'I'm Lucky To Be Alive' Phil Collins on Oasis and McCartney Feuds, Family, Divorce & More

Oasis are getting inducted into the hall of fame at the same time as you. The old Gallagher famously, infamously, branded you the anti-Christ of music, and famously declared that he wanted the severed head of Bill Collins in my fridge. You a fan of theirs? No, not particularly. I mean, I'd rather listen to the beat. Former Carly, you had a little falling out of it? Yeah. What happened? He said, "Is a big beam, my fan, is our little film." And I thought, "You are so." [LAUGHTER] What do you think you, President Trump? Not a lot. I've got a song that's way here to do it. We can fact people with guns, which is about America. When you do look back at it all, what do you feel? Lucky. Do you feel lucky just to be alive? Yeah. I do. Well, my next guest is one of the icons of music icons, and the 80s is school more than top 40, more top 40 hits in the US than anybody, leaving Madonna, Billy Joel, even Michael Jackson, that he does. He's one of the only three artists in history to sell 100 million albums of both a solo artist and a band. And more recently, he was played by Gorilla in a memorable chapter advert. So joining me in the Uncensored Studio is the great film, Collins. Phil, well, welcome. Yes. I haven't seen you. I've tried to work it out. It probably for at least 30 years. Yes. I don't remember the last time we met. I mean, we've been in touch. I used to do the show, the popcorn in the sun. I used to fly around the world. I once interviewed you. You won't remember this, but I interviewed you in Japan. And we got locked inside an arena later at night. I didn't interview with you for the sun. And they turned the lights off, locked the door and left. And you and I were left trapped in this arena in the middle of Japan. I didn't know maybe the last time I saw you. I got out, obviously, it's only June. Yeah. I mean, we did have a couple of in-depth interviews. I remember when you were editor, they lose the world. And you were very good. You promised me that I could have a look at the copy before it went out. So you lived up to that. That was great. It's been a hell of a ride, isn't it? Your life. I mean, you're in your mid-70s now. You're finally, long overdue, people might think, getting into the rock and roll hall of fame. Now, must have given you, I guess, pause to look back at riddle. Lucky. I think, yeah, I mean, I'm doing what I did. I don't do it anymore, unfortunately. But I mean, all I wanted to do was be a drummer. And earn a living at it, really. Which, in those days, was very precarious. You know, a pop business was very new. And for a while, I mean, I learned. I went to lessons to learn to read music, because I figured that would be my life, you know. I was in Oliver. And I had a really lucky, a great part, artful dodger. And I used to go home on the train with some of your orchestra members, you know. And every night, I'd look down on the pit and there'd be the drummer that did it for six years, you know. And I thought, "That'll be me, one day." - Really? - Yeah. I did. I thought, "That'll be me." So I better learn to read. And my life, in my way of thinking of it, was. the pop thing for as long as that lasted. And it was called Pop at the time. And then sessions, which I also had to read for. And then maybe a dance band or something where I would have to read. And then ended up in the orchestra bit. But, you know, life didn't go quite like that. You know, I didn't ever learn to read. You know, I tried. Yeah, I tried. I tried. I went to two different teachers and I remember one instance when I'd buy my teacher wrote out this thing on paper. And he said, "Look, let's play it." And I looked at it and I said, "Well, you play it, what is it?" And he was like, "Dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah." And I thought, "I can't believe it. If you harm it to me, I'll play it." So I lived the rest of my musical life. You never learned to read music? No, I couldn't be in chord sheets. No, I had. I had dinner with Lionel Richie to have a shamelessly named drop. And he said, "He never did. Michael Jackson never did. He didn't think Marvin Gaye ever did. They used to. He'd showed me how they used to compose songs with their fingers on a table." Yeah. Like, a bit like you've just illustrated. And they would just create the sound. And then everything would come from that. But they didn't actually conventionally read music. No, no. I mean, it's a shame, I wish I had it down. I mean, it would have opened up. You could have been a star. Yeah. I could have been a contender. But when you look at the success you've had for "Eightman," even I was staggered when the team showed me the numbers. You know, only three recording artists in history have sold over 100 million albums as both a solo artist and as part of a band. You, Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson. When you hear that, that's an amazing start. Well, I had to read it. I read it in Billboard. Really? There was an article, no one had told me. And there was an article in Billboard. And it mentioned this. It must have been an article about me, I guess. But it said that. And I remember rang the office and said, "Why is this true?" You know, because it was kind of a big deal. And, you know, it's like being a member of a club that you wouldn't want to be a member of. Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of a bit unlikely. But do you think you've been, I mean, it's a weird thing to say to a guy that's had your kind of career? But given you're only finally getting the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame day, do you think you've been underrated as a musician? I don't think in the business. And that's the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, even though they had a public poll, which I came second in. I was number one for a while. I mean, I didn't vote for myself, I don't know if I can vote, I think in the music world, I was always, I've got respect, you know, as a player. But, you know, I mean, record sales have changed since '60s. I think they probably hit a peak in the '70s and '80s. But as soon as people started to be able to download songs, they just download what they knew they liked. Whereas when I was, you know, getting mature as an artist, as a member of a band, albums were like little pieces of art. Right. You know, you put together an album of, you had a good side one beginning, a good side one closer to make you want to turn the record over and play side to, you know. And so it was all, it was a different world now, so you'll never get those kind of figures again. Really? It was a different business and, you know, as we sit here, you can't play drums anymore. You stopped. Yeah. Is that irrevocable? Could you hope to get it back up? Well, it depends on the temperature, for example, I mean, this summer has been wonderful from a sunshine point of view. So I got an air conditioning in my room, air conditioning unit. And so I got upstairs and I used to sleep with it on up until a few weeks ago. And I woke up in the morning and I couldn't really move my fingers. It's kind of an arthritis. So, and to be honest, I haven't really tried. Last time I tried was on the Genesis last domino tour when Nicholas was playing drums. Yes, on you. Yeah. And I got the drum set up in a room just to see if I could play. And I knew, as soon as I sat down, I started playing it and I couldn't. I couldn't really hold the stick properly. I got drop foot, which is in my right leg, you know, right from the knee downwards, which means I can't really do much with it. And at that time, I needed a new operation, which eventually I had five of. Because it just kept getting infected or the space abroad. I spent a long time in hospital. You spent like eight months or so, didn't you? Yeah. I mean, part of it was the knee. I mean, I'd never been in hospital ever until, I mean, I went in there for pancreatitis a couple of times because of drinking. And up to that point in my life, I'd never been in hospital and suddenly I was living in hospital. And it was, you know, literally. sobering. Well, you can't must be clear. I mean, you came close to death, didn't you? This was 2023, and you were in intensive care. You were very seriously ill. You had a lot of physical issues, but the drinking issue had become something which nearly killed you. And when you feel, as you sit here, do you feel lucky just to be alive? Oh, yeah. I do. I mean, I spent all that time in hospital, as you say, and I can't really remember too much about it. I remember certain things. I mean, Tony Smith, my manager, he gathered my five kids in Switzerland to go over the details with them because it was not looking good at one point. I was on a dialysis machine and sort of things were just breaking down. And the decision was whether I should be kept on a dialysis machine. And of course, you know, the kids now treat every visit as a bonus. I mean, we had a- Do you remember them coming to see you? No, no. I remember little snippets. I mean, my oldest son, Simon, he came and I just don't remember seeing him. Did you- it's a harsh question, but did you want to live then? Oh, yeah. What was your- what was your thinking? What was your mindset about everything? No, I was- I was willing to do anything that would keep me going. But I mean, I was very heavily medicated, which is why I don't remember too much. And I remember this drinking thing is kind of- I like to sort of make sure people understand what was going through with me. Some people get up and- or some people just drink when they come home from work. And they drink and they stay up and they drink and they get legless and fall over in the sick. You know, it's like the usual kind of caricature of a drug. I wasn't like that. I never drank when I was working because I can't sing. I have to be focused. I can't play because I tried that with Genesis years ago once when we played City University. It came when I was at midnight and I've been on the Brownale, Newcastle Brown. And I- you know, I'd devoured into the three inches to the left of each drum. You know, it was a perfect example of what not to do. And so I never did that again. So I can't- you know, I never drank when I was working. But I would drink when I wasn't working, and I would just drink wine. I'd wait, you know, and I think, and I have thought about this, because I always- I mean, for as long as I can remember, really, I've been on the road. I have memories, but not that many as a schoolboy, you know. But as soon as I went on- Johnny Banner went on tour, it was always travel and always playing. Then I became the singer and I was always doing interviews and always playing. So I- there was no time for much else, you know. So when I retired, and that was quite a few years ago, before I had to start, when I retired, I kind of thought, well, I'm going to do all the things that I haven't been able to do. If I want to watch the cricket on a day, I'm going to watch it. If I would have a glass of wine, I'm going to have a glass of wine. But of course, you know, then you start doing it a bit earlier. I never drank after six o'clock at night. So I wasn't what I would call a drunk. But I read that you were sometimes like, you get up in the morning and you'd want a glass of wine. Yeah. I mean, that to me would raise an alarm, though. Yeah. I was living on my own. Yeah. I mean, there was no, I mean, when I was still married, I was starting to drink. And that was because there are other problems that became apparent as time went on, that nothing to do with drinking. But I was starting to drink. But, you know, I mean, I can see people sort of wondering, say, well, when I saw him, it's such and such. I wonder if he was drunk. But I never drank when I was working because I couldn't, you know, I couldn't do it. To spend like seven, eight months in hospital, we're only talking two years ago. What I read was at the end of last year when you came through that, you came out, your kids had all been to see you. And then you all got together and had a four day period together. I think it was at hotel in London, I think. Yeah. A four day with all your kids. And you described it as like a really wonderful coming together of all these parts of your life to celebrate you just still being here. Yeah, you ended up being there. And Simon wasn't there. I want to say this because because they're doing a documentary and they filmed a bit of that, getting together for that. And he wasn't there because he was in hospital. Because he had some really amazingly high diabetic, so amazingly high sugar levels. And so unfortunately, he wasn't there at the time. We're going to do it again this year and he will be there. But yeah, it turned out, because normally kids, the kids would visit couple of Christmas, couple of New Year, couple in the middle, because everybody got families, you know, or girlfriends. And I thought, well, it'd be nice if you just get all get together. Because you know, is there any Christmas as there are left, you know? So everybody gathered together in a hotel that they've all known for the last, put all through their life. In the last 40 years of my life, they know us there. And we almost had a whole floor. And we had lunch together. We had dinner together. After dinner, we all stayed around the table and told stories. It was right, what some families do every year. But we'd never done. And it was a monumental thing. What was it like for you that? Well, it was moving. That was obvious. I mean, it was wonderful to hear their stories of how they feared. They wouldn't see me again. And Lily, for example, I mean, she was just, I mean, burst into tears, you know, because she now has a child. And she'd say, I never thought that my child would get to know our grandfather. I mean, there's all different levels of different things. And it was very touching, very moving. And we all now have a group chat that we just, and it's football, it's everything. And everybody knows what everybody else is doing. Everybody is supporting each other, giving love, you know, like my Nicholas just got a dog and his fiancee. They just got a dog and everybody's like, it's like a real family. Lily wrote, obviously, very successful actress from Emily and Paris and other things. She wrote about you in her book, unfiltered Noxel and Nero Gretz just me. She said, we all make choices. It was an open letter sort of thing. We all make choices. Although I don't excuse some of yours, at the end of the day, we can't rewrite the past. I'm learning how to accept your actions and vocalize how they made me feel. I accept it on on the saddest anger I felt. To all the things you did or didn't do, did or didn't give me, I forgive you for not always being there when I needed it, for not being the dead I expected. I forgive the mistakes you made. And although it may seem like it's too late, it's not. There's still so much time to move forward. I found that very moving when I read that. Yeah. Did you get emotional reading that? Well, I only read it once. As it happens and this has come out since over New Year and since New Year, this last New Year, she wishes she hadn't read it. Really? Why? Because she thought it was hurtful. I'm not saying it isn't hurtful. I mean, I know what I did or what I shouldn't have done. I treated her mum badly. I tried to always be there for her whenever, I mean from the age from five or six, whenever I left the house, to go off, I've always tried to be there for her. But of course, you know, life isn't, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't in control of my own destiny. It was one thing. And this is something I don't want to sort of look like I'm avoiding the subject. But as an example, when my first marriage broke up, it was because I wasn't there. And, you know, Genesis did. In one year we did 77, I think it was, we did three American tours, each lengthy ones, two European tours, both long and a tour of Japan. And when I ended up getting separated from my first wife, the guys in the band said, "Well, why didn't you tell us?" We'd have stopped it, we looked, you know, with that, that's the easiest saying, retrospective, it wasn't like that, we were in a band, you know, it's one for all, for one, and we. The communication wasn't like it is today, you couldn't face time at home or any of that kind of thing. No, no, no. You were gone, right? Yeah, I was gone and we grew apart, so I understand what Lillie means in that open letter. Did it hurt you in the way that she thinks or not? Well, I don't remember really what I felt, because I only read it once, because she told me about it. But I guess I. I was her. I mean, I've always tried to be there for the kids, you know. I mean, I didn't want to be married three times, you know? You don't go into life thinking like that. Think is, you were always, both in the way you wrote about these things in your songs, your music. You were always a very. I wouldn't say completely open book, but you were very, like, prepared to talk about these things, but in what interview, you were very like upfront of Frank, but you were also very like, you were always reading stuff, reacting to stuff, you were sensitive about it. At the same time as putting stuff out there, it was a slightly like, it was an unusual thing for someone as big a star as you were to do that. When you look back, I mean, you've had, you've been married three times, you've got five kids by the different marriages and so on, you've come through, incredibly difficult time for your health. Here you are, and you've come through all this, and I think you said at the start, you feel lucky. Yeah. Is that the overriding feeling you have? Do you have regret, or do you think actually there's a bit of a wasted energy at this time of your life? Well, I regret, to some extent, I have to say, I regret my marriage is falling apart. Sometimes I jumped, well, one time I jumped, two times I was pushed, but, you know, I wouldn't have written it like that, but on the other hand, I've got five fantastic kids that I wouldn't have if that hadn't happened, so I have to balance it. How difficult, Phil, is genuine superstardom, you know, you're celebrating the 45th anniversary deluxe reissue of the album that first got you on the road to the real stratosphere, really. You'd be massive, obviously, with Genesis, but phase value came out, it's your first solo album, and it just went, no one can be normal on that happens when you have the kind of fame that you suddenly experience. I'd defy anyone to remain what they were like, or to be normal, because everything around them is crazy. I remember seeing you at the peak of your past, it was like, you're one of the biggest stars on the planet of any, of any genre, it's hard to deal with. Yeah, I mean, what was interesting was when I was going through my, you know, moments of fame, when I got back into Genesis after one of, like, a really successful tour or something, the one album Genesis maybe hadn't had a number one album by that point, you know, there was always this kind of when we're together, don't pull any fast ones on us, you know, you want to ask, remember? You know, so there was always that, I mean, I don't remember prompting that, but I always felt that, you know, that was kind of an underline, underlying current of whatever one was feeling. But I mean, I write about ordinary things, Genesis never did, and it wasn't until later, much later in the Genesis career, that we started to write songs about anything really to do with relationships or love. And maybe that's because I started to write, maybe more of the lyrics on We Can't Dance, certainly, I wrote more lyrics, and they're more personal. It's been said about you that you wrote your best stuff when you just had a terrible breakup. In other words, the old cliche of an artist in pain always produces greater art than when they're happy. Is that true? Well, it probably is true, but I mean, if you've got a memory, you can dig back into that at any time, you know, doesn't go away just because you're happily married one minute. You can remember when you weren't, you know, or happy in a relationship or whatever it is, the happiness that you're talking about, you know, if you can memorize those feelings, you can go back to them. And it's like it all starts when I play piano, if I play something and I just put my hands down and start falling around, you know, something will happen or it won't. If it happens, it takes you in that direction. So, you know, you're not going to write about fishing chips if you've got a beautiful song, you know. Andrew Lloyd Webber told me, I think it was the theme, it was memory or something, came into him as we was buying tomatoes in his local village shopping day or in New Yorker. And he just suddenly heard this melody, he dropped the tomatoes, he ran up to his house and he just got on the piano and it was memory from cats and it was like one of the biggest hits of his life. And it came while he was buying tomato. Did you, have you had, you had that, the things that just come to you randomly? Well, sometimes you get ideas, it will come to you, I mean, I've got a song that's waiting to be written called Fat People with Guns, which is about America, you know. And I'll just write that phrase down so I don't forget it. And at some point, I might, before somebody else starts now, I might write a song around it. Are you still writing songs? I'm not. And when was the last time you actually played drums? You said it was that? Oh, last time I played drums was. On that Genesis gig? Yeah, it's got to be 15 years ago, maybe longer. Really? It longer, yeah. I don't have drums at home, I did for a while. You miss it? I mean, you miss playing drums? Oh, yeah. I mean, I grew up with the drums, I had a drum since I was four or five years old and that was all I wanted to do. And I, you know, I miss it. I'm a subscriber to YouTube. And. Well, it turned out, because I read "Friend of Mine" from the Sunday Times Dec. 8 in an interview, a brilliant interview. And she said to me, one of her favourites after us. And he suddenly, she was talking about a few people you'd had run-ins with. And I was one of the Paul McCarty, it was another, it was a good company. And he said, "Ah, I see, you know, you watch Uncensored." Oh, yeah. Every week, like, religiously, you tune in and watch the. I've got it on my playlist, so I watch it every single time. I love it in a way, I just thought, I just really love that. Yeah, no, I mean, because I enjoy the show, I am behind you 99% of the time in terms of your attitude towards what's happening in Iran, whether it's Harry, whether it's the whole family or whatever. I find myself agreeing with you, you know. And I do have one point. I just wish you would use the mute button more. Yeah. Do you know what we're going to? Because that's just proven very popular. Yes. People like it. I mean, you don't want to overdo it, because you don't want to look like you're censoring people. No. But actually, I do think it's important. Yes. I mean, I have someone with hearing aids. I'm having a microphone issue, which you should appreciate of all people. It's just tumbled out of my pocket, hang on. No, that's all right. I've got it. I'm talking to a musician, he understands these things. Yeah. He's just so going. I figure what I'm saying now. You were saying about the things you agree with me with and the things you don't. Yeah. The mute button. Yeah. I mean, I have hearing aids, you know. They've taken my ears, they've taken a lot of beating over the years. I had something go wrong with this year, years ago, 2000, around a year, 2000. And it turned out it was something they call something deafness. But now my hearing has deteriorated, and so when you get two or three people talking over each other. I know. I feel that. I can't hear them. I'm sitting here. Yeah. You stay silent. They're just. And I wish people would understand that they can't be understood. Yeah, I say that to myself, people watching this at home, all they're sitting at three people talking average, it's ridiculous. Yeah. And, you know, they happened last week with Lady with the shore, the black shore. Oh, yeah. I mean, she wouldn't shut up. And. I'd love to fact, you watch it all. Oh, yeah. I really. Because I do think it's an. The reason I think it's an important show is I think there are so many people who go down kind of partisan rabbit holes. They only have a year, what they want to hear about stuff. I think the thing about Uncensored, we get everybody on. And we have a proper debate. And sometimes it doesn't get a bit out of hand, but we have a debate. People can hear both sides. I think it's really important. They can make their own minds up. Absolutely. And most of the time, I would say, it works like that. Because people are respectful of each other's opinions, and they let someone finish before they start. And so when it doesn't, I just kind of will. You know what? I'm going to call it the Phil Collins mute button. Best of friends. I'm going to use it more. What do you think of what's happening with the Royal Family? Because it's been an. You were friends with quite a, you know, Diana, certainly. She loved you. Love your music. When you see what's happening, you know, William and Harry with this seemingly irrevocable split, Diana's brother now, Trashing Charles, the Queen dying, Prince Philip dying, Meghan and Harry, going to America, Trashing the Royal's the Monarchy. It's been a lot, hasn't it? What'd you make of it? I mean, you live in Switzerland, but what do you think of all this? Well, it's all rather disappointing. I mean, I've been with the Prince's Trust, now the King's Trust for 40 years. And during that time, I've met the Prince and now the King. Many times, I mean, I'd get letters from him just personal letters. I used to see him an awful lot with the Trust. And I went to a garden party not long ago for the King's Trust. And at the palace, I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. I think the book, the Spencer book, is appalling. I mean, I haven't read it. And I won't be reading it. But I think, you know, who knows what he's doing? Or the publishers know what they're doing. Because everybody will want to read the book, you know, that's obvious. Can you imagine knowing King Charles as you do? Him being giddy with excitement, like a lottery winner when Dina died or saying, don't you worry, we won't be thinking about her much longer. No, I can't imagine that. No, I don't think that happened at all. You know, he'll stand up and say, you know, you'll stand up and say, that's what exactly what happened. I don't believe that's what happened. Well, he got his facts wrong about me. And they were very easily to prove that they were wrong. I know. It's pretty clear what it is. I mean, I would feel a lot better about it if he did donate all the proceeds to charity or dinosaurity or age-arity. Because you always said he'd never make any money out of it? I know. No, it's hypocrisy, isn't it? The root one. Yeah. It's a shame. He feels he has to resort to this. I don't see any winners out of this, apart from the publishers who, unless they give the money away, I'm going to make a lot of money. And Spencer, depending on what his deal is, you know, with the publishers. But I mean, it's pretty, pretty much, you know, when you write a book, you want a lot of people to read it. Yeah, yeah. And the only way to do that is by teasing. And he's thrown out the biggest tease there is. And a lot of people are going to want to know if it's genuine or not. I don't believe it. I really don't. Oh, no, I'm not with you on that. What do you think? What do you think? It's all about Diana, he says, but what do you think she would make of these two boys at log her heads in the way they are? When you've got five kids, I've got four kids, no, it's never easy, but to see them completely, you know, I have nothing to do with each other. I kind of missed it at the beginning as to why this happened. And I don't, I haven't been able to catch up. I know that whatever Harry does now, he's on a loser, you know, he, he, whatever he does, he can't win. I know you're not a fan of his at all. And I don't know what Megan's done. I don't, I can't keep up because it's just one thing after another. Just see. A lot of drama. A lot of drama. A lot of sour, sourness, you know. I think William, and you did say this, William is the one that's come out of it with dignity. I kind of agree because he doesn't say anything, or doesn't say very much. Well, you know, the Queen Mother used to always say, never complain, never explain, and rarely be heard speaking in public. And that's the way to be a public figure that people like because you're not constantly in their lives, dramatic, dramatic, dramatic. I mean, you know, I'm the big fan of Wolf Hall, you know, I've watched it four times. I mean, I'm really, I thought it was fantastic series and Mark Rylands, you know. But, you know, we all know that Royal families, the monarchies, you know, used to be very different. And you, it was, you know, it was a taken for granted that the Queen would have a couple of mistresses or whatever. But of course, you know, it has modern, modern media has come in, you know, people get away with pretty much anything now. And it's very easy to say something and not have your head cut off or not be thrown to the tower. You know, it's kind of easy. So what do you think of President Trump? Not a lot. I mean. Do you ever met him? No. No. I mean, I watched last night, I watched him being interrogated, interviewed. Um, about the, I think this is in two, a 2022, it was a thing on YouTube and he was being interviewed by the prosecutor in the rape accusation of rape. And his whole manner is unattractive, even when he's saying he did nothing, you know, I, I think that the presidents, because historically, presidents have been eloquent and elegant. But you feel like even if you don't agree with them, you still respect them. But when someone like Trump is as nasty as he is, you end up feeling disliked for him. And I don't, I think he's another thing I watched was with Robert De Nurem, who feels passionately that America is in a terrible place. And he hasn't got a nice thing to say about any of the politicians, really. It's very, um, it's very scary with, with what's happening that he, you know, he doesn't see, he plays politics like a businessman. And it's not like really a business at all. It's diplomacy and it's sometimes you can lose, but still, um, come out winning, if you know what I mean. But he sees everything as a, as a deal, one or lost. And I think it's very scary time. And, um, I wouldn't, wouldn't surprise me, yeah, I'm sure he's even tried, but I wouldn't surprise me if he just tries to overall the two-term deal, you know, when American presidents can only serve two terms, wouldn't surprise me if he tries to go against him. One thing I've learned about Trump, known him a long time, the one thing I've learned is never to be surprised by him, because nothing is surprising. In other words, he, he, he, he basically do anything. But I think, I don't think he will do that. I don't think the system would, well, I don't think he would be allowed to do that. I think even his own party, even his own follows, would, would disagree with that suggestion. But so, so he's kind of training J.D. Vance to sort of be a Trump too, you know? So, and I'm not a political person, but I do see right from wrong, you know? When it comes to diplomacy, by an amazing coincidence, Oasis are getting inducted into the hall of fame at the same time as you. I'd known it later this year. Now, an old Gallagher famously, infamously, branded you the anti-Christ music during the Brit Pop era, and famously declared in his supersonic documentary, he wanted the severed head of Phil Collins in my fridge. How do you feel about sharing the, sharing the hall of fame stage with Mr. Gallagher? Sharing dinner with him. Yeah. Yeah. Mae'n hyn o'r llwy'n gweithio'r llwy'n gweithio'r llwy'n gweithio'r ll Yn gweithioedd yn gweithioedd yn gweithioedd yn gweithioedd yn g 'Gianusus Gig—and when I saw Phil Collins I thought it was the Antichrist. And so that kind of, I stopped me thinking, and I think in one of our songs called 'Mama' I do that. Yes. Right? With the light underneath. Yes. Looking like the Antichrist. Yes. I think when you're out of it, that would have been it. That would have done it. It probably was, actually. Yeah. How are you going to feel when you see him at this event? Well, I'm going to be quite jovial, quite nice to him, you know. What do you think of Oasis? Are you a fan of this? I mean, I prefer to listen to the Beatles. You know? And I put, because they remind me of the Beatles, that's why I say the Beatles. But I'm not, you know, I don't. Mick Jagger once said, when someone asked him about, what do you think of you, too? He said, I don't think of you, too. And I think that's really what I think about Oasis. Well, not just for some statistical comparison, Nol's solo career, he sold two million records. You sold 120 million as a solo artist. Yeah. Well, I didn't ask tell the story. If I was Nol's little guy on Nol's shoulder saying, you've got to remember that records when I was, you know, the 80s and early 90s, certainly the 70s and 80s. People bought records. They didn't download tracks and so it's a different complexion. I think the music industry is not the same as it was. And that's a shame, but it accounts for why someone can only have so many million sales. I got a billion an award for a Spotify billion plays for it in the air tonight, you know. And someone said to me, or someone sent me a text saying, that's listening to that one song 24 hours a day, seven days a week for like 735 years. So that's a lot of crazy thought, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, when you wrote in the air tonight, did you ever imagine? It was ever going to be as big as it was. No, I mean. Can you still listen to it with pleasure or? Well, I will listen to it tomorrow because there's a playback, an Atmos playback. No, I don't even have a stereo at home. You know, I listen to things on my phone. Do you? Yeah, I don't listen to music that much at all. But… It comes on the radio though. Are you proud? Are you pleased? Oh, no. Of course, I'm proud of it. And I'm very proud of the song. Is it your favourite of the songs you've ever heard? No, no. What's the one? If you literally, we had five minutes left together before the good Lord came knocking, which one would you play me? Of all your songs? Well, I would play a song called "I've forgotten everything," which was on both sides, which was my most personal album, written during a great sorrow. But yeah, that song, I remember very distinctly, I'd been – I went to see Harry Connick Jr. at the album, and he sang a hogey-comical song. I get along without him very well. It was a beautiful song. And I went back home. I was living on my own because I'd, you know, my divorce would be over, I'd been a separate. And I just wrote that song just came, and I didn't even write the words down. I just sang them. Really? Yeah. And that's how in the year tonight happened, too. You know, I mean, I just got a nice little drum machine pattern because, you know, it was a very basic machine, and you couldn't do that much with it. But I wrote a nice little thing that I liked, and I got a nice sound and started to play. And then, at home, this is all at home in my little studio, I – because of Genesis used to crowd things out, it was a very dense music sometimes. I wanted my music to sort of have a lot of space in it. So if you put a voice on early on, everything else has to fit. So I put the voice on early on, and I reached it, sang it in the studio, properly through a proper mic and everything, but I put the voice on with those lyrics, it just came out, I mean, 99% of them. Amazing. Yeah, I mean, to sometimes… Did you think, when you tell a story like that, do you understand that to mortals like me, it sounds like a genius at work? No. It's not a genius. But it is, though, in a way, isn't it? I mean, you have a gift. It's a genius, is it? I think all my lyrics come like that, I mean, not like that so much at one particular point, but they all come from sounds that I'm singing when I'm writing it, because you can hit certain notes with certain shapes of your mouth, you know. What's your favourite Genesis song? God, that's all difficult. The one I know, almost verbatim, because my brother, who, as you know, is a massive fan, that he's here watching this, but was supper's ready, was the one I listen to, on repeat from his bedroom for years. Where does that rank in your pantheon? Oh, I think it's got, I mean, it's up there in the Genesis, Top 15, Top 20. What's your top one, Genesis, the one? I don't know. I mean, there's a lot I don't like. Which song would you like to be like, if you were selling Genesis to a new generation, and this is what we were about, this song? Oh, I think, if you're going to talk about it, you know, to just, this is what we're about, I mean, supper's ready would be the animal, because it's, it's lots of little songs come together really. It's amazing piece of music. It's got some, I mean, it's got some pieces, which, in that song, which I still love very much to this day. There's a thing called Apocalypse in 98, which is an instrumental thing. And then the end, very triumphant, very elegant piece of music, those two pieces are, and they're joined together in the song, amongst my favourites. Did you feel very flattered when people like Taylor Swift cover your song? She covered, can't stop loving you. And before singing it, she said, it's literally the most sad, beautiful song ever. Yeah, I didn't like it. She used to scream single lyrics in a car when she first got her driver's license, but, you know, she's now the biggest pop star on the planet. Did you like that? Did you like those? Of course I do. Yeah, I mean, she, she copied my version. The song originally was, was not written by me, it was written by Billy, I'm so sorry, Billy. But you're last name. Reston, Joel. No. Ocean. I was written by an English guy. Anyway, he wrote it for Leo Sayer, well, Leo Sayer sang it. And Leo Sayer's version was, 'cause I can't stop loving you, it's like that, walks, you know. Billy Nichols, I'm talking. Billy Nichols, exactly. Great song. Anyway, I was in a, I was having a massage, actually, in Zermatt, in Switzerland. And that song came on the radio, the Waltz version, Leo Sayer's version. And I went into the steam room, and I started to sing it just like a police type thing. Because I can't, I mean, I remember the guys, I was singing it to myself and the guys in the steam room said, you know, shut up, you know, you're supposed to be quiet in it. So I couldn't get it out of my hand. I went home and did a demo of it, and then eventually we recorded it. So it's a different, it's a different song from the one Billy Nichols wrote, but I didn't write it. I wrote the middle one. What's the song of somebody else's you wish you'd wrote? I can't. Oh. I can't make you love me, I can't make you love me, and I don't know who wrote that either, but it's a standard, it's been around a long time, everybody's done it because it's such a beautiful, I can't stop you, I can't make you love me, turn down the light. What do you write? Yes, she had the best version of it, Bruce Horns, Bizon Piano, beautiful piano player. That is my favourite song that I wish I had written. I mean there's probably half a dozen Beatles songs I wish I had written too, but that. Well you mentioned the Beatles because you've been on a bit of a make up tour, your family, former Cartney is also one of them, you had a lot of falling out of them. What happened there and how did you make up? Okay, so it was the Queen's Jubilee concert at the Buckland Palace, and I was the house drummer for everybody except for McCartney and except for Brian Wilson, they had their own bands, but I played with everybody else. And I loved it, I mean I was like a pig and shit. We rehearsed for two weeks, everybody was coming in to play the stuff, and you know, it was great, from Aussie to Clapton to Ray Davis, everybody, but McCartney had his own band, which I understood, he'd just come off tour. I was backstage during the day before the show actually, we had a rehearsal at Buckland Palace, and I had a first edition Hunter Davis book, which was very quite rare, you know, first edition, I'd been given it to be given it to by Jill, my name is Lily's mum, and I took it to the rehearsal, so Paul could sign it. So I was sitting on the side of the stage and Paul came up behind with Heather Mills, who he was married to at that point, and I said, "Paul, could you sign this?" And he said, "Yeah, yeah, and he probably didn't mean it like it sounded, but he said he's a big big fan, it's our little film." And I thought, "Yeah, I saw." I couldn't help it, I just thought, I thought, I probably made more of it than he meant. I did make more of it, but when I was writing the book, and I wanted to write about how I felt about certain things. So patronised. And I knew Paul, you know, I mean, I wasn't the first time I'd met him, I'd played on one of his albums, I'd played a live with him with the Princess Trust, and what I'd given him an award, an award show in London, so I kind of knew him, you know. So I was kind of surprised at that particular tone of reply. So anyway, I wrote about in the book. Then I read, then the journalist was talking about that book in an interview. The interview came out, and Paul was reading that interview, and then he, yeah, and he mentioned that quote, so he hadn't read it in the book, I don't think, but he read it in the interview. And he wrote me an email saying, it's a bit of Saint Timonius, you know, I mean, what's what about about, you know, which I didn't reply to. So years went by, and there's things on YouTube, why does Paul McCartley hate Philip, otherwise? And it just came about because of this phrase, you know. Anyway, I get a message from the office, not long ago, about a month or two ago, saying Paul wanted my number. Is that okay? So I said, of course, give them a number. So he calls me on my phone. And the reason he called me, I found out, was because I'd written letters to everybody that I'd played with for items to donate to the King's Trust auction of which most people came back with some wonderful things. So the auction will be fantastic, it's in November, all the proceeds will go to the King's Trust. And he said, well, we're on the phone, and I thought, oh, here we go. So he said, well, he's all this about, I said, I wish I'd never said it, Paul, I wish I'd never said it. He said, I thought we were good, you know, I mean, it's not fair for me to tell you what anybody, what he said to me, but that's basically the gist of conversation. So we kissed and made up. I said, I was sorry, because I really didn't wish him to sort of, I mean, obviously this had been bugging him, because he likes to be liked, as we all do, you know, and maybe him more than some other person, but we all like to be liked, you know, I understand, and we kissed and made up. Was the real problem the word little, in calling you little Phil? That was the problem. That's what I thought, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a big battle, I think. A little bit. Yes. Just a little. A big Paul, little Phil. But I don't think he gave it much thought, which is, I don't know if that's good or bad. I don't think he probably did. A couple of quick things to win. Rod Stewart has announced he's retiring. Yeah. Next tour will be his last. What are your thoughts about Rod? Oh, and I met him just recently, I met him a couple of times, but I don't know him, but I met him again recently at the King's Trust Garden Party. Yeah, I mean, obviously, I was asked pretty well to pursue questions, how many hit singles is Rod Stewart at? That was the true of your particular, because, and I said 20, 25, it's like 50 or 60. Yeah. His back catalogue is incredible. Yeah. And he's an incredibly nice guy, actually. Yeah. And I, you know, we talked a bit about football, which we haven't got on to, which is a shame. Who's your team? Manchester United. I don't like to intrude in private grief, Phil, given that my team are the current champions. I know. I know. What do you think of this Manchester City thing? Well, I think it couldn't have happened to a nice bunch of people. No, what I have an issue with is that, again, on YouTube, you know, there's lots of articles about it, lots of clips, and they feature all the, you know, the players. I don't think the players know anything about this. No, I'm sure. It's all been done by Anderson. This is Olos. This is not even management. Should they be relegated, if it's established, as it seems to me, they were found guilty of 114 charges. Yeah. They should be relegated. I think so. Yeah. And I think just because, if who they are, and what they have done for English football, which is wonderful, I think they should be, you know, but that's not as a Manchester United. You support. And the only reason, the main reason anyway, though I'm a Manchester United supporter, was because I used to take the boys who were big, Ronaldo fans. I used to take them to Old Trafford. I used to fly over from Switzerland and do, you know, they took care of us. Alex Ferguson was a wonderful, wonderful to the kids. Ronaldo was nice, you know, met a few of the other players. So it's because of the kids, really, and now, of course, they're grown up, and Matthew's playing, for God's sake. So, um. Well, I'm sorry that you're nice at a crap these days, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sorry. Phil, I can talk to you for hours. This has been brilliant to catch up with you, honestly, after all this time. You're welcome, anytime. Come back. I love to have you. I love the fact you watched the show, great to see you're looking so well, after all you've been through. I'm good looking. Looking happy. Yeah, I'm not a little on my own, you know. Yeah, I know you do, yeah. It's my last thing I want to say. I have somebody else to thank for my health, for the fact that I'm here at all. I have an assistant, there was the nanny for Matthew when he, and Nicholas, when they were growing up. When they grew up, Orienne actually suggested that she become my secretary, my assistant, and she's been with me for 20 years. What's her name? Lindsay. Lindsay. She's here watching this, but I just wanted, because without her, her, I would not be here, without a doubt. I would not be here. She has sacrificed so much to help me with my health. I have a physio, Melissa, who takes me through things three times a week. So yeah, I'm happy. I live on my own, Lindsay works for me, I have a 24 hour nurse, 24/7 nurse, to make sure I behave myself in terms of pill, pill-taken, I mean, I don't drink a drop. Obviously, but yeah, I'm very happy and happy to be here. - Great to see you. - Yeah. - Really is. - Thanks very much for coming in. - My pleasure. - Cheers. - Peace Morgan on Sensor is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. We enjoy our show. We also own you one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Peace Morgan on Sensor on Spotify and Apple Podcast. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.