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Speaker 4O-L-L-I dot com. O-L-L-Y dot com. Thank you. I don't know how spiritual you are or if you dive into that realm with recovery, but I would say, you know, I've stayed sober since I last saw you and even before that. So I just recently celebrated a year, which is amazing because that's my second time now doing that. Congratulations. And it was hard. It was hard to get back there. I found it harder to come back into recovery this time than it was to originally come to when I first came in at 23. And I was forced to go to rehab back then. Right. I was introduced to recovery at the treatment center that I was at. I was introduced to spirituality a little bit later. But my point with all that is I have like a different connection, I would say, with a power greater than myself that I choose to call God. And on the days, on the days when I'm not doing recovery stuff, you know, recovery is hard, right? And it's especially hard when you're not doing recovery things with other people, such as this, such as recovery meetings or whatever your thing is, your therapy. And it's especially hard when you're not doing recovery things with other people, such as this, such as recovery meetings or whatever your thing is, your therapy. And it's especially hard when you're not doing recovery things with other people, such as this, such as recovery meetings or whatever your thing is, your therapy. And it's especially hard when you're not doing recovery things with other people, such as this, such as recovery meetings or whatever your thing is, your therapy. What do I do the 96% of my life outside of that, right? And so I was taught to connect with a power greater than myself because my will got me here. And when I live on self, bad things happen, you know? So to answer your question, I've been good. I've been diving into the spirituality a lot more, listening to more spiritual recovery tapes of people framing it. And that's what I love that about recovery is that you come in here and nobody's... And nothing wrong with Christianity or Catholicism, like that's all good stuff. It works for a lot of people. But everything is suggestions in recovery, right? You come in and people are like, hey man, you can do this stuff or you can go and drink. Or you can half-ass it. I recommend that you don't do that. And I don't know about you, but I've done that. I've done the half-assing thing, the kind of middle of the road solution. But no one's going to force you to do anything here. No one's going to tell you to believe in God. No one's going to, you know, these are all suggestions and recommendations. So it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 5I really appreciate hearing that you've been doing well, first of all. It's been a while since I last spoke with you. And hearing about spirituality, like that's... I recently just had one year of sobriety myself. And that's like the first time ever that I've been able to do that, you know, in my adult life. And so the way I was able to have some consistency was by taking a lot of suggestions from other people. You know, having humility. Because like I, everything that I had tried to, in order to like stop, didn't work. It was ineffective. Like, and that failure of like, that the shame and the guilt about, you know, the promises of, that you make, that you're going to stop. And like, the impacts that it has on your family. And it just, it feeds into itself in a negative way. And it just sort of keeps... It makes it difficult to come back from when you aren't successful. So I also, I get that as well. I can't imagine after one year how difficult that must have been. But like, that's a testament to your strength, I think. And good for you that you're able to do that. Like, that's not something that many people, from my experience... You've been coming back? Yeah, yeah. So that's beautiful. Thanks, man. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4Yeah, you know, shame. You mentioned shame there. And it's true. There's levels to shame, I think, for me at least, right? Where it's like, I've built up all this recovery. And so I had another... And it's not harder or easier for any... It's all subjective, right? Like, coming back. Anyone's experience in recovery is, it's all perception. It's all, you know, you can't say that guy had it harder than that guy or, you know, vice versa.
Speaker 6Right.
Speaker 4On paper, it might look like that. And don't get me wrong. Some people do have very difficult situations. But at the end of the day, it's like, it's how you... How do you perceive it? I know a lot of people that went through homelessness and, like, were doing okay for a while. And, you know, it's just like... And then some people, homelessness brought them to their knees and they took their life or whatever. Whatever outcome they ended up doing. So it added another level of shame of all these people knew that I had, you know, seven years of sobriety. And I had to admit to them that I had relapsed. And, yeah, to your point, it's like, as soon as I go out in the world with me and my brain, it's like, you piece of shit. You fucked up. Like... Those were the thoughts in the beginning. Yeah. And it gets better. You know, it gets better with time. And I love what you said. It's like, I had to turn my brain off some in the beginning, at least. Even today, where it's like, yeah, I want to go this way. But that guy said he went that way and it worked for him.
Speaker 5Right.
Speaker 4What do I have to lose?
Speaker 5Yeah. Towards the end, the beginning, rather, of 2025, I started my recovery journey of, you know, going to recovery spaces. And then meeting people that had achieved that long-term sobriety, which was a goal of mine. So I really tried to connect with as many of those people in recovery.
Speaker 4Yeah, you were texting every single day. I think you still do it. That's the one thing I love, you know, I love that about you, right? Is when we first met, you said to me, too, you're like, hey, I'm going to text you every single day. And I didn't believe you at first. I was like, yeah, yeah, whatever, man. Like, dude, every single day you would text me and just check in. Yeah. And you, to my knowledge, you were doing that with other people. Oh, yeah. Connection. Yeah. The opposite of addiction. Connection. Yeah. Making new friends, asking for phone numbers. It's so hard to do sometimes, right? Yeah. So how did you do that? How did you get through that?
Speaker 5I got comfortable being uncomfortable, you know? Like, I got goosebumps right now just thinking about that. But I would make, I was, it was vulnerable to do, to just open myself up to asking people who were complete strangers for their number, contact information. And then, you know, having that commitment to contact them, follow up with them. And be consistent in that. But I needed a new plan, a new path, right? Like, I would wake up with an obsession of, like, what I was, you know, going to do to take my, like, what poor coping method I was going to choose. And I would be successful in that endeavor, in that pursuit. And so in order to, you know, create a new map in my brain, I needed a new plan and a new path and new habits and new rituals and routines. And part of that was, like, from the start of the day, you know, doing something different. And so I would text people. My list started off small because it was, you know, maybe 10, 15 people. But it grew over time. I think at one point it was up to around 200. Wow.
Speaker 4Connection. Yeah. I needed to connect first thing in the day. That's it. Power greater than myself. Group of people. That's it. Right? Simple, you know? You're not necessarily getting on your knees. Every day I'm praying, not saying that you do, don't do that. But that's the thing I tried to drive home with so many people is like that in of itself is a power greater than me. Yes. A group, a collective of people that I can just tap into whenever I want. Right. And I'm sure some of those text messages turned into coffees and conversations and phone calls. And so it's a beautiful thing. The thing too is it's like old pattern. When you say that to me, it's like old pattern, uncomfortability, unmanageability, fear, discomfort comes up in your mind. In whatever circumstance you're in, what's your first reaction, right? For me, it was, I'm going to go grab, I'm going to get some Coke, I'm going to get some meth, I'm going to, I'm going to take a pill, I'm going to take a drink, whatever, gone, at least for the short term. Right? Yeah. Um, and now it's coming into recovery and rewiring that pathway. Hey, I'm going to, instead, I'm going to choose healthy behavior, such as texting someone, calling someone, going for a walk, being comfortable in the uncomfortable. Yeah.
Speaker 5And at first. You know, it was just seeds, you're planting seeds because I, I didn't really see any sort of, um, the, the, like the rewards. Gratification. Yeah. Yeah. There wasn't instant gratification. Right. Like, and, and that was something that my brain had been sort of addicted to in itself. Like was not waiting, not patient, like immediate answer, immediate response, immediate connection, immediate soothing. Right. And so. to start to have patience. you know, and to trust in a process, um, and making incremental change like, you know, 0.001% better today than I was yesterday. And seeing that by putting positive, you know, energy into my interactions, into my intent, um, that that reflected back to me in other people as well. And in, and in circumstance, in my mind started to become more positive seeking and, and seek out positive exchanges, um, and, um, detach from, um, negative interactions or behaviors, you know, and whether that be personally or socially, like, like avoiding sort of like gossip type energy or anything that, you know, was outside of myself and not focused on my own personal, recovery. Um, it really, I went from not being comfortable alone and not, and having to, you know, disconnect from that feeling of, of loneliness to seeking sometimes solitude as a way of recharging and, and growing in my spiritual path. I found that as time went on, in my recovery, that my spirituality and, and that part of it was really instrumental in terms of like regulating my nervous system, finding stillness and, and, and connecting with my higher power, which I choose to call God as well.
Speaker 4Amazing. So let's get into, um, a little bit. Why don't you, uh, first tell me what, like, what do you hope people, whenever you share your story or your experience, what do you hope one person or people get out of it?
Speaker 5Um, a, a feeling that they're seen, heard, not alone, that, um, perhaps hope, like just that I'm able to have some positive, um, interaction and exchange and, and help them in some way to heal. Um, I don't know what that means in what will be significant. I don't know what that means to which person, like I've in talking to some people that, you know, in recovery that have had a positive outcome in their life after talking with me, it was something that I didn't consider to be significant, but for them it was huge. And so I can't have, um, this idea that this is what will be the way. of changing someone's life it's just living my life authentically um and being honest in my connection because that itself allows people to feel um heard and and to hold space for them so that they can extract from life what life is there to give them yeah i love that it was well said man
Speaker 4it's um i don't know what's going to flick the light on in somebody's brain right and to your point yeah it's like every time i've ever shared people have come to me man you said that one thing about this and i was like i i kind of just like said that in passing i didn't even think that that was a big part of my story or my journey but good you know and yeah it's when i share honestly yeah i was told early in recovery that the best share is an honest share right not i need to wow these people with these crazy stories and you know sure that's entertaining and shock value and but if i'm going to share something of depth and weight or receive a message of depth and weight it's honesty it's authenticity like you said where it's like holy fuck i used to feel like that too yeah wow i didn't know anyone else did that or felt like that so uh well said man beautiful why don't you tell us um tell us a little bit about what your last 30 days of drinking and drugging looked like
Speaker 5oh pain isolation um anxiety hopelessness uh there was i didn't trust myself with my own personal safety at a point um my last 30 days i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die was a lot of escaping from social settings and just my biggest, like drugs and alcohol would be my higher power, would be my God. Like that was what would take me away from the shame or the pain that I felt of past traumas or emotional pains, you know, even sometimes physical pains, like, because I found that my body was, my immune system wasn't responding very well because I was really low energy a lot of times. And when I would be binge drinking, that I found weakened me as well. Um, so the past 30 days was like a lot of, um, poor coping really. Um, trying to escape feelings of, of emotional wounds and, um, feeling hopeless about that. Like, uh, it was when I went to, um, uh, a place for psychiatric healing. Um, that's when I started to have a calmness, um, coming over me. I had retreated. Retreated from everything that was really, um, a part of my life and of importance, like my family, my work, my education, all of these things I just sort of withdrew from and, and went into sort of this hermit mode. Um, I didn't have a large group of people that I would even use with. I usually would do that in isolation. I wasn't one for gatherings and, uh, would try to keep that pretty private. hidden in my life um but i don't think i it was hidden that well to be quite honest with you um it from my perspective i i was thinking that that withdrawal was preserving people from like the worst of me but it was actually harming those closest to me because i was withdrawing from them and not being able to be present for them and i didn't see that at the time so the the last 30 days was um probably some of the most desperate days of my life
Speaker 4of fear and shame and loneliness yeah yeah yeah i can relate to a lot of that um you mentioned you were you know you're a father too right so that that adds another layer again of shame and guilt and remorse um you what was sort of the moment that brought you to your knees where you waved the white flag what was that moment like and you sought help
Speaker 5um that moment was um i was using in a place where i felt unsafe and i was just really distrustful of the environment um and i feared for my life and was in having a lot of anxious moments um my my body wasn't reacting in a like i i kept losing control of my body to be quite honest with you like spasming like my my arm was stiffening up and i thought maybe i was going to have cardiac arrest um and so i i ended up getting into an uber and getting myself into an environment where i could be medically supervised through withdrawal and um at that point um i was kept under observation for a while and i was like i'm gonna have to do this again and i'm gonna have to do this again and for a couple of days and then i was um transported um to a detox facility where i was um where i stayed for 20 days and and then it was that place there and that detox that changed my life in a really profound way what were the sort of things that started happening like what did you
Speaker 4start noticing because for me when i think of that too is like i think a lot of recovery is timing right and a lot of people don't like to hear that because i want my son to get sober now or my loved one my husband he's at rock bottom why can't he stop or i you know i was with a new guy the other day right and um sorry it's just it's such a beautiful thing man like i haven't hey i had a moment it's just a sidetrack here for a bit because i hadn't really reflected on this with anybody yet yeah um i was having one of those days where i was like in my head a couple days ago and uh you know god works for me does things that i can't do for myself this guy popped into my head and i i had been talking to him before but i thought of him and i i sent him a message and he responded and he's not doing well right okay and i offered like this isn't me right these things that these ideas that come up in my head these service-based ideas it's such a beautiful beautiful thing of recovery i'm in my head all day poor me my life's not good going the way i want it to i'm not making enough money right these things are ruminating i'm not making enough money i'm not making enough money i'm not making in my mind what does you know recovery tell me to do what was i taught to do reach out and help the next person help the new guy so this idea pops my head i call this guy and uh we go to a recovery event space and i just remember like having this moment of everything he's saying to me about how his life is spinning out right now is exactly the way that my life was right and i can't i don't have the power to get anyone sober all i can do to your point earlier is share my story right and so i share my story and he's like man i did that too i did that too like how did you get out of it how did you do this and i tell him what i did and then i go home at the end of the night and suddenly i hadn't thought about myself for the last three hours right but it's i i was overwhelmed with emotion when it happened and what i do now is i just kind of like when that happens i get gratitude cries and sort of what i just did now a little bit i just kind of look up and i'm like thank you right yeah this is this is the answer it is you know service being of service because when i came in somebody else so when you say that you know something clicked for you um i'm reminded of my early days and in my i've been to a few rehabs but every rehab there's a different point where it's like something hope was just that's what i call it really he's like hope you know i'm reminded of my early days and in my i've been to a few rehabs but every rehab there's a was popping up in the form of people in the form of counselors in the form of me feeling hopeful whatever and so what was that moment like where uh for me it was like just seeing people that had been happy and sober in a rehab right it's like those things were just blew my mind it's like this this young guy here when i was 23 especially here's all these young people here that aren't using and drinking they're pretty cool they're cool like i would hang out with them outside of here right and they're not using drugs and alcohol there's got to be something here what do they i want that thing right what are they doing you know what was that moment like for you where it was like it just started to click would you say um well first i was
Speaker 5challenged at um the detox in a way that i hadn't been challenged before like i had had a few um brief periods of staying in in treatment places um i'd been to three previously and um one of the intake workers there challenged me in a way that i hadn't been challenged and said you know you're pretty smart guy you know you're pretty educated and well-spoken and you've stopped before so you know like you've been you've done it three times before so you know like how are you going to stay stopped and um that you know really gave me an opportunity to start critically looking at my life and thinking about that and i said i don't know i don't fucking know if i knew that i wouldn't be here right now you know and um and so that's when you know he's he slid a piece of paper across the table towards me and um on the piece of paper it said uh honesty and uh open-mindedness uh truth um brotherhood restitution um um yeah and there was a few other words i can't recall at this time but and behind each one of those words um was a blank space on the like a blank line and uh he instructed me to write in that empty space trust the process and then to put it in a blank space and then to put it in a blank space and then to put it in a blank space put like a little arrow to the next line at the end trust the process so behind each word like honesty brotherhood open-mindedness was trust the process and um he said this is a this is a pathway and a plan for you if you don't know that has worked for a lot of people if you're willing to you know give it a chance um and so that's how i was introduced to a program of recovery that had worked for a lot of other people and and i had been introduced to before but i hadn't given it an honest sort of evaluation and and applied it in in a authentic way um but i i'd reached that desperate point in my life where i was willing to try literally anything if he had said you know eat 600 pizzas a day in order to maintain sobriety i would have given that a chance right so i was i was at that desperate point so i started attending some of these spaces where um recovery uh was spoken about and by having an open mind i started to hear my story in other people and um someone had come from columbia to share their story and um had never shared that in a in a public setting before but said my story they were speaking my life like a lot of the experiences that i was going through and in a way that was so unique that there wasn't anybody else that that applied to and um it was like sort of like a god shot like aha okay there's something going on here that i need to this isn't a coincidence and that by having that open-minded i started to see things that perhaps had been present that i'd missed before because i wasn't really present but there was an incredible thing happening and the change was occurring and it was by having an open mind and going into this space of recovery and connecting with people who reached their hand out in service to me um and uh in sponsorship brought me into meeting other people that had even more um length of sobriety and um it was in that um space that i started to feel a connectedness and and to something greater than myself and i started to open my mind up to a higher power which i was very disconnected from that as a even really an option of of healing um but by having that open-mindedness i was able to connect to um my higher power who i choose to call god and i asked to be um absolved and of this obsession and and in that detox that happened for me and i felt light as a feather when i when i did that when i took that moment of vulnerability and and opened myself up to god to take power in my life and it's something that i now have a consistent practice of doing a daily practice of of relinquishing that burden from myself but in order to maintain that i have to continue being of service to others and reaching that hand out that was reached reached out to me um and it's that way i'm able to maintain myself so when you when you're saying um some of these things as well about how service has affected you um it's okay yeah i i can identify that and i appreciate that it's so beautiful right like that's how this thing works
Speaker 4you know i always uh i always tell people that recovery is like a pyramid scheme without the scheme you know if practiced properly like we're just helping all these people right and there's no scheme there's no access to grind there's no dues to be paid if you want to go and drink and you don't want to follow the suggestions that were given to me i didn't make these up right that i'm suggesting to you friend who's trying to get sober you can go and do some more controlled drinking like that's it said right i love that man it's you know the spiritual life is not a theory no no yeah i love that you said practice because it's so i have to be reminded of that too and i too that's why when i led this when i started the podcast today and started our conversation the reason my spirituality is kind of i am i do feel spiritually fit in this moment today is because i've been consistent with that morning practice and that night practice right and it's not you know sitting in a yoga studio monk mode right for two hours it can be certainly sure but i i added meditation recently to my protocol and it's 10 minutes i follow an app that i paid for i love it dude like i absolutely love it it's it's added a new again i'm going to say the word layer a new layer to my spirituality where it's like 10 minutes out of my day i listen to some guy tell me how to notice the fucking world and my thoughts in it and my consciousness right beautiful yeah when i i don't i didn't even know i didn't if you started talking about this when i was in addiction i would have punched you out right like i don't want anything to do with that correct the now is the most uncomfortable thing i've ever done i've never done anything like that i've never done uncomfortable, annoying place to be when you're, when you're not tapped in and when you're in, it can be still too, you know, it's still, it's very hard sometimes to be in the now, but, um, you know, that's where, in my opinion, that's where spirituality is. It's the only place it is. That's where a power greater than myself. That's where God is, is now. He doesn't exist yesterday. He doesn't exist tomorrow because those don't exist, right? All we have is now. And so to, to be able to practice spirituality, service is a part of it, reaching out your hand, especially when it's inconvenient for you, because that's when I find, you know, that's when it pays off the most, right? And again, it's like, I'm, yes, I'm going to stay sober as a result of being of service, but I need to not do it for, for anything other than that, I would say, right? There needs to be no expected return, right? There's needs to be no, in my opinion, um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's a beautiful thing. It's a practice and it's, it's, it needs to be repeated in my opinion, daily too. So I'm happy you brought that up. Um, I want to talk about unmanageability a little bit because that's been coming up. That word has been coming up recently for me. Um, can you tell me what unmanageability looked like in your first maybe month or three months of sobriety of recovery? Like what, what sort of things were coming up as unmanageability? In the beginning and then today, what does unmanageability look like today and how do you
Speaker 5handle it? Sure. Yeah. I think unmanageability initially for me was trying to, you know, balance all of these different things in my life, like work and school and family, you know, because like I managed a household, I was primary caregiver often for my family. So that in itself was a lot of responsibility. And so my unmanageability was just feeling overwhelmed, trying to do all of these things and be all for everyone all the time and not prioritizing myself. I was a people pleaser. And so I actually, a friend recommended a book for me that I read and I listened to that on repeat. For the first 30 days. And it was really instrumental in providing some insight into myself and how I was perceived by others. And, and it helped me to start connecting to myself and learning what was mine to manage and what wasn't. So the first 30 days was just unmanageability. My life, just managing me was my unmanageability. Right. So the first 30 days was just connecting to myself, spending time away from any other type of distraction and making me my number one priority. And I had something that I hadn't done, I think maybe ever. Like I was the oldest sibling, so I had younger siblings and I was always sort of, I felt parentified in a way that I was, you know, received. Responsible for being an example. And so that, that, it felt selfish to prioritize myself. Yeah. And now look back at that and think that I could have maybe had some different experiences if I was selfish in a healthy way. I think there's a difference between, you know, the selfishness. I would experience as a form of resentment resentment because I didn't have um a connection to myself and I didn't have opportunities to to to grow in my healing and and yeah that
Speaker 4sort of lost my thought there at least for the beginning though right like a lot of people might hear that and be like well selfish you just talked about service and you have to do that in my experience too at least in the beginning right and to to to be honest there is still a degree of selfishness in in a recovery program where it's you're putting your recovery program first right not necessarily like I'm going to be first in every single you know what I mean it's kind of like I need to put my recovery first because it was taught to me anything that I put before my recovery I will lose that thing right and that goes for the next for my life you know and I know that because I when I was you know long-term sobriety I was practicing that I knew that put my wife before I'll lose it if I put my marriage before I'll lose it if I put my gym workouts or my fitness program before my recovery I'll lose it um and and it's it's kind of it sounds sort of messed up but without my recovery program I am not connected to myself like you said I'm not me and then I can't be me essentially I can't be a husband I can't be a father if I you know for in your case um I need to put that stuff first so I I think that that's the biggest thing that a lot of people uh or at least myself sort of struggled with is I got to find out who the fuck I am first of all and you said that solitude this like I need to spend time with me away from phone away from computer away from people right at least for because you're going to be it's you and you for the rest of your life right right at the end I always said this to people it's like sure I can go on that vacation and have a a couple of drinks and no one would know right because that's like the common thing that used to come up for for a lot of people and and I've I've struggled with that too I I know at the end of the day like I have to go to bed at the end of the night right and how am I gonna yeah so I mean coming clean with my relapse was the hardest thing I ever did it took me a long time um but it was essential like I had to do it because when I kept that secret the longer I kept that secret well what do you do with shame that builds up over time and resentment right yeah I'm in a crack house you know what I mean I'm I'm smoking meth like though that's where I end up right when I can't relieve myself of the shame and the resentment that that I have towards myself yeah uh and I I'm
Speaker 5similar in that way you know if I'm not able to you know be honest with myself about um what it is that I'm feeling and experiencing I will it'll lead me in a path right back to you know the the drugs the alcohol um and all other forms of poor coping um overeating smoking um however what I found um you mentioned something and it and it stood out to me um I I have um spirituality recovery and then family and in that order you know I find that that has to be the the script for my life in order for me to maintain my sobriety if I if I am out of order with those things I start to feel that and it happens fairly quickly where I'm you know I'm not able to detach emotionally from things that shouldn't really bother me but they do and it's like oh yeah you know I didn't pray this morning yeah I haven't done you know that that spiritual practice um and um morning meditations are really the way that I like to start my day before I even you know my feet touch the ground I like to just wake you know open my eyes and and start to get connected to myself in that way and and so yeah and I guess that leads into the next uh question too where
Speaker 4it's like what are those unmanageabilities today right for for me it's like um you meant I love that I need I I have a hard time that kind of covers it all you said it really well I have a hard time detaching emotionally from things that normally shouldn't or don't bother me shouldn't is a dangerous word but don't bother me uh IE financial insecurity right that's my thing is like how am I gonna pay my mortgage coming up uh that's been a thing that's coming up for me okay well today is the mortgage isn't due today okay so what can I do in this moment right now to solve that problem well nothing really like there's yeah there's nothing I can do right and that that's to be said with a lot of things right and it's like I go through the checklist and to your point if I'm not checking that with with the universe God whatever your higher power if I'm not checking that with with that it's rumination Central you know and then that's unmanageability for me it's like I've really I'm not gonna be able to pay and then it's a story I'm gonna lose my house you know and then it's like I'm gonna be homeless and I'm gonna you know so it just like
Speaker 5spins out what what does unmanageability look like to you um unmanageability is if those things that you mentioned are all important parts of life and living and money you know security and housing um food security like these are all things that are essential to you know the lived experience but a lot of the ways in which they come into my life are out of my control right so what I what I have control over is how I respond like to the outcomes and not how I influence the outcome so manageability unmanageability is if I'm trying to have you know my will inserted into something like and that's not like perhaps meant for me or um yeah I I found that I when I have just God in my life my spiritual fitness is intact that's it that's that's what I that's what I need and that will allow me to deal with anything else that comes up in life yeah and if I don't have that I don't have anything that's everything for me and so those other things are like how housing situation can change jobs can change like financial situations can change they can improve or they can get worse I stop thinking about good and bad and just lessons in life and detaching from the outcomes and just being present in the moment and managing moments is become my life I I really I'm hesitant around any type of long-term sort of planning yeah um because my life hasn't reflected that I've had you know things that I've wanted to do and I've had a direction in life that I wanted to go and I've been able to do that for most part in areas of my life um but when i like when whenever i start um getting fixated on where i will arrive at at some a certain point in my life and what that will look like i'm in trouble i'm in trouble like because that's not real you know and and and so someone said to me you know if you have one foot in the past and one foot in the future you're you're shitting on today you know i and so i i i keep that one some of these things that are said are really simple um little i guess um phrases metaphors idioms but they they do have um an ability to ground me you know and um and and i think being grounded and present is what is it's what i need in order to you know maintain the life that i'm currently living yeah and that connection right that's it um one of my favorite
Speaker 4you know recovery speakers that i listen to on podcasts says uh perception is everything everything is perception and you you just stated that so beautifully it's it's is the glass half-full half-full or half-empty it's really that simple in all situations you know is it am i am i looking at it from this angle and it's like people are there's other angles to sort of look at said thing with or am i no no like i'm gonna this is the angle right here this is the way it is my biggest problem today i always say this my biggest problem today is i'm right contempt prior to investigation like no no that's it's the way it is it's opposite of open-mindedness really is that's it that's that's the way it is i'm right we have to do it this way because i've done it once this way or whatever i've you know this is the way we've always done it you know yeah it's it's it's really you know i'm right yeah but and uh i know if i if i feel myself saying those things like yeah yeah yeah yeah but i know you know it's like i gotta i'm in a i'm headed down a dark path i gotta i gotta check that with with somebody right yes how do you know you're on the spiritual beam and how do you know you're off the spiritual beam what does that look like um
Speaker 5how do i that's a really good question so the how i know that i'm on the spiritual beam is um by consistent practice in connection um and and so what that looks like for me is to have a moment in the day and i actually will do this several times in the day where i'll i'll just no matter no matter where i'm at i could be like in transit um just if i have a time of stillness i just will sit close my eyes in complete silence and just connect to something greater than myself and i can feel my sort of nervous system regulating and a calmness coming over me and and it's in that now that i'm doing what i'm meant to do and i i don't know what i have coming up in my life but i know where i've come from and i know where i don't want to be and so like that's my guide is this is where you've come from i don't know what it looks like going forward but that's exciting like i know what my life has looked like for a very long period of time and so in sobriety i i just i love that just existing and in sobriety and and having these first-time experiences is that's my life that's life that's living life and when i if i'm not present that's when i to to your point i'm not
Speaker 4what was your sorry what was the question like when do you know you're off the beam that's it
Speaker 5yeah yeah so when i'm not present when i'm not when i'm sort of you know in my um if i'm disconnected you know from sort of like an autopilot that that's when i'm
Speaker 4yeah yeah the way i like to think about it and this is my meditation practice has made this clear um you know as of today if there's one you know prayer and meditation are both good but this meditation has added like a whole separate element to my life um i can either be a sort of lost in thought and i think this is where what you're getting at is for me it's like i'm i'm completely disconnected and off the beam when i'm one one error there's many ways for me to get off like that what it looks like many different things um but when i'm sort of an observer of my thoughts and i'm like huh i'm noticing well where's that like that's kind of interesting i'm doing that thing again you know uh in in early recovery it was and even still i mean i don't really have cravings aren't really a big part of my life today but uh it comes out in different ways it's for me it's like oh i that guy looks like he's having fun you know and he's could be drunk or high or whatever that was fun wasn't it you know that's kind of sometimes that'll pop up into my head and then it's like am i letting that thought just kind of run wild and i'm being prisoner to that thought and now it's the whole train and i'm lost in thought or am i sort of observing that and be like oh i'm doing that fucking thing again you know i'm fantasizing about or i'm lying to myself or i'm spinning a story or and then you just kind of laugh and it goes all these thoughts they just sort of drift away right so that's that's what meditation has added for me is like this whole other layer of being able to observe consciousness and reality and now and one of the coolest things about what you're talking about is this moment right now has never existed before yeah it's pretty cool to your point right and then now now this moment has never existed before right this is a new moment yeah and we don't know what's going to happen next you know it's cool when you think about it that way yeah um so um you mentioned like a little bit about your essentials in recovery has it changed since since you came in in terms of daily practices and and what you do now um so like has
Speaker 5yeah absolutely routine yeah yeah definitely it's changed like like for the first say six months of my recovery i like that just just recovery alone was my job like that was full-time full-time job yeah you know um i stepped away from work and um even from you know family and that was scary because like i you know to just sort of leave this privilege in your life of security you know i didn't have um a lot over me in terms of that responsibility financially um but it was um it was it was a tough decision it was scary to do it took time to work up to that place of courage where i could step out into the unknown and when i did things started working that i couldn't explain like the doors would open that were closed you know um and things happened at such a rapid pace in my life that i thought would take a long time to to happen like and it was by just not having anything other than building a strong foundation in recovery um and i'm thankful that i did that that i that that six months was um dedicated to that in my life it's something that is it's a lot of people don't get get that opportunity yeah you know and or or see life that way that that's essential you know i didn't um but i started to just become comfortable in in recovery and in healing and in personal growth and and you know seeking those things out um and and just learning learning myself learning me you know how i'm seen in the world you know and and being open to feedback you know um having that vulnerability um because that allowed me to become my my biggest champion and cheerleader and to back me and realize that i i got me for the first time feeling that like i i i can hold space for me and um and not lose myself in supporting others um something that has happened in the for me in the past is you know my um by by showing up for others i and and neglecting myself um it's really taken from me you know and there wasn't much left for others like and i reached a place where i was pouring from an empty cup you know just completely depleted so um By that, taking that time to pour into myself and heal, it provided a runway for me where I was able to get some momentum in my recovery and start to see some positive things happening. It was like a ripple, you know, just little by little, step by step, seed by seed, planting and planting and watering and having that patience and trusting in the process.
Speaker 4Yeah. And to your point earlier, you mentioned the gratification thing. It's like, if you can do that long enough and it's different for everybody, right? People, how long does that take to start, you know, see, seeing the rewards of your recovery or the promises or whatever. If you can stay around long enough where you start to get a few of those things back. The momentum builds and then it's just trust the process. I love that, you know, you're writing that down to next to everything. If I am all of these things and then I trust the process, it'll work out. Not, not in my time and not the way I want it to, but I'm going to get everything I need. That's it. You know, honesty, humility, and then, well, this doesn't feel good right now. This, like, I've been honest in for three days in a row now and I've lost my job or I, you know what I mean? But it's like, dude, just trust the, there's a, something else is coming. That's it. You know, trust the process. Right. One, one window closes, another door opens or whatever that, that, that phrase is, that saying. I love it though. Um, I know that community is a big part in your recovery today and connection with fellowship of other people. This one comes up a lot. Boredom in recovery, right? How do you deal with fun? Like, how do you have fun? That's, I think that's, I think since I've been on social media and being out loud, recovering aloud, I'm going to plug the old podcast. But it's true. Like, since I've been talking about this and getting feedback from others, that seems to be number one, every single time. I relapse because I'm bored. I was taught by my therapist that boredom is fear and fear is, this is my life now. Right? So how do you have fun in recovery? How did you combat that, that boredom and community?
Speaker 5Yeah, that's a really good question. And, um, that was probably one of the things that held me back from sobriety for a long time was like, it looked from my perspective, that was boredom. It was boring, you know, because for me, that excitement and dopamine came from using substances. So I developed a new baseline of finding joy in simple things. Yeah. Um, so what would bring pleasure in the past may have been really extreme. And now it became by being present, something simple, like the wings of a butterfly, a blue sky. You know, a bee on roses. I started to take and notice really simple things that were small and present, you know, like, um, I bought a succulent and like it fell off and it was just this perfect bud of a plant and it like just looked beautiful. And I would have discarded that moment in the past of noticing. What became fun, um, was having presence, like noticing moments in life and taking joy in seeing other people's joy. Yeah. Right. Um, so yeah. Also, uh, I, I started to explore different hobbies, you know, I started to. Try things that had gone as, you know, something I'd like to do for one day. Those one days stopped being one day and started being today. Right. Um, I started, you know, getting into art, exploring art, you know, and, um, journaling, you know, writing out what was important, what I were goals, what were just like. I was like documenting my life that journaling was also a, a, a routine that, and a ritual that really helped to provide some consistency. And it was a reference point as well. So I could look back and be like, oh yeah, this has happened at this point. And this is what, you know, this was the win from then. And, or this is what you need to follow up on that you was, it was a goal that still has gone unmet. And because every time I've done something, I've done it. Everything was up my head before. And so now to get some of my head out of my head and into, you know, the, the, the, my words and my voice to come, my pen to write my thoughts to expand and explore my creativity. Like fun became being present in my life. That became fun. Um, and doing things with other people that like. In sobriety, like having a beach party, you know, for the, like, that was something that I thought would be difficult. You know, like once the warm weather comes, like, how am I going to have fun? Yeah. Like, you know, summertime like was, but there was Oregon, like gatherings. I went to that in, in sobriety with people that were in recovery and we had a blast. I had more, I had so much more fun than I ever did in the past. Like that was actually fun. And I didn't, it didn't come with any type of shame or regret or hangover, hangover, or just forgetting details. Like, so being able to document my own life and showing up in my life was fun.
Speaker 4Yeah. I, I, yeah, you said exactly what I always try to preach and it's, it's not sexy, right? It doesn't sound sexy, but it's so true is your idea of fun will change. It's really that simple. You know, when you. When you come in, it just, it just, your, your baseline, you said it so nicely, your baseline changes your idea of fun. And yeah, I mean, I living in Toronto can be stressful at times with the amount of people and congestion and lack of space, but in the summer, there's so much to do. And, and my wife was a big part of a proponent of showing me that going to the islands, uh, going to the beaches, there's lots of beaches. Yeah. It's like, I didn't, I didn't know any of that. It's like, I didn't know any of this stuff existed because I was stuck on the patio drinking. And that was my idea of fun. Right. Was being boxed in by a four walls. Right. You know, I didn't do anything that I worth talking about. You know what I mean? I do. Yeah. Right. Like even in the winter too, we go snowboarding now. It's like, I, that wasn't, I didn't even want to get out of bed to do that before. Right. So it's beautiful. I mean, there's, we are not a glum lot. No. And find your people, find your community. You can't do this thing alone. You gotta, you gotta do it. With other, that's the other thing too. When you see other people sober, having fun, it really adds a level of comfort too.
Speaker 5Yes. Yeah, that's true. Because I, I would see that on people's faces that had, you know, 13 years of sobriety, they're just glowing and there, there's just this peace and joy and contentment and, and presence. And you can see their life. That's the best example. That's the best sort of. Um, sort of verification that this works is the lived experiences of people doing it and the example that they set out. So it was seeing other people and how their lives have benefited and the life that they're living, um, the growth that they've gone through that, that's what helped to encourage me to be consistent in it. It's a phase where you, your, your life isn't looking like that. Yeah. Right. But just knowing that it's the possibility that it could, but I know that it won't look like that if I do some other things in my life, if I make poor decisions, if I'm using, if I'm like disconnecting and detaching from my reality and my, yeah, escaping. Um, and just because it was just existing. I wasn't really living. I was just existing, you know? Um, and I was maybe present physically, but I was really in a different space in my head.
Speaker 4Yeah. And to your point, either in the past or the future, uh, for me, it was like, uh, actually today I'd say I live a lot too much in the future, but in active addiction, there's a lot of living in the past too, right? Yeah. There's a lot of future, but there's also a lot of, why did I do that? You know, I'm, I'm going to just use and make this all go away, man. So well said. Um, let's end with this. I got a lot out today. I appreciate it, man. Thanks for coming down. But if you could say something to your early recovery self, what do you think you would say?
Speaker 5You're doing great. Um, it will keep getting better. Be consistent and be kind to yourself. Be really kind and, and have grace for yourself because you've come through a lot. You've done an amazing and you survived. You're still here and it will be better.
Speaker 4Thanks, Jamie. Appreciate you, man.
Speaker 7Thank you. I appreciate you too. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe for more content. The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only. This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice, addiction treatment or therapy. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, please consult a licensed physician, addiction specialist or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.
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