IKEA's CEO on why the C-suite still matters in the climate fight

(upbeat music) - Hey everyone, welcome to Two Steps Forward where sustainability meets business reality. We're here at Solutions House at Climate Week, New York City. (audience cheers and applauds) This great audience who came out here very early in the morning. It's, I don't know, I don't know, time it is, in California where I came from a couple days ago, but it's the middle of the night. But, solely, here I am with my wonderful co-host and the emperorio of this Solutions House, Solitaire Townsend. - So, thank you so much, Charlotte. It's wonderful to be here with you. We're sitting in a giant venue, which is Solutions House 2025 in New York City. And we were just talking about the fact that we started off in our own little offices with all the computers and desks pushed to the side. But this is grown and grown and grown, and this year is our biggest year here at Solutions House. All together, we have almost 5,000 people who are going to be passing through these doors. - Wow, that's great. I mean, is it just me or is climate week just becoming bigger and bigger? I mean, I've been running all over New York and I definitely could use one or two more jewels, just as frightening as that may be to just accommodate all the things that I want to go to. And I'm sure another solitaire too would be a great addition 'cause you're hanging out here a lot, right? - I'm hanging out here a lot, but I'm also getting out of house at the opening ceremony yesterday and at the WBCSD dinner. And I met up with Helen Clarkson, who's the Chief Executive, obviously, of the Climate Group, who is the reason why there's a climate week at all. And she was telling me that there'd been sort of some romblings of people going, is it going to be this big this year, et cetera? And of course, she held the face. And now, this is the biggest climate week yet. It's got over a thousand events, which kind of goes in the face of some of the narrative out there at the moment about, this isn't the big thing, there's not as many people interested. It's like, what, staying in New York is not cheap, getting to New York is not cheap. Climate week is not easy. And yet, here we are, more people than ever, here at Climate Week. - Well, I think that's what climate week is already about. It's being together, just bucking ourselves up for this moment. You did a great event on Monday night here with the title of, well, I'll just say screw doom, except it wasn't screwed, it was an F-bomb. Talk a little bit about what that was about and why you created this campaign. - Oh, thank you so much, also. I know we're not allowed to say the F-bomb because this goes out on things like Spotify and Apple and Amazon, so we've started a new campaign which is F-bomb doom. And the reason why we started that campaign is because we have a growing level, not of satisfaction, not of climate denial, but of fatalism. And in fact, some of the surveys, for example, from the Lancet have shown that over half of young people are now fatalistic about climate change. They're not denying, they still care, they just don't think we can do anything about it. And that cherifies me. So we've started a campaign against fatalism, it's against doom, the enemy here is giving up and we're gonna have a lot of fun with it and you can go to thefullfworddum.net and you can vote on what we do next with the campaign because we want this to be a movement within our movement. We wanna know what you think we should do next with this big idea. - Yeah, and it's not just young people. I mean, my cohort, the boomers, are I think similarly numb or just looking the other way when it comes to climate. They know there's this thing and they're concerned about it to an extent. But I don't think they wanna be engaged in any way. Maybe it's they're aging out and they say, well, the kids are kids, the folks behind us will take care of this. But they're equally important in terms of voting, in terms of just sending a direction. And you know, most of us or many of us have money to spend too and so how we direct those funds is critically important. - Absolutely and this is the issue we've got in fact one of the pieces of research that Catherine Hayo, the wonderful climate scientist, shared at the launch last night, was that after extreme weather events, people feel less able to do anything about climate change. This whole thing that this whole movement's had, that if there's just a few very extreme weather events, suddenly everybody will care and do something. The exact opposite is the case. People feel less powerful, less agency, more fatalistic following extreme events. And that's what we've got to capture. And although the FDOOM campaign is very much for young people and very much focused on the under 30s, I think it's no surprise that it was developed by someone who was Gen X. We, I'm Gen X, we're the Slacker generation. We're the generation who invented Doom. It's like we're the generation who gave up before we were 25. And so actually, we're the generation who I think have got the language to know how to turn this around. - So what's gonna happen? I mean, how are you gonna activate, inspire all these, well let's start with the young ones. But what are you actually gonna be doing that's gonna bring them back? And so they're saying, F, yes, we gotta do something here. - Exactly, so at the heart of the idea, is that everyone keeps talking about the fact we must change the sustainability narrative. We've got to flip the script. We've got to change the story. So well, first of all, climate change needs to be a story. If we're actually gonna change the story, we need to bring some mythology. We need to bring some story. We need to bring some heart into what we're doing. So we're actually really thinking about how to, how people can see themselves as a playable character, as a main character, as part of the plot, and key to the messaging is that we are not extras in the apocalypse. We actually get to be players of this game. And so on the website, you can go on to fdum.net and you can vote for what you want us to do next. We can set up a climate school to help people understand the answers. We can flood your feed with answer memes and information. We can make a whole lot of FDUM merch, which seems to be at the moment what most people want. They want the FDUM cap and the FDUM water bottle, which is here in solutions house if you want to come and pick them up. And we're asking people, we can raise a big fund for solutions. We're asking the people who are going to be part of this movement what we want to do with that. I'm done with kind of top down campaigning. I'm done with deciding what people should do. I'm going to create the space and the people can come in and tell us what they want us to do with the space. Yeah, well that's a good segue top down into a topic that I want to talk about, which is in the run up to our guest in a few minutes. Is the role of the CEO in companies in all this? What is the role? I would take the position that they are critical to all this. I'm not sure, where are you on this? So for years and years, my job, almost 30 years, has been trying to engage CEOs in sustainability. And I think as far as yours, you've had so many people up on that stage at Greenbiz, so many CEOs. It's a crucial job. And we're about to have a CEO who actually is the B team, which is a collective of CEOs. But I've got a little secret, which is, I think it's still possible to do this, even if the CEO isn't on board. CEOs tend to have, I think the statistic was, they tend to be in post for less than three years in each business that they're in. They turn in and they turn out. They're extremely influenced by whatever the political fashion of the era is. Their whole job is basically to front into investors and essentially sort of convince the ship is going. All of which is incredibly important. But none of it is actually doing sustainability. Yeah. And CEOs need to set the tone from the top and have considerable influence on that. And I'll give you an example. 20 years ago, almost to the day, on October 23rd, 2005, Lee Scott, who was then the CEO of Walmart, gave a speech to his team where he set the tone and wanted to, it's called the 21st century leadership company. And he talked about, set this course in Walmart down this path of considerable significant measurements and commitments around zero waste and renewable products and renewable powered. And it's hard to remember this. But back then, Walmart was sort of a do nothing in sustainability, kind of a pariah. One of those, almost like one of the oil companies. And that totally transformed the company. Now, I will also point out that Walmart has been doing a great job of meeting those commitments. They've also grown considerably in revenue. And so we can talk about that later. But the fact that the CEO and now Doug McMillan, who succeeded him, is carrying that ball. And you see that. We've seen that Mary Barra at GM. And when Paul Holman was at Unilever, CEOs can play a major role. The fact that they, I guess, choose not to-- I think it's a lot to do with competing agendas, has a lot to do with just the-- particularly this moment in the United States around, let's keep our head down. But I think there still is-- it's a huge thing that they can bring finance in, they bring partnership in, but they send in a really important signal. On the other hand, back in the day, when this sustainable business thing was just getting going, one of the rules, one of the tips, one of the top 10 things you would see is get CEO buy-in. That was just sort of number one with a bullet. Get CEO buy-in. And I would talk to CEOs back then, and they said, I'm in. My problem is below me, is the rank and file, the people down and sort of near the bottom of the ladder, if you will, are in. But it's that big, thick wand of impenetrable wand called middle management that's the problem. So CEOs, I'm arguing against myself here, but they're critically important, but they can only do so much. They can only do so much. And also, oh, yes, see, if you've got an engaged CEO, the sun is shining, the money is flowing, you've got a big team, and you can make the commitments. But what if you don't have an engaged CEO? A lot of the people who are listening to this podcast right now might not have a CEO who's giving us the terms that we want. They might not have a CEO who is opening the budget. They might not have a CEO who is prioritizing sustainability anymore. Does that mean it's game over? Does that mean you can't do anything? Does that mean you should just give up? I feel that was absolutely having a CEO who's on board is going to make everything so much better. You can still do it without. The work that you do can still be impactful. The change that you can make inside of business is still change, even if you don't have the CEO backing. Your job in that case is to go and convince that middle management, because the CEOs are right. That's where all the power is. So if your CEO is on board, then go and engage your peers and your community at middle management. And you might find there's a lot more power sitting there than you think. Absolutely. The bottom up empowerment is really important. But what's also critical is the CEOs externally with their peers, making statements, talking about this openly on the public stage and government. And so there's a huge role to play. But you know what? Our guest is here. And very excited to welcome him to this stage. Please join us in welcoming the CEO of IKEA. Yes, we're rodent. Hello, I guess. [APPLAUSE] How are you? How are you? It's good to see you. How are you? Thank you. Come on, Jasper. In the hot seat. In the middle, Jasper. OK. So this is our small, but mighty group that have turned up at a particular ceremony, but they know they need to be loud. Jasper, thank you so much for coming in this morning. How are you doing? How's your climate week going? Wow. I think it's my number seven in climate week. And for me, it's by far the most important. So on one hand, you can say we are-- oh, sorry, thank you. So on one hand, it's the strange thing is that things are getting so much worse and so much better at the same time. So I think that's what we're combating with here. I'm here mostly to actually do the job of sharing the good news. So we're corporates, and the corporate world is moving. And that's just a wonderful story that I think a lot of people know. Wonderful. So I asked you that question before, even properly introducing you. So I wanted to hear what angle that you had on climate week this week. So many of you on the Jesper, Jesper-- I met Jesper when he very generously agreed to be interviewed for my book, The Solutionists. And I was on holiday in center parks when we interviewed. And I found out some wonderful things about Jesper whilst my family were making a lot of noise outside. So Jesper, this is your 30th year with Inquiry and the Ikea group. Nobody has called. Which is just an extraordinary queer. And in that queer, you've set up parts of Ikea and Inquiry all around the world in China and elsewhere. You have created new programs. We're going to talk about some of those. And you've been CEO now for almost 10 years. So it's actually the past eight years. So almost yes. And in those 30 years of being with this one extraordinary organization, we were just talking about the role of CEOs. You've seen inside a business. In 30 years, you've seen lots of different levels within the business. You weren't always CEO. Joel and I were just talking about, is the CEO the most important role in sustainability? In terms of your influence on sustainability, has the CEO role been the place where you've been able to make the most difference? Or were you able to make a difference in other roles in the organization? I think it's a very good question. I think the answer is yes. And I mean in the world today, we could talk about the voice of customers, about media, about politicians. But I think the solution on how to resolve climate change is an economic and technical transformation. It's not so much a political or ideological or anything else. And we need all leaders to collaborate because we're in a hurry. We need fellow politicians, policymakers, to do much, much more, to speed up the transformation. But the transformation is happening. I almost had with or without them. So I think the CEOs, the commitment and the understanding of both the ethical motivation, the reputational, but definitely the P&L impact climate smart business has on the future. I want to talk a little bit about IT and the amazing work you've done there. Are you a customer? I'm sorry? Are you a customer? Of course. I built a lot of -- I did my -- back in an old house, I did an entire kitchen of cabinets and coverage, and I put them together. It's someone else installed them. So yeah, I'm a fan. It's a great -- I love going through the store and seeing all the amazing things. You've set a number of really ambitious goals, and those are, I think, setting the bar for a lot of other companies. I've also grown a lot. We were just talking about Walmart and the goals that they've said and a meeting on the path to meet. But the revenue has skyrocketed since the last 20 years since Lee Scott gave that iconic speech. How do you reconcile that? And what do you do to make sure that at an absolute, not an intensity level, but an absolute level that IKEA is still really part of the solution? Well, I think, actually, maybe this is the most important topic of them all. A few years ago, there was an assumption and almost like a myth in society, which is very stubborn, and that sustainability would cost and would come at the premium. One is absolutely the opposite. So the reason why, if you look at all the companies at the forefront of the sustainability transformation, they're performing fantastically. You can say there are positive impacts on the revenue top line, if you like. But the big thing of climate smartness is cost reduction. So if I may, you know, IKEA has grown by 24% since Paris Agreement. And that is, let's see, that's reported a bit more than a year ago. New numbers coming in. But the absolute carbon is down by 30.1%, which is radical. Not scope 1, scope 1, 2, scope 1, 2, and 3, end to end. Not relative growth, absolute. So growth is up 24%. Carbon is down 30. And then, in order to understand that and even believe it, you need to look at the scope 3 footprint, where basically, IKEA's footprint is in carbon. The biggest part is raw material, actually. It is today 45%. The second part is actually customers using a product in life at home. So appliances, light bulbs, whatnot, which is 30% at 40% of the carbon. 11% is production. 45% is transport. Less than what people might think. 10, 11% will be customers coming to IKEA or home deliveries. So there you go. You have different facts around it. And now, if you reduce energy in these bars and staples, if you reduce the usage of energy, if you implement renewable energy, you save a lot, of course. In IKEA, we saved actually 97 million Euro, and counting by implementing renewable energy, by implementing smart measures of using raw material, less waste, et cetera, et cetera. We strengthen P&L. What's been the thing that you haven't been able to transform, the hardest piece of this, what are you still hoping that you can, the nut that you haven't yet cracked? I think the hardest one to crack is belief. I think because people, it's difficult for people to understand that climate smartness is actually good for business. This is the question I get all over. You're talking about the belief of customers or employees? Yeah, society and politicians, I was saying. But if you look from a transformative point of view, in our line of business, renewable energy has already happened. We are 4.2 billion Euro invested into renewable energy. So actually, it's become not only a lowering of cost, a support of our climate plan, but also a new revenue stream for us. Mobility is happening, as we speak. We are on the way with home delivery, but also the long whole mobility, so to say, so that's sort of happening. The thing that hasn't really happened yet is circularity. A circularity needs to happen for us to redefine and create sustainable consumption. So that is one of the most important parts. Yeah, you've got a take back program. Is that company wide or is it still just pilots here and there? What are you doing? So the take back is part of that, and it's worldwide. We do it in all markets. When I look at the actions, it's not the most powerful. I think maybe from an inspirational point of view, it's high up. So people like it, and it has an evidence of your commitment. But it's not the most important part. What is the most important part again? IKEA is 45% carbon sits in raw material. When we can plug in secondary material into the question, that's when we get the real strength. And take back is not, say, an infrastructure for that. It's more prolonged in life, really. So let me talk about that prolonging life. Because you asked about whether we were IKEA customers. And I really am. So most of my house is IKEA. Mainly because I'm the kind of person who likes putting models together. So I get to do that with IKEA furniture on a really big scale. Although I'm also one of those people where when you put two people needed to put this together, I try to do it on my own, which just is a really bad idea. When you're standing there with a bookcase, half of you. So about 20 years ago, I bought a belief bookcase. And my dad, who is a workman and a builder, was very upset with me. He's like, it won't last, it won't last. And so girls and their dads, I decided to show him that it would last. I have now moved four times. And I have dismantled my belief bookcase. And I have put it back together every four times. And just recently, my teenage niece, who is 16, has now taken the mini book. It's literally moved on to another generation. One of the questions that I have you is, that's not easy, because bits get lost, and you don't have the right screws, and you're missing pieces. So have you ever considered a program to actually help us repair our IKEA stuff? Help us fix it. Help us keep it going. Honestly, I do have a lot of IKEA alarm keys, but I could do with some more of the screws, or the backings, or maybe I scratch a shelf here or there. So-- and that would keep me coming back. And of course, every time I walk into an IKEA store, I walk out with about, I don't know, five times more than I plan to buy what I'm there. So you're talking about circularity. I'm never going to take that back. I don't have a car. I'm not putting a broken bookcase in the back of the car. But I might repair my bookcase when I move house. Very good. So yeah, the answer is yes. So we actually, when it comes to the perlangation of life, we are quite big into that. So today, if you call on IKEA in any country, you will have free spare parts delivered to you. Oh, I can have free spare parts on this one. It's just to ask what you need, and we send it to you. So we do that. It's mainly as a free spare parts. I think calendar, some really some spare parts delivered. I think it's interesting to hear the story about the Billy Bookcase, because to be honest, a few years ago, we had some issues. We had dismantling and assembling cycles. So our engineers built the products in a more linear thinking. So built it for one time assembly. And then we realized that some of the fitting, some of the materials around boards and so on, wasn't actually engineered for the disassembly and assembly again. So I'm happy to be here about your Billy Bookcase. But back in 2015, '16, '17, we re-engineered all our product lines in order to last four seconds. So today, we actually engage in second hand. Also, we're actually having in two markets. Our own second hand platform up and running right now. So we think it's important. Great. Well, we need to promote that more, because I didn't know that I could get that. So that's fantastic that you can get prepared. You also need, perhaps, that emotional challenge of your dad telling you that it won't last in order to be able to have the motivation to go, I'm going to make it last for 20 years. We've been talking about the role of the CEO this morning. And just the examples you've given there, I'm sure the things which took a great deal of your personal push and commitment and conviction to get off the ground. Let's talk about the wider CEO community, because you're also, of course, chair of the B team. What would you say to some of the CEOs at the moment who have massively dialed down talking about this? I've actually been quite impressed how many are still speaking here at Climate Week. But overall, we don't seem to have that powerful advocacy voice that we had a few years ago. Well, I would actually argue the opposite. And actually, in this case, if I may not be humble, I know I'm right. So I don't think CEOs are bailing out this opposite. More and more are joining the movement and marching on. Many of them are silent for different reasons. But if I give you some data, I think, the largest corporate association is the United Nations Global Compact. It's 23,000 companies globally, all sectors and whatnot. So in the study that is being released this week, 88% of the CEOs say that the business case was sustainability stronger today than five years ago. 88% in the world, so to say, data of CEOs. And listen to this, 97% of CEOs say they stay committed or increased their commitment sustainability. So I mean, you can't wait for 100%. So I think what's actually happening, which is interesting, because we are led to believe it's the opposite, not at all. The corporate sector is marching on, because this is good business. So this is them being committed and doing it, to which 100% can see and agree with. But you did mention they're not talking about it as much. Same group when asked, 50% say they are not comfortable to speak about it. Right. And this is, of course, an issue. So we have been talking this week to say, let's master the carriage here. There are two aspects of it. It's obviously, if you look at certain countries, like where we are today, there is a bit of a silence culture spreading, which is not good, I think. But there are the reasons also. A lot of the CEOs since the years have been hesitating to communicate, because this is very interesting. The well-amant strive to address greenwashing, which is obviously something very bad, has gone over the line to say anything that, as soon as anybody opens their mouth about sustainability, it's default greenwashing. So most CEOs, I know, they say, I don't even want to go there, because there is no credibility when I open my mouth. So we're all the years to do it. And this, I think, is a democratic issue that we need to resolve. I love hearing the overwhelming number of CEOs who are in, who want to see this forward. But it still feels like we're just going to damn slow, that we're just not making the progress. We need to be making, at the scale, scope, and speed that is required of this moment. What do we take? Actually, if I may, I would disagree on that, too. I think what's happened is not that we're too slow. On the contrary, I think we're incredibly fast at the moment. What is the sad part of this is that we started very late. So if you look at it, I think basically this journey should have started 30, 40 years ago. And we could have avoided some of the damage that is happening. So today, even the best case scenario means that three generations ahead of us, we'll see damage and actually see things deteriorate before we get it better, even in the best case scenario. Now, the speed of change is incredibly fast. If I give you an example, let me see. Seven years ago, I was at Davos at World Economic Forum. And we were scouting as I was new into this position where to engage. And we met the climate alliance, the CEO climate alliance. We decided not to engage, because there was no commitment and no plan in that collaboration. And they called me a few weeks later and asked, and when I explained why, they say, if we changed that, would you like to be a co-chair? And it's very hard to say no, of course. So you can say, if you go back to these seven years ago, there was a group of CEOs, no commitment, no plan. And I would even say speaking from many of us, no competence to be honest. Today, this group has grown. It's so to say only 134 multinationals. But when you add the total carbon responsibility, 1, 2, and 3, this group of companies is larger than Japan and EU 27 together. So if it would be a country, it would be the third biggest in the world. So it's huge. And then you can say, what is the good news? Basically, these companies started acting in every some five years ago. Today, when we measured the last three years, the community is massively successful. 20% up in revenue, collectively, and down to 12% in carbon. So in only four or five years, it's down to 12% in carbon. We need to be at minus 50 by 2030. And there is a risk we won't make it to 2030. But give us a few more years, because this transformation has started, and it's basically unstoppable. So you think that we're doing everything we can, as fast as we can, as much as we can? No, it's good. I think the thing that we need to speed up is the collaboration between policy makers and corporates, because some of the things that can catalyze faster changes, improvements of great-- faster permitting process for renewable energy, shifting subsidies from oil and gas to renewables, or at least removing it from oil and gas. These type of policy topics will speed up massively if we get that support. But my point was more when we say, it's slow. I think the result is incredible if you look at the last few years. So I was fascinated. And sorry, I feel like we're playing ping pong with you. Just sitting between us. It's like being a whibble then here. I think you're one side to the other side, the other side to the other side. So really interested in what you said, about 88% of CEOs feel that they're more committed than ever, but that 50% of them don't feel confident talking about this. Quite a lot of the people who are listening into this podcast, obviously, are CEOs of multinational companies. But a few of them might not be CEOs of multinational companies. They might be chief sustainability officers. They might be working within the sustainability team. They might be in another part of the business. As a CEO, how have people inside IKEA supported you to be able to find your voice? Those people who are listening to this podcast, who are working within companies and are not CEOs, how can they help raise the confidence of that CEO? If your CEO is one of those 50% who don't feel confident about speaking about this, what advice could you give to our listeners to help engage their CEOs? Good. Very good. So I think the most important at the moment is if you work to support to see our leadership team in this, go down the financial or the economic avenue. Because that's where we will be the fastest, I think, to route the benefits. And if there are myths around that this would be not supporting the financials, look again. There is a risk that if you do sustainability on top of, it actually becomes expensive. So here it is. It's about transformations. And you know, CEOs and businesses are making transformations in any segment, in AI and whatever. So this is no other. Then I think, actually, it is the simplicity of it. That climate smart is resource smart, is cost smart. Follow that line of thought. And you will find that actually being not only on the right side of humanity for all ethical reasons, is also financially very attractive. So I think sometimes folks who have spent their life working in sustainability, even if it's in a court plot and are deeply passionate about that, might not have the experience to be able to make that financial case. So would you encourage them to go and work with the CFO team? Like would you encourage them to work with the commercial teams? So I think the point is we have since long past, I think, where sustainability belongs to the CFO. That's even dangerous, I would say. So today in IKEA, we look at all leaders that we recruit. Basically, we look at, they need to have whatever they lead. They need to have digital competence, and they need to have sustainability competence. It's no longer an expertise field. So that's, I think, very important. Brilliant. Thank you. Well, really so grateful for you to you for coming by and being part of this. And I know you've got to run off to probably 100 other events, but before you do, you announced in August that after 30 years at IKEA, you're going to be stepping down. I'm not sure if you're going to go fishing or you have other plans. But a question is, from through the lens of sustainability, what do you want your legacy at IKEA to be? I think we, you know, I haven't thought about my legacy so much, but I think the, as I've decided to move on, I am absolutely confident, IKEA, we'll continue to prove. There's no way back and the performance is incredible. Interesting enough, we are right now having teams doing recalculations of our carbon development the last years, as the tools getting better and we're getting better at methodology. And there's a likelihood that we will actually perform better than we thought before. So IKEA is in a good shape. The motivation is there. The plans are there. And to 2030, I'm pretty confident that I can be in the forefront of delivering. So in my own thinking, I hope to be able to contribute to other companies and activities and see if I can have a role to help others to get into this important moment. Well, you've set a high bar at IKEA and so excited that you'll hopefully be spreading that in helping some of your CEO brothers and sisters to achieve similarly high goals. Thank you for all you've done at IKEA. Thank you for being here today. Please join us in thanking Jesper Broden. Thank you so much. Thanks everybody. Thank you. (audience applauds) So thank you to everyone who's been here with us doing this recording this morning. We really appreciate everybody who's listening to this afterwards. Joel, you're gonna have to do our outro 'cause I can never remember the spiel of how we actually help people find two steps forward online. - Well, I've got it written here. So I'll be able to just read it out loud here. Yeah, first of all, thank you all for showing up at this ungodly hour on a Tuesday morning. We really appreciate it. And you've been a great audience. Two steps forward is available wherever you buy podcasts and get them for free, of course. Also, make sure that you're following solely in me on LinkedIn. You'll learn more about where the next episode drops and subscribe to Trellis Briefing from the Trellis Group, my company, which is Monday through every weekday briefing on all that you need to know in sustainable business. And solely has a fabulous column every weekly, I think, on Substack and you should check that out, for sure. That's it for this episode from Solutions House, Climate Week 2025. Thank you for being here and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Yes, thank you. - Thank you so much for doing this. - Appreciate it.