Speaker 1Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at recoveringoutloudpod or by email at recoveringoutloudpod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone. So I used to use my phone for the third camera. Oh no. And that's going to be triggering for everyone. Sorry. Especially if you're listening in the car. Did I tell you I had a counselor
Speaker 2at rehab who did that? He'd start every class by,
Speaker 3opening a can of bubbly. Every single class. Every class. I was like, this motherfucker's
Speaker 1doing this on purpose. Like it was like remarkable. That is like a very unique sound too. Especially because I don't know if you heard, like, you're probably weird like me, but I can like tell when it's a beer and when it's like not a beer, like that little pussy opening sound that I just did there. That was like, you know, Red Bull. Um, but that's really triggering. Wow. Yeah. But I think
Speaker 3again, it was like, wake up kids. You're going to be getting out of here someday.
Speaker 1You're going to have to deal with this shit in the real world. I had, um, so I work at a rehab now and I had, uh, I get phone calls and messages from parents and stuff. And, uh, this lady was messaging me today saying that, um, the, the fire pit and the pool table at the treatment center. She's like, isn't that triggering for people? Like, how can you, she was like upset, like visibly, you know, verbally upset. Isn't that triggering for people? Like, how can you offer a safe environment when there's a pool table and a fire pit? Like, doesn't that give people urges to like, spark up? She said, and I can tell you didn't tell her about the karaoke. Yeah. Or the, uh, the gambling card games that we play after. Um, but to, to your point, it's like, I said to her, um, okay, you can't avoid triggers and one, what better place to handle them and deal with them than in treatment, right? Your point is very valid. It's like, and it's an important point too, because I'm going to leave here someday, this bubble that I'm in this treatment bubble that I'm in. Yeah. Because it is a bubble at the end of the day, right? Absolutely. Um, and I'm going to have to deal with walking by the patio and seeing that motherfucker enjoy his beer while I fantasize about it.
Speaker 3Yep. Watching that bum sneak a sip on the subway and be like, yo dude, I could do that better than you. Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 1You're doing it all wrong.
Speaker 3And, uh, truly a bubble because, you know, I was at, I think we're talking about the same rehab, frankly. I don't know if I'm allowed to say the names of things.
Speaker 1I would just avoid saying that.
Speaker 3Okay. Okay. So this rehab, like, um, I stay there for 47 days. And the minute I got out, I still understood that this thing isn't curable, but I still felt this like sense of confidence, a sense of ability. And I relapsed in less than 48 hours and I couldn't believe it. I thought about the money spent. I thought about the time put in, but this, these are the lessons I had to learn because it's like, now I can pass it on and I can say that it's very for real, that sense of the bubble. But, um, my brother-in-law in Vancouver, he works at a place called the junction and what they do is they have activities for people in recovery. And he explained to me how things like karaoke, uh, game shows pretend casino nights. Like this sort of thing is to not only remind us how much fun we can have in sobriety, that we are totally permitted to go and still do the things we did when we were drinking just minus the alcohol, but it's just to help normalize you as a person. It's to help remind you that like, you can do anything a regular person can. It's just that you have to have your skills and set skill set in place. Yeah. And, and rewire your brain to not
Speaker 1associate. Hitting a blackjack hand, for example, with, um, you know, doing a line of cocaine right after
Speaker 3I was literally going to say, do a line of cocaine after. Wow. We're very similar.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, cause yeah, that's what I did, right? Blackjack and cocaine, like in casinos. That was like, you know, that was my idea of fun, more, more so gambling, sports gambling and,
Speaker 3and cocaine. Yeah. But yeah, I think any like cocaine obviously makes me think of crazy eights. We did a ton of blow while playing that card game. Oh really? Anything to do with my hands or counting numbers or organization. I'm like, Oh, cause that was always my solution to my lack of fun. My sense of focus or my, my sense of fear that I wouldn't get it right is like, I'm going to do this line and then I'm going to be a superhero. It won't matter too, right? Like the fact that
Speaker 1I can't get anything right. Doesn't it just like disappear? Exactly. Oh my gosh. All that sense of
Speaker 3self, that self-righteousness, that was a really big downfall for me. So you relapsed 48 hours
Speaker 1after treatment. What was that like? How did that happen? It was such a slide, you know,
Speaker 3much like my entire experience with addiction. One of those moments of how did I end up here again? But it was, uh, I think knowing that when I would be getting out of rehab, I would be going back to my parents' house and my parents' house is like the Mecca of my addiction. It's like where all of the trauma started. It's where I drank for so many years. My mom is an alcoholic, untreated and unadmitted. And like, I just thought that's so dangerous. I can't be doing that. So I, I took up a, cause we're still capable of doing completely reckless, mindless things, even when we're sober. Right. But I took up some man's offer. He was from Turkey and he's like, I have space in my apartment. Down on Roncesvalles. You could stay here instead. And I thought in my head, like any sort of sexual advance he'd make, I could overcome that. And I did, I told him like back the hell off, but, um, but it's still like hit my brain incorrectly. I went back home. I'd, I'd gotten the chicken pox as well. This is something I didn't realize after I'd left art. I had a few little blisters on my body. I'd never had chicken box before I was 32 years old. So, um, so I went to a walk-in clinic to be like, what are these things on my body? I'm an adult. And, um, when I was leaving the walk-in clinic, I was like, you know what, mom, I can get home from here. The minute I said that my brain was like, you're going to go to the LCBO, aren't you? And sure enough, I did. And I got the tequila because something about a nomadic lifestyle, I always associated with drinking. I could go anywhere, show up anywhere, sleep wherever. So long as I had alcohol, I could do anything. I was very brave. I was very comfortable. I was very resourceful and outgoing. And like, you know, until the, um, until I drank for so, so much that I ended up in the hospital, I can like maintain. This kind of wild chaos. And so I was going to get that, you know, that tequila to keep in my backpack because that was my traveling companion. That was my like absolute best friend. It's got my back. It's going to make me feel better. It's going to make me be able to do this. And because I have all the skills at rehab, I'm sure it won't get out of control, but you know, very quickly ended up in the hospital, especially like because of the chicken pox, they were sending me fevers and all that weird stuff on top of it. But, um, but yeah, but it, it really just happened. And it's almost in like, else's body or some sort of dreamlike state where I find myself leaving the rehab having made all of these friends this this joy and excitement I felt for this new life I was ready to have but I just did not understand the insidiousness I did not understand the cunning part of the cunning path baffling and powerful bit it's like it's real clever and it's just it it was still very much behind the wheel and I was still lying to myself but yeah wow thanks so much for coming down Chloe I appreciate you thank you Anthony thank you so much for having me this is seriously like maybe the coolest recovery based thing that I've done since I got like really on the right
Speaker 1path yeah it's amazing thank you yeah you walked in here and uh you did like a fucking stepbrothers routine here there's so much room for activities and you're dancing around and I just I love you man you're awesome that was great that was great stepbrothers that means I have to hit the drums
Speaker 3fuck you don't say that you did we just become best friends
Speaker 1John Bonham playing Moby Dick for real fucking love that movie oh that's so good I think when
Speaker 3I laugh I better move my head back a bit I'm gonna break the machine here no that would just be my
Speaker 1luck oh no it's all good um tell us a little bit about how you came into recovery um and what you know what that moment kind of looked like where you you know you you had enough you wanted to make a change and then you had to make a change and then you had to make a change and then you had to make a change and then you had to make a change and then you had to make a change and then
Speaker 3how did you go about doing that okay um so I'm trying to bring my brain back to right so when I was in very active addiction I went to this wedding I was originally the maid of honor but the bride had to tell me because she could see I was I was not going to make any kind of change anytime soon and I was not a reliable person anymore so I was demoted to bridesmaid but I had this wedding and I met this guy named Andrew and he is not in the program but he is one of those remarkable people who despite not having any experience with addiction just seems to have like an understanding of it and this like endless compassion and so we did start to date and and he's this he's this wonderful guy I believe very much so that my higher power made sure to put this person in my path because while this is not the way to stay sober it did start as doing it for him because he was going to leave and I didn't want to lose him because even through my drunken stupor even though I was still hiding alcohol all throughout his house doing tons of cocaine without him knowing I knew I really didn't want to lose this person so that's how it started and it started by just detox centers because I would drink so much to the point of being like mad hysterical and angry and volatile and not kind and so it started at detox centers and then I went to cam h for a month and I came back again immediately the minute I got to that house my parents house which is where I now live miraculously enough but that house I went straight for the mouthwash because it was the only thing I could find and um and then it slowly just started to pick up and this was his experience for like years me making these promises me making small changes it seems to be working and then it's not And then he finds the tequila again and he gets very upset and we try and we try, but, um, but he was never demeaning or degrading or, or violent. And so that was another reason why my brain was still aware, like, this is someone special and no matter what capacity you end up in, don't lose this human. Um, but that's the thing is the reason it didn't stick for so long was because it was for him because it was to get my mom off my back. Um, because it was so I could prove to other people that I wasn't a total disaster. It had nothing to do with doing it for me because as I would come to understand, I came to the program. I came to even the beginning of the recovery journey with not low self-esteem, but no self-esteem. And I've been that way my entire life. Little did I know. Um, but I'll talk. So it was like, you know, in and out of detox centers, treatment centers. And, um, the only difference I believe to all those moments where I meant it with all my heart, when I'd say I'm never doing this again, I cannot live like this. Please God help me stop. The only difference between those times and the time when I actually did finally stop was that there was no crime. There was no big dramatic emotion. It was just a sudden understanding of just how much my higher power had always seen all along and how it was, how hard it was working for me. And so it was just like a switch. I was like, I'd set up this whole situation where I was staying in Caledon with a friend and her parents because I was no longer allowed at my house and they have no booze there. They have cats. It's in the middle of the woods. It's like, you can get out of yourself, get out of your life. And I would attend meetings on zoom and I managed to keep up my sobriety for months this way. And then the family goes on this 80 day cruise and they entrust me with their home and their cats. And I'm like, okay, I can do this. And the minute the door closed, it's that silence that falls and that brain that starts talking. And suddenly I need a drink to hang out with myself because I can't like be comfortable in my own skin. So suddenly I'm walking through the woods to this LCBO convenience. I buy all this vodka. I buy all this wine. I go back to the house. I just like, I start drinking. I start cooking. I'm thinking I can have this fun time in this place by myself. Just, I'll just drink a little bit. You know, I'll keep it under control. The same lie, never, never even hearing how often I'd said it, but you know, only looking back now. And of course that didn't last very long because every time I relapse it's, it's harder, faster, stronger every time. So I immediately end up in that state where I don't know what time of day it is or even what day it is. I'm in a bed. I'm rolling over just to wake up just to have some more to drink than to finally go back to sleep. And I'm like, I don't know what time of day it is. I don't know what and eventually I wake up, there's no more booze left and I'm starting to throw up and I'm going through withdrawal. And I know how dangerous withdrawal is because of how many times I've been told in the hospitals at this point. So I call their neighbor and I tell her it's four in the morning. I'm sorry. You're going to have to take me to the hospital. So the first moment was there. Chloe actually wants to live. That's new because every time I was like hoping I just wouldn't wake up. Right. So this is new. I'm going to do this thing where I like call this person and, and, uh, and, and fuck all the shame, embarrassment. I got to go to a hospital because I suddenly don't want to die. And she gets me there and she's in total shock because the people who live in the house didn't tell the neighbor, by the way, she's an alcoholic and she's relapses constantly. So she was like, I don't know what's happening. And I was like, don't worry. This is what they're going to tell you. This is what I'm lying on the floor of the waiting room too. She's like, are you all right? I'm like, I will be, I need you to listen very carefully. It's going to be intravenous. It's going to be this many hours. It's going to be like, you know, and then like done, like, what is this question on the form? I'm like, it's just referring to the, like, it's like,
Speaker 1see, click see.
Speaker 3Just like memorize bitch. Like, Oh my God. And she's just like all shook up and stuff. So I stay, I get rehydrated at that hospital. I get an Uber from this hospital in a Paul grave to get back to the house in Caledon. And, and I'm, I'm meanwhile meanwhile, I've reapplied to the sober living house. I was at before Caledon. I relapsed at that sober living house was discharged, but I had reapplied. I'd done the interview and everything. And that had gone well. So, so I get, I went back to the house and I'm like, okay, deep breaths. We feel better. What are we going to do next? I think I need a drink before I really make any more plans. Like already it's starting again, that I know the path through the woods now to the LCBO convenience store. So I'll just do that again. It'll seem shorter this time. Cause I've done it before. And, um, and I get a call and it's a sober living house and they're like, we never do this, but do you want to move in this Saturday instead of like the following Tuesday? And I said, no. And that was it. That's like, that's that other human that lives within. That's my addiction. That's like, I'm having, you all to myself, baby. You're not going anywhere. And, um, so I said, no, I'm really enjoying myself up here in Caledon. I'm really finding out some things and hanging out with the cats is like really therapeutic for me and the woods and shit. And they're like, yeah, we don't need all that. Just say no. We'll see you Tuesday. I'm like Tuesday. Okay. 72 hours. It takes for alcohol to leave my system. I'm going to have to do a pee test when I'm there. That means I have until to drink. Right. And I'm like, all right. And then I get a call and it's my mom and she says, hi, honey. Um, the neighbor called the family in their cruise in Buenos Aires, told them what happened. They love you, but you need to get the fuck out of their house. They do not want you there anymore. And I was like, yep, fair. Call the sober living house back immediately. Nevermind. Saturday sounds great. And that was the switch. That was when it all started clicking. Cause I was like, I kept that thought to myself. I did not say out loud. No, I'll see you guys Tuesday. No for the convenience store. I was just like, I was like, even like just doing things so politely to almost pretend I wasn't going. To go do that thing. And, um, and then there it is. She's like, you ha you got to get out. So I officially have nowhere to live. So I call the sober place and I'm like, yo, uh, Saturday sounds great. I was like, I'm actually these cats. I'm sick of them. Let's go on me. Yeah. So I started packing up my stuff and I call Andrew and Andrew and I aren't dating at this point in my story. He and I haven't been dating for a while, but the miracle, the miracle man that he is, he's still in my life today. We're still the bestest of friends. I'm going to see him tomorrow. Cause we work out together every Saturday with my trainer, David. Yeah. I love the people I have in my life today. Like, Oh my goodness. But anyway, I call him because he is a rock and I'm like, listen, here's what's happened. Here's what I need. I need to be with you. I need to be at your apartment until Saturday because I need to not drink. I officially don't have 72 hours. I'm too afraid. I'm too aware of the fact that I have no control. That's when it all started happening because I'd had that plan and I'd kept it. To myself and my higher power made sure that that scared neighbor would make a long distance call to Buenos Aires and Buenos Aires would make a long distance call back to tell them she has to go. If no one had done that, I absolutely would have relapsed again in Caledon. I absolutely don't know if I'd have survived it. I absolutely don't know what the neighbor would have done if she'd been like, no, fuck you. I'm not doing that again. That was insane. Like it's just what if, what if doesn't matter. This is what happened. Yeah. So I was like, I like literally looked up at the sky like this, like, okay, I give up. I give up. All right. You see everything. I fucking get this now. Shit. So I just start packing my stuff. Andrew's like, you got it. I'm like, I love you. Hang up, get a, get an Uber out of Caledon, go down to Andrew's place. Um, of course I'm crying because now he sees how hard I'm trying and that now I'm doing it for myself and it's still not working and it's still this impossible thing. But, um, but at least he does, he does see that I'm trying. And, um, so he's like, yeah, you can stay. And then on top of that, I'm like, also my brother is going to come and hang out with me while you go to work. Cause I still don't trust myself. How many times did I sneak out of Andrew's very apartment to go to the LCBO? I was like, no, like, even if I feel like I really won't drink, I don't care. I don't believe anything. I believe anymore. I am not in control of this thing. So I was like, and Danny's going to be with me all the time. Danny's my bro. Um, when you're at work and he's like, sounds good. I'm like, okay. So I made it to the sober living house. March 2nd, 2023 is the last day I ever had a drink. And, um, yeah, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. It is a, it is actually amazing. We're, we are miracles because when you, think about the impossibility it was before, it's amazing. It's fucking incredible. Um, so yeah, so that was the last date that was at Caledon. That was the day I got back from the hospital after having been rehydrated, packed my stuff, got to Andrew's, got into the sober living place, graduated from that sober living place, Ingalls house for women only. It's awesome. Uh, to their second location, which is the Delaware house, which is where you have fewer restrictions, but still, of course, please no drugs or alcohol on the premises, either in your body or on the shelf. And, um, and then from there I started staying at my parents' house, which is where my parents house more. And I started to be of maximum service to my dad who was getting super old, losing his mind. My mom, who is her own creature and who has her struggles and my bro. And it was like, eventually I wasn't at the Delaware location as often. My stuff was there, but I was really happy in North York because that's where my home group's always been. And now I don't have this commute to my meetings. And isn't this kind of miraculous that I'm actually enjoying being in this house and I no longer feel like drinking. And now today there's liquor everywhere in the house. And when I opened the fridge, there's the stuff, but I don't have that desire whatsoever. I'm like reaching for that protein shake. That's behind that beer. I'm reaching for that water. I'm reaching for that pineapple juice, whatever, because that's what I actually crave now these days is like this water you brought me. I was like, Oh my God, I can't wait. I can't fucking wait for the water. But, um, but yeah, I hope that that
Speaker 1answered your question. It didn't go on too long. No, it was amazing. Um, that was really well said. It's like, it's so hard to ignore when the universe just higher power, universe just throws all these things that line up perfectly in your life. And I was getting goosebumps. Like as you were talking about it, because there was, um, you know, you, you, you describe, I do that all the time where I'm, I'm kind of like, I'm in this moment and I'm just like, I just look up at the sky and I'm like, okay, like either. Thank you very much. I love you. And I'm crying. Cause I'm grateful or okay. I get it. Like, fine. I'll listen. I'll submit, right. I'll stop doing things my way for once, you know? And that's really what it comes down to is Is Khloe going to continue on doing things her way at this point? Or have I had enough where the fear of staying the same is greater than the fear of change. Right. And that's all that was in that moment. It's like you were so scared in my, at least I don't want to speak for you, but what I got from that was like, you were so scared to keep living the way you were living because you weren't sure if you were going to live really. Right. And so that the fear of, you know, change became a little bit less, right. A little bit less than because making that first step in my experience, coming back from a relapse, especially is by far the hardest thing. It's like anything, right. Starting at the gym, you know, I'm trying to lose weight. Like it's, it's always that first step that is the hardest one because in our minds, we're sure that I always say this, but the mountain to get into recovery to get back into rehab is filled with like booby traps up a hill and it's always raining. Right. And it's like a fucking 90 degrees, you know, slope to get back into do whatever it is. And then you do it and you're like, huh, this is getting easier. Right. Like now I'm not thinking about alcohol to your point anymore. There's alcohol. There's alcohol. There's alcohol all over the place. It is a miracle. It's a miracle that for someone, you know, our stories are very similar. Mine was just more around stimulants than alcohol. Right. I was able to like, the thing with me was whenever I picked up alcohol, it was like, what was next? What was next? What was next? So I'm an alcoholic a hundred percent. There's no doubt about it. But I just, I gravitated more towards the stimulants. And I think that's a part of your story too. Right. Yeah. So, but it's the same shit, right. Same shit, different shovel. I heard someone in Utah say that one time. I like that. Gambling.
Speaker 3That's such a Utah sounding thing. Yeah. Same shit, different shovel.
Speaker 1Yeah. Very red state. Very red. But like, yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's all the same. And it's a miracle that, yeah, you can live in a place that you couldn't go one minute. I really liked what you said about, I needed a drink to, you said it nicer than this, but I needed a drink to live with myself to deal with me. And I can relate to that. Like this squirrely sort of what's not, you know, do this, do that. I know what it'll fix. This and that's why I do these videos on Instagram now that I, I actually really love making because it's like, it's me versus my addict brain. Right. And it's like, I've literally created this character where it's this guy and it's essentially the devil, whatever you want to, you know, whatever analogy you want to use, but that motherfucker is always there, right. He's always there. And so like at any point in my life, especially when things are going well, but when things are going bad too, it's like, you know, it's like that guy on my shoulder, that person that's always there just like, Hey man, remember, remember that one time when you had that vodka soda at the bar and then in my brain, like the night just kind of ends there. Right. It's like, I'm just sitting at a bar enjoying a vodka soda and I'm just like leaving out the fucking next six hours, six months, you know, six years of my life that worked awful. Right.
Speaker 3That was nice. Yeah.
Speaker 1And it's just like gone. It's like a family guy cutaway, you know, and that's it. Right. But that's not my, that's not reality. That's not my experience.
Speaker 3You know, in our literature, it says that we would, we would cease fighting anything or anyone or something like that. And I think that that includes what you're describing. Cause I totally, yeah. The devil, the, like my alter ego, whatever you want to call her. I don't want to hate her. And I, and I don't want to not acknowledge her. She's a totally part of who I am. And sometimes she gives me some things that are one of my better qualities, almost like being really outgoing serves you very well if you're trying to get alcohol, but it also serves you very well if you're trying to get recovered. So I don't want to dismiss her, but it's such a beautiful thing to imagine no longer having a fighter. Just like, Hey, want to hang out. You're not going to hurt me. I'm not going to let you, but we can hang out. We can get to know one another and like, I forgive you. You know, it's chill.
Speaker 1Yeah. That, that, that person, that entity, that whatever plays a role in your life. But that's it. It doesn't have to run your life. I don't have to hate him. It's like you're managing a team. Right. And then she's one part of it. He's one part of it. Right. And that's really well said.
Speaker 3You know, something Andrew gave me that just reminded me, um, he's like, cause I've worked in the service industry so much. He's like, okay, think of it like this, Chloe. He's like, you have two managers, you've night manager and you have a day manager. And every fucking day this day manager shows up to see the place looking like this. It's like, everything's broken. Money's missing out of the cash. Like people are sleeping on the bar. Like what the fuck happened? Yeah, exactly. The window's broken again. And it's like so much inexplicable shit. And like, you're like, sorry. And then the day manager has to clean it up. And every day the day manager is pleading with the night manager. Can you please not do this to me anymore? Like I have other things. I want to get done. But every time I show up, there is such a mess to clean. I can't do my own life. I can't live past this mess that you make every night. And the night manager's like, yeah, bro, I'm so sorry. I got to clean up my act. But then when the manager leaves, no change, then the night manager's back in charge. So I just love that. I love that idea. You said team. I'm like, yeah, two managers in my head. One's like during the day,
Speaker 1the other one's like party. That's a great, you can't fire either of them. The poor day guy. Yeah. He just always has to deal with the fucking night guy's shit.
Speaker 2Yeah. He's like, doesn't that make you feel more guilty? I'm like,
Speaker 1yes. Now I need to drink. Oh, that's amazing. You mentioned, you talked a little bit about higher power. I think it's important to acknowledge what does faith, spirituality, God, higher power, what does that look like? What does it mean to you today? And how does it help you stay sober?
Speaker 3Wow. That's a good question. What does it look like? An openness, I guess, is the first thing that wants to come out of my mind. I had a moment today. I was thanking God for this, for my incredible day that I've already had. Cause I had two great phone calls back to me. And I was like, I started acknowledging the fact that my higher power can probably sense. I'm still unsure if my higher power trusts me, but it's love is unconditional. So I'm getting used to unconditional love by talking to my higher power. I do actual direct prayers from this great 12 step prayer book. My sponsor gave me, or like the prayers that we all know and love from the meetings, just even the repetition helps me get out of my head. But I also just talk to it like a person, like just like somebody who's like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going someone who has known me my entire life who gets it. And, um, and will forgive me if I like do a bit of a rant and I'll even like preface it. I'll be like, I'm a rant. And then I just let it all rip. And then I go, I'm sorry. And I was supposed to be resentful or whatever, but I like throw it all this sass, but it's still going to love me. It's still going to be like, Chloe, that's so you fucking bitch, get your shit together. But it's still going to love me. It's still going to be there for me. And I have to honor that because that's a beautiful thing. And so faith looks like my hand. Um, so my palm is up. If I'm walking or I'm sitting, I just turn my palm up just like even one hand. And I will, um, I will believe I will have the faith and then I will physically feel a hand just sort of landing. And oftentimes if I'm walking, it'll really be like a warm breeze will suddenly hit me or the, it'll I'll walk into it and the sun will warm it or something like that. But to me, it's like, if I ever have those moments where I'm feeling a little, uh, I'm like, okay, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. It's like right there. Yeah. There's actually
Speaker 1science behind that too, that when they say, when you meditate with your palms open, um, it allows energy to come in, right. You're receiving energy and you mentioned openness. Uh, I love that. You know, it, it makes you, it forces you into a state of mindfulness because you're, you're physically noticing something that you're doing. Right. Even sometimes like I'll, I'll go like this and I'll just like rub my fingers together. And it's just like, okay, yeah, I'm here now. Not tomorrow, not yesterday. Cause those days don't exist. You know, I'm doing that thing again.
Speaker 3Right. Um, that's beautiful. Yeah. And, uh, and, and terribly comforting and it's very vulnerable too. Right. It's like the palm is like your underbelly. It's like when dogs like lie on their backs and they like do that, it means like I surrender. And, um, I think that's where we even got like the white flag thing from. Cause wolves always have white bellies. Anyway, that's hot topic. But yeah, but it's like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to trust that, you know, something bad is not going to happen and it doesn't. And then there it is. And so the more I do that, the more I begin to trust in general. And then the faith gets stronger. And so when I'm afraid, I will turn the palm up. I will look up, I will talk out loud. Um, sometimes I just wrap my arms around myself and give myself a big old hug. And this gesture in particular is important to me because before my drinking became the center of my world, um, I would go through hardships and I would hug myself and I would rock and I would sob and I would say, you're going to be okay. We have been through something like this before. We have fought with our mom before and she has said things to bring us so low. We have broken up with guys before and it has broken our hearts and made us terribly sad. We have failed tests. We have failed before you, but you're here and you're doing well now. And that pain has left. So, you know, it's going to happen again. But when I started drinking and when I started doing all the cocaine and all of the like, um, Ritalin, Viance, like all that stuff, um, that shame started to creep in, particularly when I, uh, I brought it on stage because I was a working actor for drugs and alcohol became the most important thing in the world. So when I, I would never forget being on stage. And delivering my monologue and I felt fucking nothing. And it was devastating because we were performing because the audience had voted for us to be the play that gets that last spot at the venue in the fringe festival. I just look over at my co-star and I'm saying the words from the monologue, but all the subtext is I'm so fucking sorry, bro. You totally know what's happening right now. And this is a disaster. So that shame was so powerful that I no longer could hug myself. I just let myself cry. I was like, you fucking deserve it. Sit in your shit, you stupid bitch. I just let myself cry. I was like, you fucking deserve it. Sit in your shit, you stupid bitch. - Get the faith back, get the sense self back get the um get your happiness back yeah this is temporary um yeah this too shall pass this
Speaker 1too shall pass that's the one that's one of my favorites yeah um i don't know if we met in vancouver and uh i'll quickly tell that story because it's kind of funny but i was sitting in a podcast meeting that they were having which was like kind of a weird podcast but i don't know they had like the sound effects yeah they had all these weird sound effects as i was watching that should i start doing this in my podcast and then i was like no absolutely not god i thought maybe you would yeah they had all those like cheesy radio sound effects that's right i'm probably not going to do that quick pause if this conversation is hitting home for you and you're a parent or a loved one of an addict wondering what's happening with your son daughter or loved one there's a book i've been recommending a lot lately it's called what's wrong with my team and it doesn't sugarcoat anything susan rafael talks about mental health addiction and how to actually connect with your kid again without shame or fear worth checking out link is in the description that right but um i'm sitting there i'm watching it and i see you walking down and you you know the whole row's open and you're like is the seat open and i'm like yeah no you know and i'm thinking uh i see toronto on your name badge and i'm like oh she's sitting over here because i'm from toronto i'm like we're in toronto and you had no idea i was from toronto it was so funny we were talking for like five minutes and then you realized that we were both there but it's funny how like um in a in a you know 50 35 000 people conference ever mostly from the united states and then two toronto people just kind of sit beside each other and then you were with a bunch of other people who i i love and i i've known some of them from before um and it was amazing and i'm really happy that you and i connected and you came down it was it was a great experience i'm so grateful too and i picked that
Speaker 3row because um there was no one sitting on the end so i wouldn't have to be like excuse me sorry
Speaker 1but i was like oh perfect just jump right out if you wanted to yeah yeah what was the conference
Speaker 3like for you kind of a whirlwind totally exhausting yeah it was a lot holy crap i was tired in ways i didn't know i could be by the end of that thing but um but yeah but awesome another really good lesson for me of my like uh perfectionist overachieving brain um oh i didn't do it all i'd make like a wish list on that app they had for it of like what meetings today yeah i'd make like one percent of what i had wished for but that that was okay because we were tired and there's like a thousand hungry yeah they're happening at the same goddamn time it's like okay i can't do it all hard lesson for chloe to learn because she's i'm so full of myself but you can't do it all but that was part of the beauty of it was going oh everything is a lesson and i always want to be learning keep that mind open set aside prayer like just like always teach me what i still don't know and what i still don't know is how happy i will be not achieving the things i think i have to achieve in order to be happy lo and behold and little thing like you know all of the what wouldn't have happened if i hadn't but um but yeah that conference was phenomenal uh first day i was like okay this is a lot and um i remember thinking to myself because again of course i'm going to think about something that i'm not going to have to worry about for five years but i was like i don't think i'll go next time just because this is like so extreme but then by the end of the that guy scott's up there and he's like talking to 35 000 people but it's all about me he's talking to me he's like i'll see you in saint louis i'm like you will you will scott yeah people please scott's gonna notice if i don't go he'll be like what the fuck that bitch flaked wow five years
Speaker 1from now i love it oh man we're yeah i mean we're we're all the same like just thinking about something from so far away that's so relevant i love it oh that's amazing
Speaker 3oh man so i definitely recommend 10 out of 10 on yelp or whatever for my in terms of experience like that was a that was a tremendous time and the whole trip was really important to me because i was i got to see my sister who lives out there too i got to swim in the ocean the ocean is something that is very important to me yeah it's like it's uh it's pacific in vancouver yeah i don't know if i mentioned that but yeah that's amazing and uh and and yeah and my sister in vancouver she's the one who has the husband who works in recovery so i knew i'd get to spend time with him i knew i'd get to go back to a city that i owe some amends to because i did go there at one point when i was in slightly more active addiction not as terrible as it would someday become but i was having an affair with my married acting coach and i can look at that girl and i can be like what were you come on but i don't have to do that to her she didn't know any better she's just in her 20s and got someone paid attention to her and it was like everything at the time so i got to go and make vancouver to myself see my sister and it was the first time i'd seen my sister since our sister had passed last year in november so that's why uh that whole trip was totally totally fucking awesome yeah yeah that's amazing um do you still do acting huh well i was in that play last year i was in a play last year it was called 13 plays about adhd all at the same time and we performed at the assembly theater in october and then we got to do a remount at the toronto sketch fest in march and it was a total blast that was a real high power moment this director alec taller total genius just emailed me out of the blue saying i've written this really weird play it might be really bad but would you like to like be in it because we'd worked together before and here i am thinking that everyone's noticed i've disappeared everyone's wondering where chloe is but no he's like no i hadn't i just assumed you were still acting i was like oh my god no i've been like in a hell of my own making so kind about me and how i was like are you sure because i was like he must know what a terrible untrustworthy person i've become but he did it at all he's like you're the same wacko so come be in this weird play and i was like okay but from there i took some classes and yeah and the thing is this is what i can no longer deny when it comes to the acting thing for a while because as i said i brought it on stage and i thought i've sullied this now acting was my first addiction really like live performance but um i i i'm not allowed nice things anymore you ruined it you stupid girl but um but now i don't feel that way and i remember what a counselor at saint joseph's detox had said he and i got to talking because he'd been a stand-up comedian and in england and then he uh he started drinking drinking got out of control especially in a comedy bar situation it's like and i'm not i'm not referring to the comedy bar of toronto i just mean a comedy place with a bar um it's really hard to avoid drinking but it got out of control his friends noticed and he backed down and for the longest time he felt way too ashamed to even approach him and he was like i'm not gonna do this i'm not gonna do this i'm not gonna approach those clubs anymore to even talk to any of those people anymore but one day he's feeling a bit better he's got a few more years under his belt and he goes to see a show and his friend's there and he's like dude you don't have to drink to be here we just miss you we love you he's like it was like when you go to a meeting and they're just happy to see you he's like just come here he's like i won't drink with you just you're funny you got to get back to it and so he did and now he does in toronto do little stand-up things and sketch shows and i told him about the acting dilemma and he's like chloe i'm promising you if you don't do it you're gonna walk around with a hole in your heart you're gonna feel that feeling and he's absolutely right so the next step without overwhelming myself is um continue maybe dipping into some classes otherwise get that agent again get back to auditioning just like go and do my thing because i think in recovery i believe that when we've worked hard and we have a certain amount of time or healing accomplished i can say without it being prideful i am very good at what i do on that stage so i would really love to see what i can do now when i can bring this lived experience to the table because i am a little i have a little bit more perspective on what's actually scary and going into a room reading some lines probably poorly written a script like that's not as scary as it once was and i've got that edge now yeah i'm like robert downey jr basically yeah you know we're gonna be best friends like oh my god i can't wait you're gonna be on 10 more podcasts after this
Speaker 1and i was the first one so i'm you're welcome oh my god and i feel grateful oh man yeah no i could i i didn't know that about you and i don't maybe you told me but i think uh i think you'd be really good at it thank you have you ever tried doing stand-up thought about doing stand-up i actually
Speaker 3have it but i have been told many times that i should and i'm thinking like yeah why not give that a go too yeah why not especially if i could uh i think i could manage to talk about you know i wouldn't i wouldn't be representing aa of course um and i wouldn't break anyone's anonymity but i think i could come up with some pretty funny rants about what it's like to live with this brain and people would relate absolutely maybe more people than i realize and for the other people in the audience who like don't get it and who think this is the weirdest set i've ever seen they're really not going to bother me yeah which is yeah i feel bad for them yeah i think you have
Speaker 1a unique experience and i had a guy on here uh i don't know if you've ever seen him but i think he's a comedian and he's in recovery too and he was great yeah he uh he said that he was constantly talking about addiction and in his bits and then he kind of like tailored off a bit right so you kind of grow and change with it um but no i think you'd be good at it yeah thank you thank you very much um what what would you say is like the most important thing in your recovery right like to to someone that you know um can't stay sober keeps relapsing like what what would you say is what is the most important thing that keeps you sober today service service with my sponsees and
Speaker 3prayer like anything i do to create that connection to my higher power whatever moment i take when i realize oh fuck shit i'm out of it i've fallen out of the the connection and i gotta get it back that helps so prayer meditation conversation talking aloud to the guy um the guy the guy I'm like a guy the boss yeah exactly yes very much so um or I do talk to my grandma my sister not so much my dad but that's another story but um yeah but but being of service like first it started with just making coffee right and then it was set up and then I was elected secretary now I'm elected secretary for a second year now I have three sponsees it's like make yourself accountable give yourself reasons you gotta show up and especially start small you know um maybe greeting is too much for some people if you want to just like stay in the back and do the coffee you can do that you can even just like chill in the kitchen while the meeting goes on if it's all too much to you but for you but just make sure that like you got to be somewhere and show up for someone um and I found that this worked exactly the same for my goals at the gym because yes I could when I was at my sober living house we had a pass for the YMCA that we could just sign out but I knew that I'm starting to understand how little Chloe knows about Chloe so if in the past that's never worked I'm not going to start making those bullshit promises to myself again so I called my friend David who is the only personal trainer I like bothered to show up for occasionally when I was in active addiction because I liked his personality and I was like are you still doing that thing and he's like yeah but it's even better I'm not a good life anymore you don't have to buy a membership to the gym I work at I'm like sick so then it was people are like you're spending this money to go and work out for an hour why can't you just go to the gym it'll be free if you just go I'm like I can't just go that's the problem if I have to throw a bit of money at the issue I'm going to be accountable there's another human who showed up to this place expecting me to show up too otherwise I've made their entire trip pointless so I've got to go I've got to be there for them and now it's become like you know it's about the social aspect as well for me at the gym yeah yeah just but like also with a it's like now it's like for the people for the love I have for this program for the people in it yeah I'll show up for them how do I ever repay something that gave me everything you know
Speaker 1yeah it's tough I mean you got to do it in small moments right yeah give back like you said there's something that happens to um in service where for one or two hours out of the day whatever whatever the commitment is I'm not thinking about Anthony and I'm not thinking about what Anthony did yesterday or what Anthony has to do tomorrow and there's this kind of beautiful presence present moment that I can live in a mindful moment where I'm just me and myself and my higher power and enjoying life like as it ought to be enjoyed right yeah yeah yeah that
Speaker 3inner peace right and uh I find too there are little moments in my life outside of AA where I am still can be of service and if I ever have that feeling like mom's like take out the trash or whatever and I'm kind of like I could do it later I think no no I'm being of service to a woman who despite whatever flaws she may possess I love with all my heart she gave me my life quite literally I'm gonna go get up out of this circumstance I'm gonna go be of service to someone else for like a second and it's just all these little things like that will that will probably have guaranteed my sobriety for at least the next two hours and then you know I'll go to my meeting and then I'll probably make it home at the end of the day and still be sober yeah
Speaker 1um I want to ask you something a little bit more personal and feel free to not want to talk about it or or whatever but was there a moment in your recovery where um you maybe almost relapsed or or were close to relapsing yeah oh for sure
Speaker 3yeah what was it it was it wasn't even that long ago I think it just felt like um a lot of stuff happened at once there was an issue with my mom and then uh and then a lot of negative self-talk about like stupid stupid why did you do that you knew she'd have that reaction but the things that she said that particular day I believe it was like literally like in June it was this I was trying to set a boundary I had done everything right you know I had taken the time to go up to my room scream into my pillow beat the shit out of my pillow pray meditate think about my side of the street think about the language I've learned to talk about you know approaching when you're asking for something keep I statements all that stuff I brought my emotions down I went to her and that's what made it more frustrating was that when you do everything right and it still doesn't work I have that belligerent defiant you I knew it like this is I give up never doing it again exactly I'm like hopeless I knew it so like that voice is still there but that's how it went and I had to like just keep my composure but that day in particular she said some things that were like word for word uh things that she'd say a lot when I was younger and uh you know yeah she is she's just selfish and so it was hearing that again I I did not anticipate what uh flash back CPTSD kind of stuff that would suddenly erupt in my body so suddenly my body didn't belong to me and that's when it was like I didn't start walking to the LCBO or anything like that there's alcohol in the house didn't go for that either but I was um I was starting to plan I was starting to think what would be the worst thing that would happen what if I told my sponsor first this is what I'm gonna do and I don't care what you say it's happening you know like what how could I make it responsible so that I was in like a planning stage and I was like this is bad man like I haven't been um negotiating with God to to get this drink that I want and I was like this is a bad a serious bad side so it was instead call the sponsor tell her this is exactly what's going through my brain and I'm really scared right now because I haven't felt this way in a while and I didn't end up getting to that relapse and I'm I'm so glad for the the surrender I found in that moment and recently I found that I'd been really hard on myself for the fact that I'm completely willing yet still sometimes don't surrender just because I'm willing doesn't mean I'm gonna magically always do it because I have two years and a handful of months and that's not that long really when you look at other people and the truth is I don't think that quantity of time really matters in this thing I think it's the quality of your sobriety the dedication and the the openness and willingness to really give it all you got yeah and so that's what I did and I made it through that but it's absolutely possible I told my sponsees about it and I think I'm so grateful that I had that moment I'm so grateful that and I know it's not all up to me it's really my higher power working but it's like I um I had the sense to tell them the truth because old Chloe would have been like I can't tell them that they're gonna think I'm a fraud but I was like no I'm gonna tell her this is how close I just came today and she said wow you Jesus that really puts this into perspective and I was like I'm really welcome to recovery yeah I was like wow I'm so glad I
Speaker 1told you yeah well you make a lot of good points there but um I think a lot of people that are fresh in recovery that just come in and have no experience with getting sober or trying to get sober they we I did it too we tend to put people on pedestals right yeah totally these one year two year three year five year ten year people you're like that guy's like a god right now how was he how did he do that right he's got a suit on he's got his wife back he's got a car right and we put these people like kind of above us and any good sponsor I've ever worked with or or good member of recovery has that humility in them where most of them do actually where it's like no no man you know you and I are just as close to that drink the arm length away we're just as close you know we're the same we're just as you know the only difference is I'm a little bit we're on a road I'm a little bit further I have a couple more days down the road than you but the ditch is the same man like I'm we're on the same width of the road right the road is the same the ditch is right there on either side all I have to do is just pick up that one drink and I'm
Speaker 3worse off than you right so good you know I love that bowling balls gutter ball any minute you'd
Speaker 1never know there's no um bumpers on them you know recovery the ditch is deep you know yeah I've been in it many times right uh but the beautiful thing is is that recovery gives me a ladder to kind of climb back out right no one's going to come and pull me out of the ditch when I fall in but there's a ladder there that I have to you said there's a difference between being ready and being willing to do something yeah exactly I can say I'm willing until you know until I'm blue in my face but until I make that phone call and uh that is one of I always talk about in this podcast and in in life I would I would say hands down for me the most powerful tool in recovery is picking up the friggin phone and calling someone and and it doesn't even have to be picking up the phone because you could be in an underground parking lot one day right and that's where the God thing comes in is is it's it's telling somebody what your plan is or what how you're gonna your design or your your idea right you know I've always uh I've I've had a mentor that one used to say like if you have an idea call me if you have a plan I think go to a meeting or something like that was always his thing right it was like any idea that you have just fly it by somebody right it doesn't have to be like your sponsor or somebody uh in recovery even you know that's preferred right but there was a moment there where your life could have gone in a very different direction you might have died but you you don't know what I wouldn't be here right but you yeah exactly yeah you learned a tool in recovery that was tell somebody how like I said your plan and I'm exactly the same way that my phone is a thousand pounds sometimes because and it's almost always because of fear no it is always because of fear but it's usually the fear of judgment right like I'm doing really well and they know I'm doing really well how can I tell them that I'm I'm like how could I get vulnerable and tell them that I'm struggling it's the hardest thing to do well they'd be all concerned and like
Speaker 3the next three weeks calling me every day they're like yeah exactly I don't want to show that weakness weakness maybe I can just do this one on my own but yeah I don't have to yeah and and then
Speaker 1great juxtaposition of it the irony of it is that it's actually the strongest thing you can do is reach out for help right but we we tend to label it with weakness because it shows
Speaker 3vulnerability yeah and my perfectious thing i like that was what i was thinking about was i'm so willing yet sometimes i don't always surrender what's the deal with that why aren't i there yet i should be better at this by now all of this stuff that i would never say or feel towards someone else in the program but self-compassion is very difficult right but um but yeah but i'm like i forgive myself for the fact that i can't always surrender because that's that's okay it's just so long as i do the right things about the moments when i'm really struggling to surrender i feel i want to take that will back and those reactions i'm so afraid of when i show that weakness like when i told my sponsor i told my sponsor i never get the reactions that my brain makes up for me my brain is such a jerk it like tortures me with incredible scenarios that never end up actually happening especially when you're an actress yeah you all these scenes play out in your head oh 100 i've seen every movie like up here but um but yeah really quickly what you were saying i love so much about tell someone your plan because yeah it's like okay so i thought i was smarter than my disease i was not but i can outsmart my disease by telling someone the truth bam took away your biggest tool deny their addiction no more lies no more dishonesty everybody's in on it oh what's that it's not so fun anymore well suck my dick you don't win today bitch like i got it i told my sponsor our plan ha now you can't hide like my dick is like god damn it i love it we were gonna have so much fun together i was like you know that's not true
Speaker 1i love it i gotta have you in on my videos you have some great ideas do you remember brooklyn
Speaker 3nine nine yeah i do when the sergeant when uh he terry cruz he starts eating too much and he gets fat and then charles tries to help him by giving him cacao nibs but then he eats too many of those but then he's trying to pretend that he's not addicted to them and so he's making this big speech in the office he's like i took a look at them and i said not today nibs sometimes i literally quote that out loud when i feel my addiction creeping up i'm like not today nibs and then i make myself laugh brush it off tell someone my crazy story i love it and i'm back to life yeah
Speaker 1i had a counselor in my last treatment center that used to say you got to blow up your spot and that's exactly what you said it's like yeah i'll let you have that one yeah oh thank you thank you yeah courtesy of dave dave r but uh yeah i love that you said that you got to blow up your spot that you know it's that's every time i've relapsed it was because i had a secret and the secret starts as a little kindling fire in the back you know here it's behind the shed so no one really sees it um and then every minute day second whatever went by i didn't tell anybody about the little fire back there i just threw more gas on it right and then eventually i'm smoking meth in an airbnb with people that i don't know and some guy had it so it seemed like a good idea and i'm back in treatment for the third time you know i but i don't my brain doesn't go there right my brain just looks at yeah but like think about the dopamine hit that will come of this right yeah or think about uh you know all the feelings that'll go away right in this moment amazing um let's close with this okay and i always close with this and i know i always say that so i'm sorry but um if you could say something to someone struggling right now with addiction with mental health you know
Speaker 3just come off a fresh relapse what would you say um okay i'm gonna steal from the speaker we had at willowdale shepherd last night because he said to the newcomer what he was told the first time he ended up at a meeting so like if you're struggling you know um go to a meeting and then once you're there you are in the right place and everything's gonna be okay simple yeah yeah you're in the right place and everything's gonna be okay i love it
Speaker 1yeah and and for those that uh you know hate 12-step meetings it's okay right but there's there's smart recovery there's tons of other meetings absolutely tons of other recovery groups um i love i love that because it's like we can over complicate it right so much and it's like just show up to a place where other people have your best interests in mind exactly sober preferably sober and working on themselves and the rest will kind of work itself out right but
Speaker 3you got to show up even if you're you're not at a meeting yet you're home you're isolating you feel lonely if you if you fall to you get get on your knees put your hands up out palms up right you're in the right place even in that state you're in the right place and everything's going to be okay yeah yeah it will as long as i don't pick up today too right yeah and all one day at a time future is unknowable and we don't have to worry about it because of that so just just today just in this moment even because you can only be with god if you are in the moment god doesn't exist tomorrow or yesterday he's here right now that's it and i choose to call my higher power god but i i just want to clarify that it's not
Speaker 1a religious god yeah i always say it's a three-letter word that's easier right right great outdoors group of drunks good orderly direction um i love it thanks so much for coming down chloe thank you so much for having me that's amazing yeah i feel energized right now it's not because of the red bull i mean it's a little bit because of that a little bit you got energy and uh you know i think you can continue to help a lot of people i hope i'd like to yeah
Speaker 3if i can combine my passion for performance and addiction i'll have it made in the shade baby like that would be the dream smooth sailing yeah awesome thank you thank you anthony thanks for
Speaker 4listening please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone
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