I Was Put on Psychiatric Drugs at 7…I’m Still Paying the Price | Danielle Gansky

30 years old and you've been medicalized since you were seven. I don't know who I am underneath at all. My life, I do feel like was stolen from me. I experienced literally what felt like a chemical lobotomy. You don't hear your own voice in your head reading. It's blocked for me. It almost feels like I have dementia. My entire brain development happened under the influence of psychiatric drugs. The withdrawal from the SSRIs dropped me into a living nightmare of non-stop physical and psychological torment. The pain was unlike anything I had ever known. I became bedridden, disabled, suicidal. It was like a chemically-induced anxiety. Doctors are trained to prescribe these drugs. They've received no education on how to safely help patients come off of them. (gentle music) Millions of people take antidepressants every single day. For many, their life changing. For others, they say the real nightmare doesn't begin until they try to stop. For decades, the conversation is centered on whether these medications work. Far less attention has been paid to what can happen after years of use or why some people say they can't get off of them without devastating consequences. Today's guest was prescribed antidepressants at just seven years old. She is now 30 and says that she is still trapped by them. After suffering severe neurological injuries, she attributes to long-term SSRI use. She's become a leading advocate calling for informed consent, safer tapering practices and recognition of the millions of people who believe that they've been harmed. You will notice in this interview that she often forgets, which she's saying and relies on notes for details of her story. All side effects of the damage that has been done to her brain. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or culture apothecary on Spotify. If there was ever an episode to share on social media, this one is it. Please welcome Danielle Ganski to culture apothecary. I want people to understand who you were before all of this. So who was little Danielle? I was a very happy, sweet, sensitive child. I was outgoing. I was also a little bit shy in class. I loved the Disney channel. I loved Cartoon Network. What was your favorite Disney show? Well, I really loved Hannah Montana. That was my favorite show. But I think I grew up watching That's So Raven. Loved That So Raven. That was the best. Oh my gosh. But I had a really beautiful, incredible childhood. I had a really happy home life. I was just very naturally happy, go lucky kid. And do you feel that version of your life was stolen from you? Absolutely. So I guess it all started when I was in school and a teacher noticed. I just wasn't fitting the school system, exactly how they think you're supposed to be. And I was a bit fidgety, distracted. I also wasn't fully keeping up academically. So one of the teachers suggested that I be evaluated for something called ADHD. And you were seven. I was seven. Yeah. I had your parents notice the same types of signs with you. I think it all came from the teacher because at home I was complete like they weren't complaining or noticing something was off or wrong. It really just came down to the one lens that teacher saw me fidgeting or like staring out the window was like, oh, I think there she might have something wrong with her. Why don't you get her checked out? So you get on ADHD medication at the age of seven. And then how old were you when the next medication was recommended? And what was that medication? So I was put on the stimulant riddle in and those calls very severe like adverse effects. They were very stimulating and at the end of the day they left me very agitated and moody and angry in ways that were completely out of character for me. So really instead of recognizing those changes as adverse drug effects, they were interpreted as evidence that something else was psychologically wrong with me. So they were saying little DNL at seven years old has depression or anxiety and now we need to give her an antidepressant. Exactly. That's exactly what happened. And so that quickly spiraled into a cascade of antidepressants, benzodiazepines, mood stabilizers and antipsychotics all before I was even 10 years old. Before you were 10 years old, you were on multiple antidepressants, benzose, antipsychotics? Yeah. And when I cycled between a lot of different ones, I would be pulled off one, ripped off another and I think at the time I was having really severe adverse effects even from that. I now look back like at the time, I didn't really have the language to explain what I was experiencing. I was so young. I didn't even really know what I was taking, but they would cause me to become sorry sometimes that happened. I lose my trade of thought. I apologize. Good. I think that's important to let people see that and hear that in the podcast. These are all side effects from your medication. Yes. Absolutely. They caused very severe cognitive damage. I used to be very smart, quick with it. I now literally, I'll be saying something and I'll forget why I'm saying why I'm saying it. Sometimes I get like delirious and confused. So were you able to continue going to a normal school setting at such a young age with all these medications or did you end up homeschooled or what happened? Yes. So I actually had to switch to a different school. So the school that I was at basically told me I had a learning disability. So I went to a special school with kids with learning disabilities, ADHD, dyslexia. Everyone there was medicated. Do you think that everybody there actually had problems or do you think a lot of them were like you that were being overly medicated and had side effects and nobody was diagnosing it correctly? I do believe that's the case that I was merely a shy, fidgety girl who didn't fit neatly into the mold of how a child was supposed to behave in a classroom setting to these preset norms. And because of that, I was singled out and diagnosed, medicated and it ultimately led to lifelong harm. Before you put on all of these different medications, at any point did doctors sit your parents down and say, Hey, so here are the risks and side effects that Danielle could experience going on these meds. My parents were never given the information needed to make a truly informed decision on my behalf. So my entire brain development happened under the influence of psychiatric drugs. No one told my parents that the long term effects of antidepressants on the developing brain had never been properly studied and it's really unknown. And essentially we're conducting a mass experiment on children's developing brains with little understanding of the long term consequences. I often wonder a lot who I might have been without them, you know, how they have shaped or even stunted parts of my development during some of the most formative years of my life because you're how old now. I'm 30. Yes. You've never been without pills? No. So I don't know who I am underneath it all. I don't know. And sometimes that fills me with a lot of grief to be like, what have I missed out on? You cry. I do. A lot. It's hard to come to terms with to be like, you know, I think it's hard to because I was so injured that, sorry, it's all right, I just, my life I do feel like was stolen from me. It's all hard, emotional topic, sorry. Of course it is. I can't imagine what that feels like, like I know myself but also I don't because is this even the real version of me? Exactly. That's exactly what I like different TV shows. Do I actually like different music, different boys? I mean, you must think he starts all the time. I do. I really do because, you know, so through actually throughout like my teenage years, I, whenever I told the doctors like how awful I felt what I now understand were symptoms of drug harm and adverse effects, I was told that my anxiety was simply getting worse and that I needed higher doses of the drugs to correct it. I couldn't get out of this cycle of meds because every concern I raised was interpreted as proof of my underlying condition rather than recognition that, hey, these medications, these psychoactive brain altering chemicals might be contributing to my change of behavior and how awful I was feeling but no one recognized that. And, you know, there were points in high school, you know, when I was prescribed such high doses of Xanax that I could barely wake up and I let alone make it to school. I actually missed so many days that I nearly faced truancy charges until my psychiatrist he actually medically excused my absences. Did you ever feel at any point like these drugs were helping or working? Did you feel like, hey, my anxiety is less or anything? I 100% know intuitively, no, they not at all ever were helpful, they only ever caused me harm. They, I know for a fact they made like my mental health worse, they made me feel agitated and more anxious and they would cause like looping thoughts. thoughts and I would feel just really out of my mind, but doctors just weren't recognizing that and I don't think I was able to express it properly because I was so young and I don't think I could, I probably was using words like I feel depressed or I feel anxious and they're like, oh, okay, then you need more of this drug. So it wasn't seen as a drug effect, but I do know now that it was looking back and understanding and seeing and looking back. So did you ever experience suicidal ideation or thoughts at a young age on all this medication? There were times where when I was really not doing good, when yeah, so there was times when I felt flattened and numb and just completely gone and I just would zone out and literally stare at people like in the hallway because I was so out of it. People was talking about that like a lexapro stare. Oh, interesting. I've heard about that. I think some people would comment to me like, why, you give it an issue, what's wrong with you, you're like staring at people and I would be embarrassed, but I couldn't help it. I couldn't control it and other times because I was also at a stimulant at certain times on and off throughout my adolescence and that there was times when I was unable to sleep. It would be so stimulating that it would almost make me feel like psychotic and I wouldn't eat. So I'd be down to like 90 pounds. I honestly, they felt they made me feel like I was losing my mind, but so that would those were times where you started to have dark thoughts. Yes. I would say that's been things started to feel not so great because they can induce like they can make you like induce really dark suicidal thoughts. I mean, they can make people violent. They can do all sorts of things that were not warned about, so absolutely. We've all met him. Every T ball team has a dad named Kevin. Kevin still tells people he used to be pretty athletic, you know, until I had that ankle injury or that knee injury or shoulder injury. And then little Timmy hits a ground ball and accidentally starts running toward the parking lot. Well, now Kevin has to chase him about 15 feet in. Kevin's making sounds I've only heard from people climbing Mount Everest. His Apple watch calls 911. The other dads are stretching just from watching it. Life comes at you fast. If you've heard me talk about Taylor Deeks' wellness, it's now called SAVA, same founder, same products I already love, just a fresh new name. One thing I always have with me is their electrolytes, Kevin. You should get these. They're made with essential minerals, organic fruit juice powder, organic coconut water powder and zero added sugar. I especially love the new tropical variety pack because if I'm not getting a beach vacation at least my hydration can pretend I am. Hydration is not just for elite athletes. Sometimes it's for parents trying to survive youth sports without pulling a hamstring. Or it's for somebody who's on a low carb diet. So my mom right now is doing a low carb diet. And she's trying to reset a bunch of stuff kind of going more carnivore. And she said to me the other day, why am I so freaking thirsty? It's like my mouth is so dry all the time. And I was like, Mom, you are majorly dehydrated. She said I keep drinking water but nothing's helping. And I said, but the water doesn't have the minerals you need. This is why you need electrolytes. Go to sovanutrition.com that's sova S-A-V-A nutrition.com. Use code Alex Clarke for 15% off. Taylor Deux Wellness is now sova nutrition. Code Alex Clarke for 15% off. I just finished reading this book, came out in 2023. It's called The Frozen River, 10 out of 10. I was completely obsessed. It's based on the true story of Martha Ballard, a real life midwife in the late 1700s. And one of my favorite parts is when this Harvard trained doctor comes to town acting like he's God's gift to medicine, wanting to deliver everybody's babies, and things are not going great. Meanwhile, of course, he doesn't know anything about birth. He's like 24 just graduated, but he's got the white coat and the ego and the credentials, this fancy education. And then there's Martha, who's actually delivered hundreds of babies and has decades of real world experience, right? It's funny how little things have changed since the late 1700s. We're still taught that the biggest institutions automatically know best, right? If it's a doctor, he has a degree, well, he must know everything and we just have to trust. Well, just like Martha, back then, I agree. We shouldn't just be handing over our control of our healthcare without asking questions. That's one of the reasons I appreciate crowd health. Crowd health is not health insurance. It's a community that helps people fund major medical expenses without the traditional insurance middleman. Because here's the reality, paying cash for routine care, like having a baby is often dramatically less expensive than people realize. And when something truly catastrophic happens, crowd health's community steps in to help with those big bills and you're like, no, they win it. I'm going to be on the hook. Cancer, crazy surgery or car wrecks. No, no, no, no, no. Crowd health has a 99.9% funding success rate. Okay. That is way more than a traditional insurance company who denies one out of every four claims. Crowd health lets you choose your own doctors, including functional medicine providers, natural past, whatever you want. They even provide $300 annually toward wellness support. They will give you a dedicated care advocate to help negotiate. Bells, my mom has one. My mom has just joined crowd health as well. If you have been feeling trapped by the traditional insurance system, it's time to start asking better questions. Go to joincroudhealth.com, use code culture to get started for just $99 for your first three months. That's joincroudhealth.com code culture. Crowd health is not insurance. Take us to the day where you decided I want off of this ride. I want off of this treadmill of pharmaceutical intervention. I want something different. How did you get the idea to come off? Did you have any idea how hard it would be? As I got older in college, it became, I think that's when it became a real tipping point. I began to slowly wake up and question the effects, these drugs we're having on me. I started realizing that the medication I had always been told we're helping me, might actually be causing me harm, but of course, same as always when I brought those concerns up to my doctor, asking if these medications could be harming me. I was doing my own research, seeing other people going through some things and explaining some harms from antidepressants, and I was like, could they cause brain damage? I've been on them my whole life. How do I know who I am underneath? Basically, I was dismissed and he told me that these fears were simply symptoms of my underlying OCD and anxiety, and that I actually needed higher doses of the SSRI to treat it effectively, and I wasn't at the therapeutic dose. He would constantly be like, "Hey, you need to go higher and higher." I was 23, I had graduated college, and I was like, "Okay, it's finally time to come off. I want to see who I am underneath at all. What is my baseline?" Despite the fact that I had been on these drugs my entire life, all while my brain was literally developing, he tapered me off over the course of just six short weeks. Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, but here's the thing. He wasn't technically being rectilized, he was following the standard medical guidelines, doctors are taught to use. This is actually far too fast and can be a really dangerous, and that's, it led me into a withdrawal crisis, and so the withdrawal from the SSRIs dropped me into a living nightmare of non-stop physical and psychological torment. The pain was like, unlike anything I had ever known, can you describe it? So, basically that doctor directed rapid taper, triggered a life altering withdrawal, meaning so it really felt like my life changed overnight. I became better at in, disabled, suicidal. It was like a chemically induced anxiety and terror, and my brain felt like it was on fire. Every sound, light, and movement literally felt like an attack on my raw exposed nervous system. I experienced acathesia, which is an extremely, so acathesia is a chemically induced neurological state of terror and inner agitation, and that it can become unbearable and it leads a lot of people to commit suicide and it happens a lot in withdrawal. This is a disease that Jordan Peterson has now. His daughter, Michaela Peterson, came on the show a couple months back if you guys missed that episode and she described acathesia and what her dad is now going through, which her dad has been off Benzo's, which is what I believe he was struggling with. He's been off meds for a while, but this is a withdrawal symptom that has popped up way later. So sometimes your withdrawal symptoms are not immediate. They can also show up randomly after you've been off them. You think, "Oh, I'm good. I got off perfectly fine and then bam, you're hit with something." Exactly, and it's so awful what he's going through. I mean, my heart breaks for him, but exactly these, because they're really injuries, right? It's not really a withdrawal, withdrawal is a misnomer. It's really a nervous system injury and it can show up, yeah, it can show up years later. People have something called delayed onset withdrawal and they come off and they feel okay and then three months later they're hit with withdrawal. When I was hit with it, I was crawling out of my skin, rocking back and forth on the floor and fetal position screaming at the top of my lungs. So what did you think was happening? Did you think, "Oh, I actually am depressed. I have anxiety. I have to have these meds," or did you know something about withdrawal at that point to know what was happening to you? Yeah, so I actually, at that point, because I'm a really great researcher, I was on the Reddit forums and I actually came across a site called Surviving Antidepressants, which is an online peer support forum with Mill millions of users, people who are in withdrawal, go to this as a resource to document withdrawal symptoms, help people safely taper off. And I found this and I read through all the stories and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in withdrawal." Like this is exactly what I'm going through. And I printed out some of the stories from the forums and I brought it to my doctor and I told him I'm in withdrawal from the SSRI. He dismissed it immediately. He said that the medication could not be causing my symptoms and that this isn't withdrawal because withdrawal is mild and short-lived. And I was told, again, what I have been told my whole life, this is proof my underlying condition is worsening and exactly why I needed to be on the antidepressant in the first place. So what did you do? So basically after that I was left, I had no support. So essentially I felt completely trapped inside this life-altering neurological crisis that no one around me seemed to understand or believe. It was profoundly traumatizing to be suffering so severely while being told a very thing, harming me, could not possibly be the cause. So here I am struggling. I can't escape the torment inside my own body. The more I desperately tried to explain to the people around me what was happening, the more my suffering was pathologized and used to evidence that I was mentally unwell. Eventually what I had to do was, so in that really intense 24/7 chemical torture, unrelenting withdrawal, I wasn't that state for about four months, like constantly, staying alive during that time really was my only goal because the suffering was relentless, just like stay alive. And my doctor kept telling my parents, this was my mental illness, not withdrawal. Did you guys think to go get a second opinion at that point or not yet? Not yet. I was just so impaired, I couldn't even leave the house. And you're how old at this point? I was 23 still. And I lost 20 pounds. I couldn't eat. I couldn't shower. I couldn't take care of myself. I was completely disabled. Yeah, completely disabled. No school, no work, nothing. Absolutely nothing. Yeah, I became completely bedridden, unable to care for myself. It really is hard to capture with words what this felt like because it is so indescribable. But every second of the day was unbearable. So I did, eventually at the end of the four months, I was in and out of emergency room. So I was like, I need to figure out what to do. But I would tell them what happened to me. I'm in withdrawal, basically looking for help. Please, someone helped me because my doctor wasn't helping me. I was dismissed. They basically said the same thing. The doctor tried to say that I was bipolar, that I had developed bipolar disorder and wanted to put me on more medication. I knew that wasn't true. And I just, I just was trying to survive something that no one seemed to understand around me. So eventually, I guess long story short, I eventually reinstate it. And I really had no choice. My only option was the reinstate because the withdrawal was just so severe in life altering. I haven't told my full, full story yet, but I actually have been through withdrawal twice. And I actually, so I actually about a year later, I knew I still needed to come off because the medication itself made me feel so awful. But I also felt trapped because my first withdrawal experience had been so traumatic. But I knew I had to go more slowly. The problem was, which I quickly realized is no doctor knew how to help me do that. They leave, they receive no education on how to safely help patients come off of them. So I literally went from doctor after doctor desperately hoping someone could help me taper safely. But no one knew how to taper. And you know, they only knew how to take me off over the relatively large dose reductions over a few weeks, which was what originally had injured me. What medication is it that you really struggle with the most getting off? So at that point, and I think that's actually an important thing to mention is so the polypharmacy that was in like my early adolescence childhood. But as I got into like high school, I remained only on like anti depressants and on and off benzos. So but anti depressants are the one drug that I took continuously throughout my entire life. Okay. And which one? Fluvoxatine. Okay. So it started with Prozac. And then in college, I switched over to Fluvox because I actually wasn't feeling good. So it's interesting. No one's asked me that. So I haven't gotten into that yet. But so yeah, in college, I had been on Prozac my whole life. And then in college, it was sophomore year. I switched over to Fluvox mean. Which is like an older generation anti depressant. And actually when he switched me over, he had me like he had me take them both at the same time for like a couple days and then just take the flu box. And I actually had a very severe, I'm remembering now I had a very severe reaction when we did that when I switched over. And I think I was experiencing like academia then because I remember like calling my mom crying and just being like, I feel like I don't I couldn't explain what's happening. Like I felt crazy and I anxious and just it really was hard to put into words. But of course by doctor didn't understand. And he was like, you're fine. You're fine. Like that's just you just need to be on a higher dose. That's literally all he would say. So when I eventually did come off, I was just on an anti depressant. And it was Fluvoxamine that I was on. And I was on 150 milligrams. Oh my word. Okay. So you're going through the crazy withdrawal stuff. I'm assuming then you're like, I got to get back on like because you're doctor shopping. You're trying to find somebody help you. Do you or do you eventually find somebody that does know what they're doing? I think the last straw was I went to a psychiatrist and he said my desire for a slow taper was itself a symptom of my OCD. I can't. I can't. I know. I people are ruining lives. Yes, they are. They're completely destroying people's lives. I just I have like, I mean, you probably feel as I way, but I'm like throwing these people in prison. Yes. How I feel. Absolutely. It's a complete. It's it's so unregulated. I don't understand how they can it's just like the Wild West, how they can just take people off like this. And I mean, one doctor actually at one point said I could just come off cold turkey. And I would feel like I had the flu for a couple of weeks. Oh my word. That's so dangerous. I mean, so you know, so eventually I was forced to learn through online support communities like surviving anti depressants, which has become a lifeline for the millions of people in withdrawal. So there is where patients shared tapering strategies on how to safely come off using like little micro doses. You essentially like I had to like make so just to give some background. So another major barrier is pharmaceutical companies don't manufacture doses small enough for the actual gradual tapering many patients need to come off. So I had to basically open my capsule, count out the beads with little tweezers and weigh them on a jewelry scale just to like slowly reduce down. And I tried making very tiny cuts, but even like the smallest destabilized my nervous system. And I think within days that actually somehow me trying to taper through me back into severe withdrawal. It was such a nightmare. And then another doctor, because at this point, I was kind of still seeking out doctors. I didn't know what to do. Actually, he misinterpreted my withdrawal symptoms as an underlying mood disorder. And then he actually prescribed me zyprexo, which is a very heavy hitting anti psychotic, which I should have never been given. It's so inappropriate. And I had a very severe adverse reaction after taking it. Oh my word. I couldn't speak. I was getting lost in my own house. At one point, I actually had to relearn basic functions. My entire body went numb. Like I lost all my senses. Are you an only child? No, I'm the middle child. So there's three of us. Were your other siblings like medicalized and had all this happen to or only you? No, so they were as well. Actually, we were all my whole family was on psychiatric drugs. We had the family's psychiatrist that was on call. My sister, my brother was put on stimulants really young. Did you grow up here in the DC area where we're recording? No, I grew up in Pennsylvania and around the Philly area. I was just curious if that was like a cultural thing around here. So did your siblings also have to go through this entire thing just like you of the withdrawal or you have it the worst? I had it the worst. I also was the one. I started the youngest like my sister was put on more in high school time. She was on antidepressants, but she she was only on for a short period of time. So she was able to come off. I'm just going to put myself in your parent shoes. When you start going through all of this, was it difficult to get your parents on board because if I'm a mom or I'm a dad and I'm seeing what my child's going through, I mean, obviously you want to rationalize it in so many different ways so that you're not taking responsibility like it's because of my decisions that my child is in this position. So at first, were they like, no, like this isn't what it is. I mean, or were they immediately on board like we believe you we made a mistake? Like was it easy to get them on board with you trying to get off? Absolutely. Yeah. So it was not they my parents didn't believe me as well, but also I don't blame them for that. That I'm not angry at them because I know that they were just listening to the doctor. They were taught to trust the expert. So what did it take for them to finally be like, okay, something - Horrible's happened. - What I would do is I would pull up YouTube videos of like Dr. Yosef with During and-- - On the show, yep. Yeah, yeah, he's great. And just different people within our withdrawal community, different leaders within the space. I would show her different websites. I think it was really what like the turning point where they started to believe me is when I would show them the videos of other patients and then doctors like who had the white coat on talking about it 'cause then it really legitimized it for them because then it's not just coming from me. I think that's what really made them believe me and I would force them to sit down in the living room like you need to watch this. 'Cause I would get really upset that they didn't believe me. Like that can people in withdrawal, if you're not believed, that can be like enough to make people suicidal and wanna take their lives because you feel so isolated. Like you know, I realized that makes sense. I forgot to add a piece of my story. So when I wanted to come off again, I went to a doctor who was like, "You can just come off cold turkey." And I kind of knew that wasn't the right thing to do, but I was already really suffering. I felt like the medication was poisoning me. So I stopped cold turkey. So that really damaged my nervous system further. And then I went right back into the withdrawal crisis that I had barely escaped the first time. And then after that, I spent another couple months housebound disabled. It was like, it had repeated itself. And then eventually that's where the Ziprexa came into play. I went to a doctor and I was explaining my withdrawal symptoms and he thought it was an underlying mood disorder. So he gave me Ziprexa a very heavy hitting anti-psychotic that caused a very serious adverse reaction. Not a lot of people know this, but when you were in withdrawal, adding more psychiatric drugs on top of it when your nervous system's already sensitized can actually injure you further. So that just, I developed like seizure like episodes where I would completely like lose control of my body. I would become like paralyzed. Like while vomiting all over myself, I would have excruciating burning nerve pain. Like it just completely set my nervous system back. And then eventually I stopped the Ziprexa. I only took that for nine days. But I think the quick tapers along with the Ziprexa exposure really left me with lasting damage. So essentially I had to reinstate the anti-depressant again because I was like, oh my gosh, I'm still in withdrawal. I can't stabilize. But the problem was after I had reinstate it this time, the damage did not go away. So it had triggered the doctor, sorry, the quick tapers had triggered a condition known as severe protracted withdrawal injury, which is essentially a nervous system injury caused by stopping anti-depressants too quickly. And that left me with debilitating neurological and physical symptoms that I've been struggling with every single day for the past seven years. And so essentially after a lifetime on anti-depressants, my body had become physiologically dependent upon them. And so I'm now 30 years old and I am still trapped on the same anti-depressant I was given as a child. I literally cannot come off. Safely trying to come off has been one of the hardest things I've ever done. I really want to come off. I know I don't need it, but the withdrawal is so terrible that even like little microscopic reductions of less than 1% can put me into a wave where I'm really debilitated again. So you've been trying to get off anti-depressants now for seven years after being on them your entire life, even as a child. And you started at 150 milligrams. And after seven years of slowly trying to taper off what are you at now? - Yeah, so I'm actually at 56.4. I know that's kind of an odd number, but that's where I am now. I've been going very, very slow. Like I literally go less than 1% and you do that for how long? - Oh yeah, so I hold for about a couple months. I usually need a couple months in between because that's all my nervous system can really tolerate anything faster than that. I can get really, really sick and I still want to have some quality of life. My baseline, you know, not to complain, but I don't have a great baseline in quality of life, but I know that it also can be much worse. I mean, so many people in withdrawal in our community take their lives because it's just years and years of unrelenting symptoms that don't go away. So you're at the age where you should be, you know, ideally in a relationship, moving towards marriage, having children. How has this impacted your ability to just have a normal romantic life? - It's really impacted it because I don't like feel that drive to like connect with other people romantically anymore if that makes sense. I used to have that intact 1,000%. That was really taken away with the withdrawal injury. I can't, I don't really, it's just that thing inside of you that makes you feel like physically attracted to someone. Like it's very, it's like blunted. It's not there. - So if you were going to like, I don't know, just society would describe, would say you're asexual, right? So here's, this is a hot take, right? You can disagree or agree. I had on somebody recently about SSRI's and I said this. So my hot take is I think everybody who thinks they're asexual is on SSRI's. I think it's a drug symptom. I don't think that's a real thing, right? And you could disagree, I don't know. But like what you're describing, I think people will be like, you're just asexual. Put like really a drug withdrawal. And it's just a symptom and it's a side effect. Making you feel like you're not attracted to anybody. I just would love to pull the amount of people who claim like definitively, no, no, I know I'm asexual. I'm not attracted to either sex. I would just be very curious to see a massive study done to see how many of them are on anti-depressants. Absolutely. It's just like a hot take for me. Oh, it's true. I believe that. There's a lot of women too who are RH, because I'm 33. And they've been on SSRI's for years and they are married and they're wanting to have a baby. And their doctors are saying, well, SSRI's are completely safe. It's okay for you to get pregnant and then just be on them because it's just going to be too hard to get off right now while you have a baby. And my other hot take is that if you are somebody listening and you are on SSRI's, you should not get pregnant until you are fully off of this drug. We know, and I've interviewed doctors on this. We know that there are severe impacts on babies in utero who are developing what their mother is on SSRI's. So sometimes I think as adults, we are required to do hard things for children. Children should never be required to do hard things for adults. And so I know that some people say, I really want to have a baby. I want to have a family. I'm in this window. And my thing is, I think you've got to do the hard thing which is to try as long as it takes to taper off of these drugs before getting pregnant, even though I know how awful that is to have to wait to have a family when you have one of a family. But I think that's what's required of us as adults. What are your thoughts? I a thousand percent agree. And I've actually contemplated this myself. I'm like, I would love one day to have children and start a family. But how am I going to be able to do that if I'm literally trapped on antidepressants? Because I would never want to get pregnant while on that. I would not put my child at risk for that because I've seen that it can, like you said, like affect the child and cause really severe effects. And I have my one friend. She was pregnant and she was on antidepressants. And when she gave birth, the baby was in withdrawal from antidepressants. And it was shaking and just, it's really scary. You guys know I'm obsessive about the foundations of health. And one thing most people completely overlook, especially in the dark winter months, is light exposure. Humans evolved with sunlight, okay? When winter hits, days get shorter. We spend more time indoors and we lose exposure not just to visible light, but to red in your infrared light, which play a real biological role in how our cells function. Red in your infrared light have been studied for their ability to support mitochondrial function, which helps drive cellular energy production. That matters for muscle recovery, inflammation, skin health, circulation, sleep quality, and overall daily energy. When your cells function better, everything works better. That is why red light therapy is a non-negotiable in my routine and why I use my Juve. By the way, just got my mom a Juve. This was really important because she's experiencing a lot of arthritic types of complications. What sets Juve apart is that it actually works. Juve uses clinically proven wavelengths, delivers a safe and effective dose of light and offers true medical grade panels that are independently tested and safety certified. That is critical because there are a lot of fake devices out there using the wrong wavelengths with zero testing. Oh my gosh, please be careful when you're ordering online. I personally have used Juve daily for, oh my gosh. It was like during the pandemic, I got my first Juve maybe 2021. So it's been like five years, all right? I use it in the morning about 10 minutes and sometimes I'll do it at night to wind down literally 10 minutes. There's a timer on there. I can read my Bible, I can do my devotions. I can also sit and silence. You can sit, close your eyes, listen to a podcast. It's become one of the easiest, most consistent tools in my wellness routine. Also, put it on and have it on you and your baby as you are breastfeeding. I also love that Juve offers a wide range. range of options, whether you want targeted treatment or a full body set up in your house. If you want to support your health at the cellular level, especially during winter, Juve makes it simple. Go to Juve.com/Alex. It's j-o-o-v-v.com/Alex to get an exclusive offer in your checkout, juve.com j-o-o-v-v.com/Alex. Some exclusions apply. Have you noticed that every food company in America has collectively decided that your dessert should taste like drywall? They're like, "Here's our new protein cookie. It's gluten-free, dairy-free, joy-free, and it tastes like the inside of a home depot." No! If I'm eating something called "cookies and cream," I want it to taste like "cookies and cream," not punishment. That's why I'm obsessed with cowboy colostrums brand-new "cookies and cream flavor." Somehow they made first milking colostrum from grass-fed American cows taste like dessert without turning it into junk. And yes, before anyone asks, the baby calves get their share first. Now, I'm just going to say, there is a very famous fast-food restaurant that's restaurants close on Sundays, Ringabelle. They're known for their "cookies and cream" milkshake, Ringabelle. The cowboy colostrum, "cookies and cream," flavor tastes exactly like that if you put it in glass of milk. Literally, exact. You would not tell the difference. And you could add some ice, I guess, if you wanted to thicken it up, but it is literally the same product. This is not the skim milk version of colostrum either, which is what a lot of brands are doing. You're not even getting the best product. Cowboy uses whole first milking colostrum collected within the first four to six hours after birth, which means it's naturally packed with immunoglobulins and other bioactive compounds to support immunity, gut health, healthy skin and hair, and recovery after training. It is fluffy, it is creamy, it froths into coffee. You can throw it in a smoothie, mix it into water, a milkshake, like I said, or just stare lovingly at the container like I do. Seriously, the "cookies and cream" flavor is unbelievable. Go to CowboyColostrum.com, use code "Alex25" for 25% off. What does colostrum do? It helps your immune system, okay? You're going to have stronger immune system. It's going to fix gut issues. It's going to help your hair skin and nails. That's CowboyColostrum.com, use code "Alex25" for 25% off. And so explain the reality here when it comes to government guidance on these drugs, pharmaceutical guidance on these drugs. They're saying things to pregnant women. It's completely safe to take while pregnant. They're saying things to people like you, like you can just stop cold turkey. Or these are just symptoms of your disease coming back. You're just super mentally ill. It's not withdrawal. Withdraw is a few days, it shouldn't take years. These are experts, quote unquote, that are given this terrible advice. I guess where are we at with the FDA, accurately warning people of side effects of antidepressants? At this point, the FDA, there is absolutely no warning whatsoever that people can know they can be irreversibly injured by antidepressants. I'm fighting to get black box warnings on antidepressants for PSSD and protracted withdrawal injury. And PSSD is post SSRI sexual dysfunction. What does that mean? PSSD post SSRI sexual dysfunction is a devastating neurological injury that can occur after taking an SSRI. So most people have heard that SSRIs can cause sexual dysfunction while you're taking them. But no one is warned that for some people, these side effects never go away. So even after the drug has been discontinued and has completely left your body, the dysfunction remains meaning people are left with permanent genital numbness and total loss of internal sensation and the inability to ever orgasm ever again through essentially nervous system damage. And there's also like emotional blunting, like you don't feel passion or joy or happy or even sad. You're just void of emotion. Exactly. And I think that actually is the worst of it. So it can completely erase sexual desire and romantic attraction, leaving people unable to experience like intismissier or feel love. But many people describe becoming effectively chemically asexual, like we were talking about. And you know, almost like their sexuality has been irreversibly and chemically like permanently switched off and kind of leaving them as though they have been chemically castrated and robbed of an essential part of their humanity. But of course this injury reaches far beyond the sexual dysfunction because people are, you know, people are not warned that anti-depressants have the capacity to permanently neurologically sever the fundamental human capacities that allow us to feel love, fall in love, connect and bond with others, experience empathy, joy, excitement. It strips away and disconnects us from emotional experiences that make life worth living in a way that feels like an actual chemical lobotomy. And I think this doesn't get talked about a lot with PSSD. A lot of people really don't know this is that some people also experience severe cognitive impairment with PSSD, so they get like a complete like blank mind and like a loss of their inner dialogue. Have that. I do. I do believe that I have that to an extent. Wait, so when you are not talking, can you talk inside your head? Not really. It's like, it's blocked for me and that's, that is, was really scary when it first happened. Like it literally felt like something was severed from it. So when you're reading a book, you don't hear like your own voice in your head reading. And you know what's funny? I even have trouble reading books because it's hard for me to like process what I'm reading and like comprehend it. So I've actually really struggled with that because what do you do audio books? I can do that or like watch TikTok videos. Also, I've never been much of a reader. But it's so, I don't think people realize how disabling that can be because inside your internal world is like your imagination, your creativity, your like your ability to access your own thoughts, like that's so it essentially like it feels, it feels like being completely dead on the inside while you're kind of merely just existing and you're kind of trapped as a prisoner in your own body, basically forced to watch your life pass by not being able to truly experience or connect or participate with your own existence and life in the way that you once could. Another thing is what's so scary is PSSD can occur even after a brief exposure and has been documented even after one single dose. And we don't know who's going to get it. We just don't know and it's difficult to put into words how traumatizing that is for the people who have it because these are not minor side effects. These are like invisible disabilities that people can't even imagine how devastating and deep it goes. These are like fundamental neurological systems tied to the very essence of who you are. There's no warnings about PSSD on SSRs currently. No, not at all. So is the FDA looking into it? Yes. So people are blindsided by this harm from antidepressants because doctors have absolutely no idea this risks even exist. It's not on the FDA drug label. You know, there's no way for patients to know that the general numbness, emotional blunting and cognitive dysfunction can in some cases be irreversible. You may never return to your baseline. That is nowhere on the label. There's no mention of PSSD. There's no mention of permanent effects that you may never be the same. So this isn't just something patients have been saying for long, but leading scientists and physicians who have been studying and documenting PSSD for years actually filed a formal citizens petition urging the FDA to warn patients that SSRs can in some cases lead to permanent sexual dysfunction after the medication is stopped. They told the FDA, you need to update your warning labels like so patients can probably properly be warned. So under federal law, the FDA was required to respond to this petition within 180 days. Instead, the petition was unanswered for more than six years. Oh my gosh. Eventually actually one of the leading scientists had to sue the FDA to compel a response from them. And what is so unfair is the case was dismissed on procedural grounds. And not because of any scientific concerns or evidence that PSSD was disproven because we have so much evidence that it's real. So if there isn't a warning on the label, doctors can't counsel the patient. Patients have no way of understanding the full scope of the risk before they take antidepressants. So how do we get them to do this? So really it's a really great question. Is it literally just making noise like doing podcasts and protests and things like that? Yeah, exactly. And I think that's what it's going to take is just raising awareness on social media, continuing people who have been injured by this, like continuing to share their story, like anyone who's going through this, it's just important if it's hard because the people who are suffering from this are so sick that they, some of them just can't leave their house, like they're just fighting to survive. And it's also, it can be a bit embarrassing, it's hard to talk about, but there's, there's, it's happening to hundreds of thousands of people more than we probably even know. Yeah, I don't know what it's going to take, but I know it's going to happen. It will happen. Your generation probably, I mean, would be the first that has been medicalized potentially from childhood through adulthood, right? And then what does that look like? Yeah. So now like all the people who are my age who are trying to come off the antidepressants are being tapered like so rapidly and it's inducing brain damage in hundreds of thousands of people. Despite antidepressants being prescribed to millions of people long-term, there's zero evidence based guidelines to guide doctors and how to taper patients off safely. The tapering guidance doctors rely on came from studies of people who had taken antidepressants for only 8 to 12 weeks. based on those limited studies, withdrawal was believed to be mild and short-lived. But you can put kids like yourself on them as young as six or seven years old. - Right, exactly, I mean, exactly. So the good news is that this is finally beginning to change. Like thanks to Secretary Kennedy's leadership, HHS and SAMHSA, actually are convening a technical expert panel of clinicians, researchers, and patients to help develop evidence-based guidelines for clinicians to help patients safely taper off anti-depressants. I was actually part of that panel and I was very honored to be there. And as someone whose life was profoundly shaped by the lack of evidence-based guidelines, the fact that I could have a seat at the table to help inform the guidelines, I wish had existed when I came off these medications is incredible, and it's really gonna save so many lives, because SSRIs, they're not benign. They were powerful brain altering psychoactive substances when taken every single day for months or years, the brain and nervous system change and adapt to their continuous presence. And over time, the nervous system becomes physically dependent on them, just as you can with benzodiazepines. That means coming off can be incredibly difficult and even dangerous, especially for people who have been on long-term like I was. So it needs to be reduced gradually, but way more slower than doctors and patients even realized. And but the problem is patients are still being told by their doctors to taper their antidepressant over just two to four weeks, using the same one size fits all tapering schedule regardless of whether you've been on the medication for one month or for 10 years. This is genuinely my number one beauty addiction right now. And if you've ever seen me with no makeup on, but my skin somehow looks alive, it is because I am using Primally Peer's Plumping Serum. I love that Primally Peer's whole philosophy is really rooted in fewer, better ingredients and products that nourish your skin instead of covering it up. I have become way more ingredient conscious over the last few years, especially with products that I use every single morning. I like knowing that those formulas are free from synthetic fragrance, PFAS, and a lot of filler ingredients that you see in conventional beauty. The serum itself is really unique. It has this really faint orange tint from astazamthin, which is one of nature's powerful anti-oxidants. It gives my bare skin the tiniest bit of warm thing color, almost like I've been outside for a little while instead of looking washed out. I really appreciate that so much because I don't always want to look like I'm wearing foundation. It also has ingredients like green coffee oil, castor oil, pomegranate seed oil, and bachoucule, a botanical alternative to retinol to help hydrate, support collagen, improve elasticity, and leave your skin looking plump. Use code Alex Clarke to get 15% off your Primally Peer purchase that's PrimallyPeer.com code Alex Clarke for 15% off anything on the site. Being an adult is basically just finding out that everything important requires followup. You think that you've handled something once and then five years later, someone's like, no, that expired, that change, that was never processed, good luck. That's voter registration. People assume that they're fine because they registered once in college or because they voted a few years ago or because they have this touching faith in administrative competence. Meanwhile, all it takes is moving homes, even within the same state, changing your name, not voting in a while, or some random outdated info, and suddenly you've got a problem. Here's what's wild. Tens of millions of eligible Americans either aren't registered or aren't even sure if they are. So let's not do the thing where we find out too late and then act shocked, let's just be adults for 30 seconds. Go to realAlexClark.com/vote. I made it really simple. You can check your registration status. That's all it does. Just tells you if you're registered to vote or not, and if you're not, register you to vote. Not even telling you who to vote for. RealAlexClark.com/vote. Right now in America, one in how many people are on anti-depressants? I believe it's one in six Americans, but I would have to check up on that. Yeah, it's a very, I mean, it's a lot. A lot of people. It's a lot of people. So essentially, it's very likely that you're listening to this and you're on an SSRI or somebody that you love or know is, or even just that follow you on social media. It is imperative, which is what Daniel is saying, like our activism on how to fix this problem and warn people. We're not saying to ban SSRIs. We're not saying nobody should be allowed to take them. If you hear all this and you think I wanna be on this drug, I mean, we have the freedom to do that, right? I feel the same way about vaccines. If you hear about all the different risks with vaccines, and you say I wanna take all 90 of them, be my guest. It is your right to do that. As long as you have informed consent, which is what you and your parents were not given when you were seven years old. And so what we have is people who are like Danielle and trapped in this prison and need to have a way off. So the best thing that you could do listening to this show is share this episode on your stories, on your Facebook, on X, on TikTok, text it in your group chat and just say, did you just gotta listen to this girl's story who has been on SSRIs and she was a kid? Because without people hearing this, I mean, I think this is the most effective thing that you could be doing is like clips of this, going on TikTok to help the next generation understand the risks. And then they can decide if they wanna take it. Exactly. And I feel like that's where everyone kind of learns their information from through social media. So yeah, I think that is the most powerful way. It's just keeps sharing and bringing awareness on social media and eventually everyone is going to know about this. And that's my goal. And I really liked what you said about informed consent because that's what it's all about. This isn't about no one's banning medications, no one's saying you can't take this medication. It's not about taking them away. It's the fact we wanna give you the true risks that there is because it's unethical to withhold them from people. Yeah. And once you hear all those risks, it's your choice. Whether you wanna take it or not and but you need to be given all the information so you can make an informed decision. But without that, people are blinded by life-altering risks. They were never warned about and that's not fair. Do you believe that someday in the future, your brain will be healed? Yes, I do. I do believe in healing. And I think with these nervous system injuries, it can just be really, really slow. Yes, I do believe one day I will heal and get myself back. What questions should parents ask their doctor before giving their kid any type of medication? That's a really good question because right now, we're lied to about how these drugs even work, right? So we're told they correct like a chemical imbalance in the brain, which is not true. It's completely unscientific. So I think people need to know about the truth about what these drugs do and what these drugs don't do. Yeah, and I'll just add, I think if you're a parent who's thinking about even something like Ritalin for your kid, because your kid's teacher is saying that they should be on it. My first question would be, okay, do you understand the risks and side effect profile of this drug? And then also, what is your training on how to successfully taper my child off? What is your off-ramp plan? Yes. How long do you anticipate my child needs to be on this drug? If they have no answer, they're like, well, I don't know whenever they want to get off. Nope, nope. You have no idea what you're doing. And I think you might have some doctors that you love, but you mentioned Dr. Yosef. Yes. What is it, Whitt Doring? Whitt Doring. And there's a lot of great, so there's only a few of them. Roger Macphillin. Roger Macphillin. Actually, I work with a doctor now. Dr. Jennifer Geogordano, and she is a psychiatrist that only helps people taper off psychiatric medications. So she's withdrawal informed, and she understands how to do it safely. What are the support groups online that you like and recommend? Yeah, so surviving antidepressants is great. There's so many. Reddit. Reddit, yeah, honestly, that's where you can get a lot of real information that's not censored. Another thing we're fighting for besides updating the labels is we really need the NIH to do studies on the underlying mechanism behind these injuries, these antidepressant injuries. Because we have reason to believe that PSSD could possibly get better, people could get better. There could be therapies for them. Have you ever reached out to Dr. J. Baudicharia, the NIH, and said, can I just have a meeting while you're here in DC? I've seen him at the Mahan Nets events, but no, I haven't. He is the kindest, best guy. He seems so kind. He is amazing. He's a Christian. I think if you sent an email and just said, I would just really, really love, could I please have a half hour of your time? I really think that he would make it happen. Really? Yeah. I would take the chance and do it. That's a really good advice. Thank you. I never thought to even do that because that was something. That's really simple. They work for us. People forget. They work for us. Right. When we need something like that, it's like we just got to bang on their door or shout from the rooftops via social media to tag them and get their attention. I don't even tell you. Doing that with other issues that I really have been passionate about and tagging people in Congress, whatever, that gets their attention quick. Really? They're very embarrassed and they do not like being called out and that it pains them to look bad. They're like, what can we do? What does this person want? It does make a difference to just go meet with your representatives and say, can I have a meeting with you? Let me talk to you about what's happened to me. You could do that. Even just email the office of your representatives where you live and say, hey, I'm in DC. asking their office, when does this person have time for me to pop in for 15 minutes to tell them my story? That could have another huge effect on getting this message out. Absolutely, because I think I actually here's another example of my free and injury, I was going to say something and I completely lost it, but that happens a lot. And it's the reality of these injuries. And I say that to you, because I want to help you, but also for everybody listening, everybody has some story, everybody has something going on in their community that they want to see changed, and so no matter what that is, we do have incredible power as a people to reach out and get these issues talked about and looked into. And that's what they're there for. They literally sit here on Capitol Hill and they're like, "Who do I have a meeting with today?" And if nobody calls and nobody emails and nobody shows up, they're like, "Well, I guess I can just do the status quo, I can just keep doing what I've been doing." So it's important, so you should do it. I think these stories, when you share your personal story, can really cut through and make people get it and want to help you, because I think when people hear about PSSD, they are so shocked to hear that this is happening to people. My friend Lauren Friedman, her video on Twitter went viral from the Maha Institute over a medicalization summit where she shared her story about having PSSD, not being able to fill love for her mother, how her genitals are numb like the back of her elbow. And I think when people see that, I think first, so many people see that, I'm like, "Wait, I think I have this too." People don't realize they have PSSD. A lot of people put the pieces together, but when people see these stories, I think they can just be so powerful and make waves and bring awareness, and I've made it my life's mission to push these issues forward to bring national awareness to these issues. But also, the reforms necessary to protect the harm that happened to me and so many others to prevent it from happening to others. You're doing an excellent job, I'm so proud of you, everyone in this audience is proud of you. What is your social media? Where can people follow along your story and help out? Yeah, so I'm on Instagram under Daniel Ganski, and I'm also on Twitter at Daniel Ganski and TikTok, same thing. I ask every guest this to end every episode. If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, it could be physical, emotional or spiritual, what would that remedy be? Trying the keto diet, eating clean, that's something that I've noticed has really helped me in healing my cognition. I believe food is medicine and can really affect your brain and your body and how you feel. I think that something people don't always put together is that the food you eat literally affects everything about you. So that's been pretty life-changing for me actually in healing. That's a great one. That's a great one. Do you follow Dr. Chris Palmer's work on food in the brain and he is so phenomenal. I want to get him on the show really badly. Daniel, you're a superstar, you're a hero to so many, and we're excited to follow along your journey and we're really rooting for you. Thank you for coming on Culture Pathakary. Thank you so much for having me. This has been incredible. Whether you agreed with everything that you heard today or not, one thing is hard to ignore. Informed consent only works if people are actually informed. Medicine evolves because people are willing to question what everybody else accepts. New episodes come out every Monday and Thursday at 6 p.m. Pacific 9 p.m. Eastern, wherever you listen to podcasts, please leave us a five star view on Apple or Spotify to support Danielle. This episode is crucial to share to every group chat that you're in and also your Instagram story. This content is for informational purposes only and is not intended to be taken as medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional regarding any questions or decisions related to your health or medical care. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Pathakary.