in the neighborhood, so we try to go every day if I'm able to go. And we'll go as far as we can. I don't go very far, but we go as far as I can and, you know, it's also part of my rehab for my condition. It keeps things going kind of, so. Yeah, I understand you also have a guard as well. What's it like trying to get the garden work done, especially when you have enough time to deal with the air quality issues? We have a very natural garden. We do a lot of grabbing seeds the pollinators will like and just tossing them and letting them do what they want to do. The rest of the planting is pretty much done by the birds as they pick up seeds and drop them here and there. You know, we have milkweed for the butterflies. We have cosmos. We have black eyed seasons. We try to stick with the natural stuff, but the weeding, it needs weeded terribly. But you know, things like the fireflies also live in the weeds, so we kind of let that go. So you start to learn to not worry about everything that's not getting done when you have this condition. Yeah. You mentioned that the Canadian wildfires was kind of the single incident that was the most difficult for you to deal with, but I understand there's also this kind of constant rolling issue of the petrochemical plant, I believe it's a shell plant, the shell plant in your community and talk a little bit about what those facilities mean for the rest of the community and for use specifically. Well, you know, we have had alerts. We have had bad air throughout the period of time of them being up and operational. They have quite often not been in compliance. This supposed boon to the community really has hurt people over there, not just probably with their health and their air quality, but their property values. It did not provide a ton of jobs that everybody was hoping, oh, we're getting jobs to the beaver valley, then provide a bunch of jobs. You know, and now, not just with the shell cracker plant there, we're dealing up here with as many other rural areas do, we are dealing with the data centers. And with the increased amount of fossil fuels they're going to use, that's going to hurt our air, that's going to hurt our available water for people. And of course, again, even fewer jobs are going to be available to folks. And also the cost of our utilities are going to go up. And it just seems like if you're a regular person, whether you're completely healthy or not, we're getting the short end of the stick on a lot of things. It seems like on the issue of data centers, on the issue of emissions, more broadly the environment, more broadly the Trump administration, particularly in this second term, but also in the first has been rolling back a lot of the protections that were previously in place. So when you say, "Oh, these folks are out of compliance," there isn't the regulatory force to actually back that up in a lot of these instances. What makes you, I guess, most alarm, most nervous about what this Trump administration is doing? It might be hard to just pick one thing, but what impact is it having specifically on you in your community? It's very hard to pick one because, to me, everything's interrelated. It's all connected. People right now can't afford to live. That's a big problem. They can't afford to live. People don't have healthcare. The healthcare that we do have is going up. The drugs that help to keep me alive and keep my quality of life such that I can at least contribute some to my family. Those drugs are anywhere from 20 to 50,000 each and there are four of them, per month, not per year, per month. Right now my Medicare plan does cover those and the originally it was $2,000 per year prescription cap that President Biden started this year, it was $2,100 out of pocket cap for those prescription drugs. That allows me to get those drugs and to live, I'm sure there are other people with cancer drugs and other types of drugs like that that are extremely expensive, that, you know, their lives are no less than anybody else. Their lives are no less than the politicians that are deciding, well, we can't afford healthcare. We can't afford to make wealthy people pay for healthcare or pay beyond the cap into social security or anything else. There's an unfortunate distance between the policies that they're making in this administration. And the problems that people are facing and the problems that it's going to create. We've already seen so many people kicked off Medicaid and there's going to be a lot more because they want to cut even more. And with all of the environmental deregulation, the pollution is going to go up, people are going to get sicker. They're not going to have to healthcare. We're going to have a lot of people that are in big trouble, health wise and economically. And we've got to get this straightened out, I'm hoping people will realize that and realize that they have not been served by this administration, not just President Trump, but also the Congress, the Republican Congress in particular, you know, that we've got to do better. They have to do better. And I hope that they'll send them a message as midterm and vote them out and vote in some people that are hopefully progressive, but at least we'll do something for regular American people instead of just the wealthy and the corporations who just want to keep on polluting at our expense. Kathy, I really appreciate your time and thank you so much for sharing the start with me. I really appreciate that. Thank you. Oh, sure. Thank you. I'm glad you had me on today. Thank you very much. Next up, we're going to head to Southeast Michigan. And yes, if you're wondering, Michigan, Pennsylvania, these are all states that we kind of talk a lot about when it gets to election season. And obviously we've been covering a whole variety of states here on this show, but it is important to point out that these issues are going to be shaping the races that decide balance of power and Congress, the US Senate, and yes, even the presidency in a few short years. And we'll get to potentially one of the presidents for that job in a moment. But first in Michigan, in Livingston County, to be specific, I spoke to Elizabeth Hopman, who has a son with asthma. And so as a result, she and a bunch of other moms in the community started a group of activists. to fight back against what they were seeing happen in their communities. It's such a, I don't know, heartwarming example of people coming together to do the job that folks here in Washington so often won't as they go off on another vacation when there are still so many problems left to solve, Elizabeth and her group are working hard tirelessly to effectuate change in their communities. Here's my conversation with Elizabeth. Elizabeth, thank you so much for joining me on In Your Backyard, I'd really appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me, with an important day and time to talk about these things. Absolutely. I want to rewind the clock a little bit and bring it all the way back to the beginning, which is, I feel like it's a place to start stories like this. How did you get involved in doing this work? I understand that maybe you started it out as being a concerned mom, which I have one of those. I know many of those. They're the best type of advocates and activists. But now you've been a lot more involved and made it into something a lot more than just advocating for your son, so talk to me a little bit about how you got involved in this work. Sure. So about 13 years ago, 14 years ago now, I was a volunteer with mom's clean air force. I was one of the many one and a half million mom's dads and caregivers that were very interested in learning more about how air pollution and climate change are impacting our children and women's bodies. And when I was pregnant with my son Oscar, I got an eat safe fish guide, which said what I couldn't, couldn't eat while I was pregnant due to some of the concerns that we talk about at mom's clean air force. And the wonderful thing about moms, like I said, is that moms are very powerful. We advocate for kids all the time, like you just referenced. So we are forced to be reckoned with and I'm very proud of the work that we do at moms. Yeah, what are you guys up against locally where you guys are in your community when it comes to air pollution? I understand Michigan has something like 18 coal-fired power plants that are exposing people in your community and in communities across Michigan to ask pollution and all other types of pollutants. What does that mean for you on the ground? Yeah. Well, I don't know if you know this, but according to the American Long Association, Michigan is a fourth hardest state to live in if you have asthma. And also we have many cities that have failing air quality grades, Detroit on a whole. We have children hospitalization rates that are higher than average because of air pollution. And some of that is also from industry and oil and gas. And coal-fired plants are actually one of our biggest contributors. Like I said, 10, 13 years ago when I got more involved with this, that was one of the first things we talked about. This particular plant, coal camel plant, which was recently in the news, that was scheduled to be shut down in May of 2025, was forced to keep open, as you know, under the guise of an emergency order for energy. While simultaneously getting rid of, I mean, wind and solar, which we know are safer, zero emissions, so you can't have energy crisis, while taking away energy sources from us. And because of these coal-fired plants, we have an accumulation of heavy metals. We annually see about 10,000 pounds of heavy metals that go just into Lake Michigan alone. And this particular plant that is being forced to stay open is responsible for 400 asthma tax per year. And that's just on average. So when we look at what's coming out of these stacks, we're looking at benzene, arsenic, we're talking heavy metals, particle pollution, ozone, all things that are neurotoxins as well as cancer-causing emissions that are coming out of here that is impacting our children. I, you mentioned how difficult it is for folks with asthma in your state. I know this is a personal issue for you. I'd love it if you could show our audience a picture that you have behind you and talk a little bit about what the experience has been like with your son and with asthma. This is my son when he was four years old. And this happened when we had a poor air quality day. So when we have these poor air quality days, we're constantly checking our air quality index to see if it's safe for our son to go outside. Well, it was a bad ozone day and my son unfortunately had an asthma attack that we could not make go away with just a simple inhaler. A lot of time is we'll rush home for a nebulizing treatment and if that doesn't work, we're heading off to an emergency room. And I can't tell you how awful it is as a parent to see the fear in your child's eyes is they struggle to breathe, knowing you can't do anything for them other than to rush them as quickly as possible to a hospital and hope that it gets relief. At those times you don't think about policy, you don't think about politics, you just think, "Oh Lord, please, just let my child breathe." And I feel that's just not something that any family should have to face. And there's 166,000 children here in Michigan who suffered from chronic asthma. So it's not just my family that's facing, you know, these concerns as these rollbacks are happening and these safeguards and protections are going away for our children. You hit the name right in the head that the primary and additional concern that you'd have when your child is going through something like that rather is I hope they can be okay. I hope they get the treatment and the care they need. But I know for so many families and especially the way things are, you're referred to as a simple inhaler. I don't know how easy it is for folks such to get access to an inhaler, given the cost of health care and things like an inhaler's right now. And it's more cost $150 with my insurance to your point Luke, not to cut you off. No, please. You know, it's one of those things too that depending on air quality, he could be using that frequently throughout the week. Or if we're having, you know, great air quality, he won't have to use it at all. But the point is, through some months that we go through two or three, if we have the wildfire smoke, for example, that came down from Canada and blanketed Michigan, many of us were just checking our, you know, weather reports to see if it was even safe for us to go to the grocery store. That's how dire it can be for kids, especially kids as sensitive as Oscar who have these chronic illnesses and other respiratory illnesses. Which recently I had a coffee, we call it a coffee climate break, and we had some folks that were on there, they were talking about their families who have people who have disabilities, whether they be physical or mental disabilities, and how it impacts them too, if you have equipment that can't be used, if you have refrigeration that you need, all these things are dependent on safe, reliable energy sources, and making sure that we are taking care of the folks that need it the most. Walk me through a little bit, your thought process, when considering whether you and Oscar can go to events, go out in the community, when it is outdoors, when you're facing that wildfire smoke, as you mentioned, or just in general in your neighborhood, given the air quality coming out of these plants. What does that thought process look like for you, and how often is that answer, not today, we need to stay inside today? Yeah, that's a very good question. We make it a point to check our whether index app to make sure that it's safe for Oscar to go outside, and there was a time a couple of years ago where he had a field day where kids are supposed to be outside, celebrating, playing sports, having all these fun games at the end of the year, and it wasn't safe for my son to be outside. The air quality was terrible, and you debate, do I let him join his friends and run the risk that he could get sick, or do I pull him? And then once again, how does that impact your child? I mean, sports and activities are supposed to keep them healthy, and the very error that they're breathing is making them sick. So we have to make sure that it's safe for him, or have a plan to see where the closest urgent care is, or am I close enough to rush home and use his napulizer, do I have enough inhalers on me? And it's kind of, you know, Oscar is older now, and he's taken upon himself to check at the weather app, and now he has his friends doing it as well. It's not just kids who have these vulnerabilities. It's everybody who is, you know, breathing in, part of the pollution, which is the width of your hair. These are things that folks do not see, and therefore may not even think about until it becomes a crisis. Yeah. Elizabeth, thank you so much for your time and for sharing this story out in your backyard. Thank you. I appreciate you. I want to thank Elizabeth. and copy both for taking the time to share their stories with me. And we know that there are a lot of other stories like theirs. And please, feel free to drop any stories you have in the comments down below. But I know that one of the more frustrating aspects of this is that even if Democrats retake either, or both, chambers of Congress here in 2026, heading into 2027, Lee Zeldin is still going to likely be the head of the EPA, or at least it will be someone supported by President Trump, and until President Trump is out of office. And if there is a democratic administration come 2029, that is probably the next time we're going to see the big sweeping changes necessary to effectuate, to have an impact on this crisis. And that new administration, what that could look like, and the debate that's now brewing in the Democratic Party. It's a little quiet right now, but in just a couple of weeks, the midterms will be beyond us. And so, all eyes are going to turn to the 2028 election. And one of the people who's been out there, making no secret of his ambitions in that race, is California congressman Rokana. And so he's joining us on the show this week. I'm very grateful for his time. And he wanted to talk about all of these issues, because it's going to be an important aspect of the 2028 presidential race upcoming. A few quick notes about how this interview is going to look first and foremost. The congressman is joining us from inside of his car, which is something that I have done on multiple occasions, both as the interviewer and the interviewee, passenger seat be darned. He looks great. It sounds great. So nothing to worry about there, and I understand, as someone who is maybe running for president is certainly running for re-election, and is working as a campaign surrogate in these important races across the country. He has places to go and people to see. So we appreciate him making the time. And second of all, you might notice that I'm not in my normal location of this apartment or over at the White House where I sometimes am for these interviews. You might also think that backdrop kind of looks familiar. And that's because it's the studio for my friend Jack Coacharella, who is also here on the Midas Touch Network. I was over at his place for his birthday party, which by the way, his birthday is tomorrow. Happy 24th, Jack. And so people were in all different places for this interview, but I really thought the conversation was compelling. And so I want to share it with you now. Here is my interview with Congressman Rokana. Congressman Kana, thanks so much for joining me on in your backyard. Thank you. Appreciate it. So my day job is to be White House correspondent for Midas Touch. And I'll tell you, it is hard for people who are paid professionally to stay on top of what this White House is doing to follow all the news is coming out. But one of the stories that I think hasn't been talked about enough is the administration essentially announcing that it's going to get rid of limits on emissions for fossil fuel power plants. What was your initial reaction to that announcement from the EPA? And how do you think something like this is going to affect people in their communities? Well, this is not just about tackling climate. I mean, obviously having unlimited emissions is going to accelerate the millions of parts per carbon and accelerate climate change. But it's also just having toxic air and not clean air. And it is going to cause asthma. It's going to cause health disease. And most Americans support clean air. So it's not just the exceeding the 425 parts per million on carbon emissions. It's also the impact on the air. Your state of California has been out in front of a lot of other states on climate related policies, the Trump administration has essentially gone to war with California over their ability to write its own emission standards and Republicans have gone after California's clean air policies. Regardless of how those legal fights play out, how is their resistance to California going to affect whether other states want to be aggressive on clean air and the climate in general? Well, they're going after California and they want to set a message to states across the country that they want unlimited pollution. They want to give a free range to fossil fuel companies. And this is ideological for them. So California, we have of course huge, renewable energy standards. We have standards to phase out carbon emissions and they don't like it. I want to get to the elephant in the room and I don't expect you to make any news here tonight with us about your plans for 2028. But I'm curious if you've been thinking about how the next administration, if it is a democratic administration, how they should rebuild this accountability for polluters, given what the administration has done, even pardoning people who have violated the Clean Air Act, what do you think are the first steps that a next administration, maybe economy administration, it should take regarding climate? And fossil fuel subsidies to clear a climate emergency, make sure you're massive investment in renewables. Of course, enforce the emissions laws, but also have a clean electricity program, something we didn't get through and build back better, which would basically call for the development of a clean electricity, clean energy, and find power plants that have excessive methane or other emissions, invest in public transportation, and really have a bold climate agenda. One of the things that we've been trying to do on this show very candidly is to make this issue more tangible for people in their daily lives, because I think a lot of the facts and figures that get thrown out there, they're not tangible for people and they're not affecting them day to day. So how do you ground an issue like this that is so big and existential in a way that's meaningful for someone when they head to the ballot box, when they're looking at their daily life and saying, okay, how is the climate affecting me? What kind of things are you saying to people? When you're out on the campaign trail because I know you're traveling, what are you saying to folks that helps them understand why this issue is really impacting them on a day to day basis? Well, we say that it's about clean air. People can understand that. They can understand it's about clean drinking water. They can understand it's about water conservation because you don't want to have the waste of water. They can understand that we shouldn't be dependent on petrol states like Iran and that the cost of gas goes up because we don't have alternatives like renewable energy. So these are all issues that affect people's quality of life, that affect their pocketbook and that's how we need to talk about it, not just the catastrophic events that could happen from climate emergencies. If Democrats take back either or both chambers of Congress in this upcoming midterm, what are you hoping that they're able to accomplish on this issue and who do you want to see kind of brought before Congress to investigate and provide oversight of this matter? Well, I would bring all in everyone from the EPA who was not enforcing the law because it's Congress's laws that are being disregarded and I would hold them accountable for giving industry a total pass and I would make sure that Congress is ending fossil fuel subsidies is holding accountable people who have lied to the American people but at the beginning it needs to start with holding the EPA accountable and these agencies accountable. What are you most concerned about and the second half of Trump's second term? So much of this term has been defined by Trump believing that he's able to do anything really and disregard what Congress has to say, disregard the courts, disregard any of the traditional guard rails that have blocked presidents from acting as unilaterally as Trump has. What are you concerned about in this kind of lame duck period of Trump's second term that he could do to try and tear down a lot of the protections that have been put in place around the environment? More wars. I mean, I mean, wars are awful for the environment. I mean, you could get into more wars with Cuba, with others in Latin America like we have in Iran and the environmental consequences of these missiles and the bombing and the mobilization is extraordinary. I'm also concerned that he could just continue to got basic regulations. I mean, basic safety for clean air, for clean water, gutting any of the emission standards that we have for power plants. This is his goal and he's going to see the more he loses in Congress, the more he's going to want a last shout and accomplish what he wants ideologically and through administrative power. To the point of the war, I was on the campaign trail with Pete Buttigieg and Texas this past weekend, and I asked him this question, I want to ask it to you as well. Do you think that the next administration, hopefully in many people's minds and democratic administration, will be the ones that have to end the war with Iran? Do you think it's going to continue through into 2029? Some form of it, unfortunately, yes. I mean, I do think he's going to pull back from the the constant bombing, but in terms of the struggle for moves, I think that still will not be open in terms of Iran taking action against some of our military bases. I still think they will. So, yes, I think it's still going to be an issue on the plate of the next American president. And then I've been listening as well. More than I'd like to admit lately to what Tucker Carlson has had to say on a lot of these issues. And one of the things he pointed out in one of his recent monologues was about how detrimental it is to the environment to have the bombing of oil refineries. You're seeing that happening in the Middle East. You're also seeing that happen in Russia with the diesel refineries they have there. Ukraine is bombing a lot of them. Are you concerned about kind of the emissions impact that you're seeing from these wars both in Russia as well as the Middle East? Yeah, it's very. I mean, that's what I started out by saying these are a catalyst for often environmental wars. It not just because of missiles and the bombs, but also because of the bombing of the oil refineries that really are causing enormous emissions and enormous damage to the world. Yeah, I'm curious. So, I'm from upstate New York originally right now. Alexandria Cazio Cortez is making kind of a swing through upstate New York. Not interesting. And many people are speculating that's because she might run for the US Senate and is trying to build support for that. I wonder if you have any thoughts about what her next step should be. And also, there was this interview that Gavin Newsom did with Jake Tapper in which he said that if Kamala Harris runs for president that he won't run because they'd be occupying kind of the same land and have a lot of the same supporters. I imagine it's a similar calculus for you with Alexandria Cazio Cortez where that kind of progressive lane is occupied. Would you run for president if Alexandria Cazio Cortez ran for president out of curiosity? Well, I haven't decided whether I'm going to run or not, but no other person's decision would have an impact. I felt that odd by Gavin because either you think you're the right person to lead the nation in a given moment. For me, the question is, will I be the person to lead it with a future economy, which is only working for a few billionaires. So I have a clear roadmap about how to get the economy working for the Pennsylvanians I grew up with and have a clear vision of what it's going to take and could I implement it? Either you think you're that person or you don't, but it's about, it's irrelevant whether 20 other or 25 other people run. I really wouldn't look at that in making the determination of whether you're ready to lead the free world. And I do think it'll be a lot of other people. Is there any other aspect of this issue, the emissions issue and just the environment more broadly that you think isn't being talked about enough that there are policy solutions here, policy concerns that are not being addressed right now in the conversation that we're having in Washington and just more broadly in the media about this issue? I think the Democrats shouldn't shy away from climate. We need to be a bold climate policy the day we get into office. That means declaring a climate emergency. That means ending fossil fuel subsidies. That means massive investment in renewables. That means getting our clean electricity plan through, which is going to basically incentivize and pay power plants to go to 100% renewable energy use and find the use of methane and other emissions. That means massive investment in public transportation and doing all of this will help create good jobs. It will help make us less dependent on high priced gas. It'll make us more secure from a national security perspective as we won't be as dependent on petro states. And it will finally start to reduce the emissions to make a debt on climate change. So I believe the Democrats really need to run on a bold climate agenda and make the case that that's good for national security, good for the pocketbook, good for quality of life. And too many Democrats I think are moving away from climate. That would be a mistake. Young people still care deeply about it. Obviously they're going to have to live with it. And I certainly will push for climate to be a big part of any agenda. Congressman O'Connor, thank you so much for your time. So I really appreciate it. Thank you, appreciate you. My thanks to the Congressman for that newsworthy and interesting interview leading up to the important conversations that we're going to continue having about this throughout the midterms and into the next presidential election. And again, my thanks to Kathy and Elizabeth for sharing their important stories and giving us a look at what life is like in their backyards. Let us know what's happening in years. Like I said, drop things in the comments. I am reading your comments and I'm really appreciative of all the feedback that we've gotten on this show so far. It's such an incredible time to be talking about these issues. They are more important now than ever. Our first episode was on data centers a couple of weeks ago. And even in just a time sense, all the conversation that we've had in this country about AI, about data centers, they're having like pro data center parties here in Washington to try and push back on that. Not sure how successful that will be. But these are the issues that are really going to be affecting my generation and all of our generations throughout these next couple of elections. And so I hope that you've appreciated the conversations we've been able to have so far. We'll be back in two weeks with another one of those conversations on another really important issue in this space. Until then, please continue to follow along and support the Midas Touch Network. And thank you so much as always for watching.