Speaker 1Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about addiction and mental health recovery. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out to me on any social media platform at recoveringoutloudpod or by email at recoveringoutloudpod at gmail.com. Enjoy the show. Thanks, Heather. Thanks so much for coming down. I got introduced to you from your cousin, Julie, who is like my day one OG listener. I love her to death. Thank you so much. But yeah, she's great. She sent me a message the other day that just like nearly made me cry. I was talking about getting fired at work and yeah, she just, she sent me a message. She goes, you know, don't worry about it. It happened for a reason. And this is what you should do. You know, this is what you should do. This is what you should do. You know, put your phone down for the weekend, take your wife out and do something nice and just forget about it. And I was like, God damn, like, Oh, that was so, I needed to hear that. You know, it's just nice to have people in your corner. And I was thinking about this today, but I can, this is something I'm working on today. I can have a million people tell me, good job. You're doing great. You're helping people, you know, uh, good on you. And then it's never, it's still never enough. Right. And it's like, I started this podcast to stay sober myself, which is, you know, today check. I'm staying sober, you know, goal accomplished, which is great. And I have to remind myself that that's a big deal because I couldn't get six minutes together at, at one point in my life. Um, but also to at least, you know, try and help at least one person. Right. I always try to, I say a prayer before I do every episode. I'm like, help me help one person, you know? And if I've done that, I've done my job, but I have to be reminded of that. I have to work on that because I don't know if you're anything like me, but I, it's never enough. You know, I always want more. Right. And it was the same with drugs. I always was the same with, you know, comments, likes, love from other people, uh, gambling, whatever, whatever the case may be. Right. So why don't we do this? Why don't you, um, introduce yourself a little bit, Heather, tell us, uh, how you got into recovery and how you, you came to be who you are today.
Speaker 2So my name is Heather. I'm an addict. Um, well I was homeless. I was homeless for about two years. Um, just using, stealing, doing whatever I could to, to use and remember laying in that park. And for two weeks I prayed every morning crying, just, God, please send me somebody to help me. I don't want this life anymore. And my cousin ended up showing up looking for me. And, uh, I remember sitting there and, uh, I w he was telling me his story to be honest. I wasn't listening. I wasn't really hearing much. I just wanted to use. Right. Um, but then I remember him saying to me, he's like, so how's life, Heather? I'm like, Oh, life. Great. He's like, Heather, you're homeless. I'm like, yeah, but I don't have to answer to anyone. I can come and go as I please and do what I want. He goes, I got an idea. How about we get a mirror and you can tell me how great life is. And that's when my heart sunk. And I'm like, all right, let's, uh, let's go get some help. So I went to treatment for six months. Um, and then went home. I didn't want to go home. I was like, can I stay longer? They're like, no, it's time for you to go. And six days later I relapsed. I didn't want to come back to Toronto because it just, all the people I knew in Toronto were just like us. Right. That's, I grew up with them. I grew up here my whole life. So I knew, I know a lot of people from the West end all the way downtown. Right. So it was hard. And then, so I went hard for 24 hours and then, uh, I got sober for two months being down here. Speaker 2 : And then. Speaker 1 : On my two month day, I went and celebrated at the bar and I went back out for a month. And now today I have just 14 months sober. Speaker 2 : Awesome. Speaker 1 : Yeah. It's a struggle though. Right? Like, you know, they, I remember hearing people say like after your first year, that's when the work begins and I'm like, what are you talking about? But it's true. Like the last two months I've been struggling and it's because emotions, what are emotions? I don't know what emotions are. I don't know how to deal with these feelings. Speaker 2 : And what have you. So it's definitely been a struggle the last two months. Do I want to use when I'm super tired? Yeah. Those thoughts come in my head. But other than that, no, but I mean, again, when I'm that whole thing is real hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And when I'm tired, that's, that's the hardest part for me. Like, it's just a constant I'll be laying there and I just, what if I use, but I play that tape forward and I'm like, no, I don't want to. So that's when I call people and get the help I need.
Speaker 1Speaker 1 : What's the fantasy for you? I know everyone's a little bit different, but like for me, it's like, uh, I don't even crave the drugs anymore. It's more so when I have these cravings or, or, um, thoughts that come into my head and they come out of nowhere. Right. There's a reason usually behind it, which I dig deeper in now, but I didn't know before. For me, it's like, I just missed that freedom that you talked about. I don't have to answer to anyone. Right. When you said that, I was like, Oh, I get that.
Speaker 2Speaker 2 : I think it's just getting out of my own head. My thoughts are, are, are crazy. And last week I was sitting there and my head just started spinning and it was so messed up. Like my cousin works at a recovery center and he wasn't answering right then, right there. And then two of my friends weren't answering right then, right there. So it was like, I was back out there all of a sudden, I thought my cousin thinks I've relapsed. Speaker 3 : He's called my two friends and told them not to answer my messages because he's going to come home and drug test me. And I just started freaking out. And then one thing I've learned is writing stuff down for me. I can't think because it just snowballs and gets worse and worse and worse. So what I did is I grabbed my journal, started writing everything down and eventually everything started to make sense again. Right. But it brought me right back. Like I started getting paranoid, looking out my window. Like, and once that happened, I was like, Oh my God, what's going on? What's going to happen? And once that started, I'm like, no, I don't want to feel this way anymore. So I picked up that pen, started writing. And for me, that's how I talk to my higher power. I can't do it in my head. I can't because there's no meaning behind it. It's just, they're just words in my head. Right. So writing is a big, big thing for me.
Speaker 1Speaker 1 : Yeah. And that is, it's funny. As you were talking, I was thinking about that. It's like, um, this kind of, I can't call anyone because like, let's be realistic. People aren't always going to answer when you need them in that moment. Right. And you did everything that, you know, presumably counselors rehab taught you is to reach out when people don't answer. Now what I'm just stuck with this like thought in my head that, uh, I'm thinking about tomorrow. I'm, I'm spinning these stories in my head, which I can relate to. I'm projecting my, my movie onto the world. You know, this person did this, this person, that it's already like I'm and then I'm in a dumpster fire. Uh, I love that though. It's like, I write it down. I, I tell somebody, I pray about it. And that's, it's all the same thing. Right.
Speaker 2Speaker 2 : Yeah. And what, after I was done writing, I called, I called my sponsor. Right. And, uh, she's like, I'm very proud of you. And I'm like, well, I need you. So just as much as you need me. Right. So, and I've, and I, that's what I've just realized, like getting on my knees and praying isn't for everybody. It's not for me. Right. Um, for other people. Sure. But for me, it's journaling. Like even last night before I went to bed, I didn't want to, I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm in a good place. I'm good. But I'm like, no. So instead I just wrote and I thanked God for the day and everything that happened in that day and all the, all the goods that came that day.
Speaker 1Speaker 3 : Yeah. Cause yeah, because for me at least, and I think it's like, once I start getting out of the routine of things, it's very easy. It's like not going to the gym, like all of a sudden a week's gone by and I'm like, I don't really need the gym anymore. My health's not important. Right. Um, and that's something I've been struggling with lately is like getting my ass out of my head, my house out of my head too. Speaker 4 : Yeah. Speaker 3 : I have this social media problem where I just scroll and like, sure. They're all motivational, sober videos and great, but it's like, I feel like shit after.
Speaker 2Speaker 4 : Yeah. I have a problem with that for sure.
Speaker 1Speaker 3 : With scrolling. Speaker 4 : Yeah. Speaker 3 : Yeah. Speaker 4 : What? So sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2Speaker 3 : That's okay. I find in recovery now though, like for me, I was, I've, I became a thief. Right. And stealing was a big thing. And I find that's still one of my, uh, biggest things that go through my head. Like I haven't, but I haven't, I haven't done it. But I'll be in a store and I'll be like, it's just be so much easier just to walk and to get that rush. Right. Like I did it. Yeah. I got away with it. Right. But I haven't because I know eventually what that leads to, it's going to be guilt and I'm going to pick up again. Right. So, but I find that's probably the hardest in my recovery thus far is, is the, is the stealing and it's not from people. It's from corporations. That's how I justify it. Right. But either way, it's no good.
Speaker 1Yeah. Cause to your point, you have to go to bed at night. And am I happy with how I acted today? No. Am I going to tell somebody about it? Maybe, but if I don't, right. It's just, I'm a bad person. I'm a bad person. I'm a bad person I'm using. Right. Um, yeah. Thanks for sharing that. That's, I think that's important to, for people to, to note that we don't, you know, it says in, in the literature, it's like, we are not saints. Right. And when I, I remember when I heard that for the first time, it was like, oh, thank God. Like I'm, I don't have to be perfect in recovery because I'm not, and I don't ever want to be. And it's not, you know, progress, not perfection. Right. Um, but to your point, it's like we quit drugs and we start looking for other things to kind of that rush or, you know, fall back on old behaviors for me it's lying like lying was is a i'll lie about the stupidest shit today and it doesn't even make sense to me sometimes i'm just like why did i do that so i had a therapist that would always tell me like when you tell those little white lies of i don't know um even just like i'm fine when i'm not fine it's like you go back and you say hey like i lied about that right and something happens when you kind of admit even if it's no matter how stupid or inconsequential it builds up and over time now i'm lying about my cravings or
Speaker 2whatever yeah you tell one small lie and you got to back up that lie with another lie it's exhausting you have to remember that first lie right yeah i used to have a i had a recruiter
Speaker 1one time i don't know why i'm remembering this now but i was looking for a job when i got fired from one of my many jobs i've gotten fired for because uh of my drug use you know i just couldn't show up he would always like should i tell them that i uh have been in between jobs and you know i went to treatment and this and that and like that doesn't look good and he's like he wasn't wasn't in the program at all but he's like dude honestly i've done this for a long time it's so much easier just to tell the truth you don't have to go into detail about it but you tell the truth and then you it's exactly what he said he's like you don't have to remember the movie plot that you told this guy and then you're like wait did i tell this guy that or this girl
Speaker 2that or whatever it's exhausting you know i uh i was open at my work i was nervous at first but i ran into somebody at a meeting from your work from my oh no and i like was walking out and i paused and i'm like well this is awkward and i and i asked her like do you think it's it's okay for me to talk about to work about it and i did and i was honest about it and you know a bunch of the women showed up at my one year no i started bawling like oh my god yeah it was pretty beautiful like just the support i have even at work is pretty pretty awesome yeah and i know anonymity is
Speaker 1important for a lot of people and when i i worked in corporate my whole life just recently pivoted over to mental health and i'm in school for social service work now uh to become a counselor hopefully because i don't know i had a moment in rehab this last time where i was hearing one of the counselors talk about his purpose and i i feel like i've never had purpose right other than like helping other addicts and alcoholics which is great that's a huge purpose today still to me right i was meeting with a sponsee on on monday and he called me after and you know i thought it went okay right we think like whatever it's like i'm just doing the next right thing i'm not going to change anyone's life he called me after and he's like man i just wanted to like he's like i'm buzzing like thank you like i i told my wife like i'm really happy to have met you and here i am thinking like whatever it was just a coffee and but i'm you know something must have been said my actions whatever it's like it's a beautiful thing that we we get to be able to not change people's lives directly but we get to plant a seed and like do the next right thing and attraction not promotion you know i'm not promoting sobriety to anybody like i always say that it's like if you think you can control and have fun with it and you're you're still okay more power to you right yeah hopefully it brings you to a point of of some kind of bottom to your where you want to make a change or or not maybe you're one of those normal people that i don't understand and never you can use cocaine on the weekends and then go to work i don't get it for you wasn't it wasn't me i've tried many times you know it's pretty cool though like
Speaker 2how yeah you're not supposed you don't promote it right and i in recovery i was you know hoping to direct it to a certain person in my life and then you know about a month ago out of nowhere someone else called me asking for help and it was like from left field i had no idea you know but it's it's a pretty beautiful thing like you don't know whose
Speaker 1lives you are touching you have no idea i'm getting goosebumps as you think because yeah that's happened to me too where it's like and it's usually when you need it the most too right you know god works in mysterious ways higher power whatever you want to call it but i'm not you know god works in mysterious ways higher power whatever you want to call it um when i'm you know just recently like in my head same like you and these new people start showing up in my life out of nowhere and it's like okay god's not gonna do everything for me but he can put people in my path or it's like this is up to you now buddy like what are you gonna do about it are you gonna ignore all these these winks these god nudges or are you gonna do something about it because i need to help people or i'm gonna die yeah right what does service look like to you today um just on a daily basis um
Speaker 2just doing the next right thing right like especially at work like i can get hot-headed very quickly but they're my own expectations right and i and i realized that this week like i strive for perfection and what's perfection i'll never be perfect and this week i was talking to my sponsor as well and she was telling me you know um an expectation is the beginning of a resentment and when she said that it was just like a bunch of stuff came flashing through my head and i was like wow like not only am i setting an expectation for myself at work i'm setting them for other people around me which is creating resentment like who the heck am i to say you you're you're capable of this this and that maybe they're not right um so this week especially i've been trying to be a little more understanding at work and just like service there and i've been trying to be a little more understanding at work and just like service there and i've been you know i got a lot of recovery in new market and i remember coming back to toronto and a lot of women weren't approaching me at meetings and stuff right and i went i had relapsed and i went with a friend to one and he's like you're gonna meet so many women i'm like no i'm not every woman in that meeting approached me talked to me for five minutes and gave me their number every single one from that day forward i promised myself any newcomer i would talk to them and make them feel welcome even just simply like hey yeah you know yeah i
Speaker 1can't tell you how many times i've been to play meetings where uh that's happened and it hasn't happened especially when i've traveled when i travel i try to i used to do a lot more in my first bout of recovery um i've been to meetings in barcelona i've been to meetings in um the states all over uh and i find that when i travel people tend to come up to me but it's like you just feel so good like no matter where you're at you're always there and you're always there and you're at your recovery when someone comes up to you and to your point i i remember um you know 2015 going to my first meeting in toronto after because i got sober in minnesota in rehab and the meetings that are way different than here really not bad or good they're just different they have a lot of god talk which is i've come to realize today is um i like it and it's not for everybody right some people get turned off by that word uh which is fine but you know it's my own conception you know exactly very simple but uh you know coming here and i'll never forget dan right dan f came up to me and this old old guy and just shook my hand in one of the meetings in toronto and said hey son like welcome have a coffee sit down right and i was like oh god like no one was ever doing that to me before right maybe at the bar but it's not the same right i
Speaker 2wanted that too right i think for my service too i think honesty is important when you're talking like because the more honest you are and the more you talk about your story somebody could relate and i had that happen as well right like they came up to me and i was like oh my god i'm not going to and they couldn't stop crying they were crying for about half an hour but just thanking me because they could they were able to relate so much and they're sober today now too right like just yeah i think honesty is a big part of service too especially yeah because you're just you want people to hear hear that you've been through the same struggle as them right and they're not alone yeah you know that's the biggest thing too because yeah when i
Speaker 1came in i still you know i talked to a lot of new people today and i'm grateful for that because of the job that i have and i love it man i never thought i would like it this much honestly i love it because it's they don't call in like complaining about their life right you know it comes here and there and they're different and my problems are worse than everyone else's right that that's totally normal that i was like that too and then you come into recovery and you hear somebody else like well actually i've been through this this and this you're like what like that's actually worse than what i've been through right and i always say to people is like whatever you've been through someone has been through worse yeah and gotten through it yeah the longer you stay around
Speaker 2you start to notice that those feelings are still the same though right like yes i think they are anyway yes like i hear people talking and but i tell them i'm like i'm happy you didn't get to the point of homelessness i'm happy you're seeing yourself now and getting the help today for me the homelessness is what i needed to reach right so but i i'm i never thought i'd say i'd be grateful for it but i am right because today i'm someone different and i view the i'm so grateful for little things now that i never would have been grateful for before just waking up a roof over my head a job that i'm holding down for the first time in a long time right so where people are
Speaker 1happy to see me at work and they come support me too like what a gift you know what a that's kind of foreign to us no one was supporting me before besides my family right that's it
Speaker 2my family i'm that's the biggest part i'm happy to have back you you mentioned um trying to sort of
Speaker 1i don't want to use the word force but try to get somebody sober in your life yeah why don't you can you talk a little bit about what that's like like trying to get someone sober and then this sort of moment because i think a lot of people watching can relate to that it's like well just stop using
Speaker 2it backfired on me like i realized why we shouldn't well why i shouldn't do it so i was uh asked to do a reading at a medallion and it was right downtown toronto and i was like trying i was like you're gonna come support me right and that was my manipulative way to get um smart i could tell he was uncomfortable through the whole ride he's not a quiet person and he was very quiet um and you know what i got him out front the doors but that was it he ended up going to the bar right from there and you know it scared me just because what's you don't know what's in in the drugs these days and if something would have happened to that to him that night i would have felt responsible for that right so that was a heavy lesson learned right there from that point on i was like i'll never push it on anybody they have to want it right so even when i first got sober i wasn't doing it for me i was doing it for everyone else for my family and it wasn't working it didn't work obviously but now i'm doing it for heather and uh so far so good you
Speaker 1all we got is today right yeah as long as i'm sober today i always tell people is like i remember coming into recovery and one of my biggest things uh i was 23 right the first time i came in and my biggest i couldn't wrap my head around like getting married and not having a drink on my wedding day right that was like my my biggest thing and i've come to learn that a lot of people have that thought right that specific thought and if i hadn't talked about it i wouldn't have gotten that out of them right i can honestly say sitting here today that i got over it and i'm like i'm gonna do it again i'm gonna do it again i'm gonna do it again got married and didn't have a drink right yeah it was it was amazing but um during that time i had been in in the middle of a relapse right so it's like you know the honeymoon after and it was a huge thing disaster that's why i always always always always applaud people that are dealing with a loved one in their life because i know how hard it is my wife reminds me but it's good i need those reminders because like i was thinking and you hear this all the time it's like i'm only hurting me right i'm only hurting me nobody else is hurting i'm like just leave me alone meanwhile my wife i find out later and i've said this before on the podcast is is calling the morgue calling police stations calling and i wouldn't have i wouldn't have known that until and if i didn't get sober again right because she told me all that stuff right so it's true i didn't think i was hurting
Speaker 2anybody else right like i remember my brother walking past me on the street he didn't he wouldn't acknowledge me he wouldn't acknowledge me he wouldn't acknowledge me and he wouldn't look my way and i would laugh and be like why is he so upset i'm not hurting him i'm only hurting myself and even i got to the point of trying to kill myself i turned to fentanyl right and i overdosed 10 to 15 times i remember someone called my family i was so mad at him and i was so mad at the hospital i was like pulled out everything i'm like i'm gonna sue you guys who called my parents meanwhile they're my the people you're supporting what's the call on my chart yeah um that didn't go so well but i remember my parents telling me how upset they were that the hospital let me go and they're like she's too irate what can we do yeah sorry okay i freaked
Speaker 1out for a second i thought i wasn't recording but it's all good um yeah she's so so sorry continue
Speaker 2yeah oh is it just i remember going home that day too like i used my parents of stealing 15 from me like what do they want 15 from me for like why would they steal from me that's what i did to them right and then that was a rough week i went out and i i don't even
Speaker 1remember that whole week don't remember anything but i mean the paranoia is so real when you're in active addiction um i was talking about this yesterday but i and i'm happy i haven't deleted these videos i have a few videos from my shenanigans and trades and um i used to get a lot of people being like how do you laugh at that that's crazy like you did this and that and i'm like my therapist put it perfectly she's in recovery as well she's like well anthony you know we have two choices today we can laugh about those things or we can cry about them and she's like i don't know about you i've done enough crying right yeah i'm ready to laugh at them now because they happened it's part of who i am who i was and uh i'm not ashamed of it anymore right but i have like so many videos of myself like locked in a hotel bathroom when i was kicked out of my wife kicked me out and i was hotel surfing kind of homeless not really but i mean i didn't have a home right which i'd so i can relate to the even though i was in a place it's like i hated myself so much right i want to die every night and uh i remember i have these videos of just like film like waiting for someone to come in the hotel door i'm holding a weapon in my hand and i'm just like oh like i could still feel that feeling of fear and it's like even in your head my thing was stimulants so it was like i always had these these um i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know paranoia this psychosis i was in the feeling of like i know in my core that nobody is outside yeah i know i'm looking through the people and i see people but i'm like i know i hear them i'm taking video i'm sending them to my friends i'm like do you see anybody they're like no dude like no there but it's just like oh i don't miss that feeling oh everyone was a cop for me
Speaker 2and my dad was gonna jump out of every bush i don't know why it was my dad all the time but it was my dad i'm like my dad's there i'm like i'm gonna jump out of every bush i know he's there i'd be in a apartment building 20 floors up my dad's gonna come through that balcony like i know he's not there but in my mind he was yeah something about it's
Speaker 1just such an awful place to to live but i mean that's not enough right to your point you you have to get to a point of the gift of desperation they call it where it's like i've had enough you don't have to hit a rock bottom you hear that you have to hit your own sort of rock bottom but in my experience rock bottom is when you stop digging right but yeah as long as i'm
Speaker 2alive there's always a worse rock bottom you know well i've hit bottoms in sobriety too right i didn't realize that i'm powerless over people places and things it's not just drugs and alcohol you know what i mean i remember when i came back i became really good friends with someone and we became too close too quickly and um i still run into them they're still sort of a part of my life but when i lost them because i became too go to codependent on them i was a mess that was a different that was my bottom in sobriety right and i did want to use and i was just kept telling myself you'll get through this you'll get through this um that's when i realized i was powerless over people too and um i mean we there was no relationship a friendship but that showed me i'm also not ready for a relationship either not even close because i'm too i became way too codependent on that person yeah yeah i can relate to that we put them on this
Speaker 1sort of pedestal right yeah it's like i need you to love me to feel good about myself right codependence essentially um yeah i can relate to that too that was early in recovery for you that
Speaker 2was in the first six months when i came back there's a reason they tell us not to get in
Speaker 1relationships in the first i used to hate that in the first year i was like what why yeah i was at a point where i was just like you know what everything people told me i was just like i'm doing good like i feel good i'll listen to whatever you say you're happy i want what you have yeah i gotta do what you did yeah it's true that's what they told me you know it's true it's a hard concept you don't want to do what people tell you and that's why i love recovery so much just because no one you know you'll get your sponsor kind of my sponsor always i used to have a sponsor that would say uh you know son these are all suggestions sort of like suggestions of you know i suggest you take a parachute when you jump out of an airplane i love that it's so true it's like you can take it or leave it but you know you're gonna fall pretty fast right and he's saying it because he's done it oh yeah he's done
Speaker 2me things and then i won't listen like i'm listening to her speak but i'm not hearing it i'm not it's not registering i don't want to hear what she's telling me and then a couple months later she's like heather what did we talk about a few months ago i'm like yeah you were right
Speaker 1i'm not saying i told you so but i told you so yeah even uh she'll be like so did you pray about
Speaker 2it i'm like did you pray about it she's like i'll pray about it call me back
Speaker 1she was always right the whole time yeah that's awesome i do that too uh i want to ask you a question because uh i've never heard this question before but i was on a um uh like a sober community meeting last week it wasn't 12-step based it was uh just like new people in recovery all coming together and i was i was speaking at it i was fortunate enough to to be a speaker at it i was talking about relapse and uh it caught to the end there's four speakers and then they opened it up for a q a and this guy gets on here and he he asks this question where it kind of pissed me off at first because i was obviously the answer to this and then i thought about i was like wow that was a really good question so i'll ask you now it's like um if you could he asked us if you could go back all four of you if you could go back 12 years old 10 years old whatever before anything happened in your life would you choose the path of being an addict and going through what you got through and going into recovery
Speaker 2or would you choose this kind of normal life i mean this is the the only life i really know i think being sober today i don't think i'd have the gratitude that i do today without going through what i went through um losing everything i did and it was all by my own choice um there's that's what helped me understand was keeping things simple and i remember the first time it was in my head i was writing in my journal i think in that day i came up with almost a year ago and i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm almost 30 things i was grateful for in that day um i don't know if I was just normal if I could see all that gratitude do you know what I mean like so I don't know it like to think back some of the things I did sure it's still it still bothers me from time to time but I get to be a better Heather today and do better today um I don't know so I guess maybe yeah I'd probably stick to the life I had because there's so much in today that I'm grateful to be sitting here with you today and doing this, right? Because like we were talking about, we can help somebody. We don't know who we're helping. It would be some stranger in another country somewhere, right? But if I've helped one person in this world, I'm happy with that.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Thank you. And I remember when he asked it, I was like, everyone's going to say that, of course. But then I really thought about it. And I was like, you know what? I've had days for sure where I'm like, I hate being an addict. I wish I wasn't. Oh, yeah. This sucks, right? But it's in the grand scheme of things. It's like, yeah, I have a toolkit today that I never would have had before, right? I see some people, and I hope this doesn't come off as judgment or whatever, but I see some people going through life and they're nine to five and they're just kind of just scraping by. Yeah. And it's like, I feel like everybody can benefit from recovery, and I've heard that before. Everyone can benefit from some sort of program, 12 steps, whatever, smart recovery, whatever the hell you do to get sober. If you do 10 push-ups in the mud every day and that keeps you sober, as one of my friends used to say, it's good for you, right? I'm just a better person when I'm sober. It's like, I'm allergic to alcohol and drugs. Simple as that.
Speaker 2I've always said that, too, though. Like, what we have and the tools we're given, I think it could do a lot of the world some good, too, right?
Speaker 1Addiction's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2That's just my opinion.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah. Addiction's not going anywhere, right? No. Like, it's not getting less. It's increasing every day. That's sad. And the stories are getting crazier and crazier, right? As I stay around longer, I'm like, holy shit, how did that person come back from that? You know, homeless stripper to lawyer. Like, I've just, I've heard the craziest transformations, right? And it's like, you look at these people now and you're like, you used to be that? You used to be homeless? Whatever, right? It's like, you just can't fathom it. But there's a transformation that happens in here, and it's beautiful to witness.
Speaker 2It is pretty beautiful. It is.
Speaker 1So we talked about faith and spirituality, and you talked about what you were working on a lot today. What would you say is, like, the number one thing that helps you when you're really squirrely? I know you mentioned calling people and journaling as a good one. But yeah, what does that look like today when, you know? When you're struggling?
Speaker 2I just talk to people a lot. Like, that's, it's, yeah, I have to talk. I have to get it out. I will. I will call 20 people if I have to. You know, sports growing up for me was huge. But when I was in treatment, I tore my ACL and my meniscus. So now it's trying to find other things to keep me busy. Right now, I just pile myself into work, which isn't healthy either. It can take a toll. It can take a toll on my brain and my body. Trying to find other things I'm interested in. I have no idea what I'm interested in. Yeah. None whatsoever. Right? I do need to make more of an effort, but I just wish I could play my sports, to be honest with you. That's a tough one. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to be in a tournament at the end of the month for baseball, which I'm stoked for.
Speaker 1Is it a sobriety recovery tournament? Yeah. They have lots of those. Yeah. Yeah. I've been asked to do a few of them I did one last year too But it's something fun about a bunch of addicts Being together and so many opinions Yeah
Speaker 2But even concerts, concerts I love concerts, I love music Me too Yeah, going to a Leaf game Or a Jays game, I love doing that stuff Right? I never thought I'd be able to do it Sober either I never thought I could It's even better sober though
Speaker 1You actually remember it You know what's going on It's funny you mentioned concerts I'm going to one tonight I was at one two weeks ago Budweiser Stage, which is a great venue If you have seats, if you're in the lawn It's a little tricky You've got to deal with a bunch of people having a little too much fun I liked it back then Now you're just like, I just want my space I'm listening to this But I was with somebody that was drinking And it's just like And this doesn't happen all the time, I realize that But I was watching them kind of struggle a bit And it kind of ruined their night Because they were constantly going to the bathroom My wife now, she completely doesn't drink anymore And she's not one of us But she decided For one, she'll go to a concert and she'll start drinking She'll go to the bathroom Just to pee every so often
Speaker 2And as a woman, those bathrooms are lined up
Speaker 1She hates it, she's like, I missed the whole show I'm not even getting drunk She's like, what's the point of this? And so she completely doesn't drink anymore Which blows my mind
Speaker 3You can and you don't
Speaker 1I'm going to stop I'm going to stop I'm going to stop I'm going to stop It still drives me nuts When she leaves this much What are you doing? I made a video about that I was like, oh my god, I don't get it To each his own Again, I always say this But if you're going to have a problem with drugs and alcohol And you're still having fun More power to you Not everyone's like that When you go to those social situations Did you find it hard in the beginning to say no? What did you say to people? Why aren't you drinking? Everyone has those moments
Speaker 2I've kind of avoided a lot of those situations I haven't really put myself out there yet I was invited to a friend's She just moved into a new place And she was just having a welcoming party Or whatever you want to call it And I thought about it And I decided not to go Because people from my past were going to be there And I didn't want to be triggered In family events, I'm okay there They all know what I'm doing So none of them pressure me Sometimes, though, I do have to escape for a bit And it's not even that I want to drink It's just a lot going on That it's a bit chaotic And I'm not used to that anymore And sometimes I'm like, that was me And not to put them there They're able and capable of drinking and having fun And I'm just not But sometimes I just And it's not even that I want to drink It's just I just need a breather for a minute I need to take a step back and just take a breather But I haven't really put myself in that situation yet Especially with my past friends from my past I still talk to a lot of them But they hang out with a lot of people that I used to use with And it's not just me It's just I'm not ready for any of that yet
Speaker 1And that's okay, right? It's like That's amazing that you can come I always It's like It doesn't mean you're not Because when people say Well, how am I going to It doesn't mean you're not ready forever It's like just right now I need to take a me moment and whatever And I found that very helpful, too I still find it helpful I'm like, yeah, I just It's not even that I'm going to be triggered to drink Maybe I will Maybe I don't know That's the thing about triggers Is like we don't really They kind of come out of nowhere sometimes And My first So I had almost eight years Went back out For probably about a year And then four months of like Just way worse, right? Way worse And progressiveness Progressive illness, right? Progressive drug use, alcohol use You know, places People, places, things You know, I found new bottoms, right? Like you said And Yeah, it's like I don't even I forgot Now I lost my train of thought But that's okay That's all right That happens sometimes But yeah, it's like I Oh, now I remember what I was going to say Okay, so three months in this time I was in a sober house again Didn't want to be there I had eight years, don't you know? Like I know how to do this Anthony, shut the hell up, right? I had to do that again Where it's like I had to dismantle my ego I had to deflate my ego Whatever you want to call it Maybe I'm not Maybe I don't have all the answers Again, fine I had all this recovery But, you know Let's just Let's just listen again Because that's what helped you the first time It's like maybe I'm wrong Maybe I don't have all the answers Maybe I don't know what's good for me right now It doesn't mean I'm going to know for the rest of my life I'm going to be like that But lived in a sober house The first three months I thought about cocaine every single day Like every single day And I talked about it I told people about it And like there wasn't And it wasn't like this crazy intense thing But I would I would feed into it And then I would I would play the tape through in the wrong way Where it was like Oh, I don't know Oh, yeah, you could do this And then my fantasy was like You know, you could turn off your phone You could kick off your shoes You could do this Today, I can honestly say That I haven't thought about it in a while And when I do Like I'm almost at seven months again And thank you Yeah, it's amazing I can't believe it Because like I was saying before Seven minutes was a foreign concept to me, right? So it's a beautiful thing That I'm able to start over again But when that thought comes up in my mind now I literally I had a therapist in my In my last treatment center She would say I do this thing where I just like Picture a stop sign in my head and so i do that now it's like when when those starts those thoughts start to come just don't even go there man it's and it's not like i'm burying it down deep it's like there's nothing good that comes out of me fantasizing about this yeah you know because it'll eventually lead to me
Speaker 2relapsing right well even when i'm tired it's that like i was so exhausted the other day and i was laying in bed and i couldn't get that first as i used crack right i couldn't get that first toke out of my head that first euphoric toke and i'm just like oh i want it i want it but that's i just play the tape forward what's and it's because i'm tired like if when i take a nap i wake up those thoughts are gone it's only when i'm tired i don't know why and it's like over exhaustion but yeah um i do still have those moments um and then there's sometimes where i just want to get out of my head and i think i want to use but i actually don't i'm just i just want out of my head like i can't explain it like it's like i like my my disease is telling me you want to use but then when i think about it i'm like no i don't i just don't want these thoughts in my
Speaker 1freaking head anymore i just want the noise to kind of just turn down the volume a little bit so what do you do i mean you mentioned it but like calling somebody is a big one calling somebody is a big one
Speaker 2calling music i mean they say music isn't the best either because but i love music actually asides from my family i was talking about this the other day uh when i was out on the streets i'd have to say music was the the second top thing i missed like asides from my family right like music's always been big in my life since i was a little kid i remember five years old my dad bought me a little ghetto blaster right i've loved music um so music but mostly writing and calling people right or taking a nap if i need one yeah and sometimes
Speaker 1it's that simple you know yeah um i want to ask you this i just thought of this now but homelessness is big in toronto right um i do this thing where if i see a homeless person coming up to me i just at least at very least try to make eye contact with them because they're fucking people right they're people and uh sometimes they'll ask me for stuff i'll just and sometimes like if i can afford it i'll do it right and i try to you know what was what was society's like reaction to you when you were homeless versus like did you notice the shift right away like how did people react to you i didn't notice it right away um but eventually
Speaker 2i did like at a local pub i used to hang out at people would start ignoring me and not acknowledging me and and being very rude to me and stuff um i mean my family wasn't homelessness was a choice to me because my parents would never give me the boot i know now how much they love me but um i couldn't go home because of guilt and i couldn't look at my parents in the eye for the way i was right but uh yeah i noticed not everybody though because there were days where i would decide today's the day i'm done like and i would i would my choice was i didn't have the balls if you will to to hang myself or or hurt myself physically but i was like when i found out about fentanyl i'm like i can get high and die at the same time let's do this right but there were days that i was like okay today but some random in the streets or on the bus would talk to me and ask me how my day was and just that little little thing it stopped me it would stop me from from doing that that day and making that choice right so it was more so the people that i knew growing up that that were different towards me um i mean the people that didn't know me was where they were a lot more forgiving if you will or saw me differently yeah yeah so i'm gonna
Speaker 1say interesting because i've always wondered that you know it's like not everyone's an asshole right there's a lot of good people out there you know although we see behavior or social media or whatever and it's like immediately you write off humanity and everyone's selfish and um i was certainly selfish for a long time but there was moments where i was a good person too right and i'm a good person today and i was a good person back then too i was just making some choices that didn't align with my values and my morals you know drinking and driving one of them
Speaker 2yeah i don't drive i've never driven so that's one thing i think i got i skipped out on thank god right because yeah who knows what would happen but i found early in recovery i was very judgmental on homeless people believe it or not and i didn't i was disgusted by them and and i was like how could they be like that mind you six months prior that was me right um interesting and then i remember i had a sub i was going back up to new market from visiting my parents and i had a sub in my bag and i saw this gentleman sleeping and i woke him up and i gave him a sub and then i went and bought him a water and gave it to him and he's like god bless you i love you thank you so much and i remember walking away and i just started bawling bawling my eyes out and it was just i don't know i guess it was a lot i think they were gratitude tears that that i wasn't there anymore and i know now i was so resentful towards them because i was looking at my past self and i and i don't know maybe at that time i was ashamed of that person of who i was back then right now now i have a different look like i i try not to give them money if i can because if they are users not not all homeless people are users right if they are and and they went and used and died that night i would feel so responsible for that right that would kill me what i know probably not but if i do see them um i'll try to give them food if i can something to eat right or whatever i have on me if i can right but to your point like a simple
Speaker 1conversation goes such a long way a smile oh yeah you know eye contact even yeah because like yeah a lot of people don't notice them and i see it today right they try to ignore them or whatever
Speaker 2and they're people i'll be with people who know knew i was homeless and they're and they're very i don't don't want to say rude but they disregard them right away and i and i i don't don't uh if they need a cigarette i'll give them a couple or you know if i can if i can right but i acknowledge them and because usually if i don't have something to give they're very beautiful they're beautiful they're people they have hearts right and regardless they're still grateful that
Speaker 1that i even acknowledge them i feel okay heather um i'd like to end the podcast with this and uh so i'll do it again because i think i don't know i've come to realize that words are just words right but the last guest caitlin i had in here she's like if you need to hear words right now then that's going to help you right but at the end of the day it might not do anything but i think sometimes some i needed to hear words sometimes right just just to even just shift my perspective a little bit because that's what recovery does today but uh if you could say something to someone who's in a situation where someone's struggling right now what would you say
Speaker 2they're not alone that uh there's people out here that know exactly how they're feeling and what they're going through and there is help there's help anthony you're here helping people right there's ways to reach out and get help it's scary but uh if i can do it anyone can do it right if you can do it anyone can do it so our good friend dave always used to say that really
Speaker 1he always used to say that to me he's like you would always be like if i could do it you could do it oh yeah he did and i was like oh man i love that guy but uh well said heather thanks so much for coming down i appreciate you yeah and uh yeah i had a lot of fun today thank you thanks for
Speaker 4listening please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone you
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