33. Identity and Labels

(upbeat music) - Hola, welcome to Dismantling Diet Culture. Fuck being Callevita, the only Spanish anti-diet podcast that teaches you from a sociological lens, feminism, and intuitive eating coaching to Dismantle Diet Culture. I'm your host, Dr. Ortence Jimenez, and I am passionate about Dismantling Diet Culture and helping you heal your relationship with food and your body. I'm a mother, daughter, co-mother, a amiga, community member, professor, health coach, and published author. On this show, I share my personal experience with diet culture, tips and strategies, and educational content to help you understand diet culture and systems of oppression so that you can have the tools to challenge diet culture. Current and future generations do not deserve to inherit your diet culture trauma, and I'm here to help you. If you're on a mission to heal your body and food traumas and embody your authentic self, unapologetic, welcome to Dismantling Diet Culture. Fuck being Callevita. - Bienvenidos a Dismantling Diet Culture, fuck being Callevita. This is your host, Dr. Ortence Jimenez. In today's episode, we're going to go ahead and put a hold on our intuitive eating principles so that we can have a conversation about identity and labels. We are celebrating Latinx Spanish Heritage Month from September 15th to October 15th. Caviar here that we celebrate being Latina Latinx all year round. Nonetheless, this month really highlights the contributions and challenges and struggles that the Latinx community is facing throughout the United States. And I want to take the opportunity today to perhaps begin this conversation with you about identity and labels. As a sociologist, we argue, right? And say that the language that we use, the words that we use are very powerful. The importance of language to engage in identity, like what are you, how do you identify yourself? So we transmit meaning through language and the words that we use and the labels that we use have a lot of power for ourselves, right? And the way that we identify. And you might be thinking, how does labels and identity have anything to do with diet culture? It has everything to do with diet culture because diet culture is systems of oppression, right? If we're looking at my definition, systems of oppression. That are enforced by institutions. And secondly, another way that this is connected to diet culture is understanding the role of white supremacy on identity, as well as the impact that race and labels and how folks have been racialized throughout history, the impact that it has on the body. So I think that body liberation is as much, it has as much to do with the types of labels that we embrace and that we use, because that is part of our body liberation to self-identify. And to use, if you wanna use any labels, the best describes who you are and if you change your mind or you're at a different point in your life later on and you use a different one, that is you, that is uniquely your own journey and that is your own way to embrace the label if you do, okay? So I wanna begin by providing a little, telling you the labels, okay? These are pan-ethnic labels and what this means, these are overarching labels, homogeneous labels, such as Hispanic, Latina, Latino, Latinx, Latine, they are homogeneous ethnic labels. Are they problematic? Absolutely, because they're lumping people from different backgrounds, from different countries, from different lived experiences and also their contact and their socialization and racialization in the United States is also very unique. So that is definitely one of the big shortcomings and criticisms of using pan-ethnic labels such as Hispanic and Latina. Another shortcoming or criticism is that when we're using ethnic, pan-ethnic labels, that they are harming because it's ignoring racism, it's ignoring anti-blackness within the Hispanic, within the Latino community and it creates hierarchies, bodies. Really, bodies are stratified in our society, right? Remember, the ideal is a thin body versus someone in a bigger body. So bodies are racialized. And so, right, not only in terms of their size, but also their phenotype, their skin color. And by using pan-ethnic labels as Hispanic and Latino, we're ignoring indigeneity, we're ignoring African ancestry. And in many ways, you're upholding, right, mestizaje, you're upholding these colonial language. So it's super complicated. I'm here to tell you that this is messy, this is not easy, it's confusing and it can actually lead to a lot of conflict between people in talking about labels. So I just want to normalize this conversation and I want to normalize that at the end of the day, you get to decide what you want to use. No, it's así de fácil, okay? Entonces vamos a empezar con el label Hispanic. Hispanic was a concerted effort by the federal government and other institutions, such as education and the media, specifically the Spanish-speaking media in trying to capture the Spanish-speaking population in the United States. So they coined this term of Hispanic to categorize people from Spanish-speaking backgrounds. This is at the 1970s. And the criticism with Hispanic is that it is upholding mestizaje, European ancestry, while denying, dismissing, and erasing indigenous and African ancestry. So many folks don't use Hispanic and use instead Latino or Latina. When we think of the label Latino and Latina, this is a little bit more socially accepted, but nonetheless, it's still a pan-ethnic term. And by using Latino, Latina, what this does is also solidifies these binaries, right? The binary of masculine and feminine. And this is where Latinx comes in. Latinx with an X to acknowledge the gender diversity, gender identity, gender expression, to acknowledge sexuality, that there are LGBTQ folks, that there are gender non-conforming folks, that gender is fluid. And by using Latinx, you move away from the binary of Latino, Latina, okay? So now we're bringing in gender and sexuality, right? So are these terms again, and labels homogeneous? Absolutely. Do they dismiss and erase the diversity within groups? Absolutely they do. Okay, however, Latinx, Latina, Latina, tends to be more widely accepted in the United States than Hispanic. So I use, I'm coming to you as one first and foremost, as just a regular person, right? Who wears different hats. So I'm coming here as a person who has been racialized in the United States, 'cause because I am a Mexican immigrant, I grew up in the United States. I have family in Mexico. And I understand that the label that I will use will depend in what context I'm in. Who is my audience? Who am I speaking to? So I use labels interchangeably. How do I identify myself? First and foremost, I ended up based on my nationality, my ethnic background as Mexican. So I am a Mexican immigrant. I also use Latina because cisgender, but I also use Latinx because I am queer. And so for me, using Mexican, using Latina or Latinx, they're interchangeably. However, depending on who I am with, if I'm working in the immigrant community and the undocumented community with farm workers, indigenous farm workers, a lot of them don't understand or don't even use Latinx. Many, based on my experience in the community over the decades, many use Hispanic and Latino. Soy ispano, soy Latino. So I'm not there to tell them, well, you shouldn't be using these terms. You should be using these labels, right? That's why we gotta be super careful and not imposing our own views on what labels people should use and criticize them. Because this is what I see when I tell you that identity and labels leads to a lot of attention and conflict and disagreement. (speaking in foreign language) It's a label, you should be using this, your pepper trading, what supremacy, et cetera, et cetera. Their points may be valid, but at the end of the day, you have the power in how you identify yourself. When other folks engage in discussions that these are better than these labels, (speaking in foreign language) right, which is notions of superiority, putting these labels in a moral hierarchy and again, perpetuating binaries, we don't wanna do that with identity, okay? So do I have an answer for you? No, you get to decide. But understand there, it's not a black and white, there's like this great area, this in-betweenness and messiness of pan-ethnic identity, okay? So now folks, if you are not from a Hispanic, Latinx, Latino background, it is important for you to ask the people that you're with, like how do you identify yourself ethnically and racially? Like, do you use any labels? Like you wanna ask folks, you don't wanna impose your own understanding and your own label. (speaking in foreign language) Maybe they wanna be referred to their ethnic background, to their nationality, right? So always ask folks, how do you identify? Like, do you use any labels to use an ethnic label? Like, what is it? Like, right, that is important, okay? Another thing that I wanna emphasize, part of our liberation and I think like body sovereignty and body liberation are intricately connected, it is like the self-determination, right? The self-determination to live in your body, to decide what you wanna do with your body, how you wanna adorn your body, how you wanna show up to the world in your body. It has also everything to do on how you wanna be, how you wanna represent yourself and how you wanna identify yourself. That is part of body liberation. Is this hard? Absolutely, because externally or society isn't posing, yes, these pan-ethnic labels (speaking in foreign language) Like, you do you, you do you. I know that this is not easy to say because there's so much tension around identity and labels. But regardless of which one you use, if you use Hispanic, if you use Latina, Latino, Latinx, Latine, it does, you decide which one you wanna use. But we gotta recognize, of course, the limitations, right? We need to have a commitment to addressing the internalized anti-blackness in our communities, to address that internalized anti-indigeneity in our communities. That is a fact, like, we can't not deviate from that because at the end of the day, all these pan-ethnic labels that are lumping so many people into one category where there's so much diversity, right? We gotta recognize a limitation of that and how it can actually perpetuate and be harmful, right? It can perpetuate racism and it can also dismiss and ignore racism in our communities. You see where I'm going? Porque en muchas maneras es un proceso de mestizaje with the Hispanic label. And in many ways, también Latino and Latina and Latinx, it can erase African ancestry and indigeneity, right? So it's so important to also ask people, like what is your nationality? How do you identify ethnically, okay? We have a lot of work to do to unpack or anti-blackness or anti-indigeneity within ourselves and also within our families. Esa es una responsabilidad que todos tenemos, okay? Now, I also wanna invite you, please, don't judge other folks who feel and who embrace Hispanic or Latino identity. Eso es algo individual at the individual level, at the micro level. That is how they wanna identify. When we get into judgments and morality, that is part of diet culture. It enforces diet culture and enforces systems of oppression. You see what I'm saying? And at the same time, right? The other argument is, well, you're enforcing white supremacy. You're enforcing mestizaje by using Hispanic or Latino and so forth. That can be the criticism. That can be something that people may tell you. And you have a choice on how you wanna respond. And at the end of the day, you don't need to justify. You do not need to explain to others your existence or the labels that you use, right? That is your individual choice, okay? Let's move away from judging others. Porque una persona que dice usa Latino or Latina instead of Hispanic, porque es mucho mejor y X, Y, and Z, what are you doing? Because you also lead people to feel shame, to feel shame about what labels they're using to identify themselves. We wanna move away from judgment and shame and actually be empathetic and try to understand where people are coming from, okay? Another point that I wanna make is that, again, these pan-ethnic labels, they can be used interchangeably depending who is your audience and who are you with. And I see this a lot with my own students, right? Where at one point they use Hispanic and then they'll use Latina and guess what? Then they use Chicana, like I'm Chicana. Like I see how my own students are trying to understand pan-ethnicity. They're trying to understand like the external societal, structural forces that creates this pan-ethnic identity, right? But at the same time, they're trying to make sense of their own identity as first or even second generation. Many of my students are of Mexican ancestry, so they're Mexican-American. And I see that shift with students and who am I to tell my students? Well, actually, you know, a couple of years ago when I met you, you use Hispanic and now you're using Latino, what's going on? Like, no! They're forming their identity. They're forming their identity and they're also exploring this pan-ethnic label. And it is really up to them. That's the power. That is part of body sovereignty and body liberation. You get to decide. But of course, remember, again, acknowledging the limitations of this. I mentioned the term the label Chicano. And we could be Chicano and it could also be Chicanex with an X. Again, it's acknowledging the gender diversity, the gender fluidity, gender non-conforming folks and also moving away from heteronormative language, moving away from binaries, okay? So with Chicano or Chicanex, this is a political and cultural term. This is a political and cultural term that emerged during the Chicano movement of the 1960s. It was a era where Mexican-American youth are coming together and basically saying, you know, we have historically been disenfranchised, politically, economically, education, right? It was a political movement. Political, but it was also a cultural movement where Mexican-Americans dijeron ya basta, so much shaming for being Mexican, for, you know, the derogatory terms used for Mexicans, right? As wetbacks, as greasers, as uneducated. They were misrepresented in the media. We continue to be misrepresented, okay? And then it's a cultural shift. It's also reaffirming your indigeneity and being proud, like brown is pride, right? Brown is beautiful. It's like reaffirming and reclaiming your indigeneity. Was there anti-blackness? Absolutely, that was, absolutely, that was present. It was a political progressive, anti-racist and rooted in indigenous identity. For who? For people of Mexican ancestry, okay? So that's Chicanex, that's being Chicano. It is a political consciousness. Creo que con esto los voy a dejar. I think this is all I wanna share for now. We will continue to talk about this a little bit more, right? If you are left confused, that is completely normal, okay? Let's normalize that it is not clear-cut. It is not this black or white. Let's move away from binaries when we're thinking about identity, when we're thinking about ethnic labels, right? Pan-ethnicity. Who has the right to decide what label you should use? You, you get to decide. What I don't want folks to engage if you're listening is to impose, yeah? To impose your own views on other people and make them feel bad for the label that they're using. Because then you're setting yourself off to like this is morally better, right? And that is part of diet culture and white supremacy. And is there white supremacy within these pan-ethnic labels? Claro que también lo hay. I feel like we can't escape white supremacy. Either we use them or we don't. Right? Así es que con esto los dejo. Thank you so much for joining me in this episode. I will see you next time on Dismantling Diet Culture. Fuck bien, calladita. Nos vemos. Muchas gracias por acompañarme in Dismantling Diet Culture. Fuck bien, calladita podcast. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really like it. If you leave me a review on Apple Podcasts, you become eligible for a free 30-minute coaching session. That's right, así como escuchaste, one free session. Once you leave your review, you can screenshot it and email it to me and I'll send you a link to sign up. If you didn't like it, don't worry, así está bien. Follow me on social media, on Instagram and TikTok, at Dr. Ortencia Jiménez.