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Speaker 2Welcome back, or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. If you or someone you love is struggling, please reach out to me on any social media platform. At Recovering Out Loud pod, you are no longer alone.
Speaker 3www.recoveringoutloud.com.
Speaker 2www.recoveringoutloud.com. That hit me, the spiritual, whatever, the recovery, the tip that you learned from it. I always leave putting my phone down, just feeling worse after.
Speaker 4Yeah, I mean, it's a coping mechanism that we use and just how much exposure there is to it, right? It's become like this crutch for people in our modern society to be dealing with, right? And the biggest thing is when we self-seek to try to get inspiration, get ideas. Get creativity, get content. What ends up happening is there's a piece of our brain that really gravitates towards the toxic comparison. Like, I'm not doing this as good as this guy. What's wrong with me? I must be a piece of shit. I must be inadequate, inferior, right? Or, you know, and then you end up getting caught in this, like, rabbit hole of, you know, other things, whether it's, you know, women or clothing or money or, like, you know, and again, we got to remember, like, the stuff that we see on social media, a lot of it is false. It's a highlight reel. It's a highlight reel, right? We don't really know. We see on the surface of how somebody is, quote, unquote, living, right? Which is a huge thing, especially in recovery in the beginning, right? Because we just gravitate and fixate towards that. It's an illusion, right? We want to get it. We want to get into that elusive perspective that one day we're going to get to that place and that's going to bring us the sense of happiness, right? And for a lot of folks, I mean, including myself, too, it's like drugs and alcohol. It's very fleeting, momentary, unsustainable, you know? And, you know, so even when you have your own business and you have your own sort of operation that you're working through and dealing with, you know, we try to gauge and gravitate towards these things. You know, we try to gauge and gravitate towards these, you know, sequences of inspiration and ideas and creativity. But what ends up happening a lot of times, too, is depending on the day that you're, you know, how you wake up or when you wake up on what side of the bed in the morning, you know, you can turn that into a negative, right? And you can sort of use that experience and create your narrative with it, right? And then, you know, you're sort of operating day to day or moment to moment. Based on that last sort of sequence and thought pattern that you had and how you sort of just like, you know, so it's like, you know, for you, it's like, you know, you're seeing somebody maybe do a podcast that's a little bit different or, you know, you see that they have a lot of viewers, a lot of followings and you're like, well, how do I get there? And then it's like, you make an impulsive decision based on emotion, right? And we, we, we know the rule with us as addicts. It's like when we make decisions based on emotion, it typically doesn't go well. Right. Because it's a, you know, you're, you're, you're trying to sort of fix a, a feeling, right? We fixed feelings for a long time with drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 2Use outside things to fix my insides.
Speaker 4Use outside things to fix my insides.
Speaker 2I think most of the time it's fear too, right? Like you can always, I mean, it talks about it in recovery literature, but it can almost always be traced back to fear. And what does it say? It's like, I'm, I'm afraid of losing something I have or not getting something I want. Right. And usually, I mean, it fluctuates between both, but. I, I like what you said, you said that, uh, you're comparing material things, but you made a good point too, where it's like, I can also compare my mental health to other people, right? Like this guy's talking about, I don't know, some journaling trick or something that he does every morning. He meditates or whatever. And then I'm like, fuck, I'm not doing that. You know, I should be doing that. And then I'm overcomparing. I'm hyper responding that the, I was telling you about that modern wisdom podcast. He did an episode of everything. He does these like yearly recaps of what he's learned from. All the guests and the guy is just fluent with his words. Like he's just the way he like self analyzes himself and, and talks about what the narrative in his head is just, it's perfect. Like he is very fluent with that. And he talks about, um, he talks about hyper, hyper responders to, uh, advice, hyper responders, right? So the people that generally need to hear the advice online. So whether it's, I need to be doing this, or I should be doing this in my recovery. Just tips to make us better, whatever advice, the people that need to hear it generally aren't hearing it, but the people that are probably already doing it are hyper responding to the advice and then they're overdoing it.
Speaker 3Right.
Speaker 2So if I'm, uh, if I'm a people pleaser and I'm online and I'm, I'm like how to not be a people pleaser or how to, you know, be confident with yourself, I'm already doing okay in that area. I just don't, I don't think I am so that when I see the advice come up, I'm like, Oh, I gotta fit. And then I'm now I'm over compensating for it. For my people pleasing skills. And then now I'm being an asshole. Like that's just an example. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 4Yeah, for sure. I think that, you know, the accessibility that we have to information like that, where it's like, okay, like who's doing the self appraisal, how who's doing the appraisal, you know, of, of how I'm doing in these areas. Right. Because when I leave it to myself, I'm typically going to be the one that's going to kick the shit out of myself, you know, and, uh, be the hardest on myself. Right. So I have to ask other people in that, right. Because like you said, when I start feeling this type of way about myself, whether it's my ability to feel like I'm inadequate, whether it's, you know, just, just a thought that I have, cause I still have, you know, negative thinking about myself. I still compare myself to other people. And then it's like, well, here I am trying to fix it. Well, what's a better way to access information to try to fix something? Well, I'm going to look on online. Oh, online is telling me that I, you know, if I pray five times a day, I'm going to be this different person. Or if I just, uh, you know, eat a specific diet or, or food groups that I'm going to feel, you know, amazing by myself. Now, truth be told, sure. You know, it might work, but if I'm, you know, I have to look at what is it that I'm trying to fix here, because if it's me trying to just, you know, change the way that I, uh, um, you know, operate with my weight and my health, you know, and, and it's not a direct reflection of who I am as a person, then, okay. That is. That is a something that I can do. But when I start making it about me trying to fix myself and here is all of the things that I'm going to do in order to fix myself, that's where I start going down a dangerous path.
Speaker 2And you're in like a vicious cycle, chasing the dragon, chasing the dragon, chase the dragon without drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 4Yeah, exactly. Right. So, you know, and then we become obsessive. Right. And, you know, someone once told me that obsession is the direct reflection of my dissatisfaction with my current circumstances. Right. So when I get into obsession, why am I being so obsessed about something? It's because I'm trying to fix a void inside of me to the point where I get obsessive over something. Right. And we know that obsession for, you know, anybody really is, is not a good thing, but you, you know, you, um, you look at the way that we view things as, as, uh, people in recovery and, you know, the way that our minds operate and we will take it. We will take things to the extreme black or white, black or white, right. To the point where it could start making my life unmanageable again. Right. So like today, you know, you know, for guys like myself and you, for me anyways, I'll speak for myself is it's not about drugs and alcohol. It's, it's, it's, how do I have balance in my life? So I, cause I can take anything and let it become unmanageable in my life. You know, whether it's trying to make more money, whether it's trying to, you know, I'm to... be the best at something, whether it's me comparing myself to, you know, coworkers, people in the industry, seeing what they're doing. And how do I do that? Right. Like, you know, I, I go through those moments all the time. I mean, should I, I just hadn't, you know, I have, I had experience over that last week, like seeing what, you know, other, you know, treatment centers are doing and how other people I've worked with in the past, what they're doing, how they present themselves, what they're posting, what they're not posting. And I'm like, should I, I need to, I need to change how I, how I do things. Right. And, and, and, and it's because, you know, you know, I'm uncomfortable. I can be uncomfortable with, without getting that, like approval, you know, of like somebody else saying, Hey man, like you're doing a good job, you know, or like whatever the case is. Right. But again, that's my own head space and my own way of how I'm viewing things and, you know, not feeling like I'm, I'm, I'm adequate enough. Right. And, um, you know, and it's still, it's still something that, that, that, that comes up and it could be a, a big indicator with where I'm at in recovery.
Speaker 2The problem for me when I, uh, when I think about that, cause I think about two things when you're talking, I'm like, how does that affect my life negatively? And then what's the solution? Those are my two thoughts. Right. And so I'll speak for myself. Uh, I also, I agree with you. I'm, it's not about, I haven't thought about using in a while. Um, when I do it's, it's more so that illusory freedom that drugs gave me, like I kind of, that's what I miss is that state of illusory freedom where I can just shut this phone off. I don't have to listen. I don't have to have responsibilities. That's what my brain tells me is good about drugs. Yeah. Well, again, it's,
Speaker 4it's that, it's that whole idea of like, how do I want to look at responsibility in my life today? Right. When I'm using responsibility is a burden. When I'm in recovery, responsibility is a privilege. Right. Because, you know, when we look at, you know, and I think I've said this on your, on your podcast before, it's like, you know, I, I wished for responsibility. I wished for dependability. I wished for, you know, people to like, look at me and say like, Hey, this guy's a functional person to be useful, to be useful. Right. And, uh, you know, we could, we quickly forget that when things can get hard, when, uh, you know, things are, might not be going, the way that you thought that they were going to be going, um, you know, patients, all of those things. Right. So it's just, you know, when, when, when you don't feel like that's happening and when you, you add in, you know, different elements from circumstances, it's like, you put yourself in this like rat race of like negative thinking, you know, negative connotations. And the glass is always half empty. The glass is always half empty.
Speaker 2You're never noticing the gifts in your life. Yeah. The other thing too, it does, uh, when I, in that rumination for me is it doesn't allow new creativity, new positive thoughts, new service thoughts. I can't be useful if I'm constantly thinking about those things. So that for me, that's the biggest problem is like, if I'm comparing, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. We always, I always love that one. Um, but it's like, I'm always trying to, the rat race is a good example. I can't allow new productive thoughts to come into my mind or ideas. Or, uh, service really, how can I be of service? And then, so I want to hear how you kind of deal with this, but for me, it's like, I've been getting a lot of mileage lately out of listening to, um, certain recovery tapes where people give talks and also, uh, workshops, a lot about spirituality. I've been leaning into spirituality lately, like full stop, man, it's been saving my ass. And I just, I don't know about you, but when I'm connected and I feel tapped in in the morning or throughout the day, I'm talking to my higher power. Um, it's, it just, I just ease and comfort. That's really what it is. Right. So I've been getting a lot of mileage out of this. Like problem comes up, emotion comes up. I'm literally, I'm a visual person. I'm picturing myself like grabbing the problem with my hands and just like turning it over to the universe and saying, can you work on this for me? Because I'm not qualified to work on this. Plus I have no control over this outcome, whatever the situation may be. I'll check back in with you tomorrow. I love the metaphor of, um, you know, going on an airplane. And when you check your bags, you put all your problems in that bag and then you get on the plane. When I land, I'll, I'll, I'll come back to you. And then you have a different perspective when you come back to it.
Speaker 4Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's a good sort of, um, model to, to, to, to understand. Right. But again, it's consistency, right? Like I pray in the morning every day and I, and I try to get myself tapped in. Do I miss days? Sure. Do I, I, you know, get up some days and feel like, well, what am I doing here? And, uh, I gotta, I gotta do this today. Sure. Right. But again, I have to hear other people's messages in order for me to understand that I don't, I'm not alone here. Right. So you're right. Like, like lots of meetings, going to meetings, um, you know, hearing people's, um, you know, message. And it's like, you know, even, uh, the other day I, I, I zoomed in on a, on a meeting out in a West and, uh, you know, somebody is taking their, their two year medallion. And, you know, sometimes I need to hear, you know, the, the message of like how simple it is. Right. Because in the beginning, even though it's so difficult to manage, it's just, how do I not use drugs and alcohol? Right. I look at that today and say, well, you know, that kind of felt like it was, it was, it was, it was simple, but it hard, but it, but the concept of it was simple. And then it's like, okay, so I have some, some, some time under my belt. And it's like, now like I'm not saying, you know, drug addiction isn't, it's a real problem, but now I'm dealing with like, what normal living people in society are dealing with Rogers Rogers. Yeah. Yeah. I was just, uh, I'm late for this podcast because I've been on the phone for an hour and 25 minutes trying to, you know, navigate through some issues that, uh, that happened with, and it's just like testing my patients. Right. So, you know, I, you know, just having this conversation right now with you is putting, you know, at a more ease, right. Which is important. Cause you know, my head goes to like, I'm not fucking doing this. I gotta, I gotta deal with this and like, I'm sorry. I, you know, but like, I'm glad that, uh, you know, I, I told him, I said, I gotta call you guys back because I have another commitment. And, uh, you know, before I wouldn't do things like that, I would just, uh, you know, it didn't matter who, what, what commitment it made to anybody, really. I would just, uh, do my own thing. Cause it's about me and my own self. Right. And, uh, you know, so like hearing, hearing other people's messages, like, again, it's, it's things that I know, but I have to hear it to feel like I'm reinforced again. Right. And, uh, you know, if I'm in a place where I'm feeling like I'm spiritually content, I will take that information and be like, okay, like this is something that's useful for me because I need to hear it. If I don't and I'm not, and I'm not present with it, then I can say it's another guy yammering about the same shit I've been hearing over and over again for the last seven years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know? So yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's definitely, it's definitely something that, um, you know, we look at, and again, you know, just like looking at this last year for myself, like doing a real self appraisal, like there's, there's, I got a lot of work to do on myself still. Right. And, uh, because other things come up all the time, right. The way that I handle constructive feedback, the way that I handle criticism, the way that, uh, you know, again, like that not trying to compare myself to other people and what they're doing on a daily basis, there's so much right. And, uh, again, like I, I gotta remember that I gotta put recovery, um, first in every area of my life. Right. And if I don't do that, then, you know, I'm, I'm gonna, you know, get the consequences that come with it. Right. Whether they're good or they're bad. Right. So, um, you know, that's, it's so important to remember that. Right. And, uh, anyway, so I was listening to a guy speak the other day about, um, you know, how he just got two years and, um, you know, the father of the guy gets on stage there, it's a podium meeting. And, uh, you know, the dad goes, the dad goes, um, you know, after, after two years, we finally trust you. Finally gave you the key. You can go water, you know, you can go garden and, and, and you can kind of take care of the house. We're going to Florida and, uh, you know, you're here's a key. Here's the keys. And, and, and you can go into this house now and we trust you two years. Right. It's like, well, people want that. Right away. People think that just because they go to treatment that we can trust you again. No, but it takes consistency. You gotta, you gotta walk through that. Right. Like at the end of the day, you know, uh, one, one of my, my colleagues, he says at best, he says, uh, you know, I, I look, I used to look at people's mouths. It's like, now I look at their feet. Right. I can't listen to someone's mouth. I gotta look at their feet, watch their feet because it's action. Right. And, uh, and I thought that that was such a simple, sort of concept because it's like, I trust you again. Right. And it's like, yeah, it's, it just brings it back to the basic actuality of like, yeah, like I remember, I remember having to go through that. Right. And my family trusts me today. Right. And that's such a huge gift, but I forget about that because I have all these other things going on in my life. Right. I got, I got to remember that, you know, my family and I have a good relationship today. My, my dad trusts me again. And it's, and it's, and it's, it's, I forget, right? And it's so simple. But I have to hear other people going through that experience. experience to take it back to myself to be like okay like i'm this is where i'm grateful for that
Speaker 2what a blessing what a blessing yeah i got goosebumps as you're saying that because i think every i'll speak for myself but i think most addicts and alcoholics can relate to that that it reminds me too of how much i dragged my family through the mud and my wife and it to your point it's like in the one of my favorite parts in the recovery literature it talks about that gives the metaphor of the guy going underground during the tornado and then he comes up and everything's a mess the tornado just wiped out everything but he comes back and he's like what's wrong here guys like what's going on what's you know everything's okay and that's what happens when we come a lot of us that's what happened for me anyways especially relapsing after eight years and coming back and going back home i came back and i was like okay guys like why aren't you all here with my level of healing right but i forget my wife was calling the police stations every night my wife was calling the morgue like those were things that were actually happening that she told me after and i to your point i forget yeah and i just expect everyone to just kind of yeah be here with me yeah right because i've been
Speaker 4working on myself yeah let's go guys we think about it too like you know the holiday is coming up christmas is coming up right one of the things that we teach uh at work is for clients is you know we have a group called holiday hurdles and a lot of people because you know it's like that that entitlement is so so pertinent pertinent and it's just like it's like it's like it's like it's you know it's like oh my family wants me to come home for holidays like let's roll the red fucking carpet out yeah put all the alcohol away lock it all up because i'm coming home me right and it's like i see this all the time and it's like you know people are like yeah my family needs me it's like yeah they do need you they need a break that's what they need you know and uh and it's like you know we so again like in the beginning stages of like trying to get you know clean and sober and being in treatment it's still about you and and and and your feelings and you're this and you're not really you know some a lot of times you you sort of don't take into account everybody else and how they're doing and how they're feeling and what they're going to go through right because it's a it's a big deal right and uh you know i have families all the time that tell me it's like i i feel so like i don't know how i feel like i feel just like like paralyzed you know i don't want to feel like this but this is what's coming up like you know jimmy's coming home for for christmas and uh i don't know how i feel about that i feel nervous i feel anxious what if you run you know what if he takes off and goes you know to the bar so it's like why even put your family through that kind of stuff yeah like it's it's it's the holidays but it's one year right sacrifice right so that you can the following year and the years after that show up and be somebody that's functional and you give yourself enough of a rapport and they give yourself enough of a track record to allow your family to have some ease and comfort and and take that anxiety away right and uh you know i think that that's such a a tried and true model but again you're right it all comes back to fear everything comes back to fear fear of missing out fear fear of you know not belonging fear of and and and you can do the same thing with your family where it's like those same sort of feelings resonate with you right so if you feel like that with your family imagine when you're out in day-to-day and feeling like like that when you're you know talking about your professional life where you're talking about your relationships with your friends relationships with you know girlfriends and boyfriends like you know that it magnetizes even more to the extreme because this is not your family right so if you're feeling like this with with family can you imagine how you're gonna feel with other people right that inadequacy you don't know and you don't know right or or you're trying to fit in what you're trying to feel and you're trying to fit in with what you're trying to feel um like you're a part of right and i think that's the beautiful thing about recovery is you know i learned early on that i need to walk through this with other people so i can feel like i belong right even if it's for that specific time in my life i'm going to lean into the program i'm going to lean into other addicts and alcoholics trying to get better on the same sort of wavelength on the same path that is where i feel like i belong right and then as you get sober and you get sober you're going to feel like you belong right and then as you get sober and you get connected and you're you know doing this and you're helping other people other people are helping you you know you start to see it trickle into your other relationships in your life with your family your friends your business your work your you know your romantic relationships all of
Speaker 2those things right and uh it's powerful yeah it's like building skills right yeah um i got this question on instagram when i when we were supposed to meet last time i and somebody this is i'm happy you brought this up because the holidays are a stressful time for a lot of people coming back uh from using drinking coming back from rehab what's something that you tell family members some tips um family member has to have new alcoholics someone struggling come home for holidays what's a good sort of piece of advice that you give people
Speaker 4well i mean it's really just about you know i mean every situation is different depending on the circumstance but it's really just about you know it goes back to the three c's that we tell families you can't control it can't cure it didn't cause it right so i think a lot of times what happens with family members is they try to over micromanage or over you know indulge or or or overcompensate you know and um it's just it's it's very difficult to tell a mom or dad hey like take a step back from from from your son or your daughter right now because you know that can put them in a in a in a cycle of like tension and and that's where like that control piece comes in right because as a as a parent you know i still i go through this with my kid all the time i'm trying to control because i want the best outcome for them right but what i do when i'm trying to control is i inhibit their ability to really see things for themselves and then give them the ability to have a little bit of wiggle room and grace right and i think that's what i you know tell people is you know just just learn how to you know just be the way that it is right now and and don't make any mistakes and just be the sort of assumptions on how someone's going to be even though their track record proves otherwise right and uh you know if you're going to have somebody home for the holidays if you're going to be in a place where it's like anxiety and riddled like fear and all of these things then why even have that in the first place you know set the proper boundary of like you know we don't feel comfortable with you coming home today and that's okay that doesn't mean we don't love you we just we don't trust you yet right and that's going to take some time but you know if they do come home for the holidays i i just you know it's just about uh treating them like like you would always treat them um and not worry or micromanage about the little things and again it's out of your control what someone someone does right and the more that you try to control outcomes for for other people the more you're going to feel like expectations were or not were broken and it's going to make you feel disappointed yeah
Speaker 2you know um i was i was having lunch with my mom yesterday and uh she still goes to the rehab that i went to she goes to the family program there she loves it because she sees people same thing probably the same reason why we go to our groups is you see these people come in and it reminds you how broken and how disheveled and how distraught you were um my mom wasn't sleeping right and she she reminds me like i forget the all the nights that i'm just doing my thing like what i'm just doing my thing and i'm just like i'm just doing my thing i'm not hurting anyone else right the common you probably hear that all the time in the rehab um but she was dealing with another mom that you know i don't know where my son is i don't know what to do and the only thing you really can do and this is what she did for me is like that that check-in right i'm here when you're ready i'm here but the more you try to control like you said and the at the end of the day is like when i'm controlling other people i'm projecting my fears onto them and my inadequacies and my hole that you talked about my void i'm projecting it onto them so that's the hardest part that's the hardest part about recovery and also i think from the parent parental side is to my two favorite words let go right surrender and and let go yeah
Speaker 4i mean how it's a it's it's it's a simple concept but how do you combat that when you're so emotional and you're so living in fear it's like let go i'm full of fear here i can't let go if i let go and if something happens boy am i gonna kick myself yeah right but again it's like if i don't let go and i try to keep pushing what if something happens you know how about that right so it's like you know i think for family members of loved ones that are struggling with addiction i think it's almost like a trial and error thing it's like well i already tried you know taking away their their their access to money or kicking them out of the house the car or taking away their car or whatever the case is and that hasn't helped and then i had other people say well i've tried to take a step back and allow the person to help to make decisions and that hasn't worked either so what do i do now right and now you don't know right and it's it's tough as a as a family uh member to to see that for somebody because all you want is that person to get better but you have no control over it like you can help and be a part of the the process and what i've seen over my years of doing this is that when the family is involved with the recovery piece and learning about recovery concepts and being a part of this journey universally, the transition is a lot more smoother. When they remain open-minded, teachable, right. Just like, just like us. Right. And, uh, and allowing that to happen. And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's tough, right? Like, you know, I had a kid the other day, uh, you know, you know, his mom, very, very tough on him and understand this, that that is a little bit less. And, uh, you know, kid, kid somehow swindles his father to send him 50 bucks and he goes and uses. It's like, fuck it. I'm talking to the father. I'm such an idiot. He says, you're not an idiot. You know, you're just, you want to give people, but you want to give them the benefit of the doubt because you really want to believe that he's better and changing. And it's, it's a learning experience. It's a learning experience for you. Right. And unfortunately the only way that we really learned through things, you know, us in general, but even family is a lot of times through trial and error and pain and pain and pain. Right. Whereas we forget about how painful the scenario is and the situation was. And we go back to that euphoric recall of like, yeah, yeah, it wasn't that bad. This wasn't that bad. That wasn't that bad. Using wasn't that bad. Drinking wasn't that bad. Stealing and lying and cheating wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2Is the reason for that as simple, as this is the way I like to think of it because I've, I've found since being in recovery that everyone has that, that forgetter thing, right. That is a universal trait that we all sort of share is what I found. Forgetting how bad it was without being connected. Right. If when it's one of the reasons we stay connected to your point, to remember how bad it was. I like to think of it as my addict brain is just trying to get me to use. Right. It's that's more simple for me. Do you think there's like more science behind it or like a more? Yeah. I mean, are there reasons why that is?
Speaker 4I mean, yes, it's like, you know, you can look at the, you know, it depends on, it depends on the philosophy that you're trying to teach, right? Like a lot of people will go to the neurobiology of, of, of someone's brain. Right. And it's like, there's your brain and there's the attic brain. Right. And, and, and that is, there's some truth to that, right? Like, cause we all have a frontal cortex. We all have a, you know, the middle part of our brain, which, which deals with the emotion and the reptilian brain in the back. Right. But a lot of times it's like, how do you want to present this information to someone? Right. Cause you know, when I learned early on was addiction, isn't like some, some black cloud that's just like you're riding your bike along and it's like, Oh my God, it's coming. It's going to suck me into the vent. Like the, the clown from it. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's the shittiest version of me and I need to learn how to make change. And yes, there are times and, and there's oftentimes in the beginning where I can't control what my brain is thinking, you know, but I can control what my actions around it. Right. Like, and again, it, it goes back to you know, I think about the book by the power of now by Eckhart Tolle, where, you know, we talk about how the brain is the most, is the most powerful muscle in the body because it controls our actions towards things. Right. And learning how to lean in more to the, to the, to the physical, to the physicality of, of your body and how your body is feeling rather than thinking about your mind because the mind plays tricks on you and is a huge weapon. Right. And you know, so to answer your question about, you know, the attic brain and you know, that, that, that sequence, it's, it's, I've learned in my, you know, my recovery that a lot of times it goes back to, to cognitive behavioral therapy. I need to do things and feel the rewards of them later on, right. So I just need to take the action and I need to change. I need to change the behavior before my brain changes. Right. I can't, I can't think into a new way of living. I have to live into a new way of thinking. I love that. Right. I have to learn how to live. I have to do the action before I start to feel better. Right. Because there's always this payoff, right? I think the way that our brains and the way that reality and is today is we're all looking for that payoff, that initial instrument, instant instantaneous payoff. Right. But when we don't get the payoff, it's like, ah, shit, this doesn't work. Right. Like if I'm dieting and working out for a month and I don't feel like I'm losing weight, I'm going to, what am I going to do? I'm going to say, screw this. I'm not doing this anymore. Right. But it's just about the discipline. And I think that, you know, the more that we're exposed to so many different services out there, I think that the discipline piece starts to become affected by that because I'm constantly looking at all their options. What's the quickest, softest way. What's the easiest way. You know, how do I lose weight in a healthy way? Oh no, I can just, you know, take a Zempik or, or, or I can, you know, whatever, you know, the shortcut. Right. And, um, and yeah, like it's, you know, that's just as a society is what we, what we try to do. Right. What's the, what's the shortest way to take the pill. Yeah. Take the pill.
Speaker 2Yeah. It reminds me of instant gratification versus delayed gratification. And recovery is all about delayed gratification. Training your brain. I love that though, man. It's like, it goes back to your watching the feet, not the mouth. Right. Like I can hear a million podcasts, a million speaker tapes, a million people share, but unless I'm actually doing what they're saying or doing what they're doing, hanging out with them, going, doing service. It's, it's almost like you're, you're planning, you're being proactive on your thoughts, right? Like I'm going to get ahead of this because I know those negative thoughts are coming. It's, it's inevitable. They're going to come. What am I going to do when they come? Well, if I'm, I'm going for coffee with people in recovery, if I'm being of service, if I'm doing the things that every single fucking person tells me to do, but I don't want to, that's the thing, right? I don't want to do it, but they're all doing it and they're happy. Maybe I'll just try. Right. And then it's like, yeah, you're training your brain to, to wait for gratification. And it's a, it's a totally different type of gratification too. Right. How much better do you feel when you lose weight, putting in the work and scraping your knee and going through those hard things. Then when you put a needle in your body,
Speaker 4and it was epic and, and it just happens overnight. Right. I mean, maybe in the, in the initial process of it is, is you don't feel better, but you know, it's, it takes time. Um, you know, and I still struggle with, with doing things like that because it's like how, how, you know, the thought of like the whole process is so daunting sometimes, depending on where your headspace is at. But when you actually get through that process, you start, you appreciate it. Right. And, uh, but again, we stop at that process at some point where it's like, it's too, I can't, it's too much for me. Right. You know, like, and it goes back to, I like what you said there with, with, uh, you know, the, the, the one pill, right. It's like, remember, I don't know if you, if you remember this, but I think like, maybe it was like five, six years ago, they, uh, what they were thinking, they were saying, Oh, we're going to, they're going to come up with a pill to cure addiction. Hmm. Right. A pill. So you take this pill, you're not going to want to take it. You don't want to use drugs. Cravings gone, cravings gone. Right. Imagine that. Right. And it's like, really, you know, my head went to like, man, if, what if I take two or three of these, you know, that makes me feel really like, I really don't want to use drugs and alcohol, you know, some old people don't really think like that, you know? Um, but it, yeah. If one is good, five must be, if one is amazing, five must be amazing. Right. So, yeah, man, it's just, you know, today it's just really about how do I navigate through the challenge that's in front of me at that particular moment. Right. Like I went through this morning, like it seems like such a simple thing, but like, you know, if I get into the context of it, it's like, Jesus Christ, that's, that's, you know, and, uh, again, I, I, I, you know, you cannot predict human behavior. You can't, um, you know, you, you know, again, and that's where I got to let up, let go of control and, uh, and, uh, you know, allow myself to just be like, this is what it is. How do I just do the best I can in this situation? Given the circumstances that I'm involved in, you know, and, uh, you know, if you live like that, you know, things will be good. Um, you know, and then, you know, but also too, it's like, you want to learn how to let go and not control and not have control of other people placed in things, but you also don't want to be a doormat either. You know? Um, so there's, I think a balance with that too. And I think that that's where, you know, if I'm dealing with a situation or I'm speaking to a friend like yourself in recovery and I say, Anthony, this is, what's going on for me, you will have an objective perspective around it because you don't have an emotional sort of tie to it. So you can maybe give me some sound advice. Whereas I couldn't, you know, give myself that, that same advice. Right. I have to hear other people's perspective on things. Yeah. It doesn't matter if I know them or not. That aren't emotionally involved, that are emotionally involved. It doesn't matter if there's somebody that's fucking has nothing and is struggling with their own addiction. Right. I learned that that's, that was such a powerful thing that I learned because I always thought that I have to, you know, talk to a psychologist, a psychiatrist, you know, or, or a professional that can help me feel like I'm, you know, how do I be less shitty? Right. Or like, you know, how do I, how do I fix myself? Fix, fix me. You know, I get it all the time. So, you know, people go to my, you didn't fix my son, you know, fix them, fix them, fix them, fix them. And it's like, we don't, we don't do that. Right. We give people a navigational plan. But it's up to them to, to listen. I can't change anybody. I can only provide it. insight on this is what i did or this is what i've seen and this is what has worked for people in the past you know you take what you can and you leave the rest so you know i i think that that's it's it's super cool man like uh you know like even just sitting here just talking like i i'm so grateful for for everything that i have and you know in the holiday season is is always a time where you know it's a hard time for people um you know it's even for me like you know because i don't have a lot of family that you know celebrate holidays like my parents i mean i'm jewish right so my parents live in florida you know so i i don't i'm not like in the christmas like dynamic of like oh we're going to family you know what i mean so you know it's always it's always a hard time for for people and it's you know someday some years it's it's not easy for me either and you know you want that right again but it's like okay well i'm looking at you know my friends here and like all these things that they're doing with their their kids or whatever that you know the case is and it's just like i gotta be grateful that you know i'm alive and i'm able to sort of navigate and function in the best way i can right given my my set of circumstances right and my my situation is going to be you know different than somebody maybe there's some things that i want from that particular situation and that's okay but i cannot allow that to dominate the way that i think about myself because that's not me that's somebody else's life that's somebody else's circumstances that's somebody else's family right and and it all looks good when i see it on paper but do i really know what's happening in depthly behind that right and i forget about that it's like you want all these things okay but here's all the challenges that come with it right not any situation that we put ourselves that we have there's always going to be a challenge to it right like you know for you you know you're married you know and uh i'm sure like people will be like wow like anthony's so lucky he's gonna you know beautiful but they don't know the challenges that you're dealing with on with a dynamic piece right or they see your family and they're like oh it's beautiful family so lucky it's like yeah yeah he is but you don't see the come internally with that either right so on paper everything looks looks great but you know they don't really know the specific situation or the circumstances what's happening right so it's like okay i want these things because i'm seeing them on other people but do i really want them because or do i really want that situation because i don't know what comes with that yeah it's like
Speaker 2yeah do i want the results of the the good benefits the results the on paper stuff like you said i want the daily maintenance that it takes to to have a good marriage because yeah my wife and i we've been through a lot right yeah and you know the universe life my addiction has tested our relationship and i think that all pain is a touchstone of spiritual growth i truly believe
Speaker 4that we've become stronger as a result i agree too i agree too it's like you know you know people like oh i want kids or it's like people people want that people like the idea the idea seems very very gratifying and and intoxicating but it's like are you willing to put in the work to deal with the day-to-day of that right i don't know right you might think you are but who knows right um and i'm not trying to like say that you know if you want kids you shouldn't have kids because this is what comes with that i'm not i'm just saying like are you like are you ready and and and you don't really know until you until you do it right but i think people really gravitate on the powerfulness of of the idea of things and how they think it's gonna work or how they how it ought to work and it's like you know then you just come over with a whole different beratement of
Speaker 2challenges so yeah man i don't know yeah and then it's like resentments come with it because they're not meeting your expectations of what you thought it would be and there's a whole other yeah yeah it also kind of goes back to i think for at least i don't know i'll speak for myself again but when you see someone with a nice car or a lot of money on the outside it's the same thing i want the results but you don't know the work that they're putting in for one to get to that place to achieve that success i use the word success loosely right monetary success but there's also a lot of daily work that goes with keeping that right and um one of the best pieces of advice my dad like one of the best things he ever said to me was you have to live within your means right spend less than you make it's like that is the simple fundamental way to like achieve financial freedom is just living within your means right and so i don't know i i went through a lot of a long time of i had this resentment towards rich people um and that was again that was something with me it was like i think it went back to this comparison of well i don't have the hublot watch you know i saw a guy in my elevator in my building there's a lot of like i there's a raptors player that lives in my building so i see a lot of like really well-off people wearing really fancy watches and uh i you know suits and i assume that they're like ceos and and i i had this resentment for a long time i'm still kind of working through that and like what what is that about but i think it's like it's it's a resentment towards myself of not
Speaker 4being where they are yeah for sure it's easy to gravitate but let me ask you this is your hublot watch gonna hug you at the end of the night and tell you that it loves you yeah right is is a nice car gonna come into your bedroom and and and give you a hug and say hey anthony i appreciate you no right yeah that's that's it's it's the people right in life and these things are all you know things that you have like the comfortability of it but it's not going to bring you sustainable happiness right it's like when you talk about recovery i think i've mentioned this before with you but like you know that the compartmentalization it's like i'm doing so well in these areas but don't talk to me about my finances don't talk about my marriage don't talk to me about my kids don't talk to me about my my uh infidelity you know those things because look at all these other things are going well right and it's like that i always use i love this analogy the the car and the broken windshield right someone's driving along and they have a crack in the windshield and you tell them hey you have a crack in your windshield and they tell you oh look at the beautiful paint job on this car and you're like yeah but you have a crack in your windshield you're like yeah look at the tires i just got new 20 inch rims and beautiful like it's like yeah but you have a crack in your windshield it's like oh i'll come take a take a look at the inside of it it's a beautiful car tvs everything but you're you're you're swaying away from the area where it's like you have a crack in your windshield like that needs to be fixed forget about all the other things that you have what about this thing right i think a lot of that we correlate in recovery with like okay i'm doing well in all of these areas so don't talk to me about this piece right and that's where i see people fall by the wayside is that compartmentalization you know and it's happened to me too right it never
Speaker 2stays a crack too that's the other thing that's the i think that's the point of the whole analogy is like next week your whole windshield is shattered and you're still focused on your tires yeah yeah don't talk to me about it about my meeting attendance or yeah or my lack of step or whatever step work yeah um yeah that's a good one and and i i find we have to land this plane because i have uh somebody else and we're going to talk about gambling but i'm really grateful that you came here man i appreciate i
Speaker 4love talking to you i love talking recovery we'll do it we'll do it we'll do a a nice anytime nice
Speaker 2one hour one two hours it'd be nice to get like i have three microphones too so it'd be nice to get
Speaker 4like yeah you eric in here and we'll just do it fucking talk fucking do it we'll give me erica we
Speaker 2yeah we'll do it talk about what's going on and uh how we deal with it right yeah it's good we
Speaker 4feel we gotta you know we feed off of each other with that right it gives us the inspiration in
Speaker 5the home thanks brother thanks for listening please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction treatment or therapy please contact us at addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone
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