‘I’m SORRY!’ Kelsey Grammer Apologizes To Piers Morgan! Plus Jennifer Welch ‘Trump Facist’ Debate

What a stupid question that is actually. He is one of the worst candidates I've ever seen. And then I have some other fat drugs. I said, "Are you taking this stuff?" Yeah, I said, "It's not working. You look like shit." The president is certainly capable of going back. And his ability to be frank and respond in kind. It's garnered a lot of support from some people and also inspired a lot of hatred from others. Trump's an asshole, and I'm going to call him an asshole. This man is America's Hitler. I might have a tinge of respect for Erica Kirk, if she were to talk about what really killed her husband, which is guns. It is because of normalization of that violent rhetoric that we've seen people take to the streets celebrating Charlie's assassination. Kelsey Grammer is an extremely rare specimen in show business. He's funny, as well as serious. He's conservative, as well as popular. And he's the only major star to walk out of one of my interviews before it even began. But among his rare in Hollywood qualities is, of course, a sincere love of history. And if this passion which led to the creation of the American Opus, a monumental tone on the American story, which had to call it a grammar, being very badly told. Well, Kelsey Grammer joins me now. Kelsey, welcome to Uncensored. Hi, Peter. How are you? Last time I saw you, we were both attending the London cigar smoker of the Year Awards. (LAUGHS) That said, yes. It's a boy's deal, yeah, right? I'm a regular attendee. It was a fun night. And even though I only smoke about three or four a year, I was delighted to be a winner. Let's get to this extraordinary project. I've got the book in front of me. It's absolutely gigantic. It's 800 pages long. It has a forward by President Trump. Why did you want to get so personally involved in this, Kelsey? Well, it's sort of dovetailed. This connection, this relationship I have with the Opus guys, came out of a project I was working on, started about a year, a year and a half ago, to build a mobile app. I call it the American Revelation now, which is basically an historical look back, sort of a get acquainted dance between people who do know and don't know what their history is in the United States of America. And we are trying to actually offer up different ideas about what America really is, what it represents, what its history really is. There are certainly certain, let's say, prisms through which our history has been shown to people and some of those are reflective of goodness or aren't. And we're looking for a way to actually introduce people who don't know or reacquaint those who once knew about the greatness of the founding fathers and where they're really coming from and what their motivations were. And to paint the idea that maybe the founding fathers are basically us, that we aren't that removed from them that we have the same desires, same hopes for a better place, a better government, a better world in which to live. And so that's my dedication to this. This is how I got involved with the Opus guys. They said we want to do a book basically about moments in time in the American story. And this is it. So I volunteered to cooperate. I have a connection with the president. And I asked if he'd be willing to go ahead and write the forward for the book and he did. You know, the president's child has only a long time as you have. He's one thing he definitely is. He loves his country. He loves America. And he feels very strongly about the way that he thinks it's gone in the wrong way. And he's tried, as he sees it, to fix the problems. One of the biggest problems, I think, is not just relating to American history, but every country is social media has really directed young people to think certain narratives about things in a way that I think is really unfortunate. What do you think of the biggest misconceptions that young people in America have about American history? Well, I think it's very, very. There's a monetary motivation through most of these portals and most of these social apps and stuff like that that actually are trying to make money. The best way to make money is to find a side, to pick a side or to create a side that will draw up people toward spending their money. I mean, it comes down to that. And thinking as sort of a group think way. The American mentality was originally designed to honor and encourage individual activity and thinking to make people individually responsible for their well-being and for the government that they choose elect. And I believe that the individual is America's most important natural treasure, national treasure. And that's been going out of style lately. Group think is not a good thing, but it is very, very profitable. So we go to these words like racist racism. I mean, if you've run out of ideas, you just call somebody a racist and, "Oh, oh, you've got it back on your heels." Well, that's just nonsense because I know I'm not a racist. I know that. And the weird thing is when people who accuse me that I am likely a racist, they also know it's not true, but it's a weapon. So we've reduced our ability to get along to. An opposition of ideas will lead necessarily to name calling. Name calling and isolation and oppression of ideas. And I think that's wrong. And I do think we should actually stop calling each other. So if somebody wants to ask me a while ago if I actually became the president of the United States, what would be the first thing I would do? The first thing I would do would be to reintroduce good manners. I mean, you'd have to be honest and say that President Trump, himself, calls a lot of people names and isn't always the great upholder of good manners. I mean, it does. I do think it counts on the top. Sometimes when I hear him go off at people, particularly like female journalists and so on, I don't like it. And I wish he wouldn't do that. He can't help himself. And he's always been like that. And he's done it to me. But I don't like it. I do think that there's been, as a consequence, not just a Trump, but of many people in public life. There's been a reduction in what you, as you just said, of basic manners. Well, it's interesting. I would like to introduce it on both sides. The president is certainly capable of going back at people who ask him. As he often says, "That's a stupid question." Now, is he right or wrong? He's probably right. When he was asked just the other day, "Would you consider using a nuclear weapon against Iran?" He turns and said, "That's a stupid question." And it was. So, his ability to be frank and respond in kind, I think is something that's garnered a lot of support from some people and also inspired a lot of hatred from others. This notion that he's a despot or a dictator is particularly, he's an elected president, so people are entitled to talk the way they want to talk. President Trump is the first Republican who's ever gone back at people who say things about them. And so, yeah, is it unattractive at times, perhaps? But he's the first guy I ever stood there and said, "No, I'm not going to let you call me that. I'm not going to let you pull down your face and identify yourself and say, "Is this face offensive to you?" I mean, the question's offensive. It's not easy saying anything positive about Trump in Hollywood. It's a very, very liberal town and a very liberal state. How do you handle that? Well, I'm who I am. I'm an honest guy. I call him how I see him. Like I already explained, I'm not much into a group thing. And I've always been kind of a rebel. It's the old Groucho Marx thing. Why would I want to belong to a club that would accept me? I'm not really a guy who thinks, "Oh, I want to think just like you do. I tend to go against that." So when I moved to California, 40 years ago now, I realized I didn't want to be a member of that club. So it was most natural for me to be resistant. And I am a conservative, anyway, I think conservatively. I think the individual is the most responsible person for our own future. And I would not turn to government for my future or my well-being in any way. I want lean, clean, small footprint government. I don't think Social Security Administration should be run by 62,000 employees. I think they could do this a lot better. And they keep telling us they're running out of money and I think there's a reason. We're too big. You felt so strongly Kelsey about the way schooled. are teaching kids about America that you've actually homeschooled at various stages three of your children. You said on the Katie Miller podcast that you believe children have been taught by teachers that America is a crap country and you equated it to child abuse. You said so they children end up searching yourself why you're not a good person, why you aren't good anymore, why our country isn't good. So that means mum and dad aren't very good either. Are they? And there's a whole series of questions that come into it that are basically child abuse, which is a really interesting point because we've been sort of bombarded with I think a general sentiment both in the US, UK, other countries that we've got to be ashamed of our past. We've got to be guilty about our past. We've got to pay for the sins of our of our ancestors. Even if it means shelling out trillions of dollars to people today who had zero personal connection themselves, of course, to things like slavery. But no, no. We must feel so guilty for what happened before. Everyone must now get a huge payday off the back of things that happened 300 years ago. What has happened to society where we are being conditioned to be ashamed of everything that happened before and must continue to carry the guilt? I think it's a basic human instinct to try to villainize people who have had success, who have enjoyed success. America is certainly a successful country. We have dark chapters. We have unfortunate consequences of history that have occurred in our country to which we need to, you know, address them if we want to. But the history of nations is that we all have a barbarous history. I mean, we all point to savage. Behaviour that basically founded every country on the planet. I mean, every every race has been abused by the other in different contexts. So that's, it's just in our nature to assume that we should be apologetic about it because actually we are still a kind of a Christian nation, at least or a Judeo-Christian nation. We're feeling guilty about ourselves and about our success. Is it kind of natural impulse? We want to be virtuous and kind and decent and be seen that way. And as long as somebody tells us that there were not that, it disturbs us when we want to answer it. But I think that's where we get into trouble with this, this idea that you have to apologize for who you are. I don't have to apologize for my parents. I don't have to apologize for my grandparents. My grandparents were extraordinary people. They survived. They survived the depression. They fought World War II. My grandfather was away from home for 28 months in the South Pacific. This is not a man who has to apologize for who he is. He stood up for this country and he didn't even against his will at one point. He thought we were manipulated into this war. He didn't, he didn't care for how we got into the war. He knew that his best friend was shipped to the South Pacific before Pearl Harbor and was killed in a torpedoing. But that happened deliberately. But he still served. He still served because he understood that this country was the best shot we have. We may fall short sometime, but we aim high. And in terms of reparations and those kind of words like we're just going to throw more money and more money and more money at the fact that there was a dark chapter in our past. But we fought a war over it. That did happen. Do the people who have ancestors who were killed in the Civil War owe reparations? Do the Italians who came after the Civil War owe money for the institution of slavery beforehand? Do the Irish who came over through Ellis Island and such? Do they owe money? I don't know. I think it's a I think it's just a dodge basically. It's like for instance we just celebrated the the I have a dream speech. And there were several speakers and I kept thinking, Oh, it's been replaced with I have a scheme speech. So we don't really have particulars, but we do have all sorts of blame and rage and disappointment in our country. But we're doing the best we can. And I think actually sometimes we're doing better than most people thought we could. You know, Kelsey, a lot of people go ahead, go ahead. A lot of people in modern society, they love to play the victim. In a way, if you can play the victim, you think you're going to get attention, you're going to get likes on Instagram, whatever it may be. There's a kind of currency in playing the victim. It's never used to be the case because you wouldn't get the validation that you might today from playing the victim. Of all the people I probably ever interviewed, there are a few probably more qualified to acclaim to be a victim in life than you. You know, for viewers who were not aware, your father was murdered when you were 13. Eight years later, your sister, Carol was raped and murdered in a trailer park. Five years after that, your two teenage half brothers died in a scuba diving accident. It was almost certainly a shark attack that was covered up. These are things, individual things which could absolutely destroy someone's life and you've had a load of this to deal with. How have you emerged in your 70s looking so fit, well, positive thinking, seemingly well adjusted? How have you managed that? What's been the toolkit to navigate your way through so many devastating things? Oh, thanks, Pierce. I always called it my limping faith. There were times I certainly said, thank God I'm not interested. I don't need your help anymore, because frankly, this sucks, but I slowly was sort of gathered back toward a sense of faith. And I have proof of so many good things that have happened to me. I have this scale of horror and just unbelievable grief, balanced with extraordinary success and love and a family that's grown. I lost everybody in my family basically, and then I built another. It's an extraordinary thing, and I think about Job, I think the Book of Job. When I sit down sometimes with a Bible, and I do do this, I'll think on a question, I'll open the book basically, and some information always comes out. Mostly, it's being out of frame, but I'm with you, God is always with you. But one occasion, I was talking in my head, I was thinking about my sister, and I thought, I wonder how old I'm going to be when I die. And so I opened the book, and sure enough, it was the last verse, basically, of Job that said, and when he died, it's the first three words I saw, and when he died, he was an old man, and full of days. And I always thought that was just an affirmation of gratitude, gratitude for this life we have. It's been so difficult and challenging, but I never asked my government to change that. I think that's where we've gone wrong a little bit, somehow there's somebody else to blame. Yeah, there's specific actors that you can go after and where you actually have to make sure that they go to jail. I mean, it's sort of the guy that stabbed my sister, should not be on the streets. But I wouldn't ask government to do anything more than that, because to heed people's lungs there, that's where he belongs, that's fine. But our life after that, it's our story. We have to fight for the virtue in having lived, and to fight for the the place where my sister, for instance, Karen, is remembered for the goodness that she brought. I'd had long, I wrote this book about her a couple of years ago, and it was released this year, which allowed me to finally let go of the grief in a way that was really helpful, because for the first time in my life, I thought of her as alive and vibrant, and all the good that I remembered about her. Finally, it supplanted the grief that I carried. My image of Karen was always a desecration of Karen, and in the past few years, I've been allowed to change that, and that's down to me in my relationship with God, I think. I remember talking to Joe Biden about his loss in life, because he's had terrible tragedy to deal with. He lost his wife and baby daughter in a car crash, his two sons survived. One of those both then got brain cancer in his forties and died as well. And I said, how do you deal with it? And he told me an amazing little story about how his father, when his wife and daughter died, had given him a haigar, the horrible cartoon strip, and in the first half of it, haigar is holding a trident up to the gods, and his boats floundering on the rocks in a storm, and he says, why me? And in the other half, the gods shout back, why not? And he said at the moment he was given it, he was angry with his dad for what he thought was being insensitive. He bought it in some flea market somewhere. But then he realized what he was saying, which is, you can't rationalize things like this. And he said to me, things like this happened to people all day, every day around the world, right? You haven't been singled out for this terrible thing. It just shit happened. was really the message of this thing. Does that resonate with you? - It does. My thinking about Joe Biden's political career has nothing to do with my admiration for his surviving great tragedy. I mean, extraordinary tragedy. And I understand that, you know, everybody finds their own nuance through that. It's personal. But I had a friend, a Catholic priest who once, he was homilizing, and I listened to him. And he said, "Well, if it was a God's voice, supposedly," he said, "These things that happen, I don't do them. I'm not out to get you. I'm here to help." And that brought in a great perspective for me, just like, 'cause there is, God is there to turn to as a comfort. And yeah, sometimes you can rail the God. And I love to, I think it was Dennis Prager, I heard say this once of something about someone who said, "Well, how do you allow the concentration camp to happen? How do you allow that would happen to the Jews to take place?" And he said, "Well, I don't really think that's an arguing point for man to do a better job, 'cause I mean, surely that was a man creation, not God's creation." - Yeah. Your father, as I said, you were 13 when he was killed. And he was killed by a cab driver. It was a couple of days after you mentioned this earlier, Martin Luther King was killed. There was a kind of political overtone to it all, you said. And you'd heard years later, that actually drew straws on who was going to kill him. So an appalling thing to happen. But one of the many incredibly sad aspects of this was that he never got to see what a massive star you became. You know, one of the biggest television stars in American history. What do you think you would have made of what happened to you? Oh, Lord, I don't know how I'm going to do that. I didn't really know him. So it's an interesting sort of vacancy in my life. My dad was shot, and he was 37 years old or 38, right in there. And I went through something when I was the same age. That was kind of life threatening. And I thought, "Well, that's interesting." He was really young when he died. I mean, that was my first real sense of identifying with my dad. He was just getting started, honestly. He had a new family, he had four kids, and a seemingly good relationship with his wife. He was teaching music down in the Virgin Islands, and somebody didn't like him, and they decided to kill him, for whatever set of reasons. So his life was stolen from him in a weird way. He was certainly stolen from me. I don't know if we would have ever developed a great relationship, but my sense of who he was is, and whether or not he would have been happy for what I became. I think he would have applauded the fact that I made the best I could of the life I was given, and I'm still working at it. I mean, this whole thing you mentioned about homeschooling. I homeschooled my kids because I want them to grow up, be able to read. And to have an ability to confront knowledge without a lens of, or an overlay of political thinking, or have some sort of vibration through it. Because as I said, I'm gonna digress for just a second, that the whole notion of our education system has been to leave our children empowered, and a full of self-respect, and self-esteem, and they said, oh, no self-esteem's terrible, but then they tell their kids they come from a crap country. So I was told, well, that's a really mixed message. And we hear, I think it takes an extraordinary amount of arrogance and ignorance in a heady combination for people to say things like, well, Thomas Jefferson said, all men are created equal, but he owned slaves. Thomas Jefferson was 33 years old when he wrote, what is arguably one of the most important political documents in history. And anybody who thinks he wasn't aware that he was writing all men are created equal. At the same time, he understood that there was slavery in his life, is just foolish. They're underestimating one of the greatest minds that ever, certainly in America, but maybe in the world. And the statement, all men are created equal, was a poison pill, basically, that said, we're gonna have to fight this out. And Thomas Jefferson, in his own presidency, introduced legislation saying we have to end slavery. It didn't pass, but in 1803, the notion of ending slavery was active in his mind. And part of his legislative body of at least his attempt. And 60 years later, we fought a war to end it, but it could have ended a lot sooner. So Thomas Jefferson is not a person we should point out and say just an old guy in a wig, 33 years old when he wrote that. And it's so true and so worth reminding young people, how young these guys were. A couple of just, this is fan questions, really, but Frazier, I loved it, obviously. You were brilliant in this. In 2023, Paramount brought it back, but not really with most of the rest of the original cast, although you tried. The show got sort of sideline in 2025. And may have been, as you've suggested, in interviews, I think a sort of victim of all the CBS Paramount staff and stuff slightly between the cracks and so on. Is there any more movement on that? A gunplay going on there. Yeah, is there any movement on that, on Frazier, do you think is he gone now, or is there hope? I can never bury that guy, because he's a pretty interesting character. He's an interest in his life itself. I think there's still a pathway to resurrecting the idea that Frazier and his son will sort of book and the relationship that I Frazier had with his father, Martin Craig, John Mahoney. There's a great story there still. So as long as there's a story that hasn't yet been told, maybe there's a place where it would find a home. You know, we'll see. I mean, I love Paramount. I've worked at Paramount my whole life. I mean, often since I mean, I walked through the gates of Paramount when I was 29 years old and I've been working there ever since. So that's a, that's a pretty big deal. You know, the only thing I have in common with you, Kelsey, career wise is my first day in Hollywood working was also on the Paramount movie Lot Through the Melrose Gates because I was a judge on America's Got Talent. And that's where they filmed the first season. So you and I are very similar. Yeah, yeah, it's a great campus kind of, it's lovely. I want to apologize to you personally for, for leaving that day. There were some, there were some things in place that had died been promised by the producer that didn't pan out. And I said, well, I, I can't be here. Well, it was funny because you were the only guest over how do you left before we'd even started. I said, where's he gone? But we, you know, why stage of big walk out on the camera? Well, it was a great walk out and I myself have been prone to a bit of walking out recently. So I've got, I can't exactly take the high moral ground. And the other thing I want to ask you about is you played side show Bob in The Simpsons. Again, I love that. And they're making a new Simpsons movie. You weren't in the first one nearly 20 years ago now, despite being a beloved character. There are rumors that you've recorded lines for this one or that you did for the first one and they got cut. But you may be in the new one, any truth to this. Got it. Not that I know of. You may have a more direct line of the truth that I have, but I've been kept in the dark. Would you like to be in it? I have no idea. I, you know what, I always love to. But I've always thought that if it's, if such a Bob's in it, it's about such a Bob. You know, he's, he's, he's, he's sort of eclipses the storyline as a rule with his murderous presence. So, you know, that seems to be his note. The, let's get back just to end with this American Opus because he is an extraordinary book. It's 30 kilograms. Like I said, 800 pages long, forward by President Trump. It'll cost $250 or $2,500 for a marquee edition. Trump assigned the first edition, which we're going to give, which we're giving to the first lady. You said for her orphan auction, fostering the future. Right to auction for her charity. Yeah, and it'll have a $1 million reserve. I'm sure it'll get that. It's just a very special thing to have. When you talk to your kids, Kelsey, just about America, how do you describe your great country? The land of the possible. And it enshrines the individual. What you want to try to do, this country will do everything it can to get you online, to get you focused on it, and to help you to achieve it. All you have to do is ask and find it and fight for it. I mean, I have, in my gym, I work out pretty much every day. I have three photographic portraits of Muhammad Ali. He was one of my favorite human beings. I was so, So grateful to have actually met him finally when, I met him at the inauguration of George Bush, the second, you know, George Bush, W. But he was a magnificent man. And of course, you know, he was, you know, his infirmities had sort of caught up with him by the time I met him. But I had such admiration for him and for his stance politically against the Vietnam War and for his, for his adopting his, his Muslim name, his black man's name, not his slave name, as he said. But see, he did that. He did that and America embraced him for it. And yeah, they fought him for a while. And there's a great cover on Esquire, which is part of this book, I think. I've requested it to be part of it, where he has the arrows in him. And he told him, when he shot the show, he said, you know, this was, this is Dean Rosk, this is a secretary of this, they came after him because he spoke out in a way that was honest and true. And sometimes the government wants to stop you. And I believe we have to always be very cautious about government getting too big, too powerful. And I like that, I like where Donald Trump has gone for with it. But this is a great country. What would I tell my children? Dream as big as you possibly can, but be expected to take big action to get there. Don't ask anybody else to get you there. It won't happen that way. That's exactly what I tell my own kids, Kelsey. Great to talk to you again. Always love having a chat. I love this book. I think it's fantastic. I really appreciate it. I'm Kelsey. Take care. Likewise. Thank you, Pearth. Good to see you. Well, very few commentators divide opinion as starkly as Jennifer Welch. Media figures have variously described her as the long-awaited Joe Rogan of the Left and a miserable, unhinged, radicalized, wine mom, whichever side you're on. She can't be accused of mincing her words. Welch often refers to the president as, quote, "cancels muc tacco tits" and to JD Vance as the smokey eyed sociopath. A viral tirade has provoked angry responses from the White House. The sun Democrats believe this is exactly what their movement needs. "Maga Media" is a shamelessly savage place, they say. And it's delivered a shamelessly savage president. Candidates like Abdullah Said and Pundits like Welch are finally fighting fire with fire, they say. Well, not everyone's convinced the Democrats can win with a mega playbook. They argue that it's hard to take the high moral ground when you're on the gutter yourself and that America needs diplomacy, not to division. Well, Welch has written a new book entitled Not Today Fashes and she joins me now. Jennifer, welcome to Uncensored. Thank you for having me. So look, you've written this book Not Today Fashes, which is an immediate triggering, I imagine, to all those who don't consider themselves fashists. Do you have any limit to what you're prepared to say or do as a political weapon when it comes to rhetoric? I mean, yeah, I would think that the limit would be saying things that are not true. It's true that the "Maga" regime is fascist. I mean, every historian that I've interviewed on my podcast confirms this, their policies confirm this. But with this regime, you really don't have to lie. All you have to do is point out what they're doing, clearly, sharply, with probably a little bit of sass and with a 30% approval rating for this regime, it's cut on. My issue would be not the name calling and stuff because Trump does that to all his opponents, and I kind of think, you know, sometimes you've got to fight fire with fire. So let's park to that to one side. But my issue has been with the Democrats and Trump, really from the moment he first came on the sort of presidential scene back in 2015. The moment I hear people calling him a Nazi or liking Trumpism to Nazism, they lose me. And you've done this, you know, you said if any chicken-ship pearl clutches get their panties in a ward because we called Trump a fascist or a Nazi, step aside and let the grown-ups fight. I don't think it's grown up to using an analogy of Trump to Nazis. And the reason is Adolf Hitler was one of the most despicable genocidal monsters of modern times. He murdered 12 million people with his Nazis, killing six million Jews in a holocaust. You can hate Trump and you can have a lot of issues about the more authoritarian style that he's developed and so on. All those things can be debated. No one can look me in the eye with a straight face and say there is any comparison between Donald Trump and Adolf Hitler or Trumpism and Nazism. And I think you lose the argument when you do that. So when I asked you about the limit, you know, I was hoping you might say, well, on reflection comparing him to Hitler and the Nazis probably isn't a good idea. Well, I mean, by your logic peers, your next guess should be JD Vance because he called him America's Hitler. And I think he was wrong. And then your guess after that would be all of the neocons that worked with Trump in Trump 1.0, all of the people who were in the rooms that actually provided a guardrail. Trump famously said, I want generals the same as Hitler. I want generals like Hitler's generals. His ex-wife said he had mine comp on his nightstand. There's no question. I can see the point to you that Hitler is just an absolutely diabolical menace in the history book should always be condemned. But I agree with JD Vance back before he was purchased by Peter Tiel that this man is America's Hitler, that he is stoking xenophobia, that he is scapegoating immigrants, scapegoating, scapegoating people in the LGBTQ+ community to distract from the fact that he is funneling money to all of these morally depraved billionaires that actually do want to come after wages. I mean, Elon Musk famously said this week that he wants robots to do one robot to do the job of five people. Where did those wages go of those five people? They go to the billionaires. Now, I don't think Trump has major ambitions like Hitler did. I don't think he's an organized and I think he's far too narcissistic. But I think that people who are exploiting Trump, these billionaires Benjamin Netanyahu have clung on to him because he is so unprincipled that they can manipulate him. And Trump just likes to hate on people. It makes him feel good. It feeds his fragile ego. But does he hate on people any more than you hate him? I mean, again, what are my issues with the way the Democrats are? I'm a podcaster. He's the president. No, I understand that, but I'm more liberal than not. My sensibilities are liberal really, but old-fashioned liberal, not woke liberal. And one of my big problems with the kind of woke movement other than the denial of basic science, apology, and stuff is that they would say the very things about Trump that they want him to stop saying about everybody else. They would behave often like the very fascist they profess to hate most whilst also branding Trump a fascist. In other words, there is an argument as Michelle Obama, always famously said, you know, when they go low, we go high. It seems to me you've made a calculation and many people cheer you on for it that when they go low, we go lower. And it's a deliberate thing. And you are, you know, you're a podcaster. I get that. And a very successful and popular one. But is it a smart political tactic to go this way with Trump? Or is there a better way to defeat him? I wish I lived in a country where we didn't have to speak this way about the president. I wish we didn't have to have this conversation peers about the president and the way he speaks about women, the way he speaks about deceased service members as being suckers and losers. But that's where we are. And the buck stops with him. Now, as it pertains to all of the wokeism and all of that, I don't subscribe to that. Trump's an asshole. And I'm going to call him an asshole. And Trump's name calling is not nearly as offensive to me as his policies are. Right now, we have concentration camps in the United States of America. We have children appearing in front of judges without attorneys. We have people that are being deported. When you say, when you say concentration camps, again, that invokes memories of actual concentration camps. Then what are they, peers? In World War II, when millions of Jews were gassed in gas chambers, why use that kind of language? Because concentration camps were also used in the United States for the Japanese. I mean, this isn't, you're saying it's happening now under Trump. Where are these, Jennifer? Where are these concentration camps in America today? They're all over the United States. Well, concentration camps were the literally millions of people are being exterminated, because that's what I was saying. Okay. Here's, you were talking about Nazi concentration camps, but historians, and I'm talking about prisons in the United States are holding facilities where they are concentrating people without due process that they have deemed through the Kavanaugh rule of the Supreme Court, where you can just say, oh, they look like they might be illegal. And then lock them up. But did you feel, did, were you as angry, though? Sorry to interrupt you, or were you as angry when Obama did this? Because Obama, as you know, I'm sure you know, deported more people in eight years, pro-Rata per year than any American president in history. Way more than Trump, he put loads of people into cage facilities. He spit up loads of families. He had kids on their own and so on. He did all the things, which I see my liberal friends and Democrats raging that Trump does. And I'm like, well, where was the rage about Obama when he was doing it on a far bigger scale. Well, I think that he followed the law, they had due process. Well, they did trust me. I mean, that was a point. They did. I mean, he deported. And they called you three people. You know, where was the range? Legally. Legally. Well, a lot of it was contested. A lot of it was here. A lot of people thought. A lot of it was not regular. I mean, it was not regular. Listen, I don't disagree with a lot of what you just said. Would you describe yourself as pro-women? Yes. OK, so I want to talk about two women where I would quibble with your claim to be pro-women. Because I don't understand why you've gone after them in quite the way you have. Why is Eric a clerk? So we have the case against Tyler Robinson moving to trial now. Looks increasingly likely that he's played not guilty, but all the evidence is pretty overwhelming that he did do this. And you've said things like, I mean, there's a sought here. I want to play you. Are you talking about Eric? It's just-- Can Eric a clerk as a terrible person? I think Eric a clerk was married to a racist, a homophob, a grifter, and I think she has picked up exactly where Charlie Kirk left off. Now, Eric a clerk-- I don't know her personally. I've never interviewed her, but she's a grieving widow who watched her husband and father of her two kids getting assassinated in front of her. It's one of the harrowing things of modern times the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Do you not feel uncomfortable going after Eric a clerk a grieving widow in that way? I mean, you've done it multiple times. I'm just curious, you know, Candace Owens does it with impunity, and I find that pretty repellent, too. How do you equate being pro-women with going after her? And kind of going after because of who she was married to as well? Well, Eric a clerk. No, I don't. I do not regret it, and oftentimes when I see that, I don't think I go far enough. Eric Kirk and Charlie Kirk peddled racism, homophobia. She has recently been talking about white male men, and she talks about-- her message to women is have children, even if you can't afford them. I go after Eric a clerk because she is an anti-woman woman. She is attacking people at universities, and peers I grew up in the buckle of the Bible belt in Oklahoma City. And so many of my friends were deeply, deeply indoctrinated by their uber religious parents. They think the Earth is 6,000 years old that man lived with dinosaurs at the same time that Noah's Ark happened for real. Absolutely no critical thinking. That's of the devil. And the only hope they have to kind of get out of this indoctrination is to go to a university. And how insidious and pernicious is it for these grifters to go to universities and pray on people at a time where they can get out from under their parents' wing and discover and explore who they are? So I will always stand with the LGBTQ+ community, but furthermore, I'll stand with black Americans. And I might have a tinge of respect for Eric a clerk if she were to talk about what really killed her husband, which is guns killed your husband, Eric. And what's so fascinating, fascinating about turning point, two people started it, Charlie Kirk and this guy that's like 70 something years old. They talked about vaccines are terrible. Nobody should get vaccinated. Charlie talked about everybody needs to have access to guns. Even if people die, everybody has to have access to guns. Well, the 70 year old died of COVID because he didn't get vaccinated. And then Charlie, of course, died of a gunshot wound. If this were a widow that was saying, I want to address the gun epidemic in the United States of America. I want to address this senseless shooting of people on a university, on a bright sunny day, using the first amendment, even though I disagreed with everything Charlie Kirk had to say. I support him. But my argument would be about this. That Charlie Kirk would go to universities, he'd set up his stand, and he would literally say, prove me wrong. And he'd have a democratic debate with people who disagree with him. And I thought that was good. That's how it should be. It's how a democracy should run. He wasn't saying, I'm completely right about it. He said, prove me wrong. Prove me wrong. I have my position. You can have your. When I get on an airplane, if the pilot's black, I'm going to think. Well, it was more nuanced. It was more nuanced than that. And I would say, no, really, but my argument, I guess I'm about you going after Erica Kirk, you're kind of going after for what you perceive to be the sins of her husband. And you've also gone after-- Well, I would add Natalie Hart to this, who you've called a bunny boy in there. Because I know Natalie a bit, right? Natalie Hart, from my experience, is incredibly hardworking employee at the White House. It works with Trump. And to me, it's done nothing wrong. To deserve the appalling attacks on her. Do you know, again, as a pro woman person, as you claim to be? Do you not feel a bit uncomfortable about targeting Natalie Arbus, just an assistant doing it, doing it, working long hours, working in trouble? Not even remotely uncomfortable. I stand by it that she's a bunny boiler because we have a regime every single day that goes out and tries to erode civil liberties that is tearing down the institutions of this country. They are gender-washing fascism. They are using their gender to send a message to women that we will gender-wash. This will make it OK. But she is literally just posting things she's told to do by her boss. That's her job. Well, you know what? She has agency and autonomy. The Republican Party is the party of personal accountability. Did you go after-- Did you go after-- Did you publicly call Barack Obama's female staff, bunny boilers, because they publicly-- No, because they didn't send batshit crazy-- That's the point. But that's the point. I would say you don't-- A, you don't know what correspondence went on between Obama and his female. I do. I've seen it. You don't. You don't, actually. Oh, not Obama. Right. So my point is, A, you're making a supposition, you don't know the answer to. But secondly, it wouldn't have crossed your mind to attack Obama's female staffers in that way. But it doesn't-- Somebody wrote those letters about Obama. They went bananas about the tan suit for two weeks. If he had an aide that wrote those bunny boiler letters to him, I don't know if the ERs in New York could contain the Fox News blood rates. It would be wall to wall coverage. It was a day or two cover here. You mean everything in the world to me. And then there's the picture of her sprinting after him. I mean, he's a weird-ass guy. This is the party that lectures everybody about family values. And Melania and her documentary made sure that the world knew I don't sleep with this man. I say goodnight to him. I go to this bedroom. She didn't say that. She goes to this bedroom. She didn't say that. You just made that up. She showed it. No, she showed it in her documentary. Oh, no, she didn't. She went one way. She just made that up. She absolutely did. And again, that's not very pro-women to make that up. So your argument is that as a pro-women-- My argument is you're attacking-- You're attacking Erika Grievingwood up. But I can't attack you. Well, hang on a minute. I can't attack you. My argument is-- My argument is, listen. I happen to think you're great. And I like watching your podcast. And I agree with you about some of the things you say. But when you say you're pro-women, I don't think it's very pro-women to target a grieving widow because you don't like her husband or what he said. And I don't think it's pro-women to target a female staffer of the president for stuff that he's doing or saying that she just happens to post on social media. And I don't think-- You know, you just add a popper, Melania, making up a fact-- Making up a fact that you don't know the-- You don't know that's true at all. Let me clarify. If she has-- So there's three women you're targeting because of their husbands or bosses. That's not pro-women. Let me clarify, Pears. I do not like Erika Kirk because Erika Kirk sends a message to women that is dangerous for them. It is dangerous to tell women to breed immediately, even if you can't afford it. I think that is a dangerous message for women while at the same time they are trying to lessen the rights that women have to divorce women in certain states, as particularly red states. I don't like Natalie Hart because she works for a man who appointed the Supreme Court justices that have taken the rights of women away in my own home state to where if they are raped right now, if you are raped in the state of Oklahoma, you have absolutely nothing you can do privately with your body. You have to go in a car and drive out a state to go try to receive medical care. Yeah, and I think that's ridiculous. I think it's-- and so women that are carrying the water for the patriarchy often are the first to drown. And so I do not support women that carry water for the patriarchy. Period full stop. You want to call me a hypocrite? That's totally fine. But I triple down, quadruple down. And as far as-- No, I wouldn't call you a hypocrite. I would just say I think the next time I ask you-- I would say patriarchy. No, I would say next time I say, oh, you pro-women. You should say I'm pro-women. That's fair. OK. That's fair. I'll give you that. OK. I'm pro-women. How about that? No, you're pro-women that you like. No, no. Yes, you are. I'm pro-women that are pro-women. Now you're making shit up here. Let's leave it on that note. It's been good talking to you, Jennifer. Come back. I enjoyed it. Your book is not-- You're too fierce. Not today, fascists, and your host of I've had it. Good to have you, Jennifer Welsh. Thank you very much. Thanks, peers. Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Maybelline, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. [BLANK_AUDIO] Plump, dewy, hydrated skin. That still feels like your skin. Try new, groupy setting mist from Mavily, New York. "Maybe it's Mavilyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy." What do you know? It's Isabel Brown. Host of the Daily Wise. Isabel Brown. So Isabel, you were shaking your head quite violently. I'm told during some of that exchange. So your reaction to that interview. It certainly was fiery, peers. I wish that I was sticking around to have this conversation with Jennifer, although I hear maybe there was a lack of propensity for an open dialogue or an honest debate about what it really means to be pro-woman. So perhaps we'll have to have that one in the future. Look, I've had it, ultimately, with the poisonous garbage that women like this spew all over the internet, insisting that we're trying to run away from a fascist culture and that a Nazi president has created a fascist regime in America that's taking away all of women's rights. I hear this every day from Jennifer Welch's podcast and thousands of other women who have very prominent followings on social media. When it is these people who consistently are saying the actual violent rhetoric that is tearing our society apart across Western civilization. Look, you heard Jennifer just say a few minutes ago. She's so concerned about public safety in the United States of America. And yet, this is a woman who is repeatedly spewing the same violent garbage rhetoric that's feeding into physical manifestations of violence. You played a clip of her calling Erica Kirk some pretty nasty names on a separate episode of her show. She called Erica the most evil woman alive on the face of the earth and the devil incarnate and said that Charlie's horrible rhetoric that he spewed throughout his career justified his assassination that so tragically took place almost exactly a year ago today. It is because of normalization of that violent rhetoric that we've seen people take to the streets celebrating Charlie's assassination and impact so many other parts of American culture. Look at the last two weeks in America online with thousands of liberal white women trying to justify a woman violently strangling her own three children to death because of feminism. I don't want to live in a society that says that is pro woman and I hope that more women in my generation feel the same way. What you're seeing with people like Jennifer Welch and others is where they perceive President Trump and Republicans going low, they're prepared to go as low if not lower in terms of incendiary rhetoric. Do you have any concerns about the way Donald Trump talks to and about women for example or just generally about when he trash talks people. I've done him a long time. I like him personally. We get on very well but I win quite a lot when he goes after people in a very personal way. There is a sort of sense that it's trickle down from the top this stuff and that you're going to get people like Jennifer Welch returning fire with fire if the President of the United States is the one doing most of the trash talking. Yeah, Pears, I lost you in those last couple sentences there. I hope our team can fix the audio on that front but as for going low and going lower, look, this is the new reality of the Democrat Party and it's not just people with podcasts and platforms on the internet although that certainly is the case with what we're seeing from the Jennifer Welch's of the world. This is also coming from people running for public office. Look at my home state of Colorado where a leading candidate for the United States Congress has said on stage that the United States of America deserved the 9/11 attacks which we will celebrate the 25th anniversary of this week. You have people coming from families who actually donated financial support to terrorist organizations running for office for the U.S. Senate and being literal terrorist sympathizers. This is a very dark place for the political left in America to be progressing and as we continue normalizing far, far left radical socialism from an authoritarian perspective, you're also seeing the normalization of political violence alongside that. The Department of Health and Human Services just put out a fascinating study this last week that said the more you tend to agree with authoritarian left-wing policies and the more you tend to personally identify with pro-LGBTQ+ messaging, the more likely you are to say that political violence is justified in America, which is how we arrived at a time where one in six Americans support the Luigi Mangione assassination of the United Health Care CEO and you've seen so much of this radical violence become normalized online. I hope it's a wake-up call for people because the only thing that's pushing us further into a fascist authoritarian society is a world where you're not allowed to think for yourself and you're not allowed to have open dialogue and debate, which I'm only seeing perpetuated by the political left, not the right today. I mean, I see a lot on both sides I don't like. I do think, though, it's a particular aspect of the hard left, this sort of lionization of people who've done terrible things. You know, whatever you think of a Lindsey Clancy case, and I think it's complicated, I do think there is this postpartum depression, psychosis, I think it's a real thing. I don't think she could have been acting rationally what mother would kill her three children that way, but nor do I think she should be hero-worshiped by a kind of fan club cheering and saluting her outside a courtroom. What happened was a terrible tragedy, but it was also, it ended by lives of three young children and I've got four kids myself. This is a terrible thing that happened and no one should be hero-worshiping the person who did it, notwithstanding, it made me that a jury event she concludes that she was acting beyond her rationality and we'll see, but I just think it's the secondary part and the same with Luigi Mangioni, the way that he got hero-worshiped. We saw it with the Zaniya brothers who perpetrated the Boston Marathon bombing. I remember being on air at CNN and being disgusted, I think Rolling Stone did a cover on these guys, making them like rock stars. And I know what is happening to society when people blow up innocent people or murder husbands and fathers in the street because they don't like the jobs that they do running healthcare companies or they kill three children because they're disturbed. What makes people want to hero-worship them? I don't get it. Yeah, I think with the Lindsey Clancy case peers, it's important for us to zoom in here and look at the fallout of the cultural messaging that's coming from the Court of Public Opinion because now you're starting to see this impact a court of law as well. Just last night, a middle-aged woman was arrested for trying to intimidate the jury by taping videos of the jurors coming out of the courtroom presumably so that she could dox their identities. If, indeed, they convicted this woman of first-degree murder, which I know there's been a lot of controversy about, I actually think it's been a huge disservice to an honest conversation about postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis because Lindsey Clancy was never once diagnosed with postpartum depression or psychosis from any of the multitude of doctors that she was seeing. So it's a masterful skill in messaging that from her legal defense team that's garnered a lot of sympathy and public support for this particular defendant in this case. Unfortunately, that has now twisted the meaning of what postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis actually means, and it's preventing us from really helping women who actually need our help. And certainly, it's not delivering justice to these three beautiful children, but I can just tell you anecdotally, what I'm seeing in my comment section on social media and the posts that I'm seeing on TikTok, Instagram and Twitter are thousands upon thousands of women saying same Lindsey, that could have been me. I could have been in the same situation. I, too, sometimes, think about killing my children. And I have to know that this is a symptom of a much larger societal disease that is encouraging us to devalue human life, not just in the people that we disagree with, certainly in the realm of political violence, but even for our own innocent babies. And I don't think we can continue living in a culture like that and still call it a functioning society. No, and I also think there's a big issue with over medication in the United States. I mean, I said yesterday, and my American guest was shocked when I said it, but it's a fact that 80% of the world's painkillers get consumed by Americans. I mean, that fact alone should horrify Americans. It's like, why are we taking so much medication? Just on painkillers. Never mind everything else. And she was medicated with all sorts of stuff. I just don't think that helps an already disturbed mind. It just makes things a lot worse. I think it in her case is clear. And on positive news is about, I'd like to end by congratulating it, because you announced this week you're expecting your second child during the winter, a little brother to your first child, your daughter, Isla. Many congratulations to you. Thank you, peers. We're so excited and just can't wait to welcome this blessing into our family. Well, I wish you all the very best to all of you. And thanks for joining me on our censor. Thank you. Peas Morgan on censor is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. 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