“I Saw a Triangle Shaped UFO At a NASA Hangar!” -Dylan Borland Tells All

take me back to Langley Air Force Base 2012, what exactly did you see? Outside Smoking is cigarette on the phone BSN and I see a light pop up near the NASA hangar. And the light starts to fly to me across the base and as it flies to me, a triangle manifests around it. How fast did it move between 100 feet off the ground approximately to at minimum 30,000 commercial jet elevation two to three seconds? My name is Dylan Portland, a former one-in-one geospatial intelligence specialist for the United States Air Force, so you experience this and then what happens next. So I was working at BAE and somebody who worked for the government, they heard about me talking about the triangle and they thought I was right into the program because they were. That's when I came into knowledge about a very specific program. I am sure there are crafts that were not made by humanity at this current time and place when we recovered them. Have you ever talked to anybody who seems to have hinted that humans aren't in charge? The ICIG did it. Well, the intelligence community inspector general told you that humans are not in charge. They are extremely hinted out of us. What's so blower is going to the ICIG if they disclose CIA secrets in Department of Energy secrets, they are not allowed to be prosecuted for espionage. Which is a death penalty. How could you ever, you know, say that somebody's committing treason for drawing a hieroglyphic while simultaneously saying that the whole UFO program is fake? The non-human intelligence pyramid power source. I've been read into so much stuff, I don't even know what I was read into. They said I have PTSD for a job that they're claiming I never did. I get hooked up to this polygraph machine and there's a computer where they're flashing images and air horns have to count backwards from 100 by 7 and if I went 193, 86 instead of saying 79, 78, the air horn would go off and I would have to restart and they would restart the flashing images. What? Dude, there's nothing between us. How is this possible? Nothing to mention about that. Dude, existence cannot longer be denied. Dylan Borland. It's an honor and a long time coming to have you here. You testified before Congress in September of 2025 and I remember tuning in from abroad. I was with my buddy Chris Ramsey actually in Spain and I felt like I don't ever want to go to one of these congressional hearings again. I think it's a total dog and pony show. I honestly thought nothing interesting was coming down the pike and then I remember listening and actually watching on C-SPAN your testimony. My name is Dylan Borland, a former one-in-one geospatial intelligence specialist for the United States Air Force. During the summer of 2012, my team was on standby for weather and I returned to my barracks on base and at approximately 0130, I saw an approximately 100-foot equilateral triangle take off from near the NASA hangar on the base. And being like, this is wild. This guy seems extremely earnest and authentic. Not only has he had first hand sighting, but he seems to know a lot more about UFO crash retrieval in reverse engineering programs than meets the eye. And you experience all sorts of reprisals, administrative terrorism. And so that story is really wild. The ontological truth below it is wild too and I'm really excited to have you here. First off, what are you wearing? A wonderful shirt. I go on eBay. I try to tell my friends and loved ones. I love puzzles. So I love video games and puzzles. And you know, after OD and I committed a felony against the whistleblowers, I decided to go and pick up a couple t-shirts. What does OD and I stand for for? Office of Director of National Intelligence. Director's initiative group, The Dig, which Senate had a hearing with James Irman III. And it was supposed to be under Tulsi to get into what the government did and has been hiding all these years. And I believe the OD and I started in 2006 and it was meant to oversee all the intel agencies. And so, you know, CIA, Office of Naval Intelligence, all of that fits within the purview of OD and I, which was supposed to sort of organize them all, oversee them. So little known thing, OD and I supposed to be the chief boss. CIA doesn't really like to play ball with them. And even James Irman, who testified under Senate recently about everything they did to whistleblowers for AHI COVID and UFOs, CIA does their own thing. Legally and by the law, technically, OD and I is above them. But here we are, alas. So yeah, you are correct, though. 9/11, George Bush, the DHS Act, all that was created to get that under control. And the CIA continues to do what they do. And I want to be careful here because I don't want to get you into trouble. So I'll say that somebody from the OD and I said to Jeremy Corbell, the program name of possibly some UFO reverse engineering program was called if you remove your hands. I love Puzzles. I love Puzzles. So I'm not saying that anything came from you, but that was their statement to him. I was told by an OD and I agent. That Dylan testified to ICIG, the police of the intelligence agencies, that there is a UFO program. And it's called Rubik's Cube. That's what he said. That's what I heard from the OD and I, which they shouldn't be calling me and telling me what was described in a skiff. Am I correct about that? That's what you heard. Jeremy and George, I cannot confirm or deny anything. What I will say is, Jeremy and George are sweethearts. I love them. They are incredible friends. I consider them family. They are well informed. If Jeremy and George as legal reporters in the United States doing their legal job to inform the public are saying that our country committed crimes, disclosing whistleblower testimony to a journalist. Take it for what it's worth. They did it. Yeah, I mean, that's a serious accusation to claim that the most important, at least structurally intelligent agency is doing that. It's a very big and bold thing. 100% and then you get into a real fun stuff, which is why we're here today. For everybody covering this up, how are you going to argue in national security when you're disclosing hypothetical classified information to journalists, which would be classified under national security? You can't claim we got to hide this while simultaneously disclosing classified to journalists. Doesn't make sense in my opinion. No, it makes no sense. As does it not make sense to accuse whistleblowers who you weren't even on the program directly of treason for essentially letting stuff out due to literally a personal experience where you happen to be on Langley Air Force Base, but you experience something. Then people assumed you were part of the program, so they told you a bunch of stuff. You can't go after somebody like yourself. Now we get into these crazy situations. I mean, for me, Jesse, it goes back to what I've been adamant about and shout out to Dave and everybody else. We talked about it. Dave is busting his butt. Dave grouch. His arms will tie behind his back, and everybody is just trying to get this done. When we talk about retaliation and bumping into programs, you talk into WooSapps, and WooSapp is a waived program. You hide them within special access programs. That's how you hide money. Hypothetically, I may be doing special operations for drones, hypothetically. Within there are people who are right in, and you have certain SOPs and TTPs, but more importantly, you have capabilities that are not allowed to be known to anybody outside of the people read in. You can be working next to somebody who is right in and doing that job, and somebody may be working recoveries right next to you and you don't know it. That might be how more or less somebody may be believed to be read in. Let's back up. I want to set the table for people who are less familiar with your story, because we just went off the deep end there. Where are you from originally? I was born in Washington, DC. My dad and my mom met in Pittsburgh, P.I. Got married, had me. We moved to DC. My dad actually worked for the U.S. government, he did all the museums. So he actually, if you ever go to DC, if you see the Constitution, he helped to set that up. So if you go in there, you see the Constitution. He lived in Palm Springs. We did a lot of Native American museums. He lived up in Baker City, Oregon, and did the Oregon Trail Museum up there. So been around the block, but more or less you could say I'm from Pittsburgh. - Yep, and Pittsburgh has an interesting relationship with UFOs historically, right? - Yeah, we talked about this last night, my man. And that was a delicious burger, by the way. - There you go. - Um, best in Austin. - You know, this is out there, and I've been trying to edge people into it. That is research lab up in Pittsburgh, and they were the first people to develop nuclear power for the Navy. And that was in the 50s, and you get into Kecksburg and all the UFO sightings in the Western P.A. region. At one point in time, they were tasked to develop the nuclear satellites for space, and the contract conveniently ended. But as of right now, that is still exists, and they're still doing it, yeah. - Interesting. - Yeah, Kecksburg is around there, and I believe, what do they call it, the triangle? - So we talked about this too. So it's called the like I-81 corridor. So an unsold mystery, shout out to Michael Schumer. You just did that interview. - Yeah. - Michael Schumer has been on unsold mysteries, and between North Folk Langley Air Force Base west towards Winchester, I forget what that city is down there, but north on I-81, all the way to Harrisburg P.I. And then back down through DC, back down towards Pax River. It's called the I-81 corridor, and they had historically UFO flaps. I had to call them that for years, decades. If you go in a new fork, new fork, you can actually see all of it, and then this goes back to the first CIA director, and him being involved in all this, it's pretty well known historically. - Yeah, which CIA director are you thinking of Roscoe, Hilling Cotor? - I think so. - Yeah. - It was the very first one. He was a Navy admiral, and he retired with the CIA. He was a first CIA director, Navy admiral, and he was on the board of directors for New Folk. - Yeah, I'm terrible with that. - No, yeah, that was Hilling Cotor, 'cause he was actually a classmate of Donald Keyho, who formed nightcap, and then they joined together. And Hilling Cotor, it's so interesting, because I think he was frustrated at not getting the proper information about Roswell. So you think of like the first CIA director, and I think he's even supposedly one of the majestic 12 or whatever who was briefed on this, and then under Truman, but then supposedly he was actually really complaining to Army counter-intel saying, actually I don't know as much as I should about these topics, so that's great. It is, and then you get into the 1947 National Security Act with creating the Air Force, the CIA, the National Security Council, which you and I discuss, which is how much was majestic 12 tied into National Security Council? Yeah, man, I mean, I think the irony is, is you, Jeremy, George, Gerb, everybody is unpacking this. And the history is there, and Dave set a foundation publicly, and all of us are coming out, and we're supporting what has been done for decades. Yeah, and I am of the opinion that 95% of it's out there, it's just you guys put it together. Yeah, no, that feels right. It feels like it's just hidden in plain sight, and it's all open source, and it's just, can you piece it together? And it feels like a lot of people are piecing it together, but it's on these sort of, it's this rag tag team of vigilante, like YouTubers and stuff. And so it's not taken as seriously as somebody can do it, an extremely deep dive on the legacy program, it's structure like UAP Gerb. And so he'll go extremely deep, and he'll give you the structures. He'll talk about how federally funded research and development centers interact with special access programs, how they have subject matter experts that oversee these like carve outs, the saps of these prime contractors and stuff. And he'll do a three hour video, and he'll do many of these videos, and then you have Neil DeGrasse Tyson, who's this high priest of science, and he'll just say one thing like, well, after 50 years of whistleblowers coming out, he'll be like, after the last 10 years, it really seems like maybe I should start to take this seriously, and the whole consensus just shifts, but nobody pays attention to people like UAP Gerb, it doesn't make sense to me, but. - Yeah, I mean, I shower Gerb, love 'em man, he's awesome. He is knee deep into Ocent, and he knows his stuff. - Oh yeah. - You know, you talk about Tyson, it's funny that here we are, and you know what he was like three years ago, and now here we are. I mean, Dr. Phil, you know. - Dr. Phil, yeah. - But unironically, like you brought Kex, we were talking about Kexford, we were talking about yesterday, right now, we're one day past the Kexford anniversary for the party up there. - Yeah. - Things are coming together, and like we talked about, I think the next 10 years are gonna be real interesting. - I think so too, and we'll get into that. But so what were you doing in the government initially? - So I went to college for my undergrad in criminal justice, PolySci out of IUP. I wanted to be a military officer, like I told Jeremy, weaponized interview, same old stuff. I did Army National Guard ROTC, didn't, I wanna go active duty, and I always wanna be Air Force. Why'd you wanna do that? - It was in me, man. I remember being a little kid with my sister. For those of you who know Pittsburgh, especially the South Hills, there's a place called Cassidy Village. I'm a kind of docks myself, but it's a little strip mall in the South Hills, and they have a Air Force recruiter station. And I remember that while I was there, they had one of the old school like 1950s posters, and it was a young kid with his sister, and they had a dog, and it was at the Air Force recruiter station, Marines, all of it. And I remember seeing that poster, and it was like, I really wanna serve the Air Force. One of my grandfather's is retired, or not retired. He serves an Army counter intel for Panama, the other one served in the Navy, and my dad's a Navy vet. - What'd your dad do in the Navy? - He actually was on aircraft carriers, landing and taking off jets. - Well. - And it messed him up. - Really? - Yeah. - So, uh, accidents, and then just working 18, 20 hours at a time, you know, it takes a toll on you. - Do you think he ever experienced anything with you at those? - No, I talked with him about it. I mean, he's the same when I was telling you about it, who did all the museums and stuff. He ended up with national archives, and then when I talked about it, he, uh, when I testified, that's when I think things clicked for him with like, oh damn, like what the hell did my son get into? - Yeah. - But no, he never talked about it. He was mainly like typical military trauma and bias. - Yeah. - So, yeah. - Interesting. - Yeah. - But he was on a nuclear aircraft area, landing and taking off jets out there in the middle of nowhere in the oceans and, yeah. - So you wanted to be in the Air Force, and then where did you end up? 'Cause I think you ended up in a very interesting position that is kind of unique to our modern warfare paradigm. - I would agree, um, I ended up. So I took my FOQT, I wanna be an officer, I could have gone in officer position. The Marines gave me one, but they made me wait three years and I was homeless. So, you know, my ASFAB, I don't wanna say it was like a 96 and 97, which not to brag, like that was actually lower. Like I knew high school kids that, like an ASAT shit. But, uh, because I'm a college degree, and I got my 90s, they were like, "Hey, you have any job you want?" I took the, uh, linguist test. I forgot it was a D lab, that's it. So anyway, I was like, "Look, I know I want to work for the government, I want to help people, I want to protect people." And I, everything I did was intel, and then number one was OSI. I wanted to be an FBI agent. Like I wanted to be a pilot and an FBI agent. That is what I wanted from a kid ever since I saw that poster you brought up, and what we were talking about. Um, so everything I did was intel, and, uh, I go through all the vision tests, and everything, you go through maps, and, uh, they're like, "Hey, you can leave in three weeks, not be homeless, and we'll give you imagery as an enlisted Air Force Airman." So I was like, "Sounds great, let's go." And then I got in there, and I didn't realize that a one-in-one imagery analyst was ISR. So basically, I got thrown into the drone program. So, mandin' a mand aerial vehicle, satellites, imagery, you know, we got into the drone program, touches on so much human-sigant, all of it. Uh, got thrown into that world with special forces, special operations. - What years? - What was this? - So, I enlisted in 2010. I was medically discharged in 2013, um, 2010 to 2013. - So this was when drone strikes really ramped up. - Oh, it was crazy. - Yeah. I remember some of my buddies I still talk to today, remember it under Bush, then we transformed into Obama, and I can't get into details, but I was there for the tail end for the other drone program. Yeah. And notoriously, people know that drone operators who kill an enemy combatants actually suffer from a lot of PTSD, sometimes more. Because they're aware of the kind of dissociation. They're aware that all of this is being turned into some sort of video game. And so it messes with them more. and I can imagine being an image analyst. your role was to say, yes, that is the correct target. You know, you can strike, move forward. That's a really tough position to be into. Yeah, I, you know, I talk with a lot of my imagery buddies. Um, I need to be careful with how we get into this. But uh, I don't think anybody leaves that world without having it be a part of them, especially on the more problematic side. Good what I'm saying. Yeah. Um, you know, I, uh, I told his story on weaponized. Um, at one point in time, the drone program was worse for suicide than anybody else in the military. There's actually something crazy about this is, so when I left the air force a couple, my friends were at the locations where we do this, I want to be real careful. If I was like, if you remember my weaponized interview, when we're talking about redacted, every single special forces unit I probably worked with, Marsauk, Perra rescue, redacted seals, which is redacted. Everything I was redacted in there is unit names, uh, public unit names like, I'll say it now, DevGrew. Everybody knows who DevGrew is. I redacted that because I don't want to put the seals in that position straight up and that's fine now. It is what it is. Um, but when I left the air force, um, my buddies at the locations, there are specific locations where this is done. They were calling me up and they're like, yo, we had a suicide stand down in the iron. He is, we were still working while we had the other units stand down for drone issues and we're still working, but there was a military stand down for it. I'm not making fun of them, but it's such a crazy world because it is a non-stop go, go, go, go, go. And, you know, we support special forces. So we're supporting everyone in special forces. So there is no time down. Yeah. So it's like everybody just kind of takes a breather, but you're always having somebody go at it, and it's, it's wild, man. I feel like it's like a, uh, a double whammy as far as PTSD goes because you have the kind of the separation dissociation and maybe even like survivors guilt or like special forces. They're like in there. They obviously have skin in the game. They could easily get taken out. And so it's like you're, you have this like what seems like this drudgery of this nine to five, but you have this asymmetric advantage and you can just take out targets on command. And I can only imagine that that, but you're also in the subordinate position where you're just, you're serving your country. You're doing your job. You signed up as a patriotic American to, you know, defend the country and to take out, you know, I'm sure in certain cases, very bad people, you know, terrorists and stuff. But in other cases, I'm sure there were edge cases that you didn't agree with and you can't do anything about that. No. And that's shitty. Yeah. It sucks, man. And I think all of us who come out of that world have that feeling. You know, I'll tell you a story. Well, when I was doing that, my dad came to visit. He's a Navy vet. And he was actually stationed at Norfolk. And he came to visit me and we were hanging out and some stuff went down. And he won Starbucks. I went to a coffee. So I was like, dude, I'll go chill with you. And I remember some really wicked stuff went down that weekend. And I'll never forget I just got off of the four day Panama shift. And I'm with my dad down there at Langley, Hampton Roads. And I'm in line. He's grabbing his coffee. And I'm sitting there thinking in line while I was eating a coffee, everything I know that I just did for the last four days. And it's like, what the hell is this? It's a weird thing, man, because you have to, you have to be able, it's almost like disassociation. You have to be able to immediately trigger it to turn it on and go. And then once you walk out the door, turn it off because it will mess your life up. I can only, yeah, you have to I'm sure keep it super compartmentalized. And like we talked about yesterday going back to whistleblowers and experiences. You know, I don't know how Dave does. I don't know how any of us do it. We're just surviving. Like you're trying to figure out a way to turn this off, knowing that the reality of this is happening. Yeah. And then this goes back to a org. Like how do you do this? And that's what we're all trying to figure out. Well, when I look at the eyes of David Grush, the eyes of Jake Barber, you know, I look you in the eyes too. You, you, you have this like, I've seen some shit. Look, you do. No, seriously, like unless there's some, you know, troop of actor training or whatever inside the government where they're like, you know, teaching people Marlon Brando levels of, you know, Oscar winning, you know, then, then, then, then like all these guys are coming out and they look like they've seen some really traumatic shit, sticking with the, you know, your role as an image analyst for the drone operation. I'm sure there were times too when, you know, there was collateral damage and there were casualties incurred. I, where you're just taking orders. I will be very careful there. I think as well documented for all those years, I may or may not have done this for a living. How many people were collateral damage. And I think about it every day. And it breaks my heart. Well, I'm sorry, man. I mean, you just so you know, you were, you were serving the country and you were, you were doing your job. And so, you know, that's, it's not your fault. Like, I appreciate just saying I love you, man. Big hugs. Love you too, man. Love you too. Yeah, I wish we were in in this spaceship. But here we are. Trippy. It is trippy. It is trippy. We're in that SS Enterprise. Okay. So that was your role. Take me back to Langley Air Force Base 2012. What exactly did you see? Yeah, man. I mean, whenever this was weaponized, shout out, Jeremy and George, you know, we were on, so same old shit. On Panama schedule, you're on call. You're doing 12 hours shift work. When weather was down overseas, can't get into specifics. But if we can't fly planes and craft or grab satellite imagery, you know, you send people home on split shift and you're on call. So I live on base. And I always said like, look, man, I don't have a family. I'm living by myself on barracks. Y'all go home to your kids. At least you got a couple hours with them. So one o'clock in the morning rolls around, drive across the base from Langley, pass a NASA hangar, pass a runway, go back to my barracks. I change, usually smoke cigarettes, maybe grab a beer, chill out, play some border lands or some grand theft auto, whatever. Go out to the gazebo. I spoke to cigarette. I'm on the phone with my buddy. He was a federal officer at 1811 position, FYI. I mean, behind the scenes, this goes back years. Everybody knows all of these things in the world where I testify to, but outside smoking a cigarette on the phone, BSN. And I see a light pop up near the NASA hangar. You know, I think we'll fill in some stuff on the weaponized interview. A lot of the redacted stuff, like I said, was protecting individual units, locations and things I know that were tested. So I'll say it. The first redaction was about weather balloons. I have seen weather balloons be tested from that NASA hangar. I believe in natural security. I love the nation. I believe in protecting the nation and protecting the people who serve and die for it. So I see this light pop up from the NASA hangar, 132 AM, you know, around there. And literally I thought it was a weather balloon. And I see a pop up, smoking a cigarette on the phone, like, oh, that's wild. Clearly at this time of night in the middle of the week, you're testing something fun. I don't think anything of it began walking up. So at night, like, you guys know me at this point. Most people know me. I have a thing where I walk, I pace, I'm like, I gotta be doing something. I've always been that way. So I see this. I start walking up the street to the main street to go walk around the track. And I had an old MP3 player. It had like 12 songs on it. In fact, one of the Nas songs was on there, my man. So I'm walking up there. I walk up to the main street up towards the gym and the Jag office. And as I'm walking up, the light that I see had popped up from the NASA hangar. And the light starts to fly to me across the base. And as it flies to me, a triangle manifests around it. You know, to be clear, I am very, very, very adamant about what are the facts. I can't tell you if it's active camouflage. I cannot tell you if it manifests around it. I can't tell you if the light created some crazy wormhole. I can't tell what I know is it was a white light that became a triangle flew to me. There's some other stuff that I don't want to get into that is well known in the IC that it did while it happened. But it flew to me and stopped a hundred feet in front of me a hundred feet above me. And most beautiful piece of technology I've ever seen. Static electricity, smelled like a lightning storm. Shot off my cell phone, Red Hot, which is an indicator of things within the ISR world that you know what's happening. Crazy. And so it's a hundred feet above you. Describe the color, the dimensions of this craft. So, uh, approximately in my official arrow on the far that was classified, I described it between 100 and 150. at the foot equal lateral triangle. There were lights on each corner. There was a center light two to three times larger in the center. It's a black metallic flake paint. I'm looking at it and I can see the edges. So it was flat on the bottom, two to three times center light. Black metallic flake paint. I can feel the stack electricity, the phone's turned off. And so like the edges are 90 degrees that come up and then I never saw the top of it. So like from the bottom to the corners, it was 90 degrees. Who knows what the top of it looked like. But the big one was the outside pulsated move like a lava lamp. It had like this goldish transparent flow around it where the whole craft was, I don't want to call it moving, but it was moving. There was like take a lava lamp, put it on black metallic flake paint, and have the lava lamp flow around it. And it was just sitting there with pulsate. Like I could see the intensity on this gold, on this craft pulsating as it flowed around the craft. Is there for like two, three minutes or so? And then all of a sudden the center light flashed. That thing shot up, as I said, my opinion is commercial jet level. And then it got up there. It looked like a satellite. Sat there for a minute. I finally reset my phone. And it just went right over the Atlantic Ocean. You said you reset your phone. What happened to your phone? So I was on the phone with my buddy, 1811 position for the government, which is a federal officer licensed, badge carrying, gun carrying, federal officer. I don't want to give his information out. But the phone got hot. My phone call ended. Battery was drained. I was trying to reset it. Well, I want to get a picture of it. I was like, dude, no one's going to believe this. And once it got up to elevation, so I was trying to reset it. Well, I wanted the picture. And I finally reset the phone. Once it got to elevation, it looked like a star. I remember I was trying to take a picture of it. And this is 2012. I think I had like a Samsung 12 or a Samsung 11 or something. So it turned your phone off. No, so it froze it. I couldn't even turn the phone off. While I was within that distance of me, the phone was so hot, I couldn't reset it. Like the phone couldn't reset. It was completely shut down. Did it say due to heat or something? There was a heat warning on it. Yeah, there was, but like, you know, you hit the power button to like volume down or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, it wouldn't turn off. Were you feeling hot? Was your body? No, I just had a stack of electricity at that time. Once it got up to elevation, once the center light flashed, I could smell that rainstorm. And then once it got up to elevation, and I smelled it, it kind of calmed down, looking out, sitting up there. And then that's when the phone cooled down, I was able to reset it. How fast did it move? And obviously you're estimating. But how fast did it go? From 100 feet above you, did it commercial? It's reliable. I have testified to this under oath within seconds between 100 feet off the ground approximately to at minimum 30,000 commercial jet elevation two to three seconds. What would that make it as far as, you know, how fast it? You know, the whole fine of it is fine. Go from ground level of 30,000 feet in two seconds. It's pretty, yeah. Have you done the calculation? No, I have not. Well, I mean, if you're going from ground level of 30,000 feet in two seconds at 15,000 feet per second, from stationary to-- Yep, so let's call it two. If you do three, that's 10,000 feet per second. OK. So-- Yeah. Seconds, man. Seconds. That thing flashed and that thing was gone. So wild. It's beautiful, man. When you saw the light turn into the triangle, did it go-- and did the light just kind of instantly turn into the triangle? Or was the light slowly approaching and you realized that you saw it as a light because it had this sort of, you know, plasma sheath gold lava thing around it? This is where-- again, this is why I'm trying to make sense. When Jeremy said Dylan's looking for answers in the interview, that is what I'm looking for. I got a lot of questions I know truths on. When it flew to me, the best way to describe it is that light flew to me. And the white light was the center light and the triangle manifested or decloaked around it. Mm. So for me, it was like that plasma sheath. I watched-- I watched a triangle form around the light as a center light. Mm. Why do you think it flew straight to you? One of the main reasons I'm able to go multiple hours on these podcasts while staying mentally sharp is because of this little drink. It's a product I started using years ago and it's called Keytone IQ. 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That's ketone.com/alchemy for a whole 30% off. Or find ketone IQ at TargetStore's nationwide and get your first shot free. One of my many questions I want to answer so-- I remember when I was interviewing David Grush. He was allowed to talk about this even though it wasn't cleared through Dopser because it was like an informal friend testimony or something. But he mentioned a huge 300-foot triangle that somebody saw on their way to work. He was going to work at a certain facility in the morning-- not drunk, not high-- and a 300-foot triangular craft hovered over his car for a couple minutes. And all the zenith, upper-facing decks of his car were all hit with ionizing radiation ultraviolet because the paint became milky. And so is this-- how common is this? Is this-- I don't know. I have it all the time. If I'm right and what you're talking about, I believe that guy was at Norfolk, Virginia. That might be the one at Norfolk, which, interestingly, is within a couple of years of when I saw mine at Langway. Interesting. Interesting for you. Fascinating. OK. And so the buddy that you were on the phone with, I'm assuming he's anonymous? Oh, yeah. OK. Would he back you up privately and say, yeah, I was on the phone with Dylan. The phone shut off. We spoke about it right after. He told me about this experience. I'm sure he would. But again, this gets into issues with doctors and bosses. How many people, police officers? How many people really want to throw themselves to the wolves of social media? Get harassed? Of course. Of course. I'm just saying, do you still have a good relationship with him? And to you, he's like, yeah, I remember that time in 2012. Hey, man, I'm 39. I mean, you know you get older. I got friends. I haven't talked to him in five years. We call up and we're laughing. I'm sure if I call him, I was like, yo, man, you remember this? He'd be like, yeah, I remember. I was like off the record. If you want to say like, yeah, you were on the phone with me. He'd be like, yeah, I'll do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha. What do you think this lava, like, sort of undulating light was around the craft? So thankfully, you asked that. And thank God I don't officially know. I think that it is some way to ionize the atmosphere around a craft with a power source. And it's electromagnetic, probably nuclear. But again, this is hypothetical. I think that what that is is charging the craft positive negatives to ionize the atmosphere around the two control speed travel direction, that's my opinion. What's so fascinating is, I think the most vital version of anti-gravity that the US looked into involves negative and positive electrodes being charged with megavolt range electricity, which would ionize the air around it. A lot of these experiments, which were being conducted by Thomas Townsend Brown, ionized the air around it. And so you end up with these sort of charged particles, basically plasma, and then they recombine with air or O2, you get O3, three oxygen molecules. And that's literally what you described. It's this thunderstorm effect. I'm glad you said it, because again, you get into the new gritty. I love you and Gerb and Jeremy and George, and everybody's studying this. What you just said is more than I know, based off of my own testimony, I believe you. I mean, it makes sense to me. Again, I can only understand what I know, and what I've witnessed, and what I've seen, and what I've testified to. Everything you said. makes perfect sense to me in my limited understanding from witnessing it and studying it. So that makes sense. And the object didn't fly towards a base. It flew over the ocean. And then did it descend down? Never saw it. So once I saw come from the hangar, the white light, it flew to me. The triangle manifested, decloved, insert. However, it came to be. The light became the triangle. Got up to elevation, stopped, looked like a satellite. And then it went dewey south over the ocean. And I lost it as it slowly moved east out over the Atlantic. Do you think it came out of the NASA hangar, this craft? I don't know. I don't. But it could have. I mean, that NASA hangar is huge. That's a big NASA hangar. And being where I live and working with C-17s, you know, I know a big hangar when I see it, but I don't know. Do you think NASA houses exotic reverse engineered UFOs? Well, here's a funny one for you. This is a good question. And this is public knowledge. And I'm sure when this comes, people are going to go dig into this. If you go to Langley Air Force Base and you look at NASA and you look at Google, you can start clicking all the buildings that are tagged. And interestingly enough, a lot of those buildings have people that work there that are tagging like puzzles and hieroglyphs and rocks and formations. But again, maybe it's just people that work there are trolling, but you can look it up on your phone right now. They are tagging puzzles and hieroglyphs. It's like, it's like labyrinths and they're showing pictures of pyramids and they're showing pictures of hieroglyphs and rock formations. And Google Earth. Yeah, you can pull it up right now. Why would they be doing that? Hellifying. No, do, but they did it because I was laughing when all this stuff went down. Oh, this screenshot. This connects with, again, this is ODNI talking to Jeremy Corbella journalist. Apparently, I'm not even saying, you know, this is me hearing this in your interview with him. And he said that Rubik's Cube is this program name that freaks them out. So puzzles, that's where my mind goes. And then he also said that you drew pictures for the ODNI. One of those pictures was a hieroglyph. So you're saying that this area where you saw the UFOs being tagged with all the UFO-related knowledge that you seem to have. What I am saying is that if you go into Google Earth, as of right now, while we talk about this, there are people on Google Earth where if you pull it up or not Google Earth. But you're saying that they work there. Oh, yeah, they work there. If you pull up Google Maps, you can see it. You can go and track them down LinkedIn. See, here's a problem. So it's not random trollers. It's not literally people who work there are tagging people where you saw the UFO people at least on that section of the base are tagging like random labyrinths and random buildings. And they're showing pictures of ancient archaeology and random stuff. And you can go and pull up their record on LinkedIn. And they clearly worked there. And there's just a random picture of a labyrinths connected to some random hanger at the NASA facility at Langley. That is so crazy. In Langley, people think of Langley as synonymous with CIA. This is Langley, Virginia. Langley Air Force Base. So where is Langley Air Force Base with respect? Right next to Norfolk. Like right across the bridge of Tunnel at Norfolk. So is it is that in Langley, Virginia? Well, see, here's a problem is when people talk Langley, they think CIA, Langley Air Force Base is Langley, Virginia as well. Hampton Roads, Norfolk, that whole area. However, what's interesting is you bring up the NASA angle. The reason why NASA exists is because back when we had the trips to the moon, that is where we were developing that technology to go to the moon. NASA's development to get up into space and everything pressurization was done at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia. Wow. I still can't get over. We're going to look this up right after this. So there are employees there who are tagging puzzles, labyrinths, ancient archaeology. It's pictures and it's just random, weird stuff of like pyramids, labyrinths, puzzles. And it's just like, Oh, click this facility. Know how when you look at Google Maps, you'll see like posts. People had just random pictures of this random stuff there. And you're going to look them up on LinkedIn. It's like with that, you're a PhD in electrical engineering. Why are you tagging this and posting this on this facility at NASA Langley? Well, that seems like if that's the level of operational security, you know, they've evolved into program. They shouldn't be going after you. You weren't even like, you know, on the program. Well, like, that's insane. That's not to be fair, Justin, we talked about this too. I mean, what joke is this when OD and I starting whistleblowers and falsifying evidence for treason and espionage and then committing a felony and leaking to the journalists? Like, what are we talking about anymore? That's so crazy. I mean, the other really interesting thing about all of this is you have this guy Jim Lakatsky who is this, you know, longtime DIA rocket scientist who's in skinwalkers at the Pentagon. He was clearly involved in all SAP, this program between 2007 and 2012. And on weaponized with Jeremy Corbellan, George Napp, he's saying that he breached the whole of a UFO craft. You're telling us, you told us because you were allowed to tell us that our government has a UFO in its possession and has been able to access the inside of it, right? Yes. Which is wild that he's saying this and he's publishing this in his book and he's saying I can only say that. I can't say more. But what's really interesting is if you read his book, new insights, and I think his other book as well, he talks about UFOs as puzzles, as like, almost consciousness puzzles. It's as if the byproduct is, you know, either ancillary technology that we even have the framework to be able to create. So maybe you end up with fiber optics, but the original use for the thing was like way too complicated for us to ever even, you know, surmise what it was used for. But it's almost like it's meant to fuck with us a little bit. Like we look at the, we look at this saucer in a hanger and we're like, oh, we have no idea how this could ever be built. And that explains these debates, you know, with like Eric Weinstein, Eric Davis where Davis is like, we don't have physicists on this stuff. It wasn't a real physicist there. Nobody at the PhD level who is either an applied physicist or an or theoretical physicist. Because the physics frameworks we have are so, you know, they fall so short. I, you know, we talked about this last night too. I think, I think LeCatsky is probably my favorite old timer. Hate to say it. And I never talked to Jim. I would love to. I sent him peace and love. You know, I know he's popped up recently. Again, Davis did his interview. LeCatsky isn't a BS or flakatsky said it happened. It happened and hypothetically, I may or may not know some of the stuff he said is true. But like we talked about one of the things you got to remember is I know for a fact and most of us do know, which is our government will recruit people who are competent to understand the information, train them to do the job in the way they want them to back to physics. And we taught you, you know, where I'm going with this. But yeah, you're absolutely right. You know, but you're, I think you're making a point which is there wouldn't be physicists on the program. You might want electrical engineers or just generally high IQ competent people because you can retrain them with, you know, and then hypothetically, if you understand the physics, then it doesn't matter what the physics is. Now, it comes down to a matter of reverse engineering. Yes. And then I struggle with, I don't think that they understand the physics. That would be my guess. But I don't. I'm completely open. You, when I talk about I don't know completely open to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm completely open to it. Yeah. In 2023, Langley Air Force Base basically saw droning versions for 17 days. A new details are now emerging about mysterious drone activity over US military airspace. Air Force officials confirmed several unmanned drones flew over Langley Air Force Base in Virginia last December. The Pentagon is still not saying what officials think these things really are. Drone incursion. Yeah. Drone incursion. Basically UFO 17 consecutive nights, a swarm of unidentified drones infiltrated the restricted airspace over the base. So our one of our most sensitive air spaces. And, you know, as it doesn't or more drones were involved in the incursions, it was more than two weeks. The official response, the Pentagon publicly confirmed the incursions in October of 2024. And the spokeswoman said, we have no idea what this is. We haven't identified any of these things. And we have no defense against that. There is so much of that story because I know what they were targeting. Again, I was working for DITRA at that point. You know, people for DITRA is the defense threat reduction agency. It's all WMDs. So counter WMD, nuclear, biological, chemical. I'm an imagery guy. And you think DITRA ties in with the UFO legacy? Oh, of course. That goes all the way back to DOA. I mean, again, if people go through their history, things become clear. But again, where I was at was in DITRA, does it really have anything to do with it? Yeah, that whole drone-incursion thing, there's a lot more to it. There's a lot of imagery there. There's a lot of fun things there that I know exist. But if you think about, I'm going to say think, everybody who knows, knows, those drones were really targeting primarily NASA and then a very specific location on Langley Air Force Space because you all remember the NASA side of Langley is separate from Langley Air Force Space. There are two separate gates and there's a fence that guards it and there's patrols. But were they targeting because I believe they were stealth bombers there with possible gates, while here we go, this is going to be fun, one to think about. So the F-22 is a stealth aircraft. They were targeting the stealth aircraft and they were targeting NASA hangers. And then to me, the payload would be the more interesting thing if you're a UFO and this is me saying, I'm speculating this because I have data of around, again, 167 plus whistle blowers who are at nuclear sites all over the country coming from the sky, Robert Hastings. And even if you look at Nimitz, it's like a little known secret that tactical nukes are almost always on board, you know, these aircraft carriers. So nuclear is just this ubiquitous connection with UFOs. UFOs always show up around nuclear. We do. Yeah. We do. Okay. All right. Well, we can move on. You did say, you know, some interesting stuff that I know is there. And on Twitter, somebody said, we need 4K videos of UFO and we need NHF bodies. Okay. And then you said, you said I know it exists. Okay. Yeah. I know directly. I know directly that right now in our government, there is cell phone video ending the conversation about the triangles once and for all. And that is cell phone video. It's not even imagery, cell phone video within 100 feet of it. I know for a fact. And you know that we have high res imagery of you 100% because again, I know what I had and I know what was redacted from me because I wasn't right into the saps. As for the bodies, I want to be, I'm glad you brought this up. I want to be clear. This is where this gets into fun. I am sure these things exist. And during my whistle blower through arrow in the IG and Congress, like I said in weaponized, when people ask a question, when you understand why they're asking a question after we make a statement, but I believe Dave, I trust Dave. I know what I know. I know what I've been told. I know what I testified to and I know what came back as was confirmed. I know what arrow and hypothetically the IG have told me directly in skiffs, it absolutely exists. There's no doubt in my mind, none at all. And you're sure we have craft and hangers all over the country. I don't know about all over the country. I'm sure we have craft. Yeah, I'm sure they exist in a hangar somewhere underground, wherever they're at. But we have craft. But you know that they're not just these aerial objects that are ephemeral that we don't understand. You know that we have been studying them on the ground in isolated conditions. I'm sure of it. But again, this goes back again. This gets into the fun stuff we were talking about hypotheses, you know, if but it's not, that's not really a high pot, you're you're extremely I'm sure there are crafts that were not made by humanity at this current time and place when we recovered them. That is no doubt where they come from no idea. You know, this is one of the things that people always attack this subject. They want to lump me in with quote unquote aliens and little grays and all that. That's not the truth. I've never said extraterrestrials exist. I've never said we have proof of extraterrestrials, but non-human. We have we have craft that were not made by humanity at the time we recovered them. Major difference. We recovered things that weren't they were not made by us could be phoenix on them feature in the past. We talked about the hypothesis of a human soul and us going to another planet and we're watching ourselves. And these are more advanced than clearly 22, oh yeah, 35 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fascinating. Yeah. Okay, so, so wild, so you experience this and then what happens next? With the triangle. Yeah, with the triangle. I went back to the dorm room, spoke to cigarette and played borderlands or call it duty. I mean, I went back to work. I talked with a couple of my buddies and, you know, people heard me talking and I won't get into it, but they know who they are and I love them. And I talked with them a little bit after the hearing and they got real sketch out when I was like, yo, people want to talk about this. I can protect you. I'll bring you forward ghosted. But, you know, people would share with me their situations with these things. But that was really it. At that point, had you met anybody who claimed to work on the program directly? Not at all. Okay. But they were just when you say they're situations, they're citing. You know, it was so like, I had an excellent, I had an excellent tech sergeant. He was a prior load master, which I don't know if you know what that is. They're the guys who load up C-130, C-17s. Make sure the weights are good. Make sure everything's good there. He clearly knew what was going on. My tech sergeant was the one I was like, Dylan, don't talk about this ever again. You have no idea what you got yourself into. I ran into a security forces guy who was a raven, which is some Air Force stuff, but he was a raven and he was talking about a situation in North Dakota where a C-17 landed. They dropped off a box. It was this whole ordeal in the middle of the night. What was in the box? No idea. I was just told a C-17 landed. They were called in. They had a Surrounder hangar in North Dakota. They brought the box in. They were told, don't let anybody come here other than this general or anybody coming with this general. They were there for five, six hours, C-17 lands. Open up the hangar door. Throw it back in the C-17, a new one and off it goes. Again. To be clear, again, I am very factual based. Who knows? Maybe it was some Chinese stuff or Russian stuff, but we were talking about this while I was at Langley and people were just telling me odd things they experienced that were out of place. Yeah. Man, I just went back to the dorms, bags of barracks and chilled in. That was that. How'd you end up at BAE systems? It was BAE stand for. Another share space engineering ended up there, I finished my master's degree and my background and my education. They wanted me there. So I took the job, needed a work at, what was that, 20, 26, C-17, yeah. And you've called that kind of multi-agency role. I don't know if this is an example of a thing that you can say anything more about. We're going to fun. I, you know, my resume speaks for itself. I can say I work for BAE systems, you know, going back to OD and I in the BSA pulled. You know, if I can't talk about it, at least what I know, because again, I've never been through Dopser. I'm not approved. Like I am, you know, everybody knows. Going off script. I'm literally just out here existing, man. Kid. But, you know, I, I don't want to get into the agencies I work for because to the best of my knowledge without going through clearance to talk. The last I heard, I'm not allowed to talk about the agencies I work for. Can you say generically, you were working on special access program? Yes. 100%. Yep. And so you're working in this capacity and you run into other people that you think are on the UFO program directly. Yes. So I was working at BAE and I was talking about the triangle and other things I was aware of and somebody who worked for the government in a program knew what BAE was doing to me with my clearance and had heard about what I was doing. I worked with them and they heard about me talking about the triangle and they thought I was right into the program because they were. And that's when this began this whole thing. There were about two other people who were absolutely right in and that's when I came into knowledge about a very specific program. And okay. Interesting. Just look at your shirt. And yeah. Okay. It was a very specific program. So was this like an overarching umbrella legacy program, like a multi-generational crash retrieval and reverse engineering program or like an isolated thing? I want to be respectful. I mean, their accesses were pretty large in scale but their job was fairly large in scale. What you got to remember is historically, if you get run into a special access program, usually they allow you the backlog and they were able to backlog a lot of. of the historical stuff, and they had found out quite a bit. - Interesting, okay, so, oh man, my mind is jumping to all sorts of places. So it's like if you have a legacy UFO reverse engineering program and it's not in the digital age for many decades, a lot of knowledge is gonna get lost, a lot of taxonomies aren't gonna get created, and you're gonna need something in the modern day to kind of concatenate all of that knowledge to put it all in kind of a central database, find deeper patterns with some of these things. - Yeah, I wanna be careful here again 'cause I love this country, I love this country. I mean, this is what I said. Underwater, I said the Constitution's reddit. - Why I became a whistleblower is because I was concerned about people safety, not UFOs. I know what they did to me, I know what they did to others who were in this programs. I know how the read-ons worked, at least for them and others, I know where they went, I know all of that. But there is a, at least in their instance, a historical backlog that once they were read in, they went in began to dig into, and that's when those individuals began to get into trouble, yes. - Let's just talk instead about like the specifics here because I don't wanna get into trouble, kind of high level, how you think the UFO legacy program works because there are different narratives out there as to how it actually functions. So you think that these are physical craft and you do think there are bodies as well and freezers essentially. - I don't know about bodies and freezers, I know there's a genetics component to it. - You know there's a genetics component. What do you mean by that? - I know that there is, at some extent, Dave called it biologics, there is no doubt in my mind that there is something dealing with genetics. And, you know, I, again. - The Dave said specifically that they're pilots that are recovered with these UFOs. - And I do believe Dave and I wanna be very careful. You and I talked about this, you know. You know where my line is with my knowledge outside of government where I draw a line. - I think that is true. - I think personally I know it's true, but I'll leave it there. - You know, you get in a remote viewing and we're talking about midnight climax, MK Ultra, mocking birds. And we're talking about all those programs. It's almost like it's an umbrella program under ESP, six cents UFOs. It seems, in my opinion, knowing enough that I do know, officially from government and being a whistle blower, all of that is connected up under one umbrella. And Lakatsky and Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, all of that ties into it. I mean, they almost admit it. So MK Ultra, all of these, like off the books, programs all tie in together. - I think my, well, I'm sure a lot of them do, but again, looking at going back to what we talked to discuss with intent. - And so I think of those programs that you just mentioned as CIA programs. - Yeah, they are. - Yeah, so like the larger umbrella is CIA, and then there's like some, is there some department there? I mean, a lot of people named Glenn Gaffney who's the director of science and technology there as being one of the last leaders of the legacy program. Eric Davis said that he was the guy on my show. - Well, I would love to talk to the head of the crash retrieval program during that era but he refused to talk to us. - And that was, that was Glenn Gaffney. - Yeah, Glenn Gaffney. - Glenn Gaffney. - I think they're absolutely correct. And then you get into department of energy and we discuss this. So 2023, Dave testifies, I go to the ICIG, I'm my attorney. The following year, Congress signs into law, they get the president to sign it. And they say, "Hey, by the way, you need to redefine credible and urgent." And oh, by the way, whistleblowers going to the ICIG, if they disclose CIA secrets and department of energy secrets, they're not all be prosecuted for espionage. - So why is Congress creating a law saying that the following year from whistleblowers coming forward after Dave comes with 40 other witnesses, kind of coincidental, don't you think? - They are allowed to prosecute whistleblowers. - I believe, I believe that that is one of the arguments that was being made at the point in time, which is, well, even though they followed the law, you disclosed information to the attorney general outside of the control group and you violated the law. - You're getting the secret laws now. - You get into restricted data, the Atomic Energy Commission in 1954, Atomic Energy Act, where things are born secret. And if they have anything to do with, I think it's a transclassified nuclear material, you know, anything dealing with any of this stuff, then upon retrieving a thing or upon coming into any information, you know, that is already a state secret that you are. - Absolutely. - You have possession of. And so this idea would be that if you were to tell that to the IC Inspector General, the Intelligence Community Inspector General, who's kind of playing this judicial role within the intelligence community, then you'd be able to be prosecuted. - But this goes back to what we talked about earlier is technically DNI is supposed to oversee the CIA. That's not how it works. The CIA answers to the president. DNI answers to the intelligence community, which Congress has sort of oversight over. The Department of Energy is almost basically the same as the CIA. They answered whoever they want and they claim executive branch privilege. So whistleblower is going to the ICIG, disclosing executive branch classified inherent and born classified presents a problem. And that's why Congress had to create a legislation in 2024. Hypothetically. - Hypothetically. And hypothetically there are radar signatures that pick up UFOs and are they in a specific range hypothetically? - Hypothetically yes. (laughing) - Okay, interesting. And so you're finding out a lot at BAE systems and this is like water cooler talk or like how are you figuring this out? - I don't like it in specifics because I am so protective of people and I feel so bad for the people who were harmed by this. People who I love and I care about and have been through a great ordeal with me by themselves with me personally without me. When your job is taken from you you lose everything and you witness somebody else going through it and they're talking about things that you were brought into. It impacted them in a way. So this goes back to it like I said. My thing was when I heard that people's lives were in danger that's why I acted. - If I had never heard that, I would not be a whistleblower. Like the UFOs subject all of this is whatever. I know what I went through and I know what others went through and I do believe that. This is why Sullivan and Dave and everybody else Herrera the threats all of it mess me up. That's real. All of this is real. I don't wanna call it water cooler talk. It was like trauma bond. Does that make sense? - Sure. - Yeah. - So you're in a situation doing an insane job with insane accesses, with insane knowledge, watching other people get screwed by the government. - Yeah. - And it's like, who else are you talking to? And this goes back to Vanguard. This goes back to what matter trying to figure out. And even the experiencers, we're trying to help each other because we're all lost in the woods and I don't wanna call it an outcast. We can only rely on each other until this gets over the hump, you know? - I wanna get to Vanguard and ways for people to help and support. Before that, you and Jeremy talked about a power source with you when it comes to UFOs. - Jeremy asked me a question. I didn't talk about it. - Did you draw an image of a non-human intelligence? - Pyramid power source for the ODNI. - He said the power source. He went on my show and he talked about a pyramid structure. - Talking about a pyramid power source, we're talking about something that you could put in other stuff, I'm imagining that's how we would retrofit things. - Yes, that sort of gives off a definite energy and seems to almost like fry anything it interfaces with because it just kind of keeps going. - Yeah, I know, I'm familiar, I listen to it. - Okay, see what about it, buddy. - Okay, so plead the fifth on that one. - There's no plead the fifth. I heard it, hypothetically. - That's crazy. - If you have. - That's such a crazy thing. - Hypothetically, if you have an electromagnetic power source that probably operates off of nuclear principles and it gives off energy and you can't control the load. - But I think of a nuclear reaction as ending at some point. - I would assume so, but again, so this goes back to whatever of her discussions with Towns and Brown and we talked about it like the Model T and Ford versus a 2026 Ferrari. Henry, you're welcome. built some Model T and all of a sunny ends up at an army base and they're like oh this is awesome oh by the way check out what's in the garage and there's a 2026 Bluetooth Ferrari with fuel injectors in the rest of it um if we take a modern nuclear power source back to the 1700s can you control the load to get do you even know what the hell is happening right that's in my opinion hypothetically what's going on yeah that's so crazy it also touches on you know when I interviewed Louis Elizondo you know it's always hard to parse these things and he speaks so high level and there's always you know sort of code or whatever but it's like he was like talking about he was like you know the US has a toy and you know it's like it was like this weird like analogy of like you know you have all these other countries and we're all in the play pen together and if they play nice they get access to the toy you know what maybe we can find a way where the kids in the sandbox can play together right if you can't give them you can't break the toy in 12 pieces maybe you put it in the middle of the sandbox and rather than letting every child takes turns playing with it you make a game where all the kids play with it at once right and that's how you do it it seems to be maybe an analogy for like free energy or some like device that's like all powerful and then in my mind I'm like how real is this or is this classic you know the CIA for many years will play up capabilities they'll play down other capabilities so it's always this sort of game cat and mouse you're always trying to figure out yeah what's going on but maybe he was talking about this pure middle I you know I I love everybody I want nothing but the best I keep loving my heart I tell everybody I love him I love Lou Lou is a very highly intelligent man and he's super smart oh Lou is very intelligent yes Dave I think the vast majority of us in fact all of us are highly intelligent I would have to go and pick a part that interview I may do it when we get done with this to meet the interview I'm gonna pick that thing apart and I will know what Lou is talking about and I see talk and I will have many opinions but who's not dummy and lose book revealed so much that if people understand I see talk you can understand what's being said same as James Lakatsky's interview the third interview with Jeremy and George these book revealed a ton oh yeah it also if you read him in his book he talks about BAE systems as one of the companies that inherited you know UFO technology yeah he talks about locations he talks about locations that are very close to things that happened recently what locations does he talk about he talks about them so in his book well Jeremy said this I'm gonna quote Jeremy quoting lose book which was clear by dobser because I'm not going to jail because I'm free ball no no no you know packs river comes up quite a bit doesn't it it does so packs river is basically has all of the hangars for the most advanced naval aviation and it would be where in it I just had Eric Burleson on congressman from Missouri and he was like this looks like a place where you would transfer your UFO you might even hold the UFO I was able to actually be on site and see the facility that would have been that facility that they were going to transfer from Lockheed Martin to Bigelow airspace and if and I'll tell you just being there and seeing it if you were ever going to do a transfer it would be logistically the perfect venue to do that I was in lose book yeah yeah and then you got to remember to and then here's the problem is I'm trying to be so safe because I love this country I love national defense I want to put anybody in danger packs river strategically for a defense perspective if you have a golden dome hypothetically that's a really important place to have that's pretty far east you have access all on these coasts so you throw something on packs you throw something in south 40 through something up in Maine you can defend the east coast um but yeah yeah hypothetically hypothetically and then you you also have Salvatore Pais with his navy patents from 2018 coming out of packs river and basically everything that you would need to build a UFO from room temperature superconductivity to you know mass reducing device this thing that breaks the swing or limit but yeah he has he has all these patents that basically like how you would build a UFO well you got to love about pais and you and I talked about him and other things last night too I love the fact that we're getting into this right now but uh you know if you go into google patents they reference older patents to justify their current ones and what's interesting is if you get into some triangle patents and some other things you start to track down power sources and gravity control you end up back in the 50s with the Air Force and NASA and their referencing things that are like huh so like what from the 50s just uh it's been like two years since I read it yeah but they're talking about like gravity and uh well yeah that was the temperatures and all of it it was the the golden age of relativity then was what it was called and even you had braced a wit was writing about you know superconductivity and these rotating superconductors that would maybe create gravitational perturbations he was writing about this in the 50s you also had uh Stanley Deser and Richard Arnaut from Princeton writing about gravitons and that connects with Ning Lee's work in the early 2000s because she had this graviton model where you had AC superconductors rotating super quickly creating weight reduction for anything above it and you know it was this gravitational shielding mechanism and if you read James Lakatsky's book he talks about ceramic superconductors which are very similar to you know what Ning Lee was talking about so FYI thank you for sharing that because I listen to you in Gerb and I pay attention I always learn some new stuff about people and science when I listen to you and Gerb always throw some acronym I'm like oh what is that and then I find my rabbit hole down like oh I know about that um so thank you for sharing that but uh you know you get into a really rare place with País and well how much of that is a cover and how much of that is true yeah it's very it's very unclear and there are basic when I run those patents by conventional physicists they usually say this is extremely intriguing but they're like checkmate in one ways to you know debunk this stuff it doesn't really make any sense on the face of it so there's either something deeper going on and he has something vital he's not you know saying or it's you know deflecting or trying to throw people off the trail it's unclear yeah and he there was a place where I got to in my interview with him where he was like Jesse go no further or whatever we were talking about uh the fifth dimension uh where electromagnetism might connect with gravity let's get a little so as you hit the Schroinger limit break space time what happens vis-a-vis this fifth dimension well not okay well not touch on that leave it there Jesse trust me on that leave it there so that might connect with this guy Ferris Williams who had this uh 5D dynamical model and he was so oaky Shannon who was this I know I know I know you know yes yeah so he's this uh lost Los Alamos project manager who is involved in this advanced theoretical physics group with how put off and a bunch of people in the 80s and 90s and they were kind of open source trying to study you know what how UFOs work and he was like the closest guy who had like a theoretical model for describing this was um this guy Ferris Williams spelled with a p what's this five dimensional theory appears to do it's tied together to electromagnetism with gravity right if you do that if you can take advantage of his expanded Maxwell equations then maybe you can build an anti-gravity device yeah I uh we're gonna have fun with this one so I'm gonna tiptoe this so I told you that in 2024 I had a large database saved of documents briefings private messages on classified on j-wix um and NSA came through and cleaned house and they basically shut down intel link and intel docs and uh we had to go get new justifications but uh oh Shannon was a massive conversation on the classified servers and uh I may have been participating upon that once upon a time really oh yeah so people thought maybe he was involved in real UFO legacy um I think people well this gets into the fun with a tip us app uap task force and the theory that a lot of that was red teaming the legacy program um and figuring out okay because these groups are so selective that I don't want to call a brain drain it's very group think so create a third party figure out what people can figure out with the internet and modern open source uh have it new theories come through and feed it back in you know what I mean like oh we're gonna reverse it feed it back in and let these people uh have some new ideas um so it was like let's create this faux oppositional force almost like a white hat hacker let's figure out vote vulnerabilities with the ufl legacy program where they're missing you know what they're missing on certain things bring in some outside civilian eyes with the diards from ASAP where you had civilian scientists writing about really exotic propulsion modalities and then it feeds back into the legacy program. Yes, and it's real fun because this goes back to ODNI and things I figured out after I went to the ICIG and I knew how to track down search and rescue ops because I did it for a living. I had to find fucking soft guys overseas, which is my language, sorry for the F-bomb. And I know a search and rescue tasker was imagery and sicken when I see it. And I know what is our guys and what isn't. And they were very interested in how I knew everything I knew, especially after I went to the ICIG and all the documents I had and imagery I had conventionally, most of the people I know believe that there is some element that all of that was getting fed back into the legacy to run cover, which is, hey, these guys figured it out not just on the inside classified, but on the outside. Here's what they're seeing feed it back in to adjust appropriately. Well, I look at the modern, you know, arrow director and it's a former NSA guy. And so I think about what maybe a cynical version of the modern push for disclosure would be and it would be like, let's get limited disclosure will increase the surface area of this stuff. You get a bunch of civilian scientists, people from the outside, newly interested in the topic. They're contributing all sorts of things. You have signals intelligence on all of this stuff. You can collate it and then you can search it. You can analyze it and all of a sudden, you know, you crowd source intelligence for the UFO legacy program, which remains intact, vital and newly immunized by the executive branch. Totally agreed. Yeah. That's tough. That's tough. And wherever you go, you know, people, you know, seem really iconoclastic and irreverent and then they're on the outside. And I think it's this really tough thing where you probably experienced this post blowing the whistle, post doing your first thing in this area. You get sort of softly surrounded by spooky people and then it's like, join this board and join this thing and then you turn into this like castrated version of your former self that was like really, you know, go about like true disclosure. I, you know, I for me personally, I've been very blessed and lucky, which is I've been very clear in this. I mean, this even goes back to OD and I. I told OD and I was like, look, I expect you guys to lie. What I want is I want answers for me. I want accountability. I want restitution for the whistleblowers. It's like, I don't give a damn what you guys do answer why you did what you did hold the people accountable. Don't let the doctors and the GS 14s and 15s do this anybody else and then make sure we can live our lives with our families. Luckily, I kind of encapsulated myself where I've been very closed off. And even when you and I first talked, you know, it's ever been an issue to get in touch with me. But again, I talked to with me, but what you said in my experience with everybody else is very true. Yeah. And that is very true. You get surrounded and it's even a concern now. Like I have friends who went to war with me against the CIA and DNI internally. Like when to war and said I can prove you're lying and did so. But you're absolutely right in that and now and then you get into the whole thing with like how they use this against you is like you bring it up. It's like, Oh, you're paranoid. Well, no, I'm not paranoid. Why are you coming at me saying all of a sudden like, Oh, join this board, join this group, come in. This is a meeting. It's like you never gave a damn until right now. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Intent my man. Intent. Totally. Well, I think intent translates over time. If you keep your intent, pure, that's the best sort of defense against getting sort of rolled into those sort of weird quasi, quasi disclosure, but quasi, you know, I don't know, just weird initiated. Yeah. There's a lot of those weird initiatives. It almost seems like private business and parts of the ICR really deep into remote viewing and what people know and experiences right now that that really seems like a big thing going on almost as if people are expecting something to come. Right. No, it's just speaking of expecting something to come. There's this constant talk in UFO disclosure world of some event happening in the mid 2020s. First, it was like 2026 then 2027. Now it might be 2034 and going back to actually that Lou Elizondo interview, I remember calling him out and saying, Look, I think you, it seems like you know a lot more than what you're saying about all these topics and you're holding a lot in clearly and he admitted that and he sort of got uncomfortable and he was like, time is not a luxury that we can afford. What is imminent? Time is not a luxury that we can afford. The time has come. We need to start having the conversation collectively. We should have had it a while ago, but we really need to, we really need to start having the conversation. And I would love for that to not be such an opaque statement. What does that mean and, you know, honestly, I tend to be skeptical of anybody saying, you know, here's a date, you know, something might happen by that date. But yeah, what do you think? Do you think that that might be? It also simultaneously, I'll defend that position and say, I can explain modern disclosure. Maybe it's how I just explained it and maybe they're cynically crowdsourcing some of this knowledge, but I can't explain it otherwise, because they've created monsters in the form of people like UAP Gurb and other people who are just open source researchers that they didn't anticipate. You're opening the whole pandora's box of everything we've discussed. So I am very fact based, which is I am looking what is provable, what I know is true behind closed doors. What is classified? It's why I keep telling people, you know, Dave, Matt, myself, Lou Stratton, look at her rare list, Barbara, it doesn't matter. If you went forward and put your name to paper and said, this is true, execute me. If it's not true, it's not up to us to go and commit felonies to disclose the classified to the public. The public should be asking the government to say, yo, did they lie as of right now? As far as I'm aware, not a single entity in the government has said any of us have lied, but the future and a future date and time is a luxury. So I have tipped out around this a lot and you and I talked about this. I think you know where I'm going with this, which is I think my best guess, I don't know for sure. This is my best guess. I think something happened in the mid 2000s that changed the game. I think something showed up that we were not tracking, maybe China had a breakthrough, maybe Russia had a breakthrough, maybe a third party made a big breakthrough. Maybe something came here that we just didn't know. I think that based off of the way the government, the military views, things knowing their tracking, aircraft carriers, nuclear sites, it's not just the US, it's everybody. Like this is a global issue. I think that it's not hard especially knowing the way the IC works and knowing their capabilities and what they have on their end to assess based off of the classified, especially in the special access programs, we're seeing an increase, we're seeing these locations, something is happening. And what upsets me is I'm not a threat narrative guy and we talked about this too. I hate to say it, but I'm going to go there. You know people talk about blue beam and the hypothetical false flag narrative. I don't think that's going to happen, but of course I have a concern with it because I know this subject is true, I know these craft exists, I know this is happening, I know what they did to me. In the last year, they falsified evidence for me to go and get a death penalty for treason. They threw espionage against everybody else. Dave is talking about him getting hit with espionage and they did that blatantly. They called up journalists and we're like, yo, we're falsifying evidence, we're going to throw this dude in jail and throw these other guys in there. I'm not saying it's going to happen. My issue is I am searching for the truth like everybody else. I happen to know some truths. I'm trying to figure out like you are and you and the rest of the people that watch this and the experiencers, all of us need to rely on each other and hold the government accountable. However, back to the future date. Luke is a very smart man. Luke is a very capable man and other people are very intelligent and capable and I think the general consensus is overall, at some point, there will be a tipping point no matter what. No idea the date, no idea what it is. The general consensus is you cannot keep this a secret and I don't know when that snaps. The other thing that it seems like ODNI and Aero maybe tried to use against you was this hieroglyphic thing that may or may not have been drawn that Jeremy again discussed where the hieroglyphics are a thing that show up on a lot of historical UFO crashes. You have Lonnie Zamora and 64. You have, you know, Roswell and 47, of course, you have a lot of these rumors. that you know, hieroglyphics are on the crack. I think Kecksburg in '65, all over hieroglyphics as well. - Yeah, well here we go again back to the way my brain works. So indigenous Americans hypothetically before Europeans came over and we became the society. If I took a Chinese or Japanese and Asian letter, that's a hieroglyph and I gave it to a name American, they would see it as a hieroglyph. - Now that doesn't mean it's extraterrestrial, it doesn't mean it's not human, it just means we don't understand it at the time it's happening. - Is there anything about this hypothetical hieroglyph that might hypothetically lead us to believe that this is a non-human in origin and not just some ancient tradition? - I want to take a moment to thank one of today's sponsors, Zbiotics, I've been using their pre-alcohol product for years and when the opportunity came up to work with them, I jumped at it because it's one of the few things I actually drink before a night out with friends when it's time to celebrate a special event and that little decision I make before I go out changes everything. Zbiotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. 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Is there anything about this hypothetical hieroglyph that might hypothetically lead us to believe that this is a non-human and origin and not just some ancient tradition? Oh, man. You're really putting me on the spot, Jesse. You don't have to answer. I believe the fifth. Very tough. Very tough. Yeah. Okay. BAE also is a really interesting history. You know, there's a guy named Dr. Ron Evans there who talked about something called Project Green Glow and he actually wrote a book about this. I'm familiar. So this is all new for me. Yeah. It's really wild. And he talked about how they studied anti-gravity for like 10 years and it was this big project. And maybe this is a cover, maybe this isn't, but he said that they figured out some interesting frameworks, but they kind of debunked everything. Yeah. I don't necessarily buy that. I mean, this goes back into America and you notice five eyes been pretty quiet. Japan's popping off almost as if Japan's seeing stuff recently in the last five years or so. He's their former defense minister and he's pretty woke on UFS. Good. He should be because I may or may not hypothetically know. But, you know, people have something about Japan or hypothetically. Yeah. Hypothetically. But, you know, you talk about BAE. People forget. Everybody wants to talk about Lockheed Skunkworks. BAE has Falconworks. That is BAE's version of Skunkworks and BAE has joined ventures with Lockheed with Skunkworks on material sciences, on engineering, on engines, on all of it. Commander, David Fraver, who is in the Nimitz incident, he works at BAE, I believe. I would, I'm not aware of that. I believe you. For me, I don't want to blow up anybody's spot if that's true, but yeah. Well, if I had experienced what he experienced in 2004, you know what I would do. I'd be like, I want to figure out how this stuff works. I don't blame him. Yeah. Again, I'm searching my own answers. As Jeremy said, Dylan's out here looking for answers. He's probably never going to get on. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy topic. Okay. So, you find out all of this stuff through people that, how much do you trust these people at BAE who you're having conversations with? I trust them. I trust them 100% and then this is where this gets really problematic. You're sure they weren't feeding you? I'm positive because the problem is when I became a whistleblower, I went to Arrow and the IG, they confirmed it was true. And how did they confirm that it was true? Because they wrote my memorandum for records, called an MFR and what my triangle sighting was listed as unclassified, everything else they immediately threw into a special access program. And this goes back to Tim Phillips interview with Chris Sharp, which again, we all know it, but I'm going to cite what is publicly available. Tim Phillips himself said triangles are real. They want to know where they're coming from. And we can get into reverse engineering and hypothetically our own programs that have been successful. To some extent, per James Lekatsky saying, yeah, we were semi-successful. But, uh, explain who Tim Phillips is. Tim Phillips was basically the director who took over after a homeboy Kirkpatrick over there at Arrow. Okay. And Tim Phillips acknowledged, yes, still into two drawings and yes, Arrow was told what to classify because of his security classification guide. I would love for that security classification guide to be released publicly on why they hypothetically classified drawings that I can't talk about. This is per Jeremy, per OD and I committing a felony against people, but, uh, Arrow directly indirectly acknowledged to me that this stuff was real on that side of the house. What you got to remember is after I became a whistleblower in 23, I knew where to look already and I began ripping data legally, I want to be clear there, legally ripping everything as a CWMD expert because these are considered a weapon of mass destruction. And I took it upon myself to serve the nation and, uh, yeah, counter weapons of mass destruction. So you had access to all this stuff. I had access to what I needed to outside of SAP. So when I was at Ditchry, I wasn't sap red. I was ACC M red. Um, yeah. So basically, this is wild. So you get told some stuff by people you really trust and then in 2023, you start to systematically corroborate all these things that they're telling you with accesses that you have. So you're literally looking into databases, government databases on UFO legacy crash retrieval programs. I don't want to say UFO legacy crash retrieval programs. I'm looking into databases and I know where to look and what the signatures are. So I can deconstruct legacy doing taskers and then I can begin to pull reports and briefings from Arrow and reports about baiting craft, uh, and how to take them down, which matches things I may or may not have testified to prior that happened in the past. Can I take a best guess as to what you want, man? I'm going to sit here and do my best and I'll pull an organ and be like, Oh, God. So go for it. I mean, my best guess. And this is again, based on open source information in, again, lose book and other other things, baiting UFOs with nuclear material and then taking them down with directed energy and high powered radar. That's a hell of a statement, Jesse, I think, uh, you're a very intelligent young man, sir. Well, it's almost feels like you kind of ubiquitously known at this point. Um, that's, that's really wild. So you're looking at, wow. Okay. Oh, imagine, imagine that, uh, that was all turned over to OD and I too. So what is happening right now? Why don't they do anything about any of this stuff? I think my best guess is that they really don't want the crime aspect. I think that if we're going to get the disclosure, it's going to be a weekend confirmed We're not allowed to. alone, uh, give immunity to the past and try their best to cover up all the BS that happened. Well, you must be of a split mind because you're probably aware that they're gonna shovel all sorts of actually very unsavory things into. That's my, yeah, quote unquote, you have a legacy programs including maybe, you know, MK Ultra mind control. I fully, you know, yes. Iran contrast style stuff. Absolutely. You know, like, uh, no habeas corbis hits done on people, you know, all sorts of shit. But simultaneously, you are one of the people that they are unfairly going after because you weren't implicated in any legacy efforts at all. So, so you must be of a split mind where you're like, I want to be off the well, to be able to speak freely and not in all these kind of crazy hypotheticals. But you also want people to be held accountable. Uh, yeah, well, I do. And again, this is again, this is where this gets crazy is like, look, I, I want the best for everybody. I love these people. I get it. If you're a young woman or man in your 30s trying to have a family and you're making 120 grand in DC and your life revolves around clearances and doing jobs, you will never have that money. You'll, you'll never have a comparable job on the outside. I get it. But at the same time, I would wish these people would go and say, like, look, almost conscientious objector status, which is like, I don't want to impact somebody else. I cannot put my name to this. Um, I would also say this. And this is where this gets real fun is I have no idea how much I've been read into. Like I got my first read ons were like eight hours. Uh, they gave us a stack of paper like this thick with sticky notes. It was like sign here, here, here. They're like, you have 15 minutes of sign or you lose your job. I have, to this day, I've, I've been read into so much stuff. I don't even know what I was read into. Right. So that's tricky, man. See, you're, you're probably, they're just landmines everywhere. And here we are now. This is why I said, you know what, you guys want to throw me a treason commit a felony against me. You guys want to do this to me. I'm going to do my best. I love my country. I'm going to tell the truth. I'm not playing the game. You're gonna be the people's champion, especially after they hear the rest of this absurd story. So, so you look into all this stuff. And then at what point do you experience backlash and reprisals? Well, when I was at BAE, they were playing with my clearance. And it's called an amin, which are all one of the things I know people want to go and say is like, oh, of course, still. No, my clearance has never been revoked. I've never had a security violation. My clearance has always been intact. I've never failed a polygraph straight up. Never. Never been arrested. I've never had a thing done not financial issues. None of it. When I was at BAE, it's called an amin withdrawal. So for the people who are in the IC, they're going to hear this term. They're going to laugh. It's called two years, use or lose. And what that means is that if you leave the IC, if you don't use your clearance within two years, your clearance goes into amin withdrawal. There is a way, and I know this because of my company. I worked for a ditcher for six years. Awesome company. Loved it. Never had an issue. Great bosses for my company. Great bosses for ditcher. Great contract lead bosses. Love them. I would shout them out. But I'm very careful about people. I know. So a way to get around this is what you do is a opium in the government in CIA. What you do is you put in a request for an updated SF86. And the way you do this, that is your security background investigation. So you have to give over your financials, everyone you know, fill out all your forms, so you're married to, who you talk to, anybody overseas, which a lot of people in this space have violated who are currently working for government. And I'll leave it there. But what you do is you put that in and then you submit it to the security manager. But here's how you get around. And this is how you destroy a security clearance. You submit it to the old SSO. And the reason why you do it is if you're not working for the company or the agency at the time you request it, you have 30 days to fill it out. If you don't fill it out within 30 days, your security clearance is administratively withdrawn. And this just happened me in contact with the desert. I was using my security clearance last June. So my security clearance technically is supposed to be good. Right now is undefined. Somebody put in a request to my former company for an updated SF86. And because I don't work for them, that company does not owe it to me for me to fill it out. And now I'm in a status of undefined. So I would need another company to pick me up, refill it all out, go through the paperwork, go through the finances, pay people to do it. And that is a way to screw with people in their careers. So you're in this kind of liminal limbo space where your security clearance is technically good, but de facto it doesn't work. It's bad. And as a result of that, you can't pursue other professional opportunities. You're kind of stuck at B.E. At that point in time in 2018, yes. So what they did is they disappeared me. It's currently happening now again. And this goes back to when you asked me the question about when did I start to see this. The problem is is when I was at BAE between 2015 and 2018, they were playing this game. I worked for Ditra January 2019 until 2024. Summer 24. Awesome. Love them. Great people. That mission was awesome. I am so upset that that job, that contract ended. Once that contract ended in 2024, that's when all these games began again. All of these games with me began again. Going into polygraphs and they're asking me to disclose classified that I testified to with the IG, playing games with my clearance, playing games with my job racks. Why do you think, because you experienced all this stuff like from 2015 to 2018 at BAE, you're learning all the sensitive UFO stuff. Yeah, maybe you're looking into databases later, but like you haven't done anything, treasonous with any of this information. And then after you serve for five years on the defense threat reduction agency around counter WMD stuff, and you do that presumably pretty effectively, because you do it for five years. At the end of that, they're still worried that your liability, I don't understand. Well, the problem is, is that that last year is when I became whistleblower, I went to the IG, I went to Arrow, I went to Congress. Okay. So why do you decide to do that? Because I had heard from people who were whistleblowers went forward and this goes back to Dave and Russ and piece of Matthew Sullivan and I'm so so sorry for his family. Like this goes back to Vanguard. I wish nothing but the best for his loved ones. Like I don't like this stuff, but why I decided come for was because people who were whistleblowers and affiliated with the UAP Task Force made a comment and said people's lives were in danger and one of the people who was 100% red in and had their career destroyed two weeks prior got into another mess related to this as I interpreted it. I came for it because I wanted to save lives. I think of a shit about UFOs. So you were inspired by the unfair retribution, being hurled against current whistleblowers and you wanted to kind of jump in. That and then also like I have a thing and we talked about this, you know, I'm a Catholic, it doesn't mean all other religions are wrong. I just know for me it's right. I'm going to have to answer for everything when I pass away and I can't go and die and look God in the eyes and say like, hey, you know this shit is real to some extent. What did you do? Because if you would have said it, then you could have saved the life. That's why. Was there any particular testimony that kind of resonated with you most where you were where you listening to a particular speech or congressional testimony? This was this was all closed door behind government and classification people who 100% were whistleblowers. I knew they had issues like I said in weaponized. I knew that there was some stuff they weren't telling the truth on. I didn't want to risk it and I know what I know what I went through. I know what the specific individual who was 100% red in hands on what they went through while in government and then how they ended up with me bumping into these programs under my job at BAE. I didn't want to risk it because I know it. I mean like break into the house, leaving mail on the table, taking computers, that whole thing. Wait, so that was happening to you. That was happening to the people I knew who were in legacy back at BAE in 2018. Got it. And so you were almost worried about getting grouped in with them as well. Well, a little bit. It was mainly they had just lost their job two weeks prior. Yeah. 2023. And I heard through the grapevine that that had happened. I know they were in legacy. I know it was done to them. I know their job was taken from them. They lost their job two weeks prior and I get told people are in danger currently who worked in it. Got it. So you and then you were worried about getting lumped. There you go. And did you worry at all that the searches you made in 2023 were linked with. No. Any of the things that they faced. No, because I've always I've always assumed and this goes back to OD and I when they duplicated my phone. I, you know, behind the scenes, all of us just assumed that all of us are tapped, but like I know I'm tapped. I mean they duplicated my phone. I have always told people like look if you're talking to me I will never say a word. I'm not recording. I'm not screenshotting but this conversation to be fully transparent It's not private because somebody else is listening a third party. I understand that sounds paranoid, but it's not it's real We know people we know people that Absolutely happen to provably But yeah, can you say anything more about that? I don't want to okay. It may go back to people I talked about under those in front of congress and How much I love them and care about them and how great of a person they are. I'll leave it there. Okay, so you're you're seeing Retributions Against these people who you were having conversations with in the 2015 to 2018 time range in 2023 yes, yes, and so you start to get nervous and like I Then also you're inspired by these other whistleblows who've come out people like David Grush and you're like I want to throw my hat in the ring Yeah, well, so at that point Dave had I never talked to Dave That's the other irony is the I only knew one person who was involved in this now I knew that this whole thing existed, but you got to remember as where I'm at is so closed off from the rest of the I see I am in my own little bubble special access program like Different world and even at ditch roots a different world. Why do you think they're going to lump you in automatically like why do you think they're going to show up at your house? So it wasn't that it was The person I one of the people I know who were legacy loss or job and They were working in programs that are affiliated with it and I thought that they may have been a whistleblower So I wanted to make sure I came forward as Basically protect them got it Got it and Did that person end up coming forward or no? Please the fifth okay fair enough. So you come out and who do you go to first? I The person made the comment that people's lives were in danger. I called them. I said look. I know you have I know what call it misrepresented You have been a bit of a big fish story. You know what that means Like oh, I caught a bass that was this size and you tell everybody else it was this size Kind of extra extrapolating the truth I was like look I know I know this has happened. It's no fault of your own But if people's lives are in danger don't fuck with me Considering what I did for a living which we kind of talked about already. I don't play with people's lives I said uh, you know If you are telling me the truth people's lives are in danger do not lie to me because you will destroy my life My family's life my friends lives if people's lives are actually in danger I need to immediately talk to somebody who can do something about it And I was on the phone with this person for about an hour and I decided you know what On the off chance as true. I got to do something and they are connected me with congress and that's March 3rd I talked with congress two or three days prior and March 3rd. I was in a skiff with congress staffers Okay, and you're telling these congressional staffers almost everything you know about 60-70 I told them what they needed to confirm that there was a program. It existed some bad stuff happened that this stuff is real Yes It's interesting because when you speak to these staffers They are just super high conviction that you know Again, it's like either there's the some ridiculous, you know, acting academy on the inside of the government Or it's like, you know, this is just real. It's just real um That's so wild. Okay, so you tell you tell these congressional staffers and then what's the next step? Are they like thank you for the information and then we'll look into it or like what what happens? I go in there I tell them I'm like look That's a whole nother story that one day I'll tell I mean I was I was nervous. I was shaking obviously was what I'd been through I want to trust people. I'm like I have to do this. I don't want somebody to die. Um But about did you ever speak to Kirk McConnell by any chance? You don't have to say I play the fifth. Okay It's interesting because he he literally said on my show Some of these guys come in they're extremely earnest. They have credible backgrounds and they're they're nervous and they're shaking and It was almost in some cases palpable. I can recall um An instance where one source Was visibly shaking. I mean physically So stressed and I'm sure you are not alone in that If if if if hypothetically you guys spoke But that's why I remembered I I think and he was a he's a Kirk and intelligence community was Kirk is an intelligent man. Yeah Kirk has been around the block and I think Kirk ended up where he's at because Not because it isn't true. I think Kirk knows what's going on. Yeah. He knows what's going on He worked for Senator Jack Reed and Jack Reed's mentor is a guy or actually the person who preceded Jack Reed was Clayborn Pell Clayborn Pell it was this senator who is long into UFOs. He's from Delaware both of them were and You know obsessed with with with UFOs and he was Biden's mentor, which I find fascinating So there's this like weird Biden UFO connection and then back to 2023 who was president when we were going through the IG and all these games are I digress digress No comment. Okay, so you're going you're going to Congress maybe the Senate and you are spilling your guts and then what do they say? Do they say we're gonna we're gonna help you we're gonna come up on this or what happens? I go and tell them I'm like yo, this is what's going on I clearly said enough because they already knew Certain things specifically about what I was saying and the questions they asked and their Responses were very telling they knew of some of the stuff I was saying Um and they hit me up and they're like yo, did you go to arrow? It's like no. I don't know how to contact arrow Is that what you need me to do? So they got me touching arrow and I went to arrow. Oh, that was the end of March and arrow is the all domain anomalies resolution office And it is now kind of patently obvious that the first iteration of this under Sean Kirkpatrick was literally a fly trap for You know UFO information probably had legacy ties. They would systematically lure in people like yourself who had information They would collect all the information often not even record the conversation Just kind of use it for they didn't record yours. No, there you go And then and then sometimes I my guess is they might have destroyed evidence in certain cases because I've had a couple of people tell me they spoke to them and their emails were deleted after the fact and weird things So I believe that I mean luckily for me Luckily for me going through what I've been through and Having dealt with this across government. I don't trust people. So I save everything So uh when I got an email telling me hey, we know this is wrong correct it from arrow Uh, I saved that document and uh, I made sure that was secured legally In readily available at phone call request if you have a TSSCI I will send everything over to you with everything but uh, that doesn't surprise me what you said That's awesome. See you recorded your conversation I kept everything Jesse and this goes back to OD and I oh yeah, I got caught red handed lying And how so So arrow had sent over a false MFR Uh said that was the true one. What's an MFR? Memorandum for record. It was supposed to be their version of what I told them They acknowledged to me an email that it was wrong. They told me to write the corrections Uh, this goes into the staffer they targeted um I saved that I saved the image I saved every I say private conversations with people um But I made the corrections and I saved my email back to them with confirmation saying they received it When I went to OD and I under Kuzlowski and I'm not trying to throw him under the bus I'm just telling you these are the facts arrow is under Kuzlowski right now When I went to OD and I September 10th of 2025 because Loskey was director per OD and I dig Kuzlowski sent my MFR my legal sign document to OD and I saying this is what I said And they sent the false report and luckily I saved it So I can't tell you arrow and Kuzlowski lied. I can't tell you OD and I lied So arrow sent an entirely different report they sent that you they sent the one that they knew was false And I had the true one Say what what do you have any sense of the difference between the false I do I because I had to make the corrections. I had a sign. I sent it back. I made the corrections. Yes. I do So what were the falsities included in I don't want to I don't want to get into specifics because it reveals people specific people that was my concern and then it also exposes staffers It exposes very specific things and then this gets into OD and I dig calling Jeremy saying I made a false drawing that never happened That the report itself contradicts what OD and I was trying to get me on for treason. It's it's a whole thing So did they they included details that you didn't include one hundred percent nice and then those details Did they happen to line up with things that you actually experience? No, no, they literally just inserted stuff They did and that's why they call me and said hey Dylan you need to make the corrections and what they were doing Was trying to get me to give more information about the people I knew they're fishing. Yes 100% Jesus Christ man, that is dark. I know. That's why I call Congress. I was like, yeah, they're coming after you and oh by the way I probably need an attorney because this is some messed up stuff Have you ever cuz cuz losky seems like a reasonable guy? I never talked to him just like her Patrick her Patrick going to meet with me when I got through with it The people I met with and I think the lieutenant colonel. I think he's a good dude I talked with him on the phone and him and I had a law on conversation about this and They know the truth Jesse at this behind the scenes people know the truth But uh they want to me go and talk to her Patrick and her Patrick. Dock me He talked me It's so weird. I mean I've interviewed now so many people like yourself and will like talk for hours on end and like you know I'm getting a sanitized version of the testimony that arrows getting and wrapped up in hypotheticals and all sorts of things and then So and and I'm high conviction and what you're saying, you know, and then You have this long conversation with them you give them everything and then they insert details and give it to the od and i and then the od and i You say of treason. So here we go. So to be clear. I'll say it this way They wanted me to name the people that I knew that we're working on the program. I refused to do it and they wanted the name of the program I refused to do it because I didn't want to put that person in danger Going back to why I went to congress because I thought their life was in danger That's the problem They wanted the people and they wanted the name and if you are in these programs those names change so many months And that's how you can narrow down Who spoke so why should anybody trust air out on a go-forward basis and maybe they're doing better now But the problem is and this is my big thing back to what we were talking about as me being here is not just vanguard But I want od and i held accountable. I want to know why it caused waski and arrow sent a false report to od and i I want to know why apparently per od and i arrow falsified evidence against me That is think about that Jesse remove UFOs. We talked about this remove UFOs You have a disabled veteran with a clearance with polygraph and the lead intelligence agency falsified evidence against me for treason, which is a death penalty That's where we're at right now. Can you say the specifics of how they falsified the evidence? Jeremy spoke about it They created a fake fourth drawing and I have the text messages and so does Multiple people have all the evidence approved this happened and I called out od and i said You drew things for them and they created another Per od and i per dig who leaked classified information and medical records to journalist Jeremy Corbellan George nap per them Per the guy who called them committing a felony He said I created a fourth drawing. I never created. I said I want to come in and see it and I was ghosted So crazy man. And here's a kicker. Yeah ready that fourth drawing they're claiming I made The problem is is and I have it the fourth drawing they're claiming I made Contradicts what is in the arrow report and I called them out on said you realize you're contradicting yourself Not only do I make not make a fourth drawing by definition and classification You are literally admitting to me right now. This never happened Because verbally in the classification guidance and at the beginning of paragraphs So I've like secret no foreign TS no foreign What they said I made the fourth drawing of Is in writing in text Not classified what they were claiming I drew Well, there you go. So you have evidence that not only are they you know acting in bad faith, but they're incompetent and I mean the other thing that's so crazy about this and again this is coming from Jeremy is He's talking about them you know Saying that like a high-roglyphic could possibly be a wild and classified which is like ready how could you ever You know say that somebody's committing treason for drawing a high-roglyphic while simultaneously saying that the whole UFO program is fake What would the high-roglyphic be like hypothetically you have that is per Jeremy with what was leaked to him illegally Yeah, by od and i dig. I can't tell you if that's true. What I'll tell you is back to Tim Philip saying Dylan drew two drawings And there was a classification guidance and it was wrapped into a special access program Where's the security classification guy to hypothetically classify that if it was true These are the questions people should be asking our government Yeah, that's absolutely Hypothetically, yeah, you know classifying a high-roglyphic while simultaneously saying all of this stuff is fake Just feels like you are really talking out of it, you know two sides of your mouth there. It's so crazy Yeah, right? It's crazy and then the other sort of interesting thing is Jeremy brought up this guy Chuck McCullough in your guys's interview People don't know that Chuck McCullough used to be the intelligence community inspector general of the United States And so the fact that he's you know spoken at soul and he's getting involved in UFO stuff In helping you know Jeremy and Georgia out in certain situations Obviously, you know that shows that he's confident that this whole subject is real. Why would he move from You know multi many years at the NSA, you know many years, you know at the highest levels of intelligence To you know representing these guys when it comes to the UFO topic if he thought that this was all fake Yeah, I fully agree and then right back to what Jeremy said with my interview when all these felonies were committed against whistleblowers in the last year When Chuck McCullough is on the phone with you and saying Well, they did it the whistleblowers didn't Legally you are allowed to say this So what does that say what does that say about our nation? This is why like everybody wants to make this about extraterrestrials This isn't actually terrestrials. It never was about extraterrestrials. This is about the foundation of our constitution It's about both and yeah Ballad and actually terrestrials loosely. Yeah, well that mean the problem I think with the whole quote unquote extraterrestrials thing is it's what arrow uses as like a Strongman sort of fall guy when you use the word extraterrestrials That's an analytical overlay to conclusion that you're making based on an underlying data set Which is actually you know hard to jump to conclusions on we don't have definitive evidence that they're from other planets But we have definitive evidence that we didn't create these anomalous materials You know you have again, maybe some biologics all these things fully agreed and you notice our government has never denied that second portion They've only denied we have no evidence of extraterrestrials. Yes Okay, so you got Really messed with by Arrow and by you know od and I I want to talk about this next saga of you're going to the VA And that goes all the way back to Langley and that goes back to when I was working at BA Okay, so let's hear about this You know like I said They were doing some really weird stuff. I turned over the better like mind control stuff I don't want to say mind control. I want to be again to be fair What happened? I mean a lot of stuff basically the easiest way to say it with them is I got out of the Air Force And I witnessed a suicide Do drowned multiple witnesses. I have the police report. I can literally pull out my phone show you I sent it to od and I with the police report I have the voicemail from the police on my phone. I can play it for you. I have the medical records But basically what had happened was I got out of the military and the VA denied ever did the job I did and said None of this ever happened Dylan you never did the job you did which contradicts my EPR Because I have my enlisted performance review proving I was doing the job. I was doing the VA said I made that up too And that's all in my medical records provable um But long story short uh Witnesses suicide police came Pittsburgh search and rescue came they had to pull the body out of the river nightmare dude um But they had denied all of it happening And then while I'm at the VA uh, they tell me oh uh, you need to go into this PTSD program Which I'm not allowed to go I'm not allowed to collect so the way the VA works is if you have a disability You have a financial and medical incentive to help you with it So the VA is treating me for it while also denying me the medical and financial aspect of it And they put me in this weird program back in 2016 2017 where they're flashing images and air horns. I'm counting backwards from a hundred from a hundred by seven and wild stuff Dude to this day. I still don't know what it was about um But just that crap and my medical records is just full of insane stuff and I have all of them um Doctors have quit over it. I know one of the doctors filed a complaint. He was told to leave is insane stuff. What sort of testing are they doing on you? So, at that point in time in 2016-2017, I would go in and get hooked up to a pressure cough. It was a polygraph. They would put the brain things on my brain, put me up to a pressure cough heartbeat. It was a polygraph. And then I would sit in a room in the back. There was the female doctor who was CIA. She was confirmed CIA. And then they had to do with an air horn, who claimed he was an old retired army ranger. How do you know she was CIA? She admitted it to me. Okay. She actually, how I know is because she knew what I was doing for BAE and knew specifically where I worked and told me. Whoa. So, while that's happening, I'm in there and they're just, for an hour a day, I have to go in, twice a week. And they're, I get hooked up to this polygraph machine and there's a computer. And they're just flashing images. It's like a butterfly. Kid with a gun, car explosion. Bunny rabbit. I had to count backwards from 100 by seven. And if I went 193, 86, instead of saying 79, 78, the air horn would go off and I would have to restart and they would restart the flashing images. What? Dude. Swear to God. It's so weird. Again, I don't know. What else, what are other examples? I mean, that's the biggest one. And then they put me on those meds that made me suicidal. And that's why my first doctor quit, the psychiatrist quit. So they put you on meds that you're convinced. I know for 100%. It is documented. That is why the doctor quit. This is why I stopped going to the VA. What? What was the medication? Some SSRIs. And do you think that that was intended? I do, yes. Because SSRIs, I look, I'm very anti SSRI myself, but I know people who are like, if it helps me, all the power, all the power. So I, all I'm saying is, how do you know that the intention? Because I never had a suicidal thought in my life. And then all of a sudden after like two months of taking them, I would wake up in the middle of the night and be like, Oh, like, you know how you're thirsty? This is how I explained it. Once you wake up in your thirsty and you go to the bathroom, I had a physical response after two months of taking them, having never had this in my life. And my physical response was commit suicide. Was this a generic SSRI or was it some unique? If you want an answer to it, I'll pull my medical records. I will tell you all the meds I've been on. Well, I'm just, I'm curious as to how intentional that was because I do think that is can be a side effect, you know, the SSRI. And then I'm wondering, you know, if they were trying to mess with you and that was a big part of messing with you or if SSRIs just generally make you more impressionable and kind of softer and placate you. But again, look at this in context of everything that's happening. I'm working with BAE with a full scope poly doing the job I'm doing at BAE at the location I'm doing it. I'm in this weird ass program. They're putting my on these meds or denying I ever did the job. Did he say or depressed? Like, why did they give you the SSRI at all? Because they said I have PTSD, but they said I have PTSD for a job that they're claiming I never did. That's the problem. That whole thing. It's all in my medical records. So they claimed you didn't do the drone operator job or they claimed that I was. They claimed that I never did imagery for drones with the Air Force. Where were they claiming that? The fuck if I know, Jesse, this is my problem. So they were like gaslighting you, saying you have PTSD. And then they were funneling this pill. And go into this weird ass program. Yes. And what was the program? That this whole thing with these flashing images, MRIs, constantly all of it. And meanwhile, they're denying all of my VA benefits. What else do you remember from that MRIs? Just me. I'm being told by the doctors, hey, we messed up, but you have to do all this to get your benefits. And oh, you bought a house. If you don't do it, we're going to withdraw your VA benefits for your home loan. And I'm just going through it while working for the government doing everything I'm doing, trusting the system. So it's counting backwards from 100 going by seven each time and having images flashing in front of you is weird. And I don't quite understand how you justify that in some conventional medical, you know. So, you know, this is some sort of checkup context. So what else did you experience? I mean, that was it, man. Like they put me in these rare programs. They were constantly having going to MRIs. They were constantly having me meet with a therapist. Were they giving you any sort of extra sensory perception or pre-sentiment tests? Like what's under this card? No. Okay. Not at all like that. No, but they were there were weird experiments being done there. That whole thing is odd because this goes back to intent. If you're going to put me in a treatment program, then you have to acknowledge that I need to treatment, meaning I have it. And they were denying that I had it. So why I'm in a treatment program when you're saying it doesn't exist. Any any other details you remember from that? No, it was just I'm going up there working for BAE, doing all this crazy shit. And everybody's like, you don't exist. None of this happened. But you need to come here or we'll pull your house loan and you'll never get your benefits in treatment. It was bananas, dude. So strange. Do you look back at that period and think or speculate about some ulterior motive behind that medical example? I mean, I do because I learned enough now. But again, here's the irony. Is going back to this whole subject. Well, what do you think it was? I believe the fifth. I don't want to get into it because I know enough. And then we're going to get into people's names and programs and things that are out there. But do you think it was like adjacent to something that we all met like MK Ultra, like some mind control? Well, I think it was adjacent to something that our government has been studying. And this goes back to me having our process with the Navy and then talking about my UFO experience at Langley. Whatever that all is, it was all connected. Now, I'm not saying they did it because of it. I know it was connected. There's no doubt on my mind. So you think they were systematically testing experiences? Well, that's documented. You have the leak phone call with green and K Randall. What's your name? K Randall May. K Randall, you have that leak phone call where they are literally saying we are testing veterans, military government officials who have had experiences. And in their own words, hybrids, I want to be clear, this is not me saying it, that is them saying it. In 2017, while I'm going through this, that's happening. I want to be very clear and very fair. I'm not saying everything I encountered is because of my sighting. But everything I encountered happened. And Kit Green ran the CIA's Weird Desk and it's very serious. Him and put off in a homeboy over in Israel. The remote viewer, dude, they're all referencing that leak phone call. Yeah. Who's the in Israel? The remote viewer. You're a girl. You're a girl. Yeah. They name him by name. They want to put him in MRIs. They want to remote view him while he's in the MRIs. All of it. And do you know that this turned into some sort of formal program? No idea. No idea. Interesting. Crazy. Did you ever have any contact with that CIA doctor after that? No. In fact, well, this goes back after I left the IG and now right back to Vanguard again. When the IG stuff went down, I had called the staffer, the attorney. I was like, dude, you got to get us help. This is insane. Like, you're telling me this is all true that everything that happened that I said is true. I'm never allowed to talk about my childhood. Like, what am I supposed to do with my life? And they had said, uh, well, you know, Dylan, you have VA benefits. Go up there and talk to them. And I was like, I'm not going to the doctors who did this to me. They still work there. I'm not doing it. Um, so basically I take no meds. I use nicotine and, uh, I do my own thing. I don't do drugs. I, I don't even take CBD. I take nothing. And, uh, luckily I have good friends like you and Jeremy and George and other people I met with organ and contact and the other whistleblowers. And we're all kind of using each other as therapists to get through this until disclosure happens when we get justice. But you've experienced all sorts of, uh, targeting and reprisals beyond, you know, even just that. Your break lines were cut and you've experienced talking. So per the police stalking not so much, uh, but per the police. Yes. My break lines were cut 100%. And what, what happened there? Nothing. I was out. It was right after I left VAE. I got a phone call from somebody who worked with that VAE and invited me out. He disappeared for an hour. He comes back and he's like, Hey, I'm going to go. You want to go? I get in my car. My car rucks. I have a police investigation. I call them. I'm like, come pick me up through a breathalyzer blood work. Me. I go through the whole process. They come back three days later and they're like, yo, your break lines were cut. It happened. Do you have, uh, like a dead man switch given all the, yeah. Of course. I said it and weaponized. I told the very first conversation. I would Jeremy. I said, Jeremy, I don't know you, you don't know me. I'm going to go become a congressional whistleblower if anything happens to me. I will have my dead man switch triggered. I'm telling you which true. Yeah. Of course I do. Do you think that in UFO legacy context, people can call in craft with their minds? I think that, okay. So now we're going to get into the fun hypotheticals. Um, I do believe remote viewings, true. I do believe in prophetic dreams. I do believe in consciousness projection. You know, we talk about this. Everybody who knows me knows why I void the will. And the reason why I really avoid the wew is because I'm already fighting enough on stuff I've already proved behind the scenes, provable. Um, yeah, of course I believe that's true. The problem I have is I think people have pushed best what is true to something that isn't so they can diminish what the truth is. Interesting. Yeah, so there are ways to stigmatize the truth by getting to be out of the wew. Exactly. Do you think people can call in UFOs with their mind? I think they can connect to them absolutely. Yeah. My issue is is that I think you can connect to them, I think it's true, but my issue is is if you can connect to them and communicate to them, bring them within 50 feet, have them land. Like do that instead of having lights 200 miles out, bring them in. If you're communicating, if you're in touch with source and all this new age stuff, bring them in. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Um, do you think what you saw was non-human or ours? I know. I know for a fact it was not human made and not ours. How do you know for a fact? Because Arrow proved it when they listed it as unclassified and then classified the other drawings dealing with unidentified unknown origin drawings and technologies. But if it was ours, they would have classified it and they didn't. Okay. Yeah, fair enough. If you don't trust them and you think they're bad faith actors, they still would have classified. They would have to. So here we go. Back to intent. Yeah. I view everything from intent. Mm-hmm. Why go and classify the other stuff and not classify that? Yeah. No. It doesn't make sense. There we go. I mean, unless it was like we, they know that they've lost all trust. And so the 40 chess game would be to not classify because they know that we'd talk about it. But definitely, but again, not human when in fact it was ours. Here we go. Back to earlier when you were talking about 4K videos and bodies and everything. I know for a fact there are cell phone videos of triangles, undeniable, end of discussion, ends all conversation. The reports are there. It is there. So they're not that they won't release those videos. Sure. Got it. So you get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. So those inherently if you saw one of those, they would have to be classified. And now you get into the fun too, which is hypothetically we have imagery satellites around the world hypothetically. We're seeing other countries with the same stuff over their sites. You go out again. I know. Arrow would have, if I walked in there and started talking about a 9th gen airplane that's being tested, they would have classified immediately. This goes back to by law what arrow arrow had no original classification authority. They had to go to the IC and go to the private companies and say, hey, this is what they said. What is the classification per your guidance? So all of those places based off of my testimony would have been documented by them with a classification guidance saying that was one of our classifier. They didn't do it. Do you think there are any non-governmental transnational organizations that deal with UFOs? 100? Yes. I do. Any sense of who these organizations are? I have ideas, but I don't want to get into it again. It's hypotheses. Yeah. You know, I'm very, like I keep saying, I'm looking at this from a fact perspective trying to find answers myself, but I think all of us would be naive, like we talked about last night, which is there has to be some type of agreement minimally globally, if not with whatever we're encountering, because China, Russia could blow up America's spot. We talk about operation in like climax and we talk about all this. You look at social media manipulation, China, Russia could literally embarrass the US with what they know on this and they don't do it. So now back to intent, why? So there has to be some type of transnational agreements organizations has to be. And some kind of agreement between all terrestrial governments amongst themselves and maybe with the non-human intelligence as well. First section, I fully agree with second section. I'm 99.9% sure I don't want to go there because I can't tell you it's 100% true. I'm pretty sure it's true, man. You said you think that UFO abductions, alien experiences, you know, people kind of being able to see beyond the veil a little bit and make contact, runs in families. Yeah, genetics. I do believe that, but here we go. I'm glad you bring up this back to the cone of blue documents. So one more of the cone of blue documents made originally, not the class. What was that 10 years ago? Yeah. And then I thought it was late earlier than that. Okay. No, that makes it even better. Yeah. Okay. So hypothetically, back to cone of blue and remote viewing and all this stuff. In those documents, the United States government is admitting they have the capability to give you false memories, mess with your brain, make you do things. And that's without drugs. They're saying that capability is now presently available, not just for the US, but for others. And I hate to break it to people. The technology that we're all using, the public sector, that's been done years ago in the IC, DARPA, IRPA, the rest of them. One of the things, again, that I'm trying to figure out is, if you haven't experienced, and this goes back to discernment and back to consciousness, well, hypothetically, if the CIA is able to manipulate your brain while you're sleeping and play with your brain, how do you know it's the CIA and not an NHI and oh, by the way, Russia and China are not able to do it and oh, by the way, this was a private company. How do you go and unpack that? Yeah. It's an extremely complicated topic because you have three known things that humans have looked into, anti-gravity propulsion or gravity manipulation, whatever you want to call it, MK Ultra, or mind control. And then the third thing would be directed energy. And you have all these things and all of these things are really hard to attribute in a terrestrial context. You know, only up until the last couple of years has the intelligence community, people from the CIA and NSA started to say that Russia and microwave weaponry is responsible for this Havana syndrome and vestibular destabilization that a lot of, you know, diplomats have experienced all over the world. You have a really interesting book called The Controllers by a guy named Martin Cannon. He talks about how MK Ultra was used or the alien abduction thing was used as a smoke screen for MK Ultra. I believe so. And so I'm sure that, but you know, and that doesn't make the abduction thing out of you. Absolutely. It makes it more likely that there is an underlying reality to that. And that's why it's a good smoke screen in certain contexts. And then you have anti-gravity, you know, propulsion, you know, people like Thomas Townsend Brown, who I'm as high conviction in anything when it comes to this story. And it seems like that's how the craft's fly. So it's an extremely convoluted and complicated landscape where you never know what you're looking at. Yeah. You know, I think, you know, let's, let's have the fun. We talked about the car scenario, the first conversation I had with you is about this. You and I went over this. I was like, Jesse, I think it's everything and stuff we still don't understand or know. Like all of this can be true and I believe it all is true. And the problem is, is that my opinion is the reason they're keeping this a secret is it because so criminal, so messed up, so much money, yeah, it is embarrassing. And then this goes back to legalities, right back to OD and I and what they did to us, those are felonies, but by law, you have executive orders. I wish I could name it off the top of my head right now, but I had to do security. Everybody in the intelligence community has to do training every year on the classified system and the system, the law literally is you cannot classify information for embarrassment, criminal activity, and financials, they're doing it. It's happening for, so I brought this up. George NAP under oath in front of Congress, which can be used as evidence with the Securities Exchange Commission, literally said, locking Martin had a craft, they were going to sell it to Bigelow and Glenn Gaffney with the CI step then. I have confirmed on the record that Robert Bigelow and a trusted colleague from OSAP met with and negotiated with senior executives at Lockheed Martin and hammered out a deal where in Bigelow's company, Bass, would receive a quantity of unusual material that had been stashed away and protected at a facility in California. That material was not made here. Are any of you willing to name specific gatekeepers within the root cell of the UAPSAP Federation? I have a name for you. Go ahead. Glenn Gaffney. CIA. Glenn Gaffney CIA. Where are the attorneys to sue Lockheed Martin with the Securities Exchange Commission? I don't know. Okay, so now here we go. And even if the attorneys go and sue and you want to say it's a classified law, well guess what? You just admitted they had a craft, right? So where is it? Where is everybody in this? You want to whistleblowers? We came out. We stuck our necks out. We threw caution to the wind and service for God family country. And here we are. Dave's hands are tied behind his back up in Congress, Burleson and Luna and Mosquets, everybody's trying to do this. Where is everybody? Well, that's what strikes me most about this whole topic is it almost feels like there's like a paranormal or parapsychological control mechanism around not letting this stuff out because If you think about it, if the claim is that, you know, the US government has a multi-generational crash retrieval program, we have saucers or if not saucers, parts of saucers and other, you know, geometries, triangles or whatever, in hangars, pull, pop bodies, you know, all these things, right? Then the interesting question to me is like, how come very few smoking guns end up rising to the top in the age of social media and smartphones in the open source context? And there are easy answers to that where it's like, okay, only a few crashes have happened. It really seems like it's this directed energy plus nuclear thing and so it's all kind of, you know, concentrated in certain areas. But I think there are crashes outside of that as well. You get into this weird thing where it's like, is the non-human intelligence in control of the cover-up too? My opinion. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Have you ever talked to anybody in an incredible position in the government who seems to have hinted that humans aren't in charge? The ICIG did it. What did they say? I want to respect them. Okay. The ICIG did it with me. So the intelligence community inspector general told you that humans are not in charge. They are extremely hinted out at us. Holy shit. That is crazy. They hinted at us. That is insane. That's insane. And then you think of the fact that, you know, Chuck McCullough is involved in this topic and really helping out on the whistleblower side. And he was the first intelligence community inspector general. Chuck is a beast. And I think we talked about this last night. You know, I have nothing but respect for everybody who gives a damn about our nation and who cares to serve it. God family country. That is wild that the intelligence community inspector general in this role is basically the judiciary for the intelligence committee. They are going to keep in mind. Yeah. That's the IC, not the CIA, not DOA. Okay. I remember those are separate IGs just like the DODIG is separate. So what would the ICE be privy to that might allow them to say with authority that humans aren't in charge of the government? Again, I want to be very careful and very respectful. This goes back. If you listen to the web SC again, I'm Jeremy and George and I and Matt, all of us, all of us have said things and lay groundwork for years to come because we have no idea. We could die tomorrow. So we're all trying to get this out and have a baseline and be respectful and not go crazy. Like I'm parting with aliens in Washington DC crap. What I said and weaponized was you can tell somebody knows something based on the questions they ask you. You respond and the next question they ask you is very telling. So hypothetically, Jesse, let's say, let's say you ask me a question and I say, yeah, I've seen gray beings, traditional grays. If I said that to you, your next question is be like when? Where? How? Hypothetically speaking, let's say I say that and your next question is, well, where did they come from? And then I respond, well, you know, I don't have any answer. I think they've been here a long time. And the very next statement is, well, who do you think is running the show? Hypothetically, let's say that happened. That's wild. That is so crazy. And it's especially crazy given that, you know, David Grush gave them all sorts of documentation from his experience on the UAP task force where he looked comprehensively in 40 witnesses. Let's let's be clearer. Dave brought 40 witnesses who were not in the program. And Matt and I were not a part of that. Lou was not a part of that to the best of my knowledge. Stratton, Latatsky, this whole list. And they called his his complaint urgent and credible. They did. And so they're calling his complaint urgent and credible. They're telling hypothetically, they're saying, who do you think is running the show? Which is wild. This brings me to another question. You're close with Matthew Brown, who is really interesting, fascinating case and seems like a very deep thinker. And another guy who's very earnest who got totally screwed with. And they're all sorts of reprisals, you know, things that I think at one point people called him super anti-Semitic. So they called it Odin. I dig again. And he said something very interesting on weaponized. He said that humans are a resource. Well, this gets into religion theology. So I want to be very, you know, we talked about this. I want to tell you. But do you have any evidence to believe that humans might be a resource? I don't, but this goes. So again, you want to have fun. Let's have some fun. We'll be talked about. So let's go here. We brought up, I brought up the hypothetical again. I'm not saying this is true. And this isn't like hypothetically. This is a real hypothetical. Let's say that you and I have a soul. We die and based off of current humanity, you have neurolink, you have CRISPR, you have all of these technologies like we discussed. 100 years ago, humans compared today are the same. And 100 years, you can genetically modify a human. It'd be 190 IQ, 6 foot 7, dunking a basketball, that's 12 feet high, connected to neurolink, controlling radios and stuff with your mind. Like that technology exists now. It exists now. It can be done. Last night we discussed and this goes back to the UFO subject. Hypothetically, if we have that technology now between robotics and AI, you don't really need humans. So if you're in advanced civilization, and you're able to do this in your 1000 years ahead of us, well, there's a theory, what we discussed as a hypothetical, you would want to create a entity and a testing program to operate in shades of gray to know who you are at your soul at your heart. And when we die is like, okay, this person has these characteristics, they can fill in. And then oh, by the way, because we're monitoring humans here, because we are humans at a soul level, just in the afterlife, I bring all that up. I have never seen evidence for it. Again, I'm a Catholic. So I believe in sainthood. I make no declaration on ghosts that heaven or hell. I make a declaration on I want to be a saint. Matt and I have had deep theological discussions over many years. We do it all the time. I know where Matt comes from and then you get a Nostecrishianity in the African churches and early Judaism and all of it in Book of Enoch, which people really need to understand why that was left out of the Bible and the Catholic church's stance on it and Judaism's stance on it. But I've never seen it. I mean, you're getting into a conversation that would be five hours, Jesse, on theological. Do you think that the Book of Enoch holds any truth? I absolutely do. The Procures came down and made it with man and I had demigod Nephilim. I'm not going to make a declaration on that. What I will say is this. I am a Catholic per Catholic teaching per Malachai Martin, who is one of the first people to read the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Catholic teaching is the Book of Enoch and basically the Apocrypha. The reason it was excluded is not because it's false. It wasn't because it wasn't 100% true. Their teaching is that you have to be 100% true to be canon. And because those books were not 100 percent true, it doesn't mean that there isn't truth in there. In fact, they say there's truth in there. It's just certain things were not 100% true. Well, I don't know. It's kind of funny. It feels like an arbitrary dividing line. I mean, the New Testament is very supernatural itself. I don't disagree, man. And then you get into the Deuteron canon and people understand the division between Protestants and Catholics. And while the King James Bible took out the Deuteron canon and Maccabees, it's a whole thing. This is like, you and I could do three episodes on theology of the Bible. Well, it is really fascinating. So if you combine a couple of arguments that seem hard to argue with, you end up in a very weird ontological place about how reality works. And so I'm going to give you the two arguments. One is that it's most likely that we are not living in base reality. You've heard Elon Musk say this, Nick Bostrom, this famous Oxford philosopher is famously discussed that we're in this simulation. And that's likely why, because we're creating simulations now. So we are likely the product of a simulation. It's very easy to understand. And honestly, it's kind of hard to argue with. So you take that at face value. Then you take something else at face value, which is the progression of technology and the idea of technology as a forcing function for good and evil. So technology is, you know, the history of tech is the history of humans gaining lower latency higher bandwidth powers to manipulate reality. And so what you end up with logically, this is logically, is the ability for a kid to blow up the world from his bedroom. Yes. And you see now, you see now our generation we grew up with the internet. So I see this is one of the things real quick. I don't mean to cut you off again. We need to rethink everything we understand. I grew up when YouTube started to become known. I can go and go and get a PhD, all but dissertation. So PhD, ABD right now, I can go through all the Harvard classes on multiple degrees. I'm not paying it. The professors are putting it out there. I can literally get All these engineering degrees, physics degrees, It's out there and oh, by the way, AI's out there. And if you know how to manipulate it, what you just said is true. And if you're a 13 year old kid, that's 170 IQ, you can literally, if you have the time in the intelligence, you can create everything around you and have 50 years ago, 100 years ago, what Einstein took 25 years to do. Oh, yeah, at your fingertips. Yeah, because I mean, the internet is a very wide search space. And it's a, there's a lot of information, you know, there. And when it comes to combination, when it comes to conciliance and interdomain insights, like turning, you know, fire to electricity or a horse to a car, that still requires human innovation. But when it comes to combination and search problems, large language models, transformers are amazing at them. They're so much faster than humans. And so if you are on one of these things and you're talking about, you know, create some off the shelf nerve agent or, you know, create some, you know, a new pandemic and these are the variables or whatever. This is freaky, freaky shit, but this is, this is happening. Okay. So, so my point is, so you take the Nick boss from simulation stuff, you take the fact that we, you know, technology is, is, you know, exponentially progressing and progressing in human's ability to like do destructive shit in the world, but also really good stuff too. And so, you know, it's this forcing function, like I said, then you end up with this sort of, okay, we are in a simulation that is a testing round, which dovetails with all religions, and we are being tested based on virtues, you know, patience, you know, goodness, you know, love, of course, hate, you know, all of these things. And if you pass the test, then you end up either in the kingdom of heaven or hell, and you could actually instantiate the kingdom of heaven or hell as, you know, heaven is this place where tech is used for like infinite abundance. And then hell is this place where it's used for like infinite constant destruction. And so you end up with this like crazy forcing function in the afterlife. If you literally just take those two things at face value, which are very hard to logically argue with, fully agreed, applause, fully agree. And then you go read Plato and you're like, who are the guardians? And why are we in a cave? And why are select people being dragged out of the cave into the light? And then why is the light blinding and painful, you know, but also enlightening on some level? Like it kind of sounds like you're being dragged into that, into that wider, you know, possibility space. My opinion is fully agreed. This is why again, like I am one, there are, I know things for a fact. I'm going to say this and people behind the scenes and this is going to resonate. I'm actually choking up about to say this, keep loving your heart, be a good person, tell the truth. What you do here matters. You're an eternal being who lives forever. It's up to you. I know those things are true. Speaking of which, tell me about Paul Thigpen and what he meant to you. He was a saint. I miss him every day. And who was he? Oh, he was a Catholic PhD. He was a great man. Fuck, I'm gonna cry. I am so okay. Um, you know, he, uh, he was, he was more into like new age mysticism and stuff as a kid. I think that's fair to say. And, uh, he, uh, he encountered this stuff, the will and everything else. And, uh, the will led him to search for truth. He found his way into Catholicism. And just like me, he never told anybody like it is your job to convert. It's, it's, I love you. I will do anything for you, be a better person. Um, damn, just see you hit me hard, man. Uh, um, he, he means a world to me. And he was one of these amazing thinkers who I think he thought about. UFOs in the religious context. But he wasn't also a prostalitizer. He wasn't sort of an evangelist of his own views. He was just, was a, I think a very deeply thoughtful, thoughtful guy. And, uh, you know, wasn't, wasn't very shrill. You off of, yeah, we're, we, we have an abundance of shrillness and you have, in the UFO conversation where people are so sure of themselves. And, uh, he just seemed to really, you know, inquire, uh, earnestly. But the truth is, for 26 centuries, the best minds, so many of the best minds of Western civilization have talked about this subject and, and taken it very seriously, including, so all the way back to the ancient Greek and Roman philosophers and writers. Yeah, it's just a fascinating thinker. Oh, he was awesome. I, you know, and again, one of the lucky things I know is amongst all you guys, you included like, I talked to people, like Karen, I love them. And like, thankfully, none of you guys have ever, no one has ever put me in a position to put me in a situation where it's like, you're going to go to jail. We talk about the hypotheticals. Dr. Thig Pen, and the time that I knew him would just be like, yo, how are you? How's your family? How is, how's Matt? How's Dave? Is there anything I can do for you? I can't do much. But what can I do? I'm here for you. And him and I would into enoc and theology. Like what we would talk about is for hours every week, we would just laugh and just talk crap and just joke with each other and just go over all these arguments and just be like, okay, we'll also keep in mind this happened with this culture. And what do you think these things were? I think the same thing I do, which is a combination of everything. I think spiritual, uh, I hate to call them extra to Russia. I've never seen evidence for it, but a combination of everything. Which is probably what it is. How did he connect that with, you know, angels, demons, other beings from ancient texts? I mean, for him and I, I think, you know, I don't want to get into that. Personally, there's an event that happened in my life to make me Catholic. I think the same thing happened with him. It happens with people and, uh, when that went when you have something like that happen, it's like, I don't want to call ontological shock. We were talking about you being allowed to go in and see a craft with your own two eyes. That wasn't made by humans. Now, you know, yeah, I mean, I think you know already, but if you saw with your own two eyes, you know, oh, yeah. So now in your life, you're going to say, I know for a fact, this is true. Yeah, I think that's where he was at. Was it just like I am and others? Do you think the NASA, do you think the UFO that you saw, wasn't ours, but was being housed by no, I think it was there. And I have, we're going to get into really sticky situations going back to the Langley Air Force base and imagery that I'm aware of and things. But, uh, I think that was a, uh, I hate to call it this almost like a tasking where I just luckily was at the right place, at the right time and saw them come around to do a scan, so to speak. Matt Brown also said that these UFOs seem to be made for purpose. Do you agree with that statement? Yes and no. I mean, the problem is is the type of technologies we're talking about when you can do 80,000 sea level and then travel 300 miles in a second. You know, why do you need to adjust tasking when you can throw something out? Um, and Matt and I, like every whistleblower role very respectful to not cross lines. Matt knows more than I do on things. Um, no doubt about it and I don't want to know. Um, maybe he knows something I don't, and theoretically it's possible. I just, when you're talking about what we're talking about with beaming thoughts and people's heads, appearing anywhere you want, active camo flaws, traveling 30,000 feet in two seconds. Um, why, why change dimensions? Why change shapes? Why do all that? You know, it's, it's like, it's like having a, uh, of God, what's the A10? It's like having an A10 and an F22 and then you have an aircraft that can do both with these. Like capabilities, but maybe I don't know. Um, why do you think people at the top of the food chain when it comes to kind of legacy aerospace rocketry, people like Elon Musk, deny the UFO truth and do you think they know anything more than what they let on publicly? 100% they know publicly. I think that Elon Musk Elon Musk has a strange thing where he cites the arrow statement, which is extraterrestrial evidence doesn't exist. Cool, Elon. What about not human? Yeah, hypothetically. Yeah, so he's kind of in the same camp almost. I don't want to call it a camp. All I'm saying is is he saying the same line? Yeah, James LeCatsky seems to talk along these lines too of like he talks about faith and what it means to be human with UFOs and so it's interesting. It's like people who walk into that room, they feel some sort of mental connection with the object. Often it feels ominous and dark. Is what I understand? I don't know. I mean, so very early on when I came forward they were very interested if I had a connection to the triangle. I said no. - Um, however an event-- - A mental connection. - Yeah, like there was a connection to the craft. - And you said no. - No, I never had it with it, but I had something else happen that made me a Catholic as a kid. - Can you say what that was? - I prefer not to right now. - Yeah. - People behind the scenes-- - Do you feel like it would muddy the waters if he did? - I think it would be unfair and I don't wanna muddy the waters. I'm very much on a true doctorial. I want the truth to be told. I want this to be done. I share my faith and my theology perspectives with people, respectfully saying, "Look, I'm not telling you this is the answer. This is an answer." - Have you experienced other general synchronicities in your life? - 100% yes. - Can you talk about any of those? - Um, you know, we talked about it the last thing I did with B.A.E. That really messed shit up. She's my language and we can't really get into that, but that kind of stuff, I mean, well, actually we can. Like just weird stuff, man. Like even the whole noise thing. Like that happens conveniently while it's happening and reality while I'm asleep. But, you know, I think back to what I was talking about. - Do you wanna tell that story or no? - Yeah, you can. You know, I put the tweet up with "World of World" with "Naws" and you have responded with the sample and one, you were responding to that. - No, I didn't respond with the sample 'cause that's a tears-for-fears sample. - Mine ran out of songs, yeah. - Yours was. - I was like, yeah, 'cause there's a song on Stillmatic, called Stillmatic. It's the first song and it's a, exactly. It's a Stacey Latisaw sample and it's like, what is it? Let me be your angel. - Yes. - And I love, I actually love the original song, which I found through "Naws," of course, 'cause it was a huge hip-hop. - Same. - And so I've commented that on your Twitter and while you were commenting that, so I wake up at like two, three a.m. on the East Coast. So I'm up and I go to bed at seven o'clock a night. I'm up at two or three in the morning doing dishes, chickens, a whole nine. So I take a nap in the afternoons every day for like an hour and while I'm asleep, I have a dream about you coming to my house to get provolone and a prosciutto. It was prosciutto, it was provolone and prosciutto. I only had mozzarella and you and I were seeing a living room and we were be seeing about music and I wake up and the very first thing I see is your response. Now again, just weird stuff, but that happened. There's other weird stuff that has happened too. That is very direct, like, I don't wanna call a prophetic dreaming, but it is. You sense when people are about to pass? - That is true, yes. - That's wild. But they have to be family or very, very, very deep friends. - And that's so crazy. - I believe that's the quantum mechanics. I think that you're entangled with them. - I do. My soul, your soul is friends or if significant other family, I think that the imprint of us changes each other and this is, I've been hunting down genetics. So I think the quantum entanglement, the human soul and genetics are all entwined. And I think that you are a flexion and not just who you are genetically, but society. Like, don't blame me what the streets made me stuff, but also who you are genetically is you. I think that your loved ones and your friends and significant others, their soul and their being impacts you. And once that happens when they disappear 'cause I felt it, that part of you that impacted, if you're in touch, you can sense it when they go to the other side. And I've seen it, yeah. - And I don't even think that's that. You know, there's a neuroscientist named Dr. Tara Swart, who does a lot of work on this. And her husband actually passed under fortunate circumstances. And then I think a bunch of doves showed up at her house. And this is like a thing. Sometimes people, especially who are terminally ill, will come up with like, you know, give me the sign that you're gonna come. - Yep. And off record, I'll tell you some of the other stuff, but it's a thing. - That's so wild. - So interesting. And when you told me you're a synchronicity around the dream you had about me, I told you you wanted it, is that? It's really trippy. So my girlfriend's a big Red Hot Chili Puppers fan. I'm a fan, but I'm a little more, you know, casual of a fan of theirs. And randomly, I had a dream about flea, the famous bassist texting me. And in my mind, he was texting me. He was like, hey, we should catch up. I don't know how I had his number, but like it was like he was interested in UFOs. You know, I was like, oh, occasionally, celebrities will reach out 'cause they're interested in UFOs. I was like, okay, maybe he's, you know, just one of these sort of, you know, people or whatever. And so I wake up and my girlfriends, you know, in the room and I'm like, he wouldn't believe it, but flea texted me in my dream. And she freaks out and she's like, no way. What'd you just say? It's a flea texted me in the dream. Yeah, you're a Red Hot Chili Puppers fan. She was like, I was just thinking about him on my walk 'cause I was wondering if he was a UFO, into UFOs. It's conscious, oh, man. I mean, they're, again, what concerns me is with this field and with remote viewing and knowing the CIA, they have a tendency to take the truth, extrapolate it to insane circumstances, publicly, to diminish the truth and they just go full into town. But it's a thing, dude, this is very real. Well, the issue with talking about mind control stuff is you, it's impossible to end the implications of that because if you can replace false memories with real ones and then the person can never know what's real and what's false, which is true. A neuroscientist named Dr. Wilder Penfield who's involved in early mind control stuff, shows that this is true in mice. I'm sure it's true in humans as well. You have all sorts of Mandela effects where people sort of remembered different pasts. The famous one being, some people in South Africa remembered Mandela passing in general in the 90s. There's no end to that conversation because then you end up with especially where there isn't physical evidence involved. Literal air pockets of consensus reality in the past. - Yeah, well, now Jesse, let's get even crazier. If you accept that time doesn't exist, outside of our reality of it, which speed and gravity prove that time can be manipulated, how do we know all of us aren't just operating in a mind control right now? And I hate to do it, but again, I'm looking at things through what are factual, what can we prove, what do I know, what is intent? - Well, there's no way to prove that that's not true. - I know. - And then you go into ancient news stories, and as well, for example, of Jin, where they'll literally change variables in reality. - Back to my weaponized interview when I said, "Call them angels, demons, or Jin." - And then you look at interpretation of quantum mechanics and Schrodinger's saying if you measure a particle in the present, it changes its past. And this idea that a lot of people who study parapsychology, by the way elite universities, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, they'll come out of these research programs and they'll say, it seems like there's a constricted present. So if you have one or a zero, it's usually a one or a zero in the present. You know, we've collapsed the present into sort of a real reality. And then you have probable futures, and then this is where it always trips people up, but probable paths. - Yes. - And it's almost like the mind is like a stylus on an LP player, and it's choosing a track, but all of the tracks exist, co-exist all at once. - They do, and then, and again, like one of the big things within Catholicism and this, everything in nature is reflected in this spiritual. So like a big thing is a conche shell, the spiral. And you get into this whole thing, and then you think about the universe, all of us are circling around a sun. And you have it happening scientifically, but where are you at in it? And unless you can scientifically get outside of it, to view it, you have no idea where you're at while it's happening. - Yeah, and it's like our, it's like there's like client and server side, and our minds are like client side. So I'm talking about computer science now, and it's almost like you're running a computation at all times. And so it's like why does you're mentioning the spirals? Why does the golden ratio and the Fibonacci sequence show up over and over again? It's as if we're in some sort of simulation. If you're building a computer program, you would reuse the same code chunks over and over again. That would be the most efficient way to build it. And I think again, we again, to really knock it deep, and I'm sure a lot of people are gonna attack me for this, but again, to touch on theology, but again, like we discussed, almost every religion known to humans, more or less believes when you boil down and this is a simulation. - Yes. And so this is what's really crazy. If you're guarding the simulation, you are controlling and guarding the exit paths. And I think about two exit paths, consciousness, and then extremely high energy physics. So nuclear, high voltage experimentation, particle accelerators. - That's the creative, that's the goal. - So, and then you get into ideas like Rubik's Cube, where you're constantly sort of growing this Petri dish that is humanity. And the way to grow humanity would be you give people things in the form of UFOs that break all known priors. So the end. This product is actually the expanded mind of the human looking at the thing. That's not incidental. This isn't some technology for our own instrumental use. This is literally a thing that breaks our brains, expands them, and might even exist at the borders of stability where things might start to get really crazy all on nuclear. These things sort of show up and it's like you're not in charge and we're going to mess with you and you're now going to become obsessed with this thing. You know, Jacques Vallet talks about that and in fact, the Trinity Test Site in New Mexico, there's a test on July of 1945 and then 20 days later, you see this crack. Communication to these. You think you're really small, no, no, look at this. So it's like the UFOs are like these instruments for social coordination and cult creation and belief systems and that's not unique to society. That also happens with the government and of course, you would disproportionately use the government in that way because they're in charge of a lot of things. Back to control systems. So if you have a control system on reality and you want to have, again, almost like a pyramid, you want humans will stack things in leaders and who is more powerful. So if you have a control system operating our entire reality, well, you would have a control system to control all of us under it, back to hypothetically agreements. And then now this is where this gets real fun back to time travel and time dilation and all of this, which is back to the hypothetical, which is, well, if time doesn't exist, are we as humans in the future manipulating ourselves to break ourselves, to put us into that position and that goes back to your interview with Ramsey and Gerb and it's all on the table, dude. I love these conversations, because this is where I'm trying, I'm trying to figure out this stuff. Well, I think the reason it hasn't been disclosed is because the number one rule of intelligence is if you don't understand something, you don't disclose it. But so like these conversations are essential, not only to life in my opinion, I think it's really important to think about these things, but like they're essential honestly to even the powers that beat, like they don't understand any of this stuff. So they need to let it out and they need to let open source information sort of flow around these things and we need to be able to hypothesize and speculate. Yeah. I think these are the most important conversations. I think if my whole thing has been, I believe people when they've experienced stuff, my issue is all I care about is truth, accountability, restitution and right back to Vanguard. That's what I'm after. And I will be there for everybody and I will be a shoulder to be there because I know this stuff will isolate you and make you feel lonely and I don't want anybody to go through what I went through or my friends or my family or the other whistleblowers, but yeah. What do you think the people who worked it Langley who are trolling Google Maps and tagging pyramids, labyrinths, all these things? What do you think they're thinking? I think some of them are like, maybe flirting with it, just like, oh, like a little signal here and there, like, oh, check out this, like, again, all of us have like, trolled. So I don't know what they're doing. It's real, but I think that they, it's just them like joking around with each other. It could be nothing, but I know it's there. So if you go on Google Maps and you go to NASA Langley, there are people who seem to be employed by intelligence agencies and other government organizations that are tagging Google Maps in that region with labyrinths and pyramids and all sorts of crazy rocks. So I screen-shoted these years ago. So one of them is this one. So here's NASA Langley hypersonic facilities complex and this is probably three years old and you can see the labyrinth clearly. Oh, yeah. It's a freaking maze. Now I screen-shoted this years ago, now if we go back over to Google Maps and we go to NASA Langley right now and you can see it, you have that photo of the building and right next to it in Google Maps is that like you can see it's clearly there. That is a screen-shot. If you go there right now and pull up the photo, they erase that photo of that labyrinth and the only photo attached to the facility is a facility itself. Can I see, can I see the maze real quick? Yeah. Cause that thing look weird. Whoa. So again, I'm not saying anything about, I'm just saying that's a real thing and somebody erased those pictures and I have pictures saved of these rocks. I have pictures saved of like pyramids and crap all over the NASA. Can I see the pyramids and the rocks? I'd have to find it. There's the rocks and that's one of the dudes who works there. I want to be careful with that. But I went and tracked these people down on LinkedIn and on Facebook and everything else and they just wild shit, like again, she works there. Whoa. And what is she posting? Look at that. I know. That's like a weird spiral, but again, all of this has been scrubbed now. I was pulling it up. I'll be took our break. All of this has been scrubbed now. So weird. Absolutely. Like here's, here's everything. There's a labyrinth. It's like codes for the outside world. What is that? It's like a black, that black night UFO from the fifties. Yeah. And again, like they tagged, they tagged all of this. It's like, here we go. Here's one. There's, there's one of the Egyptian pyramid things right there. That's tagged in under that agency at NASA Langley. They were just tagging shit and posting these wild pictures all over the NASA facility and they worked there years ago. And now all these images were scrubbed again. I don't know what it means. I just know what happened. It's that is nuts, man. Did you ever meet anybody while working there where you were like, you're on something trippy? You know more about reality than me. My old tech sergeant who I worked with, who was a loadmaster, he clearly knew something. He was very adamant. He's like, Dylan, I care about you. Don't talk about this. You will destroy your life. Really? Yeah. And then when I was at BAE, one of the older guys who worked for archives had a TSSCI and made his way to the intelligence community as a government employee. He knew way too much and he was the same way like, dude, you got to watch yourself. They don't want you around. Like I don't understand. It's like why are there such harsh kind of allergic reactions to the older guy, the way he made it sound was, there are truths that the intelligence community doesn't even want to acknowledge and that is one of them, that this subject is one of them. It's like the dirtiest of the dirty little secrets and they don't want it out. It's a bummer, man. Well, you've turned this really negative, horrible thing that's happened to you and your family into a positive with Vanguard. So you have this project with Matthew Brown and it's to protect other whistle blowers. Tell me about the project and tell people who are watching this because hopefully a lot of people watch this how they can support. Yeah, you know, we have the website up, the donation pages out there. We're still trying to keep this a little DL, you know, we really, so to be fair too and to be clear, Matt and I discussed this years ago, there are multiple people who are supporting this other whistle blowers. I don't want to name them. I want to be respectful and if they want to talk and then there's civilians. We have an incredible group of people who are just like this needs to come out. We believe in this. We want to help. I know Jeff has recently fully come on board. And I think that's okay to say Jeff, no, to Sally, okay, nice. So when we talk to other whistle blowers, like I said, I would love to name them, but I want to be respectful. I didn't have her mission. I'm acknowledging Jeff because Jeff said, I'm all in. The idea is to help whistle blowers and their families, medically, financially, spiritually, emotionally. This is traumatic, you know, you guys, we've all talked about it journalist and experiences. I don't think you make it through this without coming out the other side and having a little bit of trauma and a little bit of like what is happening around me. So the idea is we want to work within the medical community. We want to make sure people who become whistle blowers and have been whistle blowers don't lose their houses, which has happened. They don't have to move, which has happened. This isn't some get rich, quick scheme. You know, we're not Michael Schumer getting paid $30,000 a speech. We are literally trying to make sure whistle blowers kids get food. Yeah, and you know, something else, I know in the long run, you know, hopefully disclosure happens, hopefully acknowledges is true, hopefully we get legislation, hopefully get restitution and all facets. This isn't just about money, like this, when people talk about ontological shock and this is something that Matt and I and others have been trying to explain to the scientific community, the medical community is this is going to happen. And you have a group of people with Dave and all his witnesses and me and Matt and Herrera and Barbara list on you have a group of people who not only are "experiencers," but they also are whistleblowers. If you want to understand what this does to the human psyche and how to help humans, we're the perfect control group. Are we not? Like, yo, you guys not only witnessed it and were in this, you guys also stuck your neck out and said, "I'll die on the sword. Let's go." So the hope is that we can get this done and hopefully it leads to disclosure and hopefully in the interim we exist, but we really want to help out humanity and the experience or community on the back end because we're trying to help people dealing with it now while this is taboo. So that's the idea, man. It's just to help people and hopefully get them jobs and make sure they can have a safe place and, you know, I'm focusing on the past whistleblowers now. The future are like, "Hey, guys, if you come forward, we'll make sure you're protected. Here's what you need to be aware of. They're going to dox you. They're going to harass your family. They're going to pull photos. So scrub your internet history, pay for this cleaning service. Let us know if you feel safe who you want to talk to as a backup plan, Deadman Switch, basically laying the infrastructure for anyone to come forward and get them in touch, especially while Dave is working with Burleson's office, get them in touch with people to say, "We went through this and we went through this when nobody was around." I mean, this is a madhouse. It's still a wild west now. At least giving the future people an opportunity to not go through the BS we went through. So that's the idea. I love that mission, man. And I hope that, you know, in your quest to help others, you don't forget about yourself. I appreciate it. Yeah, because you went out on a limb and you landed in a rough spot. I'm sorry on behalf of the country. I think it's really whack given all you went through and all the service. Don't you want me to object? So I appreciate what you know. I love you too, man. I mean that. Especially after everything you went through to get gasoline on the service itself and then to bump into the UFO stuff and then come out and then have all and then to testify before Congress, which should be this sacred body in taking your information and acting on it. That, you know, what's funny is I will let Jeremy tell that story when the time is right is even that is a crazy story in and of itself. Interesting. Okay. Crazy story. Well, I look forward to Jeremy telling me and, man, this is gnarly, but I really do hope that you do take care of yourself because you did land in a rough spot. You weren't treated well by the country and I know you'll be vindicated. So, and I think in your lifetime. I hope so. I hope all of us are. You know, I want to say a couple of quick things is, you know, I love everybody. It means the world choking up thinking about it. Wording, contact, friends of mine in the IC. You know, they'll come up and be like, hey, you're here or whatever. I'm not. You know, I think of Dave and Matt and the rest of these guys. Like I did what I had to do. They created me. That's the irony is everybody else was like Gungho. Like, I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do. And I did the same thing. But for me, it was, I have to do this. You created this problem for me. Yeah. But it's just, it's not cool that, you know, you're living in, you know, a place where it's, you know, relatively affordable and inexpensive to live. But every time I call you, it's like, you know, I'm, I'm getting Chick-fil-A and we're leaving some leftovers out and you're, you're kind of, you have, you're, you're living very frugally and your wife and you, you have a master's degree, are both extremely qualified and you're in this like kind of, you know, what's the best way to put it? You're in the, you're in the purgatory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. That sucks. There's a lot of us in it. You know, I think only a handful of us who are in this situation publicly known made our way into positions where we are employed. The vast majority of the whistleblowers in the past, you either go into this subject and you go full tilt or your SOL. And this goes back to me being hearing, I love it and I'm so thankful to be here and your audience and everything. You know, I only want to speak when it's necessary and I have something to add and I love the fact that you gave me a platform to add this. I think all of this is important. I wanted to get out here for Vanguard and trying to make this work. You know, it's crazy. It's crazy times. Crazy times for sure. And on a light note, I know you're a hip-hop head. We were just talking about that. Who are you top five? Oh, that's easy. Amnaz jatakus. Amnaz jatakus. Andre 3000. Wow. Okay, who do I want to say for five? Oh, now we're getting fun. Oh, maybe be run. I don't know. I might go to school. I might go like way old school, but I don't know. Deep cut. Definitely the top four are locked in. But you'd go be run over biggie and two-pock and there you go. I completely two-pock number five. There you go. Okay. Amnaz jatakus. Andre two-pock. There we go. Great top five. I love it. It's a good top five. Absolutely. What's yours? What's my top five? Oh, man. Let's see. I would say Jay Z's amazing. I know he's been in the news for some not so great reason. So, you know, as an artist, he's amazing. Who else? As a producer, we were talking about. One hundred percent top producer. One draze too. As a producer. As a pure rapper, I wouldn't say him. I mean, I think rock Kim's underrated. He hits so hard. Yeah. I think biggie's amazing. I like him. Two-pock's more raw passion. I like biggie. Biggie's out the flow. I like I like I go for lyricists for me. That's where I run. Yeah. Who else? And you embarrass me with that biggie two-pock. Completely out of my mind because I'm so focused in that world. I've been listening to duels and we were talking about. Yeah, diplomat. I mean, I think Noz has got to be up there too. I mean, just because of just because of ilmatic, I mean, in so matter back to back to those two were great. And then after that, it definitely went a little downhill. I actually liked a couple of his recent albums. But he had a couple hits in there for sure. You know, you know, actually, you know what? Let me throw it. Ice Cube is an honorable master. I mentioned Ice Cube. Ice Cube has had some disgusting songs laid in his career. You know how we do it. Oh, yeah. It was a good day. He was in NWA obviously. He was amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know you're making me go back and I'm going through all these songs in my head because I've been doing classic rock and I've been doing like more like New York rap lately. Yeah. So I'm like all over the place. I've been really killing this capital city's Pink Floyd two-pock song. Breathe. It's a remix. So capital city's produced it. It's Pink Floyd breathes with two-pock breathed. Disgusting. Well, I have to listen to it. This is some like California driving down the highway convertible music. Oh, it's awesome. It sounds amazing. Oh, it's it's good. I'll get on it. Hell yeah. Dylan, I appreciate you, man. Go check out Vanguard. What's the website? Uh, it's at vanguard.org. I know Matt had thrown it up. It's on Twitter. Vanguard. I work. I so on some real stuff. We have a social media team. This goes back to support. And I want to give a shout out. Everybody give a shout out to everybody who supports us. We love you. I know a lot of you guys don't want to be known and I understand and I hope one day all of you shit. I'm going to cry again. I hope all of you guys get all the respect in the world. Yeah. And if you're out there and you have any disposable income and you really care about, you know, the story resonated with you and it's of a variety. It's not an isolation. Please donate. Agreed. And then one more quick one. If I can add to that. Yeah. Yeah. Hold the government accountable. Yeah. Hold them accountable. Definitely hold them accountable. Yeah. I mean, I don't even, there's an endless laundry list at this point too. You know, things they've done. But uh, thank you, man. Josh is going to plug right. Love you, man. You too. We're going to go chill. Yeah. Let's go chill. Oh, yeah. We need some steaks. Love you. All right. You.