Imposter syndrome has like been a theme throughout my entire life. Even I've written so many books and I would say to my husband, yeah, but I'm not like a real author. He's like, I'm sorry, Debbie. What are you talking about? I'm like, but I'm not writing like it's a literary, you know, so I've just always had that thing. So, you know, I'm a 55 year old woman at this point. It's starting to like peel away, but I'm still having to battle that all the time that I don't really belong here. This is ADHD Aha, a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they have ADHD. My name is Laura Key. I head up our editorial team here at understood.org and as someone who's had my own ADHD aha moment, I'll be your host. ADHD aha moments take many of us by surprise and that can be especially true when you spent a good chunk of your life hacking your ADHD without even knowing it. That was the story with our guest today, Debbie Reiber. Debbie is a parenting activist, author of the book, differently wired, and founder of Tilt Parenting, an amazing resource for families raising neurodivergent kids. Debbie, welcome to the show. How are you today? Thanks, Laura. I'm great. I'm really excited to have this conversation. We have been following your podcast for a long time here at understood. We love your show. We'll put links, of course, in the show notes to everything. Everybody check out all of Debbie's stuff. So Debbie, how did you discover that you have ADHD? I mean, I just feel like this is probably what you hear from so many people, but I was, of course, the last person to know. And I mean, I created Tilt Parenting almost 10 years ago because I have a neurodivergent kiddo, autistic ADHD and pretty massive ADHD. And I was fascinated by it. I never once assumed that I had it because I'm so organized. And what I now know is I've hacked my executive functions to death. But literally it was like a couple of years ago. And I must have been talking with my therapist and something about my childhood. And I can't meditate and I can't stop. And she's always telling me stop moving. And I'm like, but that's how I do everything. And I can't stop. It's so uncomfortable. And I just started, and I'm interviewing people with ADHD all the time. And I'm just like, what is it so fascinating? So then, yeah, one day I was like, I'm going to do one of those online screeners and just kind of see. So of course, I researched all the best online screeners for ADHD. And I did like five of them. And they were all like totally conclusive. Fascinating. But I will say, I also felt like I don't want to make a big deal out of this. I had imposter syndrome about my ADHD. And so what do you mean by that? I mean, imposter syndrome has like been a theme throughout my entire life. But I think because of creating tilt and building a brand as being this kind of research information Wrangler and share for parents in my community and talking about neural divergence from this, you know, objective point of view. I was like, oh, now I'm just going to be one of those people is like, oh, me too. And I don't know. I just felt like I don't do I need a formal diagnosis. And I was like, no, I'm good. I don't need that. But I don't know. I just felt really uncomfortable with making it a big part of my work because I was like, you know, I kind of have figured out how to function and make it work for me. And there's no point. So yeah, so I've been a little, I haven't talked about it much. Tell me more about why you didn't feel that a formal diagnosis was necessary. I think because I have since I was like four, like I'm an athlete and I always have been. And I've always found ways to hack myself. And I mean, I've written books on how to be productive, right? So I guess part of me is like, I don't feel that medication would help me because I feel like there are other things that I use instead. And I also, I'm still working with the same therapist and I'm doing so much healing. Like it's been incredible. But that to me is what matters. You know, I don't need anybody to legitimize it. I feel like, yeah, I just was like, what is that really going to get me? I don't need formal support. If I can keep, you know, we're talking about excavating like my little undiagnosed kiddo and healing her, that's really all that matters to me. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The imposter syndrome, do you feel like that? Does it come from not knowing sooner that you had ADHD? Again, it has been a theme always throughout my life. Just that idea that I'm, people thought one thing of me, but if they didn't know how hard I was working behind the scenes or they didn't know that I felt like they're making a huge mistake here. I did not belong in this gifted class or I don't fit into this group or all of those things. So and in this space, right? I have some visibility in the parenting space supporting other parents and I still am like, you know, I don't have a PhD and I'm not, you know, so it's just kind of been with me always. Even I've written so many books for teens, a lot of them. And I would only say about executive function skills, right? For her. Yeah. And I would say to my husband, yeah, but I'm not like a real author. Like, but I'm not writing like it's a literary, you know, so I've just always had that thing. So you know, I'm a 55 year old woman at this point. It's starting to like peel away, but you'll get there. You sure hope so. I mean, you're so accomplished and I know you don't need me to say that to you. Yeah. What is it about? Go ahead. I don't want to cut you off. It just makes me feel a real uncomfortable because I always feel like I want to say yes, but or find reasons. Yeah. Yeah. Can we take a journey back into time? What were I almost called you little Debbie. I'm sorry, you probably would hate that. I want a little Debbie. Yeah. Yum. What was Debbie like as a kid? It's so funny because this is literally like I've been doing this internal family systems work with my therapist, which has been fascinating. Actually, just last week, I pulled out a picture of me on the first day of kindergarten. I was four and I was just so cute in a messy way, like a scruffy tomboyish messy way. And my homework was to look at that girl and remember her experience and what I remember and feel so strongly was that I wanted to do everything. My neighbor went to gymnastics, I'm going to do gymnastics and I love to dance and I wanted to do like I just wanted to do everything and I had a lot of energy. You know, of course, motor mouth was one of my nicknames. I was loud apparently because the something that was said to me a lot by my dad was Debbie were all in the same county and be like, oh, I didn't even know I was talking loudly. But I was that kid who would come to the dinner table and be like, I'm going to save the giant panda bear from extinction. I had big dreams. They changed frequently. And in my family, I was just like, I mean, my sister did tell me that I was adopted and didn't even belong. So I was, that was a message like, well, you're not really a part of this family. And that's how I felt. Like I felt confused because my excitement and big ideas were met with humor, but humoring me like, okay, let's get this one in writing. Let's see what Debbie's going to want to be for a career next week. Like there was a lot of that. Like I was just this kind of weird kid that everyone kind of made fun of. Maybe with love, but I just remember feeling confused. But these are really good ideas. Why are you like crushing my dreams? You know, yeah. And it sounds like you were really smart too, you know, to be so intelligent and to have all these big ideas. But the way that they come across people don't take them seriously, that's got to be such a frustrating existence. Yeah. It always felt like I was waiting for someone to just acknowledge what I brought to the table or the ideas that I had or to support them, to be excited about them to join me in that. And I can have that for probably until middle school. And I met, you know, my best friend from my school years, Vicki. And she was similarly, you know, had really big ideas and was kind of an unconventional thinker. Like, and that was the first time I felt like if somebody else has big dreams here too. And that was really helpful for me. How did you do in school? Middle school and high school. I was a solid C student. My GP and high school might have been like a 1.8 or something like I got into university. I think because of my running, I was in track and field. So thank goodness for that. Good for you. Which events did you do? I was a hurdle. I was so obsessed with the hurdles. Debbie, I mean, a love of hurdles. There's a heavy handed metaphor I could use here. But I won't. That's so true. That's very funny. I got in trouble a lot, but also I was like, I was voted class clown in my senior poll. Class clown, best excuse maker and most sarcastic. So check, check, check. I love that. I do. And it's such an ADHD thing too. I'm so proud of it though. But I was that person, but I also was liked. I did the class announcement. And so like, I was involved in everything. That's how I got through school. I hated like the academic stuff, but the social stuff and all the things I could do. And also it kept me away from home, which I found very boring and uninteresting. So I kind of did all the things I could do at school and I was so ready to.
leaf when it was over. So you hacked your life for a good chunk of your life. At some point you must have hit a wall where maybe you obviously didn't know at that time that you had ADHD or it didn't cross your mind, but moments that were really hard and really hard to hack. Yeah, I mean, I struggled in university like the first couple of years because I was very social and I thought it was just one big social experiment and I just didn't really get it and I was young. I started college at 17 and I was super immature and I had no skills because I got by without really having to do anything in high school. And so, you know, I'll just say that something that shifted for me was I had an internship at NBC News the summer after my junior year and I think I got like a little taste of oh, oh, this is what I want to do. This is what really matters here. I want to have a job and I want to be Holly Hunter in broadcast news. Yes, I think I realized, wow, I've really kind of screwed myself because now I wanted something and I had this like terrible GPA and maybe I made some choices that we're not going to make what I wanted attainable. So when I came back to school, I was kind of a different person. I became more serious and I started to try to be a good student. Like, what does that look like? What is it actually like to read the books? And I'm like, I'm such a slow reader. It's really hard for me. So because you get distracted or. Yeah, like, I don't know what this is if it's a thing, but I have to read so slowly and sometimes where you read a sentence once or twice so I can understand the meaning of it. So common for people with ADHD. If you're reading like philosophy or some kind of heavy like media ethics text, I took that class. Yeah, it's brutal. So I had to teach myself how to learn how to prep for something, which was super time consuming. But I started realizing I like, oh, okay, I can actually do well. Like, I started getting really good grades. So that's not me crashing, but that was me realizing I could kind of up level here. I think the struggle for me always until I became kind of my own boss was I was always trying to do everything. So I would have a job that I maybe really loved, but I also had like three side projects and I couldn't understand like, who are these people who go to work and then come home and watch like friends and side-feld and then like just chill and go to sleep. It was frustrating to me and I kept thinking if I get the right job, then I'll be satisfied. And I won't have to have three other projects going on at the same time. And then I can have more balance, which I thought was what I needed. That was just a continual frustration for so many years was feeling like, I'll never be satisfied. And it was exhausting. And I couldn't not do those things. So I just didn't know what was wrong with me. And then I was like, oh, I'm just multi-passionate. Like, I kept trying to find ways to define or describe who I was. But I didn't know any other entrepreneurs. It was such a different experience than the people I hung out with. And so I just once again always felt like, what's wrong with me? You still feel that way? Do you still feel insatiable? I mean, I do, but I can do everything I want to do now. I love that. Yeah. It's like, oh, people email me. They're like, I love your website. Can you give me the name of your web designer? I'm like, well, that would be me and I don't have any room for clients. Or, you know, like, I get to do everything I want to do. And so it really satisfies all of that. It's too much. Like, I'm still not in balance. I keep thinking, oh, get there someday. I mean, I thought when my kid went off to university, I was, my life would be spacious. And now I have all the time. And it's, it's even worse. You just filled it right up. But I still believe my husband is helping me now with till which is great. And maybe that's created more work for me because now we can do more together. I thought he had something else. No, but like, my toward vision is that I'm going to reach this point where I have this like schedule. And on Mondays, I do this. And on Tuesdays, I do that. And then I can watch love is blind in the evenings on the couch and know that I it's all taken care of. But can be one of those people who would watch his friends and sign felled at night after their dinner with work. At the same time. Right now, I wouldn't have it any other way. Like, I think I would get bored. Maybe that's just never going to happen. And that's okay. Yes. But, you know, I think about what is next because I'm at that age. Like all of my same age friends are like talking about what is next for you after tilt or like, are you going to retire in five years? And I was like, well, yeah, so I will scale back. But I then I want to I really want to open a bakel shop. But I also want to open like a center for women to like meet and hang out and like have creative workshops. But then I'm also interested in like pursuing maybe going back to writing fiction. Like, I don't know. So I see all that stuff in the distance. And I want all of that too. My comment wasn't about like, you're never going to find the balance. I think I was more like, maybe the balance is annoying that there will never be a balance. Yeah. I say that as if I have that. Yeah, I say that as if I'm at peace with that. I'm not. It's top of mind for me because it's something that I struggle with too. I think the greatest piece I have ever felt in my life was when I decided, no, I'm going to stop pretending like I'm going to write a book one day. Yeah, I can feel the relief just giving yourself permission to let that go. My balance or my peace is just lowering the bar for myself, which I think can get misconstrued. It's not like we want people with ADHD. We don't want to set low expectations for people with ADHD and for kids with ADHD. But it's I think it's about gentleness and be like, you're doing a lot already. Yeah. Yes. And that is not a failing if you don't write a book. And I mean, I always felt like I would go back and get a PhD someday. And it just would keep coming up. And I was just and finally it was about a year ago that I let that go. And it was so free. I want to hear about the process of writing about and coaching people on hacking your life, executive function skills, all of that without knowing that you had ADHD. I want all the tips. I also want to know what was going on with Debbie during that process. So a lot of the books that we're talking about, I wrote for teens and young women. And when I was maybe 27, I got a job working for Nickelodeon. I worked on the show Blues Clues, the original. Oh my gosh. Love. And it was such a great creative environment. And I worked with these women who had their shit together. I learned so much from watching them in terms of how to know that I was like worth asking for what I wanted, how to know that I actually did belong in the room. Still with the pin poster syndrome. But I started to realize that, oh, actually, these people do see me. That's kind of cool. And maybe I don't just have to respond to external situations. I can actually think about what do I want to make it happen. So that was a real wake up call for me. And I started again through a different therapist, but really like thinking, like, oh my god, I can't believe it took me till I was 27 to like start to realize this. I would have made so many different choices as a young person. Because I felt so crappy about myself. I had such low self-esteem and self-worth like all through middle school and high school and college. And it made me sad if I had known this stuff before that I mattered and that I could ask for what I wanted. And that I should be taken seriously. I would have navigated so much differently. And maybe I would have been able to get that job at 60 minutes, which is where I really wanted to work. I never managed to break into TV news. I never became Holly Hunter, spoiler alert. But I think I just felt this sense of responsibility that I had to help other young girls and teens like me skip over that part and realize, you don't have to wait until you're 27, you can do it now. So the first book I wrote for teens was called in their shoes. And it was where I interviewed 50 women about their careers and how I mean, that goes back to becoming to the dinner table with a different idea each week because of whatever movie or TV show I saw, right? But I wanted young girls to have a really positive role model for what is this career and tale? What does it look like? How do you get there? All of those things. And then the third book that I really was the book is called Doable, a girl's guide to accomplishing just about anything. That is where I really had to break down all the things that I knew about how to get stuff done. And figuring out what do you need to get things done? Are you someone who likes rewards? Are you someone who likes to procrastinate and do things at the last minute? Like really identifying your, I guess it's called your cognitive style, but how you do things so that you can basically trick yourself into doing the things. I had read a book called Switch by Chip and Dan Heath and the subtitle is How to Change Things When Change is Hard. That book really influenced me a lot and I incorporated some ideas like shaping the path, which I used to do with my now 21 year old. You know, we have something to do in the morning. Let's lay out your clothes on the floor so that it's using
get out of bed, they're right there. You shape a path for what you want to do, right? You leave a trail of like candy bars, right? Yeah. Totally. And I do this still to this day. If I know I want to run later in the day, I will put on my running clothes first thing. I'll just do things to kind of prepare and send my brain the message that this will be happening. One of my chapters is about how to reverse engineer anything that you want to do. So you start with the end goal and then you keep going backwards to what the very first step is and then break each of those steps down into like 10 micro steps so that you're literally just inching forward on it every single day. So those are a couple of the ideas. But I think that's a lot of the logic, Debbie. I mean, you really, you did so much. The one that's sticking up to me the most just because of my own personal experience is I think this was from your girls guide to being able to do it just about anything, the tricking yourself. Yeah, that's such an undiagnosed ADHD thing to do. I had no idea. That was my own hack, not even realizing I was hacking through college. What did that look like? Oh, this paper is due on Monday. No, the papers do on Friday. But I managed to convince myself that it's due on Monday. Oh, that's good. I don't know how I did that. I'm like, yeah. I mean, that's the whole point is whatever works for you works. Like I'm a big reward person. I delay gratification on things big time and I now push through those non-preferred tasks eventually. So when you were writing all of these books, were you already apparent? I was. Well, the, yeah, the very first book that I wrote, I wasn't. I wrote a book for beginning women runners, which I wrote while working a full-time job at Cartoon Network because why not? Because I wanted to share my love of running with other women. I'm so impressed. I feel accomplished if I do two loads of laundry in a day. It's just I can't not do the it. I can't not do it. I can't not do it. Now I can imagine not writing another book because it's so much work and I'm not feeling the pull to do that while doing everything else. But I just couldn't stop. Debbie, what's coming up for you? Tell our listeners where they can find you, what you want them to check out. Like, go for it. Of course, I'm like doing all the kinds of new ideas with Tilt now that I have my husband working for me, working with me. I should say. No, I like that. Show change it. I love it. Keep it. Coming up on the 10-year-round anniversary of Tilt. And so I've gone back out. I know. It's crazy. I can't believe I've been doing a podcast for that many years. It's just nuts. So I'm going back out to the community and trying to get information from parents. What are you dealing with now? Because when I launched Tilt, I launched it as a revolution. Like, that was the language I use. This is a movement because you know what? Our kids are not broken. That was my stake in the ground. We need to use a strength-based lens. And we need to stop using this pathologizing language. And so so many of these ideas that I started Tilt with are now like, yeah, no duh. We know that now. Right? And people are talking about this conversation about neurodivergence in a very different way than when I started Tilt. And so I'm going back out to the community and seeing, okay, even though the conversation has moved, where's the work that needs to happen? Where do parents still need support? And so I'm taking a step back and I'm looking at how can I work within my community. I have a membership community, the definitely wired club, which is six years old now, which I love so much. I know it's like my favorite because I can't hang out with amazing parents who do all this like deep inquiry work. But I want to think about like, how can I apply this new lens to my podcast, to all the things? And I will say, we talked about books. My agent does have a book that she's trying to find a publisher for right now. So I hope to have news about that soon, but it's kind of like taking all of the everything that I've learned over the past 10 years and really distilling it. Because that's what I'm really good at is taking out of information and sharing it in a way that's accessible so people can really use it and apply it. So that's what this book would be about. I love it that I can't wait. Yeah, keep us posted. I feel I need to say that I know you didn't get that job at 60 minutes that you didn't become Holly Hunter. I would venture to say that what you have done and what you are doing is more important than that and more impressive. So I'm just grateful for everything that that you've done. I'm so grateful that you came on the show. You're a hoot. It's so much fun to hang out with you. I've had a really great time today, Debbie. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much for inviting me. I love this conversation. Thanks for listening today. As always, if you want to share your own aha moment, email us at
[email protected] or send a message to our voicemail inbox. You'll find a link in the show notes along with resources and links to anything we mentioned in the episode. This show is brought to you by understood.org. Understood.org is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at understood.org/give. ADHDaha is produced and edited by Jessam and Molly. Say hi, Jessam and hi everyone, and Margie DeSantis. Hey, hey. Video is produced by Calvin Kenney and edited by Alissa Shea. Our theme music was written by Justin D Wright, who also mixes the show. Production support provided by Andrew Rector. Brianna Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. From understood.org, our executive producers are Scott Kosher and Jordan Davidson, and I'm your host, Laura Ke. Thanks so much for listening.
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