In Pursuit of Financial Wellbeing with Lauren Niestradt and Michelle Stevens from Truepoint Wealth Counsel

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This is part two of our Financial Well-Being series that we're doing in partnership with True Point Wealth Council, where we're having their incredible team come and share a little bit more about the work that they're doing there. In part two, I'm with Michelle and Lauren and I said before we get into the wealth questions, I wanted to know who you guys are and why you're here. So jump in. Hi. Sure. Yeah. So, well, I'm Michelle Stevens and I'm the Director of Financial Planning and a shareholder at True Point. So as the Director of Planning, I actually lead our Financial Planning team of a number of Financial Planners and Associates, but I'm also a Financial Planner myself. I've the Certified Financial Planner Designation and it means that I work with our clients to help them better understand their individual financial situation and then work towards goals that they have that are financially minded. And then personally, I'm really involved in volunteering and being with my community particularly anything around the arts. Oh. A lot of museums and-- We have great. I think the city is on fire in the arts. Is there something that jumps out to you right now that you just loved recently? Oh my gosh. So many things. I'm going to put you on the ground. I know. I was on a run of seeing ballet performances last year and they did Giselle in November of last year, which was just fantastic. I can't really recommend anyone who might be a little hesitant to go to the ballet. That's what I've heard. So it's so beautiful. It's so welcoming. It's not this art form that's out of reach. I want to know what that was. I saw that one too. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah, that, right? Like do the thing. Yeah, we have-- That's so great. Thank you. Yeah. And I'm Lauren Nistrat. I'm a Senior Fort Follower Manager at True Point. So what I do is help manage the investments of our clients and also help them understand their investments. That's a really big part of what I do is education around their investments. So they not only have someone helping them do it, but they also can feel confident that they understand what we're doing on their behalf. I'm a CFA. What that is is a chartered financial analyst. This is a global designation. It's kind of the highest designation you can get in the investment industry. Awesome. I'm also a Certified Financial Planner because financial planning and investments go hand in hand and you'll hear that in the conversation today. I'm also a mom of two young kids, a eight year old boy and a six year old girl. And I'm born and raised in Cincinnati and I've been involved in the community. Like Michelle, I've always been in the community. I've been involved in different community organizations right now. It's the zoo. Yeah. We love the zoo. I love the zoo. I could talk. This is come as a zoo cover. I love the zoo. So yeah, that's about me. Great. It's just it's good. I think this is where these conversations, when you work for a company, but your whole humans that are there. And I love asking this question because every woman I know is in pursuit of something. Like whether it's in work and so or it's a good cup of coffee or the good underwear. Like you know, every we're all chasing something. And so what are you guys in pursuit of right now? Yeah, I would say I'm always in pursuit of helping people achieve a sense of financial well-being. Just you know, throughout my career and everything that I've learned, it's helping other people feel confident in the decisions that they make that makes me feel good and I just feel like the more people that I can help achieve that, then it just you know, it feeds me. I will. Yeah. I'm in pursuit of and this has become a thing of mine in the past few years is getting more women in this industry, particularly in investment management, not just financial planning because there's decent amount of female financial planners, but within the investment management industry, there are always like the one female on the investment team. Like at every firm there's just one female on the team of you know, eight to ten. And in the CFA world, there's like less than 20% of charter financial analysts are women. Like it's just unfortunate. And I think it just goes back to that old school mindset that it's like kind of money and finance or a man's job. Yeah. Yeah. And investing is you know, for men, but like women are actually shown to be better investors than men because they make more money. Say it ain't so. No, sorry. Oh, I went to take it there. No, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I really just really want to encourage more women to get into the investment industry. Yeah. And it's hard, you know, you kind of have to start at the college level and I know you see doing some good things with their women and finance group, but I would just, I really want to get in. I love that. Well, it's a clear, like that's um, it's, I think it goes back to even noticing with Gwen and Diana like, you guys love what you do. And when you love what you do, you, I mean, I find myself a lot in the conversations. Like, I want to open as many doors for women as possible because like to me, like permission, like, because we don't know because we've never had this ability, right? Like we jokes like, what year was it that women could get a credit card? It was in the 80s, right? I think. I can't wait. It wasn't that long ago. I mean, right? And so it is important. It is important to say, like, wait a second. If I brought two new women to the table, this isn't a thousand. Could I get two women to understand why this is important, right? That's um, actually, this is perfect because I don't want us to get too far into our conversation in a way. I want to go back and just differentiate from episode one and what Gwen and Diana did and what you guys do. Yeah. So Gwen and Diana are advisors, okay? So you can kind of think about them as broad generalists. They build that strong relationship with the client and understand what the client needs help with and can speak very generally on a lot of different topics with the client, but then we're specialists. So I go very deep in just investments only. Well, I understand financial planning and taxes, like, my area and specialty is deep into investments. Yeah. Whereas Michelle is deep in financial planning. So step one is Gwen and Diana. They're your intake gals. They're the visionaries, right? Like, they're sitting with you and they're holding. You're calling them because you might have a change coming up and, you know, maybe some light advice, but like you guys are in on the meat, like, right? Like this is where we're starting to actually. So like they're painting the picture. They're sketching it. You guys are getting in there and like doing the paint by numbers with it in a way, right? Right? That has always been how I've described like putting together an investment portfolio is paint by numbers. Oh my gosh. See? Boom. Yeah. I love, no, because it's not like that's how my brain. I'm like, oh, okay. So they're coming on. They're helping you. I think this is why I'm having so much fun because I can be like, no, I tell me, right? Like, they're the relationship centric one. There's a relationship with everyone. Sure. But you have a whole team. So there's a suite that you get. Yeah, I can jump into that because I'm in financial planning in that a lot of people don't even understand what financial planning is. I love this. Yeah. I think it's partly because we use a lot of the same words interchangeably financial planner, financial advisor. And in some worlds and actually even with our own commas group, you know, the advisor does financial planning. So they kind of do everything themselves, but that's more customized to the relationships that they have with their clients. [BLANK_AUDIO] smaller client in particularly in the comma space. Like, commas is really a solution to a group that has really never been targeted 'cause they've never had enough, right? So I love that. - Yeah, and I, I mean, sometimes people draw the line in distinction for complexity, but you know, it doesn't really matter at any age in your career, you can have a complex situation. It's more that the needs are, I want a one person to interact with, I have these goals I wanna work on. And then on the true point side, where Lauren and I set, these clients have far more complexity and going, you know, their networks might be a little bit higher. So there's much more planning that needs to be done. And we thought it made sense to break out that advisor and planner role, to allow the relationship advisor to really get to know those clients and to focus on that side. And as Lauren said, for the financial planner or the investment person to specialize in that area, really honing in on those skills. And so you can do both as a financial advisor, some do financial planning and advice, or you can just be a financial planner and your focus is solely on creating that path around what goals they have and how they wanna achieve that. - So an advisor can plan, a planner may advise, but for you guys, it's almost like the advisor is this soft touch where you're getting in and like being the analytic side of it, not that you're not coming to the table with the box of tissues, but like you can get in there and have a clear, you're staying in within the line, you know, that number two, that little tiny rose petal that you're trying to paint right now. Like, but like we all speak and work together. - Yes. - Did you express for the client? - That's it, it's a whole team care. But yeah. - It's important to understand that there are different responsibilities that people have. I want that to be, that was a big part of this, like when Christine had messaged, I was like, I wanna have this conversation because it is so overwhelming. And we feel dumb and there's no reason at all for women to feel dumb anymore in the financial space because we can have this conversation and I can ask the dumb question of, well, can you explain it a little clearer on advisor and a planner, right? And like, because that's what I want this community to do is like we've so inundated with data and we have stuff coming at us. We're juggling home and work and community driven responsibilities. And so tell us, like, dumb it down and take it back to any of the basics always because I think every woman, even the smart ones, even the ones who know it, love the simplicity of the direction of this conversation, I think. So I love that you like really broke it down. And then it's clear, now I get it. Not that I haven't, but like, even now I'm like, oh, god, Lee, it's really so much less complicated than we make it. - Well, and there's no reason we should all understand what these rules are. There's no explanation, there's no education around it and people use them interchangeably or use them different ways. I think the most important tool that we have is to ask what does that mean? - Yeah. - What does it mean to be a financial advisor? What does it mean to do? Or someone coming in and going, oh, I need this big financial plan because Sally at work told me I did or, you know, and really they just need to have a conversation with an advisor because they just, it is so beyond. - Yeah. - So I love that you like, we've really dissected the advisor and the planner side of things, right? Like, so that feels clear. Now what? - The plan is, how do you integrate the planning and the investment? So why don't you talk a little bit about like, how that all starts with the plan. - And I've got questions that I'll tease it, but like we're here, right? Like, let's, - Well, and I like to explain what is financial planning. - Yeah. - You know, we do presentations educationally in the community and I often start with a slide that says what is financial planning because most people don't know what the answer to that is and they feel like they should know it so they feel stupid asking the question of what is financial planning. Then we don't come and get help because. - Exactly, and the answer is, it is anything and everything, which is why it's hard to define and why we don't know what the answer is. So you should ask what is financial planning 'cause the question is, what is financial planning mean to you? But in broad terms, it can be anything from, you wanna get a better understanding of your cash flow. You wanna know what money is coming in, what you're spending, what you're saving, et cetera. It can be working towards certain goals. - Yeah. - It can be working towards the end. - It's the education, it's the house, it's the car, it's those things. - But a lot of times people just think of financial planning and investing for the future and that is a very, very big part of it, but it's one facet of the greater picture. The more important part is to figure out what do you know about your finances? - Yeah. - What do you want to know about your finances? And then what are you working toward? Because a financial plan is not one thing and it doesn't get set in place and is done forever. It is going to change. It's living and breathing. - Life. - It is a mechanism. And we often joke that you finish with a financial plan and then something and it has already changed. - Yeah, it's a life change. - That's it. - But that's okay, because it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the plan itself. It just means that you have it in place as that path to follow. - Sure. - And then hopefully you have a person, an advisor or a financial planner, who can help you stay on that path, who can hold you accountable, answer questions, encourage you when you're having a tough time. - It's really like a cheerleader for your money. - Mm-hmm. - Right? - Yeah, I mean, I get so much joy when I work with clients for a coach, a coach and a cheerleader, right? But you get both. - Yeah, but when clients are finally to the point where they're like, I'm encouraging them to do more. I'm encouraging them to do a bunch of stuff that they weren't taking advantage of. It's like, no, you're in a really good place. You've put in the hard work and you're just-- - Go on vacation. - Go for it. - Find out any hard. - Yeah. - Mm-hmm. - Okay, yeah, I like it. I like it. And no, it makes so much sense. Like, I think it's the brain over complicates these things because this stuff, I think, specifically in money where it's a comparison syndrome. - Yes. - And so, again, like goes back to episode one, we're comparing our success or financial freedom to Taylor Swift. Well, I'll pop the bubble, we're not her. And so it's a very different conversation that we need to have, but still it's an important conversation that we need to have. - It's an important conversation and one that we're not taught. You know, there's not a lot of education around your own personal finances unless you go out and seek it. Lauren and I have background in education. We've also gone after designations. So we have a lot of that knowledge. - Yeah. - Most people don't. - No. - And the only way they learn anything about how to manage their money is by watching friends or family. - Or how mom and dad did it. - Exactly. - And unfortunately, a lot of times mom and dad are not doing it the best. - No, I mean, I'll give credit to my mom. My mom was an old school envelope girl. Like, oh man girl would save her some pennies up in there. Like she did, like, and she taught that. And what was the craziest, like I bought my first condo when I was 19 because of her cash system. Like, and then it all went downhill 'cause I started businesses and I'm like, I'm finally writing that, but like, like it worked and I'm like, okay, I can't stash on the loops of cash and my, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, there's no like, on the loops of cash and in the mattress anymore. But like, it's that. We learn. - We learn through trial and error. - Yeah. - We learn from other people. And that's why people feel so ill prepared because they think I'm supposed to just be going with this knowledge. - Yeah. And I think money specifically over a lot of the things that we think we are born to inherently know. This is just such a, it's a different depth because we have to face truce that I think we don't want to face 'cause we want to be at C and we're still at 8.5, right? Step of that. So you're planning it, but you're investing it. - Yes, so once we've kind of run a draft financial plan for a client and understand what their goal is, what they want this money to do for them, then we can say, okay, we know now what a better way to invest the portfolio is based on those goals. If someone's far into retirement and they're just wanting to preserve what they have and they're not trying to get their money to generate lots more money, they just want to preserve that amount. Then we're gonna have a lot less stock exposure, a lot less market exposure and more bond exposure, which are less volatile than stocks, so that we can preserve those funds and not subject them to too much risk. Conversely, like young investors and even investors in their retirement, depending on what their goals are, would have much more risk in their portfolio. It's we tailor that to what the client's goals are, but we really can't start to do that tailoring until we know what the goals are. So the goal's conversation always comes first. - Yeah. - And the differentiation between what people think they should do because someone else is doing it and what they should do based on what's actually right for them. Because so many people come with goals in mind that their parents had or their friends had, or they come to us and say, well, once I'm retired, I have to be really conservative [BLANK_AUDIO] right investments, right? It's like there's no one answer for everybody. Because somebody who's risk adverse, like they're not, even if they want the most and but risk is gonna make them so anxious. Like it's not a smart, like you're not gonna feel, 'cause again you care about how they feel. - Yes. - So like they're not gonna feel good, they're gonna be so stressed, so anxious. So you're helping mitigate that by like taking the time to say if we do this, it's gonna take you two years to get there or four years to get there. Like again, it's, yeah, you always start with ability to take risk. So what's your financial ability to have a more growth oriented portfolio? That's the starting point. But if say your ability to take risk allows you to take, you know, the ultimate risk and have 100% of your portfolio and stocks, but that would cause you to not sleep it. - Yeah, it's not. - If the ability's there, then the willingness trumps the ability. So if you're willingness to take that risk, you know, ultimately says, okay, well maybe we're gonna pair it back just 'cause I need to be able to stick to this investment plan. And so, you know, ratchet it down on the risk side of things so you can stick with it because we don't want people calling us up when, you know, the markets in turmoil because of something going on in the world and saying, I can't take it anymore. - What did you do? (laughing) - Move me to cash. - It's worse, worse thing to do it. - Yeah, 'cause you gotta hold tight at that point. Like, the pendulum will swing. We've all witnessed it. We know, like, I will say that again, I think with what, like, the pendulum always swings. - It does, but everyone in that moment says, I'm gonna lose everything. - This time's different. I know it's different. - Yeah. - It's the comparison part too that you mentioned earlier. - Yeah, my friends do it exactly. I'm supposed to be more aggressive because that's what I'm supposed to be. I said, nothing is supposed to be the way it is. It's the way you want it to be. - So your willingness to be as honest with your advisor and your planner and your investor, your team, your financial partners, right, is going to help mitigate as much as possible. So like the, I would say it is like the more you can get out of your own way and let them do the job you've hired them to do, shocker if you trust the experts, but that's why the relationship matters so much. Like I always tell people, date, go talk to a different banker, go talk like, if you go in and you have a conversation and you didn't feel good, listen to that. But if you do feel good, frickin' listen to that. Like allow yourself to be vulnerable. And I think especially in a conversation, it's gonna show a different trust, right? Like, yeah, it matters. - And it can take time. It's not gonna be done in the first instance that you said you talked with someone. You're not gonna become a millionaire after the first. I'd probably say quite a few conversations. You know, like let's be real, I think that's it too, is like, oh, I have the conversation now everything's fixed. Well, it takes work. - It takes work and it takes time too. I think correct the 20 years of deficit that we, majority of us spend because we don't wanna have the conversation. So maybe this even these, this series is almost like, man, can we get five women in their 20s to take control of this conversation for themselves? Like, right, like five women will turn into a million women, but like five women's obtainable. It's like, if you're listening to this right now and you're like, man, this is the call for the conversation. We can't make it any easier for you to feel safe in having this conversation 'cause we've teed up such an incredible group who's like ready to hold the hand. And there's something different about this younger generation right now is that they're more willing to talk to their friends about their personal finances and ask for a recommendation that's something you need to this younger generation. - That's the best time for you. - Yeah, it's much more taboo in our generation to talk about what are you doing with your community? - Do you have that conversation among your friend? Like, do you, no. - That's it, there it is, right? No, 'cause I was like, I don't talk to my girlfriends about my stuff. - My friends, no, I manage investments. And, you know, a few of them have come to me and said, can you help me invest my 401k? - Yeah. - Help me look at this and I gladly do it, but I don't wanna push that on. - Yeah. - They're not ready to have a conversation. - But also have the conversation. - Yeah, have the conversation. - Have the conversation. - Ask when you have a question. - Don't just sit in my house. - I think that is like a, that is a law women and humans. I don't think that's a woman thing, but like I love talking about asking because I think that we hold back, again, it goes back to, we have to be vulnerable. Like the moment we ask is the moment we say we don't know. And I think we've been conditioned to have to know. Like I joke all the time, the last thing I wanna know is at all, you know? Like I know I'm really good at hugs and everything else is a bonus from there because like otherwise, like I'm sitting in your stress of like what I should know. And like you guys confidently go like no, I'm an expert in this. I know this, I can help you. Come ask me and I'll make it as soft as possible. Like I think that's part of it is I think, it's the softness, it's the tender, it's the feminine side of this conversation. I think a lot of this that we've had access to in the financial space, it's been a very masculine, heavy, you just do, you're told and not taught and I think women wanna be taught. And I think in order to teach, we have to slow it down. We have to go back to basics. We have to talk about really boring stuff that we think. They should know, right? And so, I mean we've talked like really what is financial planning, right? It's this start of this conversation. It's meeting with your advisor. It's pushing out your vision and it's saying out loud, maybe for the first time in your life, things that you would want. It's you gathering everything and going through it, right? And going through all of it and trying to aggregate it into one space. - Yeah, it's gathering anything and everything financially related to a person's life. And the first and most important thing is finding out what they wanna know about it. How deep do you wanna go into this? What questions do you have that I can help you either answer or work toward? And for some people, they also don't want to know too much. They trust in the fact that I've brought someone on to help me with this and I'm kind of put a lot of that ownership on this individual. That's okay too, but you should be involved in whatever capacity you feel comfortable in and you're interested in. - Right, because just because you do this, doesn't all of a sudden mean that like you've got to spend 10 hours, you're like you don't want, I don't, right? Like I'm like I don't wanna spend 10 hours with you. I don't have capacity to spend 10 hours a week like going over everything. And so having someone I trust is like for-front 'cause I know my involvement would be lower. But also if you have somebody that's, 'cause it's new, there is that high touch you've got your advice. You bring your advisors kind of in a way back in to help do some of that. - Yeah, that's the hardest. - The hardest. - Yes, and there's a song about that even when it's the first time's the hardest. Yeah, that you're right. I think that's such a good rule in anything is like remember the first year, right? Like it's in grief. Like the first, getting through all your first is really true there, right? Like any time there's a change, like you have to learn it and you have to learn it seasonally. Like 'cause I think we are in a seasonal community, right? Like the winters do look different than our summers or and so that all matters. - Yeah. - Yeah, how you come to it and how engaged you are. - Yeah, matters. - And that can change over time. It's nothing as said in stone. - Should change over time. - Right, like my needs in 20s are different than my needs in-- - Vastly, yeah. - Vastly different. And for some people, they don't even know what their needs are. And I think that can be the daunting part because we always talk about a financial planning, you know, putting a plan in place around your goals. - Yeah. - And some people like, I don't know what my goals are or the only goal they can think of is, well, I want to retire at some point. - Right. - And just having a conversation with someone to help them figure out what their goals are can be financial planning. It doesn't have to be actually solving the answer. It can be just working towards the question. - I love it. I love it. I love just, I mean, the sense, just the level of support and care. I just want to keep coming back to that because I think that's, I mean, we go into the bank, we deposit our money and it's transactional. So I don't know that I think this is new in a lot of ways. - It is. - Yeah, and I don't want to jump the gun because this kind of gets a little bit complex, but when you're looking for an advisor or financial planner is that you're making sure that you're looking for someone who's a fiduciary. So you're talking about that support and care, but you then have to look at the different models of financial planners and advisors because if they're not a fiduciary, if they're not required to act as a fiduciary, they don't have to act in your best interest legally. So working with someone who's a fiduciary, like true point and there's many other firms that operate in that way, they're gonna act in your best interest and want to do things in a best interest, whereas some firms aren't required to do that. So they might be selling you something that gets them a commission or something like that. So. - Yeah. But we are in the support and care business. - Yeah, no, I think that's great. I think it's good to say it out loud because I think that's part of it is like, this stuff is in a way, it's, we gate keep it and we don't have to, like we need the masses to. know, right? Like and to simplify it. So I appreciate you guys keep coming back and like you'll break it down a little bit more each time because it education is the biggest piece, right? Education and confidence because it takes time to become confident in your own financial world. And it isn't going to happen overnight, but ultimately that's the goal that you feel confident in what you have in place, you feel confident in what you're doing. And that you know you have support when things are a little difficult. Yeah, and I love that. Again, I'm like, oh yeah, of course. I think especially I put myself as the single mom in making all of those decisions and goodness. It would be so great to not have to do all of that at that level and feel supported in a different way. And so yeah, it's it's interesting. And it goes back to ask the question because we love it when clients call us about the little things. Ask the questions. Like if you're paralyzed by a decision, call us and you want to tell you like, yeah, do it. Go ahead. You'll tell them the truth. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Tell them the truth and we may not always know the answer, but we'll help them figure it out. There it is. Yeah. That's the best part. It's like to what you said before. I can't know everything right in the financial world, but I can know how to research. You can find the question in 20 minutes compared to 20 hours, right? Like I talk about it a lot and I say that like not asking is in a way that's form of suffering because I think it like breaks it down to the heaps so we can hear it. Like if I know I can ask you and you can save me time and effort and resource stress, anxiety, worry. And I but I choose not to because you're busy or I just had I asked you a question yesterday. God forbid I have two questions in a row. Like whatever this I mean, hi, raise your hand if you're a woman and have like had that fear paralyzed fear go through your body. No, just me cool. But right, it's so it's that idea where like if I'm not asking I'm actively choosing my own suffering. Well, I don't want to suffer and so it helps me be like, no, I'm going to ask you because I don't want to I can suffer less, right? And so it just is this it breaks it down again in a way to make it a little I think easier to ask because I'm like, well, I don't want to suffer. Yeah, asking's a lot easier then. Yeah. We're not meant to be islands. We're supposed to be working in community. Yeah, I think we've got to build that trust up. I think women need to understand that women aren't here to cut anyone off the island anymore. We're here to just put our islands together. You know, you know, yeah, rising tide lifts all boats. You know, this is like how and why you plan for your future. But I think it's it's today. Like there is no, if you're not doing it, this conversation's like bright red neon sign that says like, now, yes, and it's personal. It's never too late to start. It's never too late. Never. Yeah, to start. And I think that people need to overcome that too. If they say that, well, I'm in my 30s and 40s and maybe I should already have this amount saved. It's like, we'll start now. Yeah. And there's no sheds because none of it's true because it's so customary. Yes. Yeah. And I think that for so long, it's been a system that has been exclusive. Yes. And you guys, especially I think with what your buildings do commas is saying, wait a second, this isn't an exclusivity anymore. This is this is real life. And this is long-term sustainability for the world. Like, you know, like, this is world impact, not just community impact by because you're empowering them to live their life to the fullest in a way. Yes. And just to feel financially secure, no matter who you are or how much money you have, you have to feel secure. Even even at a poverty right exactly like I've that is so. Yeah. That's one of the the maslow higher give needs. That's one of the requirements is you have to feel like you can survive. Yeah. And if you don't have that, everything else crumbles around you. Yeah. So just taking that first step towards what will make me feel secure? Yeah. What questions do I have? What am I, what can I do tomorrow to make this a little bit better? And again, starting with asking that question. So this question says once you have clarity around your vision and goals, you can then start investing in a way that aligns, which is exactly I think that's it. We've talked through that and you started investing and you haven't done it before. Yeah. And like, so if someone comes and says that company doesn't align with my goals, I don't believe in the mission. Like, you know, you can go down to that level with a. What's so like, we phrase that question. So if someone comes to you and says, okay, I'm ready to invest, we have the plan. We've been advised. It's time to talk to you. But I want to be risky. But this company that you would typically invest in, I don't believe with their, even their morals. Oh. So like more responsible. Yeah. Yeah. We definitely have those conversations. Yeah. Especially younger. I was, I know it's sad. We've got to bless these kids. They're going to save the world. It's fine. I sure hope so. I know. No pressure kids. They want to align their beliefs with their investment. Yeah, they do. We have to caution people on that because if someone says, oh, I'm not going to buy XYZ company because it does something I don't like. Someone else is going to buy XYZ company and they're going to make money and that company is going to continue to exist. And you're not buying shares of that company is not going to make them crumble. I love that. No, I love love life. I'm so glad you said it. So I mean, and that's just the honest truth. Yes. What we more encourage people who have strong beliefs about their money going towards causes that they care about is to work with the financial plan and saying, well, how much of my earnings each year can I set aside to go to causes I care about? Invest your portfolio so you can maximize your returns in a way that aligns with your plan. But then if you have funds that you can set aside to go towards causes where you can actually see the tangible benefits of giving that money to that organization versus saying, I don't want to buy this company because they produce oil and that's for whatever in carbon, you know, all the things we need in our everyday. Yeah, you choosing not to invest in that company is not going to distribute that company. Keep them from operating. So, you know, actually invest take them, take the money and right now. Yeah. But ultimately, you know, again, as a fiduciary, like we're we are giving the advice, but ultimately they want to invest in a way that aligns with their goals. We can do that. Yeah. Um, it just we like to have the conversation really tease out the goals and what they're trying to achieve. Well, does it allow then for very black and white conversation, right? Great. We can do this. This is what it looks like. We can do this. I think that's part of the thing. You know, my dad always said like math, he can always find the answer. He's like, that's one of the coolest parts about it, you know, and like it's true. Like it's there. I know we talked about like these big projections and people don't feel like it's accessible because they're not there yet. But it's that same kind of thing, I think. It's like, um, oh, where am I trying to take this? It is all related. It all matters. And it matters now more than ever because of the quickness of the world changing, because of the morals that are coming to the table, because that 20 year olds are taking more control over than I think they ever have. Well, just like we put a plan in place for like the big picture and the path, there's a plan that's made around the portfolio in the investment strategy and sticking to that plan and not jumping on every fad is also a really important part. Yeah, yeah. And I wanted to go back to, you know, you brought up the conversation of what if I don't want to invest in this company? You know, I wanted to take a step back there and say, we actually don't recommend investing in individual companies. So buying great individual stocks of companies because that adds a level of risk that you just don't need to take. So in investing, you know, you have the option to go and be a stock picker and say, I'm going to buy this stock and this stock and this stock and put together this little portfolio of, you know, my favorite companies. Sure. That's not going to be diversified. It's going to be highly risky, depending on just the performance of those individual companies versus you can buy what's called an exchange traded fund or an ETF that just tracks a broad market index, like the S&P 500s, the largest 500 companies in the United States, 500 companies you're getting exposure to and you can buy that ETF for next to zero dollars and just track what the market's doing. Sure. And that's what you want to do. Yeah. You don't want to buy the individual companies because That's going to concentrate a risk into your core. - And it's chasing. - Chasing. - It's chasing fans. - It's like the game stop. - Yeah, oh my gosh, the game stop. - Yes. - People, you know, block game stop and just maybe wrote it up, but then they wrote it down. - 'Cause they didn't know how to get out. - Right, yeah. - Then time. - Their emotions, they just like, I want more, I want more. - Yeah. - And then it just, people started getting out and then it felt, and so. - And because you're tracking, you're watching it like a hawk for those trends. - Yeah, but we don't need to follow the trends 'cause we're right, right, right. - Yes, yes. - Yes. - See that and we say, don't do that. That's a great example of what not to do. - Correct. That's gambling. Not to do that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. That's it. - And seeing a strategically planned out, not gambling, not making it a game. Because this is your money and your future. And it shouldn't be a game. - And so this, again, this isn't a today. You're not doing this to solve today's problem. You're doing it for tomorrow's. - Yes. - Yeah. - And does that reminder that good things take time? - Yeah. - Investments take time, planning takes time. - But time is of the essence here. - Well, no, it's like your greatest, especially if you're still in your career and still earning money and you're just visioning for the future, time is on your side. Oh yeah. - Again, I think you had this conversation when you met with Deanna and Gwen, whatever you can start with now, $20, whatever. Like those compounding returns over time just are so much better than waiting until it's right. - Yes. - Man, we like to do that, don't we? - Yeah. - Five more dollars. And then I'll have enough. I'll be good enough. I'll look, you know, all the things that we tell ourselves. - Right. If you can, I mean, a lot of people do that with college savings for their kids. Maybe they'll take $100 of their paycheck every week and put it in a college savings account. But like, do that for your own investment account. - Right. - You know, set aside whatever it is you can a week, you know, in an automatic investment. Or look at your budget at the end of the year and say, I actually have, you know, excess from a bonus or whatever that. - Sure, invest. - Yeah. 'Cause time is on your side. That earlier you can do it. - So if someone comes to you guys and they do that, and then there's an emergency, what happens? - Yeah. So the plan is always going to have setbacks. - Yeah, that is something that we have to address and reiterate is there's going to be moments when something-- - Because it's living and breathing. That says, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - We have to take funds out for some reason because something that we were prepared for happened. The hope is that there are other things that we've set in place so that maybe we're not pulling funds out of the portfolio, but that you have essentially buckets for different priorities, one of which is for emergencies. - Which is why the plan matters. - Which is why the plan matters and it also matters that you don't get discouraged. And I think a big part is that people will work towards a goal, they have a setback and they give up. But if you have someone on your side who's saying, that's okay, this is normal, we're just going to keep moving forward, then you're more likely to continue saving and continue on that path. But it's life, you know? Things will go sideways. The other part is the goals might change. You have this perfect ideal in mind, but something changes in your life over five years, 10 years, 20 years, and now it's an entirely different path you're on. That's okay. It just means that you are still making progress towards whatever those goals are. - Yeah. Can people invest without planning? - Can. - With you, right? And like just, like, is it generally, we don't take on investment only clients? - Yeah, I mean, because I mean, I would, it makes sense, like this, it's the staircase, right? Like you've got to build something from the base, you can't just jump in and you can't, like there are people that you do that. Of course, there's all day long. - Investment comes up, but like, the planning is so. - I think that's what I want it. Like it's, you can do that, but that is not protecting of when something goes wrong. That is not the emergency fund. And it's not, and it's the willingness or ability that you guys are having to delineate between what an emergency fund is and what your investment is. I think again, like, I know that sounds like so common sense. It sounds common sense, but like hearing it, it's hard to achieve it, and it's hard to like, when you're in it, right? When you're in it, but like again, I think that's why the $5 matters, 'cause even when you're in it, like there's still, people can still come to you no matter what they're at, 'cause the only way to do something different about it is by having a different conversation, having it, putting a team in place. How does, how do these services get paid for? - Oh, great question. So, with Affirmac ours, it's a fee-based service. So, we charge a fee based on the assets that we're managing for them. So, it's not on like the value of your home or anything like that. It's purely what are the investments that we're investing on your behalf? And it's a percentage fee. So, if you're managing $10,000 or $10 million, yeah, it's a percentage fee that gets charged quarterly, but it's an annual rate. - Sure. - And I think that there's value in understanding why this is a good setup versus maybe paying a place that works on commission or things like that is because we win when you win and we lose when you lose. If the market's going up and your portfolio value is going up, you're winning 'cause your investments are growing, but we're also getting more dollars to share the value is growing. If the market's going down and the value's going down because the market's not doing well, we're also getting less dollars for that business too. But it includes that 1%-hv includes all of our services. So, tax planning and tax preparation, estate planning, financial planning, the investment management, it's all in that fee. And I think that some people think, well, gosh, I'm paying so much to have you manage these investments and if you're just putting it in market index, I could do this myself. It's like, well, there is so much more value in the financial planning, the tax planning, the estate planning, just the investment management. - There's so much. - And it's also the fact that we'll have clients that come that have done all of this themselves for years. They have done the investing themselves. - That was my dad. - He built a financial plan, but some people also just get to the point where they're like, I don't want to do this anymore. - Yeah, that was finally him. I was like, I think I'm running it. - I finally noticed someone cutting my grass because I was tired of doing that. - Yeah. - And that's okay because you realize I don't have to do this and I can trust someone as long as that trust is there to do it responsibly for me. - Yeah. - Well, and it goes back into this isn't a quick grab. This isn't a quick solve. Like this is a long term. This is your whole life. - Mm-hmm. Yeah. - And that's why the planning part is really important because the investing will change and you need to have someone who's helping you make those changes. That's acknowledging when your life is shifted and when we need to make an allocation change or a savings change that you may not have an awareness of because your life is busy and your day to day is busy. - There it is. - Lift the paddle. - Your behavioral biases keep you from making decisions that are appropriate. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Oftentimes we become psychologists and we're doing it just to work through the biases people have. - Exactly and that's why I like to talk about financial wellness because it is a big picture of who we are. Finances touches every aspect of our lives without some sense of financial security. We aren't going to be thriving and everyone should kind of focus on how they want to feel about their money and being to a point where they are confident in the decisions that they're making when it comes to their finances. And that is a sense of financial well-being and if we're having these conversations around mental health we need to have it around financial health. - Yeah. You've talked a lot about the feeling. And so I feel like even in our pre-call like that was something that was really important for you. Do you find that when you ask that question to people like if someone said you ask like how do you feel about your money or how do you want to feel about your money like do people know how to answer that? - No. - Yeah, no, I like not. Yes. - The honest answer is no. But that is part of what we work. - Yeah. - Exactly. - Actually we use something in conjunction with financial planning called life planning and it is conversational questions that get them to think about who they are, how they raised with money, how they feel about it and what that has impacted in their life. I will often ask clients in meetings, how does that make you feel? And it can be a little uncomfortable because - Sure, I do. - Who's talking about it starting from the same thing? - No, no. I'm like, but I'm like do you feel secure? Do you feel confident? Do you feel worried? I was going to say like what are the words that you're searching for and I love that secure or confident - Or worried. - Or worried. - I need to know what you're feeling to know how to help you overcome it or help you encourage it if it is a positive feeling. - Right, 'cause if they're worried and you don't know, you can't help. I mean, again, this is very basic, but this is why it's important to have the conversation. - And money is not just this black and white thing that we deal with. It is a part of our lives, and we are going to feel certain ways about it. It's not, money is so good. I think we've had to, I know I've had to learn that in a way. And as someone who's built businesses from nothing, I see now I want more money because I just wanna build a bigger team. I wanna have a bigger impact. Like it all is part of it. And I think that money is just one of these weird topics that you're right. We don't engage. And I'm very transparent with my kids on, not to the point, but I'm open with them about where we are and what's real. Going to Disneyland over Christmas just because your friends doing it isn't real for us. If that's, and I'll say, if that's something that you guys wanna do, let's talk about it 'cause we need to build a plan because I need to plan that for next year. And so like it isn't this, oh well that's what, let's just go do that 'cause that's not real. Like what world is that? Where, so like that conversation of, no here's what we actually have and here's what we can do. And I think telling your kids, I think there's a lot of shame. Yes. And I don't want to feel ashamed by what I do have or what I don't have. Like that's not what I'm going for, right? Especially when I'm working so hard to build it. And so it's that. Like I want, I think permission for people to talk about with their kids and like share what's going on. This comes up in conversations 'cause we often with our clients will reflect backwards on their history 'cause it's all learned behavior, right? Like what that creates is an awareness of what they're teaching their children. Yeah. The realization of is this what I wanna teach my kids? What should I teach my kids? We have a lot of clients who are always asking us for books or education or can they come and talk to their kids because again, were they says not something that were being taught? No, and they don't wanna hear it from their parents either 'cause if I'm like, you should save $10, they're like, I can save it to DoorDash. (laughing) And I think, I thought, Port Ellis. Well, I think, Deanna, like I think that was, she shared that in her story, right? And her situation as a kid was why she built the way she did and why she talks to her kids because she saw when there's no communication around it, what can happen? Exactly. So, if you need help with that 'cause not everyone is comfortable having those conversations. So again. Oh, it's the majority of us aren't. You need someone to help you navigate it. Yeah, agree. 'Cause you don't have the tools to have the financial conversation, what we do. Yeah, and yeah. And I want an army of people, like again, right? I think that's what's the need is, the isolation is so self-inflicted. Yes. Yeah. And there's a whole other way to feel supported and championed and loved through something that is complicated or we over-complicate or is vulnerable because we need to break down the barriers of entry. Yeah. It's asking questions and it's not being embarrassed when you don't know the answer. Yeah. And it's not feeling shame that you do want to have money to make your life what it is. I'm so excited for this conversation because I, if, well, one, if they come to you, hopefully they'll be like, I heard you on the podcast, but like I even want to hear, like I wish we were live. You know, like I want to ask the questions. I want it because I want to give them more knowledge, right? Like I want to be able to continue having this because I want to hear from women who finally took control because they finally felt, wait, I am the one, I'm standing in the middle of this. Yeah, I'm not where I want to be, but dear God, we don't have to do it all by ourselves. And they felt, listen to, they felt. We all want to be seen heard and loved isn't that the truth of like it doesn't matter like what it is? Like that's just such a human and to know that you can have this hard vulnerable conversation in a really human way feels really incredible. Is there anything that you guys feel like you didn't talk about, you didn't cover, we covered a lot, we went over a lot of big terms. I feel like we broke down so many terms today. We should light on so much, but is there anything that you feel like you didn't cover or capture? I mean, I think the one thing I want women to understand is that, again, investing doesn't have to be complicated, it doesn't have to be the way you hear about it in the news and everything. You can start investing in very basic, easy ways by just, again, tracking broad market indices and just starting with small dollars if that's all that you have. It's time really is on your side. If you can start early, that's going to really benefit you in the long run. And again, just not being afraid to ask the questions, but be mindful of the way that different advisors charge fees to get paid for what they're doing. I think that's just really important and ask the question, don't be afraid. It's just kind of like remember fiduciary. Yes, remember fiduciary. Ask what the costs are. And if you don't feel comfortable, like, you don't-- You don't understand. Don't be a person. Yeah. That's what I was going to say is I think it's important that you understand that this is your life and your future. So it should be personal to you. It should make sense to you. And if it doesn't, then it's OK to say this isn't working, and I need to find something else. Also, that brings up another great point is working with two different advisors is not diversification. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's so smart. What did people do that? Man, I'm protecting myself by working with two different advisors. And two different groups or two different firms? Yeah, all of it. It's-- And it-- We had to have that much time. Yeah, and then you-- Like, again, back to make it simple. It doesn't need to be-- Yeah, that's it, that's it, that's it. Make it simple. So I-- Make it simple and make it yours. Yes. What a treat. I feel like-- Honestly, I feel so empowered in a way. I think that's-- I'm so glad that we're having this. And we leaned into-- when we talked about it, it was like we normally have these conversations in a 45 minute period and the fact that we're literally going to have three hours of financial conversation. And this series is so cool because it's allowing us to go to a depth that typically we don't get-- Yeah, we can't marinate too long and some of this stuff. So to close us out, of course, the question I love asking everyone is, what are you grateful for? So I would ask both of you, what you're grateful for, anything, feel it. I'm just grateful for my family. For my kids, I almost left this industry when I had my first child because I wasn't sure if I could be a working mom in this industry. And it was a matter of just finding the right place for me that honored and respected my role as a mom. And I found that place in True Point. And so I just feel that I have the ability to be the best mom I can be. Yeah. And I'm just so grateful for that. Awesome. I'm just grateful for this life. I'm grateful to have a job that I love, friends, and family that I care about. And as chaotic as the world may be, the sun is still shining. I can go for a walk. I'm just grateful to be here. I love that. I love that. I love these episodes. I am so excited that we've done this three-part series on financial wellbeing with you guys at True Point and just having this conversation. And truly, I think the lives that are going to change because we were patient. And you guys really wanted to dive headfirst into it. So thank you so much. Thanks for your time today. Thanks for having this conversation. And thank you all so much for tuning in to another episode of The Power to Pursue Podcast. You're host Rachel DeRosha. And we'll see you when you tune in next week. [MUSIC PLAYING] (upbeat music)