If She Wanted To She Would

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After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. Hey everyone, welcome back to Brook and Connor. Connor is not here today, but Brook is, and we have a very, very special guest, a friend of the podcast. If you've been listening, you've heard me mention my friend, Glenzy, before on my best friend from growing up. Glenzy's here today. Hey, Lindsay. Hi, everyone. Hey, thanks so much for joining us all the way from across the pond. I'm right live from my work office in London. Yeah. Thanks for coming. We really are so glad to have you. I was asking, is he like, what have I said about you before? And I think he's pretty bare bones. So we have a lot, we have a lot to go into today. But I think really what I've said is that you are a world traveler. Yeah. You speak few, few different languages. Yeah. And something special about you is that you, I don't want to say collect because that feels wrong, but like you have, like a few different lovers from the areas that you've been to. Yeah. I would say I'm monogamous, so I don't definitely don't typically have more than one at the same time. You're what? Monogamous. Oh, okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's key. No, you're, and I would even say you're, you're a bit of a hopeless romantic. Yes. Absolutely. Which I really love about you because I think objectively you are the most brilliant person I know, you know, co-umbia grad, you're a lawyer. But you are also able to become mentally incapacitated by love and I love that very much so extreme to the point where you also like need to seek help of an outside professional. So I love that about you and I think that is actually what keeps us so many things keep us connected. So many things keep us connected. But that is what the big thing that I think has has woven our our thread throughout the years. Yeah. So yeah, I just want to dive a little bit deeper into a few of those things. I guess starting with our history, you know. Okay. We went through K through 12 together. We did. And I've spoken that, you know, about our school. Yeah. It, you know, a little bit. People know about meeting for worship. Yeah. People know that a lot of people came out during meeting for worship. I think they know that you are one of those people. So it'll be really interesting because I've only spoken about what it was like to be a receiver of people standing up in meeting for worship. So it'll be cool to hear what it was like to be a giver. Okay. No, sorry. I'm still going through. Oh, you're doing okay. I'm doing more of like an intro and then I'm going to really open the floor to you. Okay. Just kind of going through our background a little bit. So we've known each other since kindergarten. I think we were in the same first grade class, one B, the Sheldon. Not sure if we can. I don't know how much we connected in one B. I definitely admired you. You know, I feel like we really connected in third grade, right? That's right. And three C, which looking back was the classroom for the neurodivergent folk. Would you say? Certainly. Certainly. We would, the evidence suggesting that. Yeah. Well, there was, yeah, I think there was a bigger. It was like the kids who needed a little bit of extra TLC. And I think that's when we started. Is that when we started with the sponges? I think, yes, that's the, that was when we started with all the fads with the different crazy bones and sponges and all the different fads. And we were collectors. We were collectors. I think it was when we became very close, was in fifth or sixth grade when you moved to my street. Yes, agreed. Started that connection in third grade when we drew faces on sponges and, you know, they were our family, the sponges and stress balls as well. Those were members of our family. Tom O'Gauches. Tom O'Gauches, yeah, the gogos. Yeah, started collecting. And then when I moved to your street, they was game over. And can, okay, I can share that this was fun. That Brookwood routinely run away from home. And her parents would call my house and be like just checking the breakfast there. And we'd be like, yeah, she's here. And they're like, okay, great. They'll tell her we called. I didn't know that they did that. Yeah, they called. That's nice to know that they cared. Because I was always like, they don't care about me. Yeah, I would run away. I would say maybe once a week or so. Once twice, but did even apart from running away, spent my entire adolescence at your home, apart from running away, I would say. And you're also the creative mind behind Greece and Wicked and all of the plays that the producer did. You were the producer. And I think that that also speaks to your character is that you didn't even feel the need to be a main character. You were just fine to be the creative mind. Yeah, so I mean, I was just of air. Actually, I think that was my main role. I was Swini Todd. Oh, I don't remember that. You don't remember that I was Swini Todd. I don't really remember Swini Todd. It's because we never edited it together. But it's not a final product. We didn't make a final product. Yeah, we didn't. There was no execution. But no, there was. But I don't think we still have access to it, which is why it faded away. That's for probably for the best, because I think Swini Todd and Lamez, especially, I was like, it's almost like, it's not cute anymore. Like we were like, maybe like had Lamez seen the light of day. I'm not showing Lamez. That was I were 18. We were 18. Yeah, I think we were like juniors or seniors in high school. Possibly a little bit too old to be even in the home videos. No, you know what? You're never too old to be doing that. Has gravity the musical seen the light of day? Has what? Gravity the musical. No. No. It's on listed, so. Gravity the musical was, and this is like the kind of school you went to, like you could do anything for your physics final project. So we made a musical called Gravity the Musical. Limited science involved. No science involved. No, I would say no science involved. But it was like, it was a musical about the story. It was a gay story of Copernicus and who's the other one? Kepler. Kepler. Yeah. So. Got a 97 on it. Got a 99. I thought we got a 98. Might have been. Yeah. So that's a little bit about our history. And I'm going to dive into some hard-hitting questions. Okay. How many languages do you speak? Eight. Okay. Not all fluently, but I will say that all but one are connected to have been at one point or another connected to at least one one lady. Are you comfortable walking us through kind of which language do you speak and how they're romantically tied to your life? Yeah, but I'll just I'll and level of proficiency. I'll be very, very brief. And then don't you have to be brief. Like this is why we're here. Oh, this is why we're here. Well, I was going to say it could be I could do a brief summary and then we could dive dig more deeply into what you felt was worth thinking into. But I feel that whatever you, okay, you want to speak about is what's worth being said. So I my first language I learned was Spanish. Started learning in middle school was obsessed did whatever was in love with my school Spanish teacher. I was going to say like, do you think you would have been in love with Spanish? I don't think I love with like your team said that in a domain she could hear, but I'm sure she knew. So it's all right. Wait, you were also in love with the middle school Spanish teacher, but you didn't know you were gay. So you didn't know that that was I find that one more cringe a little more cringe, but I was unaware. Yeah. Yeah. I would say it's safe to say you've been in love with every Spanish teacher you've had. I think it's safe to say. I really do. Like most language teachers I've had that are female, I'd say it's hard not to guess. Yeah, because that's what you find attractive I guess. Right, it's just the them speaking in other language. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Okay, so that's your big one, a Spanish. - Yes. So that's the one that I speak, that I speak, I would say very, very fluently. I also did have my relationship of two and a half years with Dominican woman who we are, the relationship primary language was Spanish. - Yes. - Then Russian, and you were able to step into more of a stepmother role, is that okay to say? - Yeah. Well, no, I never acted, she had, she still has a sign. I don't think I ever acted like a stepmother to him. I think I just acted kind of like a friend, but actually a fun fact for his birthday, I got him Japanese lessons, 'cause he was like obsessed with like anime, and I was like, okay, but you need to see that Japan is like beyond anime, so I got Japanese lessons for him. - And then the next year, then the next year on his birthday, he was like Lindsay, I was like, oh, I got you a gift, and he was like, is it school? Please tell me it's not school, and it was. (laughs) - That's a good lesson. - Yeah. - Yeah, that's it, yeah. - I like that. - But he was also so, so my ex never told him that we were dating, but she also never lied to him while we were dating. And then afterwards, she figured out that he knew, because he was like, should I say it in Spanish or English? And he's like, he's like, yeah. - Like, my mom is super italian day. My mom's ex is very smart, so. - Oh, that's sweet. That's really sweet, yeah. - But that was a more recent relation. - That was a really recent one, yeah. - But how old were you and you started dating a woman with a child? 'Cause I remember being jarred. - I was 25. - Yeah, I mean, I guess that's like, I guess that's fine. Yeah, it was, it was like, I met her and I only, I thought that it was only ever gonna be a hook up. So like, otherwise I don't think I would've gone on a date with a woman who was 10 years old with me and had a child, but then I really liked her. And so, I was just like, well, guess I'm living with her and her child now. - That's fine to do. - That's fine to do and it's fine, and I did. - Yep. - And you just. - Okay, Spanish. - Yeah, that's Spanish. Check the bases. Oh, there were also like many, many, like I lived in Chicago for three years in Los Guam, like there are many lovely Spanish-speaking ladies there that I had flings with. So that's another wing of Spanish, but Russian, I was an exchange student in Russia when I was 16 and actually that was how I realized I was gay. My first kiss with a woman and first having sex with a woman was, in these, you know, good old Russia. - Yeah. - She does not speak English, nor does anyone she knows. So I think it's fine to say it. - I think it's fine to say. I also do want to flag that, imagine my shock, we're 16, we're sophomores in high school. Our school has no sort of like program or anything like that. And Lucy is just like, all right, I'm gonna head out for about six months to Ms. Ninov-Garard. - Yep. - Yellow. - And remember that said, I would say, I was like, this was not a good time in my life. Like I was really dependent on you. - Yeah. - And so I was like, really sad to see you go. - Yeah. - And you also only had access to email. - Yeah, that's right, that's right. - So it could have even talked to you. - It was before Smartphone, so I didn't have a Smartphone. And I did not bring a computer 'cause I wanted to be immersed in the experience. So I was just really accessing the internet when I borrowed my host's computer to use email. - From time to time. - So I couldn't really talk to her. And I asked her, I don't remember why I asked you this, but I think I was joking when I was like, do you think we'll still be friends? That was in college. - That was in college. - No, 'cause I said something else. I said something. I'm conflating to incidents. - I think there was another thing and you were like, or I said something about like, don't forget me or something, or like something. And you were like, I'll genuinely earnestly like, I'll try not to, 'cause you're not capable of lying. - Yeah. - So I was spiraling a bit when you were in Disney. - I remember when I came back, I remember the first time that I saw you, you were just like kind of like hysterically laughing, but borderline crying. And I'm like, brok, I'm here. And you were like, but you weren't. - You were, you had left, but you came back. - Yep. - Can I ask what compelled you to go to Russia as a sophomore for six months with no prior Russian accent? - I didn't have any prior language college of Russia at the time I went. Because I think I've always been drawn to like the other, like controversy and like the other side. So like to me, like Russia seemed, and I think a lot of the languages I've learned, it's like in some ways are like the bad guys. Like I also learned Persian, I also learned Arabic. I'm not, I don't think they're the bad guys, but they're people who are portrayed in like the US media and like often misunderstood misport trade. Like I'd say like Russian speakers, Persian speakers and Arabic speakers, you could say that. - Yeah. - So I think I've always been drawn to like learning more and like seeing things from all perspectives and that's also why I became lawyer 'cause I like seeing things from different perspectives. - Human rights lawyer, no less. - And how's your, do you wanna talk a little bit more about that romance and becoming, and finding out you were gay or do you wanna move on? - That we can move on. It was, I think it was in Russia. Oh, I will, one last thing I'll say is that I did hook up with a Russian police officer who I met in Russia. This is separate from my host's story. This was on a subsequent visit to Russia. So I met her on Cuntaccio, which is the Russian police vote. - Exactly. - Yeah, and we met and I was talking to her. I'm like, so what do you, what do you do for a living? And she's like, I'm a police officer. And I laughed 'cause I thought she was joking because Russia's like pretty actively like, persecutes gay people. And she was like, no, I am. I'll show you my uniform. And then at that point, I was like, I will be hooking up with her because for the rest of my life, like I will be able to have this experience of having hooked up with a police woman of the Russian Federation. And I have found out. - And now you get to say that on BNCMAP. - But it's a blessing for everyone involved. - It's a blessing. - Yep. And would you say like, you're still fluent in Russian? - I would say so. I would say definitely I'm more comfortable in Spanish than in Russian. It is a bit rusty 'cause I don't practice it that much. But like when I need to use it, I can get back in the groove. Like in my job, the woman who covers Russia visited and like we were speaking Russian, it was fun. - Yeah, I will say because of you, like I'm able to recognize what languages are around me, whereas I don't think that would be the case without you. Like I can distinguish Russian from Arabic, I think, or Farsi, because I've heard you speak. - Right, them. - I can definitely at least do Russian. Hey guys, we wanna take a break to think the sponsor of today's episode, Lola Blankets. Lola is the world's number one blanket, crafted with ultra soft luxury faux fur and a signature four-way stretch that people instantly obsess over the second they touch it. I have two Lolas at home. I have my sky blue Lola and I'm not exactly sure what shade of green my other Lola is, but it's a gorgeous jade-ish green. And I'm obsessed with it, and more importantly, my cats are obsessed with the Lolas. 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Download the Poshmark app and use invite code B&C when you sign up to get $10 off your first purchase. Or shop now on Poshmark.com/B&C and get $10 off your first purchase. That's p-o-s-h-m-a-r-k dot com slash B&C. Spanish Russian. Yeah, the Spanish Russian. So then I was manned down at age 18 when I fell in love for the first time with a big one with a girl who was Persian American. But it was out of love for her that I learned far see. Yes. Yeah. Fair idea. Yeah. At the time and throughout the tire course or relationship, identified as straight asked me to be her girlfriend by saying. If you want, you can tell people that I'm your girlfriend. So you could say that was the greatest. That was my first love. Yeah. But then I did start taking Persian and undergrad for that reason. But I also, I majored in linguistics so that I could not only take Persian, but also other languages. So I also started studying Mandarin in undergrad. Pause. Because I want to go back to the first love real quick. Yeah. That's the first time I, like, you really transcended beyond language in terms of morphing. I would say because, like, becoming, like, more, like, not more than, like, her, but, like, I see. Changing some other aspects, like, for example, in high school, you would wear different unique things. Yeah. To school, I'd say. Sometimes that you were in, I did dress as the teacher I had to crush on for dress like a teacher day, but, like, she wasn't my teacher and had never been, so it was really weird. Yeah. I'm thinking more of, like, when you would show up in, like, a Tanzanian cloth. Oh, yeah. That was just because of my travels. I know. But I'm saying, like, you weren't necessarily, like, doing, like, high fashion. No, never. And I do want to flag that one of our teachers did pull you aside and offer to give you her daughter's hand-me-downs, right? No, what I think what you're thinking of is the cafeteria, lady. I was walking through to get a cookie after lunch and she just was like, you can go. And I was like, no, like, I'll pay for it. That's fine. And she's like, no, no. Just go. Like, because of the way I was dressed, she was assuming that I was not able to afford some snack. No, I remember. Or maybe she told me to tell you, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Remember Pajot? Pajot Pablo. I thought she was like, you can have these clothes. No, I think you're right. You're right, actually. That's ringing. It wasn't ringing about until you said which teacher it was, but now it does. Yeah. So basically, yeah. Not dressed in the night. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Never. But you started shopping at Urban Outfitters when you started giving this woman. Yeah. Because she didn't really like that. Really became, like, into fashion, which was shocking. Yeah. As someone who was presented the way you did. Which is over now. Which is over. So it's interesting to see what you carry with you. True. And then what I don't. And, but I do usually carry the languages with me, like, it's stunning how you carry the thing. After I broke up with, yeah, after we, actually, I broke up. Well, after we broke up, I, yeah, I've continued learning Farsi. And in fact, like, most of the learning Farsi was after that. So, yeah. Should we, should we move to, yeah, yeah. So then I was learning Mandarin, which is the only language that's never been tied to a woman. So, any eligible Mandarin-speaking ladies, extra points, Ruguay ni buxue shou ying wan, extra points. Because then I'll learn very quickly. Yeah. Do you want to flag, like, your single? Or do you, are you, it's complicated? It's pure. It's complicated. She's complicated. I wouldn't, and there is a language involved. And there's the language involved. Which one? Bengali. Of course. Okay. We'll get to Bengali. I have more questions about your current. It's number nine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Mandarin. How about you speak that like you could get around? I would say it's what, I would say my like worst ones as of now are Mandarin and Arabic. I would say definitely I have survival, like, I can definitely get around in the country. I can talk about what I like, I can talk about what I did today, I can ask people how they're doing. Like, I would say I can do basics, but I wouldn't be comfortable like working in that language or like, like, I would, yeah, definitely I'd say well enough to get around, but not, like, not comfortably. Got it. Okay. Comes next. Yeah. So, so, no Mandarin, Arabic was then coming, because then my first serious relationship was with an Arabic speaking woman, though she was also a fluent English speaker, so I never really learned from her, but it would learn out of love for her. Exactly. And, yeah, that was, that was, again, though, like, we broke up like not too long after I started and I did continue learning despite that, so we love that. And, um, most recently, I think that's, I think that's, then there's French, oh, French. Okay. So, so I'll say, then French, I've never, like, I haven't taken, I think I took one year in high school of French, but I took six and you surpassed me, like, fairly, immediately. In skill level. But I, it's quite similar to Spanish, and so I just went to France for a few months and then I was able to learn from that. And I have had French romances because both the Persian American girl and the Arabic speaking girl that I dated also were French speakers and actually spoke, like, French to me sometimes, so that, like, that's how I can say French was also a, a love language. Do you think like you could get around in France? Oh, a friend. About, without a doubt, I speak French a lot better than Arabic and, um, Chinese. Ridiculous. Like French, because it's so similar to Spanish, I would say French, I understand 100%, and like, my 100%, you could watch a movie in French and fully understand the film. Yeah. I wouldn't understand every word, but like, I would absolutely be able to follow it, like, follow what's happening. Wow. Can you start talking to me in French and I want to see if I understand it? Okay. Okay. I want to see if I can speak French or not, but I want to see if I can speak French. I want to see if I can speak French or not. I think you speak better than you think you do and you're just, like, you're just nervous. Like, it wasn't there a time when you did an exchange in France and you, like, had to speak. There was, but I didn't, because you, as you know, our French teacher spoke with a very unique accent. Yeah. And that's probably what she still does and it, it, um, it bled into all of our accents. And so everyone was, like, pretty made fun of by the French students for the way that we spoke. And so I really didn't want to speak. And so I didn't say a French word until the last day of our French exchange, which was over two weeks in France, um, but yeah, I don't, I think you, like, you spoke slowly enough for me to understand and usually French is really fast and, like, and all the words. Like, I think sometimes it's easier for people to understand someone who, like, their long, maternal, it's the same long, like, I speak English, I'm sweet American. And then, maybe, like, my French is easier for you than the French of someone in France. Yeah. Exactly. Your French, um, yours is easier to understand because you used your American, you speak English, so. Yeah. That's what you were saying. Exactly. Yeah. For the problem. Yeah. But yeah, I think you're, I think you're better than you have yourself credit for, um, like, used to read books in French. I could not read a book in French. You tried. Like yours. I used to be able to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, for sure. But I did go to Paris recently and I couldn't, there was not one thing I understood. I was trying to, like, read the street, no, I think it's, it's, it's easier. But I was saying for the, the public is like, I speak French with an American accent and my first language is English. So my syntax is all. kind of English-esque. So I think it's actually easier for Brooke to understand me than it would be for Brooke to understand a native French speaker. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But it's not my, it's not my best, my, yeah, my best is Spanish followed by Russian. And then I would say, I would say if we're ranking Spanish, Spanish is the best, then Russian. I would say the ones where I'm good, but not fluent, are like French, Hindi, and you didn't touch on Hindi. We're getting there. Okay. French, Hindi, and, um, what, what, first see, and then the ones where I'm just conversational are Arabic and Chinese. Got it. Um, Hindi was the most recent one, uh, well, aside from Bengali, which I just started, but, uh, it was the most recent one, um, due to, so I lived in India for about a year. There have been many wonderful Indian, Indian ladies in my life. Um, but the one who I learned Hindi from was, uh, she actually didn't speak English and still doesn't. So that was the lingua franca of our relationship, which lasted four months. It was, it was a Hindi-only relationship and that, that was a jumpstart. That was actually the first time I've ever had a relationship with someone who like, actually, that's not true. I was going to say who didn't speak any English, but like, Yulia, my, her sister also doesn't speak any English. But I would say it was, I would say it was the first time I had had a relationship in a language that I like really wasn't fluent in, uh, or wasn't comfortable in because like I done it in Spanish and Russian, but like I speak those a lot better. But when I, when I met this girl, like my Hindi was not, not good enough to have a relationship. And it got there quickly. How do you start a relationship with someone that where you don't speak the same language? Like how did you and her even begin to, like, understand that you were romantically interested in each other? Um, I kind of had a crush on her from afar and how I initiated it was we were having a conversation, like I had to, basically I was, I was in order to, I like to put myself in like extreme immersion situations. So in order to learn Hindi, I went to an extremely rural part of India, which is conduit district, Madhya Pradesh. Yeah. And I was volunteering for like a grassroots NGO there. She was one of the people that worked for the NGO. Um, so I had a crush on her. And I think how I first broached it was like I said to her, but I'm going to frame it like probably how it sounded to her. I was like my country marriage, girl girl marriage, boy boy marriage, my country. You in my country, you like girl girl marriage, you like boy boy marriage. And she was like, a question you were asking? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was trying to say in my very limited Hindi, would you prefer to marry a man or a woman if you had a good question? Yeah. And she said without hesitation, a girl. And I was like, oh, that's that's that's really, that's really interesting. But part of me just thought that really interesting to me. Part of me thought it's just because like in her society women don't have a lot of freedom. And I, by her society, I mean like rural, central Indian, the specific place, not all of India obviously. And I can't stress this enough. Like do you mind me saying her occupation? Yes. And I will I will provide a dead end. She was like the, and this is an amazing thing to be like this is no judgment at all. It's just more of a comment on like the different structures in which our societies operate. Like her occupation was the village basket weaver. Yes. And the adendum to that is that in India, there is a caste system, which is a you could Google it. But basically that was her families. It's too complicated and like loaded for me to explain. And I'm not even Indian. So I won't do it justice. That's why I said Google it. But her cast, which is basically her family's occupation, going back generations, was to weave bamboo like handicrafts. And so that is what she grew up doing. And she had to, she had to drop out of school when she was 12 years old in order to like weave baskets as of her family. But she was really smart and really like ambitious, which is what I liked about her. And she despite that, she was able to eventually like pursue her education and start working for it as you know, I love that Lindsey. And I think it's remarkable your ability to find the lesbian in any small rural area. Absolutely. And you should know of good. I mean, you should know of good. It's not rural, but still it's it's surprised. I wouldn't say it's a high focus lesbian area. No, it's certainly not. Yeah. So it really is a remarkable thing that a talent that you have. Yeah. Didn't like she not know that like it was an option for like to be with a woman. No, she was actually pretty woke about that. Something that like to give an idea of like what a rural environment she came from, like I went to Delhi with her, well, at some point in a relationship. And I like put, we got some like rice and we we got home. I put the rice of the microwave to heat it up for her. And she was like, is that, is that heating? Like she didn't know what the microwave was doing. So like that is the level. Or I was like, like, should we, yeah, I was whatever her name's locked me, I was like, Lux, me, you've never seen my country before. Um, and she was like, I was like, you've probably only seen my country in movies. And she's like, I've never seen your country in movies. And I was like, you never saw an American movie. She's like, no, I've only seen it in movies. So like it was very wide. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely a wide gap. Would you say that was like why I didn't mark out? I would say, I would say like in in a round about way. Yes. I think, I think it was one of those like, you fell in love with like the potential, not the person. And I think that like I deeply admire her and like her dreams and like all the amazing things she has and will achieve. But I think that like we're better as as friends than as, and you still are friends, right? And we still are friends. Actually, there's some sad news though, but that's a downer. Oh, her parents are forcing her to get married. Oh my god. Yeah. That's horrible. Yeah. To a man. I would assume. Yeah. Oh, that's really sad. It is not great. Oh, how she doing? She's not happy. Um, yeah. She, she was, I mean, I like, she was, she was strong. She has been, she's 30. She has been since she was the teenager, denying potential prospects. But then, um, basically there was like someone in her family had an un, like had an unmarried pregnancy and her family like freaked out and they're like all the unmarried women have to get married. And I was like, you, they can't force you like your financial independent, you do your own thing, like just just just don't do it. And she's like, they'll cut me out of life forever. It's like, and then speaking to like some friends who are more familiar with the context, I've realized that it's like quite complicated. And like there are sometimes even like violent repercussions for like women who would refuse marriage and the community like this. And it's just like, it's tough. Fortunately, she, they were gonna marry her to this guy who wouldn't even let her work. But then, she convinced them to let her marry this other guy instead. And they also convinced them to wait a few months. So like as of now, she's like promised to this guy, but, but, um, might not get married. And I just want to say also like for the, for the like fear, like whatever I'm talking about, like only, I'm only speaking about like Kallwa block, Kandwa district, Madhya Pradesh. I'm not speaking about all of India. Like no one should take this to mean that this is what India's like. This is what one specific community in India's like, but India is an incredibly diverse country. So I just wanted to put that out there. Thank you. That's pretty devastating. Yeah. Relax me. Yeah. Well, I'll, I'll ask you about that more offline. Oh fine. We can take that really. Hey guys, we want to take a break to think a sponsor of today's episode, article. I've been looking into getting a new bed. An article has so many options that feel modern, but still really timeless. It's the kind of furniture that makes your space look even more intentional without feeling overdone. Everything is designed to mix and match easily, so you don't have to stress about other things will go together. 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Okay. been two months. Happy two months. Thanks. Yeah, two months ago was our first date. Yeah. But what's cool about her is she also loves languages. And it's the first time that I've ever like dated someone who also likes languages. But we're still, we're getting to know each other. So we'll see how far it goes. But I'm trying to teach her Spanish and she's trying to teach me Bengali. So that's fun. It's Bengali her native language. That is her native language. She's from Calcutta so that's her native language. And or do you guys, does she speak English? She does. She does. Okay. Yeah. She speaks English. She speaks English well. Okay, that way. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice. Yeah. How's your Bengali? Polona. I knew that was coming. I knew I wasn't getting an answer in English. Very good ones. Polona means not good. Okay. Hey, but you at least you have that. Yeah. How many countries have you been to if you know? Oh, I actually do know, I believe. Wait, I actually have an app on my phone. So let me check. But the app is, so I have been to 66 UN countries. But that doesn't include Taiwan or Palestine. So I'd say 68. Why not Taiwan? It's not recognized by a lot of countries. I had no idea. Yeah. Because China Taiwan, I did a summer language program there and undergrad. Okay, you know, I get confused sometimes. Just a little bit all over the place. There are times where I'll just open my Find My Friends and it's like Lindsay is in Tajikistan. Okay. I'm waiting. I'm hoping to go to Pakistan. I'm actually waiting for my visa. Have you not been there yet? No, so that will be new. That will be fun and exciting. It will. You have opened, like there have been so many countries I didn't know existed until like Tajikistan. Tajikistan and there's another Stan that was Kyrgyzstan. Actually, I haven't been to Kyrgyzstan. But Kyrgyzstan, maybe. I don't, I actually, I think that's the first time I'm hearing of that right now. Okay. So I do think it was a different one. It's back in Stan. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you've been there. I have and cause I've Stan where I've been to I've been to Turkmenistan as well. I've been to all the Stan's except Kyrgyzstan and Pakistan and Pakistan and Afghanistan. But they're usually not considered part of the Stan's. Can I ask what is it that draws you to the stands? Because I feel like that most people, if it's fair for me to say like wouldn't be like, that's where I want to go. Yeah. It wasn't really, it wasn't really, it wasn't really drawn to them. I went to Tajikistan for the first time because I have been twice. I've spent probably a cumulative six months in Tajikistan in my lifetime. Why? Why? So the first first four months was a study abroad program because I wanted to study Persian. And you can't as an American study Persian in Iran or Afghanistan. So that's why. It was the only thing I could study Persian. And then subsequently after that, I got a job working for this like scholarship program, which gave scholarships to students from former Soviet countries to study as exchange students in the United States. And they sent you to where you had language skills. So because I spoke Russian in Persian, they sent me to a lot of those countries because they speak Russian. And I remember that you had a romance with one of your coworkers, right? I had a crush unrequited on one of my co-workers. She just recently got married in Canada to a man. Yes, damn. That's okay. I did, I did, though, I did travel through four countries and I did want to like find a woman in every country during that job. That was part of my deal. Remember, there was all just Sveta, the Ukrainian who you love with the brain. Okay. Yeah. I hope she's okay. I genuinely do too. We fell out of touch, but yeah. I'm sad to hear that about you and Sveta. Are there any of the countries that you've been to that you're like, I have no desire to return? I mean, I think this is what I always say. Like, I don't think there's anywhere in the world that like if someone gave me a plane ticket, I wouldn't go because I just love traveling so much. Like, I would go anywhere. I think there are definitely places that like, I definitely wouldn't go unless. There was like, I actually recently went to Budapest with my friend and was very overwhelmed. I feel like Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. I've been to both of those countries twice. And like, I think I've spent more time in them than like anyone. I mean, then I think it's enough. I wouldn't really go out of my way to go again to Tajikistan or Uzbekistan. I was very underwhelmed by Costa Rica as well. Some of my favorites have been Mexico, India. Those are those I could go back again and again and again and again, because I just think there's so much there's so much cool stuff there. Also was a huge fan of Iran when I went there. Yeah. Do you want to talk about that? I can talk about that. Yeah. My family was not super excited about, well, I knew they wouldn't be excited about me going to Iran. So I just told them I was going to Costa Rica. Put someone in a difficult position by telling them we were going to Iran and not to tell anyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hello. But you were, I had, no, I had a group chat that you were in broke of like my siblings and like my close friends who was aware that I was in Iran and I would text them updates. But my parents most notably were not aware. That was genuinely scary for me. I had a gay Jewish person. Yeah. Yeah. American as well. A gay Jewish American. Yeah. But my understanding is that was one of your most positive travel experiences. That was one of my best travel experiences. I have no and like obviously government of Iran is very bad to its people. But the people of Iran, I like have no shortage of amazing things to say. The sites there, the food there was, it was amazing. It's great lens. You kind of already said this, but I was just going to ask like, where next? Pakistan. Pakistan. Yeah. Most, most immediately. And I think, I think, well, I do want to visit every country in the world before I die. So is that possible? Probably. Like technically people with American passports aren't allowed to go to North Korea right now. But like I think at my lifetime that will probably change or maybe I'll get another passport. Like I think it's it's something that will you have. I don't know. I mean, I live in London now. Like I could get a UK passport if I stayed here long enough. Can you go to North Korea with a UK passport? I haven't looked into that. Okay. I'm not super pressed about it. Like I kind of think that in my lifetime, I'll see some sort of change whether it's to the government in North Korea or to their policy of not allowing US citizens. I've never been denied a visa. Okay. And I've gotten some really hard ones like for those who know Turkmenistan is really hard. Russia is not easy. I've gotten it several times. China. Cuba. Cuba is not hard. But yeah. Is there anywhere you like haven't been besides Pakistan that you really want to go? I mean, out anywhere. Like I would go anywhere. I think I haven't I haven't traveled too much. I've traveled it decent amount of East Africa, but I haven't been to West Africa at all. So that would be nice. I have been I've not been to like certain countries in South America. I'd really like to go to Venezuela. And I have a Venezuelan friend. So maybe I'll go with. I haven't been there. Yeah. I think I would like to go with a local person. And it was only like in the last few years that I have a close enough friend that I could go with her. Love. Yeah. Okay. Well, that ends the travel portion of my notes. So moving on to just kind of like our shared experience at school. I have I've spoken a lot about meeting for worship. And I've told the story of Miguel Michele coming out as Mike. But you know, a lot of people like came out as as gay, including you. And do you want to like speak to that experience like what it was like for you? And like I've when you you're supposed to stand up at meeting for worship, if you're moved by the light to do so. And I guess I'm kind of just wondering one, were you moved by the light to like how did it feel being on the on the coming out? And three, how do you look back at the experience? Whatever you really want to say about it. Okay. I will say that I didn't know it was coming. I didn't know you were going to do it. And I was sitting on the facing bench. Which means there's like all these benches in our auditorium that just like our normal seats that face the stage. And then there's the facing bench where there's one bench in front of the stage that looks out at the audience. So I was kind of looking out at at Lindsey when she stood up and that take it away. Yeah. Well, I remember there weren't very many I think what is hard for people to understand when I tell this when we talk about this is like how much things have changed since 2012 when this happened like at the time that I came out gay marriage was not legal in Pennsylvania like and now it's like hard to imagine but yeah in our in our high school There were there weren't that many people that were out I remember like it was one of the most progressive high schools in the area And they wanted to do a presentation to the middle schoolers about LGBT and everyone was like it's too soon like so yeah And this is a while to think yeah, how much it's changed And like that we had the gay straight alliance like that's what it was called yeah So yeah, it had and but I remember there was there was a boy who was out I think I was no one was out in our great as lesbian There were some girls who were out as by there was at least one that I can think of who who was in a relationship with a woman so like Streetcreds why do I remember everyone coming out at meeting for worship But like I can't actually think of like who did am I is it in my control? I feel like the people who came out just came out at meeting for worship And maybe that's why I did too because I was like you have to I'm not sure yeah It was like I like the right like you weren't gay until you came out of me right right. Yeah, like I when I think about it I'm like I don't know even why I did that like it's not really like me my personality to do that But maybe maybe you weren't moved by the light Maybe you were just like eyes. This is something I have to do. Yeah And and my but then there's also my brother who did come out as gay as well at age 12 and has has only dated women subsequently Right A formal retractment. I don't remember. No, he never did. He's only he's only dated women If you ask him about it, he still is like yes, I'm still gay and I'm like make it make sense Yeah, you have an amazing collection of LGBT siblings. Yeah, three out of four. Mm-hmm three for four three for four and the other He's straight, but it's funny because the one straight brother is like well, okay to be fair like One of my brothers has only dated women, but because he did come out as gay in middle school I do treat him as part of the LGBT. I think that the treating him as part of the LGBT is more than fair Um, and then yeah, my my sister's not did you know that my sister's now doing doing lesbian? Oh, absolutely Yeah, yeah, she was close friends because oh, oh, okay. Yeah. She was doing bye for a while But then she realized that she's lesbian. Yeah, yeah, and Daniel my brother the youngest is straight But his type is like very like alt like armpit hair green hair short hair kind of androgynous, so Like I hope that he'll go for a she day and thus we can be four for four. Yeah, if that's not But like if he's dating a non-binary person. Mm-hmm. Does that make him? Part of the LGBT community. That's a that's a hot topic I've spoken to him about it and he said that he doesn't think it does Because he he's like I don't want to like he's like at the end of the day like even though I am attracted to some people who Identifies non-binary like I think like I'm attracted perhaps to the pieces of them that I perceive as feminine and he's like to say that I was queer feels like I'm like adopting a label that like isn't making sense for me and like for example He like I couldn't see him being into someone who was not binary assigned male a birth got it. Okay That makes sense Yeah, okay back to meeting for worship back to me for worship So I remember there was a boy who was out who I was friends with who we were all friends with I called him the night before Matt. Oh, and he had come. I forgot he came out at our beach meeting for worship Yeah, that was really yeah, yeah So I remember my heart was beating so fast cuz he didn't tell anyone yet. This was the first time he was saying it and Didn't he come out as by yes Yes, I remember he said that and I was like oh so close So close I think he was only calc and or shoes though Right, let's let's not make let's not make mouth that's out of more hills Right on the snake eyes But I called him the night before and I was like Matt I was because I had Though I had not come out publicly I could come out to you broke I'm like I had to come out to my close friends right prior to meeting for worship, but I called Matt and I was like I'm thinking of it, but I'm not sure if I'm ready and he's like I don't think anyone's ever ready I think you just have to have to dive in and so I just dove in and Another thing that I'll say is like it has been like both beautiful It has been beautiful to see like how many people from our high school have subsequently come out But I'm like also like wish you guys had come out when There was like three of us like that would have like it would have been nice, you know, but I Everyone's on their own journey for worship Or a given like Right How did you feel when you did it? I think I felt embarrassed. I think I like had some internalized homophobia like I was like does everyone need to know that and like I remember I did have some internalized homophobia Like there was a teacher at our school who was who was lesbian and who was married to woman And I remember like I was like oh well like every time someone looks at her They're gonna think of her having sex with a woman and like now that's what people could think when they look at me But whatever that was internalized homophobia like yeah, I don't care now if people think that that's great Yeah, if people think that hell yeah, yeah, absolutely you want me to send a video. I will nice I like I really hate to think about Like as much as our school had its problems like I'd hate to think about us going anywhere else truly Yeah, or neurodivergent selves. I think I wouldn't have been I say that all the time I say like I wasn't bullied, but like I would have been at any other school. I Right, and I just I don't even like I'd yeah, it really. Oh, I don't like to think about it What this is a bit of a non-sequitor, but I guess I I there is an important part of our early connection Was and it is touching on neurodivergence was when I would have genuine Sicknesses and third grade and you would go home And I think that speaks to the can the link Yeah, the bond you have to understand To clarify breaking my arm like I broke my arm and Broke went home because they're on her I had to I was sick. I did go home. This was like this makes more sense, but like you had thrown up Yeah, and then I was like I can't be here Cannot be here you say which was shocking, but yeah, I went home you threw up I went home and you broke your arm and I went home Yeah, and I I would assume you went home when you broke your arm Um, I don't actually remember if I went home, but I do remember like we did not go to the emergency room immediately because I remember I came downstairs for dinner that night and I was like Kradling my arm and my mom was like Lindsey does your arms still hurt from when you fell and I was like yes And she was like, oh, that's not okay. Yeah, I went to the doctor and it was broken. I'm most so jealous of your cast. Yeah They're also People did think we were gay to get there. Yeah, they did. Yeah I'm never beating the gay allegations Yeah, it's not like of course Even didn't your didn't your dad wasn't he like if you and Lindsey are our partners like I would I thought it's okay with me Well, he whatever I mean my dad is always like it's tell me anything like it's okay to be gay and there was a time in high school when I think I was really depressed and eat my mom was like Let me know if if you're gay if you guys and it's okay But My dad recently confessed that he thought I was gay because we would all take naps together And I was like and we were just sleeping. Yeah, yeah, yeah But yeah, I think like as like an Older man in the early 2000s. He assumed like since you were a lesbian and my best and my best friend I was a lesbian. Yeah, which is totally fair I mean, yeah, I think it's it's in a way It's surprising that those rumors weren't weren't stronger. I agree the the key piece of the puzzle here is there's a photo of us Oh, are you gonna tell about the flowers? I was gonna speak about how about you start? How about you start? Okay, I love this was I had it. Oh, this is probably revealed to if she sees this um something tells me she won't but You know, it tells me she's not tuning in, but you never reach out if you're tuning in. I won't even care So there was a girl in the great above us who I had a crush on and She was dating a boy So I did make a card with her entire name in the Superman S's A never ending chain of Superman S's Wrote all the reasons why I thought she was special cut some fresh flowers for my garden and they had a conversation with her at this point I don't think so. Yeah, we were in a club together, so like we had interacted peripherally through that totally but I cut some fresh flowers from the garden, had a friend give it to her. She tweeted, "This is so nice, thanks so much." So that was sweet. But then as my way of secretly revealing this to her, we've even gone into my stalker, but that's okay for next time. Has my way of revealing this to her, I posted a prom picture with Brooke in front of the flowers. No, I didn't post it 'cause that would have been too obvious. I made Brooke post the picture of us standing in front of the flowers that I had cut and given to her. Am I making this up or were you actually holding me like a baby in the photo? Or were we just standing there? I think we're just standing there, but I do think there might be another photo where I'm holding you like a baby. Okay, yeah. So you were hoping that she would make the connection, the flowers behind you, or the same flowers in the bouquet. Yeah, hopefully. Which like, yeah, that's pretty amazing, Lindsay. That's pretty damn amazing. Any other, and I don't know if you're comfortable speaking about this, but any other grand gestures you would like to speak on. I mean, yeah, like, what other, what, what, what, what a night? I mean, like, do you, like, do we talking about wheel for are we talking about like romantic gestures? I was thinking about curtains. Oh, yeah, I can't know why not. Yeah. Take off the reins. So I did, I did, as we know, I was in love with my Spanish teacher. And I did, we did a school wide, so entire school, students, teachers, secret Santa, secret snow person. And I was like, I need to get my Spanish teacher for that. So I spoke to my, I thought she wasn't even your teacher at this point. No, I, no, I, this is the crazy thing. I broke in ninth grade, I got her organically, like, pick her name organically. But this wasn't. And then in a, and then in 11th grade, I rigged it. And in 11th grade, you walked your 12th, 12th, 12th. And 12 she was, yeah. Okay. So what did you get her in ninth grade organically? Oh, what did you get her? Yeah, what was your gift? Recies and I made her a card. And you weren't in love with her yet? No, not yet. She was just like the hot mill from the oatmeal video. Yeah, okay. So then when I was in love with her, yeah. So I, I did go to my friend who is the student council president and say, I'm gonna need to pick her name. Is there anything you can do? And he said, well, we give envelopes out to every home room. So I can make sure she's in your envelope, but I can't make sure you pick her name 'cause no one can do that. I was like, that's fun. Put her in my envelope. I'll take, I'll take it from there. I will take it from there. (laughs) So in my home room, I announce if anyone has teacher beep and teacher beep, they wrote my college recommendations. So I'd love to do something nice for them. Let me know when we can trade. Knowing fully well, that only one of those two was gonna be in the envelope. Pretty damn brilliant. Yep, pretty, that's how I used my intelligence at that age. So got her. I did devise a very detailed scavenger hunt, which involved like a secret alphabet and decoding messages. Yep. And once you, and that was like clues over 10 days and once you finally decoded, and they were like references from all the books that she had taught. And like once you finally, pretty indebted, I'd say. Yeah. And she knew it was me too, like there was a moment when we were in the school cafeteria. Brooke, do you remember this, right? I don't know. Well, I was in the school cafeteria and she came up right behind me and was like, what are you doing? She was like, I don't remember that. She was like, I know that it's you, but I don't know what you're doing. And I was like. And you were getting me, getting me. Yeah. Fun fact, we are still in touch. We're still friends. Oh, I mean, the way that you weaseled yourself into her life was incredible. And I haven't had feelings for her to clarify since high school, but I did do a master class. So I, but by the end of decoding everything, the final word was Cortinas, which means curtains in Spanish. And then I, as she discovered Cortinas on the final day, she also walked into her classroom where I had pre-installed custom-made curtains on all of her windows, which had iron on patches from all of her favorite pieces of film and literature. And the curtains, she was like, she had been kind of like complaining about the light at one point, right? Yeah, something like just like the glare and like needing a curtain or something. And so you had actually fashioned her a custom pair pre-installed. Yep, yep, yep. So, and then yeah, we also weaseled. Brooke was actually a babysitter of teacher's children. And so I weaseled my way into babysitting her child as well because I told Brooke that she had to pretend to be sick so that I could babysit. And then once I weaseled my way in, I was just a standing babysitter, baby. Yeah. Yeah, you did some amazing work. Yep, yep, weaseled and we're still still in good touch. No, and the great thing about hers that like she would love all of this is really kind of funny. We've never talked about it. And I always wonder like when is it like when should I tell her? Or like she knows, baby, oh, she knows. Yeah, I think she knows, but like I would be, I don't know. Well, yeah, she definitely knows. I loved like, I walked over to Lindsay's house all the time, just like unannounced. And one time I went and just walked like through the back and at Lindsay's pool, our teacher was just laying their sunbathing and I was like, hey miss, miss bleep, what are you doing here? Just hanging out. OK. Good to see you. All right, Lindsay, I think that's really all I have for you. All right. Do you have any last words that you want to share? What last words? No, I think no. Do you have anything about like work that's important that you like want to say or not at all? OK, so basically I do I work, yeah, I work for Human Rights Watch and I do advocacy, which basically means they put out a lot of human rights reports. And so we try to make those human rights reports have an impact in the real world. And I'm based in London. So we do that mostly with the UK government, but in all sorts of areas. And I will say one area that I have been very disheartened to see like lack of interest in both from governments and from the public is the war in Sudan. So if anyone is interested in like becoming politically active around a cause that doesn't get enough attention, I would say read our recent reporting on Sudan. Hey, send me that linked lens and we can blast it out in the bio. Yeah, he's like, yeah, OK, well, I love you. Thanks for coming and thanks for having me. And next time you come back, we can dive more into some other interests that you've had. Yeah, and I think we haven't dived it all into, yeah, into some of my detective work. So that's maybe yeah, I think we can do detective work for for the next episode. OK, all right. Thank you, everyone. Have a good day. Have a good day. Bye bye. Bye.