"I pulled a car for 100 kilometres..." Pain is not what you think!

I like having a challenge to train for, so I got out of whiteboard and on the left side of the whiteboard I wrote distances, times and on the right side I wrote disc books. And I drew a line between 100k's and Ethan Fleming most famously known for being the only person in the world to pull a car for 100km. I just needed a way out, I was hoping maybe I could just fall over and pack my hand on the ground. So I could stop because I knew I couldn't get myself to stop. The only way I would stop is if something bad happens. No one wants to admit that they're not mentally tough. And I really like that because I look back on certain things and I'm like yeah I could have given more but what I really should be saying is I just wasn't tough enough. When you find things of doing really hard challenges can you give us three tips. So the three things? You've done some amazing things and it took to episode 11 on your podcast before you started talking about some of these things. And I'm like why is he being so humble? So we're not going to let you be humble today. Oh, all right. So yeah. So welcome to the podcast. Thanks guys. I'm very honored to be appreciated much. Very much. Well coming back to the start you had a great business that maybe not back then but like your lecturer actually told you to say to you that it just wasn't going to work. Can you bring us back to that moment of how you can? You guys are going so deep to find that. That is crazy. I assume you're talking about get going. Yeah. So, yes, when I was studying personal training, so I was a Chippie originally and I left school pretty early, you know, at your 10 TAFE came a Chippie, did that for a while, wasn't for me, ended up going down the line of personal training. And I remember the personal training person, the teacher asked me to prepare a business like they did for the whole class. And I came up with this idea mobile personal training, you know, we'll send PT's to people's homes, go down that realm and they said to me that it's never going to work. There's no chance, you know, it's a completely ridiculous idea. You're never going to get clients that way. There's nowhere to market well. But anyway, fast forward a few years, 10 years now actually we've got 40 PT's done some pretty cool things. So yeah, I guess they were wrong. Was there a drive to prove that person wrong? When I was like 20 years old, my whole drive was to prove people wrong. Like I had a really toxic relationship with growth back then, like it was definitely out of a place. When I especially when I look back on it now and hindsight, I'm like I was just pushing, pushing and pushing and pushing. And for who knows what reason back then, I just wanted to push. Like it was just maybe to prove people wrong, maybe to get myself out of like a sticky financial situation where growing up we didn't have a lot of money and that was maybe, I was glued to that. Don't really know what it was, but yeah, it was a weird time back then, like driving towards all those things. He'd reckon that. Like your formative years, build who you are and your character as you get older. And obviously during that time, if there was struggle or any of that, it just builds you to be this gritty person that's just chasing your dreams and goals. I think so. I think we definitely tell ourselves stories when we're younger that when you grow up a little bit, they're maybe built out of something that's not so much true. But the story I told myself back then was that I had to work super hard or I'm never going to make it in life. And like, you know, I've translated that to like business success. And, you know, for me, that was energy was pushed towards building a business. And then that soon turned into like pushing myself through challenges and it's, you know, it's gone round about in different ways since then. But yeah, I think the story I told myself back then is very different to the story I told myself now. But yeah, it forms those years for sure. If you had to describe your character of what you were like when you were younger, how would you describe it? Because I'm trying to get an image of if you were like a bratty kind of kid. I was very disciplined and I was like, I still am, but I was very intense, very disciplined, very selfish. That's kind of how I would describe myself. So those things worked well for me in a lot of ways and then they also didn't work well for me in a lot of other ways. So I would be very self-absorbed. It was me, me, me, me and what I wanted to be what only thing that matters and no one else, you know, and I was just so self-absorbed with what I was trying to do. And that started off with the business and then it went to challenges. And I guess now I'm still in the business and still doing challenges, but I like to think I'm less self-absorbed. But yeah, I think back then, when I say from like 16 to 21, it was just like me, all about me, you know, that shifted a lot. Did you find doing all the challenges that you've done and mind you for our viewers that don't know, like you've got six world records, Guinness World Record 5. And also four of them knocked off teams. Oh, I've got one now. But they're still, yeah, so you still broke five or six world records. Do you reckon that, you know, those four new years allowed you to, you know, you call it being selfish, but you need that discipline to be able to achieve these kinds of things. And how did you use that discipline and in, you know, driving forward in these challenges? Yeah, I think because I was so narrow focused, like being narrow focused and selfish is a pretty strong recipe for achievement because you know, I'll just work all the time and I would, whatever I was driving towards, whether it be work or the challenges, I would just bury my head in this end. Like as much as I could and give as much as I could do it. And I still do that. But you know, like I would wake up, but I was waking up like three, like three a.m. consistently at three a.m. and I would work train for sometimes four, five hours and then I would work all day and all night and then I would go to sleep and I'd just do that seven days a week for years and years and years. So yeah, I mean, like those, those things are good recipes for success for sure. But so I agree that it shapes you, but they're not some of them unhealthy too. Did you, did you look at other people that were doing similar things and did you kind of use that as a template for yourself or did you just come up with it yourself and said, you know what, if I want to achieve greatness, I'm going to have to do this. I reckon what it comes where it came from is I was, when I was like 15, 16, my parents would fight all the time, like really toxic fighting. And I was really uncomfortable at home. I just, I saw the life that I didn't want to live, you know, and like they were just doing their best. So, bit of empathy there. But I, I think for me, back then I just saw what I didn't want and I saw finances that I didn't want to be stuck with and I just wanted to do everything I could to not be in that position. So that's, it wasn't born out of this place of just like, I just want to be selfish. I was selfish because that's how I was coping. And then what's changed throughout this journey of, you know, whatever it's been like 14 years, I would say, it's now I love the journey. I love the chase. Like you find the enjoyment in the doing rather than the like attaining, right? So I think, you know, it's like anything you start, you might start running because you want to go achieve a marathon or a hundred K's. But what that gives you through that journey is worth way more than to you than the goal of what you get, right? Like what you hit. So I think back then if I go back 14 years, yeah, I was just trying to obtain stuff. I was just trying to like get myself out of something. But then now it's like, I just love the grind. It's like I just love the process of trying to learn a quiet skills or like it's just fun. Do you like reflecting on that time? Do you find that it, those, those formative years allowed you to learn all the skills that you needed to to now, now you actually, because it sounds like you enjoy every single day and doing what you do. I do reckon that, you know, what might have come out of selfishness is actually drove you to the success that you have. Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Um, yeah, undoubtedly so. Yeah. I think it gives you. Yes. Yeah, short answer is yes. Did you have much support when you were younger because in terms of like your relationships around you, it was just you and that that was it. It was just your journey and and that's what you were going to do. It comes back to what I was saying before and the story we tell ourselves right. I think the story I told myself for a long time was that I didn't have a lot of support and it was really like a lonely journey. But I think now when I reflect back on it, I definitely had a lot more support than I give credit to. But yeah, I've, you know, I've always had a mom who was willing to be there. I didn't grow up knowing my dad or anything. So I didn't have like a nice family life. That's for sure. But I have mom and she was, she was a good mom. And I had, but in the support things that I cared about was not where I really found support. And you know, I was pretty, like when I turned 14, I got a job straight away and then I had three jobs from 14 to, you know, pretty much now. And I'm still I guess running a few different jobs. So yeah, I had support. But not the support I would have liked to have and not the support that I would give my kids. But yeah, I still had support. and moving on a little bit shifting to the challenges that you've done, right? You've obviously, you know, you're upbringing and everything that happened has galvanized you into this incredibly strong world person to do challenges and things like, how did the world record chasing begin and why? What was it in you that wanted to chase these world records? - Yeah, I've actually done a lot of deep thinking about this. So I feel like I'm ready for a good answer here. But I am, it's a so cliche, I hate even saying it, it's so embarrassing saying it. But I was, I think it was 2016, I just finished doing a bodybuilding comp, the male bikini as we call it. So not actually bodybuilding, what, what, you know, 70 kilo guys go to do bodybuilding with. So I just finished up that and I won and I actually won all the divisions in it. And I think that was probably my first realization that, oh, like yeah, I'm disciplined, but this can be applicable for things in this world, you know, this health and fitness world. So then I listened to Goggan's book, yeah, as a bunch of us have, I'm sure, Ollie. Yeah. (all laughing) And I remember, actually, no, it wasn't even his book, sorry, it was a podcast he did. This was, I think it was before his book, it was really, really early on. Pre-Goggan's adoption, I would say, right? I listened to it and it was something about him running with no training and it did lit a fire in me and at the time I wasn't running at all, like at all. And I was really into weight lifting. But yeah, I just was like, okay, well, if he can do it, if he can go run 100 miles on broken legs, then, you know, what's I can do something? So I went and signed up for a marathon two weeks later, I just run it and it's like, it was horrible. I think it took me five hours, is it? It's not pretty quick. Half, actually, for my first one. That's great. That's really good. My next one was five and a half though. So I'm gonna talk about that. But yeah, I am just too-- Just too much training. Yeah, too much training. Destroyed my body, obviously, 'cause it was no prep at all. But yeah, I kind of, there was this huge shatter in the glass, like I just realized straight away. Whoa, like, holy crap. I have been telling myself, a marathon is the pinnacle of health and fitness, pinnacle of like endurance achievement. And then two weeks notice I've done it. And yeah, my body was broken, but my mental side, my limitation belief, all of that was just completely destroyed. And I think, over simplification, but from that moment on, I was addicted to that concept. If that is the ceiling, what is the next ceiling? What is the next ceiling? And I have literally spent like seven years trying to find that ceiling. And I've had moments of really intense bursts where I'm trying to find it really fast through some crazy things. And then I've had moments where I'm putting that energy into other things. But yeah, it kind of went on from there to go down the path of like, let me down a really bad no training path. And when I say no training, I don't mean not exercising, just want to make that clear, not specifically applying adaptations in a smart way for a long period of time. So I was going like, all right, I'm going to go do an Iron Man. I didn't Iron Man no training. So like no, like I was barely cycling. I think I was cycling like once a week. I just got a bike, literally just got a bike. Didn't even know what to buy. I was like, oh, just give me the try bike. Whatever, just blow my own these savings on it. Yeah, I didn't, I went into the solo, do it myself triathlon. So I just smam in the pool and then I just got out of the pool after 3.9 or whatever it was and jumped on a bike and rode around the street. I don't know. So that specific one was because I was about to get on this TV show, SAS. I don't know if you remember that TV show. Yeah, I do remember it. I got a call. I applied for another show a while ago and they said, do you want to come on this? Well, we'll have a chat with you to see if you get on. We want to talk about your fitness challenges, what you've done. And I felt like at the time I didn't have enough under me. So I just went and did that like a couple of days later on the weekend before the call. I didn't even get on the show. (laughing) But yeah, it was like a series of these different things. So they know I did like a massive cycling challenge. And then I got really addicted to like the feeling of what back what comes with it, not just what comes with like, oh, I'm breaking limitations, but like the feeling of also just like having such this big profound goal that just changes how you feel about every day. And I think that process and all the other things that come with it, just so addictive. Do you think that it's the mental adaptation that you were chasing then? Because it's like the physical adaptation, there is a very little physical. There's none. There's no physical adaptation. But the mental adaptation is huge. And I know exactly what you're talking about. Doing the last one standing challenge that was a big shift when I finished mentally thinking what's actually possible. Do you reckon that that's what you were chasing in those moments? Because you're kind of like, like it's just explained. That's the hardest thing I've ever done. And oh, no, that's the hardest thing I've ever done. And because, yeah, physically you're like, oh well, you know. For sure. And like you're chasing, you're chasing the high, you're chasing the low, you're chasing the like the focus. I think that's something that also gets left out. Like how cool is it to be so focused on something for so long and to feel so much purpose to hold something? Like that is an addictive feeling. And sometimes you get to the end of that and you're like, man, I just want that feeling back. And like whether you know it or not, you still just hunt it, don't you? Like I mean, you guys know. You know what I'm talking about? - That's what you're talking about. How do you find the load? Like we've had a lot of guests on and we've spoken about like the load after one of these challenges. Do you find it difficult or do you-- - So hard. - Yeah. - Or do you just go, I'm gonna go and pull a car for 100 hours. - 100, 100, 100. - 100, 100. - Yeah. Yeah, like I definitely find the load's difficult. I think I find it a lot easier now. 'Cause like I just, I think you guys were actually chatting about this maybe two episodes ago. I think I stumbled across it. It's like the first one I listened to and then I went back and listened to more, don't worry. But you were talking about like you were saying, I'm a runner, I'm a runner, I'm a runner, right? Which like you absolutely are. I had that kind of same thing when I was like, I'm an endurance athlete, I wanna be an endurance athlete. And I came really obsessed with that and like not just the physical side but like what does it take to be like this mentally tough athlete? And it was really addictive. But then you know, you have stuff that comes up and maybe you injure yourself and you can't do that. And then I think through that period where I broke my foot and stuff, I started like thinking about, well, not just that, I'm all these other things too. So then I started becoming more addicted to just like these other things, like business and all this other stuff. 'Cause it's just a vessel, isn't it? Like it's just a vessel to express and to chase things. And I think the part I like, I'm just waffling, but like the part I really like about endurance is the focus and the purpose. And I think that is applicable to anything. So yeah, now we're right now. It's really focused on the business. So we can survive. But yeah, anyway, I've lost what you said anyway. - How did you break your foot? - What did I was doing? I was, I went straight to 130 K weeks from not running. It was stupid. Yeah, so stupid. Never having had a good track record with running, I'm not gonna lie. I was training for an adventure race. Like you know, there's 24 hour adventure race things. I did one of those. And then after that, I started training for, I was gonna, I had this idea I wanted to do, you know, Goggle was challenged four by four by 48. - Yeah. - I wanted to do it for seven days. So I had this like, big idea. And a lot of the time with these challenges, especially through the first few years, I would just, if I came up with it, I wouldn't even let myself think about it. I'd put it out into the universe. And I'd, which is the 2026 version of the universe, the social media. So I put it out on Instagram. I'm doing this challenge. Well, go and try and do it. And even if I didn't know if I could do it. And sometimes I'd set it like 12 weeks ahead. And I'd just try and do it. And that's what happened with this. I think I just started running straight away because I already had the discipline. I was already training all the time. So I just redirected it to running, but running's not like riding a bike. Running's not like all these other things. You can overdo it so quickly. And I'm like, I definitely do not want this to be an anthem of just go do not train for something. That's not what I'm trying to project. But I think that, tell you what, if you want to experience mental toughness experience, go not train for something and do it. Because bloody hell, you're sealing pretty quick. - For someone who's like really addicted and has that addictive feeling towards doing hard things and that purpose and drive to do something and then breaking your foot and not being able to do that, how did you manage that? Like, and you see that feeling. - Oh, I'm not. - I'm terrible. - I see. - I think I seen the video. - Is that when you broke your foot? - Yeah, it was around that time. I had like, I had this, I had to, they broke the foot and then I tore my calf and I just was having, I was like, no, so I have to do something. I enjoy the process. So I went and did dips. So I put it in like a three month training block and just did dips like three, four days a week and then I did, and then I'm doing like 6,000 in, well, supposed to be 24 hours, but I had a complete wall around like 14 hours. I couldn't do a single rep and I had like pure muscular failure, screaming, trying to do one rep. So yeah, to answer your question, what do I do? Transition to something else, I guess. You mentioned that obviously doing these things just, two weeks out, no training is probably not the smartest way to do things. - No, definitely not. - But a lot of people would dream of being able to run 100Ks, but to pull a car for 100Ks, how did that come about? And I know that you trained for this one. - I did, I did. - I don't think you can just turn it off. up in Policar for 100k. There's definitely been some challenges that I've put solid training blocks in. One of the things before I get to that, I think one of the things I really enjoy about transitioning is because when you transition to a new discipline, be it running, cycling, whatever, there's just so many different experiences you get with and so many different learnings. So yeah, I think that's why I was hopping. I was like, oh, I like this. I want to go try this. I want to go try triathlon. I want to go try cycling long distance or, you know, so when I found the car, how I came up with that is that, you know, I went through my kind of cycle where I do a challenge, have a bit of a lull or just have some time off it, just enjoy training again. And then I was like, I want another challenge. I want something I like having a challenge to train for. So I got out a whiteboard literally and on the left side of the whiteboard, I wrote distances, times. And on the right side, I wrote disciplines. So like 24 hours, burpees or 100 kilometers this and I drew a line between 100 Ks and a car. And I thought, you know what, that's the one. And for me, what I was looking for is I really wanted something that I didn't know if I could do. That was really important to me because I wanted a challenge that was going to have to force me to like get really out of my comfort zone. So yeah, when I put those two together, I was like, okay, this is scary. Yeah, I genuinely don't know if I can do this. So you know, game one, let's go. So how do you actually train for it? Yeah. Yeah. So it's not like this is no joke. Like pulling a car for 100 Ks like, how do you actually, I don't think anyone's ever done it. No, I didn't even done it. No, no, so it was a world's first and it's still no one's done it. No one's stupid enough. It was actually post, well, it was during COVID, I was training for it. So I remember I was having to deal with all the lockdowns. So I wasn't allowed to go out. I don't remember the curfew in Melbourne, like we had curfews. I had to break the curfew, be this naughty boy going out, dragging my sled in the park. So yeah, I got a sled, like, you know, the, I don't know, push the prowler sleds. I just tied rope to it in a harness. There's like a strong man harness. And I would just walk around the oval for hours and hours and hours and hours. I can't tell you how many hours I spend dragging a sled in the park. And it was so fun to train for for some parts, obviously other parts are horrible, but like I would just watch movies after movies after movies. And I'll tell you what Tim, you can't do that running because I could watch like, I've watched like every Netflix buddy show there was because yeah, pulling the sled because you just so slow. But yeah, that's pretty much how I train for it was just like every day was for most days. And I had a big strength block in there as well. So I was training like two to three times a week strength. And that like started a lot higher. And then as obviously it's closer to the event, you specify and I was doing a lot more sled work. I only dragged a car, I think twice before I did it, which was so stupid, but it was COVID, it was really difficult to do it. You just remember COVID everyone was out. Like it was so busy in the parks and everything. So yeah. For a world record that no one's ever set before, how did you go about doing it? If no one said it, did you have to set it yourself for the year? Yeah. So there was sorry to cut you off, but so Ross, Edgley did the marathon with the car and I was really inspired by Ross's challenges that he did. And I think he was probably one of the early influences for me in this space. Like I was listening to some of his stuff and I was really liked what he was doing. And I think I probably took a little bit from him doing the car marathon. And I was like, I want to do that as well, but I want to do 100 Ks, whatever. So I went and applied and Guinness was like, you know, you got to use a two ton car, not a 1.4 ton car. I was like, but Ross used a 1.4 ton car. And they're like, no, it's this is the rule. Like if you want to do this, you've got to use a two ton car. It's like, that's so heavy. So I had a Jeep at the time, which I went and got it weighed, it weighed like 2.2 something because it had, you know, lift kit and all the ego to see things you have. And yeah, so I stripped out all the stuff, got it to two tons and that was pretty much it. Like Guinness, if you haven't broke, if the record doesn't stand and you want to create it, Guinness doesn't say, hey, yeah, just go take some like little weak effort. They'll just set what they think. They actually set something that was just like the, I just didn't even know if I could do it. And they gave me like 60 hours. And I was like, I don't even know if I can do it in 60 hours, but life gives you lemons, right? Like what are you supposed to do? No, no, if I'm really interesting about you is that when you're training, you describe it as like you're very happy. And although the time athletes really struggle during training to get through hard moments and it doesn't seem like that with you, but are there hard moments in training that will you just like, I don't get out there. It's like I feel like, I feel like it's kind of been set from a young age. If you're getting up at 3 AM each morning and now do you feel like it's hard because it's like you look back and say, oh, I did that when I was young. I should be able to do it now. Yeah, I mean, there's a few parts to that. So back then, I like don't, there's no under no world should we think that I just like every day was easy or that no, of course not. But comparatively to now, this is the hardest I've ever found training in my life because I am not working towards this crazy fitness goal. I think it's a lot harder to just train like for me, I'm finding it a lot harder personally to just get out and train every day than it was to drag a sled four hours around a cold park at 3 AM. And I think that's like, you know, the whole, you know, any man with a y can in a strong y can enjoy any how and it's like back then there's when I was doing those challenges, or when I have a challenge to go towards, it becomes pretty easy to focus and to enjoy things because you just remove that whole like negative connotation to it, right? You can maintenance is not enough of a wise it. Yeah, I mean, it's like, I mean, you probably have this as well, right? Like when you're running huge, have a huge running goal and you're putting in these big weeks, sometimes feeling like going for a 3 K run just doesn't hit the spot the way it does other things can, right? Yeah, I went for a 7 K run before his podcast and I'm like, yeah, it just doesn't, well, I was running 80 last week. So it's, yeah, I can, yeah, I can definitely sympathise that. Yeah, I think I mean, like I definitely was like, especially at that point in time when I was doing the car thing, like I was pretty obsessed. Like I'm an obsessive guy anyway. The only reason I'm talking about it, like it was back then and back now or now and like, the obsession still there, I just, it's right now it's in work. So it's like when I'm talking about these challenges, it almost does feel a bit like foreign. It feels like, oh, that was past me. I wasn't like the dips was only a year and a half ago. But yeah, that energy just channeled somewhere else right now. Yeah. With Guinness, when you sent off your little request, do you think that they had like a little round table and you obviously put forward to them what you wanted to do? Do you reckon they just kind of had a bit of a giggle and said, you know, we'll make him do this, this and this? I have no idea. I actually really am so intrigued with how they have it set up because like I was thinking as well, like I uploaded like terabytes of footage of me dragging a car. Did someone actually go through that and watch a hundred? I don't know how long it takes to go through the Harrys challenges like someone watching all of that. So you have to provide proof as well. Yeah, yeah, you got to, I had to pay, I paid someone like 1.8 grand to go measure Avalon Airport and they had to measure Avalon Airport. Yeah. And like they went out with a little like, I don't know, some measuring stick. Why, whatever that, you know, something to measure and they measured the course and I think it was a perfect like 5K loop and then yeah, we just did an Avalon Airport, which I mean, in that, that in itself was such a wild thing that we stumbled across, being able to do it at Avalon Airport because during COVID, the airports were shut down. So I was emailing different places like, hey, you know, can direct and I can drag my car there for a couple of days is better all right. And then Avalon just emailed back saying, yeah, let's do it. It's crazy. So what did the actual whole process look like? Were you allowed to sleep, had eating work or was it just constant? It was pretty much the whole time. Like I was struggling to even make the cut off. Like I thought I wasn't going to make the cut off. From the moment I started dragging it, I was like, no, I'm not going to be able to do this. And that was really, really hard mentally because like I just genuinely believe from the bottom of my soul that I was not going to be able to finish it. But then there's all these people here supporting me like, I don't want to let them down and I don't want to let myself down. So I'm just going to fake it for a while until it's long enough. And then I think through doing it, I started to like get a little bit better. The heat went down because it was really bad weather because like the tarmac with the heat just coming off. It was just horrible. But yeah, it was just the whole time dragging a car. And we had really bad weather. Like if you actually look up the date, you'll see it on the news of the weather. There was like thunderstorms, lightning storms. They had 100k winds. There's actually videos of me trying to drag the car. And the wind is pushing the car back like it's so far on. And we had the opposite. They're having car headwinds and car tailwinds. It was hilarious. Like if we had a good tailwind, it was like, let's go. Let's go. Like we can drag this car right now. But then you get a headwind. You're sitting there. Absolute redlining. 10 RPE. You're just trying to move this car and it wouldn't move. Is there a specific memorable moment in time during that event where you were like, no. Yeah. It's over. Like you were talking to everyone. It's like, no, let's just take this off me. I'm over. Let's go home. I'm sleeping. Yeah. So you guys met Ash, right? Yeah. So Ash was on my crew and bless him. He's the best. He's the best operations crew member. But he's. doesn't fill you with a lot of hope. I remember the first two hours he was saying, based on this, you're not gonna make it. I was like, God, thanks man, I've got potentially two days ahead of me. That's the last thing I need to hear right now. But I had really gone on my head and I was just, I was actually considering, which sounds pretty bad to say it out loud, but considering trying to, I just needed a way out. I was hoping maybe I could just fall over and crack my head on the ground so I could stop. Because I knew I couldn't get myself to stop. The only way I would stop is if something bad happened. That's how bad I was spiraling. But you know, it's like-- - And that was early on. - And there was like a couple of hours in. It's like getting to your first, but I mean, it must be the similar to you. If you're saying to yourself, I'm gonna go do a hundred hours at Sydney Backyard Ultra. And if you feel a niggle at three hours, it would be so easy to spiral. And I think it's the same concept in that. I just had these niggles. I just had to work through them. What was the mental shift to keep going? Like what did you do? 'Cause obviously everyone's looking at you. You're saying that you're gonna do this challenge. Like what was it that you kind of said to yourself, you know what, I can't crack my head on this concrete and you know, call it a day? - I don't know. I think there was like multiple moments throughout it. That was the most pivotal of, okay, yeah, I needed out here. But I reckon I had seven, 10 more moments like that where I was like, I can't do this, I can't do this. I'm not gonna be able to do this. And you just kind of hold on long enough to those feelings to pass. And when they pass, you're like, you know what, maybe this is all right. I can do this. I'm the man around here. Let's go. And then oh, two hours later, we got, you know, this is horrible. Why am I here? What is it? And that's just part of the game. And then when it finishes, I'm like, that was good. You know, but when you're in it, it doesn't feel too good, does it? - All right. Is it the case of not wanting to disappoint others around you or is it yourself, more so? - I think it's probably more intrinsic for me. Yeah, like I don't, no one's forcing me to do these things and I sure as hell don't get any, but like rewards from them. And I'm not, you know, I'm not an athlete. I don't get a first place trophy. And yeah, like the Guinness World Record things like a nice touch. But no, it's definitely intrinsic. And I think I really care about how I feel about myself. Like it's an important thing to me. I think it should be to everyone. Like I have to look at myself in the mirror and I think that my definition of failure has never been like not hitting something. It's knowing that I left it all out there in every way, shape and form and life. And I don't, that is the worst thing that could happen to me in that moment. Like if I gave up and I had to relive that every day, and I actually know that feeling because I've had it, I've given up before in challenges. And there's been challenges where I like, I did a 24 hour ride. It still haunts me. I went home and slept. And then I rode again in the morning a little bit. And it just irks me. Because I know I had more and I know I gave up on myself. So I think it's more trying to avoid that. Do you think that that moment that, there's like, with backyard ultras with me, it's like there's three things. There's like, there's death, taxes and backyard ultras. Yeah, correct. Yeah, yeah. It's always backyard ultras regret. And do you find it that that moment, because it's very hard to reconcile. I find it very hard to reconcile when I quit at something or DNF, but trying to understand that in that moment, you may have actually given it everything you had in that moment. It's very easy later on because you're no longer in that state of mind. So yeah, and do you get what I'm saying? I 100% can't what you're saying. It's like, yeah, I think about that a lot with backyard ultras. I haven't done a backyard ultrasound, but like it is guaranteed to have that. Which is just wild to me. But I completely understand what you're saying. And you're right. At the end of the day, you did give up, which means you did give everything you had, because if you didn't, if you gave more, you would have still been going. Like, it just doesn't make sense. It's just redundant. Yeah, I often say that to people that are struggling maybe with the DNF or anything like that. It's like, yeah, it's very easy to sit there on the couch eating ice cream and watching Netflix because you're not actually going up a hill at Megasaur and dying, you know? Yeah, you know what? You said something, maybe in one of the podcasts I listened to, you said, no one wants to admit that they're not mentally tough. And I really liked that because I look back on certain things and I'm like, yeah, I could have given more, but what I really should be saying is like, I just wasn't tough enough in that moment. Like I wasn't. And that's okay as well. That's fine. It's all part of the journey. That's what makes it so much fun. It's like having these like peaks and troughs and failures and stuff. From your findings of doing really hard challenges, can you give us like three tips to help people to get more mentally tough? Yeah, so three biggest things. I mean, look, I don't want to, especially with bloody Tim's in here right next to me. Well, the toughest guy I'm playing. I think I'm a big dad. That's a full of guard for 100k. Yeah. I haven't pulled a car for 100k. I haven't done how many burpees did you do? I know what you're saying, but look, I definitely found a lot of like my background's coaching, right? Like I started at 21 coaching and I've always got a lot out of trying to help people get more out of themselves. And you know, it started off like we still have the coaching business today. But the reason I say that is I became really fascinated in the mental toughness side. And that's something that I got really addicted to through this process. It's like, how can I actually like hack it a little bit? For like what's the science behind this? And I know there's like, you can't teach mental toughness, blah, blah, blah. I think you can still have tools and there's still tools you can rely upon. So the three things, I don't know what the three are, but I'll give you what I definitely like. I really like the distinction between pain and suffering. That's something I think about all the time. And for anyone that wants to know the way it kind of I like to think about it is pain is a sensation of feeling you have, you hurt your knee, your foot hurts, blisters, whatever. Suffering is what we attach to that pain. And the thing is, it's like suffering is optional. And obviously it doesn't feel optional. And it's really hard to ignore that. But it is a choice. So I think that reminding myself that I'm implying my own suffering when I'm in this hard spot gives me a lot of like, okay, I'm doing this myself. So an example would that be suffering in the car would be, okay, oh, what if I can't do it? What if, you know, like I'm, like people are going to think that I said this and I can't do it now. And they're, oh, well, you know, I'm not going to make the cut like that's suffering. Like I'm applying all this tension, all this unnecessary, you know, friction to what I'm doing. I think remembering that they're two separate things is really helpful. So next time you're running, you're like, oh, my foot hurts. I'm really weak and I shouldn't run because like, that's, that's, that's, it's a bunch of other things and that example, but you get what I mean with that. Yeah. I think it's really important to remember the difference. Do you think the suffering often people quit because they've had enough of the suffering? So, and I've mentioned this before, it's as if the suffering doesn't get worse. It's almost the same. It's just your tolerance to being able to go, okay, I've suffered for long enough. And it's, but if you're actually able to reflect and say, hang on, I've actually been, the pain hasn't got worse. This thing hasn't got worse. It's just I am sick of this thing. So it's almost like a time being more so than an actual scale of pain or suffering. But the suffering doesn't get worse. It's just that you've had enough of it. Yeah. I mean, more people quit their races from their slow niggle that tears away at them over hours and hours versus that I rolled my ankle, don't they? Yeah. Like it's, it's from that, like exactly what you're saying. You just get fatigued. And especially when you're tired, oh God, how is horrible is it when you just haven't had any sleep and that little niggle that you've got? It's just in the back of your mind that whole of time. Like it's, yeah, it's horrible. You think a nutrition plays a big part in that as well, keeping your brain health going well during a challenge so that you're making good decisions because often things fall apart when things are falling apart for me. It's been the decisions I'm making emotionally and the brain's tired. It might not have the right chemistry going on in there. Do you find that that's part of the reason as well? Yeah, for sleep, for sure. I think, I mean, like nutrition definitely, like in the sense that, yeah, if you're eating bad and stuff, it can absolutely play a part. But I think for me personally, I mean, you look at, if you have, have an argument with someone, it's usually under like a high stress environment or it's tired or someone's grumpy. So you think about like ultra racing or, you know, ultra endurance, you're exhausted. Simple thing like something in your shoe or a pain, it's blown out of proportion. Like, so yeah, it's, if you're, if you have a good sleep, if you can get like, those points of being able to recover from a rest perspective, then those small suffering things or large suffering things that don't have to be, they can, you can make the right decision at the time. So yeah, I think I think something that I do now is like through my challenges, if it's a 24 hour challenge, I'm okay with having a 20 minute nap. Like, I think it's important for me where I never used to like, I went on to start, like, you just got to go to the end. But now I realize that most of the time I pull out or I really like drop off into challenge around like our 15, 16, if I just have a 20 minute nap, I'm back, you know, simplification. But, you know, I, I make, I'm not going to pull out of the challenge. I'm not going to let that suffering take control and then lose the battle. For people who don't know, hardcore harries is very well known for live streaming and doing challenges. Is this part of your idea? Are you like wrapping all the boys into doing push ups, 10,000 push ups, climbs of the King of the Hill? Like, is that you trying to instill your own personality onto them and doing hard things? I think that, yeah, I mean, there's parts, there's parts of that, but there's something about the boys is like, yeah, they might not do like Ash take Ash for example. He may not go out there and do these direct 24 hour challenges, but the man pushes himself flat out, right? So we all have a love for the push and we all have a love for taking on these challenges, mind just happened to be ultra endurance. So yeah, like, but we definitely, this, this, this carries is born out of this in the sense that like we love doing these things. Like Sam's run, I've seen Sam run 100k is off like nothing, like the guys are, like he loves pushing himself. So yeah, we love doing this stuff and those boys have screwed me like heaps my challenges and we've, oh yeah, I guess we just wanted to, we just turned it into a business and that's pretty much how, how it did start. Like it wasn't, it wasn't like, oh, I did a challenge and like let's take Ethan's challenges and do this. It wasn't like that. It was more like we love pushing ourselves. We love what challenges do for us. How can we do that for other people? And it didn't start off with like app challenges or anything like that. We just said, oh, let's put on a fitness challenge and we were like, oh, let's host like a ultra race or a run and then Sam suggested, let's go do a Albert Park 24 hours and because like we're still a bit nuts, don't get me wrong. So we were like our first challenge, like, oh, it's you 24 hours around Albert Park. You know, that's sick. Everyone's going to love that. And then I was like, what if we put a heel in it? And then Sam's like, yeah, but then people went and we just halved the distance. And I don't know if I've ever told this publicly before, but do you know how we arrived at 3.2 Ks for King of the Hill originally? I thought, let's do half of the backyard ultra distance. Backyard ultra distance is 6.7. I didn't even know the distance. Like we ran an ultra route. I didn't even know what a backyard ultra distance was as wild. But do you think doing challenges that like there's no rules? There's doing something that's never been done before. There's no rules to it. I reckon that doing it in that way and not looking at, you know, what's going on, it allows you to just to push so far in that one direction instead of going, oh, these preconceived rules about how I've got to run an event or a business or a challenge. And because you don't look outward in that way, it allows you to create these epic challenges and not only for yourself, but for the community of even Harry's. I think it is. Yes, I definitely. I think there is a recipe here that we have, which we definitely just have in us, which is that we have an extremely high risk tolerance. And we're extremely quick to make decisions. Now, if you look at what that would look like from a fitness event or a challenge, it's like, oh, what if we just did this? All right, let's do it. Bang. So I think where people, you know, other people who aren't taking on fitness challenges, for example, they will analysis paralysis, right? They'll go and like, oh, if I run this and if my pace is this and I do this and then they start to freak themselves out and they're like, oh, I'm not capable right now. I need a two year training prep and $500 shoes or something where we're just kind of like almost a little bit ignorant and like the ignorance is a bit of bliss. So it's allowed us to kind of go, oh, let's, let's do this. And like, you know, if you look at King of the Hill, for example, if we thought about that for ages and we planned it out and if I knew what I knew now, I, oh my God, it would be way too hard, right? But we just kind of like, we're like, yeah, we can do that. Can we do it? Yeah, probably. But yeah, let's do it. And let's work it out on the way. And that all three of us, like Ash said with myself, we've had that for, we've been business partners since that was 21. So like we've just been rocking that for 10 years. It sounds like you make decisions from your intuition. Yeah. So and obviously that, that's probably one part of our human experience that makes really good decisions. You just have this gut feeling and you follow it. And then soon as you start thinking about it too much, that's when I think that that's what you're kind of alluding to there that you start thinking about it. And then all the reasons come up, the excuses come up and then you don't follow through. Yeah. For sure. I mean, I mean, I'd be very valid reasons like it's, you know, there's some real considerations to think about when you start a business or trying to take on a crazy fit in a challenge. Like, there's real things you should probably think about them. Just don't let them get in the way of actually doing it. That's all. Where do you draw the line with these challenges? Is there a line drawn to that's two for long or let's just keep pushing that line for me or for other people just just everyone for you, everyone else like where would you draw that line? I don't want to get injured. I've been injured now. It's really important to me because I had a really long road with breaking my foot and I didn't like it. So I don't want that again. So for me, where do I draw the line? I draw the line where I'm not going to get ridiculously injured. And that comes from, hey, if I'm going to set myself a goal, I'm going to work towards it properly. I mean, like even just a little thing like the, I was supposed to go do the weighted vest run, right? Old me. I would have strapped that vest on. Sorry. For context for anyone listening to this, I was going to wear a weighted vest and try and run 100 case. That was the next challenge. That was the thing I wanted to do. I started loading up my volume. It wasn't just 100 case for context. It was called Buffalo Stampede and it was running up Mount Buffalo and back, which is one of the naliest mountain races in Victoria. Thanks, Tim. And yeah, like I was training for it. And I was, I just, honestly, I just kept hitting walls and I just kept having problems with my feet and I just can't seem to shake whatever's going on with my shin splints and my feet. So I just had to make the call like I can either go do this and I still genuinely think I could do it. I might not make the cut off. I would believe in myself enough to get it done. But I don't want to do that and hurt myself and be out for nine months or a year like I was two years ago. So I think that's where I draw the line now is like, yeah, you can still go out and push yourself, but just know that it does come at a cost and you have to be willing to pay that price sometimes. And I'm not willing to pay certain prices anymore like I was. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to still go do challenges. I'm just going to put a solid prep timing. Yeah. I suppose the time as well to do that and you know, obviously with Harries, creating challenges for others, you often find that you probably don't have those that time for challenges for yourself anymore. Oh man, this is actually like such a sore spot in my life right now because I'm still training, but like for me, training every day for a little bit doesn't feel the same for me. So I'm like, ah, do I go out and train and do this challenge because it's important to me, but also I want to go do this business that's really, really, really important to me right now. But then if I don't go to the training, I'm like, I'm not even representing the values of the business because like, you know, like Harries is all about like pushing yourself and it's all about like getting after and doing these things. I know your resume is pretty impressive with what you've done. I don't think you need to, yeah, keep pushing. But I was going to say like when you set these challenges in the Harries challenges, do like when you see people like knock on over these challenges, do you see them and go, oh yeah, I remember what that felt like and you kind of feel that energy off these people. So when you're creating all these other like when you keep creating these challenges, does that inspire you to find more weed ways of challenging people? Because just like you found with yourself. Yeah, it's honestly been one of the most beautiful thing about Harries is seeing, yeah, seeing I think for me personally, seeing someone that I know doesn't push themselves, then find something in pushing themselves. And like don't be wrong Tim, I love what you're doing. I love you pushing yourself. You inspire me too. But that that's like, I already know you got it. I already know you found it, you know, but seeing someone else find it is so it's so amazing to see. And what I mean by that is like, you know, someone might go out and run and not think they can do a marathon. A challenge maybe pushes them to do something close to that. And they're like, whoa, I'm now capable of this. And that's for me like at its core, that's what Harries is about is pushing people to do challenges and like find their own limits. And like limits is subjective, right? Like your limit is going to be ridiculously, I don't even want to touch it in running, right? But for someone else, their limits running 10k. And like you still arguably get the same positive experience for you running 100k's then they get at 10k's. So it's all relative. Something to start with me that you keep referring back to is these limits and that how you want to keep pushing them and you want others to keep pushing them. What's your opinion on people who are too scared to get to that point, to push that limit even further? Like what would you say to them? It's a good question actually. You've stumped me a little bit. I don't, I'm not quite sure. I think that it's just a very beautiful thing to overcome what you thought was not possible and then realizing that it is possible. And I think that all I can do in my line of this work is try and put people in the environment where they might do that. And I think that's one of the cool things about some of these challenges is that you might accidentally realize you're more capable than you thought. But sometimes people don't even make the active decision to go, I'm going to push my limits. They might be like, I'm just going to go participate in this challenge. We actually have one of the guys doing last one standing. literally barely ran, got to day 30 something, right? Which is bloody crazy. Like, that's, you know, it's run 21, 22, 23, 24 Ks. Yeah, and like, I spoke to him and I was like, I had you go, I had you find it. It's like, yeah, honestly, I just my first time running. I was like, what? And he doesn't even realize what he's just achieved. So like those moments, like for us, like when we're in the, I'm telling you, when we're in the office and we see like we, like you doing 83 days, for example, every day is like a light to fire under us. Like the amount of inspiration it gives me to work. Like I can wake up at 3 AM to just work 'cause when you're doing stuff like that. And also for what you're doing, like that inspires so many people, the amount of people that, what you do, it stretches so much further than you think. And I think, you know, like you've fired me up a little bit. And I think it's just, it's such a beautiful thing. Yeah. We talk about that feeling. We love the feeling. It's that moment. And I have a visual of it. So you know parkram. Yeah, everyone knows parkram. Well, silly questions. Never been. Never been. So I was running with a mate. And I think back to this moment, every single time when we talk about pushing past that limit that you thought wasn't possible. And he stopped at halfway because he wanted to go sub 20. Wasn't going to go sub 20. But regardless, he kept on going after the, after the fact that he stopped and after he told me, he's like, no, you keep running ahead. I won't be out of the cup. Keep up with you. And he still kept up. So I just think that point. And I look at it from a third person point of view. I just think that what is he actually thinking there? And it's like you said, it's a beautiful feeling. And it's the best feeling ever. Like maybe not in the moment, but looking back on it, it's just it's something that everybody has to experience. It is a very amazing thing. And I just hope more people get to experience it. It's something that's got to be earned. Yeah. And I think that there's no, there's actually no tangible value or monetary value so that you can put on an experience like that either. People were asking me, oh, you know, what did you win from the last one standing challenge? And all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, oh man, if you only knew, if you only knew what happened to me inside and up here, it's just, it's, it's an amazing feeling. And often, I often, people don't even see it. And like you would, you would see these people and you can see that because you've helped, you've felt it and you're looking at these people, even a king of the hill, you would have seen people crossing the line after five laps or 10 laps or whatever. And you can see the look on their face. It's just, it's so amazing in that. For sure. It is so amazing. It is so amazing. Honestly, like I could almost bring a teardom to my eye with how beautiful it actually is. Like Katie, I just think about Katie Washington, how she like crossed that line, she was crying. And I'm like, God, I'm so jealous. I didn't get to have that feeling right now. You know, like it is just so awesome to see. Yeah, it's just so powerful. I mean, like I haven't really been able to work out truly. Like what is it? Like is it the feeling of, I don't know, for filming, like you've done something hard. Like, well, what is it super intrinsically for that person that makes it go, wow, that was so amazing? Like do you know for yourself? I think it's the overcoming. Like I have a one-sided this race called Two Days and it's 56 Ks. It's not the hardest race going around. But I had a really bad day out there. And I remember the last few Ks and it's almost, it's being proud of the person that got you to that moment. Even though that you know it was you, but once you've crossed that threshold, you look back and go, and I remember I had teased my eyes and I'm like, oh man, I'm so proud of you. Like, and it's like, who are you talking to? Like who, which person? And it's like you're talking to your previous self that did the work because you're proud of them because they suffered for you to be able to achieve this amazing thing at the end. I think that there's, yeah, there's something. I like that. If you haven't had a leaf as well, isn't it? Yeah. Oh my God, my God. He's saying, I'm sick of running on this sand. But yeah, if you had to take a guess, not from what Daj just said about how that feeling actually evolves and what it is, what would you say? Oh, well, now you've given me the best one, everything after this. No, no, no. It's open because I think it's, yeah, it's really open. No. I do, I do think there is like this emotional relief that comes with it, but I think it is like, at its deepest level, it's just proud, isn't it? You just end, whether you're not like, oh, I'm really proud. I think that that feeling they have is just they're so proud of themselves, whether they know it or not. It's like a deep intrinsic proudness. You could also be, because they actually didn't think that they were going to complete the thing too. Yeah. And then completing that thing because somewhere in during that process, there was a moment where you said, I can't do this, I quit. And then you kept on going and then you've, then you realize, I'll hang on, that was the moment. That was the moment. That's what happened to me on birthday 66 in the challenge. So I quit, I've had enough. And then later on you reflect and go, I didn't quit. I broke a limit. And then I don't know if you know what day 66 is. No, yeah, I heard. I told you, I selfishly listened to all the time. Have you had a day 66? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Describe the whole day for us, honestly. There's actually a pivotal moment I think about when I think about like being broken down. And that was the time I rode a bike from Adelaide to Melbourne. So I was doing this thing called Drain Every Drop. It was like a little segment I was running on my socials. Early on, and I was like trying to do these things weekly. And they let me down some really weird paths. So I would go one week, I would do like a little burpee challenge, like a really small one, not the one you'll think you have. Then I would do like, I did a kayak where I tried to stay 24 hours on a kayak failed. But it let me down this path to go ride from Adelaide to Melbourne. So I packed a bag, I brought a t-shirt, like I kid you not. I bought, I had the bike, I flew it over to Adelaide. I had a bag, I had a little sleeping bag in it. I had like, did a bit of a merlin here, right? How old were you? This was a year ago. Years ago. Sounds like something the 13 year old would do to get a little backpack and go for a ride. Yeah, I was like, I don't know, it would have been six, six years ago, maybe seven years ago. Maybe less, I don't know, somewhere in that range. But yeah, I packed the bag, I had like your little phone mat and this was like pre-arm, pre-like anything like, I don't know what I was doing. And I just started riding back and I got to like day 66 on day two. And I just, I called Chelsea, a partner and I was like, I can't do this anymore. I don't think, no, it must not be in six years ago. Anyway, I called Chelsea and I was like, I can't do this anymore. This is not for me. I'm gonna get, I'm gonna catch a bus home. So I sat there at the bus stop and cried. I was just sitting there crying at a bus stop 'cause I just couldn't do it. Bus throw straight past me. So I just had to literally get on the bike and yeah, I just started riding back and I love to say that it was this big success story. I got to, I got further back. I got to Victoria, Melbourne and then I caught a train and got Chelsea pick me up. I didn't even make it back home because I was just so broken. And I actually stuck with me massively and a big part of that learning was realizing that I didn't care about it at all. And since then, I will not enter a challenge until I have like fully understood why I'm doing this and what it means to me. And that doesn't necessarily mean like the reward I get from it or anything. Like truly intrinsically, what is it about this that is important to me? Like how do I want to show up as a human? Why does this matter? Like, 'cause that challenge, I had none of that. And I was broken the whole time. I hated every second of it. I was crying half the time, like sitting there on a bike, sobbing like on the way back 'cause I just couldn't do it anymore. Does that purpose for the challenge vary for each one? Is it different each time? It's actually boy, you guys a book. So it's part of your bed in it by the next week challenge. So, but yeah, it does, it doesn't vary as much these days because I think intrinsically I understand why I do it. And for me, it's like, it's got nothing to do with whatever I'm doing for whatever. Like Guinness World Record, any of that, who cares? It's not about that. For the library, do it. I like it 'cause me is human, my value system. I like pushing my limits. I like being creative. I like doing what I said I would do. I like all of these different things that makes me me and doing a challenge as an expression of that. And I understand that. So when I'm doing the challenge, just like I'm doing what I said I would want it to do. It's got, I hear a living it. This is what it's about. So I don't need to be like, and back then when I was doing stuff, it was like, I need to like, I don't think I knew this at the time, but I think when I look back on, I'm like, oh, I'm proving something. At the time, I didn't think that, right? When I look back on it now, that's probably what I was doing. But now it's like, I literally, like if you said to me, hey, we're gonna go do this challenge and it's gonna take three days, it's gonna be horrible. I'll be like, hell yeah, what an experience we get to have to get. I can't wait to cry with you. Like it's, you know, that's the fun of it. That's the exciting part. And when it gets really hard, obviously I also have moments where I want to quit and everything. It's naturally you do. But what will get me through it will be like, to chose this. This is what you do. This is what you want to do. So why are you bitching about it to put it bluntly? And I think that intrinsic value system, and that comes back to what we're saying before, like the clearer the wider is the other how. So I think, that the bike one really taught me that I had no why and I was doing it to prove a point for social media because it was a weekly segment and I was just doing it. Like yeah, there's element of enjoyment and stuff, whatever experience. But yeah, after that, I was like never again. So I did this big soul searching thing. I even built a retreat out of it, which was called chasing hard, where I would like, I just put a lot of energy and effort into trying to understand what leads you to quit and what makes you tough if you want to call it that, hate that word, but like that mental toughness, how can we like psychoanalyze it to understand what tools you can have and like the whole pain versus suffering thing, like things that you guys have talked about, like smiling and all these like tools on your tool, so yeah. Yeah, I often think that there's a lot of people that sign up to a race and if they're wise, not strong enough, they'll, and if the Y is wrapped up in a pad on the back or socials or, you know, those kinds of things that when the pain gets too much, you often reflect and go on a, what, and that's the moment that you speak of, that's why you quit because it's like, I'm doing this for this and that's not strong enough to, to bind me to this, to this outcome. For sure. Yeah, sure. I mean, like you guys were talking about it, you know, how you said, like, you're a runner, right? You're a runner. But why? Why are you a runner? It's coming back to you now. I'm asking about the business. I'm asking about the question. Guess what? It's changing. Yeah. It's a question. Why are you? Don't think about too much. Like, why? I just feel like it's just my purpose in life. Okay. Why do you feel like that? I know. Oh, god. Maybe like, I think without it, I'd just be nothing. Like, like, but what is it you truly love about running? I think, I think at the end of the day after a really hard day, let's say, in a race example, you're working super hard. You've pushed through the limits. You never thought it was possible. And then you come across that line, that finishing line point, no matter how big the crowd is, that point of you being able to cross a line and leave everything out on that course and know within yourself that you're. That essentially what you achieved is great. So you're like pushing yourself and running as your vessel, right? Yeah. Yeah. So like, you was having this conversation before and I'm like, you're a runner. It's like, you're someone who pushes yourself, you're someone who strives towards something, someone who does all these things and running as your vessel. So I think for me, it's like, this challenge is just a vessel. And like, I'm not tied up in what it is discipline-wise. I don't care if it's like, if you want to do egg and spoon race for 100k, let's go. Whatever. I mean, that's nothing. You're allowed to love running, don't you? It's not what I'm trying to prove. My point is, is that deep understanding of like, why I do it? I think for me is what gives me energy in those challenges. Is that something everybody needs? What's that? Why? I don't know. Life feels pretty good when you have something to strive towards in a purpose behind it, but whether they need it or not, who knows? But I definitely feel like, you know, we're humans. Like, it's nice to have a purpose. And it gives things, gives things a bit of zest, you know? Like, I love, I love personally. I look at for myself like when I've had lower moments in life, it's usually been from a lack of like clarity and that clarity towards a purpose. If you want to call it that, like, you know, when I'm feeling the most fulfilled for me personally, it's when I'm driving towards something. But then that comes down to an intrinsic value that you hold dear to yourself. So like, if I took away running from you, you would feel like, oh, this is, I don't know who I am, but it like, you've also taken away that element for you to push yourself. So at a period of time, if we took both of your legs off and you could never run again, at some point, you'd be like, I'm going to be a pull-up champion. It's just who you are. Intrinsically, you are someone who pushes yourself. Just like your dad, if we took, took off both of his arms, both of his legs, well, guess what? He's going to do the little worm for 100k's because that's who he is at his core. I think it's, I think it's the, it's what you learn along the journey. And I think that, like you said, a vessel vehicle, we use running. We do. Like, I definitely use running and I use running to get me out of ruff. I use running to, you know, send an example for my kids that they can push harder. I use running to inspire other people. I had a, I had a gold medalist, Paralympian from the UK during the challenge reach out to me and say, you know, good on you, you're in this moment. I'm like, oh my god, like, that is what that vehicle has given me that, out, out, I suppose. But it doesn't have to be running. Like you said, it could be boxing, it could be swimming, it could be being an artist, it could be any of those things. That's an expression. Yeah. Yeah. I think the reason I like that, I like talking about this concept is because I think when, when I've pigeon-hold myself into my self-thinking, like, okay, this is who I am. And we create a lot of like identity, key man risk, then something happens and all of a sudden, like, you're not as resilient anymore and you can't bounce back. And I think that's why I like going that little bit further with it. I would encourage like everyone to do that. And like the listeners as well to like, okay, next time I pull out of something, it's like, maybe there's a layer that I could go and find out a little bit further because it actually just, that's what adds that resilience to when you're trying to like quit or something because it's like, you're not, when you're running a hard race or whatever, you're not thinking like, oh, I'm a runner. I should do this. You're thinking like, this is the type of thing that I don't give up on. I'm the type of person who gives it all. I don't like, and then that gives you power. So the more deep work I think you've done in that area and the deeper you can like have those roots, the easier it becomes to just stick it. The bottom line, I think as well, is maybe it's not so much the actual sport that you're doing, to say, running or endurance. It's almost the work, the actual work behind it and not, not the outcome. Do you think that you're so driven to the process? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's like the human element to it, which is so cool and so special. I think that's just like what makes it so so much fun. Like it's, you know, the understanding of all those things and the learning of all those things is what makes this whole process enjoyable. And I think that's what I love about like ultra running. It's like ultra running is just such a cool expression. And when you meet other ultra runners, like, yeah, you know that I know that you know that I know, you know, like it's like you've gone through it. Like I can, there's like a twinkle in the eye. It's like you can forge through something. Yeah, it's like we've been there. And like I've been in the fires of hell and got out of it. And you know, I learned so much about myself during that process. And like I to be honest, I feel like a bit of a frog. So I haven't actually run a lot at all and not far distances. So I'm like, I feel like with the ultra community, I'm like, I'm guys are promised I'm still I'm still can do some stuff. No, man. I reckon if you drop a hundred K's full on a two ton car, I think that that definitely gives you good credentials in the ultra running community. Yeah. Okay. We'll see what they think. I wanted to circle back to one of the most extreme challenges that you've done. World records that you've attempted. And that was the burpee challenge for 24 hours. Can you step us through the process of how on earth did you train for that? And how on earth did you pull it off? Firstly, I failed. So I missed it out. I think it's probably a good place to start. So the record was 10,000 something. And this was not chest to four. So this was just your standard like comeback legs, back legs forward jump up, right? And I was doing it with my mate. And this was actually after the marathon. So it was like the first pivotal experience after the marathon. We're like, let's do it. Let's do this. And I wrote, I don't know if I wrote Timmy or he wrote me, but we spent about nine weeks. No, yeah. Somewhere around nine to nine weeks to 12 weeks. I'm in that realm. We train really hard, like really hard doing heaps and heaps of burpees. As you could probably imagine, when I look back on it now, I realize that we probably weren't training that well because we're still running and doing all these unnecessary things. But we set out at Fed Square to do it. And we did actually Rick, my friend, he got Robdo. He got Robdo about 12 hours in, ended up in hospital. So we're going to do it together for like a team effort, but then an individual and just like share the record. But yeah, he ended up in hospital. It was a really emotional experience. Actually, it was like paying black. You know, it was our first experience like this was pretty full on. But yeah, I finished the record. What I thought I got the record was really excited. Broke three Guinness World Records. Yeah, like 12 hours, six hours, 24 hours. And then I submitted it into Guinness and like, oh, you, you're a lot, you're feeding you to go behind the line, not not to the line. So I didn't get it. Which is so funny because everyone, if anyone gives me credit in my small circle, they're like, oh, you've got a burpee world record. It's like, yes, the one I failed. Like it's the one that always gets pulled out, but it's the one I actually missed. And what was the distance that you missed it by? I don't know. A B stick like a little centimeter or something. Oh, no. How did that? Was that like when you got told that you missed the Guinness World record? I got it. Yeah. I was got it. Yeah. I mean, I didn't get it for the Dips either. Just a conversation probably for either another time or hit later. But I couldn't care less. But then when I, I was so gutted and I felt like I really let him down because I organized it too. And like we would've had the 12 hour together and he went to hospital for three days for it. Like it was very, very disappointing at the time. That's for sure. How was the physical experience of doing burpees for 24 hours? Yeah, as you could probably imagine terrible. Your hip flexes. I actually genuinely don't think my left hip flex is ever recovered. I mean, maybe I got a hip flexor issue now from that. Maybe I just had it, but they're like pulling your legs forward thousands and thousands of times. They're just destroyed your hip flexes. Yeah, my knuckles were really torn up like I had no skin on all of my knuckles because we were doing them on our knuckles so that kind of hard to explain on a podcast. But when your hands flat, it's small range of motion, less range of motion on your knuckles. So we did them in UFC gloves, which I tell you what, you were walking past Fed Square in 2018 and you saw two guys wearing UFC gloves doing burpees at Fed Square. It was a sight to see. That's for sure. Did you have a big production and so people would just stand around watching you guys do it? Yeah, it was literally like what you would expect at 2am in the city. There was people walking by, yeah, yeah. Watch this dickhead doing like, yeah, like, yeah. But it was cool. During the day, it would have been a different crowd. During the, it was sick experience. Like what a way to do it like at Fed Square, you know, you got like to screen up there. There's some people walking past like it's very motivating. You can't stop. And you know, we had channel seven there. I'm going absolutely ripped on for months from the comments saying, "Yeah, he's on real burpees." You know what I did? I went and did the tried to do a Chester 4 one. And then I did that one. Everyone's like, well, they're not real burpees either. Like I can't win. I see when the Chester 4 will try and set a real record for Chester 4. I was trying to break a Chester 4 the one hour record. I wanted like a change of pace and try like a higher performance less endurance style. I trained for it for ages actually, like a really long time. Like probably the longest of every train for anything because I couldn't get it. And I just kept it kept getting broken. And then we gave up basically. But then I ended up doing like a little three minute record to make myself feel better about myself. But you'll, I know, you know, I know that I did that. There's a copy out. Still a world record. But yeah, it's, I don't know what we're going out with that, but. Missing missing that that Guinness. Well record by like that much. From from the burpees was. What was the actual thank you. I just sorry. What was the hardest part to come back from that was a was a mental stop of like. Like I've just done that for no reason. I think at the time I was more disappointed. Letting my friend down. I just remember when I think back to I just can feel this guilt in my stomach still. I let him down because I organized it. And he was he seemed so excited and it's like broke his heart. And it was definitely my fault. Like I was leading it all in terms of how we do it. Like the measurements and all this stuff. And like yeah, we still collaborated, but I took a lot of guilt from that. But. Yeah, I mean, it's always unfortunate, right? It's like and especially because I had the way Guinness works is you apply. I applied to be able to do it. Then you do it. Then you apply to have it reviewed. And you can either pay to expedite that process and get it in a week. Or you can wait months. I waited months. So I sat there for months thinking on. And then I was like, I'm just gonna get this Guinness World Record holder. How exciting. Check it out. Channel seven. Me on Channel seven. Yeah, broke the Guinness World Record. Literally a clip of me being like, yeah. And then I have to be like, hey, everyone. Just so you know, I can't read. And I'm not going to get my. And I'm pretty certificate. Yeah, my certificate and my name and picture in the book. Yeah, which is unfortunate because of that. I'm not going to get my record. the challenges and then you're right, you kind of build that community around it. And I think that I don't know whether that was your intent. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean, one of our, we don't see ourselves as a fitness app. Never like through many, many, many conversations and workshops around how we see the brand, we see it as a fitness community and then we have an app. We see it. We have an event that ultimately is 100% about the community. And nothing fills my cup like seeing your striver and everyone comment on it from the Harris community. I'm like, yeah, go ahead. Like how good. Like that's awesome. I love that. That's so sick. And I see like, do you know how it's so nice? And it's almost like a bit embarrassing to say, but I was at a point in my life where I felt like I didn't have friends in that space. And I felt really lonely. And I felt like I actually needed to go out and I need to find some friends like that. And it's a weird thing. It's like a, you know, late 20s male to be like, or at the end of anyone, but like at the time, I was like, I'm going to go find some friends. It's a, you know, so I was like, no, but I need to. And that's actually how I met Alex. Like it was through that process that Alex and I started like bonding. Because I was like, yeah, I've got some friends. But I want to have friends with the same interests. I want to have a friend that says to me, guess what? Motherfucker, we're going for a 40k run tomorrow. I don't care what you say. I want that in my life. And I was like, yeah, this is sick. And now I'm like, we get to give that to other people and my how calls that. Or you create more people like that too. And I think it's, it is. Because it's almost impossible to find someone like that. And then then you find, it's like, you go to the pub and you have 10 mates like that. Right. Yeah. By the end of the night, but you go for a 40k run somewhere. And you're weird. Yeah. Yeah. So you're right. And it's funny that you mentioned it. It's because he's like, so you're doing these extreme challenges. And then you're going to find this guy who's running from Sydney to Melbourne. And then next minute, you're crewing him. And then it's like, then you mate. And it's like, it's just, yeah, it just multiplies. And you've got this more and more. You're saying. Yeah. I mean, like Ash and Sam have always been like this. But you know, you've got to have more friends outside of just business part of it. And like, they're so much more than that to me. But I mean, like, if you need more people in your circle, then just one or two people, I think. And it, and you have different people for different things. Like, if I want to go hang out with someone for a coffee, I might have a different friend. But I really, it was really important to me that I had those friends too. And I tell you what now with Harry sits like, now I'm like, leave me alone. I don't want to go for a 40k run, please. And like, I'm getting called out like daily now. But like, this is, I would, you know, today's problems are yesterday's wishes. I was dreaming of that. So. Did you have friends that were? All of your friends like when you were younger? Ah, yeah, I mean, like, I had, I had a really beautiful set of friends. But we just had different interests as we grew. I don't think it's anything more than that. We just, I mean, like you did the normal 18 or normal, quotation marks for listeners. Thing where you kind of like, go out and I went down. I went a very addictive personality. And I let you use your imagination of how that could spiral. So yeah, I went through that scene for sure. And I would, my, I'd go out and send it as you'd call it. And then go out and run and send it. And like, that was my personality dialed up on everything. And my friends would kind of like, I'd use them for that, they'd go outside. But then during the wake, I would just do my own thing. So you have many regrets when you were younger? I have some visual. I would, I don't think, I don't think I could have. I definitely like wish I traded my body with more respect. And I feel like that's one thing I'd like to give back to my kid is to not let them. Go out and just destroy their body on weekends with things. And it's, and it's part of that as well. That regret coming to your brand in hardcore harries of really just trying to promote fitness around and not destroying bodies. Destroying me in a different way. Yeah. Um, no, it's honestly, it's probably like, I'm not, I'm not like, like, people can go out and drink and do those things and stuff and still, and still good values and other areas and stuff. It's more than like for me personally, I just felt like I was better than a lot of the stuff that I did. And like, you know, I don't need to go out and party. Like, well, I don't even, the thing is, is the cognitive dissonance for me was huge. Like when I was doing that stuff, I knew intrinsically how much I hated this. So I let myself stay like that the way too long. And that's the part that irks me. If I was like, yeah, I went through that era and I didn't know and I've changed, I would be like, okay, I don't have regrets. But I know how I felt about all that stuff during it as well. That's the part that makes me sick. It's like, I'm just talking about, you know, like drinking drugs, things like that, obviously. But like, I knew how I felt about it when I was that age and like, and like, I just don't, I just. Do you feel like you felt like you had a choice and you made the wrong way? Yeah. Yeah. But there's also a learning process too. Like, I mean, I, I enjoyed drinking and partying as well when I was younger. I probably, I probably used them as a different outlet just to escape life and stuff like that as well. But I mean, as you get older, you start to reflect, you can't regret it because you wouldn't find yourself sitting here having this conversation, having a challenge at changing people's lives, putting on King of the Hill and all those kinds of things. So that wouldn't have happened. Had you. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. I mean, like, hopefully if I can have both and not destroy my body and also end up in this position, but I totally get what you're saying. I definitely think that like our experiences shape who we are now and the risk of changing something back then might have changed this and that's not a risk I'll be willing to take. But yeah, I don't think I would, there's definitely things I would regret for sure. Yeah, I think like you mentioned like being a parent and stuff like that. And like, I get a lot now. I wish I had have been a little bit different when the kids were younger. But I mean, yeah, it's one of those things. I try and be the best version of myself so the kids don't. The kids think that that's the stepping stone to being great. Yeah. Doing things. What's your whole hope around Harkel Harries to do for many people? Honestly, what we're doing right now and I just want to do it on a big impact, like a larger scale, sorry. It's just like, I love what we're doing. Like if we were, because we're like something to remember through all of this process, like we, the apps free, we've been building this for a year and a half straight, longer technically for free. We've put one challenge behind a paid wall where Broke is balls trying to do this like. So, and I love every second of it. I'll most seconds of it, that's for sure. And for us like, if we can just do what we're doing now at a larger scale and I'm not broke, I'll be like, stoned at that to put it bluntly. That's pretty much it. Like, I've obviously got massive business aspirations with it. I'm not going to put that aside. But on like the core level, what we're doing right now, but at a larger scale. What's like with the whole, the new app that's coming out in a week's time or so, what's the improvement in comparison to what we, what I've seen now, kind of thing. It's just so much, so much better. Honestly, what you have in front of, if anyone, if anyone is a Harries user here, I want to sincerely apologize to you because I know the app's not that great right now. And like, it depends on what iPhone you've got because it's got some bugs and stuff. But ultimately, like, we have got some of the most exciting things planned. And you can imagine how unhinged and also how crazy some of the ideas we have. Like, we have the ideas around like, be able to go ahead to head for money on that. Like, things like that, you kind of imagine. Like, some crazy stuff because we just want to have like a marketplace of fitness challenges. So yeah, the app is a massive improvement. What you guys will see in a week will feel better. But it's what happens from here on that change. We actually brought in a new owner. So we have a, we brought in another owner who is the CTO. And he'll be handling all the tech. Because I'm not going to sit here and say, I know what I'm doing with the app. So yeah, we've brought him in. And since we've done that, the app's a thousand times better. And under his like app leadership, we've been able to do what we've done now. And from here on out, it's just going to knock your socks off. Like, it's going to be nice. And what's the actual hardest challenge from being able to build this company up? Like the, the moment that was the hardest point for you guys. I'm probably in it, to be honest. Right now, it's really, really hard right now. Steering down a barrel of a gun with like a hundred, 200 and something thousand dollars debt in front of you is pretty scary. Not going to lie. And like, you see how much we're like the scale of what we're doing and like how much we're posting all like King of the Hill, all these things. And then I think everyone forgets we literally are making no money. But King of the Hill paid for itself this year for the first time. Break even. Yay. Which is super exciting. But like the Harry thing, like all the stuff we're doing, all the money we're giving away, like we gave away $10,000 to Nikki Wind. We're like, that just came from our pockets. People, I think people forget that. Which is fine. That's what we're trying to do. But that's the scariest part is like, can we make it work? Yes, we all believe it. But it doesn't mean that I wake up with like crippling anxiety about it most days right now. Not going to lie. Yeah, I could imagine how anxious you would be when the fate of the business is in the hands, in the hands of the people that you're challenging. Like the further me and Merlin went, the more the more eyes that you had on it. Like the further the smoke-o challenge goes, the more people pushing, that more people going against each other, the bigger the brand becomes. So it's not something that you can, it's not, it's not like a, do you find it's not like a traditional business where you, like I mean, obviously if you create a product and people like it, they buy it and so on and so forth, that these are challenges, these are people actually going out and trying to change it. And if you're, people stop trying to change their lives, then the challenge, the challenges and the Harry's app kind of doesn't really stand. Yeah, I mean, I probably look at it more from like a sense of what, I get what you're saying. I probably look at it more from the sense of like, we have to spend all this money to build this product, right? But we don't deserve to charge for it until it's right. So we keep spending more on the product to make it right, but we're not charging. So we're just going more and more into debt and every day we're going in, every week we're going into $2,000 more debt a week. And that's built up over a while. And we've obviously done things to try and alleviate that. But at the end of the day, we're not, we've got a pretty big team doing this. We're not funded. That's the part that I'm just shit scared about. I know, like in the, I fully 100 million percent believe in the concept, it's whether we have the runway to outrun it. And that's the part that keeps me up at night. And I feel a lot of pressure is like, to my business partners, to the Harry's community, to the team, to everyone, to be able to pull that off. And like right now, that's really just, what's the scariest point? It's right now for me because I know it's like, it feels like I haven't done a back of the ultra, but if I've never, this feels like a challenge to me. Like I'm like, oh, I could go and see someone tonight for a dinner. No, you're going to sit there and you're going to work. I'm out of it, but that's what I'm in right now. I mean, like the pure still in the pits of like start up life. That's what I'm saying. It almost sounds like a backyard ultra because all the other challenges that you've ever done, have had, well, they've had an endpoint. And you can see that endpoint, you know, the 100 Ks that you pulled the car, you could see the endpoint, the burpees 24 hours. That was it. It just, you know, whereas this is like a your backyard ultra where who knows when it's going to, when it's going to happen? I don't know where they're like, what's it called? The inflection point is where things change and turn around. Obviously, like, I've, I've got a map that I've created with crayons, but it's like, you know, it's, it changes. And like, I just, we've had this conversation so many times. Like we could, even with the way it stands right now, we could just put all the challenges behind a paid wall and say, like, if you want to enter in, it's 20 bucks. And I guarantee hundreds of people would do it, right? But I don't, we don't want to do that because we just want it to be like accessible. And we want to monetize through other areas. And like, obviously we're a business we're going to need to monetize it. We know that. But like, we just want to get it right first before we do that, which is killing us. But okay, which is what it is. You're someone who's probably experienced the lot with everything, the lows, the highs, with building a brand and the business. Are there things and maybe label it down to three things that you might change, but not change that you would do differently? For the business? For the business, yeah. You know, I, I don't even know how we like land on the most beautiful concept to like, to me personally, this is the most beautiful business I could have ever thought of or create of right with the team. Anything that could ruin that, I wouldn't touch. So like the fear of even changing something, like, yeah, I could be a better leader, I could work, I don't know if I could work harder, but I could definitely do a few things, 100%. But I just would like you say before, now it's proven that point. It's like, if I risk changing something, if it changes the future, I wouldn't want to touch that. Yeah. But you just don't know, do you? No, you don't know. Love it because like, I think about how ran like Sam business partner was like, oh, we should just do this challenge and get, what if he never said that? Would we be selling salt tablets right now? Would that be the business? Well, that's like a, just the same thing as like a butterfly flops its wings on what idea to create today. Yeah, I don't know the other side. Who knows? Oh, maybe our destiny is predefined and I would have always got there and anything could have, I don't know, I don't believe in that. But yeah, I don't know like, I think there's definitely things that we could have done smarter. Like we made a lot of decisions fast because it's what gets us good things, we get some bad things. So we made these rash decisions and then we spend more money to change it later. And if we just thought about it a little bit more, we would have made the right decision. Especially with the app, like, pretty happy with King of the Hill, like how a direction, I think it was pretty good, like a good, nice linear direction there. But the app, like, we've made crazy decisions where we've brought in like currencies in the app. And then we've gone like, well, it's too early and we're going to cull that. Oh, there goes $10,000 of development costs. So yeah. Yeah, I think with things like King of the Hill and stuff like that, your ideas around exposure, they really attract it. Like, they attract both events. So King of the Hill and the Harry's last one standing challenge, both of them attracted me to the exposure that it kind of gives you. And that's not something that any other events are really doing. You do get exposure, don't get me wrong. I finish a 50k race and I'll post a photo of me in the middle and it's great. You get some kudos and stuff like that. But the way that you guys look after, I don't want to sound like an ad, but it's the way you look up. Ad a way to, I don't want to say like an ad. I really don't, but I actually felt like everyone was getting around me at King of the Hill, at post, even post. And I felt like everyone was getting around me with the last one standing challenge. And I know that other people felt that during the last one standing challenge as well. And it's not something that I'm used to doing a race, enjoying it. And the people that get around me and I feel it will be my wife and my kids and my crew. And it will be the other people that I'm racing with. And nothing against other race structures. And there are some amazing races and there's a great feel at the event and stuff like that. But it's just the exposure that brings the whole world in around that. So is that something that you guys work on behind the scenes? Is that something you guys discuss? Yeah, that's intentional for sure. Absolutely. Like, especially with King of the Hill, I mean with all of it, but with King of the Hill as the example, we try to treat it the same way. Top level, like, Federer versus Wooden Nidale. I don't know why he's references, I don't understand. But we try to treat it like a UFC match. Like all these big TV events. And that's how we want it. Like we want, and like, I'm very, very passionate about the fact that ultra athletes are the coolest athletes in the world. And they are the most unknown. And I feel like with King of the Hill and like, you know, partly with the Harry's brand, it is about destroying that. Like, it's really, and that's why we went no money just straight away 10 grand, then 25 because we were like, like, money shakes it up. And whatever you want to say, like, we copped a lot of shit in the first year with King of the Hill from the ultra community saying like, we felt like and there were things that we heard and stuff that they just like felt like we were a gimmick basically. But, you know, well, I think everyone needs to remember, and I'm like, this is a running podcast. So God, it's good. But I think you got to remember like, what raises the sport is attention. And like, if we can get attention to the sport, it will raise it. And like, yeah, sometimes attention needs to be grabbed out of weird shit. Sometimes it's got to be the Jake Paul, you know, fighting Mike Tyson. Sometimes we got to throw some like curve balls in there because we've got to get that attention. But ultimately what that does is it brings more eyes on the sport. More eyes on the sport means more money. More money means more attention. More eyes. Boom. All of a sudden you go in like, how dare it be like this where you go run 400, 500 Ks. And no one knows. I want someone to finish like Moab 240 and like everyone be like, whoa, that is insane. That's on TV. Like, that's how it should be in my opinion. But now let's watch two guys hit it, ball over a court for fucking an hour. That sounds sick when I can watch you pour your absolute heart, soul and energy into everything. Have these moments of your down, your crying, your upset, your angry. And then like you finish, you accomplish and you change who you are as a person. I just can't even like comprehend that to me to be honest. Of like tennis versus that. And I love to actually really like tennis. I know I'm not tennis, but you know what I mean? Oh, 100% know what you mean. And I just think that like that is what like Harry's is about fitness challenges. Like we I like to think of ourselves as like the red ball of fitness challenges. I take a lot of inspiration from red ball. That's I want the sport to raise across the board. And like I see other brands doing like prize money now. And they obviously got the pressure whether we gave it to them or not. Who cares? You just we just raised it. And I'm proud of that. You know, if I see someone else giving out a 10 or 20 grand, I'm like, I don't want to swear, but like how yeah, that is sick. We're going to go more though and destroy you. But like, out in a nice way, you know, like this is great. Let's raise it together. Let's go. Yeah, I think like what you said about ultra runners, you know, the thing with an ultra runner is that the problem with an ultra runner is that they're not doing it for the exposure. Yeah. That's the that's the problem. Whereas I know I'm not I don't want to know. I don't want to get like a gift that you want to give an ultra runner. No, like I think what you were saying is so true. It's 100% true. Like ultra runners, like even with Harry's, we put out this survey, right? This is crazy to me. Like we put out this when we first started or a while ago, we were putting out this survey, trying to get some feedback. And like we're giving away crazy prizes. Like out of our own pocket, we didn't have any brand deals. So we're just giving away like three, four thousand dollar prizes, trying to drive with these downloads, whatever. And then we did a survey and we're like, "What drives you to do the challenge?" - It was like 80% for the challenge, 20% for the prize. And I'm like, "What are we doing away? All these stuff." No one gives a shit. - I know. - 'Cause it's so intrinsic. - It's so intrinsic. - Yeah, yeah. And like, don't get me wrong. I understand like, you know, someone plays tennis and they, you know, but they do it for the, the goal, I'm not sad, I don't wanna say it like that. 'Cause I know that people are humble and people do it for the challenge as well. But a lot of it is for the exposure and all those other things. But yeah, ultra runners tend to do it because they make some a better person. - Yeah. - So there's-- - We can have both, right? - Yeah, we can have both. - Yeah, all that's right. And then, but what you guys are doing, you're kind of shining a torch and a light on, hang on guys, you guys do, you guys train 25 hours a week. You do these epic challenges, like, I mean, it's, let's get some little bit of notoriety for that. Let's have a, let's create a reel that has four million people looking at it. And I'm like, me and I like, I believe that four million people watching me cross it finish line for it. I'll only do, put me to bed. - I can't believe that one did that either. That was, we, we, we, we, we, we, talking about this all the time, we're like creating a reel. We spent one time, we spent a four week creating a reel, like, it was in planning the idea. We spent a full day of execution. We spent a four week of editing. It was like a three week video for 90 seconds and it got like 2000 views, right? Had a monster truck in it. It was a crazy video. And then there's you crossing the finish line with like distorted audio mech and it gets four million. - Before we wrap up, we've got a couple traditions that we do. We've got our don't quote me on that. But I normally do a theory because I hate it. - I only hate it because it's like, it's a quote. - It's a quote. - It's not a theory. - Yeah, because he's like, have you got the quote because it's called don't quote me on that. But I actually wanted to ask you, what, what's a controversial theory that you have? - Oh. - When it comes to whether it be challenges, business, or just something that kind of tickles the back of your brain that you often don't want to talk about. - Something that's a little untested. - Ah, I don't know. Like is it like a saying? Can I go off a saying? Or what are you saying? - Yeah, you could just, so it's just something that you think, like a controversial opinion. - Yeah. I don't know. I mean, maybe like something like the first thing that popped to my head. I don't know if this is relevant, I'll say it anyway. Is I hate that when people say smell the roses. I don't know like if that's relevant, or you're saying, but I'm 100% excited. - Why does it kind of stand it? Mum always used to say that to me when I was growing up. Like just smell the roses, smell the roses because I was like, always, I can always doing things. I'm more intense now in a lot of ways. And I have so much enjoyment and fulfillment. And I'm like, that saying is dumb. It's like there's nothing wrong with going out there and doing what you love, right? It's just that people can't understand that intensity and doing all these things that you enjoy. People can't fathom that you love running 100 case. That they can't even understand that. So they just go, oh, well, smell the roses. I'm like, mum, obviously you didn't mean to lie to that, right? It's not, but I just think that is a dumb saying. And everyone always says it to me, can't stand it. - So someone all more about just doing of the thing? - Yeah, I feel like, like I'm smelling the roses when I'm working because I love it. I'm smelling the roses when I'm running. That's me smelling the roses just because they're not your roses. - Yeah, that's, I like that one. - That's exactly the other way. - That's great. And you didn't even have to research that. We researched it. (laughing) I remember you though, it's all done. - I don't remember you. - I was just gonna bring the new one every week. I just got one and I'm one and done. - But that was, that's good because yeah, it's about, it's almost in life, it's about finding things that other people look at and hate and couldn't think of anything worse and you're loving it. And it's like don't go like pooping and shitting on anyone else's like goals and what they're doing because they might love it. - Well, it's all about being your authentic self. - 100%. - If you're authentic and you're just doing it and then someone says, you know, you've got to slow down and that says more about that other person. - Yeah. - Because they might go, oh, actually I might not be able to do that online. I'm not saying that you're amongst, which I was thinking, she was actually. - She was actually an aunt of me. - And you know what? She's probably pretty relevant. Like she had a lot of like reason to say those things too. - That's right. - I think she was more looking at it from a standpoint of a mother's seat. - Well, I'm carrying my baby. It's not going to work so much. - 100%. - 100%. - Yeah. - So top that, Ollie. (laughing) - No, well, I am going to ask you another tricky one because you mentioned before we are like, we go to do it every week. - You're, I do it quite. - Okay. - So can you give us a quote that you live by every single day? Oh. (laughing) - Oh, the top of my head. These things are actually pretty difficult. - They are and yeah, for anyone listening, it is tough to like, sometimes I forget my quote and I have to, yeah. - No, you do yours first. I'll think while you're talking. - No, I don't have a quote. (laughing) - We don't have to do it. You can get to do it. - Oh, shit. - But you know what? - But the, but the beauty of this is that in a second you get to give us a challenge. - Okay. Look, I don't, I don't have a quote that I would say I strictly live by every day, but there's something that I said before which is something I'm trying to live by more now, which is today's problems are yesterday's wishes. I really like that. I don't know where I heard it. I definitely copied it 100% but I just really like it because like I'm sitting here complaining, oh, well like the apps having these problems in this, but like, you know, a year ago I was like, God, I wish I could have such a purpose towards something that I feel so passionate about. So like, you just got a can of blessings to be in and just go, oh, you know what? I was complaining about this. It's like all I wanted to was to buy a house one day. Oh my God, I can't wait to buy a house. It's so exciting. Now I'm like, ah, can't be bothered more on my lawns. You know, it's like today's problems yesterday's wishes. - It's almost like reflection and gratitude to the dreams you once had. - Yeah, 'cause you just shift the, you just move the goalposts, right? So if you're not like, you gotta just stop and be like, smell the roses. (laughing) - You know what I mean? Like, I mean, it's too like almost conflicting views in a way, but I hope you can take them slightly separate. - Yeah, 100%. 100%. I really like it. Often mean I'll be able to talk about like even just the podcast, the hard work that we're putting in and all that's going to be. - It's like, I want, I'm gonna put up on the screen and like, it was like, and we showed you before, but for the viewers, put on your screen because it just shows the progression of this podcast. I'm very happy with the shot how I've got. - Even. - And, and feel good. And the content is there, but like the shots and you just see how far we've come and it's amazing. And I think you need to look back. And sometimes if you're struggling to see whether or not you're making progress, you need to look back at the goals that you want set to. - Yeah. - To get that validation. - Yeah, I think it's very easy to just be like, just forget that this was once the thing that you dreamed of. - Yeah. - Yeah, that's just like, you get stuck in the daily and you forget. - Yeah. - Because then you achieve that thing. - Yeah, and it's pretty good. - And then, but it's also, I like that theory because often people talk about obviously, it's not the outcome, it's the journey. And that's exactly what's happening in most cases is that you actually, the outcome once you get it, it's actually not, - No, it's not that great, is it? - Yeah, it was actually, it was the actual process. And that's why you don't actually notice that you've actually achieved that thing. - Something interesting, and just to finish up on is that, I was thinking about what happens when you get to that goal, that outcome, like what next? You know, like you think of your wildest dream, what's your wildest dream right now? - Honestly, like, I don't think I have some, I don't really have, I mean, like obviously I want to make the app successful and all this stuff, but like, honestly, I feel like I put a lot of deep work into lately, actually trying to like step back and go like, I'm living it in, which sounds so cliche enough. Like, yeah, I just feel like my dream right now is to do what I love. I just like to have not be poor while I'm doing it. That would be nice and not be crippling in debt and all that stuff. - Yeah. - You're living your dream. - I'm living my dream. Like I get a beautiful partner and I've got, I just get to hang out with my best friends every day building a brand that I'm passionate about. What the fuck have I got to complain about? Shut up. - Well, you probably proved my exact point, 'cause I think about like winning a race, say for instance, and it's like, what happens when I win that race? What next? And I can't think of what's next. So that's why it's important to focus on the nail. And that's the actual dream, like you just said, like you are living the dream. - Comes back to what I was saying before about the whole thing, like you're not gonna run out doing the goal. You're just someone who pushes yourself and the goal's just something to aim at. And when you get it, who cares? You don't get it. You're gonna do everything you can to get it, how you're? Then it's just a goal post, just moves. And you just more you achieve it. You're more like, I'm just gonna move again. Then I'm gonna chase the larger, bigger goal post. - Yeah, and then you work, or you come to realize is that it was the journey all along. - I'm interested. - And then it's like, oh no, hang on, I actually just wanna be on the journey the whole time. - Yeah, I'm just, I'm like, please don't give me a big goal, 'cause if I hit it or don't hit it, I'm just gonna be depressed for three months anyway. Well, I try and find another one. - 100%. - It's just, yeah, it's like, it's nice just doing the, like, I mean, what's the definition of success, right? Like, I don't know, it's short, it's always subjective, right? But for me, I'd like doing the thing I wanna do each day and living my daily life to how I would wanna live it. And I feel like that's for me, success. So I'm like, the goal itself, whatever, that it'll come, it'll work. I hope so, but. - It might, it might sound graffiti, but do you believe in failure? Like, in a way where it has to happen, in order for you to be able to achieve success? Oh, man, I feel like the whole failure and success thing is just so subjective. Like it is someone's opinion, like your idea of success and your idea of failure are going to be two completely different things to me. So I think that in the traditional form of what you're saying around like if I don't hit my goal and that's a failure, then yes, I think it isn't a necessity into reaching other goals. But I think like my subjective opinion on what failure is is like not trying, not putting it all in when I should have being a bad person throughout the process, whatever like that is failure to me. So I don't, I don't see it like that. If that makes sense. But yes, in the, the what you're saying, like absolutely, if you're striving for a massive goal, of course, you're going to fall short all the time. And the big goal, probably the more likely you are to fall short and that's just part of it. Like if you're striving to be the best runner in the world, well, guess what? Is there a pretty high chance you won't get it? Go all in still, but like the bigger you goal, the more chance of failures, right? Which is what it is. The closing tradition of every single podcast that we do is the Better Buying Next Week Challenge. And because you're there, I guess this week, you get to set one for us. And you don't have to do a challenge. All right. So it's a constant controversial, a quote and then a challenge. So I'm setting you one right now. Yes. Okay. All right. Acting like I wasn't prepared. I'm bringing out my phone. So excuse me bringing out my phone. But let me explain a quick story. We were doing a branding change from when we get going like we had this really ugly brand that we built off like five or five bucks. It was just whatever. So we paid this branding agency to help us at this time. Do it. We went undergo this, underwent this like massive thing, but they did like fact finding. All these different stuff. They wrote out our values, a mission statement, all this, right? Exercise for the business. I ended up finding a way to do that on myself and I call it my brand Bible and it's something that I constantly refine. Something that I like to try and understand best I can and it's something that I use before challenges and during challenges that like helps me realign with that why so that when I inevitably hit the shit, it's easier for me. So you guys are going to do your own brand Bible. All right. Sounds good. So what it is, it's quite long, but I'm going to give you the short version. All right. So what you're going to do is you're going to write down five values, right? Like something intrinsic to you. That's important to you. We'll go two actions on each of the values. So I value connection. An action that proves that would be I call my mom every day or I see family, right? So one value, two actions on each of the values, sorry, five values, two actions on each of the values. And then I want you to turn that into a long sentence that describes who you are as a person and what you stand for. Yeah, that's right. That's a lot of winded wine. Oh, my houses. That's quick. You should know yourself. You spend the most time with yourself out of everyone. I could you name five values right now. You can name how you support that right now. The problem is that forces you to really think about it. And then it's a honestly, I know this is sounds a little bit like airy, fairy. If you want to call it that, it's been one of the most pivotal things for me. So maybe it'll give you some joy. Maybe you'll hate it. But either way, you don't have a choice because you gave me the option. Yeah, that's right. So we get to take that away. Yeah. Yeah, you don't have to do it now. That's cool. Thank you so very much. I reckon that's going to be, you know, I like stuff like that because then it makes you actually look inside. It's almost like journaling. I'm sure. And maybe it's something it's overlooked as well. People just think, oh, yeah, self love like really like, you know, it's not like, yeah, like think of this. If you want to frame it, frame it however you want, right? But frame it like this in it like you at the end of the day, mental toughness is one of the most important things in your sport and in your sport, right? Because you not want to have every single percentage that's going to put you in the best chance for win. And this is understanding your intrinsic values truly and working on that is a driver. So like, and this is, this is what's his name, the tennis coach guy, what's his name, Mojo Crowe or him? He does like the, he does a lot of work with this on top tier athletes about like understanding values and things like this. And he calls it their Mojo. I don't want him butchering a little bit. And if you have a look at him, does some awesome work on it. But one of the things that I, that he gets you to do and I actually went through this exercise, some of this stuff from him, some of this stuff I've blended, but it's creating like an ethos, which is like this big long winded thing that you can read. And I've got one for myself. It's a bit cringey so I'm not going to read it. But I literally could read that and I would be so fired up. I could run through a brick wall. So how cool is it to know that anytime I want to get fired? I want to hear it. Join it. Yeah, come on. Come on. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. All right. Each day I will do what must be done regardless of how it makes me feel. I know it's the hard things in life that give me the most joy and fulfillment. So I welcome that shit with open arms. I strive to learn more, be more and do more, not because I am not enough, but because I am the, it's the relentless pursuit of progression that lights me up. I want to always be the student. No matter how much I feel I know for it's the process of learning that keeps me buzzing. I know that life is extremely short and each day will strive to be 100% honest with myself about how I am choosing to live it. And if I am not happy, if I am not fulfilled, I will not settle because when I go to look back on my life, I will have nothing but 100% satisfaction. That's it. Wow. Well, this is before AI. Just sort of the wreck. And you can't use cord or AI. I'm going to make that very quick. No, no, no. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Thank you so much for sharing that. That's all I'm really, really cool. And like obviously it's, this is subjective. So when you hear someone else's, it shouldn't maybe light you up unless you can say something. Well, it does. It does. It lights me up to do my own. Yeah, it lights me up to do my own. But also it lights me up because I'm thinking, wow, wow, that's like that's something that you've done for yourself to pump yourself up. Like it's, it's been the best thing I've done for quote unquote mental toughness because I feel like I just have like, yeah, I just have the backbone there. Like it's, and it's only small. And like, you know, you can take this further and you refine it over time, like things that you value today, you won't value in two, three years or they'll change and shift in importance. And that's fine too. But, you know, you just do something you constantly revisit. And also this is a nice reminder because I read that now and would you know what that feeling I have when I read that now was actually like, well, there's actually some things in here that I need to work on because I'm not living in alignment with alignment to some of these things. It keeps you accountable to how you should be is the best version of yourself too, which I think is just as important. That's really cool. Can we wrap it up there? Where can people find you? What is the app? When's it all coming out? You know, let us know all that stuff. Yeah, it looks, there's anything you can do. It's just download Harri's Challenges app from the app store and get around a challenge and tell them to do the same. And that's it. You don't worry about where you find me. Just Harri's, Harri's, Harri's, Harri's. Awesome. Thanks for coming. Thanks guys. Thanks. You spumps. Thanks man. [Music]