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Speaker 3TXU Energy. Energy for everything. Because, like, I've been in and out of this program for a while, right? Like, 2017 I came in for the first time through a series of DUIs that led me to jail, which led me to treatment, which was Addiction Rehab Toronto. And, you know, I've struggled since then, like 60 days out, 30 days out. And finally, in 2025, I kind of hit my bottom. I came, like, crawling back. I was at, like, the jumping-off point, you know?
Speaker 4Dude, it's tough when you go back out with a head full of recovery, right? Like, a belly full of recovery, they say. I've been there, you know? I relapsed after seven years, and I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it. Because it's, like, the level of shame that comes in when you know what you should be doing, and that's a dangerous word, should, but you know how good it could be, and you've got people calling your phone and just checking up on you, but then in your head, at least for me, it's like, they fucking, they're talking about me relapsing, right? They're a fucking idiot. Like, he went out, and these are the stories we start to spin in our head, and it keeps us out there longer.
Speaker 3But all they want is to help us. I know. The guilt and shame, right? Like, comes back, and that, yeah, that's exactly, the first thing I do in the past, like, when I've relapsed, is get rid of my phone, which is dangerous. Completely get rid of it. Completely get rid of it. Could we throw it off a bridge, or what? I don't want any, if I do whatever, like, either I'll sell it, or I'll give it away to somebody, or I'll leave it somewhere, or I'll break it. Just to avoid those people reaching out. Because the only people I know now are in recovery, right? Or my family. Like, those are my only friends. So it's like, the last person I want to talk to is, you know, my sponsor, or people that are trying to help me when I don't want the help, you know? And it's a dark place to be, because eventually the time comes where I'm like, okay, I need to come back, and let's try this again. There's a- There's a-
Speaker 4There's no other option for us, right? Like, you said it perfectly. It's jails, institutions, death. Death, right. Or recovery. Like, it's- I knew I needed to come back here. Yeah. In fact, you know, my- I remember my wife, when I was in my relapse, she kicked me out, and I was living in Airbnbs for a long time, because just didn't want to surrender, right? Yeah. Wanted to do some more research, wanted to have some more fun, whatever. For me, it was the hill to come back to recovery was like this mountain. I always say that. Yeah. I just- I would think about it every day, be like, fuck, I got- Recovery's always an option, but like, it's so fucking hard. I know. It's too hard. I'm just gonna keep using. Yeah. And then, so my wife brought me a piece of recovery literature that we all know too well, and she would leave it on my counter at the Airbnb. Smart girl. And then she would fuck off, right? Because she's like, I can't watch you kill yourself. Yeah. And I would stare at that thing every day. And I knew that there was a place for me to go after. I knew, right? I never opened the book. I never- But I knew what was fucking in there. Yeah. And it's not just words on a page. No. That book, for me, symbolizes a life. Yeah, absolutely. A program, a spiritual program.
Speaker 3They say that that book is, besides like the Bible. So the Bible is the number one book bought that's never read. And that book that you're talking about is the second most bought book in the world that's never read. So most of the time, it just sits on the shelf, you know? Collecting dust. Collecting dust. Or giving away to somebody. Or giving away to somebody, yeah.
Speaker 4Cool, bro. So I want to, I'm interested. I'm happy that you're opening up about this. Yeah. Because I think since I've relapsed, I've found that I have, I feel like I have an obligation to like tell people how not to relapse. Yeah, for sure. But also like, we have an experience that people need to hear. Yeah. So can you walk me through, walk us through the original time coming into recovery? Yeah. Like what that, you mentioned DUIs and stuff.
Speaker 5Yeah.
Speaker 4And then, yeah, and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll tell you like my story pretty much. So Anthony, I was born in like St. Catharines, January 11th, 1989. I ended up moving to Burlington when I was 19 with my parents. I was born in St. Catharines with my mom and my stepdad. My dad's one of us. He's an alcoholic. I haven't talked to him in like 20 years, actually. But he was a great father growing up, you know. Trained me how to play lacrosse. I played high level lacrosse and was pretty good at it. All sports. If you put a stick in my hand, I was pretty, pretty good with it. You know, I knew what to do. Athlete of the year, all these kinds of things. And I got diagnosed with ulcerative colitis at a young age when I was playing lacrosse. Sorry, what is that? It's like Crohn's disease. So it was, you know, it took a toll on my life. I had to quit playing lacrosse. I had to stop going to school. It got really bad. And I was introduced to painkillers for the first time at a young age. And I remember just taking more than I should have and just feeling like bliss, you know. So I think that's kind of like where my addiction started if I think back. Yeah. I had left around that time. I stopped playing lacrosse. I dropped out of school, started hanging around the wrong people. And eventually I got better and moved up to Burlington with my mom and stepdad. And from there, you know, I wasn't really using as much, but I was like a weekend warrior type deal. So I would start on Friday and end on Sunday, but I'd go heavy. You know, I don't know if we can be drug specific. Yeah, yeah, go. Yeah, yeah, okay. So I'd be doing coke. I think it has a purpose. Yeah, yeah. Lots of cocaine, opiates, and alcohol was like my main thing. I wouldn't do drugs or coke without drinking, right? And got into an unhealthy relationship from there. And just toxic. I moved her into my parents' basement. And we ended up, you know, just fighting a lot. Not physically, but like emotionally and mentally just destroying each other type deal thing. And, you know, within, from 19 to 27, I ended up, you know, going to jail a few times, hanging around the wrong people. The drugs got worse. The situations I was in became more dangerous. You know, the fighting between me and her got a lot worse as well. And I went to jail after. So I got my first DUI when I was 21. And I got my license back, I think, after three years. And when I was 27, I got my second DUI. And as I was fighting my second DUI, they give you your license back until you're charged because I wanted to fight it. I didn't want to have two DUIs on my record. And I caught my third. I saw, you know, the cherries behind me on the cop car. And I don't know what I was thinking. I was obviously out of it, high on coke, drunk, out of my mind. And I pedaled to the metal and I ran. I ran from them. I ended up crashing on the highway going like 180 miles. Miles per hour, spun out, sorry, spun out. And I ran. And then I woke up like in a ditch in Stoney Creek with like 20 dogs and 20 cops around me. They took me to jail. And I think a couple of weeks later or a month later or something, my lawyer came and he said, you can either stay in here or you can go to Addiction Rehab Toronto. And I went to Addiction Rehab Toronto and that was 2017 for the first time. So you were in jail for a month up until that point? I think it was like three weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Which is the longest amount of time in jail I had ever done. It's too much time. Yeah. Scary.
Speaker 4What was that like?
Speaker 3I actually ended up doing weekends after that as part of my sentence, which was scarier. But I'll talk about like that. Like that was, I went to Maplehurst. And in Maplehurst, it's all individual cells. So like you have one cell. So me and you would share a cell. Whereas Thor, where I did my weekends, it's all open custody. So there's like 20 bunks on this side and 20 bunks on this side. And everybody's, it's free range. Anybody can talk to each other or fight each other or whatever it is. So it's, it's a bit more dangerous doing weekends. Cause you're also with people in different categories of what they've done. Some people were in there for, you know, some pretty bad stuff. So, but for the three weeks in Maplehurst, I was honestly like detoxing. for half the time, you know, and I would just sleep as much as I could. Um, detoxing in jail is probably one of the worst things I've ever had to do. Um, and I remember just really wanting a cigarette. I wanted a smoke. And when my lawyer came, I asked him if you can smoke in, in treatment. He said, yeah. And the first, cause I didn't want my parents to spend money, you know? So when they, when he said you can smoke in treatment, I was like, okay, take me to treatment. And that was the kicker. Yeah.
Speaker 4That's the only, you know, to be honest. Yeah. That's the only thing that, that I need. Okay. I can smoke. And I get that. Yeah. I totally get that. Yeah. It's like, if I can't have that, you know, I need, I need something. So you go to addiction rehab Toronto and then what happens there? Like, I'm assuming at this point you, you knew you had a problem.
Speaker 3For sure. Absolutely. I remember, I remember going, uh, I think I was 16 years old and I remember going, uh, back to my mom's house. This is in St. Catherine's before I moved to Burlington. And, uh, at like four in the morning. And I remember knocking on the door for her to let me in. And, um, she was, uh, she came and I remember I just broke down and started crying like in her arms and told her that I'd been doing cocaine, you know? And she, uh, she hugged me obviously and like took care of me. And, you know, I went to bed in the next morning. Um, I sought out a therapist and, you know, tried doing all these other things. And, you know, I was just going to the therapist and then getting beer afterwards and going to you. So that didn't really work. Like you said, for us, I think the only thing is, you know, I was just going to the therapist and, you know, some type of program. So, um, yeah, uh, I ended up, um, knowing I had a problem at that point when I went, did I want to stop entirely? I wasn't ready yet, but I was the best client there. You know, if you told me to do something in rehab, I, I, I did whatever you told me to do. Um, I, I've always been like a people pleaser, you know, and, and good at getting people to like me, you know, I'm good at talking. Um. And, uh, I did whatever they told me to do, uh, ended up sharing like a few recovery meetings while I was in there. And, um, when I got out, I went right back to the ex-girlfriend that, um, I had told you about. And, uh, you know, at that point we had a no contact order against each other. Um, I wasn't allowed to see her. She wasn't allowed to see me. And, uh, we still hung out. Um. We got into like a verbal altercation. vacation. Uh, she called the cops on me. I was also not supposed to be drinking and on house arrest at this time as well. So I breached like two or three things. Um, and I went back to jail again from there. And then I remember calling, uh, Eric from jail and, um, he said, yeah, come, come to sober living. So my lawyer got me, um, two years on house arrest if I was in sober living. So that led me for two years. So that led me to art and sober living for two years, um, on house arrest. And I did pretty good there. I had a few slips in between obviously, but, uh, during that time, like we lost, I lost a lot of good, good friends, you know, my best friend, Pat, that Eric knew very well passed away. Um, Jonathan, who was the head chef at art, he ended up passing away. Uh, Chris passed away. Um, John ended up passing away. You knew John? Yeah. I knew him well. So I was the last person
Speaker 4with him. We went to elementary school together. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. I had no idea. Yeah. I went to that funeral. It was, that was tough, man. Yeah. I know his parents well and our families, we went to the same elementary school and high school. Right. Yeah. So like that was, that was
Speaker 3really tough for me because how it happened, right? Like, I don't even know if you want to get into that, but just like, I remember, um, being called by, from a private investigator, like every week, like, where is he? Where is he? Where is he? And I had left him and went back to living and he was found, you know, dead where I had left them. Right. So, um, like months later or weeks later or something like that, um, in a field. So anyways, that, that messed me up pretty badly, you know? Um, I remember having to sit down with his family and just like tell them, like my experience on how that had happened and what had happened. And I always kind of felt like some type of guilt and shame for not trying to get him to come back with me harder than I, than I did, you know? Um, and, uh, from there, like I just kept, I kept, uh, relapsing after that. Um, I went back to Burlington, went to my parents' house, um, lived with them for a while. And then it got so bad to the point where, um, I was kicked out of the hospital. Um, I was kicked out of the hospital. I was kicked out, nowhere to go, basically living in essentially what you would call a trap house, you know, in Burlington and Warwick. And, uh, my buddy, um, Pat who passed away, who was like my best friend, his family actually took me in, came and saved me from the apartment that I was staying in. Whereas, you know, essentially killing myself with drugs and alcohol and whatever else. And, um, they put me into a rehab, uh, and then they put me in a sober living home, which was called the Phoenix house. And that was made in memory of Pat who passed away. Um, and my buddy, Julian opened it up. I don't know if you remember Julian. And I did. Is that still around that place? No, cause he died, right? Sorry. I remember he passed away too. He passed away too. And when he passed away, I was just like, what is going on? You know, like everybody's, everybody's, uh, dropping and it's, it was scary, bro. And, um, you know, the place, it was a great place. Thomas, I don't know if you know him, love him, love him to death. You know, he's done, uh, he's done a lot for me. Um, and, uh, you know, that place really helped me quite a bit. And like, I have nothing but the utmost love and respect for Tina and Mario who were Pat's parents, right. That brought me, brought me in and took care of me. They gave me a job as well. At one point working for Mario's company, making really good money. Right. So, um, I think after Julian died, um, I went out west to, um, some place called together we can, um, and, uh, another rehab center in Vancouver. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I, I don't, I think I did okay there, you know, I, I was, but I, I was just doing meeting meetings. Like I wasn't getting into the solution of things and, um, you know, there's, I wasn't really working out, which is a big part of my recovery as well. And, uh, I ended up, uh, losing a girlfriend, actually, Monica was her name. Eric had given her a job at art at one point. And, you know, a lot of people tried helping her and, uh, she ended up passing away. So I remember going back to Toronto for her funeral. And, um, I just never left after that. You know, I didn't go back to Vancouver again. I struggled. Um, and this kind of brings me to the point, uh, in 2025, where I was out, like the jumping off point, I had gone to jail again for the first time in like seven years since the DUIs, um, in a blackout, I kicked down a door to try and grab my, uh, belongings that I had left somewhere because I thought I heard people laughing on the other side and it turns out it was the wrong apartment floor and there was a family inside full-blown psychosis, full-blown psychosis. Yeah. And, uh, thankfully nobody was hurt or anything. Like that. But, you know, I probably traumatized a family, right? Like I didn't, I didn't know what was, what was even going on or where it was. So it turns out the apartment building was in Jane and Finch. So it wasn't even, it wasn't a good area, you know, it could have easily been shot or killed or something. And, uh, I'm not like the type of person that likes to fight or likes confrontation. I guess just when I, you know, when I use, I put myself in dangerous situations with dangerous people and, um, I ended up going to jail. So I got let out and that's when I called Eric in 2025 and I said, you need to give me one more chance. He took that chance on me. Um, I did, uh, whatever they told me to do again in treatment. I met Alan. Um, two things he told me to do were not to make decisions based on bad feelings and don't do things I can't talk about. Right. And I stuck to that for, don't do things I can't talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Don't make decisions based on shitty feelings and don't do things I can't talk about. Simple. Simple. Which is all I like could do. Like, Integrity. Yeah. Right. Right. And, um, I did well, I ended up, uh, taking over one of, uh, the jobs for house manager at, uh, this over living house. I went back to school, which I'm finishing up now, actually. Um, and, uh, you know, I, I really started to like dive into the, into a program. Um, I, I sponsored guys. Um, I, I, what else? I was focused on the gym a lot. And then like 15 months sober, I went on this, uh, spiritual retreat in Mexico. And, um, I met a girl, you know, amazing person. Uh, I thought I was ready for a relationship. Turns out I wasn't. And, uh, I slowly started to like, come off the beam and started focusing more on the job, focusing on school, focusing on the relationship. Um, recovery starts to go down the ladder, right? Exactly. Exactly. And, uh, yeah, Anthony. And then I was, I think on, on the 16th, my 16th month that I was sober, um, I a place I shouldn't have been like my integrity slowly started to go away through through you know the after my year I stopped writing out my inventory every night um I was focusing more like on getting getting things like money or materialistic objects like I wanted the the girl I wanted the the apartment I wanted the car like everything that um you know the book talks about money prestige and property and like that's kind of where my focus was instead of how can I um get better like internally and bring my recovery to that next level you know spiritually I always kind of matched like my insides on your um what is it I always kind of matched how I feel on what you thought about me you know like my insides on your outsides type deal thing and I need you to love me to me for me to love myself right exactly yeah codependency exactly yeah so from from there like uh I I was in um I'll just say where I was I went to the casino by myself and I've never had a gambling problem so you know in my head it's like okay I can go play some slots just to switch up from going to a meeting or doing what I usually do on Saturday nights and uh I think it was about 12 o'clock um and they say like people places and things right I was by myself I didn't bring anybody with me I was in a place where I shouldn't have been because I had relapsed years before in the same casino by myself not even thinking about that and um mental blanks mental blank spot exactly I didn't have uh they talk about like having a defense right like if I'm in the middle I've got meetings I've got my meditation I've got god or higher power whatever you want to choose my fellowship um working out like all these things but at that time and place all these like everything kind of started to fade away and I didn't want to call my sponsor and tell them I was at a casino because I was supposed to be at the house watching over the guys right and and um you know I saw these guys drinking at a bar and the thought came and I prayed for it to go away and you know it did and then it came back and then boom you know 16 months down the drain that I had been working uh so hard to get and um that was it that's all it took was one drink and I was off to the races you know and you know I dropped my phone and I was like oh my god I'm at a school I lost my job um you know my friends could only help me so much right my family could only help me so much and uh you know the girlfriend stuck around actually she was the only person that was there for me probably pretty much but at the end of it which is why it was so hard to you know to to break up and tell her I have to focus on myself for a while you know but uh it was the best thing for me now that I look back at it it at at the um at the end of the day right because I can't transmit to you something that I don't have like I can't and and you know she deserved to to uh I don't want to get too much into it but she's a good person and deserves more than you know what I was able to give her at the
Speaker 4time so well said yeah um I want to two things but I I want to talk about the relationship piece and early sobriety because I think that's so important for guys and women too but yeah I was always taught not to get into a relationship in the first year yeah um but even you know I've done it in in my recovery the last time I celebrated a year I got into a relationship same thing like 13 months yeah and it was fucking hard like I I stayed sober through it but I don't it was it was tough yeah I want to get into that but yeah I want to ask you I'm curious when you had that drink at the casino yeah what did your next couple of weeks months look like did you go like head first was it a slow head head first um
Speaker 3I'm the type of person that doesn't drink without using and I and I know that in the back of my head but for whatever reason my head was like you can have a few drinks right like I've always kind of had that reservation where it's like um you know if you have a bit of time under your belt which I've never had in in my life like I've never had a year sober I've never had 15 months over 16 whatever it was um it was 60 days back out 60 days back out 60 days back out so my head was was saying okay you know you've got you're in school you've got a girlfriend you've got a job you've got a program around you you're working out you're healthy you can have a fucking and um I took that drink and I kid you not Anthony like I think four hours after I was I was in a dangerous place with dangerous people getting you know some some cocaine or crack or whatever you want to call it and uh um the next day when uh and I'm supposed to be watching over the sober house at this time right like Eric's put me in charge to watch over eight guys and make sure people aren't choosing and you know I'm I'm not even there I was gone I didn't go back to the house um you know Alan was calling me looking for me my girlfriend at the time was calling me looking for me and they actually found they found where I was actually I was in the jungle like they call it the jungle in off Eglinton West down there um and uh and uh my friend actually who you know who works at the center um used to party there and she's the one who told them where I was and uh I remember I think it was like my fourth day of using or something again my phone's gone phone's off nobody's able to get a hold of me and um you know I turn around and I see Alan and my girlfriend at the time and I'm just and Alan's girlfriend Jacqueline and I'm just like in shock I've never had such bad post-traumatic stress in my life man and uh you know they they came and got me they dragged me out um they brought me to Eric brought me into detox um and uh I think that was after like a week of using and I remember looking at Josh and Josh saying bro you've lost a lot of weight like seven days I didn't I don't know about you like but when I'm using I don't eat I don't sleep I don't drink nothing else matters nothing else matters except for getting high exactly so that's what happened uh he took me into detox um I left right I wasn't done yet I I went out and used again I went into the cam H detox I left I wasn't done yet um Eric brought me in again uh I sobered up for about a month and then um I left you know and uh that went on for about four months and then um I remember calling Alan and uh or my mom my and my mom called Alan and uh you know said he needs help and that he's serious this time and and I was you know and uh they sent me to the last door out West in Vancouver um which is you know crazy it's an amazing treatment center just not what I'm used to you know it's it's hardcore like it's uh it's not like addiction it's not like art like where there's nice you know beds and and uh you know personal chefs I think they have a chef there but it's just it's it's very strict you know the the rules are very strict you always have to bring somebody with you if you're going somewhere um you can't call anybody until like the two weeks is done and you have to uh complete uh the 12 steps before you go at the na way and like the for yeah anyways sorry
Speaker 4for oh you're good you're good I mean it's called the last door yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that kind of says everything exactly yeah yeah yeah dude man yeah it's incredible I mean uh my first treatment center I went to Hazelden when I was 23 in Minnesota and it was much like that yeah I was the oldest guy it was a lot of young kids there yeah and it was like no you don't follow the rules like you're you're gone you're you're gone right yeah there's the door you can leave whenever you want yeah but we're not giving you your passport back or not and I'm in the middle of Minnesota I'm not going anywhere right right and I was with a bunch of opiate users right yeah where it was like so easy for me to I'm not like I'm not that bad guys like meanwhile I'm using cocaine every day yeah and uh you know I can touch my fingers in between my nose my my body is a complete mess I'm I'm a mess yeah um but yeah it's like something just clicked while I was in there I always call it hope right I think I love that it's like the most important thing for us we need to be able to see people working some program yeah that we wouldn't we would have hung out with you know what I mean like we can relate to yeah it's like this guy's cool and he's sober yeah and he's smiling all the time right and he's in a rehab like yeah there's something here man what's going on maybe I can be happy without drugs and that's that's that's like the kind of seed that gets planted right right but to your point man it's like when I got out of there it I was I'm so defiant I think we're we sounds like we're both very sure like that and entitled and defiant so when I relapsed and I've been to three rehabs when I went to this third one and they told me I had to stay 60 days yeah instead of 30. yeah I fought them for maybe like a week and a half yeah before I finally just shut up dude just like an extra 30 days looking back it's like hilarious right because it's like 30 days in rehab compared to I don't know prison or whatever yeah is it's so easy looking back but when you're in it man it's like sucks it's tough it's so
Speaker 3especially when you had some recovery before that's the hardest part I think too Anthony like like you said like having uh what did you how did you say a belly full of beer and a head full of a yeah yeah recovery recovery and a belly full yeah so like yeah it's so it's so true it's so true because like my my buddy used to always say um his cocaine's cut with recovery now same type of deal right that's great yeah his cocaine's cut with 100 every time he does a line somebody would call from recovery yeah and uh or he would get a memory of like how much better right in recovery yeah so it's like that that always um hit with me for me it was like i would
Speaker 4hear i'd be at like these airbnbs and i would hear police sirens yeah like we do in toronto every day and i'd be like they're fucking coming for me for sure 100 they're coming for me yeah and you start you're like what have i done wrong what am i on right and then you're like nothing okay but they're not coming for me and then you're and then you get reminded you're like god there was a time when that never bothered me yeah and so those things start to come up you're like i remember not being bothered by police police sirens yeah yeah yeah yeah and now it's all i can think about is i gotta
Speaker 3hide the shit i'm yeah who's in my phone that's another reason why i get rid of my phone right away i think i start to think like yeah yeah the cops are after me or you know somebody's going through my phone or my location is on or so it's not enjoyable i want to talk about this relationship
Speaker 4piece because i think i don't think i've ever talked about this on the podcast but it's so important i think a lot of guys that i know and some women too but i talked to more guys about this yeah um they don't relapse because of girls right no but but it's it seems to be sort of a hand-in-hand thing where it's like i want to get in a relationship because i need to cling on to something yeah you know uh i'm not using my solution is gone out the window right i need a new solution i'm not ready for the spiritual one yet because i'm newly sober or i don't understand it or i you know i'm still taking my will back i'm going to choose a woman a relationship gambling whatever yeah so why do you think we can't have why i don't want to say can't why do you think it's it's hard to do relationships in early recovery
Speaker 3i mean like for for me um and yeah good way to put it anthony yeah so it's like i'm still trying to and i think now you know it's it's it's getting better um but i'm trying to like get a sense of my values and integrity and morals and like who i am as a person what i like what i don't like so if i don't even know who i am or what i like or love myself yet you know it's so cliche how they say it but it's also the truth how am i gonna love you and give you what you need if i'm still trying to love you and give you what you need and i'm still trying to love you and give you what you need and it's a you know it's a selfish program right and i just think like um i don't know about you but like that relationship i had um that was unhealthy that i was talking to you about brought up a lot of uh the one when i was younger like when i went to jail not not the most recent one um brought up a lot of like insecurities and and the recent one that i was just in you know like the trust issues and um how insecure i can be sometimes and uh you know just accountability and communication and all these things they're they're so difficult like if if you're not ready for them you know if i'm not ready for them and uh you know i'm just kind of like now starting to touch the surface of my foundation i thought i was ready because it was like okay you get wait until you get your year everybody kept telling me wait until you got and i did and right away after i got my year the first thing i started to look for was a relationship you know instead of like naturally letting it come to me and um you know i when i got the 16 months i i stayed away from relationships and i also stayed away from sex for 15 months and i thrived it was the best i had ever done you know so that's what i'm doing now coming up to six months again which is the second most amount of clean time i've ever had in my life again i'm not having sex i'm not in relationships and um i just need to focus on myself right now and i would advise everybody unless you're married with kids or or you know you have somebody that's like stayed true to you and held you down through all this which you know the last one i was with i don't want to mention her name just because i don't want to break her anonymity but she stayed solid and like she was loyal and like i said she was like the only person who was there for me at the end but again i i wasn't ready for it you know she can be five years sober and be a psychotherapist and personal trainer and all these things and have a good program but if i'm not like okay with myself it's just going to reflect on on her and i'll take it out on her or take it out on myself which is what i ended up doing so far
Speaker 4well said man no i think it's so true it's like relationships are hard for normal people without addiction and alcoholism right right um i don't know about you but i drank used party gambled i use outside things to change my insides because i don't like the emotions that come up the thought the future that i have to do that thing fuck oh i'm just gonna yeah i'm gone yeah and i'm not thinking about it yeah so you add another dynamic into your life relationship it's topping all sorts of you said it perfectly insecure and i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah i'm not thinking about it yeah and now they're brought to the surface if i don't have a strong recovery program i always tell guys that i work with too i'm like you can you can date in early recovery you can you can i'm not gonna tell you not to do it right but you better be fucking working your program 35 times harder yeah than you would have for sure i strongly advise against it to your point it's like why add the undue stress i also love what you said too is like a good it's real simple i was looking for a relationship instead of letting it i love that instead of letting it come to me that's you said it perfectly what's my motive here right right i'm trying to feel better about myself by using other women right yeah and not not just for sex but for emotional comfort yeah yeah yeah exactly somebody to just hold me exactly because i can't hold myself right right so if i'm look it's it's really this simple am i looking for that or am i letting it come to me yeah yeah and then you only you can ask answer that question right absolutely so maybe just wait a bit right yeah i'm not telling you i'm saying to everybody to everybody maybe just wait a bit
Speaker 3yeah yeah just give it a minute yeah give it a year and then give it another year it came to
Speaker 4me man my wife came to me yeah um but when i wasn't looking for a relationship yeah in seven
Speaker 3years and wow you know you so you had it so you had seven and a half seven and a half years yeah
Speaker 4what brought you out my relapse was and i won't get too into it because i always talk about it yeah on here i don't want to bore people yeah but uh essentially it started with steroids it started with secrets yeah on the steroids yeah and hiding them yeah and then you know to to fix my body dysmorphia issues and then i would say this it's like relapse steroids didn't make me relapse it was the fact the line the relationship around it right right and yeah i would tell my sponsor like i was getting it legally which i was yeah but i was telling people 90 of the truth yeah and then the 10 i was back here right right i got this trend in my hand right i'm not going to tell them about that yeah and i'm diving into all sorts of other steroids right yeah i had a counselor in my you know you i went to rehab in utah i love the guy fucking gem over here how is he yeah i can't believe it yeah i can't believe it yeah i can't believe it
Speaker 3i heard utah is amazing oh beautiful i would recommend it yeah i'm excited to go back it's
Speaker 4in the desert not in rehab out there yeah it's near colorado it's like appalachian mountains i think yeah uh but i had his name was sam and he would always say you know if you're you're robbing banks 90 or sorry you're robbing banks 10 of the time but the 90 of the time you're not robbing banks you're still fucking okay and i was like i just tried to think of that today it goes back to your integrity thing right you know yeah what am i doing in my recovery that i wouldn't be telling about right you know yeah and not in a braggy sort of like hey i robbed a bank no but no you know
Speaker 3when you're doing that sneaky thing like yeah and it's it's like putting nine eggs in bass and you're in your basket and leaving that 10th one out or whatever they say right like um and it goes to being like all in in this program half measures availed us nothing right so it's like if i can um that's just for me though because i don't know about you anthony but i know a lot of people in recovery that that do some stuff on the side and still stay sober right and and i'm always battling in my head like how come he can do that why why are they able to to do this and make money this way or whatever it is but i i'm stuck here like being a good guy being a good yeah yeah like i don't want to always be a good guy i get it but i but i have to be because for the you know for for people like us i think it's it's so crucial and critical because like if i don't pay for the money i don't want to be a good guy so i don't want to be a good guy i don't want to be a good guy
Speaker 4and that's what leads to the relapse right it's like these unchecked emotions that keep coming back up yeah you know and that's why i always like to make the connection between being practicing integrity and staying sober if i'm practicing integrity i i don't have to deal with those shame emotions that keep coming up of i'm a bad person i shouldn't have done that um so yeah i like i laugh because like i same thing i'm like comparison is the thief of joy it's so true i love that it's just like why can that guy get away with for me here's here's my thing because i relapsed on adhd medication by the end of it that's why it led me back to meth and yeah using a dark web and all this sorts of shit yeah yeah um i've gone down that road yeah yeah yeah you can fucking get a lot of shit on there but yeah yeah i don't i fucking threw out that computer i did smart i would get dopamine from shopping for drugs yeah like at four in the morning that was like it was almost better than the actual high exactly yeah that was my thing was pursuing looking at pictures it was insane yeah
Speaker 3it was insane and so um i used to just go on my phone for hours and reset all the settings on my phone when i was when i used to do meth very like just fiddle with the settings yeah just like like dopamine or no because i thought people were like in it or whatever right like it would get weird like password psychosis almost and i would rearrange all the passwords and anyways i've done
Speaker 4that scared password psychosis yeah yeah it's my buddy calls it but um yeah so i i there would be people in recovery that i knew that were on adhd medication and so that was a dangerous thing for me because they actually had adhd i don't have adhd i convinced myself i had adhd when the doctor asked me hey did you struggle with substance abuse in the past i would always click no yeah thing it's like integrity right yeah yeah anyways they would be doing it for years and it's like why can they get away with it and but it's like dude you don't have adhd stop yeah stop yeah you're just trying to fucking change your insides with outside things i had the same problem with ben
Speaker 3zo's for a long time i was always like okay well this guy's taking it he has anxiety i know i definitely have anxiety like for sure doctor now all of a sudden yeah yeah right right but i've been through more than him you know i should be able to take a benzo once in a while again but this it's the same effect it's like if i start you know taking benzodiazepine i'm gonna abuse it i'm gonna abuse it to the point where i feel drunk and then i'm gonna go get blow it's just the risk reward is but it's hard to see
Speaker 4that now right i mean now it's it's easier to see that right but when you're in that thought pattern you've you've already very we all know you've relapsed weeks before you actually for sure yeah you're fucking contemplating you're you're you know making up deals with yourself justifying things yeah it's a dangerous place to be and then yeah i one of my favorite lines in in the the book that i came across this time in recovery was i have simply lost my right to chemical peace of mind oh i love that it's like i just i cannot safely use anything right that's why like i see a lot of people with these and i you know i again we don't need to take other people's inventory yeah i'm very good at it yeah um when you start to see like peptides and like all these other things yeah for me listen i'm not going to tell anyone you're going to fucking relapse after that yeah know your motive yeah be honest with yourself be honest with others absolutely and it's like you know i went through an ozempic phase for a long time yeah and it all fucking just trickles back to the same to the same so now today i cannot use anything yeah right and
Speaker 3you know that yeah and that's just me has to be like smashed into your head right like for for me like i when i went to the last where i got off a lot of medication that i was you know taking and i wasn't abusing it but um it would have eventually went down that road you know i would have ended up abusing it or tried to match it with it's like it's almost like a safety net you know where it's where it's like just another thing you're still escaping right yeah it's some some type of way like listen some people need medication 100 i'm not like anti-med but um like if it's a narcotic in my experience it's it's not uh it's not going to end well for the real like type three or whatever you want for the real addict right so yeah um and uh what else did i want to say what was the last thing that we were talking about medication and relationship yeah that's what it was yeah yeah anyways let's
Speaker 4talk about it a little bit more what um so what do you think what do you think has changed this time
Speaker 3around from the last time you wanted something funny actually is like i've always like ran from um my emotions you know like if i had broken up with somebody in recovery in the past and um you know which was the hardest one of the hardest things i've had to do in recovery for me like personally i i don't deal um well with you know emotions especially when it comes to a breakup or relationships but i think like they're just it got to the point where it's it was you know after having the 16 months sober and relapsing it got scary for me and i was like this is i'm either going to die end up in jail for a long time or or you know i'm going to seek spiritual help or some type of program in recovery and i'm going to get better and i'm not going to be able to do that unless i focus on myself right now and like having to do that and um you know to the one person who was like there for me through all this shit um i just while i was in a place um at this at the time i was in a sober living facility where um you know people were constantly relapsing around me and like um i stayed sober through that and i i just felt like it got to a point where i'm just done you know like it doesn't matter what you throw at me i don't care what happens who passes away what legal issues i have to go through if i get the job if i don't get the job if i lose a girl don't lose their girl like um i i just felt like i got to that point where it's like i'm done you know and that doesn't mean that it can't come back and um i can use again so i got to be careful like i got to stay on the beam right and like keep my program intact but i've also um you know gone through a lot of emotions a lot of anger like resentment you know towards a lot of people but mainly towards myself taking it out on other people that don't really deserve it you know or some do deserve it in my opinion but again like that's not my i got to clean my side of the street right that's all that matters so anyways what's different is i just feel like i'm i'm able to like um handle uh my emotions a lot better and i know what to do like i don't want to say i know what to do now because it sounds closed-minded and i want to be open-minded um and like every morning i pray for a new experience in recovery to my higher power i say that like three times a day and you know i ask my higher power to give me what i need and not what i want because what i want usually takes me back out right so but i just feel like um i i know what i have to do and i'm dedicated and motivated to doing it again and you know i want what i want back what i got last time times more like if i can do what i did last time in a year you know in five years who knows where this can take us right like you you know obviously you've had seven and a half fourth dimension bro right right it's you
Speaker 4get rocketed if you stay in the middle and do the things that are suggested of you yeah i uh i want to talk about spirituality because i love talking about spirituality and i think it's so essential for the type three the the real alcoholic addict i don't you know i think some people get sober without it i've i've the more i've been doing the podcast and social media i've met a lot of people that don't necessarily need to go the spiritual route yeah in my opinion they're missing a huge amazing beautiful part of life yeah i think for sure you know it's funny how this thing works i'll be watching i'll be on social media and i'll i'll start seeing people that i truly admire that are not even near the addiction realm or they don't have a problem and and they start talking about god and spirituality very successful humble people yeah and i'm like you know there's and i've always known this there's something here right there there's something to be had and it's not me going to church it's like you said talking to a power greater than yourself yeah uh turning over your thoughts and your actions right so yeah what does what does spirituality mean to you and
Speaker 3what is it why is it important i think like the main the main thing is um humility you know for me for for spirituality and it sounds like um you know like this small thing but i don't know i don't know about you i feel like you might be similar but for me like ego is a huge huge thing you know i start to get things back i start to look a bit better i think a bit better um people start to like me again and then you know it's my will and i and i start living in my will and like looking at what i can take and what i can get instead of what what can i give to you and how can i be of service right so i think like spirituality is just like living in love you know and i do believe like there's a greater uh uh greater consciousness or whatever you want to say that's like we're all guided by um you know i choose to call it god personally uh i also think like everybody's looking for this burning bush moment or for you know a white light or the clouds to spread and like lightning to come down when uh you know our book it says um or the book that i use uh it says god is god is within us you know um deep down in every man or man a child is the fundamental idea of god right so yeah i think like um just let and it goes back to integrity again as well just living in what i think is and not always what i think because like i can manipulate my thinking without thinking i'm manipulating my thinking gray area yeah right right yeah so it's just kind of um what the right thing to do is and sometimes i gotta call my you know my mentor uh sponsor counselor you know eric allen who people josh people that i trust right and that uh i know have my best interest at heart and um you know just kind of do the right thing and uh it's not always easy because sometimes i don't know what the right thing is but
Speaker 4that's when you reach out for help though it's like you said right right and yeah you mentioned like your phone now is filled with people in recovery yeah uh the last guy i had in here jamie he he talked about you know messaging and and keeping in touch with people in recovery how important is that to you and like what does that look like honestly it's uh i i could do a
Speaker 3better sorry i could do a better job at it to be honest with you but it's it's you know um a vital importance to like connection like everybody knows or if you don't know it's the opposite of addiction right or isolation whatever you want to say so um even just like if somebody asked me to to speak um at a recovery meeting or if you asked me to come on the podcast which thank you by the way i'm grateful nice to officially have this talk with you but um i think just like picking up the phone and calling right like either i'm picking up the phone and i'm calling my dope dealer or i'm picking up the phone and i'm calling somebody to talk me out of calling my dope dealer so it's it's it's really important i try to call at least one person a day um i think there was probably a number of times uh last year where i was like six months sober months sober, nine months sober. And, um, I was, I was gone. Like in my head, I didn't tell anybody this, but there were a number of, um, times when I was getting ready to go pick up and use. And for whatever reason, Eric called me or he came by the house and he took me for coffee or Alan called me or, or Josh or somebody called me. Right. And I was just like, okay, like that's God, like in my opinion that, right. So yeah, spirituality, I mean, it looks different for a lot of different people, but, um, like you said, it doesn't have to be in a church that, you know, my, my spirituality is in a church basement, you know, with coffee and old men and women or whatever.
Speaker 4Right. So, yeah. I mean, a power greater than yourself is a group of people, right. Group of drunks. Right. Right. Um, it's so essential, right. My way is not working. Yeah. I need a new plan. Yeah. These people who have gotten a plan from other people before them. Right. Right. It's not their plan. No. Right. It's, it's this sort of shared plan. Yeah. Call people when you want to drink, um, do service when you can. Right. Practice principles, 12 principles in your life every day. Like it's not, it's not really up for debate, right. Whether it works or not. I've seen it work in thousands of people over the 10 years that I've been in recovery. The more tapped in I am to that, if I just trust the process, it'll all work out. Here's my thing that I want to get into because if we talked a little bit, I like talking about unmanageability on this podcast, unmanageable, but you, you, you kind of opened up and I'd love to hear more about what you're struggling with. But for me, um, I was really looking forward to today and I can't always say that with the podcast because it's become like, I don't want to say boring. It's become sort of like, yeah, just like, uh, you know, I'm not getting results that I want in quotations. Right. I'm not, these things aren't happening and, and I'm just trying to stay consistent with it. So it's like, you know, I posted that thing and I saw that you, you commented on it is like, passion is something that you're willing to suffer through. And I'm like, when I saw that, I was like, yeah, dude, like I love this shit, but I don't always love it. You know what I mean? I don't like it's work. Right. I don't want to always get out of my house and spend money and not get anything in return. I can be a baby about it. Yeah, of course. But like, fuck, every time I do it, I come away and people, I meet the coolest people. I get messages and people are like, Hey man, that guy was really good. Thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah. So like, yeah. I'm willing to suffer for it. Yeah. And that's what I think is, is important today. I'm kind of in this place in my recovery right now. I just celebrated a year again. Oh yeah. Thanks man. And it's like you too, man. Like, thank you. It's amazing to hear your story and like that you're alive. Right. We shouldn't be here. You know, both of us, I've been in many scenarios where I should be dead. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and God had another plan. Right. Uh, and I think that plan is to help one person somewhere along the line, you know, for sure. And so that's what I try to in mind with this is like, stop, detach from the outcomes, just keep doing it because there's a purpose here. Yeah. And, uh, so I would say like, that's my biggest struggle right now is, is sort of, I get in my head a lot, but where I was going with all this is I was sitting at home today and we moved this up a day, which thank you, by the way, I was in my head about my financial is my problem right now. And I keep, I go back to this idea of like, turn it over, turn it over, turn it over. You remember when you used to do lines when you had financial problems now just fucking do a hit of God. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever it is, whatever it works, talk to God about it, turn it over, ask for help. Yeah. But it's tough, man. Like when you're in it, it's a daily thing. For sure. Like some days it's like, I'm just like, I might not be able to pay my mortgage. All these things are just coming up and it's like, it's not, yes, there are problems in my life, but I was taught by one of my favorite speakers that it's, it's everything is perception. It's how I'm looking at it, you know? But when you're in it, man, so my point with all this huge ramble is when I got up and came here. Yeah. It just went away. It's gone. You know? Yeah. I'm sure it'll come back at some point. Yeah, for sure. My point with all that is like action is so important, right? Whether it's calling, going to a meeting, whatever the thing is. Huge. That's like the number one, like
Speaker 3faith without works is dead. Right. And like one thing I've always been good at Anthony, I love how you said that is, you know, I I've struggled with the open-mindedness, you know, honesty, open-mindedness, willingness, willingness. I have no problem. I'll get up, I'll go, I'll do whatever, you know, I like to keep moving. I was talking to Tamara yesterday, you know, and she was like, do you have any rest days set up? And I was just like, no, I do better when I'm moving, you know, which is the truth. But yeah. And I think like, as to your point, it's just there's a line in one of the books and it says the real surrender is surrendering to the fact that I'll be surrendering for the rest of my life. So it's like just little surrenders throughout my day. Okay. I can't pay this surrender. This person thinks this about me, surrender, turn it over. Like you said, right. Cause eventually it'll, you know, it'll, it'll work out, bro. It'll all work out. And that's just like the hope that you said, which is the number one thing. Like I've been at this for almost 10 years. And after I relapsed after my 15 months, I never thought I'd pick up a drink or a drug again. I was like, this is not supposed to be my story, you know? But like you said, like that hope and like that, uh, faith is what it's carried me to almost six months now.
Speaker 4So, yeah. I love that. I haven't come across that. I'm sure I've come across that line. It's like, you know, when you're reading it and you're like, did they always have that in there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Surrender to the fact that you will be surrendering for the rest of
Speaker 3your life. Yeah. The real surrender is surrendering to the fact that I'll be surrendering for the rest
Speaker 4of my life. And that that's not a life sentence either. That's a beautiful, as I sit here listening to that. Yeah. Cause I'm in a better mood now. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Yeah. If you told me that three hours ago, I'd be like, yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. But it's beautiful. Like, yeah, because then I'm not, I don't, I don't have to fucking,
Speaker 3it takes the pressure off. Yeah. Yeah. We don't have to be perfect. Yeah. And it's like everything will work, you know, we're not on the streets, we're not in jail, we're not starving. So, but it's monies of like, things are expensive right now. You know, it's easy to get caught up in that for sure. I get caught up in it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And then I always like to go
Speaker 4back to, thank you by the way. That was great. Yeah. I always like to go back to the, um, what can I do about this right now in this moment? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing. Nothing. It's always nothing. Go rob a bank. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Yeah. Do I want to do that? Yeah. No. Not anymore. Yeah. Probably not. What's going to happen after that, right? Yeah. Um, beautifully said, man, let's, let's finish with this. Uh, I got a lot out today. Thank you for coming down. Yeah. Thank you. Um, if you could say something to that younger, sorry, not younger, that early recovery, Steven. Yeah. What would you say?
Speaker 3Just, uh, don't give up, you know, keep coming back. Um, listen to what people who have come before you, uh, tell you to do. They call it suggestions. My friend, Mike, the tree says it's a suggestion, like pulling your parachute when you're jumping out of a plane. I used to have a, yeah, it's the truth. Just do what they tell you to do, you know, and, uh, get in the middle of this thing, hit the ground running and, and, you know, just never give up, but I guess, and don't lose hope. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, man.
Speaker 6Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content. The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes. Only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice, addiction treatment, or therapy. If you are someone, you know, is struggling with addiction, please consult a licensed physician, addiction specialist, or mental health professional. You are no longer alone. Thanks for listening to this podcast. I'm your host, Mike. I'll see you next time.
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