If She Wanted To She Would

- For decades, a shadowy organization called The Lemonati has kept lemon on top and lime in the shadows. Look around, lemon-forward sodas, even lemon-forward songs. We ran the tracks, slowed them down, reversed them, and squeezed out the truth. ♪ All hail the lemon ♪ - That's lemon propaganda right there. But now, 7UP is fighting back with their new lime-lemon soda. Join the 7Uprising, flip the sip. - Fall never arrives all at once. Burst the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season, you create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross. - Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Brooke and Connor. Connor is not here today, but Brooke is, and we have a very, very special guest, a friend of the podcast. If you've been listening, you've heard me mention my friend Lindsey before, my best friend from growing up. And I'm so excited to be here with her today. I'm so excited to be here with her today. Yeah, because that's what you find attractive. I guess right it's just them speaking another language yeah yeah okay so that's your like that's your big one is Spanish yes uh so that's the one that I speak um that I speak like I would say like very very fluently I also did have my a relationship of two uh two and a half years with a Dominican woman who we are the relationship primary language was Spanish yes um then Russian I and you were able to step into more of a stepmother role is that okay to say yeah well no I never acted I she has she had she still has a son um I don't think I ever acted like a stepmother to him I think I just acted kind of like a friend but actually a fun fact for his birthday I got him Japanese lessons because he was like obsessed with like anime and I was like okay but you need to see that Japan is like beyond anime so I got Japanese lessons for him um and then the next year gift yeah then the next year on his birthday he was like Lindsay I was like oh I got you a gift and he was like is it school please tell me it's not school and I was that's a good lesson like yeah yeah that's a yeah I love that and then this this is also so so my my ex never like told him that we were dating but she also never like lied to him uh while we were dating and then afterwards she figured out that he knew because he was like should I say it and I'll say it in Spanish than English and he's like he's like okay yeah like my mom's ex is very smart oh that's sweet yeah really sweet yeah um but that was a more recent relationship that was a really recent yeah yeah but how old were you when you started dating a woman with a child because I remember being jarred I was 25. yeah I mean I guess that's like I guess that's fine yeah it was it was like I met her and I only I thought that it was only ever going to be a hookup so like because otherwise I don't think I would have gone on a date with a woman who was 10 years older than me I had a child but then I really liked her and so yeah I was just like well guess I'm living with her and her child now that's fine to do it's fine to do and it's and I did yep and you did okay Spanish yeah that's that's Spanish cut check the bases um oh there were also like many many like I lived in Chicago for three years in law school and like there are many lovely Spanish-speaking ladies there that I had flings with um so that's another wing of Spanish but um Russian I was an exchange student in Russia when I was 16 and actually uh that was how I realized I was gay uh my first kiss with a woman and first having sex with a woman and then I was like oh my god I'm gonna have a baby and I'm woman was in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia. She does not speak English, nor does anyone she knows. So I think it's fine. I think it's fine to say. I also do want to flag that. Imagine my shock. We're 16. We're sophomores in high school. Our school has no sort of like program or anything like that. And Lindsay is just like, all right, I'm going to head out for about six months to Nizhny Novgorod. Yep. You'll always remember that city. I would say I was like, this was not a good time in my life. Like I was really dependent on you. And so I was like, really sad to see you go. And you also only had access to email. Yeah, that's right. So I couldn't even talk to you. It was before smartphones. So I didn't have a smartphone. And I did not bring a computer because I wanted to be immersed in the experience. So I was just really accessing the internet when I borrowed my host sister's computer to use email. So couldn't really talk to her. And I asked her, I don't remember why I asked you this, but I think I was joking when I was like, do you think we'll still be friends? That was in college. That was in college? No, because I said something else. I said something. I'm conflating two. Coincidence. I think there was another thing and you were like, or I said something about like, don't forget me or something or like something. And you were like, I'll like genuinely earnestly, like I'll try not to like, because you're not capable of lying. Yeah. So that I was spiraling a bit when you were in Disney. I remember when I came back, I remember the first time that I saw you, you were just like, kind of like hysterically laughing, but borderline crying. And I'm like, Brooke, I'm here. And you were like, but you weren't, you weren't, you had, you had left. Um, but you came back. Yep. Can I ask what compelled you to go to Russia as a sophomore for six months with no prior rush, like Russian experience? I didn't have any prior language college at the time I went, because I think I've always been drawn to like the other, like controversy and like the other side. So like, to me, like Russia seemed, and I think a lot of, the languages I've learned, it's like in, in some ways are like the, the bad guys. Like I also learned Persian. I also learned Arabic. I'm not, I don't think they're the bad guys, but they're people who are portrayed in like the U S media and like often misunderstood, misportrayed. Like I'd say like Russian speakers, Persian speakers and Arabic speakers, you could say that. Um, so I think I've always been drawn to like learning more and like seeing things from all perspectives. And that's also why I became a lawyer. Cause I like, seeing things from different perspectives, human rights, lawyer, no less human rights, lawyer, no less. And how's your, do you want to talk a little bit more about that romance and become, and finding out you were gay or do you want to move on? We can move on. It was, it was, I think it was in Russia. Oh, I will. One last thing I'll say is that I did hook up with, um, a Russian police officer, uh, who I met in Russia. This is separate from my host sister. This was on a subsequent visit to Russia. So I met her on which is the Russian. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and we met and I was talking to her. I'm like, so what do you, what do you do for a living? And she's like, I'm a police officer. And I laughed cause I thought she was joking because Russia is like pretty actively like persecutes gay people. And she was like, no, I am, uh, I'll show you my uniform. And then at that point I was like, I will be hooking up with her because for the rest of my life, like I will be able to have this experience of having, having hooked up with a, with a, a police woman of, of the Russian Federation. And I have had to say that on BNC MAP. It's, it's a blast. It's a blessing for everyone. Yep. Um, and would you say like, you're still fluent in Russian? I would say so. I would say definitely I'm more comfortable in Spanish than in Russian. It is a bit rusty, uh, cause I don't practice it that much, but like when I need to use it, I can get back in the groove. Like the, the, in my job, the like woman who covers Russia visited and like we were speaking Russian. It was fun. Yeah. I will say because of you, like I'm able to recognize what languages are around me. Whereas I don't think that would be the case without you. Like I can distinguish Russian from Arabic or Farsi because I've heard you speak them. I can definitely at least do Russian. The Illuminati has spent decades keeping Lemon on top and Lime in the shadows. Their Lemon agenda has infiltrated everything. Even our music. That hit song named after the color of lemons. Not a coincidence. Big Lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years. Think about it. But now Seven Up is fighting back with their new Lime Lemon Soda. Now Lime comes first. Seven Up. Flip the sip. And the summer arrives all at once. First the air, then the light. And slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress. A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Seven Up. Flip the sip. And then the sun comes up and the sun goes down. Seven Up. Flip the sip. Seven Up. Flip the sip. And then the summer arrives all at once. Seven Up. Flip the sip. Seven Up. Flip the sip. Seven Up. Flip the sip. Like, more like, not more like her, but, like, changing some other aspects. I see. Like, for example, in high school, you would wear different unique things to school, I'd say. A few times you were in. I did dress as the teacher I had a crush on for Dress Like a Teacher Day. But, like, she wasn't my teacher and had never been. So it was really weird. Yeah. I'm thinking more of, like, when you would show up in, like, a Tanzanian cloth. Oh, yeah. That was just because of my travels. I know. But I'm saying, like, you weren't necessarily, like, doing, like, high fashion. No, never. And I do want to flag that one of our teachers did pull you aside and offer to give you her daughter's hand-me-downs, right? No, I think what you're thinking of is the cafeteria lady. I was walking through to get a cookie after lunch, and she just was like, you can go. And I was like, no, like, I'll pay for it. That's fine. And she's like, no. No, no, just go. Like, because of the way I was dressed, she was assuming that I was not able to afford some snack. No, I remember. Or maybe she told me to tell you. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. Madame, remember Pajot? Pajot Pavlot. I thought she was like, you can have these clothes. No, I think you're right. You're right, actually. That's ringing a bell. It wasn't ringing a bell until you said which teacher it was. But now it is. So basically, not dressed for the nines. Okay? Yeah, never. But you started. You started shopping at Urban Outfitters when you started being this woman. Yeah, because she was really into that. And you really became, like, into fashion, which was shocking. Yeah. As someone who presented the way you did. Which is over now. Yeah, which is over. So it's interesting to see what you carry with you. True. And then what I don't. But I do usually carry the languages with me. It's stunning how you carry the language with you. After I broke up with. Yeah, after we. Actually, I broke up. Well, after we broke up. I, yeah, I continued learning Farsi. And, in fact, like, most of the learning Farsi was after that. So, yeah. Should we move to. Yeah. Yeah. So then I was learning Mandarin, which is the only language that's never been tied to a woman. So any eligible Mandarin speaking ladies, extra points. 如果你不会说英文, extra points. Because then I'll learn very quickly. Yeah. Do you want to flag, like, you're single? Or do you, are you, it's complicated? It's complicated. It's complicated. I wouldn't. And there is a language involved. And there's a language involved. Which one? Bengali. Of course. Okay. We'll get to Bengali. I have more questions about your current. Number nine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Mandarin. How well do you speak that? Like, you could get around. I would say it's. I would say my. Like, worst ones as of now are Mandarin and Arabic. I would say definitely I have survival. Like, I can definitely get around in the country. I can talk about what I like. I could talk about what I did today. I can ask people how they're doing. I can, like. Like, I would say I can do basics. But I wouldn't be comfortable, like, working in that language. Or, like. Like, I would. Yeah. Definitely I'd say well enough to get around. But not, like. Not comfortably. Got it. Okay. What comes next? Yeah. So. So, no Mandarin. Arabic was then coming. Because then my first serious relationship was with an Arabic-speaking woman. Yes. Though she was also a fluent English speaker. So, I never really learned from her. But it was learned out of love for her. Exactly. And. Yeah. That was. That was. Again, though. Like, we broke up, like, not too long after I started. And I did continue learning despite that. So, we love that. Then. Most recently. I think that's every. I think that's. Then there's. French. Oh, French. Okay. So, I'll say. Then French I've never. Like, I haven't taken. I think I took one year in high school of French. Yeah. And I took six. And you surpassed me, like, fairly immediately. In skill level. But I. It's quite similar to Spanish. And so, I just went to France for a few. Months. And then I was able to learn from that. And I have had French romances. Because both the Persian-American girl and the Arabic-speaking girl that I dated. Also were French speakers. And actually spoke, like, French to me sometimes. So, that. Like, that's how I can say French was also a love language. Do you think, like, you could get around in France? Oh. Without a doubt. I speak French a lot. A lot better than Arabic and Chinese. Ridiculous. Like, French. Because it's so similar to Spanish. I would say French I understand 100%. And, like, my speaking. 100%. You could watch a movie in French and fully understand the film? Yeah. I wouldn't understand every word. But, like, I would absolutely be able to follow it. Like, follow what's happening. Wow. Can you start talking to me in French and I want to see if I understand it? Okay. Okay. Maintenant, j'ai dit. Je parle français. Alors, je suis un peu nerveuse parce que si je dis quelque chose d'incorrect, tout le monde va commenter que je parle pas bon. I understand every word of that. Excellent. You were saying that right now, you're saying that you speak French, but you're getting a little bit nervous because if you make a mistake, someone will say something. Yeah. Exactement. Yeah. So, I could probably get around. I think you speak better than you think you do and you're just, like, you're just nervous. Like, wasn't there a time when you did an exchange in France and you, like, had to speak? There was, but I didn't because, as you know, our French teacher spoke with a very unique accent. Yeah. And she still does. And it bled into all of our accents. And so, everyone was, like, pretty made fun of by the French students for the way that we spoke. And so, I really didn't want to speak. And so, I didn't say a French word until the last day of our French exchange, which was over two weeks in France. But, yeah, I don't, I think, like, you spoke slowly enough for me to understand and usually French is really fast. And, like, des fois, je crois que des fois c'est plus facile pour les gens comprendre quelqu'un qui, like, leur langue maternelle, c'est la même langue. Like, je parle anglais, je suis Suisse-Américaine. Alors, peut-être, like, mon français, c'est plus facile pour toi que le français de quelqu'un de la France. Oui, exactly. Your French, yours is easier to understand because you're American, you speak English. So, that's what you were saying. Exactly. I'm just translating for those who might not have understood. Yeah, yeah, for the public. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I think you're better than you have yourself credit for. Like, you. I used to read books in French. I could not read a book in French. You tried. Like, you were. I used to be able to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah, yeah. For sure. But I did go to Paris recently and I couldn't, there was not one thing I understood. I was trying to, like, read the streets. No, I think it's easier. What I was saying for the public is, like, I speak French with an American accent and my first language is English. So, my syntax is also kind of English. English-esque. So, I think it's actually easier for Brooke to understand me than it would be for Brooke to understand a native French speaker. Yeah, for surely. Yeah. But it's not my, it's not my best. Yeah, my best is Spanish followed by Russian. And then I would say, I would say if we're ranking Spanish, Spanish is the best, then Russian. I would say the ones where I'm good but not fluent are, like, French, Hindi, and. You didn't touch on Hindi. We're getting there. Okay. French, Hindi, and Farsi. And then the ones where I'm just conversational are Arabic and Chinese. Got it. Hindi was the most recent one. Well, aside from Bengali, which I just started. But it was the most recent one. Due to, so I lived in India for about a year. There have been many wonderful Indian ladies in my life. But the one who I learned Hindi from was, she actually didn't speak English and still doesn't. So that was the lingua franca of our relationship, which lasted four months. It was a Hindi-only relationship. And that was a jump start. That was actually the first time I've ever had a relationship with someone who, like, actually that's not true. I was going to say who didn't speak any English, but, like, Yulia, my host sister, also doesn't. She doesn't speak any English. But I would say it was, I would say it was the first time I had had a relationship in a language that I, like, really wasn't fluent in or wasn't comfortable in. Because, like, I'd done it in Spanish and Russian, but, like, I speak those a lot better. But when I, when I met this girl, like, my Hindi was not, not good enough to have a relationship. And it got there quickly. How do you start a relationship with someone that, where you don't speak the same language? Like, how did you and her? even begin to like understand understand that you were romantically interested in each other um i kind of had a crush on her from afar and how i initiated it was we were having a conversation like i had to i basically i was i was in order to i like to put myself in like extreme immersion situations so in order to learn hindi i went to an extremely rural part of india which is kandwa district madhya pradesh yeah and i was volunteering for like a grassroots ngo there and she was one of the people that worked for the ngo um so i had a crush on her and i think how i first broached it was like i said to her but i'm gonna frame it like probably how it sounded to her i was like my country marriage girl girl marriage boy boy marriage my country you in my country you like girl girl marriage you like boy boy marriage and she was like a question you were asking yeah yeah okay yeah i was trying to say in my very limited hindi would you prefer to marry a man or a woman if you had good question yeah and she said without hesitation a girl and i was like oh that's that's that's really that's really interesting but part of me just thought that really interesting to me part of me thought it's just because like in her society women don't have a lot of freedom and i by her society i mean like rural central india and the specific place not all of india obviously but and i can't stress this enough like do you mind me saying her occupation yes and i will i will provide an addendum she was like the um and this is an amazing thing to be like this is no judgment at all it's just more of a comment on like the different uh structures in which our societies operate like her occupation was the village basket weaver yes um and the addendum to that is that in india there is a caste system which is a you could google it but okay basically that was her family's it's too complicated and like loaded and for me to explain and i'm not even indian so i won't do it justice that's why i said google it um but her her caste which is basically her family's occupation going back generations was to weave bamboo like handicrafts um and so that is what she grew up doing and she had she had to drop out of school uh when she was 12 years old in order to like weave baskets and stuff for her family but she was really smart and really uh like ambitious which is what i liked about her and she despite that she was able to eventually like pursue her education and start working for an ngo i love that lindsey and i think it's remarkable your ability to find the lesbian in in any small rural area absolutely absolutely and i mean it's not rural but still it's it's surprises i wouldn't say it's a high focus lesbian area no it's certainly not certainly not yeah so it really is a remarkable thing that a talent that you have yeah didn't like she not know that like it was an an option for like to be with a woman no she was actually pretty woke about that something that like to give an idea of like what a rural environment she came from like i went to delhi with her at some point in our relationship and i like put we got some like rice and we got home i put the rice in the microwave to heat it up for her and she was like is that is that heating like she didn't know what the microwave was doing so like that is the level or i was like lakshmi yeah whatever her name's lakshmi i was like lakshmi you've never seen my country before um and she was like i was like you've probably only seen my country in movies and she's like i've never seen your country in movies and i was like you never saw an american movie she's like no i've only seen indian movies so like it was very wide gap yeah definitely a wide gap would you say that was like why it didn't work out oh i would say i would say like in in a roundabout way yes i think i think um it was one of those like you fell in love with like the potential not the person and i think that like i deeply admire her and like her dreams and like all the amazing things she has and will achieve but i think that like we're better as as friends than as and you still are friends right and we still are friends actually there's some sad news though but that's a downer oh her her parents are forcing her to get married oh my god yeah that's horrible yeah to a man i would assume yeah oh that's really sad it is not great yeah oh how's she doing she's not happy um yeah she she was i mean i like she was she was trying she has been she's 30 she has been since she was a teenager denying potential prospects but then um basically there was like someone in her family had an un like had an unmarried pregnancy and her family like freaked out and they're like all the unmarried women have to get married and i was like you they can't force you like you're financial independent you do your own thing like just just just don't do it and she's like they'll cut me out of life forever it's like and then speaking to like some friends who are more familiar with the context i've realized that it's like quite complicated and like there are sometimes even like violent repercussions for like women who would refuse marriage in a community like this and it's just like it's tough fortunately she they were gonna marry her to this guy who wouldn't even let her work but then um she convinced them to let her marry this other guy instead and they also convinced them to wait a few months so like as of now she's like promised to this guy but but um might not get married and i just want to say also like for the for the like fear like whatever i'm talking about like only i'm only speaking about like kalwa block kandwa district madhya pradesh i'm not speaking about all of india like no one should take this to mean that this is what india is like this is what one specific community in india is like but india is an incredibly diverse country so i just wanted to put that out there thank you that's pretty devastating yeah it's for lakshmi yeah well i'll i'll ask you about that more offline offline we can take that's really sad the lemonati has spent decades keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows their lemon agenda has infiltrated the country and they've been keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows for years think about it but now seven up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda now lime comes first seven up flip the sip i hate mondays king swine cinnamon swirl bite taylor hansen sure i'll try one um hey let's get back to work please but taylor hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly king's hawaiian cinnamon bites taylor hansen nice try one king's hawaiian cinnamon bites there's nothing like it um okay is that a wrap on the languages you'd say um yeah and then i mean the the most recent is just just bengali like well i've been dating and actually it's interesting i met this girl a few months i'd say it's been almost two months oh it's been two months happy two months thanks um yeah two months ago was our first date uh yeah but what's cool about her is she also loves languages and it's the first time that i've ever like dated someone who also likes languages but we're we're still we're getting to know each other we're getting to know each other we're getting to know each other so we'll see how far it goes but i'm trying to teach her spanish and she's trying to teach me bengali so that's fun is bengali her native language that is her native language yeah she's from she's from calcutta so that's her native language and or do you guys does she speak english she does she does okay okay yeah she's she speaks english okay that way yeah that's nice that's nice yeah um how how's your bengali um balona i knew that was coming i knew i wasn't getting an answer very good linds palo not means not good but okay hey but at least you have that yeah how many countries have you been to if you know oh i um i actually do know i believe actually i have an app on my phone so let me check but the the app is um so so i have been to um 66 un countries but that doesn't include taiwan or palestine so i'd say 68 why not taiwan uh it's not recognized by a lot of countries i had no idea yeah because when were you in taiwan i did i did a summer language program there in undergrad okay you know i get confused sometimes because you're a little bit all over the place yeah there are times where i'll like just open my find my friends and it's like lindsay is in tajikistan okay i'm waiting i'm hoping to go to pakistan i'm actually waiting for my visa have you not been there yet no so that will be new that will be fun and exciting it will will um you have opened like there have been so many countries I didn't know existed until Tajikistan and there's another stand that was completely uh-huh I actually haven't been to Kyrgyzstan but Kyrgyzstan maybe I don't I actually I think that's the first time I'm hearing of that right now okay so I do think it was a different one yeah and you've been there I have in Kazakhstan where I've I've been to I've been to Turkmenistan as well I've been to all the stands except Kyrgyzstan and well and Pakistan and Afghanistan but they're usually not considered part of the stands can I ask what is it that draws you to the stands because I feel like that most people if it's fair for me to say like wouldn't be like that's where I want to go yeah it wasn't really it wasn't really I wasn't really drawn to them I went to Tajikistan for the first time because I have been twice I've spent probably a cumulative six months in Tajikistan in my lifetime why so the first first four months was a study abroad program because I wanted to study Persian and you can't as an American study Persian in Iran or Afghanistan so that's why it was the only place I could study Persian and then subsequently after that I got a job working for this like scholarship program which gave scholarships to students from former Soviet countries to study as exchange students in the United States and they sent you to where you had language skills so because I spoke Russian and Persian they sent me to a lot of those countries because they speak Russian and I remember that you had a romance with one of your co-workers right uh I had a crush unrequited on one of my co-workers she just recently got married in Canada to a man yes damn that's okay I did I did though I did travel through four countries and I did want to like find a woman in every country during that job that was part of my deal remember there was also Sveta the Ukrainian who you love with with the brain okay yeah I hope she's okay I do I genuinely do too we we fell out of touch but yeah I'm sad to hear that about you and Sveta um are there any of the countries that you've been to that you're like I have no desire to return um I mean I think this is what I always say like I don't think there's anywhere in the world that like if someone gave me a plane ticket I wouldn't go because I just love traveling so much like I would go anywhere I think there are definitely places that like I definitely wouldn't go unless there was like I actually recently went to um Budapest with my friend and was very over underwhelmed uh I feel like Tajikistan and Uzbekistan I've been to both of those countries twice and like I think I've I've I think I've I think it's enough I wouldn't really wouldn't go out of my way to go again to Tajikistan or Uzbekistan I was very underwhelmed by Costa Rica as well um some of my favorites have been Mexico India those are those I could go back again and again and again and again because I just think there's so much there's so much cool stuff there um also was a huge fan of Iran when I went there yeah do you want to talk about that I can talk about that I can talk about that I can yeah yeah I I um my family was not super excited about well I knew they wouldn't be excited about me going to Iran so I just told them I was going to Costa Rica uh and put someone in a in a difficult position by telling them you were going to Iran and not to tell anyone yeah yeah yeah I yeah hello but you were I had no I had a group chat that you were in Brooke of like my siblings like my close friends who was aware that I was in Iran and I would text them updates but um my parents most notably were not aware until that was genuinely scary for for me as you are like a gay Jewish person yeah yeah American as well a gay Jewish American yeah um but that I my understanding is that was one of your most positive travel experiences that was one of my best travel experiences that was one of your most positive travel experiences that was one of your best travel experiences that was one of your best travel experiences that was one of your best travel experiences obviously government of Iran is is very bad to its people but the people of Iran I like have no shortage of amazing things to say the sites there the food there was it was amazing it's great lens um you kind of already said this but I was just going to ask like where next but Pakistan Pakistan yeah most most immediately and I think I think well I do want to visit every country in the world before I die so is that possible uh probably like technically people with like American passports aren't allowed to go to North Korea right now but like I think in my lifetime that will probably change or maybe I'll get another passport like I I think it it's it's something passport will you get I don't know I mean I live in London now like I could get a UK passport if I stayed here long enough can you go to North Korea with a UK passport passport I haven't looked into that okay I'm not super pressed about it like I I kind of think that in my lifetime I'll see some sort of change whether it's to the government in North Korea or to their policy of not allowing U.S. citizens I've never been denied a visa okay I and I've gotten some really hard ones like for those who know Turkmenistan is really hard Russia's not easy I've gotten it several times China Cuba well Cuba's Cuba's not hard but yeah is there anywhere you like haven't been besides Pakistan that you really want to go um I mean I'll anywhere like I would go anywhere I think I I haven't I haven't traveled too much I've traveled a decent amount in East Africa but I haven't been to West Africa at all so that would be nice I have been I've not been to like certain countries in South America I'd have a Venezuelan friend so maybe I'll go with I'm kind of shocked you haven't been there yeah I I think I I would like to go with a local person and it was only like in the last few years that I'd have a close enough friend that I could go with her love yeah okay well that ends the travel portion of my notes um so moving on to just kind of like our shared experience at school um I have I've spoken a lot about meeting for worship and I've told the story of Miguel Michelle coming out as Mike um I've spoken a lot about meeting for worship and I've told the story of Miguel Michelle um but you know a lot of people like came out as as gay including you and do you want to like speak to that experience like what it was like for you and like I've when you you're supposed to stand up at meeting for worship if you're moved by the light to do so and I guess I'm kind of just wondering one were you moved by the light to like how did it feel being on the on the coming out and three how do you look back at the experience whatever you really want to say about it I will say that I didn't know it was coming I didn't know you were going to do it and I was sitting on the facing bench which means there's like all these benches in our auditorium that just like our normal seats that face the stage and then there's the facing bench where there's one bench in front of the stage that looks out at the audience so I was kind of looking out at at at Lindsay when she stood up and then take it away yeah well I I remember it very many I I think what is hard for people to understand when I tell this when we talk about this is like how much things have changed since um 2012 when this happened like at the time that I came out gay marriage was not legal in Pennsylvania like and now it's like hard to imagine but yeah in our in our high school there were very there weren't that many people that were out I remember like it was one of the most progressive high schools in the area and they wanted to do a presentation to the middle schoolers about LGBT and everyone was like it's too soon like so yeah and it is wild to think yeah how much it's changed and like we had the gay straight alliance like that's what it was called yeah um so yeah it had and but I remember there was there was a boy who was out I think I was no one was out in our grade as lesbian there were some girls who were out as bi there was at least one that I can think of who who was in a relationship with a woman so like street creds why do I remember everyone coming out at meeting for worship but like I can't actually think of like who did am I is it am I constructing Oliver I feel like the people who came out just came out of meeting for worship and maybe that's why I did too because I was like you have to I'm not sure yeah it was kind of like the right like you weren't gay until you came out of me right right yeah because like when I think about it I think about it like I think about it I'm like I don't know even why I did that like it's not really like me my personality to do that but maybe maybe you weren't moved by the light maybe you were just like guys this is something I have to do yeah and and my but then there's also my brother who did come out as gay as 12 at age 12 and has has only dated women subsequently right did he make a formal retractment I don't remember no he never did he does only he's only dated women if you ask him about it he still is like yes I'm still gay and I'm like make it make sense Yeah, I know you have an amazing collection. of lgbt siblings yeah three out of four three for four three for four and the other he's straight but it's funny because the one straight brother is like well okay to be fair like one of my brothers has only dated women but because he did come out as gay in middle school i do treat him as part of the lgbt i think that he's treating him as part of the lgbt is more than fair um and then yeah my my sister is did you know that my sister's now doing doing lesbian oh absolutely yeah yeah she was close friends because oh oh okay okay yeah she was doing bi for a while but then she realized that she's lesbian so now she's doing lesbian um yep and daniel my brother the youngest is straight but his type is like very like alt like armpit hair green hair short hair kind of androgynous so like i hope that he'll go for a she they and thus we can be four for four yeah if that's that but like if he's dating a non-binary person does that make him part of the lgbt community that's a that's a hot topic uh i have spoken to him about it and he said that he doesn't think it does and because he he's like i don't want to like he's like at the end of the day like even though i am attracted to some people who identify as non-binary i don't want to like identify as non-binary i don't want to like identify as non-binary i don't want to like identify as non-binary like i think like i'm attracted perhaps to the pieces of them that i perceive as feminine and he's like to say that i was queer feels like i'm like adopting a label that like isn't making sense for me and like for example he like i couldn't see him being into someone who was non-binary assigned male at birth got it okay that makes sense yeah okay back to meeting for worship back to me for worship so i remember there was a boy who was out who i was friends with who we were friends with uh i called him the night before matt oh and he had come i forgot he came out at our beach meeting for worship um yeah that was really yeah yeah so i remember my heart was beating so fast because he didn't tell anyone yet this was the first time he was saying it and didn't he come out as bi yes yes i remember he said that and i was like oh so close so close right let's let's not make let's not make mountains out of molehills that's so close oh almost right on the snake eyes um but i called him the night before and i was like matt i was because i had though i had not come out publicly i could come out to you brooke i'm like i had to come out to my close friends prior to meeting for worship right but i called matt and i was like i i'm thinking of it but i'm not sure if i'm ready and he's like i don't think anyone's ever ready i think you just have to have to dive in and so i just dove in and another thing that i'll say is like it has been like both beautiful it has been beautiful to see like how many people from our high school have subsequently come out but i'm like also like wish you guys had come out when there was like three of us like that would have like it would have been nice you know but i everyone's on their own journey for worship or if it's like a given like yeah right how did you feel when you did it um i think i felt embarrassed i think i like had some internalized homophobia like i was like does everyone need to know that and like i remember i i did have some internalized homophobia because like there was a teacher at our school who was who was lesbian and who was married to a woman and i remember like i was like oh well like every time someone looks at her they're gonna think of her having sex with a woman and i'm like oh my god i'm gonna have sex with a woman and i'm gonna have sex with a woman and like now that's what people are gonna think when they look at me but whatever that was internalized homophobia like yeah i don't care now if people think that that's great yeah if people think that hell yeah yeah absolutely you want me to send a video i will nice i like i really hate to think about like as much as our school had its problems like i'd hate to think about us going anywhere else truly yeah our neurodivergent selves i think i wouldn't have been i say that all the time i say like i i wasn't bullied but like i would have been at i yeah at any other school i right and i just i don't even like i yeah it really i don't like to think about it what this is a bit of a non-sequitur but i guess i i there is an important part of our early connection was and it is touching on neurodivergence was when i would have genuine sicknesses in third grade and i was like oh my god i'm gonna have sex with a woman and i'm gonna have any you would go home and i think that speaks to the connect the link yeah the bond you have to understand to clarify breaking my arm like i broke my arm and brooke went home because her arm hurt i had to i was sick i did go home this was like this makes more sense but like you had thrown up yeah and then i was like i can't be here i cannot be here you stayed which was shocking but yeah i went home you threw up i went home and you broke your arm and i went home yeah and i i would assume you went home when you broke your arm um i don't actually remember if i went home but i do remember like we did not go to the emergency room immediately because i remember i came downstairs for dinner that night and i was like cradling my arm and my mom was like lindsey does your arm still hurt from when you fell and i was like yes and she was like oh that's not okay yeah we went to the doctor and it was broken i'm so jealous of your cast yeah um they're also people did think we were gay together yeah they did yeah they did um which i'm never beating the gay allegations yeah it's not like of course even didn't your didn't your dad wasn't he like if you and lindsey are our partners like i would i thought it's okay with me well he ever i mean my dad is always like it's you can tell me anything like it's okay to be gay and there was a time in high school when my dad was like i'm not gay i'm i think i was really depressed and my mom was like let me know if if you're gay if you're gay and it's okay um but my dad recently confessed that he thought i was gay because we would all take naps together and i was like we were just sleeping yeah yeah yeah um but yeah i think like as like an uh older man in the early 2000s he assumed like since you were a lesbian and my best friend i was lesbian yeah which is totally fair i mean i yeah i think it's it's in a way it's surprising that those rumors weren't weren't stronger i agree the the key piece of the puzzle here is there's a photo of us oh are you gonna tell about the flowers i was gonna speak about how about you start how about you start okay i love this story i had a oh this is probably revealed too if she sees this um something tells me she won't but who knows it tells me she's not but you never reach out if you're tuning in i will don't even care um so there was a girl in the great above us who i had a crush on and uh she was dating a boy uh so i did make a card with her entire name in the superman s's uh a never-ending chain of superman s's uh wrote all the reasons why i thought she was special cut some fresh flowers for my garden and i had a conversation with her at this point i don't think so we were in a club together so like we had interacted peripherally through that totally but i cut some fresh flowers from the garden had had a friend give it to her uh she tweeted this is so nice thanks so much so that was sweet but then as my way of secretly revealing this to her we haven't even gone into my stalker but that's okay for next time um for next as my way of revealing this to her i uh posted a prom picture with brooke in front of the flowers no i didn't post it because that would have been too uh i made brooke post the picture of us standing in front of the flowers that i had cut and given to her am i making this up or were you actually holding me like a baby in the photo or we just were we just standing there i think we're just standing there but i do think there might be another photo where i'm holding you like a baby okay yeah so you were hoping that she would make the connection the flowers behind you were the same flowers in the bouquet yeah which like yeah that's pretty amazing lindsey that's pretty damn amazing any other and i don't know if you're comfortable speaking about this but any other grand gestures you would like to speak on uh i mean yeah like what what other what what wouldn't i i'm i mean do you like dare you be talking about wheel for are we talking about like romantic gestures i was thinking about curtains oh yeah i can why not yeah um take off the reins so uh i did i did as we know i was in love with my spanish teacher uh and i did we did a school-wide so entire school students teachers secret santa um secret snow person and i was like i need to get my spanish teacher for that so i spoke to my i thought she wasn't even your teacher at this point no i no i this is the crazy thing brooke in ninth grade i got her organically like picked her name organically but this wasn't And then in 11th grade, I raked it. And in 11th grade, she was your teacher? 12th, 12th, 12th. In 12th, she was, yeah. Okay. What did you get her in ninth grade? Organically. Oh, what did I get her? Yeah, what was your gift? I think like Reese's, and I made her a card. And you weren't in love with her yet? No, not yet. She was just like the hot meal from the oatmeal video. Yeah, okay. So then when I was in love with her, yeah. So I did go to my friend who was the student council president and say, I'm going to need to pick her name. Is there anything you can do? And he said, well, we give envelopes out to every homeroom. So I can make sure she's in your envelope, but I can't make sure you pick her name because no one can do that. And I was like, that's fine. Put her in my envelope. I'll take it from there. I will take it from there. So in my homeroom, I announce if anyone has teacher beep and teacher beep, they wrote my college recommendations. So I'd love to do something nice for them. Let me know and we can trade, knowing fully well that only one of those two is going to be in the envelope. Pretty damn brilliant. Yep. That's how I use my intelligence at that age. So got her. I did devise a very detailed scavenger hunt, which involved like a secret alphabet and decoding messages. Yep. And once you, and that was like clues over 10 days. And once you find, finally decoded and they were like references from all the books that she had taught. And like, once you finally pretty, pretty in depth, I'd say. Yeah. And she knew it was me too. Like there was, there was a moment when we were in the school cafeteria. Brooke, do you remember this? Right? I don't know. Well, we, I was in the school cafeteria and she came up right behind me and was like, what are you doing? Yes. I remember that. She was like, I know that it's you, but I don't know what you're doing. And I was like. And you were giddy giddy. Yeah. Fun fact. We are still in touch. We're still friends. Oh, I mean, the way that you weaseled yourself into her life was incredible. And I haven't had feelings for her to clarify since high school, but I did do a masterclass. So I, but by the end of decoding everything, the final word was Cortinas, which means curtain. And then I, as she discovered Cortinas on the final day, she also walked into her classroom where I had pre-installed custom made curtains on all of her windows, which had iron on patches from all of her favorite pieces of film and literature. And the curtains, she was like, she had been kind of like, uh, complaining about the light at one point, right? Yeah. Like just like the glare and like needing a curtain or something. And so. You had actually fat fashioned her a custom pair pre-installed. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, so, and then, yeah, there were, we also weaseled. Brooke was actually a babysitter of teacher's children. And so I weaseled my way into babysitting her, her, her child as well, because, uh, I told Brooke that she had to pretend to be sick so that I could, uh, babysit. And then once I weaseled my way in, I was just a standing baby. And I was just a standing baby.