434. "I lost my brother at 16 to suicide, it shouldn't have happened" ft. Ben West

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers. If you haven't heard, our new podcast is called "Hey Jonas." And this week we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of. Millie Bobby Brown. We talk about her new movie and all of Home's three family life and all the amazing things she has going on right now. Plus we find out what she really feels about this ranger thing's ending. You have over 60 animals. I don't know where the number 60 I really got to figure that out. There have been plenty of sheep in my bed. It's a big bed. Literally sleeping in the bed. Listen to "Hey Jonas" on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jake Brenn. And on the Discretsland Podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars in unbelievable true crime stories for music history. These are the stories you haven't heard. The kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison where the bizarre crime Lady Gaga's accused of, or that time blondie's Debbie Harry escaped Ted Bunny. Listen to Discretsland on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now. There's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, "How to Copy." If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on air chats. Open your free I Heart Radio app search, "Joy 101" and listen now. Joy 101 with "How to Copy" is presented by CVS. My first guest is Paris Hilton. Shakira. Luke and Yerin. Have some prices. Mm-hmm. Many surprises. Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast where the new tech comes to life. What the f***? You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst. Lemonade. This is Sweet 305. Here, oversharing is encouraged. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lille Ponds on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. My husband is a desparizer with his mistress right now, and I'm calling the hotel to confront them both. Wait a minute to go to she's calling the hotel while they're checked in together. Yeah, that's right, Sophia. And it gets worse. It's "Veicate the Vacation Week" on the "OK Storytime" podcast where she caught him buying gifts on Amazon and then taped the 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. So she planted evidence before he even took off? And spoiler, Sophia, two years later, Karma hits so hard he's calling his ex-wife in tears, saying about his mistress. What a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the "OK Storytime" podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Before we begin today's episode, I just want to note that this conversation includes discussions around suicide, grief, and mental health. Please just take care while listening, and if anything has brought up some heavy or difficult feelings today, reach out to somebody you trust, or seek support from a mental health professional or crisis service in your area. As always, we will have links and resources in the description. You do not have to go through these hard moments alone, so please reach out to somebody that you love. Hello, everybody. I'm Gemma Speck, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our 20s, and what they mean for our psychology. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here back for another episode. Today's episode is a really special one because we are joined by someone whose work has opened up some incredibly important conversations around mental health, grief, masculinity, vulnerability, for, if I'm being honest, an entire generation of young people. Today, I'm joined by Ben West. You may know him through his advocacy work following the loss of his younger brother. Since then, he's launched his movement reasons to stay to help guide strangers through difficult times. But beyond that, beyond the public work, Ben is also somebody who is deeply thoughtful. He has an amazing perspective on being human, on friendship, purpose, pain, and hope. And we are so excited to have him on. Ben, welcome to the Psychology of Your 20s. Thank you so much for having me here. I'm so excited for this chat. Yeah, and it took you a second to get here. We were recording it on a day of a crazy Tuesday. Every rule of transport into London was just, nope, today's not my day. And you know, it's funny when you work in mental health, you're constantly talking about like coping and relieving stress. And then suddenly, all the trains are stuck and you have to like practice what you preach and try not to get frazzled by London transport by them here. You came in cool, common, collected inside. I'm like a duck. Yeah, you're just like going on the water. Well, this is the thing that I found since moving to London as I become very angry. And I have to really kind of raise many things. Yeah, just the smallest stuff. I'm like, the world is a terrible awful place. And then the weather as well, like it's always, it always comes together. You've got wind, rain, trains, a late. Someone's, someone spills coffee on you. Yeah. Or it's really difficult to try and get out of that funk. Yeah. And then like a light is flickering and you're like, I just want to lay down. And you know what? I used to be not to go straight in with the psychology, but I used to be really bad at having that happen. And then immediately writing off the day and getting into a bad mood. And it actually came up when I was going through therapy like that. Like bad days would just take over and become bad days. And it was that. It was that experience that actually I started my first rule I have with myself, which is that if it's a bad day, you have to do something good. And so it was something we came up to within therapy, which was like, I always just had some, as soon as bad things happen, I just form the mindset that it was a bad day. And so I have this rule where you have to do something good. So that's something simple, like talking to a shopkeeper in the shops or texting a friend, young spoken to in a while, or just doing something good or being happy to see someone. And then as soon as you've done that, you've taken the power away from the bad day. So not to go straight in with the psychology, but this is very, very relevant to something that I love it. It's one of my two important rules that I live by. Okay, well, I have two follow-up questions. Number one is what are you going to do today? I haven't decided yet. I feel like this is quite a good thing to do. Well, this is what I'm going to do. Yeah, no, I think I'm going to an event later, which will be really good. So I think that will be my good thing for today. And that's supporting an amazing charity. And it's going to be such a lovely evening. So I feel like that will be my good thing today. But even if it's just literally going into the shops and forcing yourself to get into shops and then talk, let's see, talk to the person that check out. It always makes the day better. Yeah. And what's your second rule? My second rule is because of the nature of my job and we'll get into this, I talked to a lot of people about some really awful stuff. And some other rule is that I'm still thinking about a conversation two weeks later, I have to talk to someone about it. And I don't give myself the choice. Because you know, some of the conversations I have with people are fairly harrowing. Yeah. And usually I'm quite good at processing that. But yeah, if I'm still thinking about it, I was thinking about them two weeks later, I have to talk to someone about that conversation. And it just takes my choice away. So I know then I'm like, I've been two weeks, I need to text my counsellor, I need to go and book some time in and talk about this. Yeah. It sort of takes that opportunity to push the can down the road away from me. I used to have this when I used to do, this is, we are going in. Oh my god. I used to do interviews for the Australian government on child maltreatment. Wow. And as in like calling people up and being like, you know, tell me about what you've been through. And I was so, I wish I had that rule. Because my rule was just like, if I had a bad call, I'd go and eat a kind of bueno. Yes. And I think that when we made my, I've gotten to a really bad habit. Yes, like classic conditioning. Oh my goodness. I was just going to say that even now, like thinking of it yesterday, I had a bad day and I went and got a kind of bueno. And I was like, we cannot go back down this road. You're a kind of one of the kind of bueno. Yeah, one to go. I'm the kind of one of the kind of, texting counselor, kind of bueno. I love a kind of one of the kind of. I know. It's so good. Can you briefly, you know what? I did not even ask you to introduce yourself. Okay. We've gone straight in. Can you briefly introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about who you are as a person, how people might know you or they don't know you who you are. Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Ben. I am a mental health campaigner. The fact that I'm introducing myself as a mental health campaignist is still weird because it's not something I ever thought I'd have to do. Growing up, I didn't know anything about mental health. No one had ever talked to me about mental health. And the first time it really came up in my life was when my mum told me that my little brother Sam had been diagnosed with depression. And that was the first time I'd ever really heard what that was. I didn't really know anything more about it. So I never spoke to Sam and then very sadly in January 2018, Sam took his own life and died at the age of 15 years old. And I was 17. And obviously through that experience, I very quickly realised that the significance of what my mum had told me in September. And also through speaking to my friends and people at school realised how many people were affected by this sort of thing. And my plan in life at that moment was to go to university, study engineering and then go to the armed forces and fly helicopters. Well, that was my plan. Very pretty, very cold. And it's not what I'm doing. As you can see. tell. But I realized very quickly that you know what happened to Sam shouldn't have happened. And there were there were small things that could have been different. And it felt like I had a opportunity to change those small things for other people and pick up this sort of pattern that Sam left behind in terms of wanting to create change and do my best. So I'm a mental health campaign and I've been doing this for eight years. People probably, if you've heard my name, you've probably heard it in association with my project I launched this year called Reasons to Stay, which I'm sure will get into more. But essentially it's a suicide prevention project sending letters to people thinking about suicide, giving them reasons to stay. But you know my work goes far beyond that. The reason I'm dressed so smartly is I've been I work in policy. So I do a lot of work with the government around NHS and health care for people with mental health and education and mental health. So basically mental health is what I live and breathe. It's not something that I ever thought I'd go into but it's something you know it is everything I do. And you know every day I think about Sam and what happened to him and my family and I go to work because we absolutely I believe that we can change the system that lets so many people down and that's what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. That's what I've decided. This is all I'm going to do. Yeah, which is usually insane. But you had such pride in your eyes when you said that. Can you tell me a bit about Sam? Some of your memories about him and what kind of what he was like. Yeah. Sam was wonderful. He was very funny. And the sort of humor he had was like you didn't know quite whether you were allowed to laugh. He was always just like on the edge of something really dark and awful. He had quite a dark sense of humor but it was just so funny. And even his friends like at school, they always said as he was such a like class clown, he'd try and make the whole class laugh. He was very very talented in art and music. So like he was 15 when he was you know basically producing whole film scores on his laptop. Loved hands-in-a and film and film scores and music and film. He was also like he painted a lot and just the most phenomenal painter. And one of my favourite memories back then of us is because it was me, Sam and another brother Tom, he was my youngest brother. And we used to just sound like some art and he'd just bring us in on the right of the end to help with something. And we were absolutely terrible. I'm so jealous of Sam's talent with art because I can't draw, I can't paint, I would love to be able to paint but I can't. I struggled so much with it. He was very very talented. But I think the big thing with Sam that I means a lot now looking back as he just had, he was like an emotional sponge, he just he just absorbed all the emotion around him, he was such an empath and he cared so much about other people. And he's that sense of like social justice of if someone was being picked on or bullied, he would feel so like powerfully that that was unjust. And he'd take a lot of that emotion on which obviously must have been a lot for him to take on his shoulders. But he just had this really strong sense of right and wrong and he was felt emotions and he felt other people's emotions really strongly. Which obviously meant that when he was struggling he felt very passionate about other people feeling seen as well through their struggles. And that's sort of why I feel like I want to do what I do now is because when he was struggling he wanted other people to feel understood and for things to be better for them and he never got the chance to sort of do this. And I know that absolutely if Sam had survived he would have gone on to become a metal-out campaigner. He probably was sitting in this chair talking to you. He would have done a phenomenal job. And I always say to you well I'm like unfortunately you have got the second best option but I will do my absolute best to sort of do what I think Sam would want to do. And that is to show up, to tell our story, be vulnerable, be honest, make people feel seen but also push for the change that stops people getting support and stops people getting in education. So yeah I've tried to be better at art and I've tried to be better at music but I know that one talent and one thing that means absolute share is that absolute social justice right and wrong empathy for people that don't deserve to feel the way they do and not have the support that so many people don't have nowadays. I feel like does your younger brother have that as well? Yeah. He will do. I think. I was going to say I feel like that would be a very strong through line from like your parents. Yeah I definitely think so and they've in my parents obviously reacted in a similar way to Sam dying when terms of like trying to change things and provide support which a lot of people do when when something awful happens and it's it's nice that we're all sort of on the same page. Yeah that was so bad that we're going to make sure it never happens again. We're all very aligned on that. So this interesting thing from Jack Antonov, do you know who that is? No. Okay he's a music producer, not important. But he said that when you're experiencing grief is when your purpose becomes the clearest because nothing else matters. Yeah. And that kind of sounds like what that's what's happened to you. You know through that. Yeah definitely. I think there's so many reasons why I do what I do now but one of them is definitely that it's hurt so much that I think it pain without a meaning is very difficult to cope with because it feels like what is this all for? I mean and it hurts so much. It's still you know it's still still a horrible horrible thing to have gone through and it doesn't make it less painful but it does make that experience feel like it's worth something and you know I get the absolute privilege of hearing from people who have been you know materially changed and helped by work that I've been involved in or contributed to and I remember little 17 year old me sat at school with my friends trying to work out what we were going to do to change the world and over time you realised that actually changing the world and creating that much impact in reality happens in really quiet moments with people and if you can stop one person from taking a life or you get the right support to one person the ripple effect of that over time is absolutely enormous and so you know like I remember just thinking back now to a 17 year old me not knowing what I was meant to do or how I was going to turn this awful experience into something that was good he would not believe what we've done over the last eight years it's been the most extraordinary powerful meaningful journey and I can say that now with a smile on my face like it has it my story is so sad but it's got to position now where it's a really happy positive journey and that I didn't I didn't believe that was ever possible so that's that's so pretty that's pretty is the wrong word no it's yeah I know and it's only sometimes that you actually reflect and go yeah there were you know when Sam died I honestly didn't think anything good would ever happen to me again I don't know how to describe it except that I just thought my life was always going to be great yeah and I just didn't think anything would be fun or funny or positive and so it's quite I profound to be able to sit here now and say this is great I love what I do I feel joy almost every day and that that's been quite quite the journey together but it's very meaningful hey everyone it's the Jonas Brothers if you haven't heard our new podcast is called hey Jonas and this week we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of millie bobby brown that's right 11 herself we talk about her new movie and all of home's three family life and all the amazing things she has going on right now this is my mind when I saw this millie bobby brown you have over 60 animals first of all how do you even keep track of everybody in second do you have favorites who are they and why yeah I need to know about this okay I don't know where the number 60 I really got to figure that out and I could actually have over 60 I just need to really know that number there have been plenty of sheep in my bed and yeah in the bed literally sleeping in the bed yeah plus we find out what she really feels about stranger things in five seasons almost 10 years of your life I could have never have guessed it I started when I was 10 years old our conversation with millie bobby brown is out now go check it out listen to hey Jonas on the iHeart Radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast hey I'm hoda kata be host of the podcast joy 101 with hoda kata okay if you know me you know this I'm always searching for inspiration for support and useful tools to help maximize joy so this podcast lets us uncover all of that together we're gonna have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice, but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy 101 with HotaCott B on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Discrease Land podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars in unbelievable true crime stories for music history. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that. Your Paul McCartney, it's 1980. You're an ex-beetle. In your doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons, right there alongside Yakuza Gangsters and for a ridiculous charge. Or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga has accused them. Who is the artist Lady Gaga is being accused of doing the unthinkable to? After allegedly stealing her music in style to become famous? And what about that time Blondie's Debbie Harry escaped a serial killer? The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to Discrease Land on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin. Samira and Gracie! I'm so excited! On the bouncy bed! You have surprises. Many surprises. Welcome to sweet 305 where the good chat comes to life. What up? It's like a form of a saying like "Hola amiga, hola mejor amiga, hola hermana, hola!" Mira, I've never seen anyone like this. Except with my kids, my kids know. You're the only person I know that loves the yellow starbursts. It's woman! This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Ponds as part of my culture podcast network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. My husband is currently on vacation with his mistress and I'm confronting them. Tell me Sophia, how did she even catch them? One Amazon shopping receipt. He accidentally sent her a photo of the kid's Christmas gifts with a delivery to another woman at the bottom. He exposed himself? That's a rookie move. Couples massages, monogrammed bath robes, and lingerie he met motor for. So she spent four weeks gathering evidence and taped a 10 page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. In his luggage, she came to plan. And the second he landed, he blocked her. So she called the hotel room directly and got the mistress on the phone. Ooh, she got the mistress live on the phone. That is a bold move. Let's see if it pays off. That it gets worse. He took the mistress on the Bahamas honeymoon trip. He had planned with his wife. And then the mistress tagged him on Facebook, outing the fare to her entire family. That's like a whole public confession. And spoiler two years later, karma hit some so hard he's calling his ex-wife into your saying about the mistress. To find out what happened, listen to the okay story time podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And you know what, I'm sure somebody's listening to this right now who's probably in the early stages of grief being like, this is always going to be it. And I think it's just a really nice thing to hear somebody say that. Even people with like a bit of anticipatory grief as well, probably listening to me like, oh yeah. Can I actually ask you about that a little bit more? Sure. I think you explained it very well. But how is your grief changed? Like when you first, I'm guessing found out through your mom or through a parent to that first year to now. Like what's been the different things that you've learned throughout the years about loss? Yeah. I mean, losing Sam was not only awful in terms of the grief of losing a brother that you didn't expect, obviously. But also through how he died in suicide. It was incredibly traumatic for me, particularly. And so actually the beginning, it's very difficult to determine like what was grief and what was trauma, trauma response. But I, you know, I was very affected at the beginning. Like, didn't know what was up or down. I felt like I was just stuck in this washing machine. There was a constant on different cycles of all over the place. Didn't sleep very much. I didn't eat for about four days. I just was so confused on my body. I was like rejecting what I'd gone on. I was like, they're so bad that you just reject what happened. So the point where like I went to school the day off to sound died. Did you really? Were your teachers? Yeah, they were completely completely shocked to see me. Yeah. What about your friends? Are they? Are you completely? Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they just thought it because everyone at school had been told that day. They probably thought like, what is this sick joke? Ben's just honestly, I got in my car and I went to school and I went in and I just ran over to my friends and I was like, Hey, how's everyone doing? Like nothing happened because my brain was just like, no, this is not, this is not happened. I'm going to do what I'd normally do and just pick myself school. And I lasted about an hour and then I was exhausted. Yeah. The shock of adrenaline and shock just wearing off. Yeah, but it was like that for a while and then you slowly learn and I think the best way I can describe it and I've described it as to other people is that like it's a flame. It's like a fire, like a bomb fire when when grief it you're standing so close to it that like you, that you can't notice anything but this intense heat that's coming from it. And everyone says time heals. I don't, it's not straightforward as that. But I do think with time you just get distance from the flame, that fire. So the it's still there and sometimes you notice it but the heat, the feeling of the intensity of that heat just feels less and less extreme. So it's not the pain that you that makes you notice that this happened, but it's just sort of going into a room you haven't been in too sensitive. I had all the things would remind you it's there. I think that's the best way I've had to describe it. It's just the intensity of those feelings starts to just get less and less extreme with time. And that's definitely what I felt. And then I, you know, eventually got the courage to seek professional support, which was scary but amazing. And then dealt with a lot of the trauma that I'd not really dealt with. And EMDR therapy, which I thought was amazing and I managed to deal with a lot of that. And then you get to a position where you know, you actually feel like you've got to handle back on things. And I knew because I think a lot of the time I was maybe in the passenger seat. Yeah. I'm not really fully in control of what was going on and just sort of going from moment to moment. Actually interestingly, not to go off on points, but one of the funny experience of grief that I had, not funny, but it's like unexpected. A chuckle on my ass. Yeah. Head andism, like this absolute intense need for fun. And like just, I started university in like September, so a few months after Sam died. And it was literally just like the chasing fun. And going out and like trying to just basically block everything out by having just hedonistic out there, like behavior, which I think is so interesting because at the time I thought I was doing really well because I was having fun. And I looked back and I was like, I was actually just like chasing thrills trying to escape, like feeling on my own or feeling low. And that was an interesting, that was an interesting observation I did not see in the time. So in years later I was like, whoa, I was really unwell when that was happening. And probably a lot of drinking. Yeah. And it's also that's just like the imagine being, well, you don't have to imagine you're like, how old were you 18 at freshers week? And I know you guys call it that. Just being like a week, just being like great. I have this gaping emotional wound and I have a gallon of liquor. Yeah. Seems like everyone around you. Everyone around you is having your great. And that looks like the normal thing to do. Yeah. But like, wow. When do you think you came out of like the hedonistic like, I'm just gonna live by my young stage? Do you think it was like after your first year or? I think it was COVID lockdown. So what's that? Three years, two, two and a half, three years afterwards. Only when you're forced to not do that anymore. And I was on my own in COVID. So I was in a flat that was about, it's probably not much bigger than this studio. Wow. And I had to do 10 and 10 days on my own. And oh, that was tough. That was really tough. It was just, did you have? I had it. I got infected. You got infected. So I was stuck. And then on my own, I remember the only person I saw in 10 days was someone pushed batteries for my next box controller through the box of the door. - Well, you were at uni? - Yeah. - You were in a dorm room. - And like a little room. And that was intense. And so I thought that experience, like I actually was okay. I was fine. I was like coped. I was okay. But it just made you sort of, it took you away from everything that you usually kept to make yourself okay. And I was very lucky that I had support through counselling at that time. I was doing virtually. So I was like, you start to go, oh, this sort of thing that I've put myself up on, it's fun. Oh, it's not there anymore. I'm actually really not okay. So that was quite an interesting experience for me. Just being forced to stay in my room. And then I left uni. - Oh yeah, 'cause you're doing it. - This is not happening. This is actually, now I've stepped out of this. I'm really not very well. - Yeah. - And then I left and sort of started to make some real changes in my life to sort of get back in control. Which, so actually it was like, it was quite a good experience in a way. - It sounds like a bit of a circuit breaker. - It was, yeah, in a weird way. - It wasn't recommend. It was awful, but it was like, it was also needed. - Yeah. - 'Cause you started doing a lot of reflection on how I was living and what I was doing. And then I'm not really dealing with anything. And then it was like, hmm, this is an interesting moment of noticing all of that. - Yeah. And then like another deeply traumatic moment probably where it's like great. So my life that I'm trying to rebuild is gonna be completely like ripped apart and we'll move on to the next thing. - Yeah. And that, the idea, and it was very confusing as well because I was in the moment of all of the plans I had in my life of what I wanted to do. I was still sort of doing because I didn't, it was too late to change my degree or whatever. So I was like, still on that plan, but realizing more and more that it's not really what I wanted to do. And so there was a whole, it was just very confusing. Very, very confusing. - Do you remember like the first time after Sam passed away that you and your family like were like together and were like laughing and were able to like have a bit of a glimmer? - That's a really good question. That's a really good question. It took a long, long time to feel normal as a family. You know, so many times you'd go and lay the table and you'd carry like five sets of forks and knives over or five set places. And that happens so many times to me. And even like talking about him took a long time to feel normal. I don't actually, I think it might have been Christmas weirdly 'cause that's quite a difficult time for grief when you can sort of get a little bit of room. I was also actually, it was probably not. I said when I was at school, when Sam died, I realized very quickly that I wanted to do something positive. And so I organized something called Walk to Talk, which was basically this 200 kilometer walk that me and my friends were gonna do to raise money and we would invite to the whole school and if people wanted to come and walk, whole thing they could come, if they wanted to walk one day, they could come and walk with us. And I basically designed it to be fun and colorful and real celebration of talking and mental health as opposed to it being like a ceremony. And that was great. Like we had bright pink t-shirts and we were talking about Sam every day and it was fun and my family got involved loads. So I think that was probably a good moment where we could really just sort of, I don't know, feel like the subject of suicide and losing Sam wasn't necessarily this dark, awful thing that we can't go near. It's like, actually we're all dressed in pink and we have a good time talking about Sam and talking about something that's positive and getting around that. So that was a really, that was a nice moment. - Where did you guys walk in London? That's 200 kilometers? - No, so we walked from where I grew up in Kent, sort of mid- Kent all the way to London, which actually isn't 200 kilometers but we were like, it was near enough 200 kilometers, it was about 170, so we were like, let's just add 30 and round it up. - Classic, yeah. - Absolutely. So it's 200 kilometers over 10 days in September 2018 and it was that was the only other did it to raise a bit of money and then before I went to uni and that was the walk really, that was the event that I really want to do this for the rest of my life. Like I really saw the impact that you can have on other people's lives by having something, some of the people that came on that walk, you know, it went to just spoke to their family about things that were going on their life for the first time ever, you know, to be able to be the one to make someone feel comfortable enough to have those conversations and know how important that is. I just, yeah, you can't not help someone make that step and not want to then keep helping other people make that step and get the right support. So it was really that was the formation for everything that came since. - Wow, well this is a great segue. - Yeah, it's inter-reasons to stay. Which is, when did you launch this project? - January. - January. - Four months ago, three months ago. - That's it. - It's just huge. - That is amazing. 'Cause it has touched so many lives so quickly. Do you want to talk about it? - I would love to talk about it. - Talk to me about the idea behind it. - So I've worked in this space for eight years. I've spoken to more people that have felt suicidal or looked after someone's suicidal than I can count. I mean, so many people. And the one thing I've realized with mental health is that unlike other social issues, it's very difficult for the general public to feel like they're practically involved in helping. So with climate change, you can recycle more. You can take public transport, ride a bike, and you can feel like you're practically involved in the solution. With mental health, unless you're a clinical professional or involved somewhere clinically, it's very difficult for you to actually help. And I've always thought that it would be good to find a way to connect the millions and millions and billions of people around the world that care about this issue and want to help with the millions or billions of people that need to be cared for. So that's the first point. And the second point is the human race has a lot of problems, and it's difficult to feel good about us sometimes, especially in the world. - It's a bit of a heart-and-stament. - Yeah, right. But the one thing that I think is absolutely phenomenal about us as a species is that when there is a catastrophe, people that don't know each other will drop everything and run to help. And I think that is so remarkable and amazing. Is this instinct to just help strangers that we all, most of us have, which I think is just incredible. And I think it's the most amazing thing about being human being is that you can feel such deep empathy for someone you don't know. We always say that about elephants, and then forget that actually we do the same thing. And so those two things sort of came together and I was like, well, we've got a problem with suicide. We've got a lot of people that want to help. How can you let strangers help in a way that's clinically safe? And that's where reasons to stay came from. So essentially, anyone in the world can write a letter on the site. That then goes to our clinical moderation team. They make sure everything's safe, publish it, and then anyone can go on and read one of these letters and have them deliver to them. And that was the idea. And I'd launched it this year in January, on the 21st of January, which is the anniversary of Sam's death, because that was my good thing that day. That's a way it's a bad day. So I was like, you need a hefty good thing to get through that day. - And a major one. - You need a big thing. - You need a big people to hear about this thing. - Yeah, and so, yeah, I launched that for no reason, other than I thought it was a good idea. And I had very little expectation. It was a project that I wanted to work on in behind the scenes and sort of just really love to grow. I thought we'd maybe send 100 letters that week and we sent 33,000. And then by mid-February, we'd sent a million. And as of now, we've sent 3.6 million letters to people in 180 countries in, what's that, just over three months? It's been, we've reached 70 million people on social media with this project. It's just been like beyond anything I could possibly imagine. And I guess it goes to show that instinct of millions of people want to help was absolutely true. And it just, it worked. - Oh my God. - That is gave me chills. That is the coolest story I've probably ever heard on the podcast, isn't it? - Oh, bless you. - So amazing. - It's been pretty incredible to see unfold in front of me. And at every moment, particularly in those early days, where it was so intense, all the milestones just felt massive. First, 100,000 was huge. And then it was a million. And then has most people that if you know me, will know me for a video I posted when I first heard that it helped someone. - Yeah. - And my reaction to what that meant to me when I found out that someone had very literally survived because they read a letter, read a letter rather. You know, all those moments, just for just, it was, I feel like every day I watched it, climb to just enormous numbers and it was just I was pinching myself constantly. What are you gonna do for 10 million? I've got no idea party. 200 kilometer walk. That was the right answer. 10 million and you know what? What's absolutely mad is that will happen. I was gonna say it will happen this year. I think it will happen. It will happen soon. Very soon. So it's, you know, it's, it, which is extraordinary, but it's also just such a nice reminder that like, it's so bad or this is what's happening. Yeah. At the end of the day, like there are always reasons to stay, but there are always reasons to feel positive about the world. And it doesn't, you don't have to feel suicidal to benefit from reasons to stay this I, I go on there. You read a letter and you feel better about yourself and the world and this human race that we all are a part of. You just cannot go on that website and not feel better about the state of the world and who you are and you were part in it. And I just think that's so wonderful just because, you know, I have, I do have this just love of people and what we can do for each other. And it just is such an amazing, and I had no idea this was going to be like this. I really genuinely put, you know, I put thought into it, but I didn't put this much thought into it and to see what it's become and see how much it means to people. It's been a very, very, very special. Yeah. We got to do it. 10 million. Well, come back for 10 million. I, someone we needed the, the population of the world needs to give you a huge thank you for that. Oh, thank you. Hey, everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers. If you haven't heard, Arnie podcast is called Hey Jonas. And this week we're hanging out with someone where really big fans of Millie Bobby Brown. That's right. 11 herself. Of course. Blue my mind when I saw this, Millie Bobby Brown. First of all, how do you even keep track of everybody? And second, do you have favorites? Who are they and why? Yeah, I need to know about this. Okay. I don't know where the number 60 and I really got to figure that out and I could actually have over 60. I just need to really know that number. There have been plenty of sheep in my bed and, yeah, in the bed, literally sleeping in the bed, yeah. Plus we find out what she really feels about stranger things anyway. Five seasons, almost 10 years of your life. I could have never guessed it. I started when I was 10 years old. Our conversation with Millie Bobby Brown is out now. Go check it out. Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Hota Kotby, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hota Kotby. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. I've gone through breast cancer and it helped my mother through breast cancer and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum retrashing. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. Listen to Joy 101 with Hota Kotby on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Brennan. And on the Discretsland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars in unbelievable true crime stories from music history. Imagine that. Your Paul McCartney. It's 1980. You're an ex-beetle. And you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons right there alongside Yakuza Gangsters and for a ridiculous church. Or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of. Who is the artist Lady Gaga is being accused of doing the unthinkable to after allegedly stealing her music in style to become famous? Listen to Discretsland on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin, Samira and Gracie. I'm so excited. On the bouncy bed. You have surprises. Many surprises. What up? What up? It's like a form of a sweet, like, "Hola amiga. Hola mejor amiga. Hola hermana. What up?" Look, I've never seen her talk with anyone. Except you with my children. My children, yes and yes. Yes. She's my lover. Oh! Oh! Oh! She's incredible. She's a new girl. You're the only person I know that loves the Yala Starbursts. It's woman. No, it's not someone who needs you, as I said, I would like to work with this person. This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Ponds as part of my tour of podcasts in network on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tell me, Sophia, how did she even catch them? He exposed himself. Couples' massages, monogrammed bath robes, and lingerie, he met motor for. In his luggage, she came to play. That is a bold move. That gets worse. He had planned with his wife and then the mistress tagged him on Facebook, outing the fare to her entire family. And spoiler two years later, karma hit some so hardy's calling his ex-wife, interiors, saying about the mistress, "What a mistake that was." To find out what happened, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHAR radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's say, way, I imagine, and we were talking about this before we were recording, that sometimes it's hard to talk about mental health all the time. And that you're probably, you know, very much the mental health guy online, you know, you've done this incredible thing. You're not going to give that up for anything. But in your personal life as well, I'm sure a lot of people are like, "Oh, this has been, been five a problem I can go to, been." Strange to probably think that. What's, is that hard sometimes? Yes, extremely hard. Yes, extremely, extremely hard. Because also I'm in this because I care so much. So it's very difficult not to feel like you have to always talk about it. And look, I'm going to do this for the rest of my life. But it's also really important for me to know when is work and when it's not. And with social media, especially recently, it's been very, very difficult to step away from that and have me because at the end of the day, I'm Ben. So most of my life, I haven't talked about this and I have a whole, you know, personal that is built on not having to talk about mental health every day. And I think sometimes he needs to just enjoy and laugh. And you know, there is lots of positive and fun moments in this journey. There are also lots of incredibly devastating, sad, hard work hours and bad things that happen. I don't think it's healthy for anyone to be experiencing that all the time. And you know, when reasons to stay weren't viral, I got 50,000 messages in one day. And it's just like on a level that you, it's just not normal to be, and most of those were incredibly sensitive information about what someone was going through. You know, and I was scrolling through almost all of them were, this is why this matters to me. It's just an amazing, incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, incredibly sensitive information. And I think that's what I'm going to do. Thank you. - I've got some fun ones. - I'm sure, I'm sure. But you know what I mean? I don't, it must be the same with you sometimes, where it's like, obviously it's hugely important, but sometimes it's important to just remember that it's like one part of me. - Yeah. - And I also have my own mental health, which sometimes you forget. - That's the hard part. I think when people think of you as this person who has it all sorted out since you're talking about it openly, and it's like, I'm still really trying to figure it out myself. I get that a lot when I like, and it was interesting, it's not a regular problem to have. - No. - It's not like too many people trust me. - Yeah. - You know, oh, I'm doing too good a job at helping people, but it is, I definitely have a similar experience, where sometimes I've got to not talk about psychology. And it's hard to sometimes friends will come to you and be like, and you want to be there for them, and that sometimes means being less present online so that you have the resources to shop, wherever you may need it. - Yeah, for sure, for sure. And it's just about trying to protect yourself, at the end of the day, where the difficult topic. And this goes for, and I'm very lucky, obviously, that I've been doing this a long time, so I know a lot of people that work in a similar area, and not just mental health campaigning, but sort of loads of different areas of social issues, which are all difficult to experience, right, and to work in. So if sort of learn a lot from them, and we support each other right, 'cause no one can talk about bad things all the time. Which actually in fairness is one of the reasons that I wanted to start a reasons to stay, because in my work, you talk a lot about bad things. I do a lot of policy work, I do a lot of work with data, and with mental health in Parliament. And it's never, you're never talking about it because things are going well. - That's a very good point. - Right. - And I think for me, I'm not like that. I'm always been a glass-huffful fun. I like fun, I like optimism. And so I, reason to stay, came about, because I was desperate to do something fun and positive, and like something that's a good thing to talk about. And reason to stay is such a good thing to talk about. So it's like, I, that was part of it as well, which is that I needed a way of doing something that was positive, rather than what it was before, which was constantly talking about. You know, for a long time, I was working on a campaign that was trying to improve negligence laws. I'm like, negligence is never a conversation that is ever positive. Like, no positive thing ever leads to a negligence conversation. - Yeah. - So it's like, that's basically sums up sort of what the conversations I was having. I was always about death and failure and negligence. And you were like, that is not, that is not particularly upbeat. - No. - It's very, very important, but you need the balance. - Yeah, and now you found it. - I do. - And probably like one of the reasons why you, like you as an optimistic person, like this can only come from the brain of an optimistic person. Do you know what I mean? - Yeah, it's a good point. - So it's kind of like, you feel like you found the way that just shows how many people were hungering for somebody to be like, can we talk about mental health in a way that isn't, it's hard, right? It's to find a positive spin and not that we should, but just in a way that it's proactive and positive and meaningful. - Positive without being invalidating as a girl. - Yeah, perfect way of saying it. - Because you can be positive about this, but come across like you're just quite making fun of someone or belittling something. But this is positive in a way of like, it's really awesome that we can do something for each other. And you know what, if you go on there and write a letter, you'll feel good about yourself and you'll feel a lot of you're part of the thing. And it'll be just, everything about it is just phenomenally positive from every perspective. And that's awesome to be part of. - It's just hope. Like that's the truth. I'm like, I was trying to think, it's not optimistic, it's not part of this, just hopeful. - Well, that is, at the end of the day, that is the reason to stay, right? The reason stay only exists when there's hope. And when there's no hope, then there's no reason to stay. So all we're trying to do in that moment is give someone something, some little tiny, little spark of hope to get them through that moment. And that, for a lot of people, is what that letter represents. And I just think that, you know, I know that in the three and a half million people that have read a letter, I know that so many of them really feel connected to that person that's written a letter. And it's almost like, and I knew this when I was designing actually that there's just something I wanted people to feel. It's almost like somewhere there is, you're a letter writer, they're real, they're out there. And it's like you've got this guardian angel with this person that you don't know and will never meet. There's just sort of cheering you on. And I just think there's something quite beautiful in that being your reason to stay. When everything else in your life is absolute chaos, and you've got no hope, you've got that person who's written your letter because they care. And if you have no other reason to stay, they can be that reason. I think that is a very, very, very powerful thing to give someone that maybe has nothing, or just, or feels like they have nothing. - And also just a sense of like, oh, somebody cares about me. Like somebody is thinking about me. - Yeah. - And that's like so beautiful. Okay, let's finish up with a couple questions. - Let's do that. - So we're gonna talk about your book in a second. But firstly, let's talk about some other things that you are beyond mental health. - Yeah. - So we'll have some rapid fire questions. - Okay, here we go. - Before we're gonna finish with two final questions, we'll let you have your water. We've been depriving you of that. - I feel like I need to prepare for these. - Well, you do, they're very important. Okay. Are you ready? Okay, favorite song at the moment. - Or anything by Noah Khan. What's the new album's absolute fantastic? A few between villages, that was the old album, wasn't it? But that is probably my favorite. And it's also the tune I put over my huge viral reel. So it almost feels like a very fitting song for that. - Did you see the reel? - I know, I don't think so. Maybe secret. - I feel like he secretly did. - Please, Noah. - And also he does amazing work for mental health. - He does. - I'd love to find a way of collabbing him. - Yeah. - Yeah, he's awesome. - If I get his number, I'll send it to you. - Oh, do. - Maybe he's the 10 million celebration. - Noah Khan. - I love how we're putting it out there. - Yeah, a few between villages, great. - Okay, subway order. - subway order, nibble marina cheese and toasted. - Cheese and toasted, what kind of bread? - Heart Italian. - Oh, classic. - The best veggie. - So you let us pickles, jalapenos, and then weirdly not ranch. Why does it laugh me? It's the sort of spicy mayo thing. - Chipotle mayo. - Chipotle mayo. Weird, but- - I knew it. - Once you're in with your selection, you can't really change, can you? - No, I was a little bit of my brain. - It's very saucy sandwich. - Yeah, I was thinking I was like, it's kind of spicy sandwich as well. - Spicy and saucy, yeah. It's quite difficult to eat of your or not. - Yeah, no, all of a sudden. - I'm not playing. - No, no, no. - Interesting. Okay, who's your favorite? This is real hard-eating question. - Yeah, I know, let this be. - Who's your favorite NEPO baby? - Wow, NEPO baby. Roman camp, he's a, he could be big up the mental health topic. I know we're trying to get away from mental health, but he does do amazing work. - I don't know who that is. - Roman camp in the UK, capital breakfast, you speak capital breakfast. He does vote for an advert. - Oh my, okay, well, I'm not from the UK, so I need to do my research. - Roman camp in the UK. - And who was nationally? - His dad was Martin Camp, who's in a band. - Well, of course I know who that is, yeah. - No, what's the band? - The band, or an I equipment, I have no idea, is what. - Okay. - No offense to Martin Camp. - I'm gonna go to, it's okay. I'll Wikipedia it. Favorite royal family member. - Ooh, Prince William. - Yeah. - Yeah, strong. - Okay. - Okay. - Like, come on. - Big up the mental health. - My friend met him. - Yeah. - And he was, and him and Princess Kate. Princess Kate, is that her name? - Yeah. - Yeah, she's Princess. And she was like, that's like every, I feel like Australians come to the UK and they're like, so I need to meet a royal. - Yeah, I love me. - Yeah. - They do some amazing work. And actually I work quite closely with the Kensington Palace team. And like, obviously he's very committed to mental health. - He really is. - Does a really good job. - Unlike a very serious level. - Yeah, and actually we, we went over and met him previously talking about some of the stuff that we're doing. He's always, he's always quite, in a good way, quite like he gives you challenge about stuff that you can do. So it's like he's not just briefed. To know a little bit enough to get for a conversation. He like really knows his stuff, which I've always thought was a good sign of someone actually cares, rather than just sort of repeating what he's told. - Yeah, I really like that. - He really knows his stuff when it comes to mental health. - And that's a good lesson for like people like us as well to be like, okay, when we like engage other people, like all the people that we work with higher up as well, like how do we engage them? Like it's actually good to push back a little bit. - Yeah, a bit of challenge is always a good thing. With the right tone, like we'll be coming alongside, helping try to understand what you could do more of. - Yeah. - But yeah, I think he's always been good for that. I love that you are perhaps close friend of Prince William. So now I can talk about my list. - No, no, no, no, no. - Prince William, no. - Yeah. - And Roman Kemp. - If they're free for the 10 million body. - Let's get them on a round table. Come on. - Yeah. - Okay. - First job. - First job, bar, and a bar. - And a pub? - Yeah, and a pub. - Ooh, what was the pub called? Oh, that's a root, the milk house. - The milk house. - Yep. So yeah, I thought it was gonna be like his lords head or something. We have some weird names around here. They do. We love a weird name. I know. And the amount of them that are called like the Queens something. Yeah. The Queens head. Yeah. What's the most popular one? White heart. Yeah. The Queens work. The Queens, I don't know. Well, I'm about to say where you lived. So I'm not gonna do that. Okay. But I always found that place funny. Yes. Yeah, I agree. What's your biggest bias? Ooh, slow walkers. You know, and which is ironic because I was really late to this. Okay, but I. But that's a pet peeve. What's a vice? Like what's something that you do that you're like, I should do that. Oh, from me personally, that's a really good question. Oh, I love Coke Zero. And you know, everyone tells you that it's Coke Zero worse than normal Coke. I have tons of Coke Zero. You know that, oh, you just get through it. How much do you know? - <i>Kinder Bueno is my Coke Zero. </i> - Well, my Coke Zero is also my Coke Zero. - <i>I'm not gonna lie. </i> - <i>My doctor was like, you got to stop.</i> - <i>She was like, it's bad for you.</i> <i>Really bad for you.</i> <i>I know that I found myself on forums.</i> <i>Not forums, Midnight Going is Coke Zero better than normal Coke.</i> <i>Or is it the sugar that's bad?</i> <i>Or is it aspartame or something?</i> <i>Yeah, fendoline and lean.</i> <i>Fendoline, fendoline.</i> <i>All these artificial sweetness.</i> <i>Look away, you could be. </i> - <i>And coffee to be fair, I have a lot of coffee.</i> <i>Which I know is not very good for you.</i> - <i>I think coffee is not the worst virus.</i> - <i>No, a nice little, nice bit.</i> <i>I think sometimes I go a little bit over to talk.</i> <i>Because I do a lot of coffee meetings.</i> <i>Do you know when people like, "Oh, I don't have coffee, I stack my coffees.</i> - <i>So what happens is then you've got like five people you meet in the morning.</i> <i>And you have a coffee.</i> <i>And I need to be better at going, I'm just gonna have. </i> - <i>Hot chocolate?</i> - <i>I'm actually gonna have a coffee at 0 and it's 9 a.m.</i> - <i>Porting up on the rocks please.</i> - <i>Or hot chocolate, that's a great idea.</i> <i>But sometimes you feel like this shouldn't be the case.</i> <i>But sometimes you feel that you can't order a hot chocolate because it's childish.</i> <i>If I'm meeting like a really, look at me, I'm dressed like this.</i> <i>I'm just measuring my walk to up and then I say, "Will I have a hot chocolate with marshmallow please?"</i> - <i>Double marshmallow please.</i> - <i>Yeah, I'm not sure that's great for my credibility.</i> <i>I think it's honestly better because you're like, I'm confident enough that I'm gonna, like, look how I represent my ideals right now.</i> <i>True, because I'm a black Americano guy as well.</i> - <i>So that's a big shift.</i> - <i>So you couldn't get further from a black Americano.</i> - <i>Maybe a moco.</i> - <i>Okay, you're somewhere in the middle.</i> <i>Give it a go, give it a go, Ben.</i> <i>Okay, two more questions.</i> <i>You already said, because pet people is the next question.</i> - <i>Oh, pet people slow walkers.</i> - <i>Yeah, I'm the same.</i> <i>And people that walk in groups on small pay and a week.</i> <i>We've got very small pavements in some of these places.</i> <i>And it is people who walk very slowly in lines.</i> <i>I don't know why they do that.</i> <i>I have to really hold it in.</i> <i>I do.</i> <i>I can get tranquilly.</i> <i>I can go if I'm the same.</i> <i>Yeah, when we're together walking and that happens, it's.</i> <i>Have you gone by down regions canal recently?</i> <i>Yeah, yeah.</i> <i>Woofle.</i> <i>I know, I know.</i> <i>So her pavements are only one person wide and you've got three people walking.</i> <i>Yeah.</i> <i>I don't have a piece, I know, and I've got to someone to go.</i> <i>Yeah, and they don't.</i> <i>They're just tourists.</i> <i>Yeah, they're not willing.</i> <i>Yeah, it's great.</i> <i>Favorite TV show.</i> <i>Favorite TV show.</i> <i>Oh, you know what, I loved Mythbusters, random one.</i> <i>But that was so good.</i> <i>It was so good.</i> <i>That is my childhood, Adam Savage and the other one.</i> <i>Oh, I know.</i> <i>Is he still alive?</i> <i>No, you know, it was.</i> <i>He died?</i> <i>They're both still alive.</i> <i>It was Grant who died.</i> <i>Oh, God.</i> <i>From the,</i> <i>You know, there was the two.</i> <i>And then there was the three.</i> <i>No, I was very sad.</i> <i>He was quite young, actually, I think.</i> <i>It was maybe last year.</i> <i>Do you know they weren't friends?</i> <i>I know, they didn't get on.</i> <i>They didn't get on.</i> <i>You would never know.</i> <i>No, they were so good.</i> <i>What was your favourite myth?</i> <i>Favorite Myth.</i> <i>There was one about bullet curving.</i> <i>That was quite good.</i> <i>When you troll it like that.</i> <i>That was quite good.</i> <i>I mean, really, the explosion is great.</i> <i>God, it's a really good question.</i> <i>It's been a long time since I've watched any of them.</i> <i>My mind was that another bullet one was getting shot underwater.</i> <i>Oh, that was a good one.</i> <i>You have maybe like a Pox and Rec Brooklyn nine-nine guy.</i> <i>No, I've not watched either of those shows.</i> <i>I'm not sure.</i> <i>I'm not sure.</i> <i>It's really good for TV.</i> <i>My girlfriend's big, her family's very big on films and TV shows.</i> <i>And I'm sort of like, I get outed every time.</i> <i>They're like, oh, have you not seen that?</i> <i>No, no.</i> <i>You should definitely have seen that.</i> <i>When somebody's like, you haven't seen Pox and Recreation.</i> <i>No.</i> <i>You're like, no.</i> <i>That was about to be me, sir.</i> <i>I can keep track of everybody in second.</i> <i>Do you have favorites?</i> <i>Who are they and why?</i> <i>Yeah, I need to know about this.</i> <i>Okay, I don't know where the number's 60.</i> <i>I really got to figure that out.</i> <i>And I could actually have over 60.</i> <i>I just need to really know that number.</i> <i>There have been plenty of sheep in my bed.</i> <i>It's a big bed.</i> <i>In the bed, literally sleeping in the bed.</i> <i>Yeah.</i> <i>Plus we find out what she really feels about stranger things in.</i> <i>Five seasons, almost 10 years of your life.</i> <i>I could have never have guessed it.</i> <i>I started when I was 10 years old.</i> <i>Our conversation with Millie Bobby Brown is out now.</i> <i>Go check it out.</i> <i>Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeart Radio app,</i> <i>Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.</i> Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So, this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're gonna have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer and that was more difficult. Olympic champ, Sean Johnson, revealed why she had no choice, but to be a gymnast. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Discretsland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars in unbelievable true crime stories for music history. Imagine that. Your Paul McCartney. It's 1980. You're an ex-beetle. And you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons right there alongside Yakuza Gangsters and for a ridiculous charge. Listen to Discretsland on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Samira and Gracie! I'm so excited! On the bouncy bed. You have surprises. Many surprises. Welcome to Sweet 305, where the good chat comes to life. What up? What up? It's like a form of a saying like, "Hola amiga, hola amiga, hola hermana, hola!" What up? Look, I've never seen anyone talk to you. Except with my children, my children know. She's my lover. Oh, she's incredible! It's lemonade! I don't know if anyone who needs you, as they say, would like to work with this person. This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Ponds as part of my Tultura Podcasts Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My husband is currently on a vacation with his mistress and I'm confronting them. He exposed himself? So she spent four weeks gathering evidence and taped a 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. That is a bold move. That it gets worse. And spoiler two years later, karma hit some solo hardies calling his "A" ex-wife, interiors, saying about the mistress, what a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHR radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's talk about your book. Manly book. Look what he has right here. Oh, wow. So awesome to see in real life. What's it called for the people who aren't watching? This is called "Reasons 2". It's based on reasons to stay, but this is going to be filled with letters from real people for not just moments where you might need a reason to stay, but I'd just love the idea of people writing about grief and anxiety and overthinking and depression. Like I really want this book to be there for any moment. Whatever you're going to do, you can open it and there'll be a letter from a real person, just like with "Reasons to stay", but about a moment in your life. Wow. And this one is currently. I was going to say, can you read this one in the name? This is my inspiration to actually get the work done and fill it. But yeah, no, this is sort of. It's lovely to be able to actually see this, but these pages are eventually going to be filled with real people's letters. I just think that's going to be so beautiful. Like, just whatever you're going through, open it to a page and someone's written you a letter about the thing that you're going through. How beautiful. And it just gets to the heart of what reasons to stay is about. Yeah. Are you going to write them all? No, these will be other people. Okay. People that have submitted two reasons to stay. So we're taking basically the best letters from all these different topics and putting them in here. So no, I'm not writing. I think I'm the less I write in this, I think the better. I really want this to be exactly with like, with "Reasons to stay" where it's strangers, supporting strangers. And all of them will be real people. Oh, my goodness. And so there will be a situation where, you know, I'll have. I don't know how many letters we're choosing yet. 150 real people that have really spent time writing. Oh, how special. The less I write in here, the better. Because I just want to sort of create this with people's words. Yeah. And it's going to be anonymous as well. So, you know, you've got, again, like, reasons to stay. You've got these people out there in the world that have sat there and written this because they care. Also in the age of AI. God. A physical book with advice from real people. And we're, you know, very. It's very difficult because, you know, and this is a really good point actually because a lot of people that have written letters on "Reasons to stay" have been AI. I may don't know, maybe I shouldn't mention this because it's been a good thing. But it's funny because AI has learned now what the perfect letter is for "Reasons to stay". So what's really interesting is you can tell it's from AI because it's all the same. So that "Chaggity" has learned through lots and lots of thousands of people asking it this. It gives you the same letter. So although it sounds good, I know that that line is the same in about 5,000 of. Like, there's a lot. So it's. And one thing, you know, the reason people turn to AI is because it's a difficult task. It's really, really hard to know what to say to someone. And that is the point. Like, it should feel hard. It should feel really difficult because in order to write a good letter to someone, you have to connect with something in you that feels that. The only way you can answer the question of why should you not die is understanding what you like about life. And there's something really difficult and special in that question. So yeah, it's actually a really good point of like. If you're using AI that defeats the point for you and for them because it's not about, you know, reason to stay is not about the words that are written. It's about the person that's written them and why. And if, you know, with AI, it's just words, but with a letter that's written by real human being. Actually, the words matter less than the fact that you've spent the time doing it. So yeah, no AI. No AI. No AI only is it? No AI. No AI in the book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are places in the word for AI that is to people in this space. It's just not that. It's not it. And so yeah, we're getting very good at working out which ones AI was not there. I know the feeling. I get people, yeah, I won't go into it. But I can always tell when like you are like. You can. That's not a real person. So this will be real people. Yeah. And the reasons say will always be real people. Well, we'll leave a link in the description to pre-order. It'll be amazing. Something that people should know. Pre-orders of books are the most important part of it. Oh, that's so important. It's so important. Because they basically drive who stalks you. Exactly. Yeah. So actually it's really important. So pre-order, don't wait for it to come out, although you can if you would like, but you probably should pre-order it. You can. It's a bit of a wake because we've got to compile the book. Oh, it's all right. That would be a nice surprise. It's a weird reason to stay. Yeah. Because your book will arrive in a little. Yeah, so let's see. There we go. Okay. Final question. We ask this of every single guest, what is one piece of advice you have for people in their 20s that has nothing to do with what we spoke about today? Wow. Oh, that's such a good point. I think we have spoken about it, but I just, I'm such an advocate for running. For running? That sounds so lame. No, because I would be listening to this like three years ago and I'd be like, that is just terrible advice. I read a book, an amazing book called Born to Run. If you are, if you wanted to get into running but haven't quite or you'd never really enjoyed running, read that book. I don't know anything from saying that. Who wrote it? Christopher McDougal. He's a running journalist in America and he basically, he's obsessed with the idea that there's lots of tribes around the world that can run ultra-marathons. And there's one called the, I'm going to mispronounce this, the tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, in a Mexico. They basically, they run 100 miles for fun, right? And he basically goes there and they wear, they do these races in disused car tires. Sandals made from old car tires, right? So it's basically like, we've got these like 200-pound foam shoes here. And we struggled like 5K and they're literally doing it in tires. And the whole book, it's not all about them, it's basically about how the human being evolved and our evolution and how we used to, we are built the way we are. Our Achilles is the size it is because we are designed to run and be able to recover aerobically on the run. And it's an amazing book because basically, and this sounds a bit like I'm some weird run or no. No, it's not. It's basically, makes you realise actually running to us is a little bit like flying to a bird. And it's like, we're so, it's so genetically wide into us to be able to do it. So I loved it. I read that book and then I decided to sign up for an ultramarathon and I literally running for me now is everything. And what's amazing as well is that you will improve, if you do it and you've just show up and put your trains on and get out of the door, you will see yourself in proof, which I think is fantastic itself. But you will also, it's an amazing thing, which is that it's always just as hard for everyone. Like whether you've never run before, if you run as hard as you can, that's always as hard. You might run faster, but it's always feels as hard. And I don't think there's anything really in life where everyone has the universe to experience of how hard it is. You might do different things, but everyone feels the same. I think that's, that's quite special. So you're not racing anyone, you're only ever improving yourself. It's one of the best things I ever started doing. I loved that book, run. Are you hurt yourself? Yeah. Just get out of the door. And even if you have to walk and run and walk and run, then you just think it's a fantastic sport. Yeah. Such great advice. I know we're never imagined. I say that and to someone. This is the thing I think when people get into running, they're like, oh my god, I'm so boring and then you start doing it and you're like, oh. Yeah, but yeah, I get it. And I think it's because not to go on if we're wrapping up, but I think it's because at school running was always a punishment. Like if you talk, if you were talking, you just, that's the classical conditioning. If you were talking like you'd be told to run around the field or like there was always a bad thing. And then there was an amazing moment where losing Sam, I just went, I'm going to just go for a run to get out of the house. And then I just never stopped doing it. I just love it. It's the only time my, that in public transport weirdly, it's the only time my brain's ever quiet. My brain's really quiet on the bus. Just love it. Never thought about that. Yeah. So where I do my best like thinking on the bus. Yeah. On the 5.09. I've had reasons to stay. Came on a bus. Wow. Yeah. That was a bus journey. I feel like that we used to be the shower, but now we listen to music in the shower. Yeah, because the shower is just music now. Yeah. And getting ready. Very hard. And getting ready. Yeah. Very like stressful. Bus. There we go. Superlube. I'm not going to do that. So I don't want to be on any more public transport in the city every day. I might have to. I think all the tubes are broken. I think I'm going to be on the bus bags. Oh, dang. Well, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. Thanks for sharing. We're going to leave links in the description to everything. Reason to stay. The book. You can see what Ben's up to. He's doing some really cool stuff. Always, which is so cool. best buddies with Prince. William. So I expect a selfie on there from him soon. But yeah, thank you again. If you have made it this far, leave a little white heart emoji down below just so that we know that you've listened all the way to the end and that you enjoyed this episode. As always, we also have full episodes on Netflix if you want to go and watch this talk or future conversations that we have. I'll also leave links in the description down below. There's always a bunch of stuff to your and explore and go into further down there. So until next time be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon. If you haven't heard, Arnie podcast is called, "Hey, Jonas." And this week we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of. Millie, Bobby Brown. Plus, we find out what she really feels about the stranger things ending. I don't know where the number 60 I've really got to figure that out. Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Brenn and on the Discretsland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars in unbelievable true crime stories from music history. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga's Accused Up, where that time blondies Debbie Harry escaped Ted Bunny. Listen to Discretsland on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive but now. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, HotaCotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting and moving on air chats. Open your free iHeartRadio app search, Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with HotaCotby is presented by CVS. My first guest is Paris Totten, Shakira, Luke and Yerin. I have surprises. Many surprises. Lemonade. This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lela Ponds on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. My husband is a despot with his mistress right now and I'm calling the hotel to confront them both. Wait a minute Dakota, she's calling the hotel while they're checked in together. And it gets worse. It's vacate the vacation week on the Oka Storytime podcast where she caught him buying gifts on Amazon and then taped the 10 page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. And spoiler, Sophia, two years later, karma hits so hard he's calling his ex-wife in tears saying about his mistress. To find out what happened, listen to the Oka Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.