Impulse Buys and Missed Bills: Navigating Finances with ADHD

This episode of Where's My Money is brought to you by EnableMe. If you've got big money goals in 2026, you need the right support to make them happen. Chatting to the team at EnableMe, it's a great place to start. For more info on their financial coaching and strategic advice, head to enable.me. Welcome back to Where's My Money. It seems like a hot topic these days with diagnoses popping up left-right in centre, particularly in adults. I'm talking about ADHD. An estimated somewhere between 2.6% to 5% of New Zealand adults have ADHD, with roughly 200,000 to 280,000 adults potentially affected. Even though adult ADHD medication dispensing increased 10 fold in the last 20 years, only about 0.6% of adults receive treatment. We're not talking about pills today though, given this is a money podcast, I want to get into how ADHD actually shows up in your bank account. Is it impulse spending, miss bills, financial stress, or systems and habits that just don't seem to stick? A lot of that sounds familiar to me. I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago too. I certainly don't have all the answers yet, so of course, I've gone and found an expert. Nathan Muller is an ADHD coach who works with people to better manage how their brains operate day to day, and that can include with money. Welcome to Where's My Money. One man, $1 million of debt, one podcast to find a way out. Nathan, thanks for coming back into The Where's My Money Studio. I say back in because we used to be colleagues. Yes, we did. And you left this place and somehow became an ADHD coach. Take me through this because I haven't seen you in that long. Yeah, it's been a minute. I've got to join Zidott here. Yeah, so background, as you know, is in media for the rock and the sound of channels, and stuff of years. And left here got a job that was my dream job, which was working with an outfit called HardWired, which basically they were a human behavioral science applied to business. So customers and the business, the type of emotional relationship they were having. Yeah, I remember you. Yeah, so instead of transactional banks or power companies and all of that, it's like a bit more like aiming for Patagonia, where there was a real meaning behind what was going on and they believed in what the business was doing. So it was great work, fascinating work. Lasted three months before getting wildly sick, ended up an ED in Wellington, 80 over 40, nilly dying. Happened super fast over a few hours. Oh, totally felt the feeling of, I'm going to die. Like the body lets you know when you're going in that. And lamb bells going, three doctors shouting at each other and managed to stabilize me. It was a virus. I didn't know what and sent me on my way after 36 hours. And in classic undiagnosed ADHD perspective, I tried to get back to work straight away because there was only three months into the work. And two weeks later, tried to get back to work. My central nervous system was still on the trolley or the gurney back in the ED. And you say you say classic ADHD, but probably also classic key we shall be right. Yeah, totally. It's kind of truck on. It'll be okay when the body is going. It's not. Yeah. But you're ignoring it and doing it anyway. And yeah, so after a, yeah, a couple of months, things were getting quite bad where it was up to 90% of the day was anxiety. So you could feel it in here in the chest and in the back of the head, it was just building up and building up and building up. And I just kept pushing through. I just ended up going on anti-exhiding medication and things got worse and worse and worse to the point where I had to step away from work because I couldn't read an email properly. It got to that level like I was running about 30% cognitive capacity like I'd properly fried my brain and I got diagnosed with PTSD from obviously the, the events at emergency department and ADHD, which was a huge surprise to me. So that came out of the blue. And yeah, I had to ultimately start from scratch. So that was a process of really healing and just allowing your brain to slowly come back online and that took what I thought was going to be months and ended up taking years. Wow. So how long did it take to find this pivot to where you are now? It was all part of the journey really to now being a neurodivergent coach is how I got there was ultimately it started as necessity like in classic New Zealand form of serendipity and two degrees of separation. My psychiatrist, who's an incredible psychiatrist, incredibly lucky to get him. Again, fluke, there was a cancellation that got me to see him that saved me 10 to 12 months waiting list. Wow. So if that didn't happen, this would have pushed it out even more. We wouldn't be having this chat. We probably wouldn't be having this chat. That's crazy. So he was incredible when he connected me with a coach Alex Campbell that was had just moved with his family's British, but he's got a QB wife had just moved with his kid to New Zealand in January and I met my psychiatrist and what was it March, April, sorry April. And he said, you need to talk to him and then he started coaching me a few months later. And that was as well as getting therapy support as well. That was to support with PTSD. That was a massive piece of the puzzle that I wish I had had like decades before because it came from a perspective of not like, here's some hacks and go and figure out this is how you hack your way around it. It was genuinely going to at a nuanced level understanding how your wiring worked or my wiring that situation, exactly in all these different situations and then learning how to design life to actually support myself and what I actually needed not trying to be neurotypical but actually being what I needed to be for my brain. And it sounds like that was quite helpful not just looking forward, but actually having a peer back into why you are you putting those missing puzzle pieces on the board and go, yeah. And that comes with a lot, as you know, being diagnosed yourself that comes with a lot of grief because you look back and go, well, this would have been useful. 20 years ago. All the way through I school. All the way through, yeah. Yeah, through everything. So there's a lot of challenge that comes with that but that knowledge and understanding and really being able to look under the hood and then being able to have a language for it, then being able to recognize things and design life in a way that suits you. That experience for me going through that was the first time that I ever experienced genuine self-trust in my life. And what's interesting is that is what, that is the type of conversation that I have with every client after the first succession. They talk of hope for the first time and they talk of that genuine self-trust for the first time in their lives because it was always an external, I know I'm good at this because external people tell me that I'm good at this. And you didn't, you constantly seek it from other people. Totally. That's why we've got a building for it. I'm just a virgin people. There's a lot of podcast episodes that could come from this. Okay, so if we're focusing on ADHD, I was diagnosed with ADHD and I kind of, this is going to be the easiest to understand for me given I'm in this world. What is that in practical terms? Not, you know, not too clinical but you can get a bit clinical. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. I think there's been a massive boom in diagnoses in New Zealand, particularly in adults. What is it? How do we explain it? Yeah, sure. Okay. So there's two parts. Go. Go. So there's sort of two, yeah, there's two parts of like the neurological aspect of it of the experience for ADHD is one of the core elements is being wide for interest, not important. So an easy way to sort of describe that is the old power bill that you should have paid in you haven't got around to it and it waits and waits and waits until eventually potentially you get a fine or whatever it is. Yeah, well three to a fine. And then enough anxiety picks up and then you actually do it. Now what's happening there is negative interest because we think of interest as in, oh, it's positive, but there's also quite a lot of negative interest. ADHD brain is quite responsive to negative interest. So that's negative urgency leaving things to the last minute, those kind of elements. So that's what creates enough dopamine if you like, which is not a, it's been referred to as almost like a plezochemical or stuff in the past. What's required in the brain to be able to take action. And if you are in that situation of being wide for interest, you require that kind of spike. So that can be on the positive sense as well. So through novelty or even something that's a challenge, connection, all sorts of things can find your way in. But that's why it's like, well, you should do this, it's important, but it's like, it's boring. So that bit to take action, there's just not enough in the tank, so to speak, for the brain. And from a neurological perspective, they believe it's roughly around the same amount of dopamine that's in our brains versus a neurotypical. It's the distribution capacity of the brain is quite poor. So actually, you almost needs that extra spike of interest to get a distribution going. It's who be able to take action. So for other people that go, it's important, I'll just do it. I need to clean those dishes. I'm just going to do it. It's a task on the list that needs to be done. To give it almost like a sensory explanation of what it can be like from an ADHD. perspective is it can actually be a physical feeling in your face or my chest. I've had it there as well of that tension that you're pushing against to push yourself to do that simple task that feels hukulean to do. So there's something pushing back at you, it feels like you're not to do it. Yeah, it's almost that tension and that's what I've had and people have various workarounds like yourself. I know that you're fairly organized human and quite a driven human. So there will be elements there that are pushing to create to activate all the time. And there's layers to that that we could probably do. Yeah, because it'll be your interest of radio. It's all of those kind of things, but if you put into something that's not interesting to you, this could be like pushing a boulder up a hill, you know. And we've spoken heaps with coaches from enable me who say that the like inaction is one of the worst things you can do and it actually costs you doing nothing will cost you. And when in terms of your personal finances over time. So you can see how someone with a DHD, if they're not tackling their finances appropriately and at the same sort of trunks of time regularly, you are going to lose momentum and it's going to start costing you and there's no balls. And then there's shame and then you know, I'm not doing this properly. You've got that and then you've got all the other aspects of your life that that can have an impact on as well. And that is a lot of cognitive load on a human being, right? And I think that's the part of it of if you're trying to navigate a neurotypical world and the admin doc that you have to fill out to apply for something as five pages in a nightmare, that's super challenging. And sometimes you're going to need help, sometimes you're going to need to get a find ways of figuring it out. But often that inaction and stalling will wait until the night before you had to get that thing in and then it will activate and do it. And there's a lot of cost work and university projects. Totally. But there's so much cost, right? And the human brain on that because there's that build up of internal ID to be doing that. I'm not doing that. Why am I not doing that? And that conversation's happening for days leading up and then you eventually get enough stress to do it. That's not like you've forgotten. And then you're exhausted after it. Yeah. So that moves me to the next sort of angle. It's like we're focused on some of the negative stuff, the hard stuff. And we've identified how that can link into personal finances. What about the fun stuff? The impulse buy? The online shopping. I'm going to get that because oh my god, that's a bright color. That's on special. I'm going to buy that. The countdown clock of this is only available for ex amount of minutes. Oh my god. I bought a toothbrush. I bought a bright green electric toothbrush because it was $10 and it wasn't going to be $10 for much longer. So that's currently in my bathroom. Yeah. That's a good toothbrush. But yeah, that's absolutely. It's such a crucial part of it, right? It makes up the impulse buy is without a doubt driven towards this type of wiring to a certain degree. And again, this doesn't just happen to neurodivergent or anything. It happens to your autistic, like, of course, we're human and you know that more than anyone. Totally, totally. The thing is into behavioral marketing. Yeah, everyone gets it. But the thing is that the science behind it is that the temporal frontal, the processing essentially at the front of the brain. The stuff that says no, that's too expensive. Stop that. That kind of the important machine, basically, the ability to go, this is important. This is important. We should be doing that. That's not as strong. And there is some science around that in regards to the brain for through an ADHD perspective. There's a think of the default mode network, which is kind of where you're daydreaming or letting things drift. And then so many. Yeah. When you, if you need to put it. If you need to draw a picture of me with a little note through a note to sum me up, you're heading a lot of good ones. And then if you want to do a task, it switches to doing task mode and actually turns down the environment. For people with ADHD, that's not the case. Default mode, that switch isn't very good. So default mode kind of stays on. So that's where you can get ideas and more ideas and more ideas. And I've been in a room where you've done it and you've got, and then we'll do this and then we'll do this. It's because it's your thinking of something and you're focused on it, but that other part of the brain still running. So these are the wins of it. And that's awesome, but it also has an application to impulse buy, right? And the fact that you have that idea, I've had it where you remind yourself of something that you wanted and you can feel the spike and you go, "Oh, that's right. I wanted that, didn't I?" And it hooks you back in again. It's the pizza oven at the moment. It's my, my hyper focus ultra-want item is the the the gozni pizza oven. Yeah. And so far down the marketing funnel that every time I open my laptop or open my phone, it's serving me. So I don't even need to be in the funnel because I know I want it so bad. Yeah. But the algorithms picked it up and it's doubling down. It's the worst environment for me to be in. Luckily, I can't afford it because I'm terrible at saving money. And this is where it gets interesting is that from the impulse buy, a classic example is when I talked about that cognitive load of, you know, going to work, there's the masking, trying to, you know, navigate a neurodivergent mind and neurotypical world and you come home and you're exhausted and you can't be asked cooking. That's Uber Eats. Yeah. Then you sit Uber Eats watching TV and most of the content that's created these days is always slightly slow enough so you can be on your phone and it's wiping at the same time. Yeah. And then you see something that's on special. I won't focus on my screen at work. However, I will focus on my TV, my laptop, my phone and my watch. All at once at home. And that's me relaxing. Yeah. But it's just more stimulus and it's what it gets you into a space of is that it's the end of the day. And this is when the executive function comes in. The impact of tiredness and stress and other stresses within the, you know, the human experience can have a real impact in the executive function of neurodivergent brains. I think that would be another thing to really point out between a neurotypical experience versus neurodivergent is that these emotional spikes or response to the stimulus can be way more intense. And this is where at the end of the day, you've done a day of masking. You're at home relaxing with your multiple screens and your cognitive ability now to go, don't buy that. Come on. It's now turned down to like it's shot. Yeah. Right. And that's where it's actually understanding that you're wired that way and observing it to go, okay, well, I need to design this in a way that doesn't have 20 screens. Hey, you should buy something because I don't have the cognitive capacity at the end of the day to make that type of decision. I'll make the call on the morning. There's so many layers to this. You see what I'm saying? Like that's, and this is when you're starting to understand like when we're talking about navigating it, there's no five hacks for this that what it is is actually starting to understand that yeah, I've had a big day. My cognitive capacity is going to be lower. My ability to monitor action will be lower. My ability to want to regulate my emotion is going to be lower. So I'm going to get the spike of, oh, I want that and not actually regulate to go. Do I need this? And this is just thinking about a person in their own bubble, they'd alone adding the complexity of family members, your partner, 100% kids who have just regulated emotions just because they're five, you know, like that's a lot to of load to carry before you then sit down and open your laptop and go, right, budget for the month. You know, like there's no way that a neurodivergent might can handle this all the time. Totally. So you can understand right, if it's important, what it just could just drop off, right? Yeah. So finding the budget or saving money for something, it has to have the connection. It has to, because we're wired for interest. So connection lives there, meaning lives there. You know, challenge can live there. If you want to game out fire, whatever it is, what does your ideal retirement look like? Picture it and enable me can help you achieve it. From financial coaching to strategic advice, they've got you covered. Paydown debt, grow your wealth and retire well. Head to enable.me to get started. Let's get practical and I know you've got to, you've got to find these tools that are going to work for you and find your own little hacks that are going to appeal to your neurodiversity or wherever you are and on that spectrum if we want to use that word. But are there some real basics that you can encourage people to start considering outside of a spreadsheet or, you know, a picture on a wall of the holiday that they want to go on? Is there something that kind of can work for everyone to stop kicking the can down the road in terms of this? Yeah, I think it starts with that insight and awareness, right? It's starting to get some certainty around what am I like at the end of the day? Am I like plucking up stuff on after pay, which is again another great not now, another great now, not now sort of present moment, abstract kind of thing of, I pay that again in two weeks. That's some abstract time in the future. I'm glad what even my brain is, I know that that's just bad and I'm touched. I've done that. I do love the little treaty reward of an ear point. And I still can't get rid of that credit card. Yeah, yeah. So it's all of that stuff where it's going like that discussion that we had about, you know, you're totally fatigued at the end of the day. You end up having Uber Eats because you're too exhausted. Even though the food is, if their fridge is full of food, the country's totally just all there. Yeah, just too exhausted to do it. And then on top of that, you've got what I've screened open trying to watch something. And the cognitive load for that from the science around that of running multiple screens is just so hard on the executive function full stop. neurodivision or not. So we're the more exposed to, say, online, like the attention economy, like social media or anything else, just hammers us so much harder and is so much more addicted to it for us. So it's fatiguing everything more where it's harder and harder to make those stock decisions or those important decisions of no, I don't need that. So understanding that and starting to notice, okay, what am I like? This is no shame, no beat up, right? And if you do an impulse buy, don't beat yourself up. There's gold to be mined there, right? So you could actually look around it and go, what was it like the leading up to this? Did I sleep? Have I been stressed? Yeah. What other things that could have been impacting my emotional regulation or ability to regulate action or, you know, what are these things that have potentially have had some impact? And again, this doesn't need to be a neurodivision thing. No, this is a standard human-like thing of watching like what conditions let me to make that impulse purchase or make that poor financial decision or decide not to save that money this week. Whatever it happens to be. Yeah, just start to collect that up and that's data that you can start getting some certainty on because then it's like, okay, so I know that I don't buy anything in the evening on a Thursday because that's going to be a nightmare. I'm going to do it on a Sunday or a Saturday morning when I'm actually had a full sleep in. Yeah, I'm going to do it after zero beers because I know, yeah, because I know that's what it, that's what I'm like. And it's like, this is what the experimentation part of it is is actually understanding how you respond in different situations and actually even right down to the first coming to mind if we're having drinks with mates or whatever. And it's like the next round and the next round. And actually going, hey, hey guys, sorry, but I'm locked in for this and actually front footing it rather than going, yeah, you've already had two drinks now to do the next round isn't going to be hard work. You're you're already, you know, it's going to be harder to say no because literally the alcohol is having an impact on trying to load that's going to help you make that decision. So the social pressure is there. Totally. So it's actually acknowledging that it's not saying like, oh my god, I'm never going to do that again. It's more going, just notice what happened and what might help you next time. So you've got some certainty. So you know, I'm not going to get sucked into buying something that's got 30 seconds, sorry, 30 minute special available now for a green toothbrush. Sure, it's amazing. But it's like, good to get all of that instead of that actually starting to learn from that experience and go, I understand what's happening here. So it's that it's that would be the starting point that I would say. It's like giving yourself, if an impulse happens, experiment what a pause could look like as in, you know, it's not going to run away, even if it says they're going to run away, they'll still have this special because they want to sell you something. So just give it to me. There'll be another toothbrush. So give that space, like give yourself some space and see what happens. Does your brain calm down and go actually no, I don't want to do that. So that could be approach. You see what I mean? It's like, it's super small and simple. I'm not talking about like you design, you know, a new spreadsheet or unit to design this or you design that. There's heaps of those templates that I try to sell you online. I can hyperfocus my way into a spreadsheet if you want me to. Yeah. It was eight me 10 weeks and I won't finish it. Yeah. But I'll do it. But it's finding that meaning, yeah, finding that meaning that's going to connect you for a long term goal. And also just start at the beginning, watch your behavior. Yeah. Because part of I know with enable me, I went through the experience myself. They do that classic thing of like looking through your behavior and realizing that you're just throwing money away. Yeah. Willie Nilly. The first. Yeah. It's quite confronting. But it's that first thing of going, hey, this is what's actually happening. Yeah. And you can do that yourself. And there's no judgment or shame in it over simply going, you had an impasse pulsed by what actually was happening. Yeah, you're not in trouble. You're not in trouble with yourself. But what is actually happening? Yeah. And I think this is when partnerships and families and, you know, marriages and all sorts of things of like the impact can be pretty intense because it can be overwhelming money. It can be like, I know couples wear the one will be like, no, I don't have anything to do with it. The partner does everything. And that can create a tense dynamic. Right. If one's the police and then one is the one that doesn't pulse buys and all sorts of tension can happen. So the part of creating this awareness and certainty is to start in that understanding of the nuance of how you behave in different situations and having that as an open communication can start to give insight for the partner as well to actually go, oh, right. It is a neurological thing. Yeah. It's like, yes, it is. Yeah. So it is actually understanding that, you know, ah, let's not. And then it's the both. Like, let's not, let's not shop or look at stuff online at the event. Let's not do that. And it's that support mechanism starts to come in. And I think it's having that openness of the people that you care about the most. It's something that you're not just hiding yourself trying to figure out. And then everything's going to be okay. It's actually actually being open about it and vulnerable to go, hey, I'm, it's something that I personally worked my ass off on in the last three years of being more open and vulnerable about that type of stuff of going, yeah, it's a neurological thing. Yeah, working through it, getting better. We're all different. We're all different. You're over here. I'm over here. It's all good. It's all good. And it's like allowing that space where people can start to understand as well and get some context. I'd say it would be important. How important do you think diagnosis is? Do you need that clear answer or is it more of an important step to first do what you've just mentioned in terms of just sort of picking up on what am I like? Why am I, why did I do this? Do you need to build up a case to then take yourself to get diagnosed or do you think? Yeah, there's there's many different approaches. Again, I don't diagnose anyone that I've said I have worked with people who haven't been diagnosed but have done a test and they've got the, you know, like I did, which was like the 27 out of 30 or something. You should really go on. You need to be immediately. All in red. It's like, oh, okay. So I've had all of that. But it's, the thing is, when I'm ever asked this question, I think knowledge is really important. And if a diagnosis can support with knowledge, it can support with a network of support of being able to potentially get medication if that is going to be useful for you. Do it because I think it's, I know there's an extraordinary waiting lists and there's a lot of things the process of going through with potential practitioner GP care around this and the costs and everything. The costs are outrageous. Like some of them have been like eye watering some of the things I've heard of what people have paid and personally, I think that needs to be regulated. That's a personal, personal view because it's important that people get the support that they need. So be, if you want to go down that track, absolutely do that. But there is still much to be gained while you're doing it. As you said, to be able to start that process of understanding and noticing and starting to build that awareness. And if coaching support feels like a fit, go for it or find your way that that helps. But it is extremely important to be able to find whatever it is to work towards, I would suggest working towards finding the right space that allows you to be able to discover some of this stuff and a safe psychological, safe environment where you can actually start to connect the dots a wee bit and start to support yourself. And yeah, that would be my thing. It's such a challenge I know to get diagnosed. But being able to get more knowledge and understanding that helps you as an individual so you can actually support people around you and be who you want to be, it's like, definitely do it. And I suppose having the, just being realistic with the fact that there is going to be no silver bullet and it is going to take a little bit of time. That's the challenge because I think that's the, I've had it with experience with clients and I've seen it with friends. I was incredibly lucky with my psychiatrist. He said, yeah, he described it as kind of evolved the description really of medication is something akin to putting like a bigger engine in the same car, you know, it will give you a bit more horsepower. And you may be able to concentrate for longer, but the risk of burnout is still there unless you know how to structure things properly. Yeah. And he had had an experience where a lot of his clients would come back after three months saying the meds don't work and I'm in burnout again because they weren't giving like he'd suggested as he did to me to take space in the weekend just to see what your brain's up to, those kind of things where you can monitor and see how it goes. Rather than stick to the status quo and just pump meds into you. Totally. Assume that's just going to fix everything. That's the issue. And I think. Fix. I've had it with a client. He doesn't mind me sharing this again. I got the permission for it, but where he got he got diagnosed at school and then had, I don't remember, we spoke and I think it was our first session just to discover a call just to sort of talk about what I do. And his response blew me away. It was like I thought it was me and he had been diagnosed. psychiatrist, everything on medication for several years and still thought what I was bringing up around, wired for interest, now not now, you know, the fact that our executive function could have impacted more dramatically by certain stresses. All of these things just thought it was a hem problem and that was heartbreaking because it's so important that step is covered and that knowledge is known. So yeah, it's part of it's part of the process but it's the process that can help get you to knowledge that you can understand yourself and then self-lead what you want to, how you want to design it, how your life that, you know, design your life to suit yourself, you know. Man, yeah, a lot. There's a lot to touch on. Well thank you. I know that we've just touched the surface when it comes to all of these little branches of neurodiversity and like I said, I've honed in on ADHD a little bit but if people do want to find resources in terms of, you know, online tests or is this you or a bit of support, where can they go? Is there a good, yeah, so like say for ADHD would definitely be ADHD New Zealand would be the place to go. So they've got tests and they've got information and community and ways to help. So there's definitely plenty of resource there. So there's autism New Zealand as well. It's quite often they go hand in hand, right? Yeah, the co-occurrence. Yeah, I have it myself. A co-occurrence of autism and ADHD. So it definitely helps all of that. So definitely ADHD New Zealand autism. So there's tends to be, I think there is New Zealand Institutes for dyslexia and dyspraxia and everything else. I think there is something all there. But definitely, you know, this has been a focus on ADHD. So ADHD New Zealand would be your first port of court. But yeah, there are government agency based or at least charitable organisations like ADHD New Zealand that aren't government funded. They do everything on their own. It's incredible work what they do and still plenty of volunteers there supporting the very wide community that's ever growing. So great. Huge thanks to Nathan Mullah, ADHD coach. There are heaps of great resources available if you think you might be in this elite group of super-minded ADHDers. And I'll track some of those in the show notes for you. ADHD and money is one of those things that doesn't get talked about enough. But you can see how quickly it adds up. So if you've been beating yourself up or getting cranky with your partner for being bad with money, it might not just be as simple as being bad with money. If this episode had a bit close to home, see it to someone who might need it. Or if it's you, don't be afraid to dig a little deeper like I did a few years ago. It doesn't need to be all about pills. It can be all about some new skills. You go look into that and I'll keep asking the question, where's my money? The step-in sort of where's my money was made possible thanks to our friends at Enable Me. Morgan John, your mind? Stressless with a smart financial strategy. Take the first step by heading to Enable.me today. [MUSIC]